Talk:Persecution of Uyghurs in China

(Redirected from Talk:Uyghur genocide)
Latest comment: 2 days ago by MarkH21 in topic Genocide
Former good article nomineePersecution of Uyghurs in China was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
February 1, 2020Articles for deletionKept
February 11, 2021Good article nomineeNot listed
In the newsA news item involving this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "In the news" column on September 2, 2022.
Current status: Former good article nominee


Denial of abuses

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Should Uyghur genocide denial have it's own article?, I've seen a fair amount of people on the internet who deny it's happening Consistently Heinous (talk) 21:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

The Uyghur genocide has been largely been debunked so no. It should not have its own article. 81.44.54.21 (talk) 15:58, 3 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

I’m not sure there’s enough content on the denial itself to generate a separate article, but it should definitely be included in this one. Butterdiplomat (talk) 23:26, 30 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I concur with Butterdiplomat's doubts about the volume being enough to start a new article. Personally I only know of a handful of 'apologist' news sites. Bear in mind that you will need independent WP:RS saying what person X/organisation Y/ group Z claim is/isn't happening and they would specifically need to say what kind of 'denial' (denial of mistreatment/ or acknowledging mistreatment, but arguing that it doesn't constitute 'genocide' for example). I'm aware of these pitfalls because of similar articles. Pincrete (talk) 05:26, 1 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Those are straight up tankies and I suggest you sever all contact with them 166.198.175.17 (talk) 07:27, 7 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
The photograph in the article certainly doesn't show any sign of physical abuse. All the men looked clean, well-fed, warmly clothed, and not a single scratch on any of them. 2A00:23C4:95:EA01:6067:6E2B:11FD:E666 (talk) 22:58, 5 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Proposed merge of Xinjiang internment camps into Persecution of Uyghurs in China

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The two articles talk about the same events basically. 159.91.31.13 (talk) 16:54, 3 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

You are free to suggest a merger of the articles, but I would argue that this persecution article is broader in scope than the article on the internment camps. GnocchiFan (talk) 07:38, 4 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Genocide

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It’s honestly super weird that this page isn’t called “Uyghur Genocide”. 71.114.123.162 (talk) 18:39, 17 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

It was called "Uyghur Genocide", but time seems to have debunked that. Persecution is true, however. 131.111.5.131 (talk) 20:26, 30 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
Only a relatively small number of sources and states refer to this as the “Uyghur Genocide”, which is our principal naming criterion.Pincrete (talk) 17:51, 2 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
How is not a genocide? According to the UN's definition causing bodily or mental harm to members of a group, imposing measures intended to prevent births within a group and deliberately inflicting conditions of life that bring about its destruction in whole or in part all count as genocide. Just because they aren't outright killing every single Uyhgur, doesn’t mean that it's not genocide. The word genocide is also mentioned in the article 252 times at the time of writing. Chelk (talk) 16:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
It's not for Wikipedia editors to judge the genocide criteria - only to assess whether there is academic consensus.
There are academic sources that say that the label of genocide has not been substantiated yet, for reasons such as the underlying data from Zenz being speculative (as the disclaimer in Zenz's report says) and other claims being exaggerated or unverified. The 2023 Springer Nature book here is an example, summarizing: it is obvious that a campaign that aimed at Muslim minorities and abused their most basic rights definitely took place. However, the often exaggerated numbers, the way those numbers are presented—constantly repeating that millions of Uyghurs are being still and forever detained—and, principally, the unsubstantiated accusation of genocide, have to be criticized.MarkH21talk 19:04, 25 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
I was about to make essentially the same point as MarkH. Some sources, including some academics and Govt sources say that what is happening is genocide and many others are more cautious. Ditto, some sources refer to the HR abuses by PRC as the “Uyghur Genocide”, the majority don't. We record those sources, but it isn't our job to 'endorse' or 'verify' claims made that the HR abuses are genocide, nor to endorse the 'name' of the event. You are engaging in what we would refer to as original research, ie assessing whether you think that the policies of the PRC fit the UN definition of genocide. We simply don't do that here, whatever the issue, merely record/reflect what has been produced by sources.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 October 2024

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Change "The Chinese government has engaged in a propaganda campaign to defend its actions in Xinjiang" to "The US government has engaged in a propaganda campaign to destabilize Xinjiang". Currently, there are no solid proof of Uyghur refugees migrating outside of China, especially to the United States. China has released a 144 day visa program for tourists to visit Xinjiang, as a result, many tourist have found out that Xinjiang is nothing like what the USA proclaims and is merely propaganda from western media 118.101.169.94 (talk) 17:13, 12 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. EvergreenFir (talk) 17:20, 12 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
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Hi, I can't update the page but this link is dead: https://www.commerce.gov/news/press-releases/2020/07/commerce-department-adds-eleven-chinese-entities-implicated-human

I found the current one here: https://2017-2021.commerce.gov/news/press-releases/2020/07/commerce-department-adds-eleven-chinese-entities-implicated-human.html

Can someone please update it? Dilcoe (talk) 02:20, 24 October 2024 (UTC)Reply