View source for Talk:Rottnest Island

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==earlier comment==
NPOV is required in this article, it reads with too many superlatives, and it is not a travel article!
"happy and fun experience!" is not a style to be 
encouraged. There are better ways of putting it.
[[User:JarrahTree]] 05:19, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

== Image ==

I have added an image of The Basin to replace the image an admin deleted and left a redlink behind. If anyone has a better one please feel free to replace. [[User:Nachoman-au|Nachoman-au]] 11:57, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
:Just came across this message. I can't say the image I have is any better but it's an option - here you go - it's a slightly different vantage point. Actually I'm not even sure if it is a picture of the basin or taken from the basin....
[[Image:Rottnest_Basin_and_Lighthouse_SMC_2005.jpg|300px]]
:: It is, but its dark!  Its probably the basin some time ago, the basin beach has changed a lot in the many years that I have known it.  [[User:JarrahTree]] 01:02, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

==Cottage Names==

Needs separate article, 'List of Cottage Names on Rottnest' with them in alpha order, otherwise difficult to follow while still in this state in this art.   [[User:JarrahTree]] 15:51, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

==Please Help==

The new List is [[List of features on Rottnest Island]], please check the alpha order and completeness of the lists, thank you!  [[User:JarrahTree]] 13:03, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
:I presume you mean [[List of features of Rottnest Island]], but I have to ask: is this really necessary?  Couldn't we just add the main features into the main article? -- [[User:Ianbrown|Ian]] &equiv; [[User_talk:Ianbrown|talk]] 15:02, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

==Quokka Soccer==
There may have been mistreatment of quokkas in 1986 (and other times), but I doubt the nimblest of soccer players would be capable of catching or kicking a quokka.  More likely somebody found the juxtapositioning of the two words to be quite funny, and people then assumed a poor quokka was used as a soccer ball.
[[User:136.153.2.6|136.153.2.6]] 00:12, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

::The subject is a problem. First, do you speak from experience? It is possible to apprehend quokkas in a nunber of ways, and it is also possible to mistreat them in ways that have earnt some people criminal prosecution.  The less said the better.  Second, the expression is no fantasy, it has happened.  Do not try it, its against the law. [[User:60.230.231.74|60.230.231.74]] 02:07, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

:::This is the sort of thing I think needs a citation (though I doubt any exist beyond repeated hearsay).  Kicking a quokka is one thing (they're pretty trusting and docile).  Australian black humour is another. [[User:MuJoCh|MuJoCh]] 19:28, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

*Here is a reference to cruelty in 2005 [http://www.naturebase.net/news/news.cgi?item=1137736713] but the cruelty was handling the animal not kicking it.  The person charged was 19 and offered in his defence drunkenness.  The more neutral language used in the media release is probably worth adopting.  This 2000 report from Curtin uni National Drug Research Institute [http://espace.lis.curtin.edu.au/archive/00000509/01/Rottnest_Leavers_Report199_copy.pdf] does mention the words "quokka soccer" as a quote from one student and refers to a prosecution for cruelty in 1998 to a quokka by kicking the animal.
<blockquote>
:General perception was that this year’s group was the best behaved group of leavers for quite a few years, but with the behaviour that occurred in ’98, it was fairly easy to look good by comparison. Negative expectations of the leavers were created by two major incidents in the previous year. These were a major diving accident and the student caught (and eventually prosecuted) for kicking a quokka. These events really marred the ‘98 celebrations and the bad press put pressure on the ‘99 group.
</blockquote>
:--[[User:Golden Wattle|Golden Wattle ]] <sup>[[User_talk:Golden Wattle|talk]]</sup> 21:36, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
::Cheers for that.  I should stress that I in no way dispute that there is cruelty or a term 'quokka soccer'.  I merely find a chicken/egg problem with the term and act, if you follow me (irrelevant to the article, probably).  Stories of gruesome quokka massacres have reached urban legend status.  Other exagerrations have travelled[[http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,874984,00.html]].  I'm curious to see the origins of this stuff pinned down. [[User:MuJoCh|MuJoCh]] 02:56, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

==Links==
Note commercial links are not part of the main text of article. [[User:JarrahTree]] 12:59, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

== Crayfish ==

This doesn't particularly fit here, imho.
Rottnest is not the only place for crays, amateur or commercial (it's of little significance to the commercial fishery).

Stories about crayfishing and the season should be added to [[Western rock lobster]], if attested.

The list of recreation on Rotto should certainly include diving & snorkelling, but also cycling, swimming, offshore surfing, reef fishing etc.

The channel swim seems much more significant than what Gage Roads Brewing do as a promo.

: ''The above anonymous comments were posted by'' [[user:Callophylla]], ''before I knew how to sign.'' [[User:Callophylla|Callophylla]] 08:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

== Salt Lakes ==

Removed the 'unique feature' part of the caption on the Salt Lake picture, as Rotto is hardly the only island in the world with interior salt lakes. -- [[User:Ghostreveries|Ghostreveries]] 10:58, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

== Australian places named by Dutch explorers in the 17th Century ==

The section "Australian places named by Dutch explorers in the 17th Century" seems unnecessary for an entry about a single geographical location. [[User:Peewee2007|Peewee2007]] ([[User talk:Peewee2007|talk]]) 03:03, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, probably. It is called a navigation box; it allows you to navigate between allegedly related articles. They are all the rage ATM. :-( [[User talk:Hesperian|Hesperian]] 03:12, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

==new comment==
The Aboriginal Prison entry is incomplete and misleading.

I propose it be replaced with the following:

From 1838 to 1931, Rottnest Island was an Aboriginal prison for 3700 men and boys from all parts of Western Australia. At least 370 Aboriginal prisoners are buried in unmarked graves next to The Quod in the former Tentland tourist campsite. Five Aboriginal men were hanged in the Quod courtyard. Hundreds more died of disease, malnutrition and prison beatings in tiny overcrowded stone cells now used for premium-priced tourist accommodation. Most of the island's historic Settlement - including Government House (Hotel Rottnest), the Church, Salt Store, Museum & Gift Shop, original waterfront cottages and The Quod itself - was built by forced Aboriginal prison labour working under extremely harsh conditions. See also [http://www.wadjemup.blogspot.com Wadjemup]; Neville Green & Susan Moon "Far From Home - Aboriginal Prisoners of Rottnest Island", University of Western Australia {{ISBN|1-875560-92-0}}.

{{tlx|editprotected}}
[[User:Williewagtail|Williewagtail]] ([[User talk:Williewagtail|talk]]) 05:55, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
:[[File:Padlock-bronze-slash2.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''[[Wikipedia:GOLDLOCK|Not done]]:''' {{Tlx|edit protected}} is not required for edits to  unprotected pages, or pending changes protected pages.<!-- Template:EP --> Please make the edit yourself. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 09:33, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

== John Pilger ==

A recent (2013) John Pilger article supports that above suggestion.  In fact, his writing suggests the situation was if anything worse than noted above:

[http://johnpilger.com/articles/new-john-pilger-film-utopia-to-be-broadcast-on-itv-and-released-worldwide John Pilger article]

''What was done was the torture, humiliation and murder of the First Australians. Wrenched from their communities in an insidious genocide that divided and emasculated the indigenous nations, shackled men and boys as young as eight endured the perilous nine-hour journey in an open longboat. Cold, sick and terrified prisoners were jammed into a windowless "holding cell", like an oversized kennel. Today, an historical plaque refers to it as The Boathouse. The suppression is breathtaking.''

''In the prison known as The Quod, as many as 167 Aboriginal prisoners were locked in 28 tiny cells. This lasted well into the twentieth century. I booked a room there. The prison is now called Rottnest Lodge. It has a spa and there are double bunks for children: family fun. Noel Nannup stood in the centre of the room and described its echoes of terrible suffering. The window looked out on where a gallows had stood, where tourists now sunbathed. None had a clue. A "country club" overlooks a mass grave. A psychopath who ran the Quod was Henry Vincent, who liked to whip prisoners and murdered two of them, an inquiry was told. Today, Vincent is venerated as a "pioneer" and tourists are encouraged to follow the "Vincent Way Heritage Trail". In the Governor's Bar, the annual Henry Vincent Golf Trophy is displayed. No one there had a clue.''  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/62.232.250.50|62.232.250.50]] ([[User talk:62.232.250.50|talk]]) 17:35, 23 May 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Pilger is more of a polemicist than a journalist and is certainly not a "neutral historian".  The Aboriginal Prison part of the Island's history is very notable and needs to be properly presented (albeit not in some propagandist manner), we don't need Pilger's say so to know that!    <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/203.161.78.193|203.161.78.193]] ([[User talk:203.161.78.193|talk]]) 02:10, 15 January 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Relationship to Perth Tourism ==

Trips out to Rottnest Island (don't let the name put you off, its quite friendly place as a side note) is a MUST as this is what a lot of people do when they come to Perth so I think that fact should be included in the article. Also Rottnest Island is one of the most isolated inhabited islands in the world I think that should be in the article also hehehehe [[Special:Contributions/118.209.46.14|118.209.46.14]] ([[User talk:118.209.46.14|talk]]) 20:01, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
:How is it isolated?  Fremantle is 18km away.  [[Tristan da Cunha]] in the South Atlantic Ocean, is 2,816 km from South Africa. Refer [[Extreme_points_of_Earth#Remoteness]].  &ndash;[[User talk:Moondyne|Moondyne]] 00:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
::Ofc Freo' is 18km away, why would I say that Perth tourists have a trip out to Rottnest? Duh!! [[Special:Contributions/118.209.3.187|118.209.3.187]] ([[User talk:118.209.3.187|talk]]) 09:24, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

== Winnit Club ==

Is the Winnit Club a significant/notable organisation on the Island? [[User:Dodger67|Roger (Dodger67)]] ([[User talk:Dodger67|talk]]) 07:06, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

== Quokka viral internet fame ==

Re: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rottnest_Island&diff=736102447&oldid=735997385 this edit] - The cited article does not mention "viral", "internet", "fame" or anything related. Even if the quokkas have found such fame and there was a reliable reference saying so, it still does not belong in the lead section of an article about the ''island''. [[User:Mitch Ames|Mitch Ames]] ([[User talk:Mitch Ames|talk]]) 07:07, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

:Agree, it is in fact properly covered in the [[Quokka]] article. [[User:Dodger67|Roger (Dodger67)]] ([[User talk:Dodger67|talk]]) 07:10, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

:More edits [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rottnest_Island&diff=736452314&oldid=736401362][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rottnest_Island&diff=736452870&oldid=736452314] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rottnest_Island&diff=736515818&oldid=736452870 reversion] (by {{U|Moondyne}}, who beat me to it).
:I'm happy to concede that the "quokka selfie" is a real internet meme, but it is still not appropriate for the [[MOS:LEAD|lead section]] of the [[Rottnest Island]] article. As {{U|Dodger67}} points out, it is covered quite well in [[Quokka#"Quokka selfie" viral sensation]], which is the appropriate place for it. [[User:Mitch Ames|Mitch Ames]] ([[User talk:Mitch Ames|talk]]) 02:12, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

::Concur with Moondyne, Rodger Dodger and Ames the mitch, - this is an online encyclopedia about the island, not internet memes, and the specific article is that about quokkas - as to ''real internet meme'' it is doubtful that they are ever notable in wikipedia notability terms, let alone the capacity of anyone to be able to ascertain happiness ratings of marsupials [[User:JarrahTree|JarrahTree]] 02:24, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Quokkas and Rottnest were around long before internet memes were thought of.  Such stuff is barely ok on the Quokka article but definitely not here, esp. in the lead. [[User:Moondyne|Moondyne]] ([[User talk:Moondyne|talk]]) 06:54, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 9 external links on [[Rottnest Island]]. Please take a moment to review [[special:diff/814554047|my edit]]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
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== Dates ==

In the section 'Aboriginal Prison' there is an ambiguity. Herre is the text:

"A quadrangular building was constructed in 1863–1864 and generally referred to as "the Quod"; it was used until 2018 for tourist accommodation.[20] There were about twenty prisoners there in 1844; by 1880, there were 170. Vincent retired in 1867 after complaints regarding cruelty to prisoners; he was replaced by William Jackson. In the early 1880s, an influenza epidemic struck, killing about sixty inmates."

Herein lies the ambiguity: were there 20 prisoners in general on Rottnest in 1844? Or were there 20 prisoners in the quadrangular building in 18SIXTY-four. ie is the date given correct?

If the former might I suggest a clarification, to read: "In 1844 there about twenty prisoners on Rottnest in total. By 1880, this had swelled to 170." 

If the latter, then a change to "There were about twenty prisoners housed in the quadrangular building in 1864" would be in order.
[[User:Koryushka|Koryushka]] ([[User talk:Koryushka|talk]]) 02:46, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

== Wadjemup or t Eylandt 't Rottenest ==

{{ping|Simulaun}} regarding these edits: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rottnest_Island&diff=1080743042&oldid=1079562417][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rottnest_Island&diff=1080745562&oldid=1080743042][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rottnest_Island&diff=1080757351&oldid=1080745562] ...

The name ''Wadjemup'' is in use today [https://www.dlgsc.wa.gov.au/aboriginal-history/reconciliation-and-history-projects/wadjemup-the-land-beyond-the-shore][https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/nitv-news/article/2020/06/02/dark-history-wadjemup-finally-be-acknowledged][https://researchrepository.murdoch.edu.au/id/eprint/25193/][https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-25/rottnest-island-black-prison-to-white-playground/7962940] to refer to the island , whereas ''t Eylandt 't Rottenest'' is not used (other being mentioned as the name given by de Vlamingh). Thus the former (a "significant alternative name") ought to be listed as a synonym in the lead, per [[MOS:BOLDALTNAMES]], whereas the latter need not.


{{ping|Mitch_Ames}} Agreed - it makes much more sense to use Wadjemup as the significant alternative name. It is used in many contexts as the alternative name for Rottnest. http://inherit.stateheritage.wa.gov.au/Public/Inventory/PrintSingleRecord/4c2a567b-d2ca-40f4-8687-8f5c22cfcf6d

't Eylandt 't Rottenest' is the first name by which the island became known to the world. It was used extensively throughout the world until it was culturally appropriated approximately a century later by the British. The name 't Eylandt 't Rottenest' is, however, of great relevance and historical interest as it reflects the pioneering explorations of Nieuw Holland (renamed 'Western Australia' by the British) by mariners from the Netherlands. The name 't Eylandt 't Rottenest', therefore, warrants being prominently displayed in the lead as, in addition to being the actual/non-Anglicized name of the island, it provides Wiki users with highly relevant insight and broad historical context regarding the exploration and mapping of Australia's entire west coast.[[User:Simulaun|Simulaun]] ([[User talk:Simulaun|talk]]) 01:35, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

*Fully support the inclusion of the indigenous name, Wadjemup, as it has now been included in most official recognitions of Rottnest Island.[[User:Dan arndt|Dan arndt]] ([[User talk:Dan arndt|talk]]) 01:40, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

:The historical context of 't Eylandt 't Rottenest' is why it is mentioned in the intro and the history section, but there is no indication that it is used at all as the actual name of the island and is still currently relevant. Wadjemup is in current use as the significant alternative name of Rottnest Island and so warrants inclusion as the synonym in the lead. [[User:The Logical Positivist|The Logical Positivist]] ([[User talk:The Logical Positivist|talk]]) 02:14, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

* Support use of indigenous name as alternative. [[User:Conlinp|Conlinp]] ([[User talk:Conlinp|talk]]) 04:12, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

{{ping|Simulaun}} re [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rottnest_Island&diff=1080743042&oldid=1079562417][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rottnest_Island&diff=1080757351&oldid=1080745562][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rottnest_Island&diff=1082300588&oldid=1081759797][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rottnest_Island&diff=1082402346&oldid=1082310372] please stop trying to cram so much into the lead sentence, especially when it's factually wrong (for details see my edit summaries when I remove it). Per [[MOS:LEADCLUTTER]], it's just too much. The historical information is in covered appropriately in another paragraph of the lead section and the article. [[User:Mitch Ames|Mitch Ames]] ([[User talk:Mitch Ames|talk]]) 12:41, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

== First European people ==

{{ping|Simulaun}}, re [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rottnest_Island&diff=1082603292&oldid=1082489932][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rottnest_Island&diff=next&oldid=1082620910][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rottnest_Island&diff=next&oldid=1082954399] - the [https://samwilson.id.au/P12054 reference] clearly says "European", not "people" (including those who were not European). Please don't remove "European" from the article unless you can provide a reference that says no non-Europeans landed before them. [[User:Mitch Ames|Mitch Ames]] ([[User talk:Mitch Ames|talk]]) 06:55, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

== LGA removed ==

"[[City of Cockburn]]<ref>{{Heritage Council of Western Australia|name=Rottnest Island|id=03650|access-date=2022-05-01}}</ref><ref>{{cite|url=https://www.cockburn.wa.gov.au/getattachment/74d8f6a1-0efe-47d1-84fd-13dba5054e91/attachment.aspx|title=Agenda - Ordinary Council Meeting|date=27 July 1999|access-date=2022-05-01|publisher=[[City of Cockburn]]|page=35-36}}</ref>"

I removed this from the Info box, the information refers to July 1999 minutes from a City of Cockburn meeting wanting to make a claim to of holding a position on the Rottnest Island Authourity because of a reference from the Heritage Council also in 1999, and referring to WAEC. Checking Current City of Cockburn records [https://www.cockburn.wa.gov.au/City-and-Council/About-Cockburn/Our-People-and-Suburbs none of the wards] indicate Rottnest as part of the Cities voters, [https://www.cockburn.wa.gov.au/getattachment/69c646cf-1509-486c-9aaf-6b4a12663bba/ECM_9507420_v2_City-of-Cockburn-Wards-Map-pdf.aspx the CoC map shows] the City's boundary again it doesnt indicate Rottnest.  Checking the [https://www.legislation.wa.gov.au/legislation/prod/filestore.nsf/FileURL/mrdoc_29757.pdf/$FILE/Rottnest%20Island%20Authority%20Act%201987%20-%20%5B03-c0-02%5D.pdf?OpenElement Rottnest Island Authority Act 1987] as revised in 2017 there is no mention of the City of Cockburn and there are no representatives on the [https://ria.wa.gov.au/about-us/about-rottnest-island-authority/board-members Authorities Board]. 
The is no reason to support the claim of it being part of City of Cockburn. [[User:Gnangarra|Gnan]][[User_talk:Gnangarra|garra]] 11:12, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
: I would consider inHerit to be a reliable source. But also
:* https://www.cockburn.wa.gov.au/City-and-Council/Events-and-News/News-From-The-City/What-made-the-news-in-Cockburn-%E2%80%93-22-29-April-2022 says "for the purposes of the Commonwealth Electoral Division of Fremantle, Rottnest Island is considered a suburb of the City of Cockburn"
:* https://www.mycouncil.wa.gov.au/Council/ViewCouncil/27 appears to show Rottnest as part of Cockburn.
:* Landgate https://map-viewer-plus.app.landgate.wa.gov.au/index.html (Find by  Local Govt, Name=Cockburn, City of) includes Rottnest in the City of Cockburn  
: [[User:Mitch Ames|Mitch Ames]] ([[User talk:Mitch Ames|talk]]) 12:14, 1 May 2022 (UTC)