User talk:Leahtwosaints

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Hello, Leahtwosaints! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! --HughCharlesParker (talk - contribs) 11:02, 24 July 2007 (UTC) Getting started Wikipedia tutorial • The five pillars of Wikipedia • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images Getting help Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Reliable sources • Citing sources What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community Portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Pages needing attention • Peer review Miscellaneous User name • User pages • Talk pages Clean up: General - Spam - Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Image advice for The Byrds article

Hi Leahtwosaints! I'm not sure if you'll remember me or not, but we exchanged words during the first half of last year about a range of subjects. I'm approaching you now because I see from your user page that you do a lot of adding of pictures to music articles. You're obviously pretty well versed in WP image copyright policy and procedure...so I'd like to ask your opinion on something.

I'm currently working hard to get The Byrds article ready for a GA nomination and I'd really like to add more images to the article. I've already added a few images myself but I've found an online Sony Records promo gallery of Byrds photographs (see here) and wondered if it might be possible to use any of these images in the Byrds Wiki article? I notice that the image currently being used in the article's infobox is a similar promo image, as outlined in the Wikipedia fair-use rational for it...so perhaps this would be possible?

In particular, I'd like to use this image in the article's "Gram Parsons era" sub-section, to illustrate the band's line-up during their country-rock phase (which is somewhat different to the earlier line-up represented in the infobox). Anyway, I guess I'm just looking for some advice on how best to get more Byrds-related images into the article. Many thanks in advance for your help. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 09:16, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for your reply! That's too bad about the photographs on the Sony website that I linked to. They are obviously put there for promotional use in print publications and the like, so it seems strange that there would be any issue with using them on Wikipedia. But I bow to your superior knowledge of these things. As for using Flickr, I'm glad you brought that up because, actually, I'd sort of preempted you and had a look on there myself. There are definitely a couple of photos that I found that could be used, if only the owner's would give up their copyright and use a Wikipedia Creative Commons license instead.

The first picture I found (see here) would work really well in the "Folk rock (1965-1966)" sub-section. It was taken by the Flickr uploader themselves, back in 1965, so perhaps it might be worth approaching them to see whether they would be prepared to release the photograph for use on Wikipedia? Would you mind doing this for me? I would do it myself but its obvious that you have much more experience in this area than I do. However, one thing I would say is that ideally, I'd like to crop that photo slightly (at the top, and also to get rid of the frame) and try to repair some of the "chipping" present on it. What do you think our chances of persuading the owner to let us edit their photo would be? :-)

There's also another picture here that I've found on Flickr, which would be good for The Byrds article. In addition, looking at The Beatles article, I notice that the editors there have successfully used images from films and TV broadcasts. Is this perhaps something that we could do on The Byrds article too? --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 09:50, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

That's great that you've already got a somewhat positive response from the owner of one of those two Byrds photos that I spotted on Flickr. It would be great to be able to use them both in the article. Speaking of which, what did you think of my earlier mention of being allowed to crop and repair this photo? Do you think that this might be possible?

I've also found another photo that might be useful here...it's a photo of a Rickenbacker 360 12-string guitar that's very similar to the one played by Byrds guitarist Roger McGuinn in the mid-1960s. The article makes numerous mentions of the Rickenbacker 12-string, so it might be nice to have an illustration of one. I'm happy to approach this user myself regarding use on Wikipedia, but I'm wondering if you could give me a few tips on how best to convince the photograph's owner to change their copyright to a Creative Commons license?

As for album covers and the like, I think we're fine for those, thanks. To be honest, I don't believe any of The Byrds' album covers are famous enough to warrant an illustration in the main Byrds article and of course, they're all viewable on the band's individual album articles anyway. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 13:05, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

You are free to use the photo of the Rickenbacker 360/12 if you like ( my photo and my guitar!) However you might want to be aware that McGuinn was more famous for using a 370/12 which is the 3 pickup version. Thanks. 68.167.223.30 (talk) 21:21, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks for kindly offering the use of your photo in The Byrds article. Yes, you're absolutely right that Roger McGuinn is more famous for playing a 370 model, but it was a 360 that he originally bought in 1964, after seeing A Hard days Night. He used that 360 on the "Mr. Tambourine Man" single and the album of the same name, but it was stolen during The Byrds' August 1965 English tour. That was when he transitioned to playing the 370 12-string. I would probably make a note of this fact in the picture caption. Thank you once again for letting us use your photograph on Wikipedia. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 00:33, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the Flickr info chart Leahtwosaints and your e-mail...both are very, very helpful. As for whether or not this photo belongs to the Flickr user Jan Tonnesen, I was flicking through a recent book on The Byrds yesterday (it was published in 2008) and I came across the very same photograph! When I flipped to the back of the book to check the photo credits, sure enough, it was attributed Jan Tonnesen. Since that photo was originally uploaded to Flickr in Feburary 2007, I can only assume that the book's author also found it on Flickr and approached the owner himself, in much the same way we are. I realise that this doesn't necessarily prove conclusively that it is the property of Tonnesen, but I'm sure the book's publishers would've wanted to be sure about this too, so it certainly makes it very likely that everything is OK and above board. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 08:24, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Backlog of questions

I've introduced myself to Kirk Stauffer as requested and left a "hello" message on his talk page. With regards to the bot that automatically archives talk pages, I'm sure that I could figure it out for you without too much trouble. If you're OK with allowing me to edit your talk page, I'll get this set up for you as soon as I can. Just let me know.

With regard to articles featured on DYK, yes, I've been involved with a few of these. The DYK process and criteria are fairly strict though. Firstly, only brand new articles, no older than 5 days, or articles that have been expanded fivefold in the last 5 days are eligible. The assessors are really hot on these criteria (in my limited experience). In addition, brand new articles have to be at least 1,500 characters long (not including references, infoboxes, lists or tables etc, etc) and must be really well sourced with plenty of inline citations.

The key thing to remember is that DYK isn't meant to be a general trivia section, it's meant to be a showcase for new Wikipedia articles (as the tag line on the main page says; "From Wikipedia's newest articles:"). If you have articles that meet these criterea and you want to nominate them for DYK, just let me know and I'll be happy to walk you through the nomination process. :-) --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 13:27, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Hello, Leahtwosaints. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Photo credits question

Hi Leahtwosaints, I have been in contact with someone who has some nice photos of notable people, but who is reluctant to release them under a free license as he fears he will not receive photo credit in the caption or article text. I know when you add images you often add such credits (thanks again for finding so many musician images and uploading them). My basic question is, do you have any advice on doing that? Do such edits stick or do the credits get removed? I thought of asking at the Village Pump, but figured you might be a better person to ask. Hope all is well, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 04:06, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the detailed reply. The person is Roger Ebert, who is a registered user here and has made some edits, including uploading some photos (one of himself with Peter O'Toole and Jason Patric, two of Russ Meyer). On Ebert's facebook page he has some great photos of celecbrities that he (Ebert) has taken over the years - not sure if anyone can see this or not, but this is one of Studs Terkel and Mike Royko. It is much better than the pic of Studs Terkel and there is no free image of Mike Royko. Ebert has lots of great candid shots like this. So I emailed him and said how I appreciated his work and the photos he had already uploaded and would he consider adding a free license to his Facebook photos for their use on Wikipedia. THEN HE WROTE BACK (sorry - I got pretty excited). Anyway he said that he would freely license them if he thought he'd get a photo credit. I asked if he meant attribution in the caption or article text and he said yep. So I knew you had done such attributions and thought I would ask what your experience has been - I know they are discouraged, but I might make an exception here and try it with his pics already on Wikipedia just to see what happens. Thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 04:01, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

PS I like the attribution in the file title idea and the category idea. I don't want to pester him, so I think I will try attribution and making categories and see how it works, then write him one last time. Thanks again, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 04:07, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

User page

Still needs some tweaks, but what do you think of User:Leahtwosaints/test page1? Catfish Jim & the soapdish 16:34, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Mick Taylor

Hi Leahtwosaints, I changed your mention of Mick Taylor in connection with Dylan's "Blind Willie McTell", because I have his debut album, Mick Taylor, and it doesn't contain this song. I looked on iTunes which says that Taylor released a live album, Live In Leverkusen, in 2010, which contains his recording of McTell. Let me know if you think I'm mistaken. best Mick gold (talk) 15:29, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi Leah, very nice to meet you too. The Bob Dylan Encyclopedia by Michael Gray has an entry on Taylor, noting he recorded "McTell" on his 2000 album, A Stone's Throw. Taylor also played on Dylan's 1984 Real Live album. The version of "McTell" which Dylan released on his Bootleg Series of course features Mark Knopfler on guitar. Mick gold (talk) 16:33, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

David Crosby pics

Wow! Great work on the Crosby pics! Yes, you're right, 1976 is after The Byrds period but I'm thinking that I'll use one of these two photos (haven't decided which yet) in the "Reunions (1972-1973; 1988-1991) section, which I'm about to start expanding over the next day or so. Those pics are only 3 years ater the 1973 reunion and Crosby looks almost exactly the same. So, once again, great work! I will defibitely be using one of those photographs in The Byrds article. As for other photos, I would still love to get that Flickr image of the Rickenbacker guitar here and the owner has commented above that he's willing to let us use it. Is it possible you could approach him on Flickr and negotiate a creative commons license? Also, any news on this photo yet? --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 18:47, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I will certainly e-mail you with the link when I use one of those Crosby pics on The Byrds article...expect this to be sometime later this week. As for the guitar, I have checked wiki-commons but there isn't a picture of that exact model, in that precise "natural wood" finish, like McGuinn used. Also, most of the Rickenbacker pics on wiki-commons are portrait shots, whereas I like that one because it's landscape and will therefore better fit into the place I have in mind for it within the article. Regarding McGuinn, yes, a picture of him would be good, but even more desirable would be a photo of Gram Parsons but I'd be surprised if you'll be able to source one.

That's a pity about the Byrds group shot that we wanted, but I must confess, I thought that the fact the owner had licensed it for books in the past might cause us some problems. Nevermind. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 19:05, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Re: More questions

Hi, Leah. For starters, don't worry about asking too many questions, I'm always willing to respond with anything I know. As for where to find other editors with like interests, I assume you're acquainted with Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians and Wikipedia:WikiProject Music and their associated talk pages. Some artists have dedicated projects, such as Wikipedia talk:WikiProject The Beatles, Wikipedia:WikiProject The Rolling Stones, etc; you can see the full list at Category:WikiProject Music groups. A couple of experienced, reasonable music editors I've dealt with are User:Gareth E Kegg, who mostly works on traditional standards artists, and User:Melicans, who works mostly on U2-related topics. There are no doubt others, not to mention a bunch who are experienced but not always reasonable! Besides Tvoz, I think a great editor on Beatles and related articles with a real sense of humor (a WP rarity and needed with all their "the" vs "The" type debates) is User:Andreasegde. As for User:KirkStauffer, I see an admin with images experience has already contacted him. Wasted Time R (talk) 19:30, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Photo galleries

Can you direct me to where WP:MOS opposes photo galleries, please? — O'Dea 17:58, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

It would be nice to see a name to whom I am answering. If you are a new user on Wikipedia, please say so, and I can assist you in learning some fundamentals -including signing your name, using four tildes (these: ~~) only four of them will sign your name. Offhand, I forget a more "official answer" to the "Gallery" question- I assume it means my rearrangement of the Gary Moore article? But here's one example from the Village Pump: [1] Hopefully, it will begin to explain what became consensus and then policy on the en.Wikipedia. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 02:37, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I would prefer a straight answer instead of a lecture. I have been editing Wikipedia since 2004 and I always sign Talk pages with four tildes (~~~~), as I did when I asked you my question. I searched WP:MOS about photo galleries and found no policy discouraging their creation, as you claimed it did. I merely sought guidance from you so I could read about it. Wikipedia offers help on as many as four different ways to make galleries, using {{Gallery}}, {{Image gallery}}, <gallery>, and the table format method, {|...|}, so it would be a contradiction if it also "opposes photo galleries" as you stated. — O'Dea 08:48, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I am certain I have seen this. My apologies for not finding the particular file immediateley and disappointing you!? I did not mean to be patronizing when I mentioned about signing your notes, but in both of your posts here, I attempt to respond to you and get only a File name to an image of a statue; thus I have no idea who you are at all. Believe me, there was a time when I wished for galleries and the like; I have uploaded and placed nearly 875 or so photographs-- more than any other Wikipedian for photographs of musicians to Wikimedia Commons amd the en.Wikipedia, pt.Wikipedia, etc., with the exception of User:Magnus Manske, who developed bots to find and import photos, whilst I email each photographer directly, and make every change most often individually by hand. You can check out some of them; there's a link on my User page here above a tiny gallery.--Leahtwosaints (talk) 10:12, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Fame (of a sort)

The picture you uploaded of Esperanza Spalding is used in a msnbc.com article here. Enjoy this part of your 15 minutes of fame! Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 19:47, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

I like "anyone can edit" in theory, but agree that BLP vandalism makes it harder to like in practice. Perhaps flagged revisions for BLPs are the way to go. I am an admin and if you ever run across an article under attack, please let me know and I can (semi)protect it (which usually works). I am still mulling over what to do with the Ebert photos. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 15:17, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I gave you rollback rights, and would be glad to help whenever you find vandalism or things that need admin intervention. Thank you for your kind words.

I emailed Mr. Ebert intiially and noted how the images he had already uploaded here were being used. I then said how I liked the images he was posting on Facebook and asked if he would consider licensing any of them for use here (mentioning the Terkel / Royko image in particlular). I explained about free licenses and he replied very concisely saying that he would if he thought he would get a photo credit. I asked to make sure he meant "acknowledgment in either the caption or in the article (similar to credit for a photo in a newspaper)" and he replied very briefly that that was what he meant. I have not emailed back as I had a plan of sorts I wanted to try first.

My idea was to do several things: 1) ask a Commons admin about changing the titles of the images which Mr. Ebert already uploaded to include "by Roger Ebert" at the end of the file name; 2) make a category on Commons for all of Mr. Ebert's photos; 3) Update the file descriptions to make sure they clearly identify Roger Ebert as the creator and ask that he be credited in the photo caption or article the photo is used in; and 4) last off add "Photo by Roger Ebert" or something similar to captions where his images are used on the English Wikipedia. I figured I could do the last three no matter what, but wanted to ask a Commons admin about the first idea before doing the rest. I also was not sure about what to do on other language Wikipedias using his photos.

After doing as much of this as possible, and waiting a few weeks to see how the attributions stayed in the articles using his photos, I was then going to email him one last time and let him know what had been done and ask if that met his criteria. He also has a Flickr account, and I thought I could also suggest uploading lower resolution versions of the photos he wanted to license on Flickr. I know Facebook recently changed how it displayed user photos and Mr. Ebert complained that now anyone could steal his photos there now. What do you think of this as a plan? Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 02:05, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Byrds photos uploaded!

Wow! Thanks for that Leahtwosaints! It's great to have those 1972 vintage Byrds pics at our disposal. I've used Dan Volonnino's Clarence White/Roger McGuinn shot in the main Byrds' article because it's the one that I most wanted and besides, I see that you've used the McGuinn one in the main Roger McGuinn article. I'm thinking that the third one (here) could be used for the Skip Battin page, since that's Battin on the far right of the picture, playing bass. Not sure though...what do you think? As previously noted above, I will also be using one of those David Gans' Crosby pics in The Byrds article, for the "Reunions (1972-1973; 1988-1991)" section. I plan to expand this section very soon and when I do, I will add one of those Crosby pictures. Thanks again for all your hard work in securing those photos; it's great to be able to use them on Wikipedia. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 03:22, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi! I just wanted to let you know that I've finally got around to expanding the "Reunions" sub-section of The Byrds article and I've also added the B&W David Gans' photo of David Crosby that you managed to clear. I will also crop the Clarence White/Roger McGuinn pic currently being used in "The Clarence White era" sub-section of The Byrds article and use that in the infobox of the Clarence White page, as you suggest. As for that Emmylou Harris site, yeah it looks quite good and would definitely be worth checking out if I ever get stuck for a reference.

Regarding "Wasn't Born to Follow", yes, I agree that it should have its own article and actually, that's something I've been meaning to do for a while now. I'll try to get around to creating one in the not too distant future. As for including a sound sample of the song in the main Byrds article, that's certainly a possibility but I'm not sure what it would illustrate in the article. I've already illustrated The Byrds' use of the pedal steel guitar and their growing interest in country music with the "Goin' Back" and "Time Between" samples, and I tend to only include sound files that make a specific point about the band's music, rather than just including a song because it's good. Having said that, I did add a sample of "Wasn't Born to Follow" to The Notorious Byrd Brothers article some time ago...did you see that? Its use in that article is more warranted I feel because it's being used to illustrate a particular aspect of The Byrds' music. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 22:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your compliments regarding my work on the Byrds-related articles. In answer to your question, the reason I chose to work so intensively on The Byrds was because all of the other acts that I would list in my Top 5 all-time favourites (The Beatles, Bob Dylan, R.E.M. etc, etc) had large taskforces of editors working to improve their articles. The Byrds on the other hand suffered from having pretty crappy Wikipedia articles that were in a shocking state when I first started editing them around 18 months ago. There was lots of non-NPOV and factually incorrect info in them, as well as important pieces of the band's history missing. As I'm something of an expert on the band and its history, I decided to concentrate on improving Wikipedia's Byrds-related articles.

The Notorious Byrd Brothers article does mention the conflict that covering two Goffin-King compositions on the album cased among the songwriting band members, not least because Crosby's own song "Triad" was in direct competition with "Goin' Back" for a place on the album. This is also mentioned in less detail in the main Byrds article, in the second paragraph of the "Line-up changes (1967-1968)" section.

As for things you can still do, I don't know whether or not you tried contacting the owner of this Rickenbacker guitar picture? It would be great if this guy could be persuaded to license his image under Creative Commons and allow us to use the image in The Byrds article. Many thanks! --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 11:41, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

It is I again; the guy with the Rickenbacker. I will go looking in Flickr and find the page to apply the CC license to the image and you may use it as you wish. Just check the image later today and check the license. Thnaks. 68.167.223.30 (talk) 17:39, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks for sorting out that Rickenbacker pic Leahtwosaints...and thank you too BigTown Rube for allowing us to use your picture. I'll be adding this to the "Formation (1964)" section of the main Byrds article, although I may crop it slightly top and bottom. I may also add it to the main Rickenbacker guitar article too, or perhaps the Rickenbacker 360/12 article instead. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 09:48, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Re:ORTS question

Only certain people have access to OTRS (I assume you mean the login screen here) for legal reasons- it's meant for confidential, somewhat (though obviously not completely) "official" communication. If you want to volunteer for OTRS access to help out with the backlog, you can do so here. Of course, you do not need to have OTRS access to forward emails there. Does that answer your question? J Milburn (talk) 23:12, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I think I've realised the problem; I'm not sure you realise what OTRS actually is. That's fine, it took me a while- I'm not the most technically advanced person. OTRS is just a type of software for handling emails- certain people (myself included) effectively have access to one or more of Wikimedia's "inboxes", and deal with the stuff they find there. Some of the "inboxes" are for image permissions- so, say you had gotten permission from the copyright holder for an image on another website to be released under a free license, you would forward that email to one of the Foundation's "inboxes" (in this case, perhaps the inbox for the address permissions-commons@wikimedia.org) so that we have some evidence that the image has been freely released. Other "inboxes" include various complaints, enquiries, copyright problems and so on. Has this helped? J Milburn (talk) 23:20, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Upload them with the template {{OTRS pending}} and forward the email to the relevant address- it's not so much a matter of not trusting your ability to judge the situation, it's a matter of us having some evidence to point to if anyone comes asking beyond "this person said so". Uploading images like that isn't too difficult- all it requires is the extra step of forwarding the email. I'd offer to check the emails (the "tickets") each time myself, so you don't have the wait until a volunteer deals with them, but I'm not as active on Wikipedia right now as I have been. J Milburn (talk) 23:34, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit page buttons.

No, I'm afraid I don't have the solution for that problem... sorry! I do all my citing manually. Catfish Jim & the soapdish 18:46, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi Leah, is it working again? I had some difficulties with WP in general a couple of days ago and was wondering if your issues had the same origin? Catfish Jim & the soapdish 18:24, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Archiving done! My pleasure... Catfish Jim & the soapdish 20:55, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

ArtScience museum

Hi

Thanks for spotting those!

I keep searching every now and again on flickr for Belitung shipwreck and Tang treasure, unfortunately those keep coming up as copyright reserved. I am sure now they are on display someone will eventually put some up we can use :¬)

Thanks again Chaosdruid (talk) 00:18, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Re: Video references

Regarding video references and YouTube, the policy is at WP:YOUTUBE and an essay is at WP:VIDEOLINK. There is no blanket ban against them as external links or in references, although in practice many of them flunk on copyright grounds or due to lack of provenance. I share your frustration that makes it hard to include a lot of useful information. For example, the best documentation of how a song was restructured or rearranged for a particular tour is on fan-posted YouTube videos taken from shows on that tour. However, if the artist released a VHS or DVD of that tour, then you can certainly cite that (even if you saw a portion of the video release on YouTube, posted in violation of copyright).

Regarding galleries, the policy is at WP:IG. Sometimes they are appropriate, sometimes not; it has to be judged on a case-by-case basis. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:53, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Book:The Miracles

Hi Leah, am I allowed to use this image in this book? Best, --Discographer (talk) 18:28, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Pick Withers

Pick Withers playing with Dire Straits

I cropped the image, and lightened it, but to be honest, the unaltered version looks better. Catfish Jim & the soapdish 12:52, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Doyle Bramhall II

I looked at Doyle Bramhall II and at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons, which says in part Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion.[2] I guess the question is, what is contentious? Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 12:00, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

I looked briefly at his official website and his bio and discography there support most of what was in the article (so it does not seem like most of it is contentious). I would be OK with adding back most of it, but I do not have the time to do so now. Sorry, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 14:31, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

I added a ref for his date of birth from snippet view. I will try to work on it slowly. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:55, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

About me

Oh, my dear, I don't have my own personal e-mail address, as its family-shared. Anyway, my name is Donnie and I'd love to help you out anyway I can, Leah! We'd have to communicate through our talk pages though, but we can delete (hide) anything of significant importance you want. You can help me out on images, too! Best, --Discographer (talk) 20:34, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Tervehdys!

You asked about the music sample by Rory Gallagher on Finnish Wikipedia. I'm happy to tell you that the song is called "Let Me In" from one of his best albums, Against the Grain. The following song (which is not heard) "Ain't Too Good" is also from the same album. I've got this recording from Finnish radio that lasts about half an hour, and it also includes the songs "Walk on Hot Coals", "Too Much Alcohol" and "Pistol Slaver Blues", in that order. The concert lasted about two and a half hours, so many of the songs performed are unknown to me. The concert was held in Helsinki at Kulttuuritalo (= Culture House) in the beginning of 1976, but I can't find the exact date. We have this rock magazine called Soundi, and from it I have learned that also "Out on the Western Plain" and "Comin' to My Home Town" were played. In the middle of the concert there was an acoustic session and Rory also played the harmonica. The band included Lou Martin, Rod de'Ath and Gerry McAvoy. Rory appeared three times in Finland, 1975 The Ruisrock -festival in Turku, 1976 the concert we are discussing about, and 1984 Provinssirock at Seinäjoki. Unfortunately I only visit Wikipedia once a week and I'm not expert on Rory's music, so I leave further additions to better hands. By the way, Rory gave a short interview to Finnish television, and it can be seen here. [2] Bye for now! We miss the man and his music. Jarmo Turunen (talk) 18:35, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer! I wish I could speak more languages! I do not know how to contact you in the Finnish Wikipedia, so I am answering here, right now. There is a Rory Gallagher page here, but also, a Rory Gallagher discography! Please look at it! I would love it if you create separate sound clips (like the one you put on Gallagher's article on the Finnish Wikipedia); you could use them on the en.Wikipedia, de.Wikipedia! All you would need to do is record parts of his songs. Most North Anericans do not even know who Rory was! Please write me back! --Leahtwosaints (talk) 17:05, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Re: Check this out!

Wow - that's great. I have made a category for Photos by Roger Ebert on COmmons, but have been slow to add his name to captions here. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:17, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Hope your emails with David Knopfler went well - I wound up telling Mr. Ebert what my favorite movie is (in a total fanboy move - sigh). I am in a bit of a quandary with the Ebert photos. One problem is that while it seems clear that he took File:Russ Meyer by Roger Ebert.jpg himself, he is in the other two photos he donated, so it seems unlikely he took them (unless he used a timer). So while I am fine with adding "Photo by Roger Ebert" to the first photo, I am not sure about adding that to others. In the Russ Meyer article I just put "Photo: Roger Ebert" as the credit on the second caption. Finally, the first image mentioned is in an infobox for Meyers' films and I am not sure I can add a credit there. Any ideas - or am I just being a worry wart? Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 01:59, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

David Knopfler

Hi Leah, hey that's great news about David. Also, to handle a trojan horse can mean two things - (1), handle Trojan horse (not "horace",) is in the company as of being a nasty computer virus; and, (2) being the actual handle of a metallic walking-cane like-stick which can be used to beat your computer with, especially when it has a computer virus! So, in his case, he probably used it for both reasons! (Ha-Ha!!) Ask him if he's got a new computer yet! He might want to keep this one for awhile! LOL Donnie Lee, a.k.a --Discographer (talk) 19:33, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Re: Derek Trucks

The material about his equipment being stolen has been in that same place in the article for a long time; see for example this version of the article from the end of 2008. I don't think it really has to be in the article, but I don't think the inclusion does any harm either. Wasted Time R (talk) 11:01, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

This may help

• User talk:Moxy#WAY too many Canadian biographies unattended - moving this here so you have a copy to link to - as i have told this to a few famous people and got them to upload pics'

from Moxy's talk page I contact every single photographer for permission to upload their photos to Wikimedia Commons; but we only accept two of the six Creative Commons licenses (basically saying they are the photographer and a link back to their work). The astute photographer is saying, why am I giving up commercial use, when this new Wikibook thing will garner a probable steady income for Wikipedia without them even getting credit in the photo captions. WTH am I supposed to say to people who turned down book offers-- all my early Rolling Stones and Jaco Pastorius uploads that were not intended to be used commercially when I secured permission for them. How do I answer these people? --Leahtwosaints (talk) 14:26, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

This is a hard one - because yes people sell paper back versions of Wikipedia articles - I personally would tell this people that its better to have one free image out-there they like (as in they have pic a nice faltering picture) rather then someone using a very unfaltering image-- you could give the example of Robert Goulet - we were using File:RobertGouletMay07.jpg for years - after his death someone contacted his wife (inprosuite of a better pic) and she was upset to see us using that horrible image - so she gave us permission to use File:Robert Goulet photo.jpg and/or File:Robert Goulet.jpg 15:39, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Image credits in captions

Hi Leah, please do not put photo credits in image captions, as you did at Tracy Chapman. Credits generally aren't allowed in captions, unless the photographer or artist is notable in their own right. Graham87 14:13, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I obviously didn't read your user page carefully enough ... I only read the "Articles I Do Not Start" section, thought "Ah, that sounds famaliar", then read through a few of your latest edits. Therefore I didn't learn about your prolific photo contributions, and I didn't read the disclaimer you wrote about image credits on your user page. I can't see your photos because I'm totally blind, but I can appreciate that Wikipedia desperately needs more free photos ... before your edit, we didn't even have a photo of Tracy Chapman in her heyday! The image credit seemed strange to me ... but after having read your user page, I now realise that it's a small price to pay for a freely licensed image. I've therefore restored the photo credit at Chapman's article. I've also corrected a spelling error on User:Leahtwosaints/userboxes/commons; hope you don't mind. Graham87 06:32, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Re: Wikibooks ... I assume you mean these kinds of books, not the actual website Wikibooks ... you certainly have a point there! The image credits should be somehow incorporated when Wikipedia is produced for offline use, even in appendix or something if need be. You've made me think about credits for sound files on Wikipedia, and the fact that the standard practice in that area is to credit the performers (especially if it's an acoustic recording rather than a MIDI file). I myself am a strong proponent of crediting sound file performers ... but crediting photographers seems strange to me (and to some others), and I'm not sure why that is! Graham87 07:24, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Keep on trucking! :-) As a Wikignome myself, I can definitely relate to your reluctance to heir opinions contrary to popular views ... I don't write anything on those public pages unless I'm really sure about it. I myself think that image credits shouldn't be mandatory ... that would open up a huge can of worms with regards to privacy and Google searches, among other things. But I really can't think of a convincing argument for completely disallowing them either, besides "that's the way we've always done it" ... I'm not sure, TBH. Your two ways of categorising images on the Commons sound like a good idea. The creation of categories for prolific photographers/performers is uncontroversial, and the addition of the photographer in the file name was a bit controversial when David Shankbone started doing it ... but it seems to have become more acceptable now. I don't believe that Wikipedia content and images would ever be able to just disappear in an instant anymore ... they've been copied around too much for that to happen. Probably the actual Wikipedia articles are the most secure, followed by the images. As a wiki-archeologist, I'm somewhat concerned about whether we will be able to preserve article histories, especially deleted edits ... sometimes they tell a fascinating story on their own! Re: image credits in Wikipedia books, I don't remember any discussions about that issue, but I believe it's a very serious problem. Graham87 15:46, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

BTW, to add an inline link to a category, put a colon before the category name like this: [[:Category:Kirk Stauffer photos]]. I've just fixed the link in your message to me. Graham87 15:52, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

If I understand you correctly, you can just edit Wikipedia:FAQ/Technical and add questions and answers in the same format as the other entries on the page. Graham87 03:59, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Eric Bell

Finally!! Great work! A photo of Eric was long overdue, and that's a pretty good one. A photo makes such a difference and you've done some excellent work finding so many great photos. Cheers! Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:00, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

That's a fantastic photo!! How would we go about getting permission to use it? I'd love to put that in Eric's article. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:03, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Let's do it! I promise to expand Eric's article - I should be able to add something more about his Thin Lizzy days, and perhaps a bit of his solo career, and I should be able to put together a half-decent discography. I wish I had my Thin Lizzy books with me, as they hold a good deal more info, but I'll have to wait until the next time I go back home to fetch them. In the meantime, I'll do the best I can. If you could get permission to use the photo, that would be awesome. It would really help to let people know that Eric is highly thought of in the music world, and that Thin Lizzy wasn't his only gig! I agree about Downey, a Live and Dangerous pic would be awesome, and he might prefer it too! I love Wikignomes! Wikipedia wouldn't function without them, and photognomes are the best of all ;) Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:15, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

You're one of those "behind the scenes" editors, without whom all the "I wrote this article" editors would be lost! I can write some half-decent text and lay an article out, but I'm not much good with photos and licences, or explaining to anyone else how to do things! That's what makes Wikipedia great - it needs all kinds of editors to work properly. It's a real drag when someone reverts the work you do - it happens to me sometimes, but I've grown pretty good at arguing my case and pushing my weight around, which is sometimes what you have to do, sadly. I've put Thin Lizzy up for a good article nomination by the way, so let's hope that works out.

OK, Eric and Bo Diddley did do an album together, called Hey! Bo Diddley... In Concert, when Eric was with a band called Mainsqueeze. Mainsqueeze were Bo's backing band for a time, and they recorded this live album in 1986. The photo must surely be from that time. So an album article can be done, and a fair bit of info is available for me to expand Eric's article. Eric's discography is not too big, so I thought it could go in his article. The album is already in the Bo Diddley discography, so just needs a wikilink. I'll get on to it this weekend :) Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:19, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

The photographer sounds like a great guy! Funny how he already knew we'd be asking about the photo, but he must be very sharp. I was looking at his other photos - really good stuff. Thanks for putting the photo on my page - makes it easier for me (as a bit of a photo dunce) to get it on to Eric's page. Will check Commons for the extra info.

I agree with you about the Wikibooks - photo permits aren't really meant for that kind of thing, as far as I know. I see you're finding that being an expert attracts lots of people asking for help and advice! It's funny how the internet works that way. When I wrote the Danny Kirwan article, so many people came to me here, on YouTube, message boards, all kinds of places, because I'd become some kind of go-to guy on the subject of Danny Kirwan! That said, quite a few people were just looking for info on him, hoping he was OK etc, and I was able to put their minds at rest. Anyway, good ideas about putting the photographer's name in the filename, and the category idea. Those things will surely help. Photographers will get sick of their work being used and abused if this kind of thing gets worse, and who can blame them? The village pump is a bit intimidating at first - it tends to house a bunch of people who like to push their ideas through with the minimum of debate, often without letting anyone else know there's a debate going on! If Ruhrfisch can help, all the better - it's an important topic.

The Thin Lizzy article is on the Good Article nominations list, and it's waiting for an uninvolved editor to come along and start the nomination procedure. When that happens, that editor will lay out on the talk page what he or she thinks needs to be improved or changed before the GA can be awarded. So keep a watch on Talk:Thin Lizzy! Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:29, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

David Immergluck

Hey- sorry for the delay. I think his DOB was in public records. I forget exactly what I did, but he is either the only David Immergluck in the U.S. or the only one born in or around 1964. --Starbucks95905 (talk) 18:34, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Public records actually state his DOB as being 5/3/61. --Starbucks95905 (talk) 18:44, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

More photo sources?

Hi Leah,

Thank you for putting in so much hard work into seeking out those "Byrds" photos but unfortunately, that version of the band is not really regarded as a proper line-up of The Byrds. It's all pretty complex but a brief version of events would be that original Byrds members Gene Clark and Michael Clarke began touring in the mid-80s as "A 20th Anniversary Tribute To The Byrds" and after Clark's death became "The Byrds featuring Michael Clarke". However, the name was often shortened in the act's publicity material and on their concert posters to simply "The Byrds". This prompted a court case between Clark and Clarke on the one side, and the other three original members (McGuinn, Crosby & Hillman) on the other, over the rights to the band name. As a result of this, McGuinn, Crosby and Hillman went out and performed a series of concerts as The Byrds between 1988 and 1990 and also recorded and released some new Byrds music. This McGuinn/Crosby/Hillman version of the group is considered to be a legitimate reunion because it featured McGuinn (who is head Byrd and the only member common to all '60s and '70s line-ups of the group), and because they released new Byrds material. Eventually, a settlement was reached, preventing any entity not including McGuinn, Hillman and Crosby from using the name "Byrds".

The pictures you have found on Flickr are of "The Byrds featuring Michael Clarke" in 1992. I don't think using these pictures in the main Byrds article is a good idea because the very use of the Byrds name by the individuals pictured is extremely contentious and as I say, they're not considered a bona fide Byrds line-up. If you look at the infobox in The Byrds' article it states that the years the band were active were 1964–1973 and 1988–1991 because that's when the "official" version of the band was together. However, I don't see any reason why one of those pictures (say this one for instance) couldn't be used in the Michael Clarke article, since this "bogus Byrds" is an important part of his story and the article even has a paragraph dedicated to "The Byrds featuring Michael Clarke". But it's up to you whether you want to pursue it or not. Oh, by the way...the JS who those photos belong to will be Jerry Sorn, who was in Clarke's version of The Byrds, not Jimmi Seiter.

As for your other question regarding images in infoboxes, it's the single cover that should be uploaded, rather than just the record itself. However, back in the 1960s, picture sleeves for singles weren't as common as they are now (especially in the U.S. and UK) and some singles were just released in a standard record company paper sleeve. So, in those instances, a photograph of the record label in its paper sleeve has to suffice (see the "Incense and Peppermints" article for example). The infoboxes for both "Mr. Tambourine Man" and "I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better" already have an image of their respective European picture sleeves, so I don't think the inclusion of images of promo records is really warranted. Sorry if I seem to be down on your suggestions here Leah, I don't mean to be. :) --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 12:46, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi Leah,

Thanks for checking my user page. I have not put anything there because I do not want to get more deeply involved with Wikipedia; I'm sure there are many people out there who find a NPOV a myth, and I have zero respect for publication as a guide to truth. So, with my personality, I now limit myself to correcting the worst of the spelling, usage, and style errors that litter Wikipedia.

In particular, I try to see that articles in English are written so that non-native speakers have an easier time with them. For example, native speakers have no problem with the grammar in the previous sentence, but changing "articles in English are written" to "articles written in English are composed" is helpful for non-native speakers. Msml (talk) 05:03, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Re: Lou Reed

While Lou Reed discography does not have it, some discographies, such as Bruce Springsteen discography, have a "Guest appearances" or similar section that lists appearances on tribute albums, other peoples' albums, etc. If you start such a section for Reed, you could list Sweet Relief: A Benefit for Victoria Williams in it. Wasted Time R (talk) 10:24, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

General references for Skip Battin and other articles

Greetings, Leahtwosaints. I've restored the References section that you deleted from the Skip Battin article, and explained why at Talk:Skip Battin#Place references here. Also, about a month ago you seemed to be raising a question on my talk page about this type of thing, at User talk:Mudwater#Notes and other things. I replied there at the time, but I'm not sure if you saw that. The short version of the story is that references to articles can either be footnotes, or references listed at the end of the article but not in footnote form, or both. Footnotes are better, but either way is okay. However as you have correctly pointed out the references should generally not be listed in a section called External links. Please take a look at what I wrote about all this on the Skip Battin talk page and also on my talk page. I'd be happy to discuss this with you further -- either here or on my talk page would be fine, whichever you prefer. Thanks! — Mudwater ^(Talk) 17:46, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Re:Would this help?

Not sure exactly how it would look with two columns - can you give an example article? It sounds like it might be a good idea though. We have a graph on the members' page - it might be the best place for it there. Possibly it might be overkill on the main page? Bretonbanquet (talk) 13:36, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Interior decorating

If you want to change the color in the collapse box, you need to add something like this:

bg=#FF0000

to the {{collapse top tag. I've changed yours to red and yellow.... you may want to change that! An RGB color chart will give you the codes, or you can mix them yourself. They have hexidecimal values going from 00 to FF (256) and it's additive, so Red + Green = Yellow, etc. rather than subtractive if you were mixing paint.

I'll add the user boxes etc. Catfish Jim & the soapdish 13:25, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi Leah, I tried to place the uploaded photos box into a collapse tag, but it cleared the text to beyond the user box. You may not be able to see this on your monitor, but looking at your user page, there is a massive gap under the Photos of musicians header. That's why I reverted that.

Also the way you have the gallery set up, with rows of four photos in black and white followed by a row in colour, followed by a row in black and white, etc., gets broken by monitor resolutions... for example, my display has your gallery in rows of three, which kind of ruins the aesthetics slightly :(

A colour chart for the RGB codes I mentioned above can be found here Catfish Jim & the soapdish 12:57, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Amanda F

Hello, Leahtwosaints. You have new messages at Tvoz's talk page.
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Tvoz/talk 04:14, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Used one of your Roger McGuinn photos

Hi Leah! Just wanted to let you know that I've used this modern photo of Roger McGuinn, which you recently sourced, in the main Byrds article. It's located right at the end of the article. I think I'm right in saying that this photo is not being used anywhere else on Wikipedia, so I thought I'd let you know that I had used it in case you wanted to contact the photo's author to let them know that their work is on Wikipedia.

I see that the Thin Lizzy article has passed its GA review. I took a look at it about a week ago and decided that despite a few small problems, it was basically ready for a GA review. Myself, I've never actually conducted a review of somebody else's article but I decided that the Thin Lizzy article would be a good one to start with. Unfortunately, before I could initiate my GA review, Jezhotwells reviewed it himself. Anyway, just wanted to let you know. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 11:10, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you!!

Thanks for the shiny thing! Much appreciated. I thought it went through quite easily in the end, I expected there to be more work required. But I'm very pleased with it, and thanks for your help :D Bretonbanquet (talk) 12:56, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

You're not so lowly! But yes, he really seems like a decent candidate, and we need more sensible admins. I agree some of those questions were just daft, and aimed at catching him out. But he dealt with them really well. I don't think he and I have crossed paths before, but if we have it certainly wasn't negative :) Regarding the ticket pic - perfect for a tour article, and as yet, I don't think Thin Lizzy have any. I'm sure most of them, if not all of them are notable, so that could be another thing to work on! Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:40, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Great pics! Particularly the one of Brian. Let's hope he's a bit happier with this one ;) Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:10, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Re: Technical questions

I asked you a question months ago and wasn't clear, so I didn't really get the answer. SO: When a performer (solo) or a band (collectively) record music on a record label, the infobox and the External links data area reflect that, right? And of course would be included in the discography? So, what if Martie Maguire as a member of the Dixie Chicks is signed to SONY/BMG? Whatever it is, So how could a Dixie Chick say they got their own label: Open Wide? When I see two record labels like that, I wonder if both SONY and BMG are separate and need both to be acknowledged, and what about the Open Wide part(?)

Per this CMT story and this USA Today story from the time, the Chicks got their own label Open Wide Records in 2002 as part of their settlement of a dispute with Sony Corporation. So if a CD they put out says Open Wide Records, that's what the infobox for it should say. Sony BMG was a temporary conglomerate between 2004 and 2008 that can probably be ignored with respect to Chicks infoboxes.

The other burning thought is when I see album and song articles, and people who do session work (as session musician) on other people's albums, and those labels would not appear anywhere but the discography since it isn't her album, right? --Leahtwosaints (talk) 11:00, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

In the old days, session musicians often belonged to labels (think Booker T. & the M.G.'s for Stax, the Funk Brothers for Motown, etc). Nowadays, I think all session musicians are independent contractors and don't have any particular label association. So it makes sense for the infobox for Al Jackson, Jr. to say label Stax, while the one for Kenny Aronoff would does not include that field. Wasted Time R (talk) 04:14, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Kaki King Photo; Anita Baker Birthdate.

Hi. Id like to get in touch with you directly via email on how to change the Kaki King photo immediately. Also; there does not need to be a lot of debate on the Anita Baker birthdate. How do we get that to stay at the correct date. Please contact me with an email address soon, would like to have these handled immediately; do not check wiki often enough to excute here in a timely manner.

-E 22:35, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

(^^^^4 ~'s up there, btw.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Empress Ericka (talk • contribs) 22:35, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Re:

Hello, Leahtwosaints. You have new messages at Tide rolls's talk page.
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Tiderolls 03:54, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

• I've replied further. Tiderolls 04:21, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Photos

Definitely! I mean, photos like that awesome one could go in the individual members' articles - that one could go in Phil Lynott or Scott Gorham and look great. So yes, anything else that you find can be used! Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:12, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

topicons

I noticed your reviewer and rollback icons were superimposed... I've moved them apart and tried to get the wikignome icon away from the edit count buttons... let me know how that looks on your computer. Catfish Jim & the soapdish 22:31, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Heh... glad you like it.

The RfA was placed for all the right reasons (I think)... I regularly come across situations in my usual, day-to-day WP activities in which a mop would be handy. I didn't make any announcements about it, as I didn't like the idea that it could be seen as "canvassing" for !votes. Thanks for the kind words, by the way! Catfish Jim & the soapdish 05:47, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

The words were well-deserved.  :) --Leahtwosaints (talk) 07:26, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

RfA request

Thanks I appreciate you thinking of me, but I'm not familiar with this editor. Looking at the RfA, he will definitely pass (only two objections and one of them is simply over his username), so rest easy. I'm going to try to get back into the swing of editing over the next week or so, but I've been gone for awhile and have several things on my talk that I should address--a lot of it is stupid mistakes of mine that others may have cleaned up in my absence; at the very least, I should give out some thank-yous. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:24, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Ted McKenna

Consider it done... (because it is) Catfish Jim & the soapdish 08:24, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

And done. Catfish Jim & the soapdish 14:13, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi Leah, I've had to make some adjustments to my user page this time... thanks for the support... boy am I glad that's over! Catfish Jim & the soapdish 09:38, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Lizzy

I've been getting so many messages on my talk page lately (mostly stupid ones) that I miss the good ones! OK, Downey/Mendoza/Warwick - awesome. All of those articles could do with a bit of expansion to match the quality photos. The longer the article, the more photos we can put in. Great idea about putting the Robbo/Phil/Scott photo on the discography page, and I agree with getting rid of the Sykes one.

Yes, the Gorham/Lynott one should go on the Gorham page. That's been on my list of things to expand for a while now, and I will get round to it. My source material is all at home though, and it might be a month or so before I can fetch it. Phil and Scott were pretty tight, partly the drug thing I guess, but also because Scott was a great balancing influence in the band, especially when Robbo was there, and later on Scott was a really solid friend in the band when there were a lot of line-up changes etc. Phil and Brian were very close too. But yeah, having a photo of Phil and Scott together is a great idea for Scott's page. I'll have a shot at expanding that part of his article for now, but I'll do a much bigger job when I get my books. Great job! Again! Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:05, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Hello, Leahtwosaints. You have new messages at Mudwater's talk page.
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Leah Sweetie, dont mean to be harsh

But I cant find your email and I dont feel like looking for it at this point. Im not reading through all this bullshit kid. Sorry. Fuck all of this; whats going on is serious over here, especially with the Anita Baker situation Im sure you can read up on on my page. If things arent changed quickly her label and lawyers plan to get invovled.

just please send my your email to my email address. empressericka@gmail.com. im not worried about spam. but you need to get back to me, seriously, within a 24 hour period.

thank you.

-E 06:36, 12 May 2011 (UTC)