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:But that presumes Macau is a nation, which is it not recognised as or claims to be. It is only a semi-autonomous region and is not a nation. I think that the quote "Along with the New Zealand Grand Prix, the race is one of only two non-Formula One events to receive the Grand Prix title." from the article is problematic even if we specify it as a national Grand Prix. Given this, would anyone be offended if I remove it until we can figure out what it is actually meant to say to ensure accuracy in the article? [[User:Nerdfighter Reed|Nerdfighter Reed]] ([[User talk:Nerdfighter Reed|talk]]) 11:39, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
:But that presumes Macau is a nation, which is it not recognised as or claims to be. It is only a semi-autonomous region and is not a nation. I think that the quote "Along with the New Zealand Grand Prix, the race is one of only two non-Formula One events to receive the Grand Prix title." from the article is problematic even if we specify it as a national Grand Prix. Given this, would anyone be offended if I remove it until we can figure out what it is actually meant to say to ensure accuracy in the article? [[User:Nerdfighter Reed|Nerdfighter Reed]] ([[User talk:Nerdfighter Reed|talk]]) 11:39, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
::I know I've definitely heard this "fact" thrown around by commentators and such quite a bit (I definitely remember the commentry mentioning it on the 2019 NZ GP broadcast at least once). Exact definitions asside, there's no denying that Macau is considered to be a country/nation in many contexts. It could be, for example, that what is meant by ''National Grand Prix'' is a GP organised by a national FIA representative, which Macau may well have. Anyway, I certainly don't have a problem with you removing the sentence from this article, since there's no citation anyway. [[User:A7V2|A7V2]] ([[User talk:A7V2|talk]]) 22:49, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
::I know I've definitely heard this "fact" thrown around by commentators and such quite a bit (I definitely remember the commentry mentioning it on the 2019 NZ GP broadcast at least once). Exact definitions asside, there's no denying that Macau is considered to be a country/nation in many contexts. It could be, for example, that what is meant by ''National Grand Prix'' is a GP organised by a national FIA representative, which Macau may well have. Anyway, I certainly don't have a problem with you removing the sentence from this article, since there's no citation anyway. [[User:A7V2|A7V2]] ([[User talk:A7V2|talk]]) 22:49, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

== 1990s Macau government page ==

I found https://web.archive.org/web/19980612140337/http://www.macau.gov.mo/mac4/cartaz.html
[[User:WhisperToMe|WhisperToMe]] ([[User talk:WhisperToMe|talk]]) 16:29, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Revision as of 16:29, 22 February 2021

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 May 2020 and 3 July 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ANTTONNY (article contribs).

Inclusion of winners

To give you my opinon, I say we should only include what is important, the winner of the main three races (F3, Guia and motorcycle), which the race have largely been centered on the most. If we add the GT Cup, which I doubt would last long like most support races, we may as well include winners of every support races there is that came and gone, inlcuding the Jackie Chan Cup, which is a Pro-Celebrity race. Donnie Park (talk) 21:28, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If we to include these (less than significant and recently introduced) support races, especially the GT Cup which which replaced the Carrera Cup, which in turn replaced the Supercar race (which had a history spanning over 15 years); we may be well include the Interport and CTM race which had a longer history. Donnie Park (talk) 14:03, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Agree, F3 (or leading open wheel), Touring Car and leading Bike only. That's why the FBMW stuff got PRODed. --Falcadore (talk) 19:34, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The 1983 race was won by Senna driving a Theodore Racing, this was a one off race, not his championship West Surrey Racing car he used in UK. 

31.185.253.128 (talk) 13:41, 17 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Formula Pacific from 1974?

Given that the first Formula Pacific race was run in New Zealand in 1977 (refer Formula Pacific) and that the Chronolgy page on the official website first mentions Formula Pacific in relation to the 1977 race (refer MGP Archive > Chronology > Decades of History) can we say that it was a Formula Pacific race from 1974? GTHO (talk) 23:52, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is part of why I don't like the use of the term Formula Brabham. It confuses the issue when you have two names for the same category. It was probably Formula Atlantic since many of Macau drivers and teams have travelled from Europe. In later years since the race dominated by cars no belonging to F-Pacific series why not retro-active back date the labelling of F-Pacific since it was the same regs. --Falcadore (talk) 00:20, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

According to http://www.oldracingcars.com/atlantic/ it looks like the Macau GP in 1974-76 didn't use any particular formula, but limited cars to 1600cc engines. Leaving it as Formula Pacific, given that that name didn't exist until 1977, is silly. I propose changing them to "Formula Libre (1600cc)", and will do so unless something better is suggested. A7V2 (talk) 03:45, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

While Formula Atlantic or Formula Atlantic plus invited cars is probably the correct answer, we should never invent something like Formula Libre (1600). If you don't know, then don't do it. --Falcadore (talk) 05:34, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Point taken, however I will say that calling it Formula Pacific, we are inventing history... From the "Old Racing Cars" link I sent it implies that the race wasn't run to any formula "Races in South East Asia were generally limited to 1600cc from 1973 onwards until the Macau GP formally adopted Formula Pacific in 1977". I am under the impression (and I say this with no particular confidence or justification) that if a race is run without any particular rules, just an engine restriction or something like that, then it would be Formula Libre. But I take your point, my suggestion is not the right answer, but neither is leaving it as-is. A7V2 (talk) 06:51, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(added later) - Realistically, I think this is a bigger tangle than it's worth the time to untangle... After looking around I think trying to find a definite answer is a lost cause. The Malaysian Grand Prix article has similar questionable use of Formula Pacific, the Singapore Grand Prix article lists it as Formula Libre all years, and yet for the 1973 article it mentions the cars were Australian Formula Two?? On the MotorSportMagazine database, the Macau GP for 1974-82 is listed under "Non-championship Formula Pacific / Atlantic" here. And then in the Old Racing Cars article about Australian F2 it mentions Macau adopting "almost identical Formula Pacific in 1975", with NZ following in 1976. And in my Australian Motor Racing Yearbook 1981/82 there's an article about F Pacific that mentions NZ entering a "brave new world" by going it alone with "Formula Atlantic/Pacific". I think it's safe to conclude that it's all a muddled mess, so it doesn't really make all that much difference! A7V2 (talk) 07:49, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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1969 race (Engine of winner)

I'm not at all convinced that Kevin Bartlett ran with an Alfa Romeo engine in 1969. On [1] there is a brief description of the history of the Mildren chassis, where it says that in early 1969, the car ran with an Alfa Romeo engine (specifically in the Tasman Series), and was then fitted with first a 1600cc Waggott engine for the Gold Star series (Australian driver's championship), and later (in 1969) a 1900cc Waggott. Unless I'm mistaken, the 1969 Macau Grand Prix took place on November 16, 1969, so it should have still had a Waggott engine, and I can't find a single online source which says it had an Alfa engine, but several which say it was a Waggott, including the official Macau Grand Prix website: [2], [3], [4]. I don't have access to the original Autosport article, but I'm speculating that given that the car ran with an Alfa Romeo engine in the Tasman Series earlier in the year they probably just made a mistake. A7V2 (talk) 12:18, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like you wrote. All online sources tells Waggot engine.Rpo.castro (talk) 14:04, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The Mildren referred to in the oldracingcars.com article (as linked above) is the Rennmax-built, spaceframe car predominantly driven by Max Stewart. The Mildren that won the 1969 Macau Grannd Prix was an Alan Mann Racing-built, monocoque car predominantly driven by Kevin Bartlett. An image of the monocoque car, can be seen at primotipo.com. Note that the caption under the image reads "Kevin Bartlett won the Macau Grand Prix in 1969 in the Mildren Alfa ‘Sub’, here in the paddock....."
With regard to references for the car being Alfa Romeo-powered at the 1969 Macau Grand Prix, we have:
  • a news item in Racing Car News, December 1969 indicating that Bartlett won the race "in the Mildren Alfa V8"
  • the race report in Racing Car News, January 1970 in which Bartlett is stated to have driven "the Mildren Alfa", "the 2½-litre Mildren" and, in the results listing, a "Mildren Alfa V8"
  • the race report in Autosport, 27 November 1969 which refers to the winning car as a "Mildren-Alfa V8", as the "Len Bailey-designed, Alan Mann-built Mildren-Alfa" and in the results listing as the "2.5 Mildren-Alfa V8"
  • the Primotipo article (as linked above) which refers to the car at Macau '69, as "the Mildren Alfa ‘Sub’"
It looks to me like the compilers of the linked Internet tables (note that none of them are actually articles), are ill-informed.

GTHO (talk) 02:45, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that GTHO. I was mainly concerned because sometimes the articles published straight after the race may include mistakes (especially if the program itself had a mistake), but given what you've said it looks like it's the modern websites which are incorrect. A7V2 (talk) 06:55, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's good that you raised your concerns. I have added additional references to the 1969 entry in the article. GTHO (talk) 09:58, 25 March 2019 (GMT)

Grand Prix Claim

The article claims that it is only one of two races that have the Grand Prix title that are non-Formula One. It claims that the New Zealand Grand Prix is the only other. Is there a reason why the Grand Prix of Pau is not included or is it a mistake that needs correcting? Nerdfighter Reed (talk) 09:59, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

On New Zealand Grand Prix it says "It is one of only two current national Grand Prix events that are not part of the Formula One World Championship, the other being the Macau Grand Prix." with a citation to a broken link of the New Zealand GP website. I don't know the details of the Grand Prix "title", but I'm quite sure that they are currently the only national Grand Prix which aren't Formula One races. A7V2 (talk) 10:21, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
But that presumes Macau is a nation, which is it not recognised as or claims to be. It is only a semi-autonomous region and is not a nation. I think that the quote "Along with the New Zealand Grand Prix, the race is one of only two non-Formula One events to receive the Grand Prix title." from the article is problematic even if we specify it as a national Grand Prix. Given this, would anyone be offended if I remove it until we can figure out what it is actually meant to say to ensure accuracy in the article? Nerdfighter Reed (talk) 11:39, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I know I've definitely heard this "fact" thrown around by commentators and such quite a bit (I definitely remember the commentry mentioning it on the 2019 NZ GP broadcast at least once). Exact definitions asside, there's no denying that Macau is considered to be a country/nation in many contexts. It could be, for example, that what is meant by National Grand Prix is a GP organised by a national FIA representative, which Macau may well have. Anyway, I certainly don't have a problem with you removing the sentence from this article, since there's no citation anyway. A7V2 (talk) 22:49, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1990s Macau government page

I found https://web.archive.org/web/19980612140337/http://www.macau.gov.mo/mac4/cartaz.html WhisperToMe (talk) 16:29, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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