User talk:M.Bitton

Congratulations from WP:STiki!

		The Gold STiki Barnstar of Merit
		Congratulations, M.Bitton! You're receiving this barnstar of merit because you recently crossed the 25,000 classification threshold using STiki. We thank you both for your contributions to Wikipedia at-large and your use of the tool. We hope you continue your ascent up the leaderboard and stay in touch at the talk page. Thank you and keep up the good work! West.andrew.g (talk) 14:40, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
	Hi, because of lack of time, i was not able to complete the article yesterday, thank you very much for taking the time to explain me how to use the Harv style and for completing (and correcting my mistakes) my edits at Medo-Babylonian conquest of the Assyrian Empire. Cheers. ---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 21:36, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

@Wikaviani: Thanks! Glad I could help. M.Bitton (talk) 23:47, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
	It’s always great to see more people fighting vandalism. Have a star! Jeb3Talk at me hereWhat I've Done 23:41, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

@Jebcubed: Thank you so much for your encouragement. M.Bitton (talk) 23:57, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you!

I see that you check recent edits for appropriateness. I clicked through to see a set of the reversions that you had made for rejected submissions, and I agreed with all of what I saw you had done. It seemed apparent to me through the decisions you made and the comments that you left that you were giving human attention to the decisions you made rather than over-relying on tools and automation. Thanks for that, and thanks especially for the notes you leave. You are doing good review. Blue Rasberry (talk) 01:39, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

@Bluerasberry: Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. Best, M.Bitton (talk) 22:07, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
	For your excellent job with creating the administrative maps of Albania! Ahmet Q. (talk) 07:40, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

@Ahmet Q.: Thank you so much for your feedback. Best, M.Bitton (talk) 22:27, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Another barnstar for you!

		The Original Barnstar
		For answering a lot of edit requests and helping to keep the backlog at bay. For a while, I was taking care of that on my own, and it feels nice to see someone else get to it first every now and then! Actualcpscm (talk) 17:22, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

@Actualcpscm: thank you very much for the encouragement and for tackling those time consuming edit requests that tend to be pushed to the back of the queue. Keep up the great work! Best, M.Bitton (talk) 22:39, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for your incredible work on the Horn of Africa relief map :)

		The Original Barnstar
		Here's a barnstar for your incredible work on the Horn of Africa relief map! Really appreciate the effort you put into it :) KluskaSlaska (talk) 16:21, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Also, on a related note, I would love to do some more map work once I have more time in late summer. Do you have any good guides on how to get started on maps for Wikipedia? :) KluskaSlaska (talk) 16:21, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@KluskaSlaska: Thank you so much for your feedback. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any good guides that would help you. Best, M.Bitton (talk) 14:02, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
		Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed in myself for not giving this to you sooner! You have been a great help creating maps for many articles, don't stop doing what you do! – Treetoes023 (talk) 22:09, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

@Treetoes023: Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. Best, M.Bitton (talk) 12:01, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Barbary slave trade

Due to unrelated drama I won't bore you with, I found myself looking at the history of this article, and uuh, thanks. A whole lot of POV-pushing was going on. When I have fewer tabs open I will try to remember to come back and give you a barnstar.

A barnstar for you!

	The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
	Thank you for your great Anti-Vandalism work on Wikipedia! I really appreciate it! :D Wiiformii (talk) 23:24, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

@Wiiformii: Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. Best, M.Bitton (talk) 23:31, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

A barnstar for you again!

	The Barnstar of Diplomacy
	You're simply wonderful to have a conversation with. You're a breath of fresh air in contentious topics. Moxy🍁 21:42, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@Moxy: thank you so much for your kind words. Best, M.Bitton (talk) 13:04, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Shakshouka - Israeli-Turkish and Israeli-Yemeni claims

Hi - I saw you reverted my addition of Israelis of Turkish heritage and Israelis of Yemeni hertiage making claims that the Shahshouka dishes was in their families' culture and cuisine. I added a reference. Calling them irrelevant claims is too dismissive. From my perspective, I think the line about "began appearing on Israeli restuarant menus in the 1990s" places an unneccesary recency of Shakshouka's popularity in Israel. I don't want to get into an edit-war, so I just want to see if there's different language that you think wouldn't be "undue emphasis"? Colt .55 (talk) 22:51, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Their claims are baseless (hearsay that is contradicted and dismissed by the scholarly sources). Do you have another source about when it started appearing in Israeli restaurant menus? M.Bitton (talk) 11:25, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppet of Noname JR

• Darudesandstormtrooper (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

Milik (talk) 01:18, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. M.Bitton (talk) 11:25, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

The sock has been CU confirmed and indeffed. Pinging Do not follow (since they are also active on fr.wp). M.Bitton (talk) 14:15, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your intervention. Milik13400 (talk) 15:25, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Withdrawal from the European Union: Algeria: footnote

It is a footnote because the article is about Withdrawal from the European Union. Getting into the details of the international politics of Algeria is off topic. See also User talk:Potymkin#Withdrawal from the EU. The information is important but is WP:UNDUE in the body. Putting it in a footnote keeps it available but not intrusive. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 23:24, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

@JMF: unless I'm missing something, the footnote's content is about the other reasons behind the "withdrawal". M.Bitton (talk) 23:28, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

That is where it gets complicated. Algeria withdrew from France. Did it withdraw from the EEC? "The Six" treated it as such – but on what legal or treaty basis? We don't appear to have any RSs. The general question of secession or division was discussed at talk:Withdrawal from the European Union but failed to resolve the matter.

We have a very long article that can't really get into a lot of detail in specific cases. We have a case from 50 years ago involving a substantially different organisation. The legality of Algeria's treatment is unclear (though my OR would say "without legal basis", especially as an explicit distinction was made in the treaties between its status and that if the other overseas departments. But I have no sources to support that view, so we can't say that.) So we would have a long and inconclusive section that would not really help the article. IMO, of course.

If you feel this is worth pursuing, then we had best move it to the article talk page, feel free to copy/paste. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 08:17, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

@JMF: I will at some point raise the other issues, but in this instance, I was referring to the part that mentions France and Italy's involvement in the 1976 treaty. M.Bitton (talk) 08:49, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I guess you had best elaborate at the talk page. But on the face of it, the 1976 treaty was not about Algerian "withdrawal from the EU" (or EEC, to be pedantic), it was about treating Algeria as a third country. Did Algeria withdraw from the EU (EEC)? I don't see that it did. Was it expelled? Probably, but de facto rather than de jure: that was essence of the discussion (re Calalunya and Scotland, but it applies to Algeria too) at talk:Withdrawal from the European Union#Secession from a member state, which went nowhere because there is no provision in the Treaties of European Union for it and nobody has produced a reference to an expert opinion. Either way, it is not obvious to me that the 1976 machinations of France and Italy are of body-text importance for this article but maybe there is another home for it?

A final point: footnotes in Wikipedia articles are far more significant and useful than those in books. Mouse over the footnote reference letter and the note is displayed. Otherwise it is clearly evident at the bottom of the page, not relegated to the back of the book. Indeed it may be that putting an item in a footnote gives it a prominence it might not otherwise have had. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:43, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

@JMF: too busy atm, but I will have a go at it at some point (btw, I'm familiar with footnotes, but thanks nonetheless). M.Bitton (talk) 17:06, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I should have written "In my opinion, footnotes in Wikipedia articles are far more significant and useful than those in books". I was trying to assert that the material has not be relegated to obscurity, as it might be if it were a book. So insult was inadvertent, my apologies. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 17:10, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

@JMF: no worries. M.Bitton (talk) 19:53, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Kingdom of Mauretania

Mind to tell me how my page for Kingdom of Mauretania is a POV fork? LeGabrie (talk) 19:36, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Because it is (infobox and all) and there is no indication that a unified kingdom existed (interrupted) from the 3rd century BC to 40 AD. M.Bitton (talk) 19:39, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Except that the Mauretania article deals with Mauretania as a region and not the kingdom. 2/3 of that article is about Mauretania after it was annexed by Rome. There should be an article about the region/Roman province and one about the kingdom. Other polities were also at times torn apart by a civil war, yet still have a dedicated page. LeGabrie (talk) 20:06, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

It deals with both and it's relatively small. Have you thought about expanding the "Moorish kingdom"? Very little is known about it (mostly claims that cannot be stated as facts), but you're welcome to try. M.Bitton (talk) 20:17, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

You have seen how detailed my article is, at least the parts that were finished. No way I can fit that all in one section. Wouldn't do Mauretania justice anyway. It needs its own article, just like Numidia. And our knowledge of this polity has extended significantly over the years, thanks to recent advances in Moroccan archaeology. LeGabrie (talk) 20:31, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Mauretania has its own article and what I saw, is a near copy of it (including the infobox). M.Bitton (talk) 20:35, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Then you didn't even bother to even read it before reverting it. It has two large sections about languages and numismatics, issues practically absent in the Mauretania page. LeGabrie (talk) 20:38, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

I saw them, but that doesn't change anything to what I said. M.Bitton (talk) 20:43, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

You claimed that my edit is a "near copy", which it is obviously not. Will revert. LeGabrie (talk) 20:50, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Near copy in the sense that it covers the same thing (that's why I described it as a fork). You already reverted the redirect once, please don't do again. If you feel strongly about it, start a discussion and seek consensus about it. M.Bitton (talk) 20:55, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Of course I feel strongly about it, I spent around two dozen hours researching and writing my text. Will start a discussion. LeGabrie (talk) 20:58, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

I still don't understand why you don't want to improve the article that we already have, but so be it. M.Bitton (talk) 21:03, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Backupwiki

Can you provide more details? Thanks. Doug Weller talk 07:11, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: having noticed that they were blocked on simple wiki for socking, I thought that the CU (who is active in this project) could shed some light on whose sock they are; but I don't think that's necessary given that they are being investigated on this project and connected to multiple other potential socks (see the open SPI). Best, M.Bitton (talk) 10:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't know where you get your stamina from

I've been following a lot of the discussions at Talk:Imane Khelif. I know there have been more than a couple of 'moments' where you've been frustrated with some of the issues raised but you've kept plodding away, trying to educate people about Wikipedia policy. I would have given up by now. I didn't feel that a barnstar would quite cut it when showing appreciation to yourself and others who stick with it, especially with new users. Knitsey (talk) 14:04, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

@Knitsey: Porridge and a dose of John Stuart Mill's wisdom. All jokes aside, thank you very much for your timely kind words. Best, M.Bitton (talk) 00:34, 10 August 2024 (UTC)