Talk:Osama bin Laden

Azzam's relationship with Bin Laden

Azzam's influence on Laden is lede-worthy. These are some academic sources describing a decade-long relationship between Azzam and Laden and Azzam's decisive influence on him:

From the research book Western Jihadism: A Thirty-year history

Bin Laden became a disciple of a Palestinian refugee, Abdullah Yusuf Azzam, the man known as “the father of the global jihad.” Steve Coll, who interviewed Bin Laden’s classmates and friends, writes that Bin Laden started to read Azzam’s writings during his student days

(pg. 44)

in 1979 Bin Laden met Azzam in the United States... The wives of Azzam and Bin Laden both reported that their husbands visited each other frequently in the early 1980s, in Jeddah and in Amman, Jordan, where Azzam’s family remained.

(pg 45)

In 1983, Bin Laden joined with Azzam, his mentor from his university days, to establish Maktab Khadama¯t al-Muja¯hidīn al-’Arab (MAK), known in English as the Afghan Services Bureau of the Mujahideen, in Peshawar. The bureau funneled money and volunteers from Arab countries to the fighters in Afghanistan. Working with Azzam, Bin Laden also helped to internationalize the conflict in Afghanistan by setting up charities and recruiting volunteers in Muslim countries, the United States and Europe. On their travels to recruit and raise money for the struggle, the two men spread the word about the obligation incumbent on Muslims to join the armed struggle in defense of Muslim lands against the unbelievers. The struggle against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan came first, but Azzam left no doubt about the need to continue the jihad after victory over the communists. In 1986, Bin Laden moved to Peshawar, taking his family with him. From that point on he would maintain a base there.

(pg. 47)

Bin Laden’s operations in the United States grew out of the Salafi-jihadist network that had been put together in the 1980s to raise money for jihad and to recruit Americans to fight for the mujahideen in Afghanistan. Azzam, known as the “Father of the Global Jihad,” toured American cities in the 1980s, lecturing at mosques and visiting charities. At one point he was accompanied by Bin Laden, his disciple from university days in Jeddah.

(pg. 99)

From the book The Caravan: Abdallah Azzam and the Rise of Global Jihad

the very first meeting between Abdallah Azzam and Usama Bin Ladin happened in Indianapolis, Indiana, of all places, in early 1978

(pg. 98)

Bin Ladin was no stranger to Azzam. As we saw in Chapter 5, the two had met in America in 1978 as well as in Saudi Arabia when Azzam lived there. Moreover, Azzam had been a guest at Bin Ladin’s house in Jeddah several times in 1982 and 1983.18 As Azzam later recalled, “I used to visit him at his house in Jeddah whenever I used to go for Hajj or Umrah ... The first time he invited me to his house was in Ramadan [i.e. July 1982].”

(pg. 209)

It was Abdallah Azzam who, in early 1984, convinced Bin Ladin to go to Peshawar and on to the border areas. Azzam later said, “Brother Usama Bin Ladin came to Islamabad in 1984 bringing aid, and he was nervous about going to Peshawar, as some wise people advised him against it ... I told him: Do not listen to anyone and go to Jaji as Sheikh Sayyaf is there.”27 The visit became a turning point in Bin Ladin’s involvement in the Afghan jihad.

(pg. 211)

Bin Ladin’s justification for his war on America was merely anextension of Azzam’s idea of umma defense.

(pg. 327)

there was a degree of practical cooperation and dialogue between al-Qaida and the Services Bureau in 1988 and 1989. Tamim al-Adnani, the executive director of the Services Bureau, is recorded as having participated in several meetings with known al�Qaida figures in this period... Azzam was so keen to maintain cooperation with Usama Bin Ladin and his men that in late 1988 he proposed having bin Ladin appointed leader of all the Arabs. According to Abdallah Anas, Azzam gathered the original founders of the Services Bureau and told them to go to Usama’s house and “organize an election of sorts where Osama becomes the emir.

(pg. 362)

From the book "Father of Jihad:Abdullah Azzam's Jihad Ideas"]

`Azzam> ’s role during the Soviet–Afghan war period had tremendous contributions to the current state of national and international security, and can be described thus: 1. A jihad advocate who raised jihad awareness among Muslims all over the world and rallied them to participate and support jihad in Afghanistan. 2. A commander for foreign volunteers in Afghanistan, training them for jihad and deploying them to various fronts. 3. An ideologue who constructed jihad ideology to mobilise Muslims and indoctrinate fighters. 4. The founder of Maktab Al-Khidmat> which, whether intended or not, later transformed into Al-Qaeda. 5. A mentor to Bin Laden who went on to become the leader of Al-Qaeda, the leading jihadist organisation today.

Reference a source for this sweeping claim in the Introduction

"Bin Laden grew to become a highly influential ideologue in the Islamic world." According to who? Osama bin Laden is reviled in the Islamic world and is barely given a mention in any scholarly circle. Please add a credible source for this statement. Avahoneybrown (talk) 06:51, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

I re-worded the sentence in line with the citations in the body of the page. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 21:44, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2024

In the Section "Letter to the American People" the last sentence states that "TikTok began taking down videos that shared the letter." This is not accurate to any of the 5 references cited with that sentence. I have not found any official sources confirming this claim.

Please change "The letter was removed from The Guardian website after more than 20 years of being present online in the news outlet's webpage and TikTok began taking down videos that shared the letter." to The letter was removed from The Guardian website after more than 20 years of being present online in the news outlet's webpage." 2603:6081:C640:5E5:7D26:8FB2:F459:2D18 (talk) 01:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

 Problem resolved: I have found and added a reference Marcus Markup (talk) 01:43, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

“Islamic” dissident

Apologies if it’s been discussed before, but what does “Islamic” dissident mean in the lede? Do we mean Islamist? Do we mean Muslim? It strikes me as very weird phrasing. Yr Enw (talk) 06:05, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

I shall change the wording to "Islamist dissident" in the lead sentence. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 12:57, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Surely it should also say terrorist. I get that that term is sometimes subjective, but it’s fairly objective here. Alexanderkowal (talk) 07:45, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

I’d rather not, per MOS:TERRORIST Yr Enw (talk) 09:49, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Is he not widely referred to as a terrorist in global media, not just American? Even Gaddafi called him a terrorist. Alexanderkowal (talk) 09:53, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

You’ve probably got a good case for it, and if other editors agree, then that trumps my own personal opinion (I am against using the word in editorial voice at all), so it’s up to you if you want to try to get consensus on it. Yr Enw (talk) 13:41, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

It’s more about reflecting a wide array of sources and if the bbc doesn’t label him a terrorist, considering it’s usually quite western centric in its foreign reporting, I don’t think there’s much of a case for it. I suppose we could look at academic sources Alexanderkowal (talk) 13:54, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

The classical definition of the word “terrorism” is the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims”. If he does not qualify, who does? I believe he should at the very least have this word referenced in the opening sentence. “An Islamist dissident… who financed, oversaw, and committed acts of terrorism”. Without that word, it feels like whitewashing what he is widely known to have done and been. C33msies (talk) 03:51, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

I get what you mean, but strictly in terms of how we apply terminology, the WP editorial guidelines (specifically WP:SYNTH) dissuade us from logical inductions like that. Rather than applying what we believe to be a universal (or, okay, just generally accepted) criteria, ideally it should be source-based. Yr Enw (talk) 06:21, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

To be fair, the BBC's obituary for him doesn't call him a terrorist. Alexanderkowal (talk) 09:59, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

BBC is a Left Wing Islamist Source, ofcourse it doesn't. 2405:201:C05C:830:F4E0:11B0:BC6A:47AD (talk) 13:54, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

You’re WP:NOTHERE, get off Facebook and talk to people Alexanderkowal (talk) 14:45, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Change the DOA date

It was may 1 2011 when his death was announced, not may 2nd as labeled. Use this video as reference, it was just after midnight during the announcement but the DOD was in-fact on 05/01/2011 File:President Obama on Death of Osama bin Laden.ogv Zlanning (talk) 03:55, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Corroborated by AP ꧁Zanahary꧂ 07:40, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

== ok weye m.a