User talk:Kbdank71

What do you think?

• Wikipedia_talk:Article_alerts#Appending

First, do you think I crossed any lines of civility?

Second, do you think that what I'm requesting is really as difficult as they're suggesting?

I thought I'd as your (and anyone else's) clueful opinion before making a bag request or bothering other bot owners... - jc37 03:55, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

First, seriously? Not even by a large stretch could you have been called incivil for that.

Second, and correct me if I'm wrong, but at a very high level you are asking for: instead of overwriting the old alerts with the new ones, take the old alerts and move them to a dated subpage first, correct? Also known as archiving? Let me answer by first stating I am far from a bot-writing expert. I don't know how the alertbot is written. That said, it's definitely doable. Mizabot (or any archive bot) is proof of that. Is it as difficult as they suggest? That I can't answer. It may be. I don't know how much work would be involved in a rewrite to add said functionality.

Wish I could give you more help, sorry. --Kbdank71 13:47, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, just wanted to make sure I wasn't being misunderstood.

As for the proposal:

The way the bot works (my understanding anyway), is that everytime it updates a page, it does so by over-writing what was there previously.

And apparently when a discussion is "closed", it will "disappear" from the page after a certain length of time. (Simply by not being one of the things which over-writes this time.)

The "archivetime" function causes the bot to not have something "disappear" until after the length of time determined. (Sounds like it can be at least up to a couple months and still remain "stable".)

And the other part of this is that how the bot works is by adding a "subscription request" to whatever page you would like an article alerts subpage added. So If we placed a subscription on your user page, I believe that currently it would then create User:Kbdank71/Article alerts. (Which you can watch, or even transclude elsewhere.)

So what I'm suggesting is to have the bot determine when it's the start of a new month. And when it does so, to change its target. So if you were to subscribe (as noted above), it would post to User:Kbdank71/Article alerts/2009/March

And for the first posting in April, the bot automatically realises that it's now April 1, and so now posts to User:Kbdank71/Article alerts/2009/April

March would not be "updated" (over-written) again, and so would act as an "archive" noting exactly what was discussed in march, even showing what was "still open" at the end of March.

And so on.

I dunno, but even though it takes lots and lots of words to explain, to code it would seem to only require:

1.)The ability of the bot to determine the date.

2.)The ability to add a variable in the target name (based upon the date determined in #1).

I would presume that this would be something very simple to code? But as I mentioned, perhaps I'm missing something.

So anyway, if he refuses to consider it further, my other option is to see if there's a bot out there which could do the above. (Essentially have a bot effect another bot's output.)

So the "other" bot would have to be able to identify the date. And at the end of March 31, change the subscription location from March to April.

Has the same effect, just rather than have it as part of the article alerts bot, another bots is doing it.

It would mean setting up the subscription not quite as intuitively: on each monthly page. User:Kbdank71/Article alerts/2009/March/Article alerts

But it would essentially do the same thing.

This could be done (moved) manually, but I think monthly archiving shouldn't rely on a person to do. (With all our fallibilities, and besides, who knows if the editor "in the know" will be around tomorrow to do this?)

Make more sense? - jc37 19:28, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I just thought of something. Is there a central location for discussions about wikiprojects? If this is something that a lot of projects would find helpful, perhaps the bot owner would be persuaded to make the change.

Also, if you wound up doing it manually, and forgot to archive for even a few days, you could just go back through the history and use the diffs of the changes in the archive. Just a thought. --Kbdank71 13:34, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

There are several places. The most obvious would be the WIkiProject Council, or one of it's sub-pages. And yes, he implemented the other request I had after I asked several WikiProjects (upon his request).

And yes, true enough, I just don't like to set up a process that requires any one particular person "in the know", seems less than intuitive, and means that things may become "broken" in he future.

I think my next stop is Werdna, since he seems to be the master of archiving. And see what his thoughts are concerning coding (and perhaps possibly his bot could handle this?) - jc37 22:24, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Fortean writers

Say, I just now saw that you closed out the discussion on those Fortean writers categories. For some reason I didn't anticipate that it would be closed, or I would have requested relisting for further discussion, in hopes of attracting additional participants. Seeing as no action was taken, and there was no concensus (so not comparable to the Fictional Afghans CFD), would you mind "unclosing" the CFD and relisting it? I think that would be better than opening a fresh CFD, since the basic issues are laid out pretty well in the relatively short discussion that took place. I'm also ready to open an adjoining CFD for renaming the Paranormal writers cat. (Btw, the term "Fortean" derives from the illustrious Charles Forte, whose work attracted a sort of cult following -- but I dare say you're far from alone in being in the dark about that!) Anyway, let me know what you think about relisting. And also, thanks for your comment on my talk page re adminship -- much appreciated. Cgingold (talk) 03:54, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Sure, I don't have a problem with that. It's been relisted today. --Kbdank71 13:02, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Is this vandalism?

Hi Kris,

I am prevented from editing "Miss Universe 2006" article by Angelo de la Paz. He is forcing his opinion and assumption about the placements in Miss Universe 2006.

There is a verifiable Miss Universe official link for the placements: http://www.missuniverse.com/press/07.23.06.html

but he is deleting the link and the edit I made repeatedly. Is this vandalism?

He is backing his point of view on sources that are not official (different pageant sites not associated with Miss Universe Organization) and that are ambiguous.

He has also added an image of Miss South Africa who was not even in the top 20 and who did not win any award. He is clearly not neutral, but using Wikipedia to promote his friends maybe. He does not give any reasons for adding her picture(there were 86 contestants in 2006).

Angelo de la Paz has also said that there was a mistake in Miss Universe article (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:MUCfan) and shows a link not associated with Miss Universe Organization. He has no authority to say that.

Please, can you help? I am new to this and feel that people like Angelo de la Paz have become the sole proprietors of Wikipedia. Can anybody stop him? He behaves like a dictator. You can see my, his and the article's talk pages as well. The article is "Miss Universe 2006"

Thank you for your help,

MUCfan (talk) 21:26, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

No, I don't see that it is vandalism. You think you have a valid source, the other editor thinks he has one as well. Problem is those sources are at odds with each other. Problem here is how to deal with it.

First off, when your block expires (it was only a 12 hour block), stop editing the article. Continually reverting it will just get you blocked again, for longer and longer periods. Stick to the article's talk page, or your talk page, or the other editor's talk page if you need to. Second, take a step back from the problem. You seem to be, through your actions and even your user name, to have a personal stake in what happens with this article. This is just an article in an online encyclopedia. Sometimes what is best for all is just to walk away and get a cup of perspective. Finally, I would recommend requesting mediation. I don't have a lot of experience with disputes, and I'd rather not give you bad advice when dealing with the article or the other editor. Good luck. --Kbdank71 13:26, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I have another question in regards to your answer of "Is this vandalism?"

Thank you for responding. So if I am a New York Yankees fan and my login name is NYYankeesFan, I wouldn't be able to edit their page?

It's assumed right away that I wouldn't be neutral, so my edits wouldn't count even if they are neutral and properly sourced?

MUCfan (talk) 13:50, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I didn't say you couldn't edit anything. I've noticed that fans tend to fight passionately when editing, and take more things personally, and that sometimes leads to blocks for exactly what you did. Which is why I suggested stepping back from editing MU articles. --Kbdank71 14:10, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Rename of Link protocols catergory

You have renamed the category 'Link protocols' against consensus in the talk page, but you claim consensus in the log files. Please review and correct. The rename is technically unwise. Kbrose (talk) 15:37, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't check the talk pages prior to closing CFD discussions. In the future, if you have a problem with a proposed rename, might I suggest you speak up at the discussion at CFD (which is linked to from the category page). --Kbdank71 15:51, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I voiced my opinion where the proposal was made originally. Apparently there was an error in that process as well. Kbrose (talk) 15:47, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I understand that. Just letting you know if you want your opinion heard, you should make it at CFD. --Kbdank71 15:51, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Appreciate the advice, thanks. I think, had the rename been proposed properly, I would have done the right things as well. I don't think there was a CFD entry when I opposed the move. Thanks for your corrections. Kbrose (talk) 15:54, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Transportation comment

I'm not sure whether your comments at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_March_8#Transportation are designed to get me to do something different, or to get other commenters to do something different. Vegas is definitely a special case which I will be nominating all at once, and the Pittsburgh, Philly, and Louisville "people" categories tend to be populated with people from the metro areas and thus will need to be purged. I'm not touching New York City's categories (yet); they probably should be "New York, New York" for consistency's sake, but I'm not derailing all these nominations with a battle over that. I think I'm doing the rest of it correctly, but please feel free to offer other suggestions prior to nomination. And thanks for your hard work, as always.--Mike Selinker (talk) 16:16, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Not at all. It was just me ranting, nothing more. I think you're doing a great job. I'd rather the discussions not be derailed because of one or two holdouts either, and that's why I rarely join in, I just close it as discussed. Thanks for the explanation, though. Makes me feel better to know that they aren't just falling by the wayside. --Kbdank71 16:32, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I didn't think you didn't think I was doing a great job. :^) --Mike Selinker (talk) 04:45, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Co-nom

• User:Vegaswikian

You know, if you're willing, I think you probably should. You've been at this longer than me, and I think you know us all better than we know each other : ) - jc37 22:26, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

• I'm not familiar enough with the nomination process to co-nominate, but let me know when you do it, and I'll support it.--Mike Selinker (talk) 04:51, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, you don't get to be a Grand and Glorious Tutnum by doing nothing, you know. Seriously, though, and with great regret, I think I'm going to have to pass. It's not that I don't think Vegas will do great, I do, and I'll be first in line to support. But for the same reason I'm against putting myself up for the same position, I feel that my tumultuous years at CFD have painted me in a rather negative light, and the last thing I want to do is torpedo the nomination simply by attaching my name to it. The last (and only) co-nom I've ever done was yours (which funnily enough, Mike also co-nommed), and I really don't see me doing any more. Caveat: this is all my opinion. If Vegas thinks I'll be more of a help than a hindrance, let me know. --Kbdank71 13:24, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh, this is for bureaucrat, isn't it? Oh, OK, then I know nothing about the nomination process.--Mike Selinker (talk) 15:26, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, Vegas is already an admin. I'm pretty sure the process is the same. --Kbdank71 15:27, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think you may be wrong in your guess-timation of yourself and how others perceive you...

For example, I seem to recall how impressed those who came to my RfA were with my 3 co-nominators - I know I was; and still am. To be honest, I felt very proud (and awed) that the three of you were there doing that. Even if my RfA had failed, I'd have treasured that.

But anyway, I'll go ask Vegaswikian what he thinks. - jc37 20:36, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Remember, though, that was back in Dec '06. I've closed a lot of CFD's since then. --Kbdank71 21:01, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Category talk:Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle people

Hi. I reverted your apparent blanking of this page, but upon spotting you're an admin wonder I if I was overhasty. Indonesia is in the middle of an election campaign and there have been a number of vandal attacks on party political pages, and I didn't understand the "cfd endede" edit summary, so I assumed it was another tiresome attack. Have I boobed? If so, I apologise. Davidelit (talk) 18:47, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I was just removing the Template:Cfdnotice (added to notify people that a CFD related to the category was going on) because the related CFD had ended ("cfd endede" was a typo; should have been "cfd ended"). No need to apologize, I can see how it would look like vandalism. --Kbdank71 18:56, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I have restored your edit. Thanks. Davidelit (talk) 19:38, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

CfD banners on talk pages

I appreciate you documenting closed CfD's with those banners on the category talk pages. I think everyone who closes a CfD should be doing that. Thanks again! kilbad (talk) 13:10, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

List status

Thank you for this edit. I guess I shoulda did that.--Rockfang (talk) 20:07, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

No problem. I just didn't want someone else starting a list while you're in the middle of one. --Kbdank71 20:08, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Stop the bot

You bot has now managed to magically fling dozens of spacecraft off the depths of the sea and off the land back into space. Hire it out to NASA but stop the category moves which do not make any physical sense and are not covered by the discussion on categories for deletion. Rmhermen (talk) 21:32, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

What are you talking about? --Kbdank71 23:32, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Never mind, I found it. I reverted you, as the change the bot made was based upon the CFD discussion. --Kbdank71 23:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I have read the CFD discussion and do not agree that it justifies your action. Please reexamine the comments. We can do many things which make Wikipedia look silly and unprofessional. Listing satellites known to be resting on the bottom of the Atlantic as "Artificial satellites orbiting Earth" is certainly one. Rmhermen (talk) 17:05, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I understand your concern, however, consensus has shown to not use "formerly" categories. Since that change is affecting WRESAT, I'll remove the category from the article. --Kbdank71 17:15, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I am afraid you still don't understand. This affects dozens of articles at least. I have taken it to Wikipedia:Deletion review. Rmhermen (talk) 16:45, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

DRV

I have opened a DRV on the wrangler categories, on which you opined. Occuli (talk) 02:46, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Copying customised talkpage ambox

Hi there Kbdank, is it ok to copy without attribution your customised ambox at the top of this page for leaving talk page messages? The way I understand it I think it should be ok under GFDL but I just wanted to check quickly with you. Thanks. --Wikiphile1603 (talk) 14:47, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Sure, copy away. --Kbdank71 14:53, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

me too

Kbdank, you've got the only userbox I need to make my crap user page look like its really a minimalist userpage. Can I copy too? I ask because Wikiphile asked, and I don't want to be ruder. Multiregards. Haploidavey (talk) 01:23, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Not a problem. Enjoy! --Kbdank71 02:00, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Madman categories

Could you shed a little light on why you closed Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2009 March 19#Madman Entertainment subcats as rename, given that there had been no comments either in favor or against the proposal? In what way is that a consensus? —Quasirandom (talk) 22:40, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Just to butt in—but I would have done the same had I closed it. If there are no comments after the prescribed period of time a discussion should be open, we're left with 1 in favor (the nominator) and none opposed. We can't force people to comment on a propsal, and if it's just not attracting any interested commenters, then it makes sense to go forward with the proposal since there is no expressed opposition to it. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 23:48, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

That's exactly it. --Kbdank71 02:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, two responses: 1) The thing is, there was no notice of the proposal in either relevant project or the deletion sorting sorting, so I gotta wonder how many editors with a relevant opinion even saw it. 2) I thought CFD was like AFD, requiring a minimum number of commenters in order to demonstrate consensus rather than assuming it from silence. Could be I'm wrong there, but I find it startling if so. —Quasirandom (talk) 19:54, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

(butting in) What is your objection to the rename? It appears to have quite sensibly clarified the category's contents. If you object to the rename, just list it again on CFD for renaming to something else, or renaming back. Postdlf (talk) 20:00, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Mainly, verbosity and the precedent of all the other manga distributor (that one has original works too) categories (also) -- which are admittedly not consistent and some could use renaming themselves. —Quasirandom (talk) 23:03, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Please see User:Kbdank71/Wikiproject_notification as to why no project was notified. As for CFD vs AFD: There are many more participants at AFD, bottom line. If we needed a quorum at CFD, we'd never get anything done. There have been many occasions in which a rename or delete has gone through simply because there was no opposition (regardless of how many were in favor). I would suggest at this point to follow Postdlf's recommendation: since you yourself admit that the categories are not consistent, nominate them for renaming. --Kbdank71 02:40, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Forensic Enomology project

Thank you for your input. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cassiegz (talk • contribs) 04:06, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

A favor

Tell you what, I'm going to restore Category:FPMT to get a certain editor away from my talk page. You closed the discussion that renamed/deleted this one. If you think it should be deleted, re-delete it. If you think it should be kept, don't delete it. I don't care which is done. If it's re-deleted, the editor will hopefully get the message that it's not just me. If it's not re-deleted, the editor will rejoice that his pestering nature paid off. The die is cast ... Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:48, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Holy crap are you nuts? Re-deleting that category will just move what I can only describe as the WP:TLDR from your talk page to here, and I have enough bullcrap and complaining and wikilaywering of my own do deal with. The little that I did read ensures me I'd just get the same "A not-so-good approach: confrontational, does not assume good faith" that you did. That and I'm sure I'd have at least one other visitor who would complain about CFD in general, about how I'm a rotten admin, and that you and I are in cahoots and how we should be de-adminned forcefully with a sharp stick. --Kbdank71 03:06, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Besides, if I'm not mistaken, I've already had a run-in with that editor here, and I don't relish having another. It's just too draining. Let him rejoice. Jimbo almighty could tell him it's not just you, and he still wouldn't get the message. --Kbdank71 03:15, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

While I'm empathetic to the current situations, restoring something to force the closer to "enforce" a closure is just wrong in several ways.

In addition, the idea that harrassment of admins is what one should do to "GETMYWAY", sounds like a really bad precedent to start.

I wonder if we do some searching if we'll find similar issues of bad faith by certain editors elsewhere...

I think the next best action is to get other admins involved. Assemble some diff, and figure out how to write a "concise" back history and post it to WP:AN/I. (I'm stuck on the "concise part atm...)

This needs to end post haste. This set of disruptions just isn't good for the encyclopedia. - jc37 03:58, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Sigh. As usual, you are correct. I'm getting offline now, I'll think it over and hopefully come up with something by the morning. --Kbdank71 04:01, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Double sigh—yes, jc37 is right on all counts.

I thought you, Kbdank, would adopt this tack and refuse to do anything ... I passed the buck to you earlier today purely out of desperation more than anything else, and because you popped up at the right time on my talk page. It wasn't my intent to shift the blame to you or to pass the controversy on. ....

OK—yes it was my intent to do that. :) But I also figured you'd be smart enough to call me dip-s crazy.

In this situation I just couldn't take the constant "pestering" any longer—and that's exactly what it was, just pestering—asking the same things over and over and over again and not being satisfied with any answer that was provided or any attempt to defer the question until I had time to organize some more comments on the broader issues. I came close to just ignoring his posts, but really—that's not my style to ignore posts directed at me on my own talk page, and I figured that doing so would probably just provoke more of his already confrontational approach. And I didn't care that much about the substantive issue, so I caved, essentially. I was initially being stubborn for the "principle of the thing," but I couldn't keep it mainly because I didn't give two hoots about the substantive issue of FPMT. And he was so pestering.

But as I said jc37 is probably right. I just don't know what to do about any of it at this point. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 09:23, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Feeling refreshed and somewhat encouraged by the comments above, I re-deleted the category. I'd hate to have my weak moment define the status of the situation. (My more usual weakness is that I can be a stubborn S.O.B. about trivial matters when users are rude.) I must be a glutton for punishment. I shall gird my loins for the coming onslaught, and try to care. .... Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 09:36, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Same weakness here. Good luck. --Kbdank71 13:50, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, it looks like it's about as resolved as it's going to be. I guess attempting to logically address a person's statements is equal to not actually answering their questions. C'est la vie... - jc37 06:34, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Manhattan Beach Wiki Entry

Dear Kbdank71: My name is Jaime Brown and I'm President of . We are quickly becoming a major resource for locals and visitors to the South Bay, including Manhattan Beach. We offer a full business listing, daily event calendar and much more. We would really appreciate it if you could place a link to our site, referencing it as a resource to people interested in the area. I understand you probably receive many requests of this type, but I feel our site is extremely important to those interested in the city. Thanks and I appreciate your consideration. Regards, Jaime Brown President, 71.119.123.204 (talk) 18:01, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I am unable to comply with your request, and have removed your website from your message. What you want is essentially free advertising, and that's not what Wikipedia does. I would recommend something like google adwords. --Kbdank71 13:56, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

AMS

As discussed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Airports#Destinations_by_Region. Thanks! Charmedaddict (talk) 18:07, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Category:Current spaceflights

• I am confused with your closure of the CFD for this category. It appears you did not fully understand the comments regarding making it a hidden category (which is standard practice for other temporal categories, see subcategories of Category:Current events. Either way, there was no consensus, so I am considering Deletion Review. --GW… 22:23, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I understood them. Per Category:Hidden categories: the categories that should appear here are the maintenance categories, that is, categories reflecting the present status of the encyclopedia article, rather than classifying the article subject By making current spaceflights hidden, not only can you not use it for navigation, but you are classifying the subject, instead of the present status of the article. As for the subcategories of Category:Current events, that really doesn't have anything to do with this. While Category:Current events is indeed hidden, the subcategories are not. --Kbdank71 13:35, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Either way, I can't see how the outcome of the discussion could be deemed a consensus. Please could you explain how you interpreted it. --GW… 15:04, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

There is extensive precedent and consensus to remove "current" specifications from category names. Per WP:CON: "Consensus among a limited group of editors, at one place and time, cannot override community consensus on a wider scale." Also, I gave less weight to several of the "oppose/keep" !votes, namely the anon's (I didn't see the method of population as a good reason to keep, rename, or delete), and yours, MBK's, and sdsds's arguments that there are other categories for current events/it is useful aren't negated by a rename; this can still be used for current spaceflights, and if anyone found it useful before should certainly still find it useful. That and the fact that without more explanation, a straight "oppose" is opposing the nominator's merge request, not the rename suggested by otto (only sdsds said "keep as is"). Please remember that "consensus" is not merely counting votes; also from WP:CON: "Wikipedia does not base its decisions on the number of people who show up and vote; we work on a system of good reasons." I felt that the reasons brought to rename, and the vast precedent, presented a rough consensus to make the change. --Kbdank71 15:28, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Please can you provide some evidence of this precedent. --GW… 22:42, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I keep a list of them in my userspace here, with all the links so that you can go to the discussions and read them. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 23:05, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Settlements

Howcum you are replacing "Los Angeles County Communities" with "Settlements in Los Angeles County"? Yours in puzzlement, GeorgeLouis (talk) 04:17, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

That move was based upon a discussion here. --Kbdank71 13:21, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Just in case

• Wikipedia:April fools/April Fools' Day 2009
• Wikipedia:April fools/April Fools' Day 2009/Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Jimbo Wales

Just in case you missed out on the fun. : ) - jc37 02:21, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I missed out on most of it. I don't know why, but I had more fun reading the festivities last year. File:BLPDGAF.jpg is pretty funny, though. --Kbdank71 13:45, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Message from User:Keri Marie Davis

Hey, how can i create my owm articles? I'm still new. I got my account like just last month. So, i'm still trying to figure out some things. Keri Marie Davis (talk) 13:04, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Keri, there was a message left on your talk page. It has several links that you might find helpful, including Wikipedia:How to edit a page. Give those a read and if you still have questions, let me know and I'll do my best to answer them. --Kbdank71 13:29, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

As you requested

• User_talk:Aervanath#Request_for_clarification

You asked that I drop you a note if I asked someone for clarification of a closure : ) - jc37 08:34, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I can't say I'm surprised. "A clear majority of participants" sounds like vote-counting to me. --Kbdank71 16:20, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

And probably not worth continuing to request further clarity. But if it continues to be a pattern, I suppose it may then be worth following up. - jc37 21:42, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Hey, Thanks it really helped me out. Now all I have to do is figure out how to get those user boxes on my home page. Keri Marie Davis (talk) 14:48, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Category:Vice

Hi, I see you're a CAT maven - I closed WP:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_March_30#Category:Vice but don't have a Windows PC and can't use AWB. Could you clean & delete it for me? If not, no problem, I'll do it manually tonight.
Thanks, —EqualRights (talk) 13:23, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

No problem. Two things, though: Be careful in closing xFD discussions. Non-admins are permitted to close them, but only under certain circumstances. See Wikipedia:Non-admin closure. Also, when closing, please use the templates {{Cfd top}} and {{Cfd bottom}} instead of the AFD ones you used. I'll add this category to the moves I'm doing now. --Kbdank71 13:29, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Yow, apologies - WP:Category_deletion_policy doesn't mention the non-admin rule and links within WP:Deletion_process; I didn't notice its non-admin text at the top. Some tweaks to the CDP page (and maybe bolding the DP non-admin text) might be a good idea to handle that... (No excuse for using the wrong template, though - my eyes must have wandered.) —EqualRights (talk) 14:00, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

If your closing of this was an issue (with me, anyway), I'd have told you. I'll make sure the non-admin closure gets added to the CDP. I wasn't aware it wasn't there. If you have any questions about closing, or any categories you need moved or deleted, just let me know. --Kbdank71 14:03, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, we're all set; I'm just embarrassed that I didn't follow a rule (I'm a bit compulsive that way.) —EqualRights (talk) 14:06, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm more concerned here that the closer was the same user as the nominator! Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 22:02, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Crap, missed that totally. --Kbdank71 23:56, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

are u retard?

its not incorrect info, the tournament is miami. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.57.9.113 (talk) 15:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

r i retard? No, no I am not. --Kbdank71 16:41, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

...for reverting the vandalism to my user talk :) →Na·gy 15:50, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

204.184.70.4

Hello. I see you warned this IP for this edit: [1]. I had just warned him for this edit: [2] on the same page. Just wanted to inform you. America69 (talk) 16:26, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Private collections

The split here was the wrong way round surely? No one proposed what you have done. Johnbod (talk) 13:48, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

You are correct. I meant to type no consensus on former, merge current. I'll fix it now. Thanks for catching it! --Kbdank71 13:54, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Damn. I fixed the close, but forgot to change it in my work queue. Grrr. --Kbdank71 14:55, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Category:Sentential logic

As there was no consensus for GregBard's manual move of the category to Category:Propositional logic, shouldn't that move be reversed? — Arthur Rubin (talk) 14:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Working on that now. Several of the articles were already removed from Propositional logic but added to a different category. I'm going to leave those where they are. --Kbdank71 14:39, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Ok, it's done. There is only one article left that Greg didn't add. Since he created the category after he began making the moves, that one article can probably be recatted and the category put up for speedy as empty. --Kbdank71 14:45, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I have proposed that any future changes to Logic categegories are discussed first at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Logic--Philogo (talk) 23:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Category:Canadian MPs who have crossed the floor

Hi,

I was surprised by your conclusion of Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_March_29#Category:Canadian_MPs_who_have_crossed_the_floor. I don't think a consensus was reached with four deletes and four keeps.

I also don't believe that the two reasons for the conclusion are criteria for deletion, but that discussion should probably happen somewhere else.--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 21:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Consensus is never reached by counting votes. In this discussion, the arguments to delete were far stronger. --Kbdank71 23:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

You are correct that consensus is not a vote. We don't agree on the relative strength of the arguments.

There were some valid arguments for deletion, but the argument that the summary relies on is not one of them. Arguments for deletion of a category should not be dependent on the existence or merits of an analogous list.

Can you reconsider the discussion?--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 09:04, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Arguments for deletion of a category should not be dependent on the existence or merits of an analogous list. Why not? I thought that was a rather strong argument. --Kbdank71 10:21, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

It is not a contest. Each category or list should be judged on its own merits.--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 19:19, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

"Keep, lists and categories can co-exist" isn't much of an argument IMHO. And "Keep, lists and categories must always co-exist per WP:CLN" is simply not correct. Bearcat and Brownhairedgirl explained quite well why this particular information is useless as a category but not as a list, and no one refuted, or even substantively responded to, their points. Postdlf (talk) 15:52, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Your comments

• Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/MZMcBride 2

I saw your comments and was surprised. My experience with him has been almost overwhelmingly positive.

Besides the RfA obviously being too soon, what are you seeing that I'm missing? - jc37 05:22, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I was unimpressed by a couple of things. The fact that the arbcom needed two injunctions because of his deletions. Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/MZMcBride#Temporary_injunction.28s.29: If he didn't get the memo on the first injunction, then I'll apologize for misunderstanding, but from where I'm sitting, it appears he can just ignore the arbcom when it suits him. That didn't do a lot in regards to my trusting him. In addition, yes, the whole timing and manner of the RfA just sucked. Just another way, IMO, of him snubbing his nose at them. I know, he's a great admin, and as I said, I will support if/when he runs again. It's just that I had a bad taste in my mouth and the trust just wasn't there. --Kbdank71 15:17, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I really can't argue against that. The only thing I "might" point out is that considering the volume of his admin actions, having two instances where XfD might have been better than speedy, doesn't seem like overwhelming proof of poor adminship. That said, it does seem to be an indication of impatience or "rushing" as some mentioned in his RfA. And coupled with the timing of his RfA... So if there's a lesson here, it could be to not rush, as in most instances, there is no deadline. (A lesson perhaps we all fall afoul of at times, myself included.)

Though if I were to venture a guess, the "rush" in this case may have been as a result of the outpouring of support on his talk page (myself included). That's part of why I didn't flog him over rushing this, I think I kinda understand why he did it.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification.

Speaking of XfDs, what did you think of my comments to another editor on that page? And how do you think you would have assessed the XfD and/or for that matter, the resultant DRV? - jc37 00:31, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Category:Psychics

I think you closed it properly as no consensus, but your analogy to police officers and astronauts is off point because no one disputes that such things exist (moon hoax conspiracy notwithstanding), even though one may dispute that a particular individual was in fact an astronaut or is instead a pretender. But there is a dispute as to whether psychic paranormal powers really exist, so one cannot say anyone is truly a psychic in that sense. I was personally on the fence as to whether this issue mandates a rename, basically because of the "gods" analogy someone else pointed out; I think it's probably understood what is meant, and that the existence of the category doesn't necessarily imply an empirical claim. Postdlf (talk) 16:02, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I guess my point was it's not our job to take such disputes into account. By categorizing someone as a psychic, we are not taking a stand on the issue of whether or not such powers exist, just like we are not taking a stand on whether or not Joe Policeman is a policeman. We shouldn't have to qualify anything as "our sources state that...", even if the veracity is disputed, because all of wikipedia is based on "our sources state that..." --Kbdank71 17:07, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Redirects

If you're going to delete redirects from the database report, please ignore what it says and check them first in future, I just had to restore several which I had already gone over and fixed the targets. Thanks you--Jac16888^Talk 20:14, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Ugh, that's what I get for following directions. Sorry about that. --Kbdank71 20:17, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

No worries, Its partially my fault for letting it get that big a backlog, stuck on an old computer so I haven't been clearing it as often as I normally do--Jac16888^Talk 20:20, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I've bookmarked it, so I'll try to keep an eye on it as well. --Kbdank71 20:27, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks!

		The Admin's Barnstar
		Thanks for helping to clear that massive backlog of broken redirects. I don't know how only four admins managed to compensate for RedirectCleanupBot, but it worked! --Dylan (chat, work, ping, sign) 20:32, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

A small task for your bot

I have recently speedily renamed a lot of Croatian county categories and fixing the article links would be quite an onerous assignment if it's done by hand. Could you help me out? Here is the list:

• Category:Bjelovar-Bilogora County to Category:Bjelovar–Bilogora County
• Category:Brod-Posavina County to Category:Brod–Posavina County
• Category:Dubrovnik-Neretva County to Category:Dubrovnik–Neretva County
• Category:Koprivnica-Križevci County to Category:Krapina–Zagorje County
• Category:Lika-Senj County to Category:Lika–Senj County
• Category:Osijek-Baranja County to Category:Osijek–Baranja County
• Category:Požega-Slavonia County to Category:Požega–Slavonia County
• Category:Primorje-Gorski Kotar County to Category:Primorje–Gorski Kotar County
• Category:Sisak-Moslavina County to Category:Sisak–Moslavina County
• Category:Split-Dalmatia County to Category:Split–Dalmatia County
• Category:Šibenik-Knin County to Category:Šibenik–Knin County
• Category:Virovitica-Podravina County to Category:Virovitica–Podravina County
• Category:Vukovar-Syrmia County to Category:Vukovar–Syrmia County

I've temporarily left the old category pages as redirects, but I'll delete them to prevent problems with HotCat as soon as you fix their members. —Admiral Norton ^(talk) 17:28, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I'd be more than happy to, except that this is change is not speediable per WP:CFDS. In addition, at the same page, Vegaswikian just nominated the first one as a speedy in the other direction. So seeing as these already can be considered contested (and there is precedent for not using anything but hyphens in category names), they should all go for a full CFD. If the decision there is to, in fact, rename these as the above, I'll get my bot right on it. --Kbdank71 01:37, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I have temporarily reverted the moves awaiting discussion at CfD. You can participate here. —Admiral Norton ^(talk) 13:31, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Close of Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2009 April 6#Category:Knuckleball pitchers

I will ask you to reconsider your recent close of Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2009 April 6#Category:Knuckleball pitchers, which you determined reached a consensus to delete based on "per performer by performance and strength of below arguments." I had not seen the CfD before, and I would be more than willing to provide ample evidence to demonstrate that the category is a strong defining characteristic, if that additional information would have any chance of swaying your judgment. There were few real arguments offered to keep or delete, and you seemed to determine that the "performer by performance" issue carried the day. The problem is that this is a rather false analogy. While it might fit for Category:Pitchers who have pitched at Yankee Stadium, the category here is not capturing a "performance" by any definition of the term. This is capturing by technique or method, a standard widely used for categorization purposes across Wikipedia that shows why Plácido Domingo is included in Category:Operatic tenors along with his fellow members of The Three Tenors, José Carreras and Luciano Pavarotti. I look forward to your response. Alansohn (talk) 20:47, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to have to decline to change the close. I didn't say that the "performer by performance" issue carried the day. It was definitely part of the reasoning for the close (as I didn't see it as a false analogy), but "carried the day" is a bit of a stretch. The strength of arguments were also taken into account. For example, I gave Mr. Accountable's vote much less weight since it was nothing more than a vote. And the anon stated that the knuckleball is rare and hard to throw, but we don't keep or delete categories based upon rarity or difficulty of the subject. So that leaves DGG's "possible keep". I'm afraid that even if you had stopped by give your "it's a strong defining characteristic" argument, I still would have closed it as delete. The consensus seemed clear to me. --Kbdank71 02:06, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I expected little, and was not surprised. I'm gathering evidence of being a knuckleball pitcher as a strong defining characteristic. See you at DRV. Alansohn (talk) 02:40, 14 April 2009 (UTC)