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February 3

The Start of Metal

Who started the genre? — Preceding unsigned comment added by GlennRichardAllison (talk • contribs) 00:39, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Our article Heavy metal music (actually it's a featured article!) has a "History" section that answers this. Comet Tuttle (talk) 00:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Possibly Steppenwolf see Born to Be Wild. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:43, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Not really. It's hard to pin down a specific "founding band" of heavy metal. The term "heavy metal" was first applied by a critic to the music of Humble Pie, while Born to be Wild contained the words "heavy metal thunder". Heavy metal music as a genre coalesced rapidly during a few short years, say 1968-1969. Elements common to heavy metal appear in bands as diverse as the two I just mentioned, the Beatles (think of the guitars in Revolution), the Kinks (especially You Really Got Me), the band Mountain (esp. Mississippi Queen). and even Queen (Stone Cold Crazy). You also can't ignore the importance of Deep Purple; its DNA shows up all over heavy metal, especially if you consider the connections from Ritchie Blackmore to Ronnie James Dio and thus to the Mark II version of Black Sabbath. If you have to distill it to its true origins, the two Big Founders of heavy metal; as in the ones that had the greatest commercial impact as well as artistic influence on the genre, you'd have to point to Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath. Zeppelin provides the template for the lighter, more fun-loving party-metal bands, such as AC/DC and the Hair metal movement. Black Sabbath lays the groundwork for the heavier, darker end of metal, the first two versions of the band, the Ozzy Osborne-led Mark I Black Sabbath, and the Ronnie James Dio-fronted version from the Heavan and Hell period are hugely important to driving this aspect of Metal. All of the various Death metal are direct descendants of Sabbath. Two other important movements in metal which start mostly independent of those two bands, but come about later, are the New Wave of British Heavy Metal which was founded mostly by Judas Priest (though they had released several pre-NWOBHM albums) and the American Thrash metal which was roughly contemporaneous with the NWOBHM. The major things which heavily influenced both NWOBHM and Thrash was heavy punk rock crossover in the bands. Both NWOBHM band Iron Maiden and Thrash founders Metallica were heavily influenced by punk; early on in both bands careers they were frequently pigeonholed as "punk" bands because Heavy metal purists didn't like the punk aspects to their sound. If you had to pick any founding bands of heavy metal, you could probably distill it down to Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Metallica, and Judas Priest; those were the most important bands in defining the sounds and looks of what became the biggest subgenres of heavy metal; though none of them were necessarily around at the "founding" of it. --Jayron32 03:55, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Great response, I would however like to add that the first Death Metal album was Slowly we rot by Obituary in 1989, from Florida, and that they were very quickly followed by Entombed from Sweden. True death metal is very different from Heavy Metal, or NWOBHM, and has lead to bands such as Gojira and Mastodon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.89.16.154 (talk) 09:09, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, impressive response. When did "heavy metal" become a common descriptor for bands, e.g. in the music press? Later than 1968-9, I think. Itsmejudith (talk) 12:05, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't know when it became common, but the very first time it was used in print in a review of music was in 1970, in This review of Humble Pie in Rolling Stone Magazine. The phrase appears twice, once describing the bands music as "heavy metal-leaden shit rock" and later as "27th rate heavy metal crap". It is quite telling that the first time it was ever used critically, it was in a negative review. Heavy metal has never been quite accepted by the mainstream press. --Jayron32 13:56, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

It's also telling that the term seems to be used in a way that suggests that the writer figures his audience is already familiar with it. We also have an article on an early metallica work that might be helpful. Matt Deres (talk) 14:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

True; often terms like this aren't coined by the writers. They are attending shows, talking to fans, and discussing music. It is quite likely that the term was being used by fans verbally, but had not yet appeared in print. Or possibly that it had been used in print, but only in some minor self-published zine which has since been lost to history. The first confirmed use of it, in print, to describe a musical style was the 1970 Rolling Stone usage above. It doesn't appear he invented the term, however. That may be unknowable. --Jayron32 15:09, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Google Book has a 1969 review of an album by "Ashkan", noting that "Bob Weston, the only member of this four-man group to demonstrate any inklings of sensitivity, spends more of his efforts contributing to the Cream/Led Zeppelin "heavy metal thunder" than he does to alleviating the noise". Evidence of the Steppenwolf lyric becoming the generic term for the genre? Warofdreams talk 15:13, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, there ya go. An earlier reference there! The Humble Pie reference was the one I had heard repeated in several documentary films on the history of Heavy metal. It was prominent in Seven Ages of Rock, for example. But it looks like it does show up earlier. Though, given what little I know of Bob Weston (guitarist), he's about as far from an influence on Heavy Metal as Rod Stewart was (OK, not true. Rod Stewart was a fairly big influence on Heavy Metal music...) But that's a clear use of the term to describe rock music prior to the Humble Pie ref. --Jayron32 15:23, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

But as Itsmejudith asks, what's possibly more interesting is not when the term was first coined but when it passed into common currency. Only then can it be said to really act as a descriptor for this kind of music. That would obviously be harder to pinpoint, though. --Viennese Waltz 15:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Heavy metal music (etymology) has some more on this, including Burroughs, an even earlier Rolling Stone quote (1968) describing the music, and some notes on how its usage changed. ---Sluzzelin talk 08:36, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I've always thought of "Helter Skelter" as the first heavy metal song. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:43, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Try this. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:17, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

You beat me to it. Rumble is definitely a contender for earliest heavy metal song (and it even got banned to boot!). When I first heard it, I was shocked at how old it was; it would sound more at home on a 1990's metal band demo tape than on something from the 1950s. Matt Deres (talk) 14:12, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Two questions about eggs.

When women have their period, does an actual egg come out?

Secondly, why don't chickens bleed when their eggs come out?

Thanks. 192.150.181.62 (talk) 02:42, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

(1) Yes. (2) Who says they don't? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:14, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

When a chicken lays an egg, it isn't shedding its uterine wall the way women do during menstruation. The laying of eggs isn't really all that analogous to menstruation; the egg itself is a zygote, which is distinct from the unfertilized ovum. --Jayron32 03:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Possibly belaboring the obvious, but the reproductive systems across major animal groupings such as mammals, birds, reptiles, fish, insectgs, etc., do not operate identically. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:41, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

To answer #1, I will say no, because it seems as though you are asking if the bleeding of menstruation is the egg -- forgive me, though, if I'm misjudging. The egg is so tiny that it's negligible -- the bleeding is the sloughing of the thickened endometrium. But yes, an actual egg (single haploid cell) comes out, but this has little to nothing to do with what we call an egg in terms of omelets and the like. Jayron answered your chicken question adequately -- but perhaps as an addendum, chicken eggs are not analogous to the single cell egg of mammals, and chickens lay eggs even if they're not fertilized, so it's not the same process as goes on in mammals. Moreover, as Jayron pointed out, birds are oviparous and have no uterus. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 05:08, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

See ovulation. Oda Mari (talk) 10:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

And to fill out the explanation of chickens laying eggs a bit since I've seen it done many times... When the egg is laid, it is moist. The shell is hard, of course, but the egg is covered in a small amount of clear liquid. The liquid evaporates in a few seconds in warm weather. Dismas|^(talk) 01:11, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Fascinating! Thank you. 192.150.181.62 (talk) 22:37, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Also - chickens *do* sometimes bleed when the egg comes out. Not only have I seen it happen for real, I have also purchased free-range eggs which have dried blood on the shells. Not loads of blood, but it can happen. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 22:57, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

90% loan facility against deposit

Hi there, I am bit confused with this statement (facility) of reputed financial organization - "90% loan facility against deposit". Does this is mean, if I invest 5000 pounds (deposit) I could also get 4,500 pounds as loan from that organization if I want?--180.234.38.215 (talk) 19:43, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

What kind of deposit and loan is it talking about? Is the statement online somewhere? The only idea I have is that it's talking about a mortage and means you can borrow 90% of the value of the property and have to pay 10% as a deposit, although it's an odd way to say that (normally you would say "90% loan to value (LTV)"). --Tango (talk) 21:02, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Based on some googling my best guess is that it's designed for cases where you lock up your money in a CD or other savings scheme where you can not withdraw the money till the term is up. It allows you to borrow up to 90% of the money you have deposited. It would be stupid to do that on purpose (you pay more in interest than you get, so you would be better off just holding on to your money), but it could be valuable if you want to invest money, but still have access to it in case of emergency. Ariel. (talk) 22:49, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Actually the reason most people do this sort of thing is in order to improve their credit rating, as I understand it. Looie496 (talk) 01:46, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Sometimes the interest on a mortgage are lower that the interest that you receive on a CD. (At least in Europe). So, it makes perfectly sense to apply for a mortgage and left your money on the CD.Quest09 (talk) 16:56, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

February 4

claddagh how to pronounce

could you help with correct pronunciation of claddagh please —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.98.85.185 (talk) 04:01, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

You are more likely to get an answer at the Language reference desk. --Anonymous, 04:27 UTC, February 4, 2011.

Or in a dictionary. --Colapeninsula (talk) 16:11, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

pot cleaning

I overcooked some noodles in a stainless steel pot so there is a thick layer of burnt carbon stuck to the bottom. I tried soaking for several days in water and in a fairly strong solution of automatic dishwashing gel, which may or may not have helped loosen it. Scrubbing away with a steel wool pad gets the stuff off, but it's quite slow and strenuous (might take hours). I'm wondering if there's a better way. I'm seeing suggestions of vinegar (acid), ammonia or baking soda (alkaline), or oven cleaner (alkaline?). I'm thinking of getting a wire brush like this and attacking the pot with an electric drill, but am not sure whether I should care about scratching up the pot's finish. That would be from a functionality perspective only, since it's already a beat-up old pot and I don't care about the cosmetics. Any advice? Thanks. 71.141.88.54 (talk) 04:05, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I use a drill all the time for that. Use a cup type plastic grit brush and you won't damage the metal much (not a wire one, and certainly not knotted steel - or you'll make holes in the pot). Like this one: http://www.harborfreight.com/2-inch-80-grit-shaft-mounted-cup-brush-91367.html (also a cup is a lot easier to handle than a wheel). Put a small amount of water in the pot to catch the dust, and rinse it out when it gets too dark to see where you need to sand. It makes some sanding swirls on the bottom of the pot, but nothing serious. Ariel. (talk) 05:17, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Try sodium bicarbonate and soapy water. Put them in the pot and boil the water for a while. Be careful that the water would easily boil over. You can scrape the layer with a wooden spatula while boiling if you want to. After boiling 10 to 15 minutes, leave the pot till the water gets cold or for several hours. Then wash the pot with a sponge. Repeat the process, if there's some carbon left. Oda Mari (talk) 06:12, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

@Oda Mari & OP - I do similar but using hot water and a large dollop of washing up liquid (I don't boil it but use boiling water from the kettle) and leave it with a lid on for half hour - pretty much wipes clean most pans I have... gazhiley.co.uk 10:14, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

@Ariel "I use a drill all the time for that" with deepest respect, don't you think more care with your cooking might help avoid the hard work, uses of earth resources and exposure to potentially carcinogenic material. Caesar's Daddy (talk) 07:22, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

What in the world could you possibly be talking about Caesar? I should clarify I mean "I do it all the time [that I burn a pot]." I don't burn pots very often, but when I do the drill works very nicely. What carcinogenic material could you possibly be referring to? And using a drill uses probably 1/10, maybe even 1/100 of the energy of the hot water methods other people are suggesting. Ariel. (talk) 15:01, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

My theory is, if it doesn't wash off with that much scrubbing, it isn't going to come off in the next food you cook. It doesn't always work, though. Try using an oven or microwave instead. 148.197.121.205 (talk) 09:09, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

The pot cleaning task is similar to decarbonising an engine cylinder head, where the head is often cast from light alloy that is liable to damage. Here are some tips collected from motoring sites: "the carbon deposits should be removed from the combustion spaces using a scraper and a wire brush fitted into an electric drill[1]...With an exhaust valve the deposits are very much harder and those on the head may need a rub on coarse emery cloth to remove them. An old woodworking chisel is a useful tool to remove the worst of the head deposits. Remove most of the carbon deposits from the combustion areas and valve heads by using a soft non-scratching tool, like the round end of a brass door key.[2] Carefully use a blunt screwdriver (or something) for more stubborn deposits...Polish with metal polish (to slow down the future build up of carbon). Scrape away all traces of carbon from the cylinder head, piston barrel, using a soft metal scraper. A final clean with wire wool and oil should remove the last of the carbon.[3] We can add a solution that will help removing light deposits from the piston. It is called Yamaha Ringfree[4]. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:17, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

You could try a mixture of Sodium Hydroxide 15% as the caustic agent and 2-Butoxyethanol 5% as the solvent. Or buy a branded product like “Carbon Off” which is the same thing but ready mixed. Also handy for barbecues and things.--Aspro (talk) 17:27, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the responses, I'll try baking soda first. Is Carbon Off similar to oven cleaner? I did find some online vendors for it and will see if I can get it locally. 71.141.88.54 (talk) 09:03, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Usually when I do this I use a strong solution of biological washing powder and about an inch of water in the bottom of the pan. Heat gently over a low heat for a couple of hours. Pour the resulting gunk down the sink and you should be able to remove the remaining carbon deposit with a scourer or blunt knife. --TammyMoet (talk) 14:01, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Unidentified automobile

Unidentified automobile

The photo to the right is categorized in "Unidentified automobiles." Do you know what automobile it is? -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 12:20, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

It looks like a 1929 Lincon from this image, the front bumper is distinctive. Mikenorton (talk) 12:56, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

On looking further, it seems that Lincolns from as far back as 1923 had this distinctive bumper [5]. Mikenorton (talk) 16:15, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I went with the Lincoln Model L category. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 11:42, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Coin nominal values

Why is it not good to have both 20 cent and 25 cent coins in a single currency? --84.61.176.167 (talk) 15:21, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Why aren't there any 2, 20, or 200 yen coins? --84.61.176.167 (talk) 15:21, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Why weren't there any 0.20 or 0.25 DM coins? --84.61.176.167 (talk) 15:21, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

In modern currency, it is rare to have denominations which do not divide evenly into larger denominations. In modern American currency, nearly every piece of currency is a whole-number fraction of every larger piece of currency. So, 5 pennies makes a nickel, five nickles makes a quarter, four quarters makes a dollar, and so on. The exceptions are the dime and the ten dollar bill; but they persist because they provide convenient multiples of ten. Anyone having worked a cash register in the U.S. will confirm, however, that the ten dollar bill is a pretty superfluous currency; its often the bill you have the least of in your drawer and you don't miss it if you run out since two fives aren't that much of a bigger deal. In the U.S., the same sort of redundancy is what caused pieces like the half dollar and the two-dollar bill to all but disappear; they don't provide a substantial advantage over the quarter and one-dollar bill in convenience, and having too many denominations gets confusing. So currency systems have to balance having enough coins and bills to be useful for making change, but not so many as to be confusing. It didn't always used to be so well organized, in pre-decimal money systems there were often a multitude of coins which didn't work out well mathematically with other coins in the system. The most famous I can think of is the 21-shilling Guinea coin which was used alongside the 20-shilling Pound sterling coin for a long time. --Jayron32 15:40, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Is that true? The Pound Sterling uses 1p (£0.01), 2p, 5p, 10p, 20p, 50p, £1, £2, £5, £10, £20, £50, (£100 [only some issuers]). The values double (approximately) each time, as per preferred_number#1-2-5_series. The Euro, Australian dollar, and New Zealand dollar use the same scheme. Coming back to the OP's question, what would the point of both 20c and 25c coints, when you can just use 20c + 5c. BTW, the Deutch Mark hasn't been a valid currency since 2002. CS Miller (talk) 15:56, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

You are using the decimalized pound sterling. Prior to Decimal day the exhange rate was 240d = 20 s = 1L, or 240 pence = 20 shillings = 1 pound sterling. The guinea was 21 shillings, or a "Quid and a Bob". There were other odd coinage, such as the farthing (1/4 penny), the Groat (4 shillings or 1/5 pound) and the Crown (5 shillings or 1/4 pound) . --Jayron32 16:21, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure a groat was 4d, not 4s, and hence a third of a shilling. The article agrees with me. 212.183.128.47 (talk) 16:53, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

And of course then we did have a florin and a half crown, respectively a tenth and an eighth of a pound, not to mention the threpenny bit. Mikenorton (talk) 17:02, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I have this vague memory from the days of Australia's conversion from pounds, shillings and pence to dollars and cents (1966) that there was some international standard, or at least a guideline, that recommended that coinage and notes come in 1s, 2s and 5s at each level of currency. This meant that the ideal system would have 1c, 2c, 5c, 10c, 20c, 50c, $1, $2, $5, $10, $20, $50, $100.... Australia's conversion was initially limited to just issuing new coins and notes that exactly matched the old ones, but the gaps were filled in the years soon after. HiLo48 (talk) 17:28, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Answering the precise question: When two coins are too close in size, confusion results. Thus the US $3 coin was short-lived, as it was too close to the $2.50 coin. At the time of the UK conversion, old crowns were worth 25np. And commemorative 25p crowns were issued after decimalization. Bothe the US and Canada have had 20 cent coins, by the way. The US has the distinction of producing dollar coins which were specifically not legal tender in the US, as they had too much silver in them. Collect (talk) 17:52, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Clarification: Collect is referring to the Trade Dollar, a weird US coin intended for export whose legal tender status was revoked in the US after a while (see the article for details). The article on the US 20-cent piece is Twenty-cent piece (United States coin), which actually lacks any discussion of why the piece, which was only minted for two years, was never accepted by the public. Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:16, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Having both a 20c and a 25c from 1876, I can tell you they are not all that easy to tell apart at a glance. Googlemeister (talk) 20:51, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Note that his has also been asked at the Mathematics Refdek - My answer from there, summarized is that the 1,2,5,10 split seen most often is a compromise between a binary logarithmic scale (easiest way to make change) and a desire to match a decimal number system. Outliers, such as the US Quarter, have pre-decimalization historical reasons. As for the yen, the article notes that originally it had the 1,2,5,10 split, but mostly at single digit and sub-yen denominations. With inflation, Japan seems to have settled on a 1,5,10 system, with the 2000 yen note being primarily commemorative, and rare in the market. I'm not sure why the 2x denominations fell out of favor in Japan. -- 174.24.195.38 (talk) 22:16, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I can't comment on Japan or Germany but in Malaysia there was a 20 ringgit normal note a long time ago but this was abandoned. As for lower values, there was a 1 ringgit note before the 1 ringgit coin and then later 2 ringgit note (I think the 2 ringgit note was introduced partially because people were complaining about it being bothersome to carry/deal with so many heavy coins) was introduced and until these were both abandoned and the 1 ringgit note reintroduced (I think people still weren't happy with the coin issue). The 20 sen coin still remains. (The 1 sen coin has now been abandoned but there was never a 2 sen coin.) From my experience particularly when you are talking about notes instead of coins the absence of the 2x isn't really that big a deal. Sure it's slightly more unwieldy but you also have less types of notes to worry about. (And Malaysia is still a cash oriented society.) Perhaps one of the only issues is ATMs tend to either give out RM50 or RM50 and RM10 notes and the RM50 are not favoured by some small traders. Nil Einne (talk) 14:58, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Looking for a Website

Helloo, im looking for a huge music database wwebsite, it works like that if you Search for a specific song by someone you can find the song and covers by other bands/people, its a huge database of songs and other versions of them :( all help really appreciated :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.220.99.211 (talk) 23:18, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

http://www.allmusic.com Cheers. --Jayron32 23:29, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks but this is not the website it's similar, but more about covers of the original songs, and it has youtube link of every song on it. 85.220.99.211 (talk) 23:47, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

http://www.discogs.com/ ....? Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:56, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

No, It's not a vinyl website, It's more like you search for a song and there comes up the song you searched for and then a list of Songs Sampled of that particular song! 85.220.99.211 (talk) 00:58, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Not covers but samples http://www.whosampled.com/ meltBanana 13:33, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

flat faced golf sticks.

why do all golf sticks have flat faces,(putters,irons,hybrids etc.) except drivers, and to a lesser degree, fairway woods? Even professionals and clubmakers seem confused about the reason. The curve on the face of the latter from one side to the other,( i am not referring to top to bottom) must surely create a bad result unless the ball is always struck with the centre of the club head,(sweet spot) on every occassion, which as any average golfer knows is not the case. regards....ringoron. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ringoron (talk • contribs) 23:59, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

one word. schyler (talk) 02:29, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

A golfer uses a wood when range is more important than accuracy. The slight convex (bulge) face shape of its head makes the motion imparted to the ball dependent more on the head momentum vector than the angle of the face. BTW fiddlers use sticks but golfers use clubs.

February 5

Google voice

If I have a friend in the UK and she gets a google voice number, will it be free to text her if I am in the US?Accdude92 (talk) 04:04, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Google Voice is not available outside the Good Ol' yet, as far as the rest of the world know. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 07:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Pre-DADT Repeal, Conscription of Gay Men

Recently, the US military repealed their Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy. But hypothetically, let us assume that there had been a general conscription in the US prior to the repeal of DADT (say, for WWIII), would one be able to get out of the draft by claiming that they are openly homosexual?

Acceptable (talk) 05:09, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I guess so, because such a person would immediately be in breach of the "don't tell" part of the requirement. HiLo48 (talk) 05:38, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Far as I know that was true in the Vietnam era and prior, along with the old saw that straight men might pretend to be gay in order to avoid the draft (as with Phil Ochs' song, "The Draft Dodger Rag"). Women weren't drafted, of course, but lesbians who volunteered had to keep it quiet or they could be expelled. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:52, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

In theory presuming the law didn't change, probably. However from what I've heard (having trouble finding an RS but [6] has some discussion), the US military's tolerance has varied depending on how desperate they were and it wasn't unknown for them to disbelieve such claims and try to force people to serve anyway. (I guess if you go around telling everyone you saw that you're gay you may get out presuming you weren't murdered beforehand.) Of course once they weren't so desperate, it also wasn't unknown for them to kick out those who had volunteered and served honourably, wanted to continue serve and had practiced some discretion. As BB has said, this has been the case for most of the times when the draft was in effect although the law has varied tending to be stricter in the past. See also Sexual orientation and the United States military. Notably, being kicked out for being gay was not necessarily a good thing for you career prospects, see Section 8 (military) and Blue discharge so I suspect wasn't necessarily seen as a better option then say running to Canada. Nil Einne (talk) 07:02, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

According to our article,

The act specifies that service members who disclose they are homosexual or engage in homosexual conduct shall be separated (discharged) except when a service member's conduct was "for the purpose of avoiding or terminating military service" or when it "would not be in the best interest of the armed forces" (10 U.S.C. § 654(e)).

So it seems that they thought of that :-/. I guess what it boils down to is that they'd kick you out if they wanted to, but not just because you wanted them to. Like Bugs, I have heard of people pretending to be gay to avoid service in earlier conflicts; I don't know how well it worked. --Trovatore (talk) 07:06, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

This source offers further clues. On pages 7-8 it says:

' ... during wartime, the military services can, and have, instituted actions “to suspend certain laws relating to ... separation” that can limit administrative discharges. These actions, known as “stop-loss,” allow the services to minimize the disruptive effects of personnel turnover during a crisis. However, administrative discharges for homosexual conduct normally are not affected by stop-loss. It can be speculated that a claim of homosexuality during a crisis may be viewed skeptically, but under the policy would require an investigation. Stop-loss as implemented requires an investigation to determine if the claim is bona fide or being used for some other reason, such as avoiding deployment overseas and/or to a combat zone. If, following an investigation, such a claim were found to be in violation of the law on homosexual conduct, the services could not use “stop-loss” to delay an administrative discharge. In practice, it is quite possible for an individual, during a crisis, to claim to be a homosexual and to be deployed while awaiting the results of an investigation. Likewise, a claim made during a non-crisis situation would more likely be dealt with in a routine manner, leading to a discharge.'

-- Karenjc 10:56, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Foreign Policy magazine December 4, 2010 describes the Turkish military rigorous proof requirement by anyone applying for exemption from service by claiming to be gay: "In personal experiences recounted for Foreign Policy magazine in December, some gay men seeking exemptions were ordered to verify their claims by producing witnesses to their homosexual acts, or by photographing themselves fully engaged -- and to be persuasive to authorities, the conscript had to be depicted in the "receiving" position in sexual intercourse."[7] -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 12:21, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

How close can you safely stand behind a claymore?

Since claymore mines explode in a unidirectional arc, how close can you safely stand behind a claymore mine You can safely stand 8ft behind a claymore mine and be free from all debris. Recommended distance is 10ft yet 8 will be sufficient. Try it out and see for yourself. Thanks, Acceptable (talk) 06:41, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The article M18 Claymore anti-personnel mine suggests that your description is incorrect, but I recommend you read the article. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:50, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Nope, the description/assumption is correct. The question after it bizarre. Without knowing why one would stand behind a claymore mine it is difficult to think of situations in which one would do so. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 07:02, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The article claims the explosion is directional. I interpreted the question to mean it sprayed 360. If it doesn't, in theory you could stand an inch behind it and be OK. The fact it's triggered by remote control might tell you something, though. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Unidirectional, Bugs, would mean 'in a singular direction'. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 07:07, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

OK, in a "unidirectional arc" would indeed square with the article. So is it safe to stand behind one? Is the remote triggering done merely to catch the enemy off-guard? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:09, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Does this item need a "Don't try this at home" disclaimer? HiLo48 (talk) 07:24, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Only if it's possible to buy a claymore mine at your local WalMart or Ace Hardware. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:28, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, I would have no chance in Australia (we don't even have WalMart!), but in America.... HiLo48 (talk) 07:31, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Claymore mines are strictly military weapons, so they're not publicly available. I think the best you could do is to buy a bunch of Jiffy Pops and line them up in a bank, propped up, and fired with sterno cans. The enemy would laugh hysterically at such a lame joke, and would eat the "shrapnel", and then soon die because it was laced with cyanide. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:39, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Considering its an explosives based product and with the fact that it is meant to be remote detonated, I'm sure standing immediately behind it isn't a sound idea. Machines and explosives are both prone to error either thru manufacturing errors or operator error. Is the OP planing on holding it like a gun when detonating it? If nothing else, it seems like the recoil from the explosion would probably do significant harm to anyone "behind" the device, lol. Heiro 08:37, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

It may make for an interesting plot point in a spy novel. Dismas|^(talk) 08:41, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Here's what you want. "You can also expect secondary fragments to rebound up to 100 meters behind the mine." Second to last sentence. Vimescarrot (talk) 10:01, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Aha. That's also their effective range. So at least 100m away would be recommended. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:13, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Or you can put it at the top of the stairs and snipe from the small the room with the window... schyler (talk) 14:26, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The Swedish Försvarsladdning 21 is a type of Claymore mine. It has a 50 meter blasting cap wire, which means that you will have to be really close to set it off. The manual stresses that you should detonate it from cover, however. In peacetime, the safety distances are larger. SäkI Spräng 10, one of the Swedish military safety manuals, gives the safety distance as 200 m behind and to the sides of the mine, 400 m in front of it. That's the distance where you can be sure to stand safely when a claymore is detonated. Of course, I suppose there are many models that are called Claymores, and they will all have their own specifications.Sjö (talk) 18:10, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The primary reference is FM23-23 which states:

b. Danger Area of Backblast and Secondary Missiles (figs. 4 and 24). Within an area of 16 meters to the rear and sides of the mine, backblast can cause injury by concussion (ruptured eardrums) and create a secondary missile hazard.

(1) Friendly troops are prohibited to the rear and sides of the mine within a radius of 16 meters.

(2) The minimum safe operating distance from the mine is 16 meters. At this distance, and regardless of how the mine is employed, the operator should be in a foxhole, behind cover, or lying prone in a depression. The operator and all friendly troops within 100 meters of the mine must take cover to prevent being injured by flying secondary objects such as sticks, stones, and pebbles.

Having actually deployed and fired a Claymore, I can confirm that there are backblast effects. The casing of the mine very nicely illustrates Newton's third law. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 18:25, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Ah, thank you; this was what I was looking for. In video games (which I know don't offer the most realistic portrayals) such as Call of Duty, the player is safe anywhere behind a detonating mine. In other words, the player can stand an inch behind a Claymore and not be injured. Acceptable (talk) 20:28, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

tharakan/mannadiar's arrival to kerala.

Dear sirs, obrahmins.

But they had to migrate to the kozhikode samoothiri's kingdom facing some sort of harassement from the pandyaraja of tamilnadu.Samoothiri promised to protect them and allowedthem to live in some parts of Malabar like palakkad(especially in thiruvazhiyode, mangode,peringode pulappatta angadippuram in malappuram and chittoor in palakkad. but these people were told to disguise their identity by removing the pinkuduma and the poonool. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.153.87.148 (talk) 11:12, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, that is a very good answer, but I am unclear what your question is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caesar's Daddy (talk • contribs) 16:24, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

It's about Indian history, possibly identifying a disagreement with one of our articles. Any experts in Indian history around? Itsmejudith (talk) 19:25, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

It may relate to the article Thachil Matthoo Tharakan. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:20, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Aircraft/Airline Safety

2 questions. First, which country has the worst record of aircraft safety? Secondly, how does a destination country assure itself of the air worthiness of an incoming aircraft? Thanks. 84.13.75.34 (talk) 11:57, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Each National aviation authority issues airworthiness certificates which may be of type standard or special. See the linked articles for details. These certificates apply to particular aircraft while airport authorities may choose to ban a particular airline. Wikipedia has a summary of Aviation accidents and incidents.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 20:07, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Interesting question. I suppose that to be useful, you'd need to limit the question to "in the last decade" or two decades, or something, because airlines were flourishing in some countries in 1930, while other countries had no airlines until decades later. You should also clarify whether by "worst record" you mean total number of "incidents", or total number of fatalities or injuries; or whether you mean on a per capita basis, which seems like a better measurement to me. Anyway, Skytrax maintains ratings of airlines, which seem to be a mix of safety and service quality; and I didn't find an accumulated country list. Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:39, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Geo coordinates for SS Edmund Fitzgerald wreckage

At source question, an editor is looking for help in finding a reference to geo coordinates for a sunken ship to help move an article to FA status. The wreckage of the SS Edmund Fitzgerald could lie in US waters, Canidian waters, or both (affecting legal rights to the wreckage). If you can sleuth out a reliable source for the geo coordinates, that would be great. Also see Recent "900 feet from the border" addition. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 12:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

This site states

The Edmund Fitzgerald Rest .0555 Statue Miles - .4392 Nautical Miles - 2669 Feet - 889.74 Yards from the US / Canada line. Center of wreck site - 46 59.8N - 85 06.7W / 46 59 48N - 85 06 42W

I'm looking for corroboration or a listing on a chart (this site lists NOAA Chart 14962). --Quartermaster (talk) 15:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The coordinates are reported in "Marine accident report SS Edmund Fitzgerald sinking in Lake Superior on November 10, 1975" (PDF). National Transportation Safety Board. 1978-05-04. p. 2. Retrieved 2010-11-19. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)--Wpwatchdog (talk) 15:19, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Best answer. Ya beat me by literally seconds! I would say that the NTSB report is about as authoritative a source one could find. --Quartermaster (talk) 00:44, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

• Thanks for the help. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 08:34, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

But 0.055 statute miles is 0.044 nautical miles, 267 feet and 89 yards. Is is actually 0.55 statue miles from the border? Googlemeister (talk) 19:30, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Missing coin nominal values

Why aren't there any 2, 20, or 200 yen coins? --84.62.198.234 (talk) 15:20, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Why weren't there any 0.20 or 0.25 DM coins? --84.62.198.234 (talk) 15:20, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The same as the last time you asked. Scroll up or use Ctrl + F (search for "yen") to find the question and its responses. Vimescarrot (talk) 15:27, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

According to this page, historically the binary system and the duodecimal system were not used in Japan and 5 was/is the cornerstone of abacus which has been widely used in Japan. This is the G-translation. Oda Mari (talk) 09:37, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Why should there have been? Not every currency has to have all possible nominal values that can exist, not even all nominal values that are commonly used. You could just as well ask why there are no 3 cent or 30 cent coins in either the Euro or the US dollar. When the coins of the Finnish markka were changed for the last time in its history, the 5 penni coin was abandoned as being worth too little, but the 20 penni coin was also abandoned, even though there still was a 10 penni coin. JIP | Talk 19:02, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

The US did, in fact, have a three cent coin (the "trime"). And three cent paper money as well. Collect (talk) 19:31, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Drat, I didn't know that. I guess it comes from not being American. But my point still stands. JIP | Talk 19:32, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry about that. I would wager that less then 5% of Americans know about the 3 cent coin as they stopped making them in 1889. Googlemeister (talk) 15:56, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

There are also 3 Euro coins, although these are, I believe, strictly commemorative. TomorrowTime (talk) 19:36, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I guess I should have mentioned 31 cent (Euro or US) coins or something instead, to avoid people focusing on misunderstood historical details rather than my actual point, then. Now how long will it take for someone to mention that there has been a 31 cent coin somewhere in the world? JIP | Talk 19:40, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

patron saint

Who is the patron saint of the Green Bay Packers, the Superbowl or American football in general? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.125.141.163 (talk) 17:14, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't believe there is any such. Saint Sebastian probably gets closest, as the patron saint of athletes. Various figures might be termed the "patron saint" of the categories you listed, but that will only be for rhetorical effect. Our article on the history of the Green Bay Packers will suggest several candidates such as Curly Lambeau or Vince Lombardi. Our article on the Pro Football Hall of Fame may help for candidates at the larger scope. — Lomn 17:22, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Note that there is a Green Bay fan who dresses up in green and gold Bishop attire and goes by the nickname "St. Vince" (After Vince Lombardi - see [8]). I don't think he's recognized as a patron saint by any formal religion, though. -- 174.24.195.38 (talk) 21:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

IF you don't think Packer fandom isn't a formal religion, you haven't met anyone from Wisconsin then have you? --Jayron32 02:32, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

If I were a Steelers fan, I might joke that it was Saint Jude, the patron saint of lost causes and desperate situations. But I truly have no interest one way or the other, to be honest. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:36, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

"Lost causes"? Maybe today, but not in general, as the Packers have more NFL championships than any other team. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:41, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

31-25 victory over the Steelers suggests that The Pack is Back! DOR (HK) (talk) 04:17, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

The true "lost cause" was some fans who drove from Pittsburgh ot Dallas only to find that their tickets were not being honored in this billion dollar stadium, due to some glitch over the seating layout. As for the "patron saint", it seems like the Packers have quite a few angels watching over them. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:59, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

The patron saint of the Green Bay Packers, and possibly of the NFL, is obviously Vince Lombardi, and you will find many Americans who will argue that he was indeed a saint, despite what any church might say. Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:24, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Is that Saint Vince Lombardi, or Saint Vince of Lombardi? Googlemeister (talk) 14:45, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

School years numbering system in the United Kingdom

I'm wondering if anyone remembers which year the school years numbering system changed in the United Kingdom (from 1st year, 2nd year, etc, to the more American style of Year 7, Year 8, and so on). My reason for asking is that I came across this edit, and I know it is wrong because the system had already been introduced at my school by the time I left in Summer 1990. I seem to recall it being introduced the previous September (1989), but am not 100% certain. Can anyone help? Cheers TheRetroGuy (talk) 19:18, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

My memory follows yours. Instead of starting my 4th year of junior school in September 1989, I became a Year 6 pupil. But: my catchment Secondary school did not start using the new notation until September 1990. The new year notation followed the newly introduced Key Stage education as part of the National Curriculum which was enacted as part of the Education Reform Act 1988. Whether it was up to the LEA's to determine when to change, I don't know - but it seems there were differences even within an LEA area. I would imagine that September 1990 was the 'you have to be doing this by now' date. Nanonic (talk) 19:38, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

A minor point: the usual American term is grade, not year. Elementary schools ("grade schools") run from first grade (roughly age 6) through eighth grade; high school, ninth through twelfth. (Junior high and middle school are variations.) Americans will also tend to say "tenth grade" where Canadians would say "grade 10." In my experience, it's very unusual to hear terms like "Year 6" in an American school unless it's deliberately copying a British model. --- OtherDave (talk) 01:15, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I think TheRetroGuy meant by "more American style" that the pattern of numbering was somewhat similar, not that the overall terminology was identical. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 09:33, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I was referring to the numbers rather than the actual names so apologies if I caused any confusion. TheRetroGuy (talk) 22:00, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

When I left school in 2005 the year 7s were almost always still referred to as first years, though I think that was unofficial. Meanwhile, the rules, which had not been changed in a while, still mentioned the rights of fifth year pupils. Completely useless and of no interest to anyone, but I am running out of ways to put things off this afternoon. 148.197.121.205 (talk) 14:19, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Also depends on the school.I was at a public school and they used the first to fifth form system(and still do.) My first school had its own completely bonkers system.I'm just disappointed I left in the first year-the pleasure of being asked what school year you're in and replying 'The Great Erasmus' is one of life's little joys... Lemon martini (talk) 15:38, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

It came in with the National Curriulum; independent schools like Christ's Hospital didn't have to follow the National Curriculum so didn't change immediately. I don't think anyone actually made the state schools change either, hence the discrepancies mentioned above. Itsmejudith (talk) 19:23, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

In the state system, it's also slightly bizarre that we still have a Sixth Form or even a Sixth Form College, without having a third, fourth or fifth form (or year). One of those strange anomolies that we Brits like to encumber ourselves with. Alansplodge (talk) 09:24, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

"Manny Penny"

I've heard twice now on the Series Entourage characters saying they were going to a "manny penny". That is phonetic, and the best I have been able to make out from what I heard. I googled that and got nowhere, so obviously it is not the right spelling of whatever it is. Maybe someone known what this is about? What the expression I've been hearing/mishearing is? Thanks.--141.155.143.65 (talk) 20:44, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Manicure/Pedicure -- 174.24.195.38 (talk) 20:59, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Hm. Is that where the secretary in James Bond got her name from?

A closer spelling would be "mani/pedi" (the contraction for manicure and pedicure), pronounced "manny peddy." I can see how you might hear it as "manny penny." --- OtherDave (talk) 01:17, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

February 6

Are there any other places online like the Wikipedia Reference Desk?

I like the Reference Desk because I can easily ask a question without giving my email address and exchanging emails with people. I also like the fact that there are always several people to look at my question and try to respond to it. Are there any other websites where I can ask a question and get an answer just by coming back to see what other people have written?174.131.43.140 (talk) 03:58, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

A number of similarly sites are listed here. They vary in quality, to say the least. --Mr.98 (talk) 04:04, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I use the answerbank quite a lot, which isn't listed there.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:03, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Quora is one which is currently generating a lot of interest (mainly in tech circles at the minute). However it's still in beta, and you theoretically need an account to access it, although if you see a quora question in your search results, you can use the link to bypass the login page and read the answers. --Kateshortforbob _talk 17:13, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

The Stack Exchange Network has a number of question and answer sites on different subjects (41 of them at present). --ColinFine (talk) 18:14, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you so very much for all the suggestions!174.131.58.121 (talk) 00:31, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

I like http://reddit.com/r/askscience for science questions. There's a fairly good culture of not answering if you don't know the answer, a trait our own Reference Desk could use more of. --Sean 19:33, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

See User:Wavelength/About Internet & WWW/Ask an expert.

—Wavelength (talk) 19:57, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Leslie Nielsen and cigarettes

Did Leslie Nielsen smoke? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.234.170.202 (talk) 07:32, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

You asked this before and it's an identical question that can be found at several places on the internet. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 09:26, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

two well known historical figures who are known for separate achievements but have extensive interaction

For example Kublai Khan was Emperor of the Mongol Empire and Marco Polo was an explorer but they had a long interaction.

Any other examples come to mind?

Coolxcool (talk) 10:40, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I assume by "separate" you mean completely different areas? Because there are loads of people who have had long correspondences within subject. Indeed, even with that restricted definition the list may still be very long: figures like Voltaire were voluminous letter writers^{[citation needed]}, interacting with numerous celebrities of the time. - Jarry1250 ^{[Who? Discuss.]} 11:10, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I was just about to ask for the same clarification. The first duo that popped to mind were C. S. Lewis and JRR Tolkein who were close friends but both writers. And adding to my confusion, you have duos like Christopher Columbus and Queen Isabella. Both noted for different things, both historical figures, but the basis for how we know them today was their business relationship. If it hadn't been Columbus, it would have been someone else that Isabella got to sail. Therefore, a duo was all but assured. Dismas|^(talk) 11:11, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

"Separate" is hard to pinpoint. But what I mean is most known for achievements that are not tied together. Kublai Khan is known as the emperor of a vast territory. Marco Polo is known for traveling across vast territory. Marco Polo spent years in the court of Kublai Khan so the interaction is much more extensive than correspondence. However their separate notability doesn't depend on their interaction together. I think the notability of Queen Isabella to a great extent is based on her connection to Columbus.

Coolxcool (talk) 11:47, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

If you think Isabella's notability is primarily based on her connection to Columbus you probably haven't read the article or aren't much of a student of history of that era. The expulsion of the Jews from Spain, her role in the inquisition, the conclusion of the Reconquista, were all some of the major events in Europe during this era. To quote from the current Wikipedia article:

Spain was united, the crown power was centralized, the reconquista was successfully concluded, the groundwork for the most dominant military machine of the next century and a half was laid, a legal framework was created, the church reformed. Even without the benefit of the American expansion, Spain would have been a major European power.

--Quartermaster (talk) 13:16, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Yoko and John. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 17:45, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Albert Einstein and Arnold Schoenberg had enough of a relationship for someone to write a book about it. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 18:39, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

John Maynard Keynes and Ludwig Wittgenstein. Itsmejudith (talk) 19:19, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Actor Tommy Lee Jones and politician Al Gore spring to mind as well, as do former American football coach and analyst Lee Corso and actor Burt Reynolds. In both of those examples, the pair were college rooomates who have maintained a lifelong friendship. --Jayron32 20:56, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Addendum: This article at Cracked.com has a list of several other pairs of acquaintances who have no reason to be acquaintences, based on their career paths. My favorite from the list is George Romero and Fred Rogers. --Jayron32 21:00, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, perhaps the most remarkable example is Aristotle and Alexander the Great. Looie496 (talk) 21:14, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Marilyn and JFK. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:10, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Gloria Swanson and Joseph Kennedy, Sr.. Corvus cornix_talk 22:32, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

On the sinister side of philosophy and power we have Wittgenstein and Hitler (if the author of The Jew of Linz is to be believed). --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 22:14, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

The argument is just that they were at school together, not that they interacted afterwards. They were two years apart at school, though. Itsmejudith (talk) 12:09, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Andy Warhol and Paulette Goddard. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 03:00, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Cats and onions

I often test my cat to see what he likes and what he doesn't like. Today I discovered that he likes the smell of a large yellow onion. I would have thought he would take one sniff and run in the opposite direction, but no, it interests him and he enjoys smelling it. Any idea why this is? Viriditas (talk) 11:16, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Please take the onions away from your cat! No idea why your cat likes the smell of onions though. Dismas|^(talk) 11:19, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I know. But why would he be attracted to a dangerous vegetable? Any ideas? Viriditas (talk) 11:21, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Dogs sometimes like to drink radiator fluid, which is poisonous... and in a related story, humans like to eat donuts. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:40, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

When I was a little kid, my parents were constantly warning me not to eat wild berries (granted, most of which probably weren't actually poisonous). It seems like exactly the kind of thing I would have done, had they not told me. Falconus^{p t c} 19:08, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

The cat doesn't know it is dangerous. Cat evolution likely did not expose them to many onions, so they probably don't have any innate reason to avoid them. --Mr.98 (talk) 20:25, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

9 hours and no one has said curiosity killed the cat...? schyler (talk) 20:38, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I hope the expression isn't dying out... It's a nice one :( Rimush (talk) 21:53, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Our cats used to regularly eat stew which had onions in it. They didn't eat the bits of onion, but the gravy never seemed to do them any harm. They also drank copious amounts of milk. They lived to 16 or 17, and were happy (well, they purred a lot) and active (regularly bringing home gifts of birds, rats, shrews and the like, as well as beating up any insufficiently respectful dogs they met). I do wonder sometimes about the accuracy of some of the online "advice" one reads about feeding pets, especially one like that linked to above which praises premium pet foods. DuncanHill (talk) 10:04, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Would you feel better with a link to the ASPCA's web site? I posted the first link because it was the first result that was handy and it said what I knew it should about onions. Dismas|^(talk) 10:57, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Strangely, the same site suggests milk gives pets "...diarrhea or other digestive upset." Astronaut (talk) 00:46, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

The best advice on what a specific pet should eat, should come from your veterinarian, as they will have a history of your pet's health issues, if any. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:20, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Cat's come from Northern Africa and onions apparently come from "central asia", according to the article, so in the wild there would have been very little exposure. (Never mind the fact that onions are roots and cat's don't go digging for vegetables.) There would be no reason for them to have evolved a fear or dislike of them.

So probably he was just curious about a new smell. It's an interesting enough smell, even to us humans who can barely smell anything. It's pretty hard to predict which smells a cat will find interesting verses unpleasant. APL (talk) 17:09, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Not nitpicking, just incredibly curious, APL. How come plural cats qualify for an apostrophe where the other plurals (onions, roots, humans, verses) don't? -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 19:57, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

They demand it. APL (talk) 22:32, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

That's how I would explain it, too, and it seems entirely valid and sensible from the point-of-view of evolution by natural selection. I wonder if that sort of thing has ever been used as an argument against the notion of Intelligent design, though. Does anyone know what a Creationist's explanation would be for animals not having an aversion to things (in nature) that are bad for them? WikiDao ☯ 20:12, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

You cannot use reason to convince people out of a position they did not arrive at via reason. There's absolutely no point in trying to reason young earth creationists out of their position. It is quite past the point of lost cause. Cut your losses, and work on educating people who care about getting it right. --Jayron32 22:14, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Besides, it works either way. I could easily have said "Cat's are designed to live in a region with no onions. Efficiency must argue against giving animals instincts they have no earthly use for."

P.S.: Jack, I actually typed that wrong by instinct, just now. I don't know why I feel compelled to give plural cats an apostrophe.

APL (talk) 22:37, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

February 7

Hot Water Heater issue

My hot water heater used to be able to fill the entire bathtub, now it on fills a quarter of it with hot water. What is wrong with it?Accdude92 (talk) 01:26, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Off the top of my head (non-authoritative) if it's an old water heater it may have filled up with sediment. Particles in your water accumulate and literally fill the tank up, leaving less space for water. --Quartermaster (talk) 01:33, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

That makes since, because the faucet gets clauged up with sediment, and losses pressure. Is there any way to fix it without a new heater?Accdude92 (talk) 01:36, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

There is (should be) a valve at the bottom on the tank, often it's made of plastic. Attach a garden hose to it, and run it into a drain that is lower than the tank. Turn off the gas to the heater, including the pilot. Turn off the incoming water, open the drain valve, and open any hot water tap in the house (to let air in). This will cause gravity to drain the entire tank. When it's empty, cycle the incoming water on and off to try to blast any sediment on the bottom of the tank out the drain. Keep working on it till the water is clear. The tank will be much lighter, so be careful not to move it and damage your pipes. Then turn the drain valve off and the incoming valve on and refill it - leave the hot water tap on (to let air out) till water starts to come out of it. I'm sure there are videos and step by step instructions online if you search for "flush hot water tank". Ariel. (talk) 09:03, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

WARNING If a water heater is drained while the heat is on, the tank can be destroyed if gas fired. Edison (talk) 20:08, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Good point! Thanks. I edited my instructions. 05:47, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

(To clarify — is the problem that the flow stops entirely after you draw a quarter tub of hot water, or is it just that the water that comes out after the first quarter-tub or so is cold?) If you have an electric water heater, there may be a problem with an element or thermostat. Many electric heaters have two elements, one at the bottom of the tank, and one somewhere in the top half. If the lower element has stopped working (either the element itself or the lower thermostat is broken), then the upper element will tend to only heat the top half (or so) of the tank. Hot water will tend to float on top of the cold water, and once the top half is warm the thermostat on the upper element will shut it off. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:49, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

It is one of those old gas ones. And to answer your question, the water gets cold.Accdude92 (talk) 02:53, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

I had that happen with a rented gas water heater. I called the company and they replaced it, and I asked how it could fail in this way. As I recall, the explanation was to the effect that, to ensure that all the water was mixed and heated, the cold water inlet was at one end of the tank and the hot water outlet at the other end. Since both pipes connect to the top of the unit, there has to be a vertical pipe inside it. If this pipe corrodes and breaks, the water below the break doesn't mix much with the water above, so you effectively lose the capcity to heat the water below the break. --Anonymous, 05:04 UTC, February 7, 2011.

You are referring to the dip tube.[9] It directs incoming cold water to the bottom of the tank so it gets heated while displacing the hot water to the top of the tank where it is drawn off. Without a dip tube, the cold water mixes with the hot. Looks like there were a series of heaters with defective dip tubes.[10] ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 09:31, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

We had the broken off dip tube replaced on a water heater and got a few more years out of it. Edison (talk) 20:08, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Outsorcing Pharma product ...

I have an Idea about a pharma product and I want to start a business for it .. but the problem is that I want to outsource the production of that product instead of setting a production plant myself.. ...... Is it leagel to outsource pharma product production ... and which are the companys I can outsource my product... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.225.96.217 (talk) 03:17, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

You're asking us for legal advice, which we cannot give. If you are really starting a business, especially one involving pharmaceuticals, you will definitely need to consult trained legal counsel on a number of issues before beginning. Don't try to get that kind of information off of the internet unless you enjoy being sued. --Mr.98 (talk) 03:41, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

The question hardly seems to step over the bounds as far as I can see. Searching for "outsourcing pharmaceutical manufacturing" gives lots of hits, such as Bayer Pharmaceutical Manufacturing Services. However you first have to deal with testing and getting government approval, very, very big hurdles, before even thinking about distribution and marketing. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:41, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

It steps over the bounds quite definitely because the OP is asking us for actual advice for their own business operations. But I do not have a problem with characterizing the magnitude of the effort, if it impresses the need for real counsel upon them! --Mr.98 (talk) 12:03, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

(Edit Conflicts) To answer the general question from personal experience of being employed at a large "Big Pharma" manufacturing plant: yes, it is quite usual for companies owning a licenced pharmaceutical product to outsource its manufacture to another company - there are many pharmaceutical manufacturers that specialise in making such products (as well as out-of-patent "generic drugs"), and companies that make their own products sometimes also take on such contracts to keep their facilities fully employed. However, getting a pharmaceutical product tested and licenced by the USA's FDA and/or the UK's MHRA, which is mandatory to sell products in the relevant areas (other countries have equivalent organisations), and then marketed generally takes a "Big Pharma" company (that knows what it's doing) approaching ten years and a billion US$.

Another approach is for a small company that has discovered a promising "molecule" (the industrial jargon, since that is what in essence a drug is) to form a business "joint venture" with a larger company with the facilities to test, get licenced, manufacture, package (a complex procedure), advertise, distribute and sell the product. This is common, though the smaller companies usually consist of several to dozens of scientifically qualified personnel plus the usual business staff.

All "Big Pharma" companies of course have large research arms with multi-billion dollar budgets that are continually investigating thousands of "candidate molecules", delivery methods etc, so the chances of a lone individual having hit on something they have not already patented are slim. However, as "slim" does not mean "zero", the best option (I would suggest) for such an individual or startup company new to the field would be to approach a patent agent specialising in pharmaceuticals and have that agent check whether this new idea is truly new, legally viable and practically feasible, and proceed onwards as the agent advises. A reputable patent agent will not rip off a client's ideas, because that would likely destroy their reputation and business, and will be eager to help with a promising concept as they stand to make serious money from their contractual cut of the eventual profits. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 12:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, there is one way that a private individual can develop a pharma product: if it is derived from a plant and can be sold as a "natural supplement". There are very few laws governing such things, and big pharma generally won't touch them because they can't be patented. If the product is synthetic, on the other hand, FDA approval is required and that's a big deal. Looie496 (talk) 23:15, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Small clarification: It's not the case that there are few laws governing them (or, in any case, fewer than regulate other drugs). It's that the laws that do govern them are very permissive. The Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 effectively says that the FDA cannot regulate dietary supplements as drugs, only as foods. (So if it doesn't kill you outright, it's essentially unregulated. Truth in advertising is much weaker for foods than drugs, as are claims to quality.) See Dietary_supplement#United_States. It's a recipe for a burgeoning market of quackery, of course, but there were strong political forces involved (something to do with the Mormons, if I recall). --Mr.98 (talk) 16:23, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

At the Sign of the Red Pale

I wasn't sure whether this was appropriate for the Humanities division of the Reference desk, so I am putting it here.

I have a booklet which dates to late 1926, and I am trying to find out about its publisher. The only clue is a logo on the back cover, reading "At the Sign of the Red Pale" and showing, engraved, a white shield with a red pale (wide vertical band running down the centre). There is the article Caxton Press, which makes no mention to the name in connection to this printer, and my on-line search for information about it has failed to turn up anything that wasn't about 15th-century printer William Caxton, from whom the phrase derives. I may want to cite the booklet in question at some point, so any information about the publisher would be appreciated; there is a five-digit number below the logo which could yield some useful information if I knew where to look. Waltham, The Duke of 09:36, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article Caxton Press that mentions presses of this name in Ireland, Idaho and New Zealand. The business of William Caxton (1422–1491), the first British Printer, was at the sign of the "Red Pale". Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:49, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Just a note, the Caxton Press in the article is not in Ireland, I have corrected the hatnote and the categories. Anyway, His Grace said he had found the article, and is aware of the connexion to William Caxton. What he is looking for is the publisher of the booklet he has. DuncanHill (talk) 10:11, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

A Google search turns up a large number of different businesses named "Caxton Press". Does the booklet provide any clues to help narrow down the choices? For example, knowing the topic, or the country of publication would help. Warofdreams talk 12:46, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

There was a 1926 booklet, At the Sign of the Red Pale: being a short history of the house of Vacher & Sons Ltd., of Westminster, 1751-1926, published by Vacher and Sons, the publishers of Vacher's Parliamentary Companion. This suggests it was written by Stanley Low, who was the editor of the Companion at the time - http://www.dodonline.co.uk/engine.asp?showPage=article&id=1138&nohead=1. Any help? Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:01, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

The title of the booklet is "Historical Note on the Mosaics at the Palace of Westminster", and it was written by "Thomas Wilson, Deputy Keeper of Westminster Hall and Clerk of Works, Houses of Parliament". I thought I should have mentioned that when starting this section but for some reason I didn't. Anyway, Ghmyrtle's lead seems promising. I am travelling today (leaving in ten minutes), so I'll check again tomorrow. Thank you all for your help so far. Waltham, The Duke of 13:38, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Based on the title of the book I was able to locate two catalog records in OCLC Worldcat: OCLC 79021900 and OCLC 50210863. In both cases the catalogers state "Printed for private circulation" which hints that there is no "publisher" in the sense of a formal publishing house, but rather this was commissioned and done by an independent printer (I know, fine distinctions of "publisher" and "printer"). In both cases they also list place of publication as "London?" and publisher as s.n.. The author is listed as "Thomas Wilson." Only three libraries (in WorldCat) indicate ownership of this item (you could contact them, but I'm not optimistic you'd get a good answer): House of Lords Library/Record Office, The Boston Museum of Fine Arts, and the Huntington Library (San Marino, California). --Quartermaster (talk) 14:12, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

There really is much more to researching than knowing about a couple of databases and how to use Google. I knew about OCLC and the like but didn't think to use the title as a search item; after all, I was only looking for some information with which to be able to write a full citation, and it seemed to me that information on a publisher (or, in this case, printer) is easier to find than information on a specific publication (I already possess a copy of the booklet, purchased via eBay). I'm not surprised, either, that the House of Lords Library has a copy, and I'm sure there's a lot of material I could view if I lived in London. But that's a different story...

Note: both pages make reference to a second edition of the booklet, and nothing on my copy suggested anything of the sort. From what I can remember (I don't have it here), it gave the impression that it was printed for the occasion of the unveiling in 1926. Anyway, the information is very useful, and I am most thankful for it. Waltham, The Duke of 13:51, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

February 8

Contacting British MPs

I'm not sure where best to ask this.... I know how to contact MPs one by one. Let us say for the sake of argument I want to write a paper letter to each of them. (Free postage to their common address at the Houses of Parliament!). Is there some simple and easy way to acquire a database or spreadsheet of all their names, constituencies, and contact details such as email and phone numbers (maybe even constituency office addresses)? BrainyBabe (talk) 09:33, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

They work for you has a list of the current MPs here, however it doesn't have details of their parliamentary or constituency offices. You probably want the CSV version, which is the first of the 'relevant links' in the right-hand column. CS Miller (talk) 09:54, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

The UK Parliament's web site lists all of the MPs and their constituencies here. Clicking through each name (though laborious) will provide you with correct forms of address and, in many cases, the address and telephone numbers for their local constituency offices. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:23, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Can you tell us why you want to do this? (Or is it a hypothetical question, seeing as you say "for the sake of argument"?). I suspect that individual MPs don't usually have the time or resources to deal with unsolicited correspondence from people other than their own constituents. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 14:48, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps Brainy wants to write them letters of thanks for doing such a jolly splendid job (collectively). --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 19:55, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that would be it. Jolly splendid chaps, all of them -- or not, as the case may be. But thanks for the tips. The RefDesk has lots of splendid chaps and chapettes, none of whom fiddle their expenses, as Wikipedia wisely doesn't pay us any. BrainyBabe (talk) 15:20, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Source of work

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principles_of_learning

Can anyone tell me the original source? Section starting "Under certain circumstances, the instructor can do little, if anything, to inspire................." In section Readiness - paragraph 2 Thanks. Will Patterson (email address redacted)

It has started some interest in my students (a lot more than I expected!) Edward Thorndike has emerged as favourite but this section has not actually found anywhere yet. William Patterson (talk) 09:50, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

It looks like it's verbatim from John L. Nelson's The Beginner's Guide to Flight Instruction (1990) [11]. It looks like a violation of copyright. ---Sluzzelin talk 10:50, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Specific scifi short story

Not sure if this is the best desk, but here goes... A few years ago I read a short story in a collection of recent (I think) scifi short stories, and now I can't find it. It was a story set in a future where most women only had periods when they were trying to get pregnant, and otherwise they just received some long-term medication via a shunt (?) and never had to worry about their cycle. The story revolved around a group of women in an extended family meeting with (I think) the youngest member of the family, who had joined a group that said menstruating was a beautiful, natural thing, and she was planning on removing her shunt. The older women were horrified, and explaining to her how ridiculous it was to choose to have a period every month. It transpired that the youngest woman (who had never had a period) didn't realise it would involve bleeding!

Please help me find this story, I laugh a little whenever I think of it and am smiling right now! I'd like to look the author up and see what else she's written. 86.162.68.36 (talk) 10:40, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

I think that would be Even the Queen by Connie Willis. Karenjc 11:39, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

It is! Thank you very much. 86.162.68.36 (talk) 12:07, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome :) -- Karenjc 14:45, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Having no menstruation isn't science fiction. It is certainly possible. See Extended cycle combined hormonal contraceptive#History. 93.95.251.162 (talk) 15:09, 8 February 2011 (UTC) Martin.

Indeed, but the (not) novel phenomenon of 'periodlessness' for some individuals wasn't itself the point of the story. Connie Willis [OR warning!] generally focuses on aspects of culture or society as affected by hypothetical changes in technology (in its broadest sense) or simply by temporal cultural development, not on the technologies themselves. In this case she was examining the scenario of a future in which, for some time, no women (in the culture depicted) had had periods. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 15:30, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Indeed. I myself am starting on a course of only having to experience 2 periods a year, and choosing when those are, which is much better than a flying car. But that isn't no periods, and it isn't a world in which the default is nobody having periods, and it isn't an amusingly written story. 86.162.68.36 (talk) 18:27, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

William Courtenay b circa 1341

He was Archbishop of Canterbury 1381-1396. He was born in a village near Exeter...Which one? Kennford (talk) 11:21, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

According to the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, he came from Exminster. Warofdreams talk 12:30, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

This review of a 1966 biography by Joseph Dahmus agrees. This page says "born in the parish of St. Martin's, Exeter, England, c. 1342" - the parish church of Exminster is St Martin of Tours. Alansplodge (talk) 12:45, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

...but there is also a St Martin's Church actually within the city centre of Exeter, so there could be some ambiguity or uncertainty. Exminster is a few miles outside the city itself. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:15, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, maybe. But another vote for Exminster here with copious sources listed at the foot of the page. Also this exerpt from Magna Britannia; "(Exminster) was afterwards in the (demesne of the) Courtneys, Earls of Devonshire, who had a magnificent mansion at this place, in which Archbishop Courtney and his brother Sir Peter... are said to have been born". Alansplodge (talk) 22:58, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Mercedes Benz?

The automobile company Mercedes-Benz is named after two separate people, Mercédès Jellinek and Karl Benz. But has there ever been a woman who was actually named Mercedes Benz? JIP | Talk 18:54, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes. Also "Mary Christmas" and many other "cute" names which mean (?) parents have stuck on kids. [12] "Mercedes" is not a rare first name for a girl. Collect (talk) 21:57, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Benz being quite a common surname in Switzerland (over 2,000 entries in the electronic phone book), I expected to perhaps find an example of a Mercedes with a Spanish maiden name having married a Herr Benz. I found no such example, but I did in fact find a Frau Benz whose middle name is "Mercedes". ---Sluzzelin talk 14:42, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

This man is named after another motor company. DuncanHill (talk) 22:59, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

irony

what is wtrong with the page? And can you give me humourous examples thereof please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.89.16.154 (talk) 19:40, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Who claims there's anything wrong with the page? -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 19:46, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Humor is highly subjective, but one comic story which is basically the template for irony is O. Henry's "The Gift of the Magi". It is not a long story, but it is worth reading and if you understand how irony works in that story, you should understand irony pretty well. --Jayron32 20:41, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

The article, however, has a lot of what is assuredly "original research" therein. Much of Twain's work is ironic - such as having Jim be the genuinely smart person in "Huckleberry Finn" etc. which Huck (the narrator) appears totally oblivious to. Collect (talk) 21:54, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

February 9

Inflation investment

This is a U.S. specific question. Take it as a premise that you know with 100% certainty that a fairly large inflationary period is coming soon. Can you tell me a range of investments that are likely to be fruitful given this knowledge?--108.27.103.77 (talk) 20:30, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Buy German government bonds? Or any bond denominated in non-US currency. Assuming that the inflationary period is only in the US, and you are American, you only care about your return measured in dollars. As there is huge inflation in dollars, stashing all your money elsewhere is a good idea. You could take up dollar-denominated loans to finance your purchases of foreign-denominated bonds. If your assumed inflation boom is global, maybe you could short sell some US bonds? (I'm not sure if people actually do that.) Jørgen (talk) 20:36, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Or a shotgun and shells and enough tinned food for a year if you think the inflation is going to be really, really, really bad. Googlemeister (talk) 21:05, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I slighly over-thought it. Just take out a large fixed-interest-rate loan. Buy a house, or a factory, or foreign currency, or really anything, and then watch your loan disappear as the value of the dollar plummets. Jørgen (talk) 21:08, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

The basic idea is to pick things whose prices can be expected to rise in parallel with inflation. Most experts give commodities and real estate as examples. The classic inflation hedge is gold, but in my opinion it is currently overpriced so I wouldn't recommend it at this point. Looie496 (talk) 21:11, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree with all of the above advice, though I disagree that an individual can expect to hold out alone in a time of widespread violence. (If you expect such violence, then you need to expect to be outgunned by gangs, unless you have organized a neighborhood group patrol that can deter them.) Incidentally, I do not have 100% certainty about anything in the future (nor does anyone else really), but I foresee a likelihood of disruptive inflation. I have taken some of the actions recommended above. I would recommend in addition that you consider investing in foreign stocks, since growth would be more likely to occur outside the U.S., and your investment will be protected overseas from U.S. inflation. Marco polo (talk) 22:05, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Regarding German bonds, I am leery of investing in bonds in Europe at this time given the Euro's problems. Things in Europe are financially unstable in my opinion—anyone read that story in The New York Times Magazine two or three weeks ago? (here's a link). Anyway, I was also thinking about gold, but it's at a huge high. Any other specific commodities that might be good? Platinum? Cobalt? Copper? Should I short trade frozen orange juice futures? (just kidding). I am lucky enough to have a tidy sum in the bank (earning a truly paltry interest rate) and it's stupid to not take some risk with a portion but I still want to do something that's at least smart on paper.--108.27.103.77 (talk) 22:58, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Here in the UK, land is the only investment I can think of that has not fallen in real value at some time during my lifetime. (I've tried all the other investments and lost! I wish I'd invested in land many years ago! I'm not sure whether the same is true of land in America - there's a lot more of it! Dbfirs 23:07, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Besides the above-mentioned precious metals, another strategy is to invest in inflation-protected government bonds, known in the U.S. as "Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities." The thing about bonds is you don't have to sit there collecting the interest rate (or Coupon) but can sell the bond to someone else before it matures. If you are in a period of low inflation, and it becomes clear that inflation will increase, that TIPS you bought will now sell for a premium. Another thing you can do is to short-sell investments that don't do well in inflationary environments, such as stocks that get much of their return from their dividend. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:49, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

What Career should i take

Hi,I'm going to study University this June, i have to leave by summer, and i still haven't decide what should i study, i don't know the careers,i would like you guys to help me, this is a list of the things i wish i could do with my career

•Develop in Adobe Flex 3.0 or 4.0,Java j2EE,XML,Action Script •specialize in textile engineering •oversee all aspects of product development from the design phase through production, with the guidance of the product managers •work directly with the product managers to take projects from the design phase to being production ready with complete technical packages created within projects timelines •understand the pattern making, textiles, construction techniques and other elements that comprise apparel and brace construction •Be Responsible of the commercialization of products from the initial creation of the specifications to final production •Design, prototype and test products according to their design specifications and provide guidance on all fabrication both in the prototype and production phase •Develop commercially viable product in partnership with design,development and manufacturing while adhering to quality, product margin and calendar requirements •Develop fabric specifications based on performance requirements and appearance, source, acquire and conduct sample verification testing •Establish and maintain materials’ specifications libraries for textiles, trim and associated hardware •Create standards and procedures for the textile platform, including sourcing qualification •Set up prototype fabrication capability, assisting in the hiring of personnel, setting up of facilities and the identification of sewing equipment, fixtures and supplies, and the maintenance of inventories •Provide training to production personnel •Prepare the appropriate documentation to verify the design by producing technical packages, drawings, work instructions, patterns and test plans •Work with textile mills, convertors and suppliers to establish a physical materials samples library •Gain experience with pattern making, seam types, threads and sewing techniques •Gain experience with test equipment and fabrics’ test standards both for materials & finished products •Travel to tradeshows, material shows, and partner with vendors to track market trends and innovative materials and constructions •Gain experience with Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator and SolidWorks •Interpreting and working from engineering drawings •Know about ASTM, ISO, AATCC standards •Learn MS office such as Word, Excel and PowerPoint and MS Project •Able to communicate clearly and effectively at all levels of organization and internationally with vendors •Travel domestically and internationally.Travel for on site development and associate training for new product implementation •I would like to work in an Important Transnational Financial company •Work in the field of sales financing, mortgage, real estate, small and medium-sized business sales, Automotive and investment funds

So based in all of the above information, which career should i take in University? thank you for your help —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.79.129.82 (talk) 21:55, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Before trying to answer, you have to tell us from where you copied and pasted all of those bullet points, because nobody on Earth says that in their career they want to be sure to be "interpreting and working from engineering drawings". Comet Tuttle (talk) 23:34, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Most of those bullet points (probably all except the last two) seem to be from a detailed job description for something like a senior product manager in a textile company. A single university qualification is unlikely to furnish you with all the necessary skills for that job; in fact you would probably need substantial experience in the textile industry before even being seriously considered for the position. However, an engineering dergree could be a step in the right direction.

As for the last two bullet points, they seem to be a generic wish list which could be satisfied with some accountancy qualification Whether or not a degree will be required will depend on the position applied for. Astronaut (talk) 00:22, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I am in University right now. Two years ago, before my matriculation into College, I had a solid plan laid out for my future. I even used online resources like this Reference Desk to hammer out the details. I got to school and found out that I didn't enjoy the classes I was taking that applied to my career. Turns out, as several adults told me before I went to college, and two advisors told me afterwards, the degree doesn't matter. Unless you plan on taking up research as a doctoral candidate and as a professor, the path is totally unimportant. My dad always said "Get the Sheepskin." I didn't understand until recently when an anonymous hiker I met on a trail told me "Take what is fun, then start your career." While it is important to plan for the future (like buying low and selling high in the stock market and opening up IRA and traditional savings accounts), University is for learning who you are and what you like, and for having fun doing it! schyler (talk) 00:35, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Note that schuyler's advice is true for some people. I was a chemistry major in college. Loved it. I got a master's degree in Education. Loved that too. Now I am a chemistry teacher. It is entirely possible to go to college with a course of study and a planned job in mind, take the classes you need for that career, thoroughly enjoy yourself, and also get lots of relevent, useful, and applicable job training all at the same time. The best advice is to make the best out of your university experience, whatever that means for you. Some people have experiences like mine, others find that their university experience was fun, but never get to "use" their degree, finding jobs in other fields, and other people have completely different experiences. --Jayron32 00:48, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Sales persons

When I visited the US on holiday a while ago, I was asked at the till point in a clothing shop what assistant helped me, to which is was completely dumbfounded! In a episode of Will & Grace, it is mentioned when Grace says "When they ask me at the register who helped me, I always say 'No one'." Asking who helped you on the salesfloor is completely unheard of in the UK (at least to my knowledge), so what is the purpose of asking this? Does it go to some sort of employee benefit? Regards, 86.185.188.239 (talk) 22:40, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

At some stores the sales staff are paid commissions or are otherwise awarded benefits, yes. However, these days in the US, I find it very rare to be asked this question. Comet Tuttle (talk) 23:32, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

In addition to the commission system, some stores have workers assigned to specific areas, they might be doing spot checks to make sure they're working their area. 65.29.47.55 (talk) 01:22, 10 February 2011 (UTC)