Talk:Umayyad Caliphate

The Misuse of the Word 'Arab'

The use of the word Arab is far too liberal and not specific enough for an encyclopaedia - as the Umayyad Caliphate was Syrian and therefore likely what has been called Arabic for was a a derivative of the Syrian language. In the Bible there are frequent references to Damascus but at no time does it put Arab and Damascus or Arab and Syrian together.

The Syrian Umayyad was important to the development of Islam - as they compiled the Koran - as the original Arabian text - was written in Old Arabic of which few could understand - source Encyclopedia Britannica - under the comparatively modern Syria - Islamic architecture and calligraphy were developed. In addition the five pillars of Islam were established and Islamic law was written drawing mainly from Persian and Armenian law.

This work was done only after North Africa and Spain were conquered - supposedly for Islam - whether these lands were conquered in the name of Islam - is questionable - as the Umayyad ruling that everyone in the conquered lands should speak Arabia /more Syrian came in order to spite the Byzantine rulers who were the previous conquers of these sought after lands of the Roman Empire - under the ruling all reminders of Byzantine had to be removed - all coins' writing changed to the new Middle Eastern style. As well as all were encouraged largely through political gain to take Islam. But not before the Syrian Umayyad prepared the Koran so that it could be accepted - in these mainly Christian and tribal lands. And the Koran still exists in this form today.

So maybe the people of North African might consider calling themselves Syrian rather than Arab - The Island of Gibraltar is named after the first Islamic conqueror Tariq - who was himself a Syrian!

Perhaps the Umayyah was the first of the non-Arab caliphates —Preceding unsigned comment added by Egyptoo (talk • contribs) 21:10, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Your comment has so many factual errors that it's useless to even try and itemize them, I'll just say that Tariq was not Syrian, he was a berber from Morocco.Yazan (talk) 16:26, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Miscelanneous

I took the spelling of names in the list from Albert Hourani's A History of the Arab Peoples, ISBN 1567312160. I fully realize that any transliteration from the Arabic is fraught with peril. If you decide to change it, please change it as universally as possible! --MichaelTinkler

Hmmm! I think the images are a bit out of topic and I placed one myself. I'll handle this later, unless someone does something before. --zelidar 21:10, 2005 Apr 9 (UTC)

in general

This could be a lot worse but it is filled with minor errors and has more Shi'ite pov than it should (eg the canard about 'Umayyah). The general layout is poor and I can see no reason for listing Banu Umayya companions and successors. Since when has the tribal affiliations of either been of any interest? I have made no changes. I am planting this here to see if I get any comments then in a few months I will start actual editing. Kleinecke 16:18, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the "origins" section way exceeds the proper extent of the article and needs some major editing. -afdoug 19 sept 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Afdoug (talk • contribs) 04:02, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Banu

well, al other tribes are called Banu x, so i thought i whould be better if it followed the same principle..hmmmm....

--Striver 14:07, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Map of the empire

I think it would benefit the article greatly. Ksenon 18:21, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

The firs map wich show the caliphate extension in red is highly inaqurate because the following reasons:

1. Crete wasn't conquered until the year 824 by the andalusian exiliates. 2. Sicily was invaded by the arabs in 652 but they were quickly repulsed, the trully conquest of that island began in 827 under the hand of north africans. 3. Canary Islands wasn't part of the Caliphate, in fact never was conquered by any muslim power.

I will talk with the guy that posted if he want to correct the map, but until that happen, i will delete the image.

--Bentaguayre 17:33, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

the fantastic four

This page mentions: four rightly guided Caliphs (Abu Bakr, Omar, Usman, Ali)

The History of Islam page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_islam) mentions: the regim of Caliphate of Muhammad's Companions (Abubakar,Umar,Usman and Ali).

I almost missed the similarity. Is one of these "translations" (who the four are, and their names) more often used?

The most conventional transliteration for these names would be: Abu-Bakr, 'Umar, 'Uthman and 'Ali. The hyphen in Abu-Bakr is optional. I am going to change the article to use these. Kleinecke 16:08, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Muawiya/Muwawiya/Muawiyah

Are all these names three different people or is the author of this really bad at proofreading?

I'm no expert but I'm guessing that they are the same person. All three have the same pronounciation: Moo-wha-ee-yah

They are all the same name. There was a Muawiyah I and a Muawiyah II in the Umayyad Caliphate. The pronounciation goes like this: Moo-aw-wee-yah. HaterofIgnorance (talk) 15:29, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

rename

{{rename|Banu Umayyah}} (striking old request, removes from category Patstuart^talk|edits 00:26, 26 December 2006 (UTC))

see Banu Quraish to see how all the other sub-clans are named. --Striver 17:50, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

No objections? --Striver 02:45, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Umayyad is more popular to the English reader. --Islamic 14:43, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that is true. But that could be solved by having a redirect, so everyione does find its way here, and explain the etymology in a section of its own. Don't you agree that its better to name it after a tranlisteration, so it follows the precedens of the other tribes? --Striver 16:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

A redirect from one name to the other would be best. But which name is fundamental? I believe the importance of the Umayyads is as a dynasty rather than as a "tribe" (they were at best a family) and dynasties are not generally called Banu anything in English. So I say redirect Banu Umayyad to this article. Kleinecke 16:05, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

History of Iran

There is an entire list about the history of Iran in this article, and i don't see an special relation for that privilege. I have deleted it.

-Fco

expansion

Have expanded the history section, largely relying on G.R. Hawting, The first dynasty of Islam, 2nd ed. (London, 2000), and removed the expand tag. Comments and corrections most welcome!

I've concentrated mostly on political and military history; a section on culture is still a desideratum --Javits2000 18:18, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

merger

Normally you would expect either the purals noun Umayyads as the article title or Umayyad dynasty, not the singular adjective Umayyad .S711 15:13, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

the name of tribe

the name of tribe is Banu Umayyah(Which means sons of Umayyah) not Umayyad

Opinion section

I included the Baha'i theological standpoint on the Umayyads, but as `Abdu'l-Bahá has made the statement as the authoritative standpoint of the religion and has asserted it as a fact as opposed to the opinion I felt the term "standpoint" was more appropriate. I feel a little uncomfortable including it in that section though because it seems to be placing an official standpoint next to general trends of opinion. Any thoughts? Peter Deer (talk) 08:34, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Me too feel uncomfortable. I demoted it to a new Other religions subsection. The Bahá'í standpoint is an outgroup opinion, like imagininative

Christian standpoint

Christians in general feels like the Umayyad were nice guys, but then generally exclaims

"Umayyad" who?!?

Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 16:03, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Major Blunders - Qusayr Amra was built by Walid I not Walid II

Whoever has said the architectural finds at Qusayr Amra were built in the time of Walid II is seriously out in his dates. Almost all the archaeological books say it was Walid I who built it, and it may have been used by Yazeed II and Walid II also. Given the fact that Walid II's section is dominated by a photo from a palace he did not even build yet which is being ascribed to him, I'd say that's a blunder which should be changed. Any objections? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frank1829 (talk • contribs) 01:04, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

A good idea so long as you cite it to a reliable source. Dougweller (talk) 06:34, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

The map

The map in the infobox is exaggerated. Umayyad caliphate had conquered only a part of Transoxiana and had never conquered north of Transoxiana (ie Syr Darya). The second map in the History section seems more realistic. Although, I don't know much about Umayyad conquests in Africa, by comparing the maps, I can see a similar exaggeration in Africa also.

Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 12:49, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree and i have replaced the fairy tale map with the previous one. --Scoobycentric (talk) 13:00, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Major mistake in Umayyad genealogy

There is a major mistake in the genealogy proposed for the Umayyads in this page. 'Uthman (the 3rd Caliph) was not Abu Sufyan's brother, but his first cousin once removed. He was the son of Affan, the son of Abu al-'As. This means that Mu'awiya b. Abu Sufyan, who appears in this genealogy as 'Uthman's nephew, was in fact his second cousin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.73.119.206 (talk) 13:39, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

DNA

Can we add a new section for the DNA regarding Banu Umayyed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.96.229.84 (talk) 08:36, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

DNA regarding Banu Umayyad

i read the some people think that Banu Umayyed don't belong to the same tribe and they are whatever.. Banu Umayyed offspring made DNA and the result was J1 .. if you want to make sure contact the Arabian DNA' admin —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.96.226.90 (talk) 08:23, 23 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.96.229.84 (talk)

Arabian DNA' admin? Really? Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 15:58, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

File:Flag_of_Afghanistan_(1880–1901).svg or File:3by2white.svg?

Why does the flag that links to the previous caliphate also be the flag of Afghanistan in 1880-1901, long after the early days of Islam?

File:3by2white.svg would be better because the first caliphate had no flag. Flags existed but not every country had one back then(unlike now).

Could someone explain this to me? 216.105.64.140 (talk) 02:21, 23 July 2011 (UTC)