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Oldest building...oldest tavern...

The article says:

"The White Horse Tavern (Rhode Island) is most likely the Tavern housed in the oldest building."

Surely this is in the US only? In Britain we have pubs considerably older than the entire US - buildings and all. There's no contest for oldest pub. It may not be UK, it could be somewhere else in Europe. But it most certainly is not the US. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.21.64 (talk) 21:49, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lafitte's Blacksmith Shop New Orleans

Lafitte's Blacksmith Shop's claim to being the oldest bar in the U.S. is a fairly recent claim. At one time they claimed to be "the oldest building to house a bar." Supposedly, it was a blacksmith shop in the years Jean Lafitte was active in New Orleans (1810 - 1815) - it never was, actually, but even if the legend were true it wouldn't have both a blacksmith shop AND a bar. In the 1842 City Directory there were two dentists by the names of GUIROUD and VALENCOURT practicing in the building http://files.usgwarchives.net/la/orleans/history/directory/1842ad-a.txt - the address at the time was 221 Bourbon Street. (The numbering system in New Oreans was changed in the late 1800's; the current address is 941 Bourbon.)

The Sanborn Street Rate Slips reveal that in 1897 it was a combination oyster shop and cobbler shop. http://nutrias.org/info/louinfo/1897/bourbonl.htm While it's possible that liquor was served in the oyster shop it's highly unlikely as the property is not large enough for oysters, shoes AND bar supplies.

The building itself is what is known as a "Commercial Cottage" - the room where the actual serving bar, itself, is today sits directly on the ground while 3/4 of the room are raised up on three sides of it. The one room would have been commercial space and three rooms raised around it would have been living quarters. A 1938 architectural rendering of the building http://www.angelfire.com/la3/gumbo_ya_ya/images/Lafittes_Plan.jpeg shows that one half of the first floor of the building was residential and one half was commercial. In 1897 either the oyster seller or the cobbler would have operated in the courtyard and the other would have been inside the inner commercial space. There are many of these buildings in and around New Orleans - very typical of the late Colonial and early Federal period. It's true that many of these were grog shops and it's possible that the "Blacksmith Shop" served that purpose at one time or another, but there is no record of it - no liquor licenses, no permits to run a saloon, tavern, cabaret or otherwise in City Council records, tax records or in the Notarial Archives. Mrbentley (talk) 12:32, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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 == Lafitte's Blacksmith Shop New Orleans ==
-Lafitte's Blacksmith Shop's claim to being the oldest bar in the U.S. is a fairly recent claim.  At one time they claimed to be "the oldest building to house a bar."  Supposedly, it was a blacksmith shop in the years Jean Lafitte was active in New Orleans (1810 - 1815) - it never was, actually, but even if the legend were true it wouldn't have both a blacksmith shop AND a bar.  In the 1842 City Directory there were two dentists by the names of GUIROUD and VALENCOURT practicing in the building  <ref>http://files.usgwarchives.net/la/orleans/history/directory/1842ad-a.txt</ref> - the address at the time was 221 Bourbon Street.  (The numbering system in New Oreans was changed in the late 1800's; the current address is 941 Bourbon.)
+Lafitte's Blacksmith Shop's claim to being the oldest bar in the U.S. is a fairly recent claim.  At one time they claimed to be "the oldest building to house a bar."  Supposedly, it was a blacksmith shop in the years Jean Lafitte was active in New Orleans (1810 - 1815) - it never was, actually, but even if the legend were true it wouldn't have both a blacksmith shop AND a bar.  In the 1842 City Directory there were two dentists by the names of GUIROUD and VALENCOURT practicing in the building http://files.usgwarchives.net/la/orleans/history/directory/1842ad-a.txt - the address at the time was 221 Bourbon Street.  (The numbering system in New Oreans was changed in the late 1800's; the current address is 941 Bourbon.)
-The Sanborn Street Rate Slips reveal that in 1897 it was a combination oyster shop and cobbler shop.  <ref>http://nutrias.org/info/louinfo/1897/bourbonl.htm</ref>  While it's possible that liquor was served in the oyster shop it's highly unlikely as the property is not large enough for oysters, shoes AND bar supplies.
+The Sanborn Street Rate Slips reveal that in 1897 it was a combination oyster shop and cobbler shop.  http://nutrias.org/info/louinfo/1897/bourbonl.htm  While it's possible that liquor was served in the oyster shop it's highly unlikely as the property is not large enough for oysters, shoes AND bar supplies.
-The building itself is what is known as a "Commercial Cottage" - the room where the actual serving bar, itself, is today sits directly on the ground while 3/4 of the room are raised up on three sides of it.  The one room would have been commercial space and three rooms raised around it would have been living quarters.  A 1938 architectural rendering of the building <ref>http://www.angelfire.com/la3/gumbo_ya_ya/images/Lafittes_Plan.jpeg</ref> shows that one half of the first floor of the building was residential and one half was commercial.  In 1897 either the oyster seller or the cobbler would have operated in the courtyard and the other would have been inside the inner commercial space. There are many of these buildings in and around New Orleans - very typical of the late Colonial and early Federal period.  It's true that many of these were grog shops and it's possible that the "Blacksmith Shop" served that purpose at one time or another, but there is no record of it - no liquor licenses, no permits to run a saloon, tavern, cabaret or otherwise in City Council records, tax records or in the Notarial Archives.
+The building itself is what is known as a "Commercial Cottage" - the room where the actual serving bar, itself, is today sits directly on the ground while 3/4 of the room are raised up on three sides of it.  The one room would have been commercial space and three rooms raised around it would have been living quarters.  A 1938 architectural rendering of the building http://www.angelfire.com/la3/gumbo_ya_ya/images/Lafittes_Plan.jpeg shows that one half of the first floor of the building was residential and one half was commercial.  In 1897 either the oyster seller or the cobbler would have operated in the courtyard and the other would have been inside the inner commercial space. There are many of these buildings in and around New Orleans - very typical of the late Colonial and early Federal period.  It's true that many of these were grog shops and it's possible that the "Blacksmith Shop" served that purpose at one time or another, but there is no record of it - no liquor licenses, no permits to run a saloon, tavern, cabaret or otherwise in City Council records, tax records or in the Notarial Archives.
 [[User:Mrbentley|Mrbentley]] ([[User talk:Mrbentley|talk]]) 12:32, 1 August 2012 (UTC)