User talk:Montanabw

WikiStress level

Beware! This user's talk page is monitored by talk page watchers. Some of them even talk back.

Make articles, not wikidrama

This user replies where s/he likes, and is inconsistent in that respect.

Sandbox invite

Anyone may play in my sandboxes, in the archive list to the right, IF you promise to behave. This means:

• No kicking sand
• No hitting other people over the head with toys
• No pooping, even if you are a cat and neatly cover it up!
• It's my sandbox, so I can throw you out if you misbehave!  :-)

Typical talk page discussion thread

"[The] readers will not be privy to the massive undercurrents of dross that underpins WP. They require well written, well sourced, encyclopaedic material that can inform, enlighten and satisfy their interest."

—User:Leaky caldron to User:ThatPeskyCommoner

"We live a time when criticism, especially here on Wikipedia, is considered to be a personal attack, which is at the root of this nonsense. Yet without criticism we can't improve."

—The user formerly known as Malleus Fatuorum

"Montana, you know I respect you greatly--you write FAs that have fewer adjectives than that outburst."

—User:Drmies

"Every edit, especially bold ones, is disruptive. Disruptive just means changing the status quo and because Wikipedia is in a constant state of evolution, it is in a constant state of disruption ..."

—User: Liz

Before you post on my talk page (humor)

Come here and I'll point the spout at YOU!

Don't call names, you yeasty half-faced clack-dish!

You have been noticed using opprobrious epithets. It's payback time from the Shakespeare Insult Generator! To activate the Insultspout and receive fresh insults, click here. Note that all insults generated by the Spout are guaranteed literary and cultured, unlike the nasty things you said, you churlish guts-griping mumble-news.

Happy Montanabw's Day!

User:Montanabw has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, and therefore, I've officially declared today as Montanabw's day! For being such a beautiful person and great Wikipedian, enjoy being the Star of the day, dear Montanabw! Peace, Rlevse 01:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC) A record of your Day will always be kept here.

For a userbox you can add to your userbox page, see User:Rlevse/Today/Happy Me Day! and my own userpage for a sample of how to use it. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Awww, gee! That was really super nice! Thank you! Montanabw^(talk) 04:47, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

'tis the season

Louisa Venable Kyle wrote a children's book on The Witch of Pungo --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:50, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Precious translates to the PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:03, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Happy New Year Montanabw!

Happy New Year!

Montanabw,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. Hafspajen (talk) 10:58, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year 2015}} to user talk pages.

Carter County Museum, Heart of the North Rodeo

Checking out the new pages feed, these crossed my eye and I thought of you: Carter County Museum, Heart of the North Rodeo. Lightbreather (talk) 00:20, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Ah yes. Mutton busting. Sigh. Don't know whether to feel sorrier for the children or the sheep (not what you think...) Montanabw^(talk) 05:07, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year Montanabw!

Happy New Year!

Montanabw,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 08:59, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year 2015}} to user talk pages.

Je Tsongkhapa -- Academic Views section rewrite

Hi Montanabw, and Happy New Year!

I am about to start the research to fulfill my promise to rewrite Je_Tsongkhapa#Academic_views. That section currently contains no actual information on Tsongkhapa's academic views per se, just brief observations about his views by other scholars, most (or all) of which could be described as critical (especially when you consider that deviating from the Indian Buddhist tradition is commonly used as a critique among Tibetan philosophers, as odd as that seems to modern sensibilities).

In brief, I am proposing to summarize Tsongkhapa's substantial and influential body of philosophical work, along with some of the major lines of criticism and rejoinder that have arisen. This includes scholarly opinions abut the import and influence Tsongkhapa's oeuvre. I will draw from both modern and traditional secondary sources, many of which I listed in Talk:Je_Tsongkhapa#Criticism_section_low_quality.2C_not_NPOV. Most if not all of the current material will appear in the rewritten section, but in context of Tsongkhapa's actual views and the views of his critics (unlike the way that material appears now).

Before I start on this substantial project, however, I would like to get any feedback or advice that you, @Joshua Jonathan: or @VictoriaGrayson: might have on how to proceed to insure a smooth process. I can assure you that I have every intention of observing your concerns in Talk:Je_Tsongkhapa#General_tone_of_this_article. But if there is any question from you (or anyone) about exactly what that means or my ability to do that, I would like to discuss it privately, if that is possible.

Thanks. djlewis (talk) 18:13, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

My own views will be consistent: WP:OR, WP:PRIMARY and WP:SYNTH are dispositive. The Stanford piece appears, on the surface to be acceptable, and given tht this person died several hundred years ago, there should be a significant body of work about him. If it is hard to find reliable third party sources that are not critical, I'm afraid that you are going to have to use them anyway. As you know, I am not a Buddhist, so my approach is that of an interested layperson and I am looking for whether this material is neutral and accurate. To the extent a figure is controversial, then "teaching the controversy" is critical, and not just "both" sides, but "all" sides. (For example, an emphasis on NKT views would be inappropriate in absence of an assessment from the modern mainstream Gelug movement of the Dalai Lama). I have the article watchlisted, so further talk can occur there. Montanabw^(talk) 23:33, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

My first thought is also: be aware of OR. If you rewrite the secion on academic views, than it should be on academic views on Tsongkhapa, not his own ideas per se. An dmake sure to write in little pieces, so thers can follow your train of thought. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:16, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

WikiCup 2015 launch newsletter

Round one of the 2015 WikiCup has begun! So far we've had around 80 signups, which close on February 5. If you have not already signed up and want to do so, then you can add your name here. There have been changes to to several of the points scores for various categories, and the addition of Peer Reviews for the first time. These will work in the same manner as Good Article Reviews, and all of the changes are summarised here.

Remember that only the top 64 scoring competitors will make it through to the second round, and one of the new changes this year is that all scores must be claimed within two weeks of an article's promotion or appearance, so don't forget to add them to your submissions pages! If you are concerned that your nomination will not receive the necessary reviews, and you hope to get it promoted before the end of the round, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews. However, please remember to continue to offer reviews at GAN, FAC and all the other pages that require them to prevent any backlogs which could otherwise be caused by the Cup. As ever, questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup and the judges are reachable on their talk pages. Good luck! Figureskatingfan (talk · contribs), Miyagawa (talk · contribs) and Sturmvogel 66 (talk · contribs)
If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself from the mailing list or alternatively to opt-out of all massmessage mailings, you may add Category:Opted-out of message delivery to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:51, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Instead of a cheque...

		The Running Man Barnstar
		Thank you for all you have done to help me with the Boat Race articles. Tonight we hit a landmark, over 50% of the race articles are now Good or Featured Articles, which is a monumental achievement considering that none of the articles even existed eight months ago. Thanks again. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:34, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Template deletion question

Hi! I have a question and i feel like you might be able to help me with an answer. Recently i was looking at the Template:Location map+ and noticed that someone had created another template that is essentially a reference of that template called: Template:BSA, Western Region, Area 4, Council locations. I feel like this might be criteria for speedy deletion T3, but im not sure. It essentially duplicates the existing functionality of Location map+, and also creates a hard-coded map that is referenced on Western Region (Boy Scouts of America). A non-experienced editor may not know how to edit this template if any of those locations were to move. I feel like the correct fix for this would be to properly reference the template on Western Region (Boy Scouts of America) and then delete Template:BSA, Western Region, Area 4, Council locations. The markers on template in question are also implemented in an odd way that Location map+ already supports.. (Ie html markup rather than the intended formatting).. Anyway Thanks for reading this! Dillard421♂♂ ^{(talk to me)} 17:56, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I am going to ping Andy (@Pigsonthewing:) to see if he can enlighten you or help you out. TfD if the place, but the methodology is not 100% clear to me - I do favor consolidating templates where logical and possible, so I think you are on the right track... Montanabw^(talk) 21:06, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

That seems to be the standard way of using {{Location map+}}; looking at its source code, it would clutter any article that used it directly. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:00, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

It's all kind of gibberish to me, can you help this user figure things out? Montanabw^(talk) 09:02, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

New sections

In my sandbox, I have been working on a piece about Minnie Evans. User:SusunW/sandbox#Minnie Evans (Potawatomi name: Ke-waht-no-quah) I don't really know what to call the article, as there is another Minnie Evans, so I added her Pot name to differentiate. I'm a bit confused by how the photo thing works and I asked the Wikipedia:Media copyright questions#Minnie Evans but after asking me for more information, they never responded. So I do not know what to do about that. It seems to me that he indicated the photo I found could not be used, but possibly the one he found could be, but I was unclear about it. Anyway, before I go live with the piece on Minnie, I'd like some other eyes on it. She was a pivotal figure in some pretty tense times for the Prairie Potawatomi, so I've tried to make it balanced, but want someone to check for POV.

Also, I deleted the stuff in the Indian termination policy section on Arthur V. Watkins, did an overview of all the political figures involved. Then I rewrote the article on Watkins. Most of what was in his bio was a direct copy paste without citation to a website link from his old high school. I would've thought it had been deleted, but I reworked the entire page, added a section of personal life, the Weber Basin Project, the Refugee Act of 1953, the McCarthy hearings and reworked the Indian policy part to make it more neutral. I did mention the struggle he had separating his religious beliefs from policy, but I sincerely tried to balance those with other influences. Would appreciate your feedback on both pieces when you get a chance. Thanks! SusunW (talk) 18:20, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I'll go peek and reply on the talk pages as needed. Glad to see all the work you are doing! Yay! Montanabw^(talk) 21:08, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I LOVE the info box on Minnie Evans :-) Now, how does one combine that box with a politician's?? I am working on Belvin now, he was an Oklahoma state representative, senator, and longest serving Choctaw chief. I had to copy the format on the politician from FDR. hehe SusunW (talk) 15:35, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

@SusunW:You pretty much have to pick one or the other, I think. That or go to {{infobox person}} to see if you can mix and match the parameters, I've never tried it. But User:Pigsonthewing (aka Andy) might be able to do it, if anyone can. Montanabw^(talk) 04:08, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

I agree @(talk) that it has to be one or the other. I tried to combine the boxes in my sandbox, and it doesn't work. User:SusunW/sandbox#Harry J. W. Belvin. I've managed to put the Choctaw seal in the first box, but not the only picture I can find in the second. *sigh* SusunW (talk) 04:40, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

@SusunW: I'm working on making it possible to embed one within the other (See Wikipedia:Infobox modules), but there's a technical sticking point. Bear with me. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:52, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing: Thanks! I've got both boxes loaded on the article, but it'd be great if it could happen with just one :-) SusunW (talk) 00:59, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure that I did it right, but it is 1) on her page and 2) here. File:Minnie Wishkeno Kakaque circa 1915.jpg The photo you had selected was not of Minnie and I did not think I could justify using it. The one with Nettie Wapp in it, I did not think I could use, as I do not know if she is deceased. SusunW (talk) 16:50, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

I'll go check it all out. Montanabw^(talk) 18:40, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

And one more thing, sorry, I just don't know how to do all this image stuff, can I use an organization's logo? The Choctaw Youth Movement logo http://www.okchoctaws.org/OCTAlogocropLined.JPG would be used for that page, which is now part of the article on Belvin, but I am going to break it out into its own page. Thanks. SusunW (talk) 17:47, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Logos can be used as fair use, if you jump through all the hoops. See Wikipedia:Logos for the details. Montanabw^(talk) 18:55, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

@Montanabw: way too complicated. I'm just gonna leave it off. I have no earthly idea if the logo began being used when they formed the group in the 1960s or if it is a recent development and I am not wasting research time to search archival records on a trademark for a logo. Too boring. ;) SusunW (talk) 00:59, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

IdeaLab proposal

There is a proposal at the IdeaLab that may interest you. Lightbreather (talk) 20:22, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Appreciate, thanks. Montanabw^(talk) 20:38, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Memorizing

When it was the first time we had collaborated on a same page? Bladesmulti (talk) 04:49, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Not sure, I've been here eight+ years, and that means I can't keep the players straight even with a program any more. I ran the interaction tool, and other than the various drama pages and some recent edits on some Buddhism articles, I think our paths crossed on horse worship and cattle (which has a sacred cow section). So probably eastern religion stuff. Maybe we worked together to deal with that person who was trying to claim that drinking cow urine was a legitimate religious ritual? =:-O (Oh, the things we do for the wiki...) Montanabw^(talk) 18:59, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes it was horse worship. Bladesmulti (talk) 15:12, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

As long as you weren't the guy who kept adding the [{Brony]] article to the see also links, all is well! LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 19:24, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Prasangika37s latest edits over the past few days

I feel Prasangika37s latest edits over the past few days is violating several wikipedia policies. What should be done? Pinging @Joshua Jonathan: as well.VictoriaGrayson^Talk 23:03, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

@Joshua Jonathan: @VictoriaGrayson:The catchall is WP:ANI. WP:3RR is another. However, you need diffs, so collect them first. See also WP:MEAT. Also, be careful that it doesn't bounce back at you... Montanabw^(talk) 23:14, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Okay.VictoriaGrayson^Talk 23:22, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Your advice is welcome

Hi User:Montanabw. I am coming to your talk page as I note you signed the The Autie Pact back in 2012. I am a non-neurotypical who lives with Autism in the form of Asperger Syndrome. If you know much about those of us on the Spectrum as well as Wikipedia editors on the Spectrum, you probably understand that editing and communication can be difficult enough for neurotypicals, excruciatingly difficult at times for editors like me with Autism. I am here on your talk page not because I am asking you to intervene, I am not canvassing for support. I am here because you signed the Autie Pact that is meant to be a way to move toward bridging the gap between neurotypical editors and editors with Autism Spectrum Disorder(s). Currently, there has been a discussion for a few days at AN/I regarding my ability to edit. I have been open there about being a person with Asperger's. When that information was brought forth, the reactions have been -- shall we say -- less than complimentary to those expressing their views about editors with Autism. This discussion and the comments from long-time and not-so-long-time editors is, in my opinion, an example of how far we still have to go in Wikipedia toward understanding that we are made up of editors with different editing styles and different ways of seeing the world. Of course, the difference in editors with Autism is more obvious and can be, at times, more maddening to neurotypicals. That said, with the rate of autism being somewhere between 1:55 - 1:110 and Wikipedia being a magnet for those with ASDs, I think it's fair to say that awareness is extremely important. Also important to remember is that discrimination against editors because they have ASDs is just not appropriate nor does it echo WP:AGF. If you are interested in seeing the thread at AN/I I am referring to, the link is here [1]. I have no expectation that you will look at it, my purpose here is really just awareness that Wikipedia still has a long way to go in the way of interactions and understanding between autism-spectrum editors and neurotypical editors. And, as the title of this section says, your advice would be welcome. Thanks for your time. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 16:29, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi Winkelvi, I'll take a look at the thread, but no commitments one way or the other; I'll reply further there or at your talk if I think I have anything helpful to add. While there are people who have discriminatory attitudes, remember there are also people who are just jerks to everyone and use any weakness they see. I also see a few cases, unfortunately, where we have a collision of people who are both on the A-spectrum, but one (or both) may not realize or acknowledge it. Yet they share the problems with communication issues, but each is sticking to their guns and creating a situation where an irresistible force meets an immovable object. Those are often difficult to resolve. I invite anyone else who watches my page to weigh in (nicely) on this discussion if they want to. Montanabw^(talk) 19:36, 13 January 2015 (UTC)