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{{yo|Martinevans123}} I'm having trouble understanding your edit summary. {{tq|the article does not currently seem to support it}} - do you mean the article does not support Engels' status as a feminist? If so why reinstate the categories? [[User:Feminist|feminist]] ([[User talk:Feminist|talk]]) 18:07, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
{{yo|Martinevans123}} I'm having trouble understanding your edit summary. {{tq|the article does not currently seem to support it}} - do you mean the article does not support Engels' status as a feminist? If so why reinstate the categories? [[User:Feminist|feminist]] ([[User talk:Feminist|talk]]) 18:07, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
:Ah. For some reason I thought you had added them. Please go ahead and remove. Sorry for the confusion. Perhaps I am subconsciously [[Electra complex|internally conflicted]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:19, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:19, 27 September 2018

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Image date

The photo of Engels which is dated 1840, is this correct? The file page of the photo seems to contradict this, and I don't know much about photography at the time but 1840 seems awfully early for a photographic portrait. Lizard (talk) 18:01, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that looks quite doubtful. Is it possible that, for whatever reason, it has been given a misleading name? The source given is here, the website of David Nessle and the text around it (in Swedish) gives no clue as to it's date. The explanation in the image file description, seems to suggest there may be two possible mentions in correspondence for a photograph which may be this one. And that the dates would be 1857 or 1859. The front of a book, the year 1929 and Moscow are also mentioned, but I can't quite make out what is meant. The image also appears on the cover of this book by W. O. Henderson, first published in 1976, and I suspect it's also used on the frontispiece as the list of Illustrations lists it as "Friedrich Engels at the age of 25, 1845, by courtesy of the Radio Times Hulton Picture Library". The uploader User:DieBuche seems to be still active, so maybe he will see this and come over to explain a bit more. To me Engels looks more like age 37 or 39, than 20, in this photo. And yes 1840 is an early date for photography in general. In the meantime I'll boldly adjust the caption to what I think may be closer to the possible likely provenance. To add further confusion, the referece given in the caption here s to this book by Tristram Hunt, but I don't know if the image appears in the book or what the caption is there. The online sample text has no pictures. If that book gives a real date, then maybe User:DieBuche may have to amend his file description. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:09, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
To chip in, I was admin at commons and prbably only transfered or zploaded it, I cannot provide any info on the date. Would be intersting to see if that book refers to the same photo. --DieBuche (talk) 08:54, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I see. Sorry to drag you over here. Thanks for clarifying, DieBuche. I'll leave the caption as is for now. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:07, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This source seems quite clear? The date was 1845. But it has "Copyright: © Lordprice Collection / Alamy Stock Photo", alas. There's also a remarkably similar one used by BBC here but which has "Getty Images" on it. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:33, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So the copyright situation is unclear - is it Hulton Picture Library? is it Lordprice Collection? is it Getty Images? Is suspect the latter, as Hulton Press Library was was bought by Getty Images for £8.6 million in 1996. So before the image gets deleted, I'll update the caption to 1845. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:25, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the comment above, "the referece given in the caption here s to this book by Tristram Hunt, but I don't know if the image appears in the book or what the caption is there"—this was already explained in my talk page comment of 27 March 2015 (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Friedrich_Engels&diff=653696132&oldid=651340474), that Hunt 2009 dates the photo as 1840. Too bad someone set up a robot to archive comments too quickly. But this is Wikipedia, where it's better to prematurely hide and lose information and have Chinese whispers than just allow talk threads to stand. And yet a comment from 2005 still stands at the top of this page as I write this? Karmanatory (talk) 03:56, 28 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And by the way, any claim by any present-day organization like Getty Images that they own a copyright on this photograph has got to be pure bullshit. I challenge anyone to even irrefutably identify the name of the person who took the photo, let alone identify the chain of generations of people who may have bought or inherited that copyright in the circa 180 years since then. Is any copyright from circa 180 years ago even legally enforceable at all anymore? I doubt it. Prove me wrong. Notwithstanding that such outdated property, if still legally protected after 180 years, would be theft of historical heritage of the commons by this point anyway. So regarding "is it Hulton Picture Library? is it Lordprice Collection? is it Getty Images?"—it's Chinese whispers, is what it is. Karmanatory (talk) 04:12, 28 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

German?

Encyclopedia Britannica titles him "Friedrich Engels GERMAN PHILOSOPHER". I think many other encyclopedias do likewise. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:54, 8 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: all work, although last one requires log-in/subscription. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:13, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

missing racism sections both here and for Marx

Why is there no mention of what racists both Marx and Engels were? Anti-black, anti-Mexican, anti-semitic, for starters. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.65.215.149 (talk) 00:56, 10 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Engels in Brighton 1877

My sources are Κарл Μаркс Фридрих Энгельс. Собрание фотографий. Moskow 1976, pp. 261-264; Boris Rudjak: Die Photographien von Friedrich Engels Marx im Zentralen Parteiarchiv des Instituts für Marxismus-Leninismus beim ZK der KPdSU. In Marx-Engels-Jahrbuch 4, Berlin 1981, p. 436. TRegards --WhoisWhoME (talk) 12:45, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

See IISG Amsterdam. --WhoisWhoME (talk) 12:54, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. This may be a book that's difficult to find outside Russia? Do you know if it's ever been published, perhaps in translation, in English? I have no reason to doubt your sources, but you might want to make these details clear at the page for the source image at Commons i.e. correct the details which are inaccurate over there. Otherwise there will be a conflict and another editor might easily come along and revert your caption like I did. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:07, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I own this books. The russian book is print in English, French and German too. Amsterdam own 2/3 of the Marx-Engels handwriting and many photos. Regards --WhoisWhoME (talk) 13:39, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I am very glad for you. Thanks for the info. But, if that book can be relied on, we still need to update the date and location at the Commons image source page. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:44, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Done --WhoisWhoME (talk) 16:27, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry. You did what? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:27, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
here. Regards --WhoisWhoME (talk) 05:51, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Um, that's a totally different image? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:01, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]


The Condition of the Working Class in England

Article first says The book was published in English in 1887. and then says In late May 1845 Engels published the English version of his new book. Can both statements be true ?! TGcoa (talk) 13:22, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It was first publised, in German, in late May 1845. I have corrected the text. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:17, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Anglicised version of his name?

A number of sources (including some referenced in the article) Anglicise Engels' first name as Frederick, rather than Friedrich. Should this be included in the lede, or included in a note as on the Mao Zedong article? Kujilia (talk) 13:08, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think those sources, even if we quite them, are misguided. His name was Friedrich. I also think the situation with Mao Zedong is somewhat different. But happy to go with consensus. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:20, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps Mao was not the greatest comparison to make. I see where you're coming from. I just find it curious that websites such as the Marxist Internet Archive and other publications which aren't (a) antiquated or (b) unknowing about who Engels was still use the anglicised version. I have no strong feelings either way; I'm just curious as to what Wikipedia editors think of this. Kujilia (talk) 13:39, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

When did Engels meet Marx

The article seems to give two different dates for Engels fist meeting Marx--first on his way to Manchester, in the offices of the Rheinische Zeitung, and then, later, in Paris. The latter is not explicit in saying "first" meeting, but seems to be a conclusion that could be drawn from "earlier correspondence," and "prior to meeting Marx." Although possibly not contradictory, the references are confusing.

Bgladish (talk) 18:07, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree, that's less than perfectly clear. So the offices of Rheinische Zeitung, where the two met in "late November 1842", was in Cologne, yes? It might be much clearer if the article stated that instead of just saying "On his way to Manchester", which might even suggest it was somewhere in England. It looks like the phrase "Prior to meeting Marx, Engels had become established as a fully developed materialist and scientific socialist, independent of Marx's philosophical development." should be moved back to that meeting in Cologne. But we ought to check what is said on p.71 of P. N. Fedoseyev et al. However, somewhat contradicting that claim, the Rheinische Zeitung article says this (emphasis added): "Frederick Engels, who first established close personal relations with Karl Marx in 1844, later affirmed that it was Marx's journalism at the Rheinische Zeitung which led him "from pure politics to economic relationships and so to socialism." (sourced to McLellan p.57). Martinevans123 (talk) 20:23, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Feminist categories

@Martinevans123: I'm having trouble understanding your edit summary. the article does not currently seem to support it - do you mean the article does not support Engels' status as a feminist? If so why reinstate the categories? feminist (talk) 18:07, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ah. For some reason I thought you had added them. Please go ahead and remove. Sorry for the confusion. Perhaps I am subconsciously internally conflicted. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:19, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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