Talk:Punk rock

Punk aesthetic" needed as subtopic in this article

This article explains the philosophy (!) of punk rock, but what it really needs, in my opinion, is an explanation of the punk aesthetic. Punk, at least when subgenres of music is the topic, is an art form. Art forms all have an aesthetic, certain qualities that characterize them. What is the punk aesthetic? Rough-edged? I don't really know, but there must be a book that explains it that could be quoted in this article.

Without a discussion of the punk aesthetic, one would have to conclude that "punk" is a catchall term that rock bands and rock critics attach to musical forms without giving it very much thought. What do these subgenres have in common:

pop punk, cyberpunk, hardcore punk, garage punk, proto-punk, Christian punk, celtic punk, post-punk, anarcho-punk, daft punk, ska punk, dance-punk, art punk, glam punk, crust punk, horror punk, punk jazz, punk metal, nazi punk, Punk pathetique (Ha!), noise punk, cowpunk, Guerrilla punk, folk punk...

If you can answer this question, you will have an explanation of the punk aesthetic. 207.158.4.90 (talk) 21:01, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Drum and bass is heavily influenced BY Punk Rock

It's not about proof that it is... you can hear it in Many a drum and bass song. So I have no idea why you people think I am vandalizing the article.... Me coming from being a punker and then delving deep into Electronic Dance Music, I can safely say that drum and bass is Punk rock incarnate — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.115.40.65 (talk) 20:06, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

You will need a wp:reliable source to support this. DVdm (talk) 20:10, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

What other source do I need besides the music? The drum beats and basslines in alot of Drum and BASS could be considered punk riffs and beats........ sooo I have no idea why you are trying to rain on my parade... I thought wikipedia was supposed to be about this kind of shit. see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_hardcore — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.115.40.65 (talk • contribs) 20:14, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Hey. While there is a good chance that this is true, for inclusion on wikipedia we need for a high quality source to confirm this. This seems counterintuitive at first, but its the way we insure that what is printed here is correct. cheers --Guerillero | My Talk 20:18, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Also note that Wikipedia is not a reliable source for itself. See wp:CIRCULAR. DVdm (talk) 20:20, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

76.115.40.65, your initial comment above is a classic case of Wikipedia:No original research ("It's not about proof ... you can hear it ... I can safely say"). The standard on Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth; That is, that a claim can be backed up by a reliable, published source, not simply that you believe it to be true. --IllaZilla (talk) 20:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

well then I'll add an influence part for that part of the article... that's all i want. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.115.40.65 (talk) 21:34, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't think you're quite getting it: What you need to do is cite reliable secondary sources to verify these claims. If you just add unsourced text to the article in order to justify adding "drum and bass" to the infobox, it's just going to be reverted again. Go look for some reliable sources. --IllaZilla (talk) 22:15, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Punk Metal

Why is the article Punk metal deleted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Punkswede (talk • contribs) 14:42, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I found 2 AfD for "punk metal": Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Punk Metal (2005) and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Punk metal (2007). Looking at the page logs, it appears to have been prodded about 6 week ago. Crossover thrash appears to be the relevant extant article. --IllaZilla (talk) 18:02, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

That punk metal would be the same thing as crossover thrash doesn't really make any sense to me. Crossover thrash is a fusion genre between thrash metal and hardcore punk, punk metal is an umbrella term used to describe crossover thrash, grindcore, crust punk etc. --Punkswede (talk) 16:23, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

that was the biggest issue with both times the article went through a deletion process. --Guerillero | My Talk 16:26, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

No Wave

needs to be mentionedMidnightCrisis (talk) 05:26, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

It is. Three times. DocKino (talk) 06:15, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

DocKino FTW. --IllaZilla (talk) 06:17, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Heavy Metal & Hard Rock as Influences?

Several Heavy Metal/Hard Rock Songs such as Paranoid by Black Sabbath, I'm Eighteen by Alice Cooper and Communication Breakdownby Led Zeppelin, can be labeled as Proto-Punk. Also, Early Heavy Metal bands like Deep Purple were labeled as part of the Freak scene, a Post-Hippie, Pre-Punk Movement. All of this same information can be found on the linked pages. This all leads to the idea that Heavy Metal was one of the Many influences of Punk Rock that led to the Genre's creation, The genre isn't the direct fore father of Punk ,but one of the many influences. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.86.38.58 (talk) 01:05, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

on any/all of that. Just a bunch of your own analysis and opinions. Unsuitable for inclusion. --IllaZilla (talk) 02:22, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

blah blah

The Faith is/was indeed an important straight edge band, one of the first bands along with Minor Threat, their split LP with Void (who influenced thrash metal, therefore they should be mentioned in this article as well) had this song "You're X'd" that talked about straight edge and was written around the same time the Minor Threat's song was, the reference I used this time is from the Dischord Records page so how can it not be reliable? It's an interview with Thurston Moore from Sonic Youth saying how The Faith (and Void) influenced his music, his thoughts on The Faith and he called them "the most potent distillation of what 'D.C. straightedge hardcore 1980' was all about." Also I believe that the other reference I used first was valid too, but this some other user said it wasn't, although it's not the original publication of the interview with The Faith that defines them as straight edge, the website I found got permission from the magazine that first published it, so the content was not altered; and it's not some random website, it's a Washington D.C. punk archive. But I'm sure all this means nothing to any of you so DustyCoffin (talk) 20:54, 13 August 2012 (UTC)