Talk:Velvet antler

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WP:MEDRS sources?

I found three possibilities rather quickly: --Ronz (talk) 03:38, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Helen M. Conaglen, James M. Suttie and John V. Conaglen. Effect of Deer Velvet on Sexual Function in Men and Their Partners: A Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study Archives of Sexual Behavior Volume 32, Number 3, 271-278, DOI: 10.1023/A:1023469702627. June 2003. pp271-278.
Allen M, Oberle K, Grace M, et al. A randomized clinical trial of elk velvet antler in rheumatoid arthritis. Biol Res Nurs. 2008;9:254-261.
http://www.mbmc.org/healthgate/GetHGContent.aspx?token=9c315661-83b7-472d-a7ab-bc8582171f86&chunkiid=104669#ref13

The abstract from the first source reads: "There were no significant hormone changes from baseline to the end of the study in either group of men. We conclude that in normal males there was no advantage in taking deer velvet to enhance sexual function."

The abstract from the second source concludes: "Overall, elk velvet antler does not effectively manage residual symptoms in patients with rheumatoid arthritis"

I could not find the third source (the link produced a "Page not found" error). Taking a quick look at what is available on Google Scholar, it seems that peer-reviewed, research medicine journals have found no evidence that deer antler velvet has any measurable health benefits in humans. This is not to say that deer antler velvet has not been the subject of scientific study, but so far, those studies are either inconclusive (at best) or else show that deer antler velvet has no measurable health benefits. I recommend rewriting the section of the article that begins with "Modern scientific research..." to bring the claimed health benefits more in line with the research record. Jkdimmel (talk) 13:49, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As a first step, I removed the claims about "increased joint health" and "increased male sexual function", since those claims have specifically been the subject of peer-reviewed research, and (as cited above) that research shows that deer velvet antler does not produce those claimed benefits. Jkdimmel (talk) 13:54, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. It's not been shown to have any effect. The third link is gone, and I can't find what it referred to.

What we need is a reference that summarizes the research so we avoid original research working only from studies. The reviews within each study should give us some guidance, but not enough. --Ronz (talk) 17:00, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

While not an medrs source in my opinion, being excerpts from Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database, this is something usable at least for claims made for it despite the lack of any medical evidence: http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-808-DEER%20VELVET.aspx?activeIngredientId=808&activeIngredientName=DEER%20VELVET --Ronz (talk) 20:05, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In trying to determine how to use it, I notice that it doesn't distinguish between actual antler velvet and the pre-calcified antler that's actually used. So much for this source being well-researched. Should we still use it? --Ronz (talk) 20:12, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

http://examine.com/supplements/Velvet+Antler/ Might be better. It's not used much in Wikipedia though. Maybe check at RSN or FRINGE. --Ronz (talk) 20:17, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.usask.ca/wcvm/herdmed/specialstock/antlers/antlerlit.html This is outdated, but might be worth looking into. --Ronz (talk) 20:24, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

29 Dec expansion

I reverted to prior to the additions of 68.98.4.64 (talk · contribs), because the main source, antlerfarms.com, is not reliable. The other two might be reliable for some information, but are obviously extremely biased. --Ronz (talk) 01:07, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've trimmed back the material to what might be verifiable, leaving the two books as references despite their obvious bias and questionable reliability. --Ronz (talk) 17:34, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note that http://www.antlerfarms.com/literature.htm is not a reliable source, nor does it actually verify anything of the disputed content [1]. This isn't just edit-warring, but spamming a website under the guise of it being a reference when it is not. --Ronz (talk) 18:12, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Spray extract

It would probably be due weight to mention the spray extract form, which is mentioned at Ray Lewis (football), but I think it would be undue weight to mention Lewis in this article. --Ronz (talk) 18:12, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merge from Deer Antler Spray

I've proposed a merge from Deer Antler Spray, and would like some help from another editor if you feel there's anything from there worth putting into this article. If not, I'll just make a redirect to velvet antler. Hoof Hearted (talk) 16:29, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Redirecting and starting over with some sources might be best. That article is nothing but NOT, OR, and MEDRS violations. --Ronz (talk) 16:48, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the assist. I'll redirect now! Hoof Hearted (talk) 18:12, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]