User talk:Joshua Jonathan

You are entitlet to you point of view but you should argue not just revert

You start reverting without arguments, to say it is "not constructive" is insulting. Do not behave as an AUTHORITY, since we are equal. Also the "please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines" is impolite. There is chapter in 'Article Talk' you can express you view, and according to you writings you are not familiar, n fact, what is constructive and grounded. I provided you modern resources there. Counting is simple and different than can be made over 20 decades before done in favourable History2007 book. I proposed erasing conflicting old numbers 15-18 and do not introduce any. Since you conspire with History2007 I will report you both. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.176.24 (talk) 14:47, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is about sources, not arguments per WP:V. IP needs to read WP:V. End of story. History2007 (talk) 15:41, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Sayadaw U Tejaniya

Hello, I'm not sure if this is the proper way to contact you but I wanted to respond to some of your comments on my proposed article which I found a bit curious and ask for some clarification.

JJ - Hi Iguana0000. Thanks for responding. I'll try to answer your questions.

"and there is indeed very little information besides his own website. " "You're only using his own website now as a reference." I cited five sources, two _full articles_ in two prominent english-language journals about meditation and one in the leading Polish newsweekly. For some reason the latest note by 'Bonkers The Clown' seems to have undone my citations, I'm not sure why that is or what can be done to undo it.

JJ - I see your point diff. But it seems that most "disappearances" are replacements by links to the same articles at Tejaniya's website. One source seems to be disappeared (Fabjański, Marcin (2009). "Nirvana: Access Code". Polityka. 13 (3): 73–75.) Only Tricycle seems to be really acceptabel - and that's an interview, not a secondary source...

"No matter how much his teachings may be valued by his students, the question for Wikipedi is "Who cares (besides his students)?" His students number in the tens of thousands on five continents, not counting the heads of monasteries in Malaysia, Sri Lanka and Burma who see themselves as his disciples and claim his lineage. May I ask what the operative standard is by which 'who cares' should be judged?

JJ - The operative standard is notability WP:N. Is he being mentioned by reliable newspapers etc? I believe right away that he's got tens of thousands of students, but Wiki-policy asks for mention in newspapers etc.

"Newspaper articles, or mentioning in scientific studies, would help" I understand this is all well intentioned but I'm not clear by what you mean by 'scientific studies'. Regarding newspaper articles, those are likely to be not in English but rather in Burmese, Korean or Vietnamese.

JJ - Maybe you should try to find Burmese, Korean or Vietnamese sources, and give translations. Are there Wiki-pages on him in these languages? Aks for help there too. "Scientific studies" are articles in scientific journals which mention him.

I should mention that I reviewed other articles on living Sayadaws and Ajahns (Thai equivalent) and found that most have no references or citations whatsoever. The most that any article has is 2. Thus I'm struggling a bit with the opacity regarding what standard it is I'm trying to meet.

JJ - I'm afraid you may be right here. But the problem is, you are the one to convince others. Take a look at Talk:Neo-Advaita what "fun" I had to convince some other editors on a new article I'd written.

Iguana0000 (talk) 18:04, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

JJ - Succes! Joshua Jonathan (talk) 19:53, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback

Hello, Joshua Jonathan. You have new messages at Oddbodz's talk page.
Message added 20:50, 14 January 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]

Oddbodz (talk) 20:50, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Suzuki POV

Oops! You're right, sorry! I'll do that right away. Pikolas (talk) 14:09, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Templates

Hi. Re your question in this edit summary, check out Template:Uw-tpv1 (and Template:Uw-tpv2 and so on). Rivertorch (talk) 16:53, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 19:39, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

3O

Hi, the formal channel for third opinion is WP:3O, for if you ask a specific user, they may say you picked a like-minded user. And you can also post on the project talk page, e.g. WikiProject Religion. If you post on WP:3O someone will answer. History2007 (talk) 13:44, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thanks! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 14:42, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Response

Hi Joshua, I responded to your comment on my own talk page. Dazedbythebell (talk) 22:11, 5 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback

Hello, Joshua Jonathan. You have new messages at CorrectKnowledge's talk page.
Message added 22:50, 5 February 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]

Hello, Joshua Jonathan. You have new messages at De728631's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Hello, Joshua Jonathan. You have new messages at Ninly's talk page.
Message added 6 February 2013. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Some stroopwafels for you!

Just a little encouragement in case you need something really, really sweet... Lova Falk talk 14:43, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 16:34, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ajativada

DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME 'EDITING' MY WIKIPAGE AS YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT READ IT THROUGH OR UNDERSTAND OR FULLY GRASP THE CONCEPT ONLY 1 IN 10,MILLION DO...TONY O'CLERY. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aoclery (talk • contribs) 20:45, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ajativada is not advaita as it is above advaita para advaita..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aoclery (talk • contribs) 21:50, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I know john le kay put you up to 'editing' ajativada that is why i exposed it on my facebook and elsewhere..................................Tony — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aoclery (talk • contribs) 20:53, 14 February 2013 (UTC) So you can sit around all day stroking your own egos....if you do not understand the concept you cannot edit it....even if it on behalf of a friend of yours that wants to attack the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aoclery (talk • contribs) 21:16, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A new barnstar!

		The Purple Barnstar
		For staying true to yourself and to Wikipedia in spite of recurrent harrassment. Lova Falk talk 06:40, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

I appreciate the offer, but I had to wean myself off compulsive wikipedia editing last year. It messes with my peace of mind after a point! This short burst of editing is a relapse, something I've been wanting to do for a long time for this article. Hopefully will control my urge to edit articles (and stay awake until 4 am) in the future. Cheers!108.214.13.148 (talk) 09:21, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki-addiction? Never heard of... ahum. Wish you all the best, and peace of mind. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 10:12, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Response by Octavious88 to level-two warning for disruptive editing

Dear Joshua, I write in response to the comment you left on my talk page...I am not very familiar with Wikipedia so didn't know where to respond to you. IF this is the wrong place do let me know. I do sincerely feel that while you have done a great job in presenting your point of view on the page on enlightenment, the contents do not cover what I feel is a valid point of view--that of mainstream science. Simply attempting to cut of discussion with accusations that I am being disruptive do not seem to me to be useful. I have not done any of the things your post implies. On the other hand, your post seems to be an effort on your part at intimidation and censorship and smacks of an authoritarian and controlling stance. My objection is simple and clear--the contents of the page do not reflect an important point of view and I will confine any future discussion on this topic to the page in question itself going forward, so kindly do not make comments I feel are unjustified on my talk page, but confine them instead to the page/issue in question. best Octavious88 (talk) 00:46, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've just read your comment at Talk:Enlightenment (spiritual), and responded. Thanks for your reply there; it makes it clear what you've got in mind. I found them very interesting. Let's try to keep to continue the discussion there; it's interesting. Greetings, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:19, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Turiya

Dear Joshua,

Your page does not mention something called Turyia. It is empirical confirmation that pure, non-phenomenal consciousness with "aham" exists. It is attainable through deep meditation.

How do I know this? A Dr. Paul Joseph visited our satsang and gave us a lecture a few months ago. He has apparently achieved this Turiya state through meditation. He is extremely knowledgeable on Buddhism and it struck me that you and he are very similar. He also presented his theory of re-feeding. Apparently it is much misunderstood. You should contact him...he claims he answers all emails, and his email id is pjoseph@cs.uml.edu. I think you and he have much in common. In fact when writing to you I had this eerie feeling that you are Paul Joseph...!

Octavious88 (talk) 01:24, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Paul (can I call you so?) Turyia, Sahaja, Ajativada, Anutpada, Rigpa, and there must be some more names. So, what exactly is it that you want? Trying to understand "turiya", or just trying to push your point of view on refeeding? It looks to me like you did gain some understanding about "non-I", but this playing around with usernames is weird. Please be straight and honest, and stop the masquerade. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:03, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

PS: I like your (?) review of Jed McKenna at Amazon. It's really good. No need to hide behind puppets, on the contrary. "Enlightenment" is not the same as instant perfection - unfortunately... Krishnamurti, in his "Diary", describes how "it" comes and goes. Have a look at Kensho, especially "Post-satori practice". Read Zen at War by Brian Victoria. Give yourself time to broaden and deepen your understanding - the rest of your life, to be precise.... Be patient, go on diligently. You've definately got the drive. But stay honest. "Sila" is necessary too! And contact Ton Lathouwers, a Dutch Zen-teacher. Mail him. He recognises the contradiction of "enlightenment" and Auschwitz. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:10, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Joshua...you are right. I apologize...the reason is that this can be a rough place. There is much I'd like to talk to you about. I am NOT claiming that enlightenment is instantaneous--far from it. I am saying the insight was so radical that it was not possible for the Buddha to make, till his mind had been freed up to make looser associations and think the unthinkable. Any way, if you could contact me or give me your email, I think we can have a very productive discussion. I don't think wiki pages are the right format for wide ranging discussions. The person you mention seems to be a "professional zen teacher." I have had enough of those and seek to find my own way. Also, I don't know his language (dutch?) and he doesn't seem to know english either. Octavious88 (talk) 12:39, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll consider doing so. Thanks for the honesty! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 13:02, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

NB: Ton is very critical of this "professional Zen". And he knows English. And he supports independency. But feel completely free to find out your own way; that's good. Regarding my criticism of your article: use is as useful feedback. And consider writing a sequel, on the questio if the Sutra-stories of the Buddhas's enlightenment are phenomenological or mythological. Might be better for your future credentials; you never know how this publication in later years may be interpreted by critics - say, academic employers, or fellow scientists. For that part, a mentor might be useful. You seem to be a higly talented person, and it would be great to see those talents flower! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 13:12, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I will read the book, though it does seem a bit surprising (all the better!) from the blurb. Re. the paper, it may not come as a surprise that among certain scientists (particularly those in the pharmaceutical area!) and also (again perhaps unsurprisingly) biomedical engineers it has been well received. Re. the stories that accompany the B's enlightenment, I agree with many that we don't know what was true and what was added on later and what was "metaphorical" and so I stick with a reductionist approach. (That being said, I am not sure though what stories you have in mind exactly). Thank you for your other comments, but as you and I know, I am basically a moron. Anyway, I would like to discuss much more--I recently experienced Turyia for ex and have thought much on it, but don't feel this is the place to discuss my tentative understandings--to put them out here would be premature, but I'd very much welcome the opportunity to discuss it with you via email or phone.

Also, I will search first for any writings by Ton to educate myself. It would not seem that I would get very far if I were to suddenly send him an email without first taking the trouble educated myself about his general views...going by Jed's books these big guns don't usually read their profuse email and I can easily see why.

Octavious88 (talk) 13:30, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Joshua, I read "Zen at War" and found it to be simply outstanding! Thank you for recommending it to me. Kudos to Brian Victoria! Octavious88 (talk) 15:20, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Octavious. Good to hear (read). Did you receive my email? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 18:34, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Joshua, my apologies, but I have not got your email...I do hope you will try again...maybe at my private email: pjoseph@gmail.com Also, thanks to your request, I have added some info. on myself on my user/talk page. Re. the user who wrote about Jesus's lost years...this is a theory my father and uncle used to hold dearly, but I am deeply skeptical (Occam's razor) brgds Octavious88 (talk) 12:40, 7 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

→ English course

Hello, again! (New message) ~E:74.60.29.141 (talk) 18:02, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

◄▬ Added more [stuff]. ~E:74.60.29.141 (talk) 07:56, 7 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Monism Copyright Problems

I very much appreciate what you are doing to edit MONISM but I have had to mark the section on definitions as a possible violation of copyright since it follows Mastin's web page much too closely. By the way, I doubt that he is a reliable source. Sorry! Jpacobb (talk) 02:14, 7 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid you're probably right. What a pity; Mastin gives an extensive overview. Well, at least it gives a bechmark, and an incentive to search for acceptable sources. Greetings, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 11:47, 7 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright problem: Monism

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If you own the copyright to the material: send an e-mail from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en(at)wikimedia(dot)org or a postal message to the Wikimedia Foundation permitting re-use under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License and GNU Free Documentation License, and note that you have done so on Talk:Monism. See Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for instructions.

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If you would like to begin working on a new version of the article you may do so at this temporary page. Leave a note at Talk:Monism saying you have done so and an administrator will move the new article into place once the issue is resolved. Thank you, and please feel welcome to continue contributing to Wikipedia. Happy editing! Jpacobb (talk) 02:16, 7 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Puttingfacts

Hi Joshua Jonathan, I'm Qwyrxian, an admin here. I saw that you have, over the past month, reverted a number of edits by User:Puttingfacts. I just wanted to let you know that that account is the latest incarnation of User:Krizpo, who's been making sockpuppets for over half a year, always trying to add that type of unsourced or unreliably sourced edits to religion related articles. I only watchlist a couple of his targets, but he finally went back to Religion in Africa today, where his edit was unmistakable. If you see similar editing again in the future, feel free to let me know directly so that we can determine if it is Krizpo. Qwyrxian (talk) 13:54, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Qwyrxian. Thanks for the message; I'll store your name and report it, if I encounter the same kind of editing again. Greetings, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 18:47, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dharma Transmission

The comments that were removed refer to scandals of practitioners and the general institutions of Zen. I do not see what baring this has on "Dharma Transmission". These comments should be on the general Zen page, the SFZC page, or the page of Richard Baker. Manfrog39 (talk) 12:17, 9 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To be continued at Talk:Dharma transmission#"general" gossip and slurs about past misdemeanours

CfD nomination of Category:Dharmic writers

Category:Dharmic writers has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for discussion page. Yworo (talk) 07:18, 10 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please comment at Talk:Charismatic authority

Hi I read your comment of reverting my edit at Charismatic authority, it's not clear in the article that part of text is a quote. I've talked about it more at Talk Charismatic authority I would welcome you input. ?oygul (talk) 13:48, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Bls:Ashin Jinarakkhita picture

Hi Joshua Jonathan, thanks for the message. I got the picture from the indonesian website of buddhayana gabveg.wordpress.com/budhhayana/ for a limited use only. You might want to ask them permission to put in the english language wikipedia..? And sorry I could not find the information you looking for regarding the ben qing / chen ping lineage.. greetings, Ennio morricone (talk) 04:13, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ennio morricone. Thank you very much for your reply! I will contact the Buddhayana-organisation. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:22, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

for cleaning up Java/Indonesia articles - the long list of to dos that I keep offline so as to not embarrass myself includes returning to some of these articles and trying to cleanup the articles and make sure they have proper cites - thanks again sats 09:56, 2 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your thanks! I cane across Java via Ashin Jinarakkhita, the teacher of "my" teacher Ton Lathouwers. I'm impressed by what I've come across so far - the openness to a intergrate various traditions from both east and west. Heartwarming and encouraging! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 10:31, 2 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Malhotra's Being Different

(To make sure you see it, I'm copying here a comment that I just now put at Template talk:Modern Dharmic writers) Joshua, I'm glad you find those articles interesting. Based on the fact that there are multiple reviews, the book itself is sufficiently notable for its own article, and I've now created one, here: Being Different. However, the reception section needs a lot of expanding by giving highlights of what each reviewer says (as well as Malhotra's response). Since it sounds like you are reading some of those review articles, I'm sure we'd all benefit if you did any expansion of the reception section that you could do while it's fresh in your mind. As an example of what such a section looks like, you could see, for example, the reception section of The Politics of Nonviolent Action, Handbook of Religion and Health, or Seeing with the Eyes of Love. (note: The other parts of the book article also need work, but that's a separate issue that is not as time-valued in terms of what you are now reading...) Best regards -- Presearch (talk) 21:59, 8 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Signature permissions

Hey Joshua! Well, I like your signature, and came here to get permissions for using it, As you know we have to be carefull about copyrights! :D, Can I use this Faizan Al-Badri -Let's talk! 11:06, 11 April 2013 (UTC) ?[reply]

Go ahead!!! Greetings, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 12:13, 11 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]