Jump to content

Talk:Benjamin Butler

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

First MG?

[edit]

"Lincoln appointed him the first major general of U.S. Volunteers, ranking from May 16, 1861."

John A. Dix was also appointed major general U.S.V. on May 16, 1861.

I'll have to check my sources, but this isn't necessarily a contradiction. Multiple men can be promoted on the same day, but the order of the names on the list establishes seniority. Hal Jespersen 15:24, 9 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Able Politician

[edit]

Although Butler was an indifferent to bad general, his political skills were first rate. I believe the article lessens the impact of the term "contraband" and how it crippled the Confederate war effort by providing a legal justification for keeping slaves out of their owners' hands. GABaker 17:14, 21 April 2006 [UTC]

Curious about this..

[edit]

I once read a biography that was generally exculpatory of Bulter, called Lincoln's Scapegoat General. As best I recall, it claimed that Butler was set up to be knocked down by Lincoln in both New Orleans and at Petersburg. Is this still a legitimate view of Butler?

That is certainly not the mainstream view. Butler's results in N.O. are directly related to his own conduct; what did Lincoln do to affect it? As for Petersburg, by which I suppose you mean Bermuda Hundred, Grant didn't want Butler in command and Lincoln forced him to take him. Doesn't seem likely that Lincon wanted a failure at that point in his reelection campaign. Hal Jespersen 17:55, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Contraband

[edit]

This article says that Butler refused to return fugative slaves, arguing that they were "contraband", and thus able to be seized. Given his role as a Radical-Republican congressman, and his support for the Civil Rights Act of 1871 and especially for the Civil Rights Act of 1875, it seems reasonable to assume that this anti-slavery figure was simply trying (1) to get around the Fugative Slave Act and (2) to use all available labor in order to beat the slave-holding South, (after all, white notherners were drafted en masse. Is this assumption correct? If you're a Butler specialist, please address this. If no one steps forward, I'll add something to the article to this effect. --Zantastik talk 04:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, it seems that I've answered my own question -- see Contraband (American Civil War). --Zantastik talk 04:53, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
A recent book provides detail. I added a couple of sentences to the Fort Monroe part of the article. Oaklandguy (talk) 06:36, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, I hadn't spotted the mention of "contraband" because it wasn't until the end of the section on Fort Monroe. So I will undo my own edit and confine myself to adding the Oakes book as a reference. Oaklandguy (talk) 06:44, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
In Louisiana, the existing article relies on John Winters's book of 1963, re slaves. The Oakes book (2013) has a detailed discussion of what Butler did and didn't do, and why. I haven't revised the article here; I haven't seen the Winters book; but I suppose major revision should be made. Oaklandguy (talk) 07:11, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Party switch?

[edit]

In Butler's political biography, he was a Democrat before the war, a Republican in Congress during the 60s and 70s, and then, by 1878, a Democrat again. The second party switch is not explained in the article -- anyone have any background? --Jfruh (talk) 21:56, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Inconsistencies

[edit]

According to all evidence including: "...his administration of occupied New Orleans...his ineffectual leadership in the Bermuda Hundred Campaign, and the fiasco of Fort Fisher...one of the most controversial "political generals" of the war..." he was certainly not kept around because he was "...an able but erratic administrator and soldier." None of his war record shows any measure of even closely resembling an "able soldier." Possibly a semi-able administrator but I think that may even be stretching it. But by no accounts may he be considered in any way an "able soldier." Possibly one of the union's most inept generals of the war. I am therefore removing the title of "able soldier" if no one has any objections. Historiocality 03:35, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Butler as VP in 1864

[edit]

I reverted an edit that indicated Butler had been offered, and turned down, the opportunity to run as Lincoln's VP in 1864. While Butler and/or Cameron may have later claimed that this happened, I am unaware of any major biographer of Lincoln that accepts this as likely. In any event, a solid source other than a website should be used if there is an attempt to add this information back. There is room in the article for more sourced info on Butler in relation to the 1864 election. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 03:57, 5 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The information in question was mentioned in Butler's memoirs, pages 631 to 634 (the book can be read here), where he mentions being visited by both Secretary Chase and former Secretary Cameron. The passage in question where he refuses to be Lincoln's VP:

"Please say to Mr. Lincoln," I replied, "that while I appreciate with the fullest sensibilities his act of friendship and the high compliment he pays me, yet I must decline. Tell him that I said laughingly that with the prospects of a campaign before me I would not quit the field to be Vice-President even with himself as President, unless he would give me bond in sureties in the full sum of his four years' salary that within three months after his inauguration he will die unresigned."

He goes on to decry the Vice Presidency as a useless office and says he will support Lincoln's election, believing that until the war is over there should be no change in administration. While the memoirs of a Civil War general may not be considered accurate (seeing as, in most cases - i.e. James Longstreet - it's a load of ass-covering and "setting the record straight" when you're particularly maligned by your peers), the Encyclopedia of the American Civil War also mentions that both Lincoln and Salmon P. Chase sought to have him as their running mate in 1864, both of whom he refused (his responses to both men known, recorded as they are in his own memoirs). The link to the encyclopedia entry is here. --Joshmaul (talk) 07:32, 5 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Butler's Orders in New Orleans?

[edit]

This section does not seem well cited and includes a baseless, or at least sourceless, analysis. Particularly, the paragraph which reads: "Many of his acts, however, gave great offense. Most notorious was Butler's General Order No. 28 of May 15, 1862, that if any woman should insult or show contempt for any officer or soldier of the United States, she shall be regarded and shall be held liable to be treated as a "woman of the town plying her avocation", i.e., a prostitute. This was in response to women in the town who were pouring buckets of their own urine on Northern Soldiers, and who at the time could get away with anything as respectable women. Butler's order stopped all of their behavior, without arresting anyone or firing a bullet which upset many Southerners because he completely outsmarted them." While there is citation before and after this section, this analysis seems a little on the outside. At the very least, it should be referencing something for its conclusion.

Further, on looking a the revision history, these few sentences appear to be vandalism.

Moved photos

[edit]

Moved photos to talk page. Replaced by updated photos. Cmguy777 (talk) 19:22, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Benjamin Franklin Butler
Major General Benjamin Butler

No mention of the Butler Medal?

[edit]

Why? Also why no mentioned that he was relieved of duty for ordering the creation of the medal to honor members of the United States Colored Troops who served valiantly in the Battle of New Market Heights? Cliffswallow-vaulting (talk) 01:12, 7 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Benjamin Butler/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)Press [show] to view →
I would suggest to the writer a more careful review of the Official Records concerning Butler's operations and orders at Bermuda Hundred. I would like to make 5 points concerning Butler's operations:

1. Butler's two Corps commanders (Gillmore & Smith) were veteran West Pointers who failed to follow Butler's orders (again consult the OR)at Drewry's Bluff, Swift Creek and two attempts (one by Gilmore & the other by Smith) to capture Petersburg. Their failures came very close to insubordination; 2. Grant's original orders were for Butler to march on Richmond, never Petersburg, and link up south and west of Richmond. This with an army of 30k while maintaining a strong supply base at the Hundred; 3. Butler not Grant, nor Gilmore/Smith saw opportunity at Petersburg and made two attemps to seize the city. Smith actually had large sections of the trenches and failed to sweep into the city! 4. Grant did not suffer fools well (ex: Banks)and would have relieve Butler had there been cause. In fact, both Gillmore and Smith were dismissed due to poor performance & insubordination. (Smith claimed Grant maintained Butler due to Butler seeing Grant drunk - I do not believe Grant drank while on active campaign); 5. Historians (Catton amoung the leaders)have a biased view of Butler because Butler was not martial in appearance or behavior. These prejudices can be traced from the last days of the war; 6. Give the confederates some credit- Beauregard, Evander Law, and other veteran combat commanders led veteran combat units from the Army of N. VA that certainly played a roll in disrupting the operations both north and south of the James River.

I would recommend Robertson's book "Back Door to Richmond" and Edward Longacre's study on the Army of the James for more information on the complex issues surounding the Bermuda Hundred operations.

Substituted at 21:35, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Benjamin Butler (politician). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:04, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 19 February 2017

[edit]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Cúchullain t/c 14:54, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


– This Benjamin Butler, who is at least as well known as a Civil War general as a politician, is the overwhelming WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for the title, receiving 10 times the page views of Benjamin Franklin Butler (lawyer), who apparently is better known using his middle name, and 50 times those of the artist. Also looks like about 10 times the number of incoming wikilinks and a solid majority of Google web and book search hits. And since both men were lawyers and politicians, the current qualifiers aren't as useful as they should be anyway. Station1 (talk) 20:02, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Confirm pageviews].

  • Support per nom. Beast Butler is the primary topic for qualitative reasons as well. —  AjaxSmack  01:53, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I was actually thinking of making this same request myself for the same reasons. It makes sense. --Coemgenus (talk) 03:07, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Also, what would be the best disambiguation for the other Butler's article? "Lawyer" and "Politican" should probably be avoided, since those terms could easily refer to either man. Perhaps something like "Attorney General", since that seems to be his highest post. Canuck89 (chat with me) 13:44, February 28, 2017 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Benjamin Butler. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:30, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

floating quotation mark

[edit]

At the end of the first line under Business and charitable dealings is a quotation mark. It should be attached to the first word on the next line, but I can't figure out how to do it.

Colorado association; Butler House (Pueblo, Colorado)?

[edit]

I'd like to confirm the general here is the Benjamin F. Butler who acquired ranch property on Huerfano River in Pueblo County, Colorado, in 1882. Butler House (Pueblo, Colorado) (if that is a redlink, see Draft:Butler House (Pueblo, Colorado)) is listed on the U.S. National Register but its nomination document is not 100 percent clear. The current article on the general does mention investment in Colorado, but a specific confirmation about this property would be appreciated. --Doncram (talk) 00:51, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the association is clearly established in the NRHP nomination document for the site, linked from article now. A webpage of History Colorado was not clear enough for me before. By the way, the NRHP document asserts this is the only Colorado property associated with Butler, and that he lived there for a period. --Doncram (talk) 23:02, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Benjamin_Butler&oldid=1206493470"