View source for User talk:Drmies/Archive 57

== Thought this might interest you ==

[[File:The_Head_of_the_Ghost_of_a_Flea_(Blake).jpg|thumb|Your nightmare?]]
I know you have an interest in fun and interesting artists, poets, etc. thought you might enjoy some of the work going on in my new project [[WP:Blake]]. It might keep you from going to crazy. You never know when some [[Spectre (Blake)|Spectre]] will come over you, causing you to create [[Visionary Heads|visions of long dead people]] or perhaps [[The_Ghost_of_a_Flea|draw nightmarish illustrations]]! Hope you are doing well, and happy editing! [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 23:27, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
*Hey Sadads! Old pal! Thanks for coming by; I'll have a look. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:27, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
*That's one full page, Sadads. Don't you have a day job? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 03:53, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
**Lols, it's not all me: Dmitrismirnov has been doing a quite a bit of work. Also, this is part of my day-job: Digital Humanities and an Internship! [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 13:50, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
***I was on the verge of writing [[The Grave]] last night and found some decent sources, but I got a bit tired--too tired for decent writing and researching. I'll get on that one. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:54, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
****Cool beans, we will be doing work on that article at an editathon coming up on Oct 11 where we will be focusing on that article amongst others (see [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Poetry/William Blake/KSU Editathon]]) but if you provide a good outline and a list of sources, that might make it easier to work with new editors (just adding sources and expanding sections). We can always focus on other content as well, if you find yourself really deep into The Grave! [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 14:13, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
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===[[The Grave (poem)|''The Grave'']]===
[[File:Illustrations to Robert Blair's The Grave , object 16 Death's Door.jpg|thumb|right|''Death's Door'' by William Blake, an illustration for ''The Grave''.  The "resting youth" figure at the top can also be seen (with variations in inking, colouring, and background) in several of Blake's prior works.  It appears on plate 21 of ''The Marriage of Heaven and Hell'', in ''America'', and in plate 4 of ''Jerusalem''.{{sfn|Makdisi|2003|p=121}}  The figure of the old man at the bottom also occurs elsewhere, as an illustration, also entitled ''Death's Door'' for Blake's own ''For Children: The Gates of Paradise'', as well as in plate 12 of ''America''.  There is a similar figure of an old man, on one crutch and being helped through the streets by a young child, in ''London'' and in ''Jerusalem''.{{sfn|Makdisi|2003|p=121}}  The first time that Blake put both figures together, as here, was in a pencil sketch that dates to the time of ''America''.  They also appear together in a further (undated) pencil sketch, traced over in ink, with a pyramid in the background.{{sfn|Makdisi|2003|p=121}}]]
'''''The Grave''''' is a [[blank verse]] poem by Scottish poet [[Robert Blair (poet)|Robert Blair]].{{sfn|Davenport|1822|p=199}}  It is the work for which he is primarily renowned.{{sfn|Davenport|1822|p=199}}{{sfn|Johnstone|1827|p=135}}  According to Blair, in a letter he wrote to Dr. Dodderidge, the greater part of the poem was composed before he became a minister,{{sfn|Davenport|1822|p=199}} Edinburgh editor and publisher John Johnstone stating that it was composed whilst he was still a student, although "probably corrected and amplified by his more matured judgement".{{sfn|Johnstone|1827|p=135}}  767 lines long, it is an exemplar of what became known as the school of [[graveyard poetry]].{{sfn|Crawford|2008|p=261}}
==== First publication and critical reception ====
According to that same letter to Dodderidge, two publishers rejected the poem before it was finally first published in 1743, in London by Mr. Cooper.{{sfn|Davenport|1822|p=199}}  Their grounds for rejection, as related by Blair, were that he lived too far away from London to be able to "write so as to be acceptable to the fashionable and polite".{{sfn|Davenport|1822|p=199}}  He sarcastically observed that "to what distance from the metropolis these sapient booksellers conceived poetical inspiration to extend, we are not informed".{{sfn|Davenport|1822|p=199}}

The first edition was not particularly successful, and there was no second edition of the work until 1747, when it was republished in Edinburgh.{{sfn|Davenport|1822|p=199}}  It's popularity grew gradually throughout the 18th century, however, in part because of the praise that it received from [[John Pinkerton|Pinkerton]] (in his 1786 ''Letters of Literature'', writing under the pseudonym of Robert Heron).{{sfn|Davenport|1822|p=200}}{{sfn|Johnstone|1827|p=135}}

Writing in 1822, [[Richard Alfred Davenport]] noted that the editor of ''British Poets'' spoke of the poem with "severity" and a "contemptuous tone".{{sfn|Davenport|1822|p=200}}  Danvenport contrasted this with the praise given by [[Thomas Campbell (poet)|Thomas Campbell]] in his biographical sketch of Blair in ''British Poets''.{{sfn|Davenport|1822|p=200}}  Campbell stated that "the eighteenth century has few specimens of blank verse of so powerful and so simple a character as that of ''The Grave''" and described the poem as popular "not merely because it is religious, but because its language and imagery are free, natural, and picturesque".{{sfn|Campbell|1819|p=204}}

Davenport himself went on to state that whilst the language "is occasionally familiar", echoing the charge of vulgarity levelled by the ''British Poets'' editor, "many of his similies, epithets, and detached expressions are eminently beautiful".{{sfn|Davenport|1822|p=201}}  He refuted the charge of vulgarity, and opined that perhaps "the general effect would be injured were more elevated expressions substituted".{{sfn|Davenport|1822|p=201}}

Campbell described Blair as having in his poetry "a masculine and pronounced character even in his gloom and homeliness that keeps it most distinctly apart from either dullness or vulgarity".{{sfn|Campbell|1819|p=204}}  Johnstone similarly stated that the poem "everywhere exhibits a manly and vigorous spirit; and if some of the detached sketches want the grace of colouring and the smoothness of beauty, the truth of their anatomy is unimpeachable, and the moral expression dignified and masculine".{{sfn|Johnstone|1827|p=136}}  However, Johnstone was not wholly positive in his criticism, observing that in the close of the poem there is "short-coming, if not absolute failure", with the final triumph of resurrection  over the powers of Death and Hell being "felt to be wanting".{{sfn|Johnstone|1827|p=139}}  Rather than "the rapturous exultation of the true poet", the close is "in that tone of sober confidence which might have found place in any eloquent sermon".{{sfn|Johnstone|1827|p=139}}
==== Publication by Cromek and Blake's illustrations ====
[[File:Illustrations to Robert Blair's The Grave , object 1 Title-Page Design for The Grave.jpg|thumb|left|Title page of Cromek's 1808 publication of ''The Grave'' with Blake's drawing engraved by Schiavonetti]]

The most famous publication of the poem was by [[Robert Hartley Cromek]], because of how it turned an initial friendship between Cromek and [[William Blake]] to acrimony, and in turn led to Blake's ''Public Address'' in which he criticized the work of engravers relative to that of illustrators for being as derivative as (amongst others) the translation of the works of [[Homer]] by [[Alexander Pope]] into rhyming couplets.{{sfn|Yoder|2001|p=26}}

Cromek, making his first venture into publication after giving up a career as an engraver, commissioned Blake for a series of illustrations for an edition of ''The Grave'' that he was to publish in 1808.  He commissioned from Blake, in 1805, forty illustrations, a selected twenty of which were to be engraved for the book.  Blake understood that he was also to do those engravings.  However, Cromek gave that work to [[Luigi Schiavonetti]].{{sfn|Review|1864|p=51}}{{sfn|Snart|2006|p=77}}{{sfn|Yoder|2001|p=26}}

Blake was angered by both Cromek and Schiavonetti.  Schiavonetti he re-christened "Assassinetti".{{sfn|Eaves|1992|p=262}}  Of Cromek he wrote in his notebook: "A petty Sneaking Knave I knew / O Mr Cr &mdash; &mdash;, how do ye do."{{sfn|Snart|2006|p=77}}  He was also stung both by the criticism by Robert Hunt, writing in ''The Examiner'' on July the 31st, 1808, to object to Blake's depiction of the soul as if it were nothing but the mortal body; and by the similar criticism in the November 1808 edition of the ''Anti-Jacobin Review'' which described his illustrations as "the offspring of morbid fancy" and an attempt "to connect the visible with the invisible world" that has "totally failed".{{sfn|Adams|2010|p=8}}{{sfn|Yoder|2001|p=26}}  It was this that almost certainly prompted him to ask, in his 1809 advertisement for ''A Descriptive Catalogue'', his only exhibition of his work in his lifetime, that people "do &#91;him&#93; the justice to examine before they decide".{{sfn|Adams|2010|p=8}}

Blake's biographer, Alexander Gilchrist, relates the tale opining that Cromek was right to employ the services of Schiavonetti, and that what Schiavonetti did was "a graceful translation and, as most would think, an improvement".  Had Schiavonetti been likewise employed to similarly transcribe Blake's ''Cantebury Pilgrims'' and alter it by "correct smooth touches" then "a different fate would have awaited the composition" from the somewhat lacklustre one that it actually enjoyed.{{sfn|Eaves|1992|p=262}}  He describes Blake's illustrations of ''The Grave'' using words such as "extremes", "ravings", and "wild"; a wildness that Schiavonetti tamed.{{sfn|Eaves|1992|p=263}}

However, this account was taken severely to task by the reviewer of Gilchrist's biography in ''The Westminster Review''.  The review questions Gilchrist's assertion that Cromek promised Blake the engraving work, and asks for more evidence of this given that Cromek would have known of the poor reception of Blake's engravings for Young's ''Night Thoughts''.  It questions the existence of Blake's design copyright, and challenges Gilchrist's assertion that Cromek "jockeyed" Blake out of it, especially given that Blake's quarrel with Cromek does not become apparent until longer after the illustrations were in the charge of Schiavonetti.{{sfn|Review|1864|p=51}}  Whilst agreeing that the illustrations were far the better for Schiavonetti's alterations, the reviewer accuses Gilchrist of "uncompromising partisanship" and a wholesale bias against and negative portrayal of Cromek.{{sfn|Review|1864|p=52}}

The most rounded account of the affair, and of Blake's subsequent dealing with Cromek and [[Thomas Stothard]] over the ''Canterbury Pilgrims'', is given by G. E. Bentley Jr (see {{harvnb|Bentley Jr|2013}}), who relates the opinions of all parties and attempts to summarize the evidence, which is both complex and inconclusive.{{sfn|Adams|2010|p=9}}

Blake's original watercolours were believed lost, until they were rediscovered in 2003.{{sfn|Crawford|2008|p=261}}
==== References ====
{{reflist|20em}}
===== Reference bibliography =====
{{refbegin}}
* {{cite book|ref=harv|title=The British Poets: Including Translations.|volume=58|author1-link=Richard Alfred Davenport|author1-first=Richard Alfred|author1-last=Davenport|publisher=C. Whittingham|location=Chiswick|year=1822|chapter=Blair}}
* {{cite book|ref=harv|title=Specimens of the British Poets: With Biographical and Critical Notices, and an Essay on English Poetry|volume=5|author1-link=Thomas Campbell (poet)|author1-first=Thomas|author1-last=Campbell|publisher=John Murray|location=London|year=1819|chapter=Robert Blair}}
* {{cite book|ref=harv|author1-first=R. Paul|author1-last=Yoder|chapter=Blake's Pope|title=Romantic Generations: Essays in Honor of Robert F. Gleckner|editor1-first=Ghislaine|editor1-last=McDayter|editor2-first=Guinn|editor2-last=Batten|editor3-first=Barry|editor3-last=Milligan|publisher=Bucknell University Press|year=2001|isbn=9780838754702}}
* {{cite book|ref=harv|title=Scotland's Books : A History of Scottish Literature: A History of Scottish Literature|author1-first=Robert|author1-last=Crawford|publisher=Oxford University Press|year=2008|isbn=9780199727674|chapter=Ever Green}}
* {{cite book|ref=harv|title=The Cambridge Companion to William Blake|series=Cambridge Companions to Literature|editor1-first=Morris|editor1-last=Eaves|publisher=Cambridge University Press|year=2003|isbn=9780521786775|chapter=The Political Aesthetic of Blake's Images|author1-first=Saree|author1-last=Makdisi}}
* {{cite book|ref=harv|title=Specimens of Sacred And Serious Poetry|author1-first=John|author1-last=Johnstone|year=1827|publisher=Oliver &amp; Boyd|location=Edinburgh|chapter=Memoir of Robert Blair}}
* {{cite book|ref=harv|title=The Counter-arts Conspiracy: Art and Industry in the Age of Blake|author1-first=Morris|author1-last=Eaves|publisher=Cornell University Press|year=1992|isbn=9780801424892|chapter=Technology}}
* {{cite book|ref=harv|title=The Torn Book: Unreading William Blake's Marginalia|author1-first=Jason Allen|author1-last=Snart|publisher=Susquehanna University Press|year=2006|isbn=9781575911090}}
* {{cite book|ref=harv|title=William Blake on His Poetry and Painting: A Study of A Descriptive Catalogue, Other Prose Writings and Jerusalem|author1-first=Hazard|author1-last=Adams|publisher=McFarland|year=2010|isbn=9780786484942}}
* {{cite magazine|ref={{harvid|Review|1864}}|title=The Westminster Review|volume=81|publisher=J.M. Mason|year=1864|chapter=Alexander Gilchrist's ''The Life of William Blake''}}
{{refend}}
==== Further reading ====
{{commonscat|The Grave - Watercolors by William Blake}}
{{wikisource|The Grave (Blair)|The Grave}}
* {{cite web|title=Illustrations to Robert Blair's "The Grave"|work=Blake Archive|url=http://www.blakearchive.org/exist/blake/archive/work.xq?workid=butwba10}}
* {{cite encyclopaedia|ref=harv|article=BLAIR, Robert|encyclopedia=A Blake Dictionary: The Ideas and Symbols of William Blake|author1-first=S. Foster|author1-last=Damon|publisher=UPNE|year=2013|isbn=9781611684438}}
* {{cite book|ref=harv|title=William Blake: The Critical Heritage|editor1-first=G.E.|editor1-last=Bentley Jr|publisher=Routledge|year=2013|isbn=9781134782352|chapter=Blair, ''The Grave''}}
* {{cite book|ref=harv|title=A Bibliographical Study of William Blake's Note-book|series=Studies in Blake|issue=3|author1-first=Bunshō|author1-last=Jugaku|publisher=Haskell House|year=1953|isbn=9780838310649}}
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:[[File:Doctor Who logo 1970-1973.jpg|40x40px|Doctor Who]] ''This article is a substub; you can help Wikipedia by putting all articles for creation on Drmies' user talk page.''
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== [[Nitro High School]] ==

I discovered this article after reverting an IP's vandalism to [[Ted Turner]] and noticing that the IP had also edited the school article. At that point the most recent action on the article was a revert, but the IP had edited the article just before the editor who had been reverted. So, I tried to find a cleaner earlier version and kept going further and further back until I gave up and looked at the article without the history. It was a total mess full of edits by IPs and SPAs and accounts that were just barely auto-confirmed. So, I gutted it. The only "source" in the article was a dead external link. I found the right external link and replaced it, but the right link wasn't really a link of the school itself, but at least it proved that the school existed.

Since my stubbing, not surprisingly, two editors with such classy names as [[User:Wvuiscool]] and [[User:WhatifArgentinawasreal]] have come along and added back in some of the crap. I can't do anything more on it or I'll be edit warring. Asking for semi-protection is useless because the accounts are auto-confirmed. So, perhaps some more editors looking at the article will help. One weird thing. The user with the Argentine name has only edited the school article, which is in West Virginia. The user with the "cool" name has edited the school article and [[Lionel Messi]], an Argentinian football player. What does that mean? Inverse socking?

Unrelated: [[TopNotch]], a Dutch record label tagged A7.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 00:54, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
:*Thanks for that--A7 removed, references added. :) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:26, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
:Bbb23, remember it isn't edit warring, or involved, when dealing with vandalism.  Page semi-d for a year and re-stubbed, most obvious VOA's blocked indef. --[[User:Floquenbeam|Floquenbeam]] ([[User talk:Floquenbeam|talk]]) 01:24, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
::I don't think I could ever be as bold as you were. Your housecleaning, and the speed in which it was done (especially considering the server issues we're having), was impressive. I just sat back and watched in awe. Did you notice this little gem in the lead: "Founded in 1917 as a federal school then bought by the county in 1723, Nitro is the oldest." Time travel strikes again.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 01:35, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
:::Oh you could. Floq is an old master, and totally not an a**hole (don't know how he feels about K-pop, though, and the consumerist society). I blocked that one IP as well, for 72 hours, for good measure. Toodles! [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 04:26, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
::::Drmies, in the context of Frodo crossing the river to Rivendell, Floq is Elrond and you are Gandalf.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 23:03, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::Thanks! But...wasn't Gandalf locked up in Moria or something when all that happened? My timeline is a little fuzzy, maybe, from all the Longbottom Leaf. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 15:15, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::Your timeline is more likely fuzzy because of the ale (seems like all hobbits did was drink alcohol and smoke weed). Gandalf fell in Moria after Rivendell. He was locked up in Orthanc by Saruman before Rivendell, but he was rescued before Frodo crossed the Bruinen. Elrond unleashes the Bruinen on the Black Riders sweeping them away, and Gandalf adds some touches of his own to the torrent.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 15:41, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Not Elrond, [[User:Floquenbeam/Policy-violating blog|Aragorn]]. --[[User:Floquenbeam|Floquenbeam]] ([[User talk:Floquenbeam|talk]]) 17:18, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::::Frodo: "Who made the flood?" Gandalf: "Elrond commanded it. The river of this valley is under his power, and it will rise in anger when he has great need to bar the Ford. As soon as the captain of the Ringwraiths rode into the water the flood was released. If I may so so, I added a few touches of my own". ''The Fellowship of the Ring'', pages 277-78.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 17:43, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::Ooooh someone got schooled in hobbit lore. Zing! I can't reread those books anymore; it's all just too sad. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:53, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::Sigh.  No, I meant, I'm not Elrond.  Follow the link. --[[User:Floquenbeam|Floquenbeam]] ([[User talk:Floquenbeam|talk]]) 18:51, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::::::LOL, I just ''assumed'' it was a link to the character. Nice story. Sorry about your dashed dreams.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 21:18, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::::Oh, yeah, and you ''are'' Elrond in ''this'' blocking story.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 21:19, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::::Haha Floq, that's sweet. Reminds me of the romance novel Mrs. Drmies started writing, which would make her rich. Never finished, never got rich either. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 22:01, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

== The Dutch think of everything ==
[[File:Autocue teleprompter.jpg|thumb|Autocu... something]]
[[autocunnilingus|This is a redlink]]. [[:nl:autocunnilingus|This is not]]. Any questions? (Seriously, imagine the DYK for something like that!)&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 07:17, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
:*It seems to be saying that it hasn't been shown to exist, but if it did exist it might not be worth doing. Is all Dutch sex life like this? [[User:Xanthomelanoussprog|Xanthomelanoussprog]] ([[User talk:Xanthomelanoussprog|talk]]) 08:39, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
::{{tps}} OK, from Google news so far I've found a [http://www.mdzol.com/nota/175176/ reference] from [[MDZ Online]], another from Slovakian newspaper [[Pluska.sk]] (no article to show it's a reliable source just means it hasn't been written yet), and from G-Books [http://books.google.com.au/books?id=tc3NGR55OsUC&dq=%22Autocunnilingus%22&source=gbs_navlinks_s one by a Professor at Johns Hopkins], [http://books.google.com.au/books?id=9TVHAAAAMAAJ&q=%22Autocunnilingus%22&dq=%22Autocunnilingus%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=A8oyUtXcD8mViAe5n4CICQ&ved=0CGsQ6AEwCw something published by Michigan University Press], [http://books.google.com.au/books?id=ymkYAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA49&dq=%22Autocunnilingus%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=A8oyUtXcD8mViAe5n4CICQ&ved=0CI4BEOgBMBE another book published by UMich Press]... {hmmm... the Beach Boys apparently didn't hear about ''those'' Midwest farmers' daughters...) --[[User:Shirt58|Shirt58]] ([[User talk:Shirt58|talk]]) 08:55, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
:::<small>There are quite a few educational videos that show this wondrous act. So I hear. -- [[User:Hillbillyholiday81|Hillbillyholiday]] <sup>[[User talk:Hillbillyholiday81|talk]]</sup> 09:54, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
:::I look forward to the infobox [[L'Arianna|''(example pictured)'']]. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 10:12, 13 September 2013 (UTC)</small>
::::*That ''Complete Dictionary'' looks useful, shame I have no preview. ''Pleasure'' mentions that the act has been recorded in animals, whilst ''Language'' (I'm sure that was a pair of cunning linguists!) is nothing but a dicdef. I like MDZ's take: requires much free time to learn, perfect for acrobats.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 10:29, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
*Speaking of seriously--don't you all have better things to do than to post embarrassing stuff on my talk page? See if Google translates "een zoute bek halen" for you. I think my brother still uses that expression. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:44, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
**A salty mouth? That's... no comment.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 13:56, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
***Says the man who started this this savory conversation. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:07, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
****See, it's my way to manipulate you. You hate redlinks, so you get to look at the sources to fill 'em in. I get to stay a prude. Win-win?&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 14:17, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
*****No, I'm still working on [[TopNotch]], and then I'm writing a little article for {{U|Hafspajen}}. You can have this one yourself, and its 15,000 DYK hits. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:21, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
******Oh darn. I'll have to see what kind of 1500 characters I can get. After I finish a [[Niniek L. Karim|more important subject]], naturally.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 14:26, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
*******Let's see how many for the [[:de:Robert Phelps|translation]] of an article by a banned editor, yesterday 11k+, on the Main page today also (in Germany you get 48 hours). Would be good in Dutch and Indonesian also. 8 hours only for [[Selly Manor|the article]] of an almost banned editor, - I take the niceties arbcom had to offer me, happy we can continue, --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 14:34, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
******** Gentlemen, enough with the strong language, please! There are ladies present. Gerda, enough with the strong language, please! There are shy internet blokes who blush easily present. --[[User:Shirt58|Shirt58]] ([[User talk:Shirt58|talk]]) 15:04, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
*********(ec) Strong? The mathematician for Dutch and Indonesian? "Almost banned"? "Niceties"? - Did you know how many occurrences of "blush" there are on my talk? (First guess, then check.) Did you know how many occurrences of "AGF" are on the last discussion of the arbcom case? (Link almost at the bottom) - Crisco, thanks again for increasing that number! --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 15:16, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
********Oh, at least keep your shirt on.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 15:10, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
*********[[So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish|So long, and thanks for all the]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Animal_sexual_behaviour&curid=1787105&diff=572767643&oldid=572114561 ''eels''?] -- [[User:Hillbillyholiday81|Hillbillyholiday]] <sup>[[User talk:Hillbillyholiday81|talk]]</sup> 15:20, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
**********Indeed, that's my favourite part of the book!&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 23:51, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::*Three books ordered via interlibrary loan, including the ''Complete Dictionary of Sexology'' and Crowley's ''Eight Lectures on Yoga''. Now to check JSTOR. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 15:50, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::*The only thing we care about is pictures. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:26, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::*You admin kids have seen the history, no doubt. It is venerable. Found pictures [http://www.panb.ru/2005-06/2005-06-02-self-lick.jpg here] and [http://www.erosblog.com/2006/01/07/ here], the latter maybe from the [[Pierre Louÿs]] collection. And Madonna gets [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5OPMI13qng pretty close] in this video. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:32, 13 September 2013 (UTC) 
:::::::*I hadn't looked, and I was disappointed at the quality of the previous efforts. However, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2013_August_18#Autocunnilingus this is an extraordinary deletion discussion]. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 20:02, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::::*That Jackmcbarn really has no sense of humor. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:02, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::::*Shame blogs aren't RSes. [http://autocunnilingus.blog.com/2013/05/20/autocunnilingus-just-a-myth-or-erotic-reality/ This] was enlightening.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 23:55, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

While I believe Drmies and I met over a related article, I think I'll stay out of this one. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 20:57, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
*Well, Drmies, Jackmcbarn has "humor" on his user page. There's this userbox, and it says "Don't click this userbox", and if you click it, you get ''logged out''! That's funny right? Ha. Ha, ha!  [[User:Cullen328|'''<span style="color:green;">Cullen</span>'''<sup style="color:purple;">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:blue;">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 05:56, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Autocunnilingus&diff=next&oldid=574076052 WikiProject Sexuality is easy]. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 18:47, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
[[Icelandic Phallological Museum]]

===Now this is fun: take the troll ball and run with it===
[[Troll cat]] is up, and this needs to get to the front page. I have a DYK review to donate. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 15:38, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
*I appreciate all the help, lazy bums. {{U|Hafspajen}}, I've been searching the Norwegian wikis for an article on the topic but couldn't find one. Can you peruse the Scandiwikis to see if there's anything there? I'd love to have a picture... [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 18:38, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
**It's a redlinked See also at [[:no:Dradukke]] and an example in the lede at [[:sv:Bjära]] (also several hits on sv. for "trollkatter", all reporting the same accusation of witchcraft). Can't find it on is. or da. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 19:48, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
***Thanks. So we do have [[Tilberi]], which is related; I'll employ that. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 20:10, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
[[File:Mjölkhare efter kalkmålning i Härkeberga kyrka.jpg|thumb]]
I doubt there's any way to make use of this pic ... [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 20:21, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
*Don't know; I saw it too. It's cute. Hey Yngvadottir, did you see the red link for [[Hug (folklore)]]? I don't know if that's the best name, and it's also called ''hugr''. Can yo make hay of it? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 20:24, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
I don't know if you've seen [http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XcMwFeKg_mQC&pg=PA120&lpg=PA120&dq=nordic+folklore,+troll+cat&source=bl&ots=LqaqfRFkZH&sig=hkdUR1zMNJjB0dFqwpG6rKDqQGw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pnUzUp-wNonVsgbPz4HoBA&ved=0CDcQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=nordic%20folklore%2C%20troll%20cat&f=false this book] about Nordic folklore; it's referred to as 'hugham'. Looks like the same authors as the book you already have but you might get something from it? [[User:Sagaciousphil|<span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 12pt">SagaciousPhil</span></span>]] - [[User Talk:Sagaciousphil|<span style="font-family: Century Gothic; font-size:10pt">'''Chat'''</span>]] 20:40, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
**I might have a conflict of interest there (I don't restrict that to money matters). I'll sniff around. But I also have a public baying for me to get on with translating [[:de:Anthropomorphe Pfahlgötter|this]]. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 20:43, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
***You have my interest. Talk on. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 21:18, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
***Phil, I don't get it. I think hug is the psyche and hugham a specific material expression of it; the book does not clear that up. But I have Kvideland and Sehmsdorf here and have found that to be useful. Also, the idea was that Y. write this article! Not me! I'm #546 on the [[Wikipedia:List of Wikipedians by article count]]--isn't that enough? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 21:25, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
***{{tps}}  Well, I'm definitely interested in improving this article, if only because it is hilarious.  I've added some small details already and will continue looking about. [[User:I JethroBT|<span style="color:green; font-family:Candara;"><b>I, JethroBT</b></span>]][[User talk:I JethroBT| <sup>drop me a line</sup>]] 21:58, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
(outdenting rather than trying to figure out the relevant indention level) See [[Hu (mythology)]], which is Egyptian. [[Hu]] is already a disambiguation page. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 03:28, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
* What kind of a little article for Hafspajen? The rabbit who steal the milk? [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 20:25, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
**Yep! Scandinavian fun. And I found that one book cited in the article, Kvideland and Sehmsdorf, while I was looking for material on Vissefjarda, and ordered it through Interlibrary Loan. It's fun. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 21:59, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
:::Nice! My Vissefjarda was impossible to find. [[User:Hafspajen| Warrington still]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 20:25, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
::::My kids love the troll cat, and the milk hare as well. Actually, Rosie calls it "milk haas", combining Dutch and English. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:46, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
:::*Du you speak Dutch at home? [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 19:18, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

== Salah Edin ==

Restored - though I would not have been offended if you had done it yourself. Regards, [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 14:39, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
*Thanks! Shoot, you're fast--I was just planning a little nap. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:46, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
**I'm beginning to see a pattern here...--[[User:Ukexpat|ukexpat]] ([[User talk:Ukexpat|talk]]) 00:29, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

== If you have a second..... ==

If you don't mind, could you take a look at this discussion and see if I'm off the reservation? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Hells_Angels#This_piece_of_news_is_very_inportant_and_should_be_included_with_the_Nevada_hells_angels_this_child_porn_transporter_is_the_Nevada_leader]. I think I'm on the right track, but wouldn't mind if you checked me to be sure. [[User:Niteshift36|Niteshift36]] ([[User talk:Niteshift36|talk]]) 18:24, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

== Mandarant ==

I hope you can forgive me, but [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Tyus_Jones&diff=next&oldid=572905308 I removed your DYK nomination credit]. It irked me that someone would try to exploit their block by trying to gain the benefit of a review exemption.

I never comment on users or blocks, but this one has stirred me. Calling someone a racist with absolutely no justification is one of the worst personal attacks. (About the only thing worse that I can imagine is saying that someone's a racist child molester.) It's much, much worse than the kind of expletive-filled attacks which earn people indefinite blocks all the time.

In addition to the extreme harm such outrageous, unfounded accusations may do to the victim of the attacks, someone essentially saying "boo hoo, I didn't get my way; you're a racist" is exceedingly disrespectful of the people who have suffered from oppression and violence because of actual, not-made-up racism.

If you need proof that there isn't a shred of evidence to support the racist charge see the [[Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 58#Michigan basketball overload, part 2|DYK talk]] from three years ago, where he angrily accuses a user of racist motivations, when in fact he had completely misunderstood what that user was saying, which was actually a friendly offer to generously allow his DYKs to proceed without further scrutiny. After that incident and [[Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 80#DYK date request|another]] spurious accusation of racism at DYK, I watchlisted his redlinked RfA #4 so that I could oppose. That was the first and only time I ever did something like that. Since he appears to be obsessed with trophy collecting, I figured it was only a matter of time before he once again sought adminship. Of course, after this latest brouhaha and blocks, I don't think even he would be foolhardy enough to ever seek The Mop again.

{{small|Incidentally, when I say "racist child molester", I mean a child molester who is racist, not a molester of racist children.}} [[User:Mandarax|<span style="color:green">M<small>AN</small>d<small>ARAX</small></span>]]&nbsp;<span style="color:blue">•</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandarax|<span style="color:#999900"><small>XAЯA</small>b<small>ИA</small>M</span>]] 00:15, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
*Wait--now I understand what "Drmies, thanks. I think third party nominations go forward without reviews" means. I only glanced at it briefly and was preoccupied elsewhere (Roll tide!). Ha. I was about to have to try and figure out what I felt, but now that I understand what you were doing I can only thank you for doing the right thing.<p>As for the rest, I think you know me well enough; I prefer to think of the glass as half-full, of education as the means to enlightenment, of pacifism as the way to world peace. I also like to distinguish between the sinner and the sin, to put it in religious terms. I left a note on his talk page but didn't see the need to pile on (I also commented in a preceding ANI thread): let me just say that I thought the charge was silly and unfounded (besides that it was leveled also at my good friend Crisco who, I hope, understands why I helped Tony with his DYK). I hope this suffices; I'm sure you don't think of me as an apologist for the behavior that led to his block. If it doesn't suffice, drop me a line and we'll talk privately. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:58, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
:*I have not the slightest problem with anything you did. I was putting it very mildly when I said I was "irked" by the attempt to use a block&nbsp;– especially a block of that nature&nbsp;– to his advantage. (It would set a dangerous precedent: anyone could weasel out of DYK reviews by getting blocked and having someone else take care of the nomination!) I apologize that after simply informing you what I did with the nomination, I then went on to disturb the serenity of your happy place. [[User:Mandarax|<span style="color:green">M<small>AN</small>d<small>ARAX</small></span>]]&nbsp;<span style="color:blue">•</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandarax|<span style="color:#999900"><small>XAЯA</small>b<small>ИA</small>M</span>]] 01:37, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
::*Oh, my place is happy enough, though it was a close call. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:49, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
:::*I didn't realize exactly what you meant by "close call" until I checked the scores. 49–42. Congrats! [[User:Mandarax|<span style="color:green">M<small>AN</small>d<small>ARAX</small></span>]]&nbsp;<span style="color:blue">•</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandarax|<span style="color:#999900"><small>XAЯA</small>b<small>ИA</small>M</span>]] 09:11, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
::::*Thanks! I know you hate sports, so I really appreciate it. Ha, someone on Sports Center, a day or two ago, must have misspoken when the referred to this game as "this year's game of the century". Yesterday morning someone was jabbering about "game of the millennium". I gotta tell you, I was at Alabama during the lean years (late 1990s, early 2000s), and this feels much better. Watching Nick Saban coach over the years is like watching some craftsman at work, like a blacksmith or a carpenter.<p>BTW, speaking of racism (of the non-imaginary kind), there is enormous fall-out from [http://cw.ua.edu/2013/09/11/the-final-barrier-50-years-later-segregation-still-exists/ this article] in ''[[The Crimson White]]''. It's always funny to see how officials have to discover a truth that's been staring them in the face for decades (a truth many of them participated in: there's a straight line from the [[The Machine|Machine-controlled]] SGA to the Alabama capitol; just ask [[Bryan Taylor (politician)|Bryan Taylor]]) and then respond as if it's news, and a terrible thing. Oh no! We segregate on our campus? But that's terrible! Not to mention that [[George Wallace|I have a black friend!]] [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:44, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::*I certainly wouldn't say I hate sports. But I do prefer individual over team sports. During the Olympics, I was literally glued to the TV. (Some solvent helped.)<p>I'm amused that the publication reporting on that is called ''The Crimson White''. I always wondered why comedian [[George Wallace (American comedian)|George Wallace]] didn't change his name, but, looking at his article, I see that he's "integrated" the name thing into his routine. [[User:Mandarax|<span style="color:green">M<small>AN</small>d<small>ARAX</small></span>]]&nbsp;<span style="color:blue">•</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandarax|<span style="color:#999900"><small>XAЯA</small>b<small>ИA</small>M</span>]] 20:12, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

== April Fools ==

Can you keep a look on [[April Fools' Day]]? There's copyvio being added by one user regularly; I'd take care of it myself but the user has been soapboaxing on [[Talk:India]] where I'm active so I'm not going to take action here. And I'm glad that the lab's welcoming your visitors too. cheers. &mdash;[[User:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#BA181F;">Spaceman</span>]]'''[[User_talk:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#2B18BA;">Spiff</span>]]''' 04:52, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
*Am watchlisting.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 04:58, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
**Dank je, Crisco. &mdash;[[User:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#BA181F;">Spaceman</span>]]'''[[User_talk:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#2B18BA;">Spiff</span>]]''' 05:04, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

== Premature Prep promotion of ''Pindakaasvloer'' ==

I just noticed that the ''[[Pindakaasvloer]]''/''[[Torentje van Drienerlo]]'' hook has been moved to [[Template:Did you know/Preparation area 4|Prep 4]]. Are you okay with that running independent of the other Schippers hooks? The person who promoted it probably didn't notice your request for consecutive Schippers days. Just be aware that if you ask it be pulled so that your request could be honored, there's no guarantee that that ''would'' actually happen. Also, the hook is currently the lead, and there's no guarantee that it would occupy that spot again if it was pulled and replaced later. Although I'm a co-conspirator on the hook, it doesn't matter to me either way. [[User:Mandarax|<span style="color:green">M<small>AN</small>d<small>ARAX</small></span>]]&nbsp;<span style="color:blue">•</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandarax|<span style="color:#999900"><small>XAЯA</small>b<small>ИA</small>M</span>]] 09:41, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
*That's fine with me, Mandarax. Thanks for your diligence. Being the lead is good, no? Better one pindakaas-smeared bird in the hand, with a stone, than ten at a Bush concert. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:34, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

== Help...... ==
[[File:The Birth of Pegasus and Chrysaor 1876-1885 Edward Burne-Jones.jpg|thumb| Dr Mies see what can happen it you do the tings you promise on your userpage...The Birth of Pegasus and Chrysaor  [[Edward Burne-Jones]].]]
Could someone fix ref #13 in [[The Sand-Covered Church]], please? We found the ref but it's presently a bare url - I can't translate well enough to fill in the required parameters as reflinks isn't fixing it. [[User:Sagaciousphil|<span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 12pt">SagaciousPhil</span></span>]] - [[User Talk:Sagaciousphil|<span style="font-family: Century Gothic; font-size:10pt">'''Chat'''</span>]] 16:23, 15 September 2013 (UTC) <small> actually, I can't translate at all! </small>

Would this do: Ministry of the Environment of Denmark, department : Naturstyrelsen, Inquiry or on the account of the road to be built and the inpact on the enviroment, or various types of enviroments in Ålbeck-Skagen? More than this I can't help, but this is what it is about. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 16:34, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

*OK have a look now, is that what was needed? [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 17:29, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
**Thank you both - it looks fine to me! [[User:Sagaciousphil|<span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 12pt">SagaciousPhil</span></span>]] - [[User Talk:Sagaciousphil|<span style="font-family: Century Gothic; font-size:10pt">'''Chat'''</span>]] 17:47, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
*Thanks. What is wrong with that grass? I cut mine ages ago. It won't grow any more. How about yours? And Yngvadottir should mean the doughter of Yngve, no? [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 17:54, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
**M. Ing's Army Brat Daughter has more important things to worry about than the grass on your lawn.  Get off your lawn.  [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 19:32, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
* Uncle, don't get me dissapointed. She was complaining about 'her' lawn, right? But in the edit summary... At least  so she said  [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 09:53, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

== Timing is everything ==

All the attention at ANI seems to be focused on John and Brad Pitt. Just because there's a topic about alleged misconduct by an admin, coupled with a male sex symbol, is no reason for everyone to go gaga. Meanwhile, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Disruptive_promotion my little topic] is sitting there, unsexy, not particularly interesting, but nonetheless important to world peace, climate change, overpopulation, and [[Trombiculidae|human rights]].--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 22:47, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
*Oh, did I miss something exciting? I'm watching the [[Manning Bowl (American football)|Manning Bowl]] and grilling at the same time, so I'm in and out. Is John not a sex symbol? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 22:59, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
:*I wouldn't know. I've never seen John, and the picture of a plane on his user page is not helpful. At least you have a dog with tongue sticking out. In any event, you and your talk page stalkers (present company excepted) are the experts on sex symbols. Oh, yes, no, there's nothing else, and thank you very much for taking time away from your grilling and bowling.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 23:18, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
::*You're welcome--that was easy. Hey, you still haven't written [[Manning Bowl (American football)|Manning Bowl]]? I'm watching ''Columbo''. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:45, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
:::*Just got through watching a 1963 episode of ''The Hitchcock Hour'' with John Forsythe and a group of well-known character actors. It had a great Hitchcock twist ending. I'm now off to bed. I'll write Manning Bowl as soon as I finish the other three football articles I'm working on. In one a <s>half ass</s>halfback sings an aria from ''Siegfried'' during the third act stretch.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 03:31, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

== My ban from Writ Keeper is over and you deleted our little discussion from you Talk Page (self censorship) ==

You may be admin but you would have lost the argument on moral and philosophical grounds. Rules are not morals and guidelines are not philosophical questions. Shame you don't like the idea of democratic practices being applied to this site. Even your dog would agree with me on that point and he has the mental age of two. lol

Still no hard feelings. Onwards and forwards.

[[User:Sluffs|Sluffs]] ([[User talk:Sluffs|talk]]) 23:35, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

I just looked at your user page and you are Dutch. I've stayed in Bussum three times - I have a friend who lives there. Very nice country - the people are a bit too straightforward in their language for English sensibilities. Makes sense of your "fucking dumb ass paranoid" statement. Try to refrain from swearing in the future - its an English swear word anyway and we reserve it for war and serous situations. 
Basically if an Englishman uses the F word seriously it generally means they are really annoyed and are considering physical action beyond the law against you.

[[User:Sluffs|Sluffs]] ([[User talk:Sluffs|talk]]) 23:54, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

::{{tps}}You're funny. I have seen drmies converse with an Englishman ''in person'', and they understood each other perfectly well. . Your statement that such language is not really used by English persons is complete horseshit. If you would like to be blocked again, by all means keep up this foolish behavior. Otherwise I strongly suggest youy [[WP:STICK|let it go]]. [[User:Beeblebrox|Beeblebrox]] ([[User talk:Beeblebrox|talk]]) 00:57, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
*Why would I care what an Englishman means when he uses "the F word"? BTW, I said "fucking bullshit paranoia of the dumb kind". "Dumb ass" would be hyphenated since used attributively. I don't need language lessons from those who think they're chased by bots, thank you very much, and I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words in my dog's mouth: she licks things that are worth more than your advice. Now stay away from my talk page. Beeblebrox, I remember that day. That was a high-powered table setting. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:44, 16 September 2013 (UTC)


I've placed a one month block on Sluffs.  For not only insulting Writ Keeper, but also for his next edit he did after the remarks above. From [[Talk:Bob Marley]], "The dutch were great slavers. That is something often forgotten in the mist of history and who are the apartheid guys - well they were the dutch who settled in South Africa. Of course those facts are not the reason I want to remove the image. Just a little reminder that legalizing herb doesn't mean the dutch are nice people - its just means they found a new way to make money other than enslaving others."  I don't think the two edits are coincidence. [[User:Bgwhite|Bgwhite]] ([[User talk:Bgwhite|talk]]) 05:20, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
*Thanks Bg. Next up, a rant on admin abuse, abrogation of freedom of speech, etc., followed by either an indef block or a talk page block, or both. Thanks for keeping an eye out--I'm signing off. Say hi to Mandarax if he's still wandering about the halls. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 05:22, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
:*Well, of course I am; don't be ridiculous. Bg, it's a coincidence that the subject of slavery came up, as I was just talking about that. You'll know what I mean soon enough. Oh, I think I've said too much already. [[User:Mandarax|<span style="color:green">M<small>AN</small>d<small>ARAX</small></span>]]&nbsp;<span style="color:blue">•</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandarax|<span style="color:#999900"><small>XAЯA</small>b<small>ИA</small>M</span>]] 11:00, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

== Censorship!!!!1!111!  And bias!!11!1!!!! ==
[[File:Illustrations to Robert Blair's The Grave , object 9 The Soul Hovering over the Body.jpg|thumb|right|'''Did you know &hellip;''' that this illustration flatly contradicts the poem?]]
[[File:Illustrations to Robert Blair's The Grave , object 1 Title-Page Design for The Grave.jpg|thumb|left|'''Did you know &hellip;''' that Drmies is a nude dancer?]]
[[File:Illustrations to Robert Blair's The Grave , object 11 The Descent of Man into the Vale of Death.jpg|thumb|right|'''Did you know &hellip;''' that the illustrations were re-used for another work in 1826?  And that they were published separately as a book in their own right?]]
[[File:Illustrations to Robert Blair's The Grave , object 14 The Death of the Good Old Man.jpg|thumb|left|'''Did you know &hellip;''' that it was possibly Cromek's widow who had Blake's dedicatory poem moved in the 1813 edition?]]
On the subject of censorship and bias, our account of [[Descriptive Catalogue (1809)]] is not in accordance with modern scholarship on the matter, and is non-neutral.  Per {{harvnb|Adams|2010|p=8}}, it is ''Blake's view'' that he was betrayed.  There's even an opposing view, albeit one not widely held, that Blake plagiarized Stothard.  I recommend {{harvnb|Adams|2010}} in the expansion of [[Descriptive Catalogue (1809)]], and I recommend {{harvnb|Damon|2013}} in the expansion of [[The Grave (poem)]], not least because there are some far more interesting hooks to be had.  What I gave to you, after all, was just a measly substub.  To the watching copyeditors, I commend {{tl|italictitle}}.<p>[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 07:46, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
*Your measly (miesly) substub goes much farther and deeper (TWSS) than I could muster without extensive reading so I'll leave it to the editathon folks. I'll ping {{U|Sadads}}, who might also have an interest in your comment on [[Descriptive Catalogue (1809)]] for his project. Thanks Uncle, and have a great day! (Mine got off to a good start: both girls ate their breakfast and were very helpful and sweet this morning.) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:56, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
*:Thanks {{ping|Uncle G}} that substub is awesome, I will make sure to include you in a DYK nom! Do you have any recommendations for the DYK hook? The recommendation on research will be taken into account, and I will take a look at [[Descriptive Catalogue (1809)]]. Also, feel free to keep working on the list of awesome things related to [[WP:Blake#To do|our massive gaps in Blake related content]]. It seems that we have bunches of gaps as compared to the consensus scholarship, [[User:Sadads|Sadads]] ([[User talk:Sadads|talk]]) 14:13, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
::*Already up, but feel free to tweak: [[Template:Did you know nominations/The Grave (poem)]]. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:23, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

==DYK for Pindakaasvloer==
{{tmbox
|style = notice
|small = 
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#16 September 2013|16 September 2013]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Pindakaasvloer]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that Dutch artist [[Wim T. Schippers]] is responsible for '''''[[Pindakaasvloer]]''''', a {{convert|4|x|12|m|adj=on}} floor covered in peanut butter, and '''''[[Torentje van Drienerlo]]''''' ''(pictured)'', a church spire sticking up from a pond?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Pindakaasvloer]]. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201309/Pindakaasvloer quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 08:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

==DYK for Torentje van Drienerlo==
{{tmbox
|style = notice
|small = 
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#16 September 2013|16 September 2013]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Torentje van Drienerlo]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that Dutch artist [[Wim T. Schippers]] is responsible for '''''[[Pindakaasvloer]]''''', a {{convert|4|x|12|m|adj=on}} floor covered in peanut butter, and '''''[[Torentje van Drienerlo]]''''' ''(pictured)'', a church spire sticking up from a pond?''  You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201309/Torentje_van_Drienerlo quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 08:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
:Congratulations! This hook got almost eight thousand hits, and I've {{diff2|573541465|added it to the Stats page}}. [[User:Mandarax|<span style="color:green">M<small>AN</small>d<small>ARAX</small></span>]]&nbsp;<span style="color:blue">•</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandarax|<span style="color:#999900"><small>XAЯA</small>b<small>ИA</small>M</span>]] 19:38, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

== '''Elephant Parade'''  ==

[[Elephant Parade]], now what was that? All pictures are gone? Elephant Parade, now what was that? All pictures are gone? [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 09:59, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
*[[Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Elephant Parade, Emmen (2010)]]... [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:49, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
* Sure, but those were good pictures. Why delete them? There is nothing to explain the stuff... [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 14:12, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
**Dutch law about artworks, apparently: [[:commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Elephant Parade, Emmen (2010)]] I agree, a great pity. I've tried to find a clear statement that the artists don't actually make the sculptures, just decorate them, but haven't. However, the article does now have more refs than it did. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 14:18, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
::*Well, we  have to find some consolation in that,  more refs than it did. How is your lawn? 
:::*I don't get it, [[:commons::FOP#Netherlands]], if grafitti and sculptures in public places are OK, what is wrong than with those animals? Wish a Dutch would look into this closer. HERE, all the stuff in Dutch http://www.ivir.nl/wetten/nl/auteurswet_01_04_2006.html


**''Article 18 is limited to works that were originally made for being placed permanently in public places. The literature mentions that this would also apply to graffiti, even if these normally are removed rather quickly.<ref name="spoor_et_al"/> This is consistent with the interpretation of "permanent" e.g. in Germany as explained [[#Permanent vs temporary|above]]; the "natural lifetime" of a graffito is considered to end with its removal. Furthermore, the picture must show the work as it appears in the public place. (A photograph showing a sculpture in its surroundings is OK. Cutting out the sculpture and using only the image of the sculpture is not covered by article 18.)<ref name="Engelfriet"/> Dutch legislature seems to favor a strict interpretation of the [[:en:Berne three-step test|Berne three-step test]]; parliament mentioned that creating and selling a postcard from a close-up photo of a copyrighted sculpture (i.e., without the surroundings, not showing the sculpture in context) was not allowed.<ref name="kamerstuk_28_482_5"/>[[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 14:25, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
*I mean that  if is consistent with the interpretation of "permanent" e.g. in Germany as explained [[#Permanent vs temporary|above]]; the "natural lifetime" of a graffito is considered to end with its removal. So was also with those Elephants. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 15:20, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

== Hermann DYK ==

I made an alternate hook suggestion. See what you think. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 20:03, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
:Hah, I think someone once thought I was English, partly because of an -ise spelling I'd used on my userpage somewhere. There was really no thought involved in that (unlike when you see me use the non-typical for an American spellings of judg'''e'''ment, acknowledg'''e'''ment, etc. - I hate Noah Webster's change to that group of words). <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 21:42, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
::I also prefer them ''with'' the "'''e'''".<p>I didn't notice [[Template:Did you know nominations/John P. Hermann]] until now. (Notifications still aren't generated for mentions in Template space.) First of all, Drmies, I'm going to declare that accusing me of swooping is a personal attack. And secondly, I dunno what the dot dot dot means. Unless you intended to say "Mandarax is going to swoop by and say ... that accusations of swooping are personal attacks", I have no idea what you thought I'd swoop by and do. Oh, and since when do you worry about ruffling feathers? [[User:Mandarax|<span style="color:green">M<small>AN</small>d<small>ARAX</small></span>]]&nbsp;<span style="color:blue">•</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandarax|<span style="color:#999900"><small>XAЯA</small>b<small>ИA</small>M</span>]] 09:12, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
:::"...and insert the word 'allegedly{{'-}}". That Machine, Mandarax, is still a powerful outfit. Some of those rich white boys' parents probably live in my neighborhood and might key my Camry. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:15, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
::::Ah. No, I only did that when I wanted to prevent supernatural phenomena (not subhuman behavior) from being reported as fact on the Main Page, whether it's 14 ghosts inhabiting a house or a ball of wood shavings and blood coming to life by invoking Satan. [[User:Mandarax|<span style="color:green">M<small>AN</small>d<small>ARAX</small></span>]]&nbsp;<span style="color:blue">•</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandarax|<span style="color:#999900"><small>XAЯA</small>b<small>ИA</small>M</span>]] 18:44, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

== [[Template:Did you know nominations/Going to the Dogs]] ==

Drmies, are you going to add the premiere date for ''Going to the Dogs'' to the article? We're getting to the point where the nomination needs to be in the special holding area, since the second prep area to be filled after the current ones will be the one for September 19 Europe daytime, which I'm assuming would be best. I've been holding off reinstating the approval for the revised hook until the article has been updated, but I don't want to wait too long. Please let me know! Many thanks. [[User:BlueMoonset|BlueMoonset]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonset|talk]]) 23:37, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
*Yes, sorry. Done. Wait--''[[The Montreal Gazette]]'' says 20 September--right?
:*I think it ran for three performances on two days. Using the sources from your own article: ''The Christian Science Monitor''{{'s}} article is dated September 19, and says "first (and quite possibly last) three performances tonight and tomorrow night", which would presumably mean performances on 19 and 20 September. ''Toledo Blade''{{'s}} review, from Reuters, says "Saturday night" and "world premiere"; the 20th was a Saturday night according to one of the online date-to-day sites. (The Montreal source is also from Reuters, and has some identical paragraphs to the later Toledo article, but using "tonight" is always dicey.) The LATimes report is dated 21 September, which means the play would have opened before then. As for possibly less reliable sources, [http://www.geocities.ws/jakuiper2004/going.htm this one] actually states 19 September, and mentions an extra late show (which would explain the three performances claim in the ''Monitor'', if there were two the first night and one the second); [http://www.artlyst.com/events/going-to-the-dogs-a-play-written-by-wim-t-schippers-s-p-a-c-e this source] looks reasonably reliable, about a 2012 exhibition on the 1986 production, and very clearly lists September 19th. [http://www.hummelinckstuurman.nl/nieuws/Herdershond_Ilja_in_portrettengalerij_Stadsschouwburg_Amsterdam/207/ This link] might be reliable, but since I don't know the language, I can't judge; it also says September 19. I'm beginning to think that it may indeed be the 19th. Why don't you do a little more investigating, and nail it down to your satisfaction. Thanks. [[User:BlueMoonset|BlueMoonset]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonset|talk]]) 04:26, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
::*{{tps}} Yup, that last Dutch source very clearly states world premiere on the 19th. Also "The six German Shepherds wandered restlessly around the stage, sniffed, barked, relieved themselves and looked at the TV. According to Schippers his 'actors' adhered meticulously to the script, but most of the audience were not totally convinced." Hmm. Too many critics. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 05:47, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
:::*19 September it is, then. So the dog got his portrait added to the row of famous actors in the [[Stadsschouwburg Amsterdam]]... Thanks, to both of you. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:11, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
::::*Then I'll let you fix the article (swap in the last Dutch source, which I'm assuming is reliable or Yngvadottir would have said otherwise, for the Montreal source), and I'll approve and move the nom. Thanks! [[User:BlueMoonset|BlueMoonset]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonset|talk]]) 16:02, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::'''Follow-up''': I changed my mind. I made the 19 September fix and added the date and sold-out theater to the Reception section so the source citations can go there rather than in the lede. The only thing to do is to add the last Dutch source citation to the Christian Science Monitor and Sunday Herald, as a confirmation on the 19 September date, but as it stands now I can approve it as soon as I'm done writing this, and move it to the special occasion holding area. [[User:BlueMoonset|BlueMoonset]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonset|talk]]) 16:12, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::Thanks BlueMoonset. I added the reference, which allowed me to list another factoid in the article--the portrait of the lead actress. I really appreciate all your help with this. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:27, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::You're welcome, Drmies. I was pleased to see that it was promoted to a lead hook position, something I didn't expect: it'll run starting at 1800 local Netherlands time on the 19th (so it'll be on the main page at the time when the premiere would have begun), and I really like the new factoid. [[User:BlueMoonset|BlueMoonset]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonset|talk]]) 20:16, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

== ITNN ==

If you want to comment at the ANI report please do so.  But I cannot see any reason for your reverting a good faith edit at a solution to which none of the parties involved has objected. 02:02, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
*It was not a good edit. You're crying "racism" where there is none. I already commented at the ANI thread. I'm an admin, so occasionally I feel the need to throw my weight around--and now I'm being repressed. I may start an ANI thread in response to your personal attacks. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:06, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

== Perry Belcher ==

There is verifiable content that the author publishes books. ISBN Numbers are verifiable aren't they?  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Peacelovepeacelove|Peacelovepeacelove]] ([[User talk:Peacelovepeacelove|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Peacelovepeacelove|contribs]]) 04:01, 17 September 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
*Yes, but it means nothing. Having written a book does not mean you are notable by our standards. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 04:10, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

== FYI ==

... at [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Buddhakahika|SPI]]. There are going to be a lot of article deletions. - [[User:Sitush|Sitush]] ([[User talk:Sitush|talk]]) 05:27, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
*How so? I nominated one, [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Modern Hindu war cries]], but all but two are redirected or up at AfD. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:03, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
:*I'm the one who has been redirecting them. I have no evidence but my gut feeling is that this person has been socking for years using far more than the accounts so far identified. They really do not seem to care less when they are blocked, the latest example of which is [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ARockin_It_Loud&diff=572979827&oldid=572973268 this edit summary]. They are coatracking stuff and articles such as [[Jain Brahmins]] and [[Sikh Brahmins]] (now redirected) are just ludicrous: one cannot be a Jain or Sikh and be a Brahmin - they are different religious beliefs. What they are consistently doing is synthesising single-phrase comments in a wide range of sources, many of which seem not to be easily available and all of which are vague in style. Even although I have redirected some stuff, the evidence that they present & common sense suggests that the things should really be deleted. - [[User:Sitush|Sitush]] ([[User talk:Sitush|talk]]) 06:53, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

==DYK for Ellen Jens==
{{tmbox
|style = notice
|small = 
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#17 September 2013|17 September 2013]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Ellen Jens]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that [[Wim T. Schippers]]' TV shows, produced by former script girl '''[[Ellen Jens]]''', introduced characters played by '''[[Dolf Brouwers]]''', a former vacuum cleaner salesman, '''[[IJf Blokker]]''', a former drummer, and '''[[Clous van Mechelen]]''', a jazz musician?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Ellen Jens]]. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201309/Ellen_Jens quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 08:05, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

==DYK for Dolf Brouwers==
{{tmbox
|style = notice
|small = 
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#17 September 2013|17 September 2013]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Dolf Brouwers]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that [[Wim T. Schippers]]' TV shows, produced by former script girl '''[[Ellen Jens]]''', introduced characters played by '''[[Dolf Brouwers]]''', a former vacuum cleaner salesman, '''[[IJf Blokker]]''', a former drummer, and '''[[Clous van Mechelen]]''', a jazz musician?''  You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201309/Dolf_Brouwers quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 08:05, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

==DYK for IJf Blokker==
{{tmbox
|style = notice
|small = 
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#17 September 2013|17 September 2013]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[IJf Blokker]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that [[Wim T. Schippers]]' TV shows, produced by former script girl '''[[Ellen Jens]]''', introduced characters played by '''[[Dolf Brouwers]]''', a former vacuum cleaner salesman, '''[[IJf Blokker]]''', a former drummer, and '''[[Clous van Mechelen]]''', a jazz musician?''  You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201309/IJf_Blokker quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 08:05, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

==DYK for Clous van Mechelen==
{{tmbox
|style = notice
|small = 
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#17 September 2013|17 September 2013]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Clous van Mechelen]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that [[Wim T. Schippers]]' TV shows, produced by former script girl '''[[Ellen Jens]]''', introduced characters played by '''[[Dolf Brouwers]]''', a former vacuum cleaner salesman, '''[[IJf Blokker]]''', a former drummer, and '''[[Clous van Mechelen]]''', a jazz musician?''  You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201309/Clous_van_Mechelen quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 08:06, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

== Semi-protection of [[Anne Sullivan]] ==

Hi, Drmies. Did you really mean to protect it for only 12 hours? [[User:Rivertorch|Rivertorch]] ([[User talk:Rivertorch|talk]]) 10:23, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
*Yep, that seemed long enough for the burst of vandalism. I'll keep my eye on it. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:57, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
::Didn't work. I don't suppose there's any possibility of a rangeblock? [[User:Rivertorch|Rivertorch]] ([[User talk:Rivertorch|talk]]) 19:41, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
:::That one instance was there already earlier today, when I responded to you. For a rangeblock, go to ANI--I don't do them, and it seems to me to be too much of a range, but I don't know. It's some loser who, at some point, will give up. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 20:29, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
::::Hopefully so. I'm not suggesting a rangeblock—just curious as to the feasibility. Anyway, thanks for keeping an eye on it! [[User:Rivertorch|Rivertorch]] ([[User talk:Rivertorch|talk]]) 21:07, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

== Perry Belcher ==

You went the [[WP:IAR|IAR]] route and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=&page=Perry+Belcher&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&hide_patrol_log=1&hide_review_log=1 deleted] [[Perry Belcher]], but did not close the existing [[WP:Articles for deletion/Perry Belcher]].  The article was recreated (some 10 hours after you had deleted it), and re-nominated for deletion (by me).  There are now two open AFDs for this same article.  Suggestions on how to sort this out? [[User:WikiDan61|<span style="color:green;">WikiDan61</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:WikiDan61|ChatMe!]]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/WikiDan61|ReadMe!!]]</sub> 14:48, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
*Usually another editor closes the AfD. I'll have a look. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:11, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
*Look at the two AfDs and see what you think. I gave you a fully protected redirect. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:21, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

== Reverting archive additions ==

Hi Drmies, I was hoping you could explain why you mass reverted all the archive url additions, such as [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=NORAD_Tracks_Santa&diff=prev&oldid=573364834 this one]. At first/quick glance, they appear to be valid additions to replace dead links...is there something I'm missing? <span style="white-space:nowrap; text-shadow:gray 5px 3px 1px;">— [[User:Huntster|Huntster]] <small>([[User talk:Huntster|t]] [[Special:Emailuser/Huntster|@]] [[Special:Contributions/Huntster|c]])</small></span> 04:04, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
*{{tps}} Being discussed [[WP:AN/I#Mass rollbacks required|at AN/I]]; mass additions amount to spamming. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 05:37, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
**Thanks Yngva, was unaware. Shame that it had to be mass reverted, as the AF.mil issue affects a lot of pages. <span style="white-space:nowrap; text-shadow:gray 5px 3px 1px;">— [[User:Huntster|Huntster]] <small>([[User talk:Huntster|t]] [[Special:Emailuser/Huntster|@]] [[Special:Contributions/Huntster|c]])</small></span> 05:43, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
***Yes, that is a shame. But you can go through my history and revert what you think is valid; I don't mind at all. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:49, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

== Worst article in Wikipedia ==

Judith Fitzgerald wrote her own article, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Judith_Fitzgerald&oldid=573363291 Judith Fitzgerald].  My favourite lines:
:"...Mommie Meanest and Most-Heartlessly Cruel InHuman Speciwoman, Nettie Jalowica, encouraged him to take, break, and shake-down his wife..."
:"Fitzgerald, thanks to her ultra-projective and unconsciously baby-boy first-born protective monster-in-law's veto, has no children; rather, she adopted three dogs over her lifetime, the first named "Mc," the second named "Lu," and her current constant companion, "Han," the mutt magnif and super-terriffffff."
:"...invested her life savings hiring a "professional" painter who destroyed her home, Sheila Rustin, a painkiller addict who buys her Percocets from cross-dresser Jim Cripps (Google)"
[[User:Bgwhite|Bgwhite]] ([[User talk:Bgwhite|talk]]) 05:41, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
*Wow. Is this some fictional soap opera character? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:25, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
**You guys should also consider [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ambarish_Srivastava&oldid=345673509 Ambarish Srivastava]. I managed to do some clean up after it was restored through DRV, but I still say that it's one of those puff pieces. You should look at the references, they are amazing! &mdash;[[User:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#BA181F;">Spaceman</span>]]'''[[User_talk:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#2B18BA;">Spiff</span>]]''' 14:37, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
::* Much as I'll miss it when it goes, that miraculous content Bgwhite linked needs to be revdelled, no? Accusations against her ex-husband of physical abuse and calling some poor house painter "a painkiller addict who buys her Percocets from cross-dresser [name redacted]". <span style="font-family:'segoe ui','lucida grande';letter-spacing:2px;text-shadow:0 0 1px #999">&nbsp;[[User:Davidiad|davidiad]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Davidiad|{&nbsp;t&nbsp;}]]</span> 02:59, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
:::*Hmm, yeah, true dat. There was also a forced abortion/hysterectomy in there and the name of the forcer, etc. Thanks. Hey, [[Hoptasia]] needs your attention. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 03:14, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
::::* Thanks: it's a consistent fear of mine that one day I'll do a half-assed job painting a minor Canadian poet's fence and be called out on WP for my endearing taste for drink. We're hosting a visiting artist at the lady's school for the next few days, but if I don't do anything Greekish to your "h"optasia by Saturday evening, drop a note on my talk or email me. Queer twist of fate: the lady's school's Humanities department wants me to revive their Latin program after some decades if their proposed curriculum is approved. This classics shiz is like marrying into the mob. <span style="font-family:'segoe ui','lucida grande';letter-spacing:2px;text-shadow:0 0 1px #999">&nbsp;[[User:Davidiad|davidiad]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Davidiad|{&nbsp;t&nbsp;}]]</span> 03:54, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::*For lower pay, no doubt. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:06, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

== You're at ANI, but not by me ==

See [[WP:ANI#Massive revert errors]], and please don't shoot the messenger.  [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 13:21, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
*I saw it in my notifications already, Nyttend--thanks for the note. I have little to add to that thread; it doesn't happen often that I agree with Kww, but I do this time. If individual editors want to restore individual links, I presume they checked them for accuracy and redundancy and I'm perfectly fine with that. Again, thanks for your note. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:24, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

== "Notable patients" ==

I was looking at [[Cleveland Clinic]], which has a long list of "notable patients". This seemed weird to me. For comparison, I checked [[Mayo Clinic]] and [[John Hopkins Hospital]]; neither have such a list. Do y'all think it's appropriate/useful/informative? <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 14:20, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
*NO! Ha, not at all. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:21, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
**[[University of Pittsburgh Medical Center]] has a very short list in paragraph form, nothing like that on CC's page. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 14:27, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
**[[Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center]] also has a list, not as long as CC's. That's it for lists of that sort amongst hospitals listed in [[Medical centers in the United States]], except for a list of notable deaths (!) in one. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 14:32, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
***I note that [[George Washington University Hospital]] mentions [[Ronald Reagan]]'s being treated there after the shooting, but not the near-miracle [[Arthur Kobrine]] and his team pulled off with [[James Brady]]. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 18:03, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

==DYK for Going to the Dogs==
{{tmbox
|style = notice
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|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#19 September 2013|19 September 2013]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Going to the Dogs]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that Dutch artist [[Wim T. Schippers]] ''(pictured)'' wrote and directed '''''[[Going to the Dogs]]''''', a play for six German shepherds, '''''[[Ronflonflon]]''''', a radio show full of jingles, and TV shows for the [[VPRO]] including '''''[[De Fred Haché Show]]''''', '''''[[Barend is weer bezig]]''''', '''''[[Het is weer zo laat!]]''''', '''''[[De lachende scheerkwast]]''''', and '''''[[Opzoek naar Yolanda]]'''''?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Going to the Dogs]]. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201309/Going_to_the_Dogs quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 16:03, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

==DYK for Ronflonflon==
{{tmbox
|style = notice
|small = 
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#19 September 2013|19 September 2013]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Ronflonflon]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that Dutch artist [[Wim T. Schippers]] ''(pictured)'' wrote and directed '''''[[Going to the Dogs]]''''', a play for six German shepherds, '''''[[Ronflonflon]]''''', a radio show full of jingles, and TV shows for the [[VPRO]] including '''''[[De Fred Haché Show]]''''', '''''[[Barend is weer bezig]]''''', '''''[[Het is weer zo laat!]]''''', '''''[[De lachende scheerkwast]]''''', and '''''[[Opzoek naar Yolanda]]'''''?''  You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201309/Ronflonflon quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 16:04, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

==DYK for De Fred Haché Show==
{{tmbox
|style = notice
|small = 
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#19 September 2013|19 September 2013]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[De Fred Haché Show]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that Dutch artist [[Wim T. Schippers]] ''(pictured)'' wrote and directed '''''[[Going to the Dogs]]''''', a play for six German shepherds, '''''[[Ronflonflon]]''''', a radio show full of jingles, and TV shows for the [[VPRO]] including '''''[[De Fred Haché Show]]''''', '''''[[Barend is weer bezig]]''''', '''''[[Het is weer zo laat!]]''''', '''''[[De lachende scheerkwast]]''''', and '''''[[Opzoek naar Yolanda]]'''''?''  You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201309/De_Fred_Hach%C3%A9_Show quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 16:04, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

==DYK for Barend is weer bezig==
{{tmbox
|style = notice
|small = 
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#19 September 2013|19 September 2013]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Barend is weer bezig]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that Dutch artist [[Wim T. Schippers]] ''(pictured)'' wrote and directed '''''[[Going to the Dogs]]''''', a play for six German shepherds, '''''[[Ronflonflon]]''''', a radio show full of jingles, and TV shows for the [[VPRO]] including '''''[[De Fred Haché Show]]''''', '''''[[Barend is weer bezig]]''''', '''''[[Het is weer zo laat!]]''''', '''''[[De lachende scheerkwast]]''''', and '''''[[Opzoek naar Yolanda]]'''''?''  You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201309/Barend_is_weer_bezig quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 16:05, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

==DYK for Het is weer zo laat!==
{{tmbox
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|small = 
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#19 September 2013|19 September 2013]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Het is weer zo laat!]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that Dutch artist [[Wim T. Schippers]] ''(pictured)'' wrote and directed '''''[[Going to the Dogs]]''''', a play for six German shepherds, '''''[[Ronflonflon]]''''', a radio show full of jingles, and TV shows for the [[VPRO]] including '''''[[De Fred Haché Show]]''''', '''''[[Barend is weer bezig]]''''', '''''[[Het is weer zo laat!]]''''', '''''[[De lachende scheerkwast]]''''', and '''''[[Opzoek naar Yolanda]]'''''?''  You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201309/Het_is_weer_zo_laat! quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 16:05, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

==DYK for De lachende scheerkwast==
{{tmbox
|style = notice
|small = 
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#19 September 2013|19 September 2013]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[De lachende scheerkwast]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that Dutch artist [[Wim T. Schippers]] ''(pictured)'' wrote and directed '''''[[Going to the Dogs]]''''', a play for six German shepherds, '''''[[Ronflonflon]]''''', a radio show full of jingles, and TV shows for the [[VPRO]] including '''''[[De Fred Haché Show]]''''', '''''[[Barend is weer bezig]]''''', '''''[[Het is weer zo laat!]]''''', '''''[[De lachende scheerkwast]]''''', and '''''[[Opzoek naar Yolanda]]'''''?''  You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201309/De_lachende_scheerkwast quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 16:05, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

==DYK for Opzoek naar Yolanda==
{{tmbox
|style = notice
|small = 
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#19 September 2013|19 September 2013]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Opzoek naar Yolanda]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that Dutch artist [[Wim T. Schippers]] ''(pictured)'' wrote and directed '''''[[Going to the Dogs]]''''', a play for six German shepherds, '''''[[Ronflonflon]]''''', a radio show full of jingles, and TV shows for the [[VPRO]] including '''''[[De Fred Haché Show]]''''', '''''[[Barend is weer bezig]]''''', '''''[[Het is weer zo laat!]]''''', '''''[[De lachende scheerkwast]]''''', and '''''[[Opzoek naar Yolanda]]'''''?''  You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201309/Opzoek_naar_Yolanda quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 16:06, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
*I [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Did_you_know/Hall_of_Fame&diff=next&oldid=568210493 added this seven-article hook] to the DYK Hall of Fame. [[User:Mandarax|<span style="color:green">M<small>AN</small>d<small>ARAX</small></span>]]&nbsp;<span style="color:blue">•</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandarax|<span style="color:#999900"><small>XAЯA</small>b<small>ИA</small>M</span>]] 11:49, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
*[[User:Hebel]] moved this one to ''[[Op zoek naar Yolanda]]''; I note that about half the sources spell it that way, but noting in case there's a reason to prefer the one-word spelling. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 15:11, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
:Basically "Opzoek" is not one word in Dutch. It's two words. There was a space missing. [[User:Hebel|Gerard von Hebel]] ([[User talk:Hebel|talk]]) 16:43, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
::Thanks Yngvadottir. Hebel, that was not a very nice or smart thing to do. First of all, I am Dutch and I think I know what I'm talking about. So, second, you should have started a move discussion on the talk page and notified me of it. I'm biting my tongue because I'm really taken aback by this hasty and incorrect action, and I don't know if it's the hastiness or the fact that you didn't look to see who had written the article and what that person might or might not know: je hebt duidelijk niet verder gekeken dan je neus lang was. And you embarrassed me by bringing it up on [[Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors]], where at the very least {{U|Bencherlite}} saw it, who now might be thinking that I cain't write my own language.<p>Third, the title. Yes, sources have both with and without the space, but the ones that count, like the VPRO website, have it without, and Hebel might be interested in hustling up a copy of ''Verdomd Interessant, Maar Gaat U Verder'', a book published by the SdU, {{ISBN|90 5797 077 5}}, written with the cooperation of [[Ellen Jens]] and Schippers himself, and check pages 15, 20, 34, 35, 40, 44, 61. Which brings me to my final point. ''Of course'' normally it should say "op zoek". ''But this is the world of Wim T. Schippers'': it's a joke. I don't get it, I think, but it's a joke, and it's how he wrote it. And that he wrote it this way, as part of an ongoing joke in the show, is evidenced in ''Verdomd Interessant'' by a list of words Schippers has "glued together: "'Netzogoed', 'eerlijkgezegd', 'heietijd', 'zegmaar', 'netzomin', 'opzichzelf of 'opzak': Wim T. Schippers plakt graag woorden aan elkaar als deze in de spreektaal al bijna op die manier worden gebezigd. Het bekendste voorbeeld is 'opzoek' in de titel Opzoek naar Yolanda". That should suffice. Reeds. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:01, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

== While waiting for my sex books to arrive, an AN/I 2.0 question ... ==

I came across [[Joe Vargas (Angry Joe)]] on recent changes patrol. It's being hammered by IPv6 editors whose numbers and letters are so close I have trouble telling them apart, so maybe it's just one person and a range block is in order ... at least one IP has tried to mitigate the damage. However, I don't think he's notable. (And significant portions of it are unsourced. I made a quick search and found nothing usable and nothing at all for one point I wondered about.) Working off the [[Channel Awesome]] template at the bottom, I reckon about half the articles aren't: ''[[Ashens and the Quest for the Gamechild]]'', [[The Angry Video Game Nerd]], and the lists of ''[[Nostalgia Critic]]'' episodes don't pass my smell test. [[Stuart Ashen]] was deleted at AfD and is now a protected redirect. But ... that was 2009, since when a lot may have happened. Some of the articles show undeniable mainstream media coverage. So I don't want to rain too hard on these guys' parade. I'm inclined to AfD more than one of these as a better longterm solution for the encyclopedia (there are obvious merge targets for anything that isn't already covered elsewhere in the group), but disciplining the IP(s) might be less mean and nasty? [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 18:50, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
:Stalking and {{done}} on the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/block&page=User%3A2602%3A30A%3A2E3E%3AC580%3A0%3A0%3A0%3A0%2F64 rangeblock]. [[User:Martijn Hoekstra|Martijn Hoekstra]] ([[User talk:Martijn Hoekstra|talk]]) 19:20, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
::Well done Martijn, thank you. I was just looking at [[That Guy with the Glasses]]: the entire list of "events" is gone for lack of sourcing and fluffability. A bit of summarizing info is fine, in the way that plot summary is fine if unsourced, but the balance is just completely off and it's totally into fluff/fancruft/PR territory. It's like those radio shows with their skits and funny characters. I mean, how many "is also a show with satirical movie reviews" do we need? There's plenty cleanup around here, and I'd say go ahead and nominate what you run into. It may bring all the fans and the IPs out, but this is not good for the wiki. Maybe for the wikia, but not for the wiki. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 19:33, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
:::This was not the type of discussion I was expecting... [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]] [[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 20:19, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
::::You can file a complaint for false advertising, Ed. After all, Yngvadottir is an admin and should, besides keeping a mowed lawn, be ethical in their edits. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 20:26, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
::::Speaking of sex books: [[Nicholson Baker]] was on Colbert's show last night. Anyone read ''[[House of Holes]]''? Read it; you'll thank me for the tip. And clearly we need to fill ''that'' hole in our coverage. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 20:28, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::Well, this is ANI 2.0, so consider a complaint filed with you, Drmies. I expect swift action. [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]] [[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 20:45, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::Blame the library or the US Post Office. [[Autocunnilingus]] isn't going to reference itself, but instead I had to actually spend an hour translating Old Norse. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 20:53, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::*Shame no decent online sources which pass RS (haven't found any)&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 15:11, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::*I believe Goethe put it over the top: [[Autocunnilingus|have a look]]. But they are talking about re-merging it to [[cunnilingus]]. This makes me sad. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 17:40, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::::*Saw the article; very good work. Again, shame I didn't find any online sources. Where's the merger discussion&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 22:59, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::*Glad you like it, thanks :-) So far just in edit summaries on the talk page. I agree entirely with start class, but I hope it doesn't get merged. By the way the only offline thing I wound up using was the ''Dictionary of Sexology'', which is indeed just dicdefs. Found Goethe online via ''Die Welt''. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 03:14, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

== Some doubt ==

Is this [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=D%C3%A1l_gCais&diff=573201368&oldid=562049463 edit] allowed within the topic ban for Laurel Lodged published here: [[Wikipedia:Editing_restrictions#Placed_by_the_Wikipedia_community]]? <span style="border:1px solid green; padding:0 2px">[[User:The Banner|<span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The&nbsp;Banner</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:The Banner|<i style="color:maroon">talk</i>]]</span> 00:16, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
*Well, I think it certainly falls foul of the spirit of the ban, considering that categorization has something to do with the historical significance of counties, and it could be argued that it violates the letter as well. But I'm not familiar with the editor, the ban, or the subject matter; I think you should post this at [[WP:AN]] and I wouldn't be surprised if you find a resounding "yes". [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:20, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
**I have put it down on [[WP:AN]] to get more opinions. Laurel Lodged is another hardhead with a history I have the tradition to stumble upon. <span style="border:1px solid green; padding:0 2px">[[User:The Banner|<span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The&nbsp;Banner</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:The Banner|<i style="color:maroon">talk</i>]]</span> 09:25, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

== Suikerbrood ==

Hello Drmies,

I have an old friend named Simone that I've known about 18 years who is from the Netherlands.  A couple of weeks ago I asked her if she ever made Suikerbrood and if she had a recipe.  She seemed a bit surprised and asked me why I was asking her about this.  I explained that I'd helped with some research for the article about Suikerbrood on Wikipedia.  Within a few days she emailed me a recipe, translated from the Dutch for Suikerbrood.  I will plan to order the nib sugar from Amazon in a couple of weeks, then take photos of the process showing how the treat is made.  Mr. Cullen, our younger son and I are leaving in a week for vacation in Hawaii.  The recipe Simone sent me is quite different from some that I found on the Internet when I was doing the research.  Wish me luck in the final result.  I hope all is well with you.  Sending you my best.  Mrs. Cullen, aka:  [[User:ChesPal|ChesPal]] ([[User talk:ChesPal|talk]]) 01:12, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
*Ha! That was fun, writing [[Suikerbrood]]--I see that our old pal {{U|Jenks24}} has been inactive for a while. Anyway, I still have some of the nib sugar; I think I ordered two boxes and have one left. I was thinking about making it again a few weeks ago and I will. I'm curious as to how it turns out for you. It can't be bad: the pleasure is in those chunks of sugar, of course. Let me know how it goes, and how that recipe worked for you. I can't remember which one I used, but it's not the one in the article (reference 1) since I didn't use (or even consider) ginger. Have a great vacation, and please give my regards to all the Cullens. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:15, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

== WHAT ABOUT THOSE NUDE ==
[[File:Godegårds bruk stuga vid landsvägen 2005-07-08.jpg|thumb| A [[Sweden|Swedish]] cottage. Was there at weekend, but you were nowhere.]]
[[File:Cod and stoemp.jpg|thumb|Do you miss ''stoemp'' ?]]
* Dr Mies, what about those nude Elephants? You are the brainy guy.  I don't get it, they say att [[:commons::FOP#Netherlands]], if grafitti and sculptures in public places are OK, what is wrong than with those animals? I wonder why the Dutch law  HERE, all the stuff in Dutch http://www.ivir.nl/wetten/nl/auteurswet_01_04_2006.html should forbide to take pictures of elephants in public places with lots of grafitti on. Wish a Dutch would look into this closer. Pray. And who is Com now? [[User:Hafspajen|Ex Warrington Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 11:46, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
*You overestimate my smarts, dear Warrington. The deletion discussion is no longer there, but at any rate I don't know why article 18 would NOT allow your elephants unless it's the fact that those pictures didn't include the surroundings, the context of the public settings. I remember there was something in that discussion about temporariness but I don't recall exactly. Who was it who nominated them? Have you asked them? If I knew how to read and apply law I'd be in a different business, one that pays a lot more. Have you found me a job yet? Uppsala isn't too far, you know. We could each go up/down the [[Göta Canal]] (like in ''[[Roseanna (novel)|Roseanna]]'' and meet in Motala. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:56, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
*The deletion discussion is  here. Dutch law about artworks, apparently: [[:commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Elephant Parade, Emmen (2010)]] I am affraid that you would not like the [[wages]]. I  think people in USA are better payed, but if you really are serious, ...  But meet in MOtala,... you are crazy. Nobody ever goes there...[[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 14:01, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
**Ah yes. Well, it's the issue of the surroundings, then. I don't know about "permanent"; that's a matter of some possible disagreement. Ask the deleting administrator on Commons; perhaps they have a deletion review process as well, but it seems that the surroundings bit is hard to overcome. Sorry. And I'm kidding about Motala. But not about Lund, Uppsala, Stockholm, Goteborg, or even Ystad (OK, not Ystad). [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:18, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
* Oh, the creator herself was stupid enough to ask deletions about her own works, crazy. What can one do? Are you not happy where you are? Or? Saw Brachy about the pope. :) [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 14:39, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
**Well, I miss Europe very much. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:38, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
::*I see. What do you miss? [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 17:06, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
:::*Oh, don't get me started. I'll tell you one thing: the ability to drive an hour or two and be someplace different. Hearing different languages. Different foods. Different homes and styles. Little things, like how you Swedes do hardware for your windows (can't explain; the concept is expanded on in ''[[The Locked Room|Det slutna rummet]]''). All those things where one can find difference close at hand. Did you know that the Germans have very different opening hours for their shops? That sort of thing. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:58, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
..*Driving to France was a damn long drive... But I understand what you mean. Are you into Sjöwall and Wahlöö nowadays?[[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 21:36, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

== Way...way..way..back ==

Hi Drmies,

I have some very vague recollection of that post, but I believe I meant it in a good way. I was fairly impressed with your first edits and was genuinely wondering if you had much experience beforehand. I, myself, edited from two accounts (consecutively, not simultaneously, of course) before settling on this one.

Six/seven years on, and you're one of the most active around here. I'm feeling a bit unaccomplished next to you!

What reminded you of that post -now of all times, too?

Cheers, 
[[User:Aua|<span style="font-size:small; color:blue;">&Lambda;</span><span style="color:red;">u</span><span style="color:gray;">α</span>]] <sup><small>([[User talk:Aua|Operibus anteire]])</small></sup> 18:27, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
*Don't know--I was browsing around last night through my talk page; I can't remember what prompted it. I suppose I was interested in what got me going here and discovered/remembered that my first dealings were quite confrontational, over [[Arundhati Roy]], so I got POV editing, edit warring, fighting over sources, and a prolific sock master right off the bat. Another early poster was Arthur Rubin, who is an institution of course. BTW, I'm sure you meant it in a good way, haha. I'm glad to see you're still around, and you don't even sound jaded. Thanks for your note, and have a nice weekend, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 18:39, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

== Minor barnstar ==

Why thank you kindly *blush*  It's most appreciated.  Always happy to be of help.

Keep up the good work, and happy editing! :-) --[[User:Ser Amantio di Nicolao|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;">Ser Amantio di Nicolao</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Ser Amantio di Nicolao|''Che dicono a Signa?'']]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ser Amantio di Nicolao|'''Lo dicono a Signa.''']]</sub> 19:39, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
:I see, incidentally, that your interests include the Kronos Quartet.  They're in residence [[University of Maryland - College Park|just up the road from me]]; I really ought to get up there and check out some of their work soon. --[[User:Ser Amantio di Nicolao|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;">Ser Amantio di Nicolao</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Ser Amantio di Nicolao|''Che dicono a Signa?'']]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ser Amantio di Nicolao|'''Lo dicono a Signa.''']]</sub> 19:45, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
::Oh wow--are you kidding? I see their fancy concerts announced on Facebook, but never within a few hundred miles of where I live. If you like classical/world/hip music, yeah, you should go if you can. I can't say I'm a fan of everything they've done, but I'm also not educated with classical music. But ''[[Floodplain (album)|Floodplain]]'' is quite accessible for a peasant like me. Also, back to work Ser: I just wrote a stubby stub, [[Middle English Metrical Paraphrase of the Old Testament]], and it needs apparatus. Thanks for the note, and thanks again for all your hard work here. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 19:58, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
:::I have a few of their recordings, but have never heard them live.  College Park is a bit of a trek for me...but I should probably make it next year for them.

:::Categories added. :-) --[[User:Ser Amantio di Nicolao|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;">Ser Amantio di Nicolao</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Ser Amantio di Nicolao|''Che dicono a Signa?'']]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ser Amantio di Nicolao|'''Lo dicono a Signa.''']]</sub> 20:19, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
::::Part of this is wrong: "early fifteenth century, c. 1500-1510." So, is it early 1500's (16th century), or is it early 15th century?
:::::Typo corrected. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 03:02, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::That was fast. I was about to make that change, going on the assumption that the manuscripts section was correct, but when I hit "edit" you'd already fixed it. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 03:07, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Well, everyone's gone to bed and Boise State isn't ranked anymore, so that game isn't very exciting. :) Did you see the table of contents? It contains Judith, and that's hip. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 03:12, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::No, I haven't seen the contents. I'll have to look for that. Apparently UGA is paying North Texas almost a million bucks to come (probably) get trampled. I don't understand the [[economics of college football]]. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 03:19, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::::Apparently we're playing Colorado State tomorrow because their coach is our former quarterback coach, or something like that. The economics you're referring to dictate, it seems, that the game isn't even on TV tomorrow. Bleh. And it's raining! But I got a front door to sand and finish anyway. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 03:22, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

==DYK for Blue Wing Inn==
{{tmbox
|type = notice
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#21 September 2013|21 September 2013]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Blue Wing Inn]]''''', which you recently nominated. The fact was ''... that the '''[[Blue Wing Inn]]''', started as a one-room hotel in Sonoma, California, in 1836, was also a saloon, a gambling hall, a stagecoach depot, a grocery store, a winery, a museum, and a retail center?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[]].|{{#ifexist:Template:Did you know nominations/Blue Wing Inn|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Blue Wing Inn]].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/Blue Wing Inn|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template talk:Did you know/Blue Wing Inn]].}} }} }} You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201309/Blue_Wing_Inn quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYKNom -->  [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 00:03, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

== RV'd your edit to User Talk:Wmwood85 ==

Hi! I noticed you apparently are placing a block on [[USER:Wmwood85]], but in doing so you blanked the talk page, removing the various warnings, etc. Just wanted to let you know why I reverted your edit, I presume it was a mistake when attempting to place the block-notice template? [[User:Besieged|<span style="color:#A4A4A4;">be</span><span style="color:#000000;">'''siege'''</span><span style="color:#585858;">d</span>]]<sup><small>[[User_Talk:Besieged|<span style="color:#585858;">talk</span>]]</small></sup> 01:18, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
*Yes, it's an indefinite block, and no, that wasn't an accident. But it's not a big deal, though I'm not sure why you felt the need to revert me. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:22, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
== Food for thought ==
[[File:Fatir.jpg|thumb|right|This is [[fatir]] (a.k.a. [[feteer]] and [[fiteer]]), served by fast food joints in Egypt known as [[fatatri]].  As you can see, we don't have an article on it, any mention that it comes in both sweet (as pictured) and savoury forms, or even a decent article on the other [[fatir]].  This work will not attract English Professors into the English Professor Vacuum, though.  Concentrate upon improving [[internal monologue]] and keep your mind off food.  Especially thoughts of pizza with egg in it.]]
I was going to ask you [[Wikipedia:Did You Know|whether you knew]] about the shortage of [[kushari]] in Egypt in 1986.  But instead, bearing in mind the English Professor Vacuum here at Articles for Creation, I shall point out that our article on [[internal monologue]] isn't pointed to by [[interior monologue]] and doesn't mention [[James Joyce]] or [[Virginia Woolf]] at all, or explain the important difference between that and [[stream of consciousness]], or distinguish between ''direct'' and ''indirect'' interior monologue.
* {{cite encyclopaedia|ref=harv|author1-first=Peter|author1-last=Childs|encyclopaedia=Encyclopedia of Literary Modernism|editor1-first=Paul|editor1-last=Poplawski|publisher=ABC-CLIO|year=2003|isbn=9780313016578|article=Interior Monologue}}
* {{cite book|ref=harv|chapter=The Techniques|title=Stream of Consciousness in the Modern Novel|volume=3|series=Perspectives in criticism||author1-first=Robert|author1-last=Humphrey|publisher=U of California P|year=1954|isbn=9780520005853}}
* {{cite book|ref=harv|chapter=Interior Monologue: Direct and indirect|title=Mind Reading: Unframed Interior Monologue in European Fiction|volume=19|series=Internationale Forschungen zur allgemeinen und vergleichenden Literaturwissenschaft|issn=0929-6999|author1-first=Vladimir|author1-last=Tumanov|publisher=Rodopi|year=1997|isbn=9789042001473}}
[[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 11:05, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
**That kushari shortage is well-known, of course, and I remember having to decide ''not'' to do anything about it, since I had just entered a degree program in August and was getting ready to move to the [[Tol Hansse|big city]]. The monologuing bit, that's difficult, and while researching ''[[Les Lauriers sont coupés]]'' for a former Wikipedian (!) I discovered just how difficult it is--and decided I was insufficiently interested in the matter to untangle all those threads and weigh all the claims. The terminology isn't simple to begin with, but [[Les_Lauriers_sont_coupés#Theory_and_influence|you know that very well, of course]]. So I'd say have fun with it.<p>Also, thanks for stopping by. I'm sorry that your cat had to get a flu shot last week, but we can reschedule lunch. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:07, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

== Hoptasia ==

Hey, Drmies, I'm not sure what Hellenist services you were looking for in this, but I'm sitting down to do some of my own work and have poked around a bit. All I really have is some OR. The Greek is ''optasia'' ({{lang|grc|ὀπτασία}}), not ''hoptasia'' ({{lang|grc|ὁπτασία}}). Perhaps in some Biblical-crit past someone decided there should be a rough breathing (analogy with seeing words in ''hor''-, like the synonymous ''horasis''? ), but the word in Greek is printed with the smooth breathing in its 1153 instances in modern editions of texts up to the Ottoman victory. It's the most religious Greek word I've run into. It first occurs in Esther and from then until the seventh century (when I stopped reading each instance) only occurs outside of a Judaeo-Christian context in the Alexander Romance and in Hesychius' lexicon. Generally when I see a word that's primarily Christian in its history, it first appears in the Septuagint, but a nearly contemporary set of occurrences in Hellenistic period pagan texts appears, too, showing that it was probably a fourth-century coinage or an older vulgarism now elevated. These are just observations: if there's anything more profitable you think I could offer, let me gnow. <span style="font-family:'segoe ui','lucida grande';letter-spacing:2px;text-shadow:0 0 1px #999">&nbsp;[[User:Davidiad|davidiad]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Davidiad|{&nbsp;t&nbsp;}]]</span> 18:10, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
*Haha, I thought it was a tad strange already to find so few hits in GBooks. Well, you saw the sources that I dug up: "hoptasia" with H is well-established in those usages--which really doesn't mean anything. So I don't rightly know what to do: it's incorrect usage that's well established? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 20:05, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
:* Yeah, it happens a lot in these kinds of topics, but it might be worthwhile depending upon the scope you want to include "or '''optasia'''" and poke around for scholarship using that form. For either form BrillOnline, the Cambridge Histories and Companions give barely anything (one incidental usage of ''optasia'' in Brill). JSTOR gives three more ''optasia'' hits in addition to the Heckman article you have for ''hoptasia''.  Google Books has scattered RS returns for ''optasia'', but a lot of nonsense, too. Sorry not to have a lot to offer. <span style="font-family:'segoe ui','lucida grande';letter-spacing:2px;text-shadow:0 0 1px #999">&nbsp;[[User:Davidiad|davidiad]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Davidiad|{&nbsp;t&nbsp;}]]</span> 20:53, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
::*Well, I got something for you: a [[Leffe]], some fried chicken, cauliflower-apple something, and Auburn getting a whooping! But now that I know that "optasia" really means something, I'm wondering if I can't just keep the article with the note that it's an alternate spelling of a valid Greek word. I wish {{U|Uncle G}} would help out with that in article space, not in sub-sub space. He'd know what to do. Did I tell you about that time in the Amazon when he fabricated an outboard engine out of pecan nuts and freshwater dolphins? And did Arkansas go 4-0 today? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:19, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
:::* Or you can just leave it as is since what you say, that it's derived from the Greek, is true. I'd love some beer and fried chicken. I've been working on column lengths in papyri for twelve hours, and that much counting lines of poetry without reading it angries up the blood. Arkansas fell to 3-1, blowing a 10-point fourth-quarter lead to Rutgers, where I got my BA. I'm about to take a break, throw on a Rutgers t-shirt and head over to Walmart to see if any methed out local Razorback fans wanna dance. <span style="font-family:'segoe ui','lucida grande';letter-spacing:2px;text-shadow:0 0 1px #999">&nbsp;[[User:Davidiad|davidiad]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Davidiad|{&nbsp;t&nbsp;}]]</span>
::::*Alright, if you haven't texted me back by midnight I'm telling your wife to call 911, you daredevil. In the meantime my employer is getting their ass handed to them on a platter by LSU. That really tears me up inside. The Alabama game is on PPV, unfortunately, and my bar-going days are long gone. Be safe, Yankee boy, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:55, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::* No takers. One young woman in a Razorbacks t-shirt did yell "I hate you Rutgers" from across the meat section, but other than that it was just a lot of angry looks. Colorado State? That couldn't have been too exciting. Better to watch the employer get smacked. <span style="font-family:'segoe ui','lucida grande';letter-spacing:2px;text-shadow:0 0 1px #999">&nbsp;[[User:Davidiad|davidiad]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Davidiad|{&nbsp;t&nbsp;}]]</span> 03:03, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

== Help ==

Can't get rid of [[Tavče Gravče]]‎. It was on my watchlist and still is, can't remove it. Whatever I do, really. Does it has to stay there forewer? What is wrong?  Any page stalkers are very welcome to help....  [[User:Hafspajen| Warrington indeed]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 22:06, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
:Hmm, maybe you should try this:
:*[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:EditWatchlist/raw Check] your raw watchlist if it still contains the page.
:*Purge your browser cache and reload your watchlist.
:[[User:De728631|De728631]] ([[User talk:De728631|talk]]) 22:39, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
::Another option would be getting used to it. A glass of slivovitz or two should go well with this type of food. [[User:De728631|De728631]] ([[User talk:De728631|talk]]) 22:43, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
:::Hmmm. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 23:14, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
::* Might have to get use to it... {{smiley}} ?[[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 23:18, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
*WHAt on EARTH ARE THIS FILES DOING ON MY Watchlist *Drmies Supports Bernie Fine's Pedophilia' and 'Drmies makes sculptures out of blood and feces that feature people doing unspeakably depraved acts' and Jamie's Mum and H Ậ 66ER? What is this??. Secret vandalism??Tavče Gravče is gone but there was a kind of crap where was THAT coming from? Also bad words about DRmies? Can anyone go ahead and start adding crap on  my watchlist ? [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 23:43, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
*Hmm, where/how did you see that? The Bernie Fine stuff was deleted two years ago, and I barely remember what that was. I have a vague recollection of the feces. You know, you can't please all people all the time. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:14, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
::Saw that on my '''Watchlist'''. It was not ME who put that there, at least not that I remember it... ''Drmies makes sculptures out of blood and feces that feature people doing unspeakably depraved acts'', was that an article?????????????? I thought that somebody could vandalize my watclist, adding stupid things to it, like articles called ''H Ậ 66ER '' and ''Jamie's mom'', and by the way, who is she? Is that possible? [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 11:46, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
[[Is It Really Better Than Sex? Cake]], stupid name
:::I think that's a result of pagemove vandalism, Hafspajen. If you're watching a page, such as [[User:Drmies]], and someone moves it, then even when it gets moved back to the good name, the temporary name stays on your watchlist. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 15:51, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
* Right. VERy clever of you. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 15:54, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

== Boobies! ==

There have been sightings of Blue-footed Boobies along the California coast, at least as far north as Ventura! Naturally, this made me think of you. Of course, these are actually gray-footed Blue-footed Boobies; younger birds have grayish-bluish feet rather than the brilliant blues of the adults.

I was very surprised, because I thought they were only found in and around the Galápagos Islands. Although they're very rarely seen around here, it's not unheard-of; the last reported spottings were about four years ago. [[User:Mandarax|<span style="color:green">M<small>AN</small>d<small>ARAX</small></span>]]&nbsp;<span style="color:blue">•</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandarax|<span style="color:#999900"><small>XAЯA</small>b<small>ИA</small>M</span>]] 01:27, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
*Someone here (you?) mentioned the California angle not too long ago--that's very exciting. I'm glad you're such a bird lover. We are too: especially of the fried variety. And I'm sitting here with Sippy, who is impressing me with her English skills. Oh, she wants to be a medical scientist and study at MIT, and what she suggested is that if she is a medical scientist she can make men have babies. Now isn't that great? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:52, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
:*'Twasn't me. You get too much traffic for me to keep up with it all, so I missed any earlier mention. I was so happy to see that you're a bird lover, until you had to go and spoil it. I'd like to be the first to congratulate Sippy on her future Nobel Prize.<p>Oh, regarding the above thread, I went to check if that page about your depraved blood sculptures was still on my watchlist; it wasn't, but it made me think... you should try [[Troll cat|invoking Satan and see if they come to life]]. [[User:Mandarax|<span style="color:green">M<small>AN</small>d<small>ARAX</small></span>]]&nbsp;<span style="color:blue">•</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandarax|<span style="color:#999900"><small>XAЯA</small>b<small>ИA</small>M</span>]] 03:06, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
::*Mandarax: eeeewwww. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 16:02, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
::*Drmies, has Sippy seen that movie with Ah-nold and Danny Devito? <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 16:02, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
:::*Noooooooo, that's off-limits here (and I've not seen it, so I missed the joke). We watched the ''Prisoner of Azkaban'' today. It had dementors and werewolves! [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:07, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

==DYK for The Sand-Covered Church==
{{tmbox
|style = notice
|small = 
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#22 September 2013|22 September 2013]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[The Sand-Covered Church]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that '''[[The Sand-Covered Church]]''' ''(pictured)'' is a 14th-century Danish church partly demolished in the 1800s when the sand from the nearby dunes threatened it, leaving only the church tower still visible?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/The Sand-Covered Church]]. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201309/The_Sand-Covered_Church quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[WP:Did you know|The DYK project]] ([[T:TDYK|nominate]]) 08:02, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
*I find it amusing that you are apparently fine with the use of "Holland" (I gave up tracking down the edit to see if it were you or Hafspajen who added it), and someone else felt the need to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Sand-Covered_Church&diff=next&oldid=574040224 "correct" it] to "the Netherlands". <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 15:43, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
::*:LadyofShalott, the [[detective]], curiosity is  good  a thing  [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 15:59, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
::*Some singing for Mies [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hBVzzHq7wE YouTube] [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 20:30, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
:::*Hmm, that didn't really come across well through my little netbook speakers, but thanks. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 22:50, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
:*{{U|Steinbach}}, there was a good reason to use the word "Holland"--had you looked more carefully, you would have seen that [http://www.kirkehistorie.dk/hjor/sogn1198.htm the source] uses the word, and that those bricks were obtained long before any kingdom or republic of the Netherlands. In other words, eerst alsjeblieft even goed kijken voordat je denkt dat iets verbetered moet worden. Reeds. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 21:05, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
::*For a similar "correction", see the section "DYK for Opzoek naar Yolanda" above; that user, {{U|Hebel}}, never responded, and I'm really waiting for an apology from them. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 21:11, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
:::*Ah, yes, now I see that, and I can see you are more than a little ticked off about it. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 21:51, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
:::* :) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 22:34, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
::::*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Vanderpoel&diff=465467856&oldid=464837848 Here's] a place where Drmies correctly corrected "Holland" to "Netherlands". Note that he actually explained in the edit summary why he was doing it; ah, if only ''everybody'' would do that. (The "Holland" was originally there because that's what the source said.) BTW, I had [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Recent_additions&diff=573813674&oldid=573794397 corrected] "Opzoek" in the DYK Archive, so that the erroneous version wouldn't be preserved there. [[User:Mandarax|<span style="color:green">M<small>AN</small>d<small>ARAX</small></span>]]&nbsp;<span style="color:blue">•</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandarax|<span style="color:#999900"><small>XAЯA</small>b<small>ИA</small>M</span>]] 23:45, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::*TY Mandarax. Obviously it's used incorrectly all the time, and no doubt our corrector thought it was, but context is everything. I'm reviewing a biography on Dutch by OUP, and it has to spend pages and pages explaining the terminology of what the language is called when, where, and by who. And sometimes you don't exactly know what is meant, but such occasions arise only rarely in the English-language Wikipedia. As for "opzoek", well, it's Wim T. Schippers, so you should know ''anything'' can be a joke, that's what he's known for. And if you look at the references, the spelling is an indicator of reliability--[http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/4324/Nieuws/archief/article/detail/1639039/2008/06/18/Waar-hangt-Wim-T-Schippers-toch-uit.dhtml this] is from ''[[Trouw]]'', usually very reliable. [http://www.geschiedenis24.nl/nieuws/2008/maart/Deel-3-en-4-van-Wim-T-Schippers-dvd-box-te-koop.html This] is written by someone who's holding the DVD box. I'm disappointed one of the [[Geschiedenis 24]] articles misspells it. But again, before you start moving a title, consider that it's the ''title'', and that someone probably thought about it! Anyway. I'm sitting here surrounded by beautiful young women who I can appease with candy, and I'm putting my feet up. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:03, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
::*Wees dan zo consequent om ook alle Duitse staten waarvan die stenen kwamen te noemen, en die niet samen te vatten onder 'Germany'. Natuurlijk hoorde dat officieel bij het HRR, maar dat gold voor Holland ook. [[User:Steinbach|Steinbach]] ([[User talk:Steinbach|talk]]) 13:35, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:::*Je hebt dus niet naar de bron gekeken. Dat is redelijk belangrijk--encyclopedie enzo. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:44, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
::::*Bronvermelding kan bestaan uit verwijzingen naar relevante betrouwbare bronnen of een bibliografie, literatuurlijst of een ander overzicht van geraadpleegde bronnen. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 17:21, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::*Google Translate gives some rather odd results to those of us interested in this conversation but without fluency in Dutch. <small>"Then be so consistent to include all German states where the stones came to call, and can not be summarized under 'Germany' together. Of course heard officially from the HRR, but that was true for Holland too."</small> <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 17:44, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Soooo, should articles use Holland when that is given in the source? Or should it be corrected to The Netherlands? I came across this a few months ago in [[James Ferguson (major-general)]] as an editor was diligently changing all refs to Holland in various articles. {{noping|Fnorp}} seemed to be getting a lot of grief about it and I tried to compromise by including a note in that article but it does seem to be something that needs clarification as it must surely come up in lots of historical articles? [[User:Sagaciousphil|<span style="color: Navy"><span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva; font-size: 12pt">SagaciousPhil</span></span>]] - [[User Talk:Sagaciousphil|<span style="font-family: Century Gothic; font-size:10pt">'''Chat'''</span>]] 20:55, 24 September 2013 (UTC) <small> Typically British, I can't understand if you use foreign languages either. </small> {{smiley|frown}}
{{od}}Depends, I suppose. In this case, "Holland" was proper given the time period (I wouldn't put ''that'' much stock on the particular source). If your major-general was active during, say, the time of the Dutch Republic, then "Dutch Republic" is the proper term, I think, unless one is saying something specific about the region "Holland"--that is, "[[County of Holland]]", as opposed to other parts of the Republic. It's complicated. Our article [[Holland]] has a few things to say on the topic of usage (and note the usage "with the intention of contrasting", as before), but yeah, I would look at historical and geographical context, with the additional caveat that English speakers often get it wrong (no blame laid or disrespect intended). Then again, "Dutch" translates neither "Hollands" or "Nederlands"--or it translates both--so the adjective is usually a safe bet. Does this help?<p>Lady, the Dutch commentator did indeed ask me to name every German state from which bricks were hauled (no German states were mentioned). [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 21:10, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
:*A Lancaster bomber, shot up and with its navigational instruments destroyed, was returning from a night run in thick cloud. The pilot decided to land on the first piece of flat land he could find. They landed in a field and accosted a man who was cycling past. "Oo sont nous?" they asked. [[Parts of Holland|"'Olland"]] replied the man as he cycled off. The crew returned to the bomber, grabbed their Dutch phrase-books and set fire to the bomber. At that moment an English policeman arrived, and asked if they required an ambulance.  [[User:Xanthomelanoussprog|Xanthomelanoussprog]] ([[User talk:Xanthomelanoussprog|talk]]) 21:27, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
:*Oh, haha, I had no idea what "where the stones came to call" meant. Now I get it [sort of]. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 23:37, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
::*Mark Twain noted that peculiarity already. Odd that GTrans can't handle hit--"te noemen" is an infinitival phrase that in such constructions would be at the end of the clause in Dutch. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 23:40, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

== World Mixed Martial Arts Federation ==

Was there a reason you didn't delete the above article after the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/P.A.M.A.]] or was it, as I suspect, a simple oversight?  Thank you. [[User:Papaursa|Papaursa]] ([[User talk:Papaursa|talk]]) 17:58, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
*Oversight--didn't see it was a double. Thanks. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 20:54, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

== Resolution  ==

Please let me know what you think about the resolution for the  [[Battle of Jamal]] article on the talk page. I just posted a proposal. Thanks. [[User:Zabranos|Zabranos]] ([[User talk:Zabranos|talk]]) 02:08, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
*What solution? There's only a note on one specific source (without discussion) and a link to an external bibliography site. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 04:57, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Barnstar of Reversion Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | For your actions around ''The [[Gilbert Tuhabonye]] affair''.  '''[[User:DerBorg|Dэя]]-[[User talk:DerBorg|Бøяg]]''' 14:52, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
|}

Thanks for the actions you've done about the [[Gilbert Tuhabonye]] ''affair''. By the way, I suspect a case of sockpuppetry for the same purpores with the sockmaster [[:Special:Contributions/GilbertsGazelles|GilbertsGazelles]] (the name is the same of Gilbert's Gazelles foundation): the users suspected are [[Special:Contributions/PlfugerTxn|PlfugerTxn]], [[Special:Contributions/CBrownATX|CBrownATX]] (same edits just one day before [[Special:Contributions/Mischamp|Mischamp]]) and, maybe, [[Special:Contributions/70.239.13.126|70.239.13.126]]. Is this a case for [[WP:SPI|SPI]]? This was [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism&diff=prev&oldid=573852228 my report at WP:AIV]. Thanks again. --'''[[User:DerBorg|Dэя]]-[[User talk:DerBorg|Бøяg]]''' 14:54, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
*Thanks. As for the SPI, I just blocked a bunch of accounts I found in that article's history, including its creator. I have not looked at the IP (SPI wouldn't do much with it anyway, and they may be autoblocked by now), and the article (now seriously de-spammed) is still protected. What an SPI could do for us is give us a tool to prevent future disruption, so if you like, go ahead, file it and explain the situation; you can ask for Check User just to create a record, a paper trail. Hey, maybe ''we'' should start handing out the [[Shining Star of Perseverance]]! Thanks for keeping an eye on it, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:58, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
::Lol :-D ... Well, I've seen the blocks. So, if I open an SPI, the "titled" sockmaster may be the oldest, [[Special:Contributions/Utcrosscountry|Utcrosscountry]]. I'm a noob about this tool (never opened a SPI case), but I can try. Edits of this users are really too much similar per style and ''behavior''. BTW, good work. Regards :-) --'''[[User:DerBorg|Dэя]]-[[User talk:DerBorg|Бøяg]]''' 15:15, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:::Well... I'm studying the technical how-to about the SPI and I think I'll try, maybe later. Anyway, just a question: do you think that [[Lucas Fox International Properties|this article]] needs a simple cleanup and de-pov, or an ''AFDeletion'' request because it is entirely wroten as an advert? I've this doubt from August: the subject may be notable but the content is quite all a promo. It seems to me that you are very expert in this field. Greets. --'''[[User:DerBorg|Dэя]]-[[User talk:DerBorg|Бøяg]]''' 16:02, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
::::OK, what you do depends on what you see/want. You could have tagged this as G11 since, as you signaled, the writing is totally promotional. Now, that's a matter of some judgment and the patrolling admin might say it's not irredeemable. I acted on that possibility and trimmed and tweaked. I've gone through all the links (''all'' the links) and you can see what's left. If you like, you can send it to AfD now; it would be far to say in that AfD that pruning has already taken place, and that editors should maybe look at the earlier version also. Before you do that, you could do some searching and see if there is anything more in Google News for instance than the mere mentions I removed (check the links I removed and you'll see that's all it was). If that doesn't produce anything, AfD is proper. You could also tag it as A7, arguing that there is no ''credible'' claim to importance; again, that's a matter of judgment and an admin might say there is, in which case AfD is the next step. So it's up to you, and it will depend on ([[WP:BEFORE]]) there is anything else you can find. Happy days, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:28, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
::::About the SPI: I wouldn't list UTcrosscountry as the master, though it's worthwhile mentioning it. It's so old there's little that they could do with it, and at any rate the recent suspicions are stronger. But I could be wrong; it depends on what the SPI clerk thinks is reasonable. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:38, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

:[[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/GilbertsGazelles|SPI case opened]]. I've indicated GilbertsGazelles as sockmaster but I've listed also Utcross (could be... or not). Ah yes, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lucas_Fox_International_Properties&diff=574200161&oldid=569659979 wow]! you really cleaned it up :-) my congrats. Yes, my doubt was about the notability. Suddenly I search on Google. This looked like notable but ''impossible to save''. Congrats, again. :-) Regards... --'''[[User:DerBorg|Dэя]]-[[User talk:DerBorg|Бøяg]]''' 21:46, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

== so so sorry ==

I Am very sorry about my edits. What Is happening is My mouse is Ghost clicking the RollBack option on igloo. I respect your decision to revoke My Roll Back permission. I with that there was an are you sure You want rollBack option on the computer. So In Conclusion I reviewed my mistakes and found that my Mouse is ghost clicking and I have fixed the problem. So the reverts where the Fault of my mouse and not of my Organ. Thank you.--[[User:Jeffrd10|Jeffrd10]] ([[User talk:Jeffrd10|talk]]) 16:42, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
*OK. Well, you know what you need to do (see my message on your talk page), besides fixing your mouse. Thank you, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:46, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

== Question regarding COI and OR ==

Hi Drmies,  hope all is well.  I have a small query that I would to address to you regarding conflict of interest and original research/self-publishing.  In a recent discussion, an editor on Wikipedia openly admitted to also being an editor for a website, who's sources we have been using for citations on articles.  And not only that, the editor alone has also added sources from their own website (including ones written by themselves) to articles on Wikipedia.  Is this allowed or does it breach a few core policies?  [[User:Wesley Mouse|<span style="color:#123524">'''Wesley'''</span>]] ☮ [[User talk:Wesley Mouse|<span style="color:#000080">'''''Mouse'''''</span>]] 16:55, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
*Yes, things are fine, thanks. Hope you are well also. Your query--depends on the circumstances. If an editor cites themselves from a reliable source, then the only problem is the COI, which may or may not prevent the editor from being objective. If that website is not reliable, then there is a problem; the way to tackle it might be to establish a consensus that it is not a [[WP:RS]]. In principle there's nothing against citing oneself, so to speak, but context is everything. Where's this happening? Do you think admin intervention is required? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:00, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:*I'm good too thanks, got my training session for [[Glasgow 2014]] Commonwealth Games this Wednesday.  In regards to my concern, I'm not 100% sure if admin intervention is required or not, as I have never come across a scenario like this before; I am literally wading uncharted waters.  As you can see [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Eurovision_Song_Contest_2014&oldid=574119192 here] the editor in question states they also work for [http://www.escunited.com/home/ escunited.com], although they state they would never cite something published, yet there are sources from the website used on various articles, some even citing the author in the reftags.  And it concerns me also that the editor may have ousted himself too, see editors comment [http://www.escunited.com/home/conchita-wurst-brings-out-the-worst/ on this post].  They openly declare their Wiki-name.  I'm really not sure which direction to take on this matter.  Any advice would be gratefully received.  [[User:Wesley Mouse|<span style="color:#123524">'''Wesley'''</span>]] ☮ [[User talk:Wesley Mouse|<span style="color:#000080">'''''Mouse'''''</span>]] 17:13, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
::*I'm not sure either. Ask yourself what the problem is. That they have a COI? That can be handled--they should not cite themselves for anything contentious, and it's best if they don't cite themselves at all. That their website(s) is not a reliable source? (I don't know if that's what's happening.) If so, start a thread on [[WP:RSN]] and have it dealt with in that way. Whether the first or the second is a problem, it should be clear that Wikipedia is not to increase attention to one's own work. If they want to out themselves that's their business; I assume they know what they're doing. You can't hold everyone's hand. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 18:47, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:::*I'm wondering whether I should contact the user personally, and make them aware of COI and the avoidance of citing themselves, as well as pointing out the ousting side of things, just in case they are not aware that they unintentionally have outed real names.  [[User:Wesley Mouse|<span style="color:#150879">'''Wesley'''</span>]] [[User talk:Wesley Mouse|<span style="color:#978051">'''Mᴥuse'''</span>]] 19:03, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
::::*Do it on-wiki; that's best. On their talk page. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 19:05, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::*Well I did it, I contacted the editor and made them aware of my concerns.  And thankfully they understood and has placed a disclaimer on their user page to stipulate that they contribute for a website that is in connection with a topic that they are also a member of a WikiProject - thus notifying others that they will not breach COI.  I feel so much relief now knowing that the matter has been resolved peacefully.  Thank you once again for your trusted and superb advice, as always!  [[User:Wesley Mouse|<span style="color:#150879">'''Wesley'''</span>]] [[User talk:Wesley Mouse|<span style="color:#978051">'''Mᴥuse'''</span>]] 00:46, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

== Grammar ==

''Sunnie's believe in this occasion and believe in what the prophet said but they don't follow the seal of prophets. Any one's I am master Ali the master oh Allah be friend with any one who is friend with him and be enemy with any one who is enemy with him. meaning any one who is enemy of  Allah is enemy of Ali and any one who is friend with Allah is friend with Ali. prophets saying''. This needs an English professor, if anyone has the time... Or cares. [[Eid al-Ghadeer]]  It is way to mixed up for me. I have enough problems with the  [[Cottage]] article's Russian part. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 17:47, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:More than just grammatical problems: the article actually argues with itself. The lead says Sunnis don't observe the day, and then the portion you quoted says they do. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 17:54, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

:*Yes. But maybe they celebrate 'occasion', they just don't follow 'the seal of prophets', [[Khatam an-Nabiyyin]]...? They have a rather complicated religion structure, from the Prophet (with big P), and The Quran the central religious text of Islam, (through the angel Gabriel), to the [[Hadith]]s ('tradition', meaning a report  sayings of Muhammad) and further to the different interpretations of living and dead Islamic religious leaders, ulamas and imams... and so on. Not to forget the inner, mystical dimension of Islam, nicest of all, but with no real authority. I am not very good on Islamology, and this article is not going to make me any better. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 18:26, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

::The incoherent subsection was added a couple of days ago; I removed it and neatened up the rest. If it had all been like that, I would have added it to the "needing improvement" section of [[WP:Pages needing translation into English]], which has led me to read about the most amazing things. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 18:09, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:::*Oh, thanks. Nice. The most amazing things like [[Sintir]]? [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 18:34, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
::::*Well done you all. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 18:48, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::* <nowiki>:)</nowiki>[[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 18:51, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::*Is that a Trace Elliott stack that Sintir player has? Wonder how it sounds. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 18:55, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::*Me to. Now I am the one with bad grammar, this edit [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Celibacy&diff=574227925&oldid=572807705, My edit] on [[Celibacy#Christianity]] is probably much torturing and offending the English language, any one of you nice people could take look plEASE!!!! A Google translation of my own unversity stuff, (lots of refs of course) [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 19:56, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::::*OK, have a look now. But I do think you need page numbers for those books, so you may well need to unpack the repeated references I introduced. And you owe me a small favour; I don't like to work on Christian stuff :-) [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 20:46, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::* GGREAT! Thanks!! Sure, no problem, page nr. To unpack the repeated references, well, sorry don't know how. Avoiding the Christians,  I will try but I can't really avoid them, compairing different religions, in between... And still it is good to know about the history of it, Christianity shaped much of the European culture, and Americas too.  Thanks again. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 20:52, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::::::*Yes, that's why I had to study it in school '-) What I mean is you used, for example, Chadwick several times, so I made those all <nowiki><ref name=Chadwick></nowiki>. But if the first reference to his book was, for example, to page 225, and the second was to page 217, you would change the "ref name" stuff on the first one back to just "ref" and stick p. 225 after the ISBN, and then on the second one (I) would write "Chadwick, p. 217". Make sense? And could you and anyone else watch over [[Fairhair dynasty]] while I go to bed? I've reverted 3 times and I have to be up tonight to moderate a discussion. Many thanks in advance. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 21:02, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::::*Ah, the illiterati are following you around. Ah well. Yes, go on now, all is well. Favonian ar on et. How is your Grotte Potion, by the way? Is it well-stocked with Semblance? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 23:11, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::::::::*I have no idea what he refers to there but glad you guys are good at using these buttons, and I think I just doubled my block count. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 03:14, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::::::*Doubled? That's all? You'll never make the big bucks as an admin. [[User:Writ Keeper|Writ&nbsp;Keeper]]&nbsp;[[User Talk: Writ Keeper|&#9863;]][[Special:Contributions/Writ_Keeper|&#9812;]] 03:19, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::::::::::*I know! (What big bucks?) [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 03:24, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::*Haha Writ Keeper, vad ar upp? I thought of you the other day, while desperately trying to put meat on the bones of [[Usna (Deirdre legend)]]. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 03:30, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::*That was a fun article to write.  I'm starting to get the itch to write another (long overdue, I know), but my new job is perhaps not the best suited for it. [[User:Writ Keeper|Writ&nbsp;Keeper]]&nbsp;[[User Talk: Writ Keeper|&#9863;]][[Special:Contributions/Writ_Keeper|&#9812;]] 03:35, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

== Your expertise ==

Hey Doc, can you take a look at {{noping|Dataonly}}. First copyvios, then other stuff, now repeatedly removing pronunciation etc? Perhaps you'll have better luck than Bbb or me. cheers. &mdash;[[User:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#BA181F;">Spaceman</span>]]'''[[User_talk:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#2B18BA;">Spiff</span>]]''' 18:40, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
*Sure. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 18:54, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:*Dank je. &mdash;[[User:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#BA181F;">Spaceman</span>]]'''[[User_talk:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#2B18BA;">Spiff</span>]]''' 19:05, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
::*Well, that was easy, honorary Dutchman. Next block is longer, and for incompetence. How you're doing well, Spiffy. Remember, we're having beer and wings this Friday; bring your swimming trunks since it might be the last time this year. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 19:07, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
:::*Just wonderful here, especially when Sitush doesn't give me socks to clean. BTW, do [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Farhad_shahnawaz&oldid=574081448 read the third sentence of the Personal life section]! I don't think my biology classes have done me well. &mdash;[[User:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#BA181F;">Spaceman</span>]]'''[[User_talk:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#2B18BA;">Spiff</span>]]''' 19:34, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
::::*Whoa. That's fucked up, man. You hanging out with Sitush? Tell him I said hi, and that I'm glad he found someone else to do his dirty laundry. We'd all be better off if he were an admin, but he'd get laughed out of RfA, of course. (by a choir of caste socks) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 19:36, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

== Your submission at AfC [[Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/John_H._Dunning_Prize|John H. Dunning Prize]] was accepted ==
<div style="
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padding-top:0.5em;
padding-bottom:0.5em;
width:20em;
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margin-bottom: 1.5em;
margin-left: 1.5em;
width: 90%;
">[[File:AFC-Logo.svg|50px|left]] '''[[John H. Dunning Prize]], which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.'''<br> 
You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to [[Wikipedia]]. {{#if:{{#invoke:IPAddress|isIp|1=Drmies}}
 |You may wish to consider [[Wikipedia:Why create an account?|registering an account]] so you can create articles yourself
 |Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can [[Wikipedia:Starting an article|create articles yourself]], and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation|Articles for Creation]] if you prefer
}}.
* If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk|help desk]]'''.
* If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider {{leave feedback/link|page=Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation|text=leaving us some feedback}}.
Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!
[[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 19:29, 23 September 2013 (UTC)</div><!--Template:Afc talk-->
*You're welcome, Drmies! [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 15:58, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

== Thanks! ==
Hi, thanks for leaving me the guidelines on my talk page. I have redone the article in my [[User:Internet_Commenter/sandbox|sandbox]]. Please take a look when you have the time and let me know if it is ok. I'd appreciate it. [[User talk:Internet Commenter]] 16:37, 23 September 2013 (EST)
*Yeah, sorry, but that couldn't stay in article space. Most important thing is that you find [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] that prove that your subject is notable by our guidelines. Reviews, newspaper articles, that sort of thing. What you need is text with product history and all that, verified, instead of lists of offerings... Good luck. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 22:40, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

== Can you lend a hand? ==

We've got a problem child, per my recent reversions. Thanks and hope you're well. [[User:JNW|JNW]] ([[User talk:JNW|talk]]) 22:40, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
*Sorry, dinner first... [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 22:41, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
**I think I got it. [[User:Writ Keeper|Writ&nbsp;Keeper]]&nbsp;[[User Talk: Writ Keeper|&#9863;]][[Special:Contributions/Writ_Keeper|&#9812;]] 22:43, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
***Hehe yes you did. What I did was eat black beans and pork and rice, with fresh salsa and avocado, and hot sauce. It was delicious. Thanks WK. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 23:09, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

== GAISANO ==

I'm really pissed off with my edits in [[Gaisano]] being deleted.. All data are being collected are all facts.. the same with the [[SM Supermalls]] where all of there mall branches are listed.. The same goes to [[Gaisano|Gaisano Mall]], all branches should be listed to guide the readers about the existing brances  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kadyawbutuanon|Kadyawbutuanon]] ([[User talk:Kadyawbutuanon|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kadyawbutuanon|contribs]]) 13:58, 24 September 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
*{{tps}} Hi Kady, I would suggest you take a look at [[WP:NOTDIRECTORY]]. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 14:11, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
*Thank you Lady. Not all facts have encyclopedic value. For instance, my school has a little bit of floodland on its campus, and we have a greenhouse with plants in it for biology students. Also, there's a chain called "Chicken Express" in the cafeteria--none of these things are noteworthy at all. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:15, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

== Blatant canvassing... ==

(although without desire or expectation of any particular outcome) Drmies, put on your medievalist hat: anything useful to contribute to [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Heartstone (artifact)]]? I'm also pinging {{U|Yngvadottir}}. I'm not sure who the other Middle Ages scholars are here. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 01:48, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
*Consider {{U|Ealdgyth}} and {{U|Mike Christie}}. I'm listening to Talk Talk, ''[[Live at Montreux 1986]]'', so I may be a while. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:12, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
*I had a look and summed up what I found. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 02:57, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

== Dave Brown ==

What makes you think Dave Brown was referred to as David Brown?  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/114.198.117.70|114.198.117.70]] ([[User talk:114.198.117.70|talk]]) 02:28, 26 September 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
* Look up [[Loaded question]]. And start a discussion on the talk page or on [[WP:RM]]. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 04:00, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
** You should look up deflection.[[WP:COMMONNAME]] indicates Dave Brown is the preferred title, why shouldn't it apply here?  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/114.198.117.70|114.198.117.70]] ([[User talk:114.198.117.70|talk]]) 04:17, 26 September 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
***Why don't you bring that up on the article talk page instead of here? And since you're such a smartass, can't you figure out how to sign your messages or request a move at [[WP:RM]]? I have no opinion on Dave vs. David, it's a stupid discussion and not worth my time (so I don't think ''anything'' about who was referred to how)--but it's what you should have started. It's really not that difficult, you know. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:51, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

== The Grand Duchy of Flandrensis ==

Drmies, could you weigh in on the sourcing being discussed at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Grand Duchy of Flandrensis (Grand Duchy of Flandrensis (Second time) nomination)]]?  Its been proposed to have you look, if you haven't been asked already.  Cheers.--'''[[User:Milowent|Milowent]]''' • <small><sup style="position:relative">[[Special:Contributions/Milowent|has]]<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">[[User talk:Milowent|spoken]]</span></sup></small> 03:55, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
*Thanks for the note, Milowent. If "micronation" means "nation", then certainly I can call that a "meaningful discussion". :) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 04:22, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

== Help needed by inept admin ==

Gah. I am trying to help [[User:Saulalvarez]] master providing references for his changes to numbers and other basic data at US retailers' pages. It looks as if I'll have to chase down references for some of them myself, and two of us are trying to explain referencing to him but I'm not sure what the mobile phone interface allows anyway? ... But he also hasn't got the hang of talk pages yet. He's created [[Talk:Ground Zero]] which can probably be left, at least for now. But he's also created [[Talk:Yngvadottir]], which really needs hist-merging with my actual talkpage, STAT. And I cannot figure out how to do so. I managed an easy histmerge one time but right now I am afraid History of Alabama and Alabama History are beyond me. Anybody with tools who has this version of AN/I watchlisted feeling extra-altruistic? (It would also be nice if you could join in trying to help Saulalvarez). Meep. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 16:51, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
*You really wanna save that [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Yngvadottir&action=history one single edit]? How about you just copy it and delete the page as a test page, and then paste the comment to your own talk page giving proper attribution in the edit summary and in a comment on the talk page? Or you could make a meta talk page in which you explain...or you could just not worry about it. Guess what I would do. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:57, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
*{{done}} And I just deleted that [[Talk:Ground Zero]] as well. The milk of your human kindness is very sweet, Yngvadottir. :) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:00, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
::LOL thanks. I need to save the attribution, he has not been prolific in talkpage edits. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 17:03, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
:::Does he need a page count for his expenses? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:05, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
::::He needs not to look uncommunicative - I'm afraid he's re-reverted me despite my telling him the site says something different, we're both at 3R, so that's it, I can't help him any more :-( [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 17:27, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
::::*A place to step back , here: [[Our Lady the Garden Enclosed]], a village in [[Warfhuizen]], in the extreme north of the [[Netherlands]]. It is the only Dutch [[Hermitage (religious retreat)|hermitage]] currently inhabited by a [[hermit]]. Why not two? Three? (Just joking) [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 19:48, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::*That is a fascinating article. I'll have to look into that. Thanks! [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:35, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

== Only was? ==

Only was an airline since 2010 [[PRiMA Aero Trasporti Italiani]]...? And [[Splash (South Korean TV series)]] and [[Pup Cove]]. And what is this? [[The Protar Affair]] and    [[1985 Dhivehi League]] and [[Charles Johnson (arena football)]] whaterwer... And do we write articles on train stations? like [[Prujakan Station]] and [[Bojonegoro Station]] ??? And buss stations? [[Truro bus station]]. Are we ..serious?[[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 20:33, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
:On stations - you should see [[User:Pumpie]]'s contributions. On [[PRiMA Aero Trasporti Italiani]], look now and all will be explained. Well, almost all. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 20:57, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
::Hehe, are "buss stations" like [[kissing booth]]s? [[User:Mandarax|<span style="color:green">M<small>AN</small>d<small>ARAX</small></span>]]&nbsp;<span style="color:blue">•</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandarax|<span style="color:#999900"><small>XAЯA</small>b<small>ИA</small>M</span>]] 21:01, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
:::*Feel fre to nominate, or?  [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 21:09, 26 September 2013 (UTC){{smiley}}
::*So if a transportation portal had a fair (for some reason), they could open a buss station ''within'' a bus station? At a [[Renaissance Festival]], there may be kissing wenches. If they also helped clean tables, they could be bussing while bussing. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 01:56, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

BTW... Drmies, this is your official harassment for an overly large talk page. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 02:01, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
*Again? Size matters, I suppose. Alright, I'll get on it. But not now. Can I go home? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:33, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
**I'll not stop you. What are you doing out this late on a school night anyway? Have fundraising projects started for your kids this school year? I had a phone call tonight from my niece C1, who is reluctantly having to ask for money for something or other at her school. Like I could possibly tell her no? <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 03:08, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
***Beowulf and Film, from 6:20 to 9. Tonight we finished ''[[The 13th Warrior]]''. Not bad, though, surprisingly, my students do not think of Antonio B. as man candy. Fundraising, well, yeah, sure--there was a "back to school" "party" which we could miss by virtue of having written a $50 check. Free public education my foot. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 03:28, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

== Humour ==

Today, the 2014 [[Michelin star]]s were announced. [[The House (restaurant)|The House]] in Ardmore, under general manager Adriaan Bartels and head chef [[Martijn Kajuiter]] (yep, both Dutchies abroad), retained the star they got in 2010. And just like last year, the same day the article about Martijn Kajuiter was updated by an IP. Remarkable. {{smiley}} <span style="border:1px solid green; padding:0 2px">[[User:The Banner|<span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The&nbsp;Banner</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:The Banner|<i style="color:maroon">talk</i>]]</span> 00:12, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

== Serious stuff  ==

Two users with similar names working on the same article. No abuse found, but this ain't correct...
* User 1: [[User:Ishika Chaudhary Model]] ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ishika_Chaudhary_Model Contributions])
* User 2: [[User:Ishika Chaudhary]] ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ishika_Chaudhary Contributions])
* Articles in common: [[User:Ishika Chaudhary]] (!!) and [[Mohinder Singh Gill]]

Can you take a look at this because I smell something fishy! <span style="border:1px solid green; padding:0 2px">[[User:The Banner|<span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The&nbsp;Banner</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:The Banner|<i style="color:maroon">talk</i>]]</span> 00:20, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
*I deleted that user page and left a note for both. Thanks, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:32, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
**Thanks. <span style="border:1px solid green; padding:0 2px">[[User:The Banner|<span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The&nbsp;Banner</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:The Banner|<i style="color:maroon">talk</i>]]</span> 15:45, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

== One step forward, two steps baaack ==

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#PA_and_sexual_harassment_by_User:AmericanDad86 He's baaack]. Actually, he's been back a while. He's got impeccable taste, though; he doesn't like you, either.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 00:38, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


==Mass reverting of IP sock tags of K-pop articles==
Hi Drmies. {{u|GregJackP}} is mass-reverting tagging of IPs as socks and adds speedy-deletion requests for IP sock categories. S/he is also reverting the tagging I performed as part of K-pop IP socking. I don't doubt the user's good faith for doing this but some of these IPs are strong [[WP:DUCK]]s and deleting their sock tags and categories will set back the sock control in these areas. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GregJackP&diff=prev&oldid=574682568 I left a message] at the user's talkpage that, if needed, I will open SPIs to determine the validity of the tagging. Do you think there could be any other way of handling this, other than opening multiple SPIs solely for IPs? [[User:Dr.K.|Δρ.Κ.]]&nbsp;<small><sup style="position:relative">[[User talk:Dr.K.|λόγος]]<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-5.2ex;*left:-5.5ex">[[Special:Contributions/Dr.K.|πράξις]]</span></sup></small>  01:41, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

:Hi.  This has been an area that has been discussed at ANI, regarding the bullying by one editor towards IP editors and the mass-tagging of IPs as suspected socks without presenting any evidence.  [[WP:HSOCK]] is very clear.  An IP or editor may only be tagged as a suspected sock after they have been blocked <u>and</u> there is sufficient evidence to support the tag.  The tags I'm removing have not been blocked, have not been sent to SPI, and have no evidence of socking posted on their talk page.  Any tags that have any of the three I'm not touching.  I replied to Dr.K. that I would hold off on his if he was going to present evidence at an SPI. 

:The arbitrary tagging of IPs as socks, without presenting evidence in any manner (or in the case at ANI, having "secret" evidence and refusing to present it) is not the way that Wikipedia operates.  I'm sure that Dr.K. has grounds, all that needs to be done is that it be presented in the appropriate forum.  Regards, <span style="border:1px solid #900;padding:2px;background:#fffff4">[[User:GregJackP|<span style="color:#900;font-size:110%;font-family:Mistral">GregJackP</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:GregJackP|<span style="color:#900;font-size:60%">Boomer!</span>]]</span>  01:51, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

::Thank you Greg. I fully respect your position. I will try to find a solution to this so that everyone will be satisfied. Best regards. [[User:Dr.K.|Δρ.Κ.]]&nbsp;<small><sup style="position:relative">[[User talk:Dr.K.|λόγος]]<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-5.2ex;*left:-5.5ex">[[Special:Contributions/Dr.K.|πράξις]]</span></sup></small>  02:09, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Drmies, any suggestions on how to proceed?  It appears that there are a massive number of IPs tagged as suspected socks, none of whom have been previously blocked, been to SPI, or had any evidence presented against them.  A number of the editors who have tagged them have done so in good faith, but without having put forward any evidence on socking.  As I'm sure you are aware, the inappropriate labeling as a sock has been a recurring theme in contentious areas, such as climate change, fringe, etc, with some sock campaigns reaching a false positive level as high as one in five (20%).  I'm open to any ideas.  <span style="border:1px solid #900;padding:2px;background:#fffff4">[[User:GregJackP|<span style="color:#900;font-size:110%;font-family:Mistral">GregJackP</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:GregJackP|<span style="color:#900;font-size:60%">Boomer!</span>]]</span>  14:09, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
*On your talk page you indicated there's discussion in two venues. Is that not going anywhere? I disagree with the sock tagging for reasons given above; the 4im argument on your talk page does not really convince me. There is no real solution that I can see since CU doesn't do much with socks; a clerk/admin might agree that there is strong behavioral evidence of socking, but all those K-pop edits look exactly the same so that's kind of a wash. A different solution, on the other side of the problem, is for editors to ask for long-term semi-protection on the strong suspicion of socking (besides the addition of fan cruft). I am not opposed to that. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:16, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

::Actually it was three venues total.  At VPP, at WP:HSOCK talk, and at AN; all of which have pretty much died without consensus as to the issue here (although the subject of the AN discussion has agreed to not tag anymore).  The way I read the discussions there were basically two camps.  First, those that said the current HSOCK policy was wrong and that editors should be able to tag IPs and users as suspected socks.  Second, those that said the current HSOCK policy did not allow that, that you had to have some evidence of socking to tag them.

::My concern with the unlimited tagging is twofold.  First, it is pointless to tag IPs in the long run - the users that occupy that IP change.  Second, tagging IPs leads to the tagging of registered accounts on little to no evidence, which in turn leads to a high rate of false positives (c.f., the Scibaby socks and Climate Change, at one point 20% false positives).  That in turn becomes a weapon to be used to end discussion instead of fostering it. 

::I agree on the long-term semi-protection, but feel like we need something more to resolve this.  I'm just not clever enough to think of what the solution might be.  Thanks, <span style="border:1px solid #900;padding:2px;background:#fffff4">[[User:GregJackP|<span style="color:#900;font-size:110%;font-family:Mistral">GregJackP</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:GregJackP|<span style="color:#900;font-size:60%">Boomer!</span>]]</span>  15:21, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

==[[Elizabeta Nemeth]]==
Don't you think that your tag is exaggeration? Like, I provided 3 reliable sources before you tagged it, that should be enough for a stub.--[[User:Mishae|Mishae]] ([[User talk:Mishae|talk]]) 04:29, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
*Yes, I don't, and no, you didn't. You got [http://www.bloodmed.com/home/aboutbloodmed.asp one interview] with a website whose notability is not yet proven, [http://www.intrinsiclifesciences.com/company/management/27-elizabeta-nemeth-phd one resume] on the website of a company she co-founded, and [http://www.lung.med.ucla.edu/faculty/nemeth.htm another resume] on the site of her employer. So, stub or not, these are not reliable sources for a BLP; in fact, the question is rather why I shouldn't tag it for BLP PROD or nominate her for deletion (well, the latter is easy: some Googling finds her to be most likely notable, though you wouldn't guess it from her article). [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 04:38, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
**Yes, and she is notable, why not helping me out a bit rather then criticizing? Either way, I added another ''reliable source'' hopefully it will be of any good.--[[User:Mishae|Mishae]] ([[User talk:Mishae|talk]]) 12:48, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
***You may not realize it but I did help you a little bit, and Yngvadottir a lot more. This page is being visited by some hardcore, bad-ass editors who are lethal on their keyboards. They're like ninjas, only they're Wikipedia editors. And they're all invited to one final pool party this Sunday. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:06, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
****Well, I don't think I will be able to attend that party of yours. I live in Minnesota. Thanks all for all your help!--[[User:Mishae|Mishae]] ([[User talk:Mishae|talk]]) 15:06, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
*****I'll think of you at cocktail time, when we're sitting outside in the sun. Keep warm, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:08, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
******You know, one of these days, some editor is going to think you mean it with these invitations, and show up at your house. Oh wait, that already happened. :) <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 01:53, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
******And I meant it! I wish you could come by again. Sippy wants to see you again, and you can talk Harry Pooper with her. Door's always open, Lady. And you know the beer is tasty. OMG! You haven't seen baby Liam yet! [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:01, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::* I've been knocking on his door for the past 45 minutes. I swear I hear them in there. Guess I'm sleeping on the porch swing tonight. <span style="font-family:'segoe ui','lucida grande';letter-spacing:2px;text-shadow:0 0 1px #999">&nbsp;[[User:Davidiad|davidiad]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Davidiad|{&nbsp;t&nbsp;}]]</span> 01:57, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::*Oh, that was you? Sorry. I'll be right there. (What you're hearing is the kids watching the lion and the witch and some other things.) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:01, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
*******We might just have to make that happen. I have seen pictures of the cute little boy, but not the real thing, and I'd enjoy hearing what Sippy thinks of HP, not to mention the rest of the Family Mies. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 02:14, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
********Absolutely. We have a guest bedroom and you're welcome to stay. If you like I'll take you to the service at the Unitarian church on Atlanta Highway if you're here on a weekend. Though I don't know how welcoming they would be: you know they're a pretty closed bunch. BTW, Mrs. Drmies might want to go there as well. She hasn't been in a church since...well, God knows when! [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:18, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
*********This is sounding like the start of a good plan. Let's continue the discussion off-wiki. <span style="font-family: Lucida Calligraphy">[[User:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #442288">Lady</span>]]<span style="color: #22aaaa">of</span>[[User_Talk:LadyofShalott|<span style="color: #cc2288">Shalott</span>]]</span> 03:01, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

== User:Jamika64Gvua ==

That be a spambot. Like User:WardOTEzipe and many others.  Been going on for awhile now. -- [[User:Gogo Dodo|Gogo Dodo]] ([[User talk:Gogo Dodo|talk]]) 04:53, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
*So the magic was in the video link? I remember it said something about Windows, so I didn't watch it. Thanks for the update, Gogo Dodo. Oh, I thought of you the other day when a student returned that Dodo book to me. Did you get a copy or should I send it to you? And how are your left and right socks? I glanced at the SPI the other day and forgot the details, since it was too stupid to take up brain space. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 05:03, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
**No, the video link wasn't the magic.  I'd rather not say in the open what the tip off was. Beans and all. It is in the edit filter if you're curious. My real socks are fine and blue as usual. Those other socks I don't recognize. -- [[User:Gogo Dodo|Gogo Dodo]] ([[User talk:Gogo Dodo|talk]]) 03:46, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
*Oh, those spambots are all over Wikimedia. They've started blanking random pages on less-patrolled wikis in the hopes that nobody will see them... quite sickening. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 05:07, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
**Well, that's why we pay you, and Gogo, and Elockid, and all them others the big bucks. I ran for admin at least partly cause I saw too much 4chan, but that's relatively meaningless compared to spambots. Anyone for mandatory registering? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 05:23, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
**And it's always a pleasure to see both of you here. Rschen, I still don't know what to make of your user name. I just learned that you're a 23-year old Christian American male. I prefer thinking of you as an old German guy with a secret love for Kant--is that OK? Also, "140 active talk page stalkers"--well, you got over 200 watchers. That's not bad, I suppose, but you probably need to take more abusive admin actions if you want to hang with the big dogs: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gogo_Dodo&action=info#mw-pageinfo-watchers Gogo Dodo] is a mighty dodo but just an average dog, bwuhaha. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 05:29, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
***Well, there's always [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Newyorkbrad&action=info#mw-pageinfo-watchers Newyorkbrad]... and I always get pinged in the German Wikipedia IRC channel because apparently "rschen" is some sort of suffix there. What, I don't know, because I don't know any German. And I do not support IP editing, but a lot of people do (including the WMF)... *sigh*. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 05:41, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
****Yeah, that fucker's got me beat, though not by much. I need to work on that. <colbert tone>I hate you {{U|Newyorkbrad}}!</colbert tone> Plus, the moment he pays off his student loans (in 2036 or so) he'll make at least ten times what I make as a tenured prof. Well, at least I don't try to hide my lack of hair like he does.<p>Now, the IP part, we'll have to get back to that, and when I say "we" I mean "we". Irregardless (thank you W) of all the good IP edits I've seen over the years, I'm thinking that maybe the cons outweigh the pros.<p>Listen, 23-year old, it's not too late to learn German (or any other language; I assume you speak at least some Spanish), and then you'll learn that "chen" is a common suffix in German denoting "little one". A leftover of that you find in Madchen, a word you may be familiar with. The "s" preceding your "chen" is already there, one way or another, in the pronunciation--so if you're treated on those IRC channels (that Kiefer can tell you you should stay away from) like a cute little German, don't be surprised. Now, I haven't met my block quota for today, so let me get back to brass tacks. Later, and may your highways thrive, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 05:57, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

== A bit of background about [[The Rapid Development]] ==

Hey, I thought I'd give you a little background on [[The Rapid Development]]. It's part of a school project that's run by [[User:Moconnor1414]]. I ran into this situation after I found another of his articles that was nominated for deletion in some format. I tried explaining notability and whatnot, as the basic argument was "this is for school, we'll add sources as the course progresses". I also tried pointing him towards the school WP, which I don't think he's signed up for or at least has fully read through. 

There's an ongoing problem with a lot of his articles, as they're all being edited by people who appear to be almost entirely unaware of how Wikipedia is run and how notability, tone, and all of that works. I'm not trying to say they shouldn't edit, but I don't think that the instructor truly understands these guidelines and isn't really trying hard enough to learn them. So in other words, you have a lot of students editing articles like they're writing student essays because they don't know any better. That's why I'm kind of recommending that the article for Rapid Development get userfied to the professor's userspace, as any other non-notability issues will continue to develop. It'd be a much better idea to userfy it, let them do their schoolwork, and then we try to mop up after them. We can try to do it while it's in the userspace, but I have a strong suspicion that the edits will either be reverted or they'll be re-created in some format. This is sort of a big example of how not to do school related WP projects, in my opinion. I've tried at least twice to advise him, which I don't think he's entirely following. I think he's kind of got this "well, this is educational, which makes it useful" type of outlook. (sighs) [[User:Tokyogirl79|Tokyogirl79]][[user talk:Tokyogirl79|'''<span style='color: #19197;background-color: #FFFFFF;'>  (｡◕‿◕｡)</span>''']]  10:41, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
:*I've let [[User:RHaworth]] know about it as well. [[User:Tokyogirl79|Tokyogirl79]][[user talk:Tokyogirl79|'''<span style='color: #19197;background-color: #FFFFFF;'>  (｡◕‿◕｡)</span>''']]  10:43, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
*Thanks for the note. I had a suspicion already when I saw there were two new accounts on it, but had nothing else to go on. As for the article, we should just leave it be. It's on a totally notable subject and I've added the evidence for it: there is no way it's going to get deleted (I will eat my hat if it is). But thanks for the information, and thanks for trying with this teacher. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:57, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

==DYK for The Grave (poem)==
{{tmbox
|type = notice
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#27 September 2013|27 September 2013]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[The Grave (poem)]]''''', which you recently nominated. The fact was ''... that [[Robert Blair (poet)|Robert Blair]]'s [[Graveyard poets|graveyard poem]] '''''[[The Grave (poem)|The Grave]]''''' (1743) was illustrated by [[William Blake]] ''("Death's Door" pictured)'', whose original watercolors were lost until 2003?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[]].|{{#ifexist:Template:Did you know nominations/The Grave (poem)|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/The Grave (poem)]].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/The Grave (poem)|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template talk:Did you know/The Grave (poem)]].}} }} }} You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201309/The_Grave_(poem) quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYKNom -->  [[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 15:57, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

==Amy J. Metzger==
Does such [http://www.labaton.com/en/ourpeople/Amy-J-Metzger.cfm person] meets our notability for [[WP:Notability (law)]]?--[[User:Mishae|Mishae]] ([[User talk:Mishae|talk]]) 19:23, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
*I'm not an expert, but that resume strikes me as par for the course for a lawyer with a big firm and a privileged education. The proof is in the pudding: if reliable sources discuss her, then yes. On the basis of that resume, I'd say no. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 19:36, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
**and it would have to meet [[WP:BLP]], as that is the higher applicable standard. I did a google search, and she doesn't pop up, aside from the resume, and linkedin profile. so, no, she is not notable enough.
***Thanks from freeing me of writing an article that will be deleted either way. Question, this folks: [[Debra Schaumberg]] (director) and [[Karla Zadnik]] (awarded with some kind of an award) are they notable?.--[[User:Mishae|Mishae]] ([[User talk:Mishae|talk]]) 03:02, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
****Schaumberg, I don't see it; Zadnik, possibly. Deans are not automatically notable, so associate deans certainly don't qualify. Again, their notability will depend on whether there's coverage of them; I don't see any reason in the articles for notability (the awards don't seem to be major awards). [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:13, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
*****Well, as [[Debra Schaumberg]] goes, it says that she "have many awards"--[[User:Mishae|Mishae]] ([[User talk:Mishae|talk]]) 15:25, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
******My resume could say that too, but are those awards notable? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 15:36, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
*******Actually, if you look at the source, which is just a Bloomberg profile of her as a board member of a company, it says that she received numerous ''research'' awards. I've tagged the article as an A7.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 16:00, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

== ani ==

thanks for your comments on the ani/article. While certainly my own opinions on the topic are pretty obvious, I like to think I am open and rational and fair. If he had come in with a different attitude and a collaborative method, his points could be addressed. But by being so confrontational, it becomes a wasted effort. (Im not quite sure if he wasn't trolling us with how over the top some of his comments are). [[User:Gaijin42|Gaijin42]] ([[User talk:Gaijin42|talk]]) 00:37, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
*You know what, Gaijin, I think we've hashed this out before, maybe--but I couldn't tell from the comments in the threads I looked at who had what opinions. I think I know where some of the other editors stand, but those discussions have no bearing on it at all, so that's a good sign. Of course, everyone who disagrees with me is wrong! BTW, his points ''are'' being addressed; for the life of me, I don't know why y'all are so patient with him. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:46, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
::I try not to run to the teacher every time things don't go well on the playground, but after the 5th section it was a bit much. Since my own bias is strong in this topic, I try to give a lot of rope before I take some sort of action, otherwise I feel like I'm open to too much accusation of game/wikilawyering. Unfortunately it looks like you are the only person on ANI who thinks his behavior is worth commenting/acting on. [[User:Gaijin42|Gaijin42]] ([[User talk:Gaijin42|talk]]) 00:53, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/View of Jaffa]] ==

Hi Drmies-
I added an ALT version cropping out the sea wall. When you have a chance could you take another look. If it still doesn't work, so be it. Thanks-[[User:Godot13|Godot13]] ([[User talk:Godot13|talk]]) 02:27, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
*Thanks for the note and for your efforts. I still don't think it's an FP, but I do think it's better. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:47, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

== SG for "Der Busant" ==

{{tmbox
|style = notice
|small = 
|image = [[File:Two scenes from Der Busant cropped.jpg|95px]]
|text = On [[:de:Wikipedia:Hauptseite/Schon_gewusst/Archiv/2013/09|28 September 2013]], '''[[:de:Wikipedia:Hauptseite/Schon_gewusst/Archiv|Schon gewusst?]]''' was updated with a fact from your translation of the article "'''[[Der Busant]]'''", which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was: ''Das mittelalterliche Versepos [[:de:Der Busant|Der Busant]] handelt von einem Bussard, Abenteuern im Wald und einer Liebesgeschichte..'' You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page ([http://stats.grok.se/de/201303/Der_Busant quick check]).
}}
--[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 09:57, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
*Vielen Dank, Gerda! Das was sehr nett von dir. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:05, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

== Grunge ==

I understand that they are all not just solely grunge, but the fact that the matter you guys keep putting alternative rock next to it makes no sense. You need to understand grunge is a sub-genre of alternative rock, there's no need to put alternative rock next to it. Grunge is a perfectly understandable genre to label certain albums of that time as they were released during the grunge explosion. Its stupid when you label these genres from Nirvana's album as all these different genre when they are known that they are the founding fathers of the Seattle grunge sound and are the band that brought this genre to life. This goes for most of the other bands I have labeled as grunge. I don't understand why there's no need for citation as it is put into music for their unique grunge sound. Its not like you cannot hear the difference between grunge and metal or pop. <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Gluby|Gluby]] ([[User talk:Gluby|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gluby|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
*Well, all I can say is, really, whatever. You can think whatever you like, but what the articles reflect should be based on what reliable sources say. The rest is fun for over beers at the bar. BTW, I didn't label anything--I just reverted your unexplained and unverified changes. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:08, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

== Caw caw ==

So do you think [[Der Busant|our pet birdie]] is ready for the [[WP:GAN|open skies]]?&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 15:59, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
*I still have library work to do, I think. Give me a few days to look over what we have and what else there is. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 22:25, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
**Okay, no worries..&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 22:49, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

== Senior citizens ==

"I don't make any bad behaviours, I'm just wanna edit because I'm interested in articles. I'm a good faith editor I have nothing to do with these IP addresses. Sorry for the poor grammar, misspellings and other things. [[Old age|I'm really old]]." ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/NewFranco]) --[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 16:57, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

== Today's editing challenge ==

[[Laura van der Heijden]] [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 19:53, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
:"Ignited rave reviews", "I had the privilege of hearing her", "played with equal facility on the black notes as well as the white" etc. [[User:Xanthomelanoussprog|Xanthomelanoussprog]] ([[User talk:Xanthomelanoussprog|talk]]) 21:27, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

== [[Charles Darwinoffice]] ==

Just wanted to let you know, this article was a direct Google Translate of the lead of [[Charles Darwin]] into Filipino. [[User:Chris857|Chris857]] ([[User talk:Chris857|talk]]) 03:51, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
*Thanks. What a weird contribution. Has that editor come back? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 03:59, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

== Frivolities ==

It's our ten year anniversary, so the lady and I went down to cosmopolitan Little Rock, USA. We split a bottle of Nocturnum. I've had Tremens a few times and enjoyed it, but no more so than a Duvel vel sim., but the Nocturnum is the real deal. And she enjoyed it, too, which is saying something. The more beer a beer is, generally the less she can drink it. <span style="font-family:'segoe ui','lucida grande';letter-spacing:2px;text-shadow:0 0 1px #999">&nbsp;[[User:Davidiad|davidiad]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Davidiad|{&nbsp;t&nbsp;}]]</span> 04:45, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
*Ha, learned [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vel_sim. a new phrase!] Thanks! And my congratulations to you: ten years is not short; my congratulations to Mrs. Iad as well, of course. Yes, the Nocturnum is great though I couldn't really tell what makes it so different from the Tremens. But I've only had it twice or so. I'll give it another shot when I run into one (I was fortunate enough to find some St. Bernardus 8 on sale, and a few bottles of Scaldis, which I really like). Happy days to you and yours--and I thought of you yesterday, when AR gave A&M game for a bit. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:22, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

== To earn your pay ==

Can you take a look at {{noping|Harirajmohanhrm‎}}. He's been removing section titles including from articles that have passed various reviews such as GA/FA suggesting that they are not neutral and linking to some a(n imaginary) discussion and multiple editors have reverted him, but he's slow motion reverting just once or twice a day. And now a couple of drive-by GA nominations suggests that he's at it to glorify his favorite stars. Perhaps you or your watchers could take a look? cheers. &mdash;[[User:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#BA181F;">Spaceman</span>]]'''[[User_talk:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#2B18BA;">Spiff</span>]]'''
:[[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers/Archive 8#Section-headings for stages of career]] was where I got advice about it. You can see what they said and then how it fits with the embedded comment he adds (which was specifically written based on that advice at that time). I accidentally used [[WT:FILM]] instead of [[WT:ACTOR]] (main page where the full link I noted was) at some point, and now others are propagating my mistake:( Harirajmohanhrm‎ appears to be removing them by default, others (re)adding them by default, neither one necessarily addressing the actual meat of the issue: "are these era breakdowns (and especially their few-word descriptions) neutral and/or based on cited refs?". Some removed ones are neutral ("child artist") others added seem questionable at best ("breakthrough" for a many-year span, etc.).[[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 07:31, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
::reported him to [[WP:AN/I#disruptive editing by Harirajmohanhrm|AN/I]]. -- [[user:aunva6|Aunva6]]<sup>[[user talk:aunva6|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Aunva6|contribs]]</sup>  07:47, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
:::{{mention|DMacks}}, I didn't see your reverts on any of the articles that I reverted on, but only his (or I'd have asked you directly and not bothered the good doc!), in a couple of articles that I reverted (and for the most part I revert fanboys on there) Asin and Kaif -- some of the external profiles do use similar terminology. Besides there a few that have been through review processes, so they ought to be discussed prior to removal, and he's been asked politely by at least a few editors, though I do think an AN/I post is a tad early for this (though we might end up there later), I came to the good doc as he's often able to get the message across. &mdash;[[User:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#BA181F;">Spaceman</span>]]'''[[User_talk:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#2B18BA;">Spiff</span>]]''' 08:08, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
::::I'm just a {{tps}} here and didn't notice the pattern of the user in question until he asked on my talkpage (presumably I undid some of his edits or redid them after someone else undid). Just happened to have some of the longer history that predates that account altogether. And I agree that disruption is disruption especially if he cannot explain it other than by parroting someone else's unclear/mis-explanation, even if he winds up being right about what he's doing. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 08:28, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
*Or some of you can earn ''your'' pay and see how far out of line I am [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mormon_Tabernacle_Choir&action=history here], but you'll have to invest a minute and a half in checking the actual links. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 13:16, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
**you're in the right here. I even reverted his reversion. -- [[user:aunva6|Aunva6]]<sup>[[user talk:aunva6|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Aunva6|contribs]]</sup>  17:16, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
**Think of the children Drmies. BTW, the links are apparently for a program that already has another article, n'est-ce pas? My head hurts, but not as much as from when I had to read a best bollywood actresses link that had about 100 entries based on no criteria that was being spammed into those 100 actress articles here!&mdash;[[User:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#BA181F;">Spaceman</span>]]'''[[User_talk:SpacemanSpiff|<span style="color:#2B18BA;">Spiff</span>]]''' 18:49, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

== You've got mail ==

{{you've got mail}} [[User:Wesley Mouse|<span style="color:#150879">'''Wesley'''</span>]] [[User talk:Wesley Mouse|<span style="color:#978051">'''Mᴥuse'''</span>]] 20:26, 29 September 2013 (UTC)


==Wayne Hector==

Please see numerous accounts using unreferenced song discographies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Mac
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Kelly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Robson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Braide
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Falk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_T_Smith_production_discography
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rami_Yacoub
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Martin_production_discography#cite_ref-3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toby_Gad#Discography
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Luke_production_discography
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Blanco#Production_discography

Would this count as a reference source?
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/interviews/a486507/songwriter-wayne-hector-talks-one-direction-album-nicki-minaj.html
please advise?  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Hardzonebass9|Hardzonebass9]] ([[User talk:Hardzonebass9|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hardzonebass9|contribs]]) 17:57, 30 September 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
*Yeah, don't point to other stuff. Now, that article, that's a really good opportunity to add verified text to the Wikipedia article. A list of songs is not encyclopedic writing; it's resume stuff more than anything else. Take it as a challenge to improve the article, not the guy's resume. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 18:00, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

== Recreated deleted article ==

[[User:Dayvon Ross]] recreated an article you recently deleted ([[User:IamyourPR]]).  Not sure if it counted as G11, so I thought I'd just message you. [[User:EvergreenFir|EvergreenFir]] ([[User talk:EvergreenFir|talk]]) 19:01, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
*Well, I moved it to [[User:IamyourPR/sandbox]], which was blanked--but it's the exact same thing. BTW, those editors must be the same person as well, and that IP. I'm an admin so I should figure out what to do, but it's really naptime. Let {{U|Writ Keeper}} fix it--they have to earn their pay as well. Thanks, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 19:10, 30 September 2013 (UTC) <small>...and here...--[[User:Ukexpat|ukexpat]] ([[User talk:Ukexpat|talk]]) 00:31, 5 October 2013 (UTC)</small>
:Lol okay.  Just wanted to make someone aware of it. [[User:EvergreenFir|EvergreenFir]] ([[User talk:EvergreenFir|talk]]) 19:12, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
::I blocked Dayvon Ross indefinitely as a puppet, and I blocked IamyourPR for two weeks as the master.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 00:12, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
:::Hmm. Were they up to no good? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:16, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
::::Promotion (in my view).--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 00:29, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
:::::"The climate of Antarctica is very cold" or "The climate of Antarctica is that of a desert". Which one is better? Answer correctly and you get a cashew. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:41, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
::::::I've never been to Antartica. Will a cashew pay for me to go there? According to our article - and I believe everything Wikipedia says - both are true, in which case, the answer would be neither. That said, I prefer the first one because many (most?) deserts are hot. Can't we talk about desserts instead?--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 00:47, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Sorry, wrong answer. The second one is more interesting, grammatically. My daughter chose like you did. For dessert we have store-bought cherry pie: it's not worth the trip. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 01:11, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
::::::::Why does more interesting gramatically equate to better? Anyway, it's two to one: your daughter and I win. Please give her my cashew. I'm a dessert snob. I don't eat store-bought pies.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 01:22, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::I'm heavier than the two of you together, so I win. She's already brushed her teeth, so it'll be for tomorrow. This store-bought pie was revolting, no doubt. But hey, I grilled skirt steak and yellow squash and cooked pearl couscous. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 02:13, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

== Question ==

Hi Drmies, you revert my edit without any reason. That content has been removed by administrator two times, but that user readded that text again, due to that he was blocked. So, I restored checked version. Please explain me why you reverted my edit.--[[User:Δαβίδ|Δαβίδ]] ([[User talk:Δαβίδ|talk]]) 21:19, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
*Wrong: I did give a reason. What you should have done, rather than continue to edit war, is notify {{U|Dougweller}}, to ask him to take the appropriate action. You've been warned for edit warring on your talk page so why you would continue to do it is a mystery to me. Besides, "removing non related content" is terrifically vague: you don't do that during a deletion discussion. Doug, if you're reading this, feel free to take any appropriate action. This person's counterpart is blocked, so that's alright. Δαβίδ, I am happy you did not revert me: leave it to Dougweller. That one editor is blocked shouldn't give the other an advantage. Let the admin handle it. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 23:06, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
*Oh, Doug, something needs to be done about [[User:Vahram Mekhitarian/Armenian Eternity sign]], I suppose... [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 23:07, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

== [[Corn dog]] and the IP ==
[[File:Giuseppe Verdi by Giovanni Boldini.jpg|thumb|upright|right|My uncle composed an opera. He likes spinach also. Giuseppe Verdi, by [[Giovanni Boldini]], 1886 (National Gallery of Modern Art, Rome)]]
Sorry to step on your toes there. I didn't see you'd posted the same thing. Best, [[User:Anna Frodesiak|Anna Frodesiak]] ([[User talk:Anna Frodesiak|talk]]) 00:26, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
*Ha, did you? I didn't notice. Well, your block is as good as mine. But I appreciate that you defer to my age and status, haha. I hope he stops with his "usually"; handing out these little blocks isn't so much fun (and every block below 24 hours is marked down to $2). "My father loves spinach for dinner". (Doing homework with my daughter.) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 00:29, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
::*My aunt is sitting on the bench, reading  a [[novel]]. What would your daughter say about this crazy sentence? ''The product is the garden, and the garden designers attempt to optimize the given general conditions of the soil, location and climate to chose the right plants in coresponding conditions.'' I am not sure this is all that right. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 09:40, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
:Hey, where did that thing go, the article that needs to be taken care of? With a big big gallery? [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 10:22, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
::That's a corn dog with a tail, by the way. {{U|JNW}}, [http://i.imgur.com/XThcMe8.png more internet fame!] [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:36, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
:::Hmmph. You woke me from a midday nap. Corndogs I don't know about; I have been called a horndog. Don't let this latest brush with fame change you. [[User:JNW|JNW]] ([[User talk:JNW|talk]]) 16:54, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

== [[Gardener]] ==

Now look here, a [[Gardener]] is NOT the same thing as  [[Gardening]], so that is why  [[Gardener]] is now a separate article. But there are no interwiki links, like Hovenier - https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hovenier or Jardinier, https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jardinier . Can't fix them myself, it is different now. Help please. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 08:38, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
:{{Done}}. [[User:Mandarax|<span style="color:green">M<small>AN</small>d<small>ARAX</small></span>]]&nbsp;<span style="color:blue">•</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandarax|<span style="color:#999900"><small>XAЯA</small>b<small>ИA</small>M</span>]] 09:18, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
::*Thanks, Mandarax! [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 09:32, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

== 3 October in Leiden ==
[[File:Klanten bij een haringkar.jpg|thumb|280px |left|Dedicated Dutch Herring-Eaters]]
[[File:DutchFood Herring.JPG|thumb|upright|Dutch Herring]]
[[File:Zure Haring.jpeg|thumb| right|Dutch Herring]]
[[File:Haring met ui.jpg|thumb| center|Dutch Herring]]
[[File:Broodje Haring.jpeg|thumb| left|Dutch Herring]]

Hi. I don't suppose you (or a suitable talk page stalker) could quickly check [[Template:Did you know nominations/3 October Festival|this DYK]]. I'm taking part in it (my friend's cousin lives in Leiden so he's pulled some strings) but I had no idea it was notable enough for an article, otherwise I'd have created it weeks ago rather than leave it until the last minute to hit the main page on the right date. There's been an unreferenced start-class version on the Dutch Wikipedia since 2009, so I thought we ought to have one. [[User:Ritchie333|<span style="color:#7F007F;">'''Ritchie333'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F;">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F;">(cont)</sup>]]  10:21, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

[[User:Takeaway]] could be the person to help with the pictures, if you don't find these enough. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 13:06, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
*Excellent! I have done a thing or two in Leiden myself (he spoke roundaboutly) and it's a great little city. Thanks, [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 14:14, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
::*And what kind of herring did you had, from the above [[herring]] [[collection]]?
I will now add one of them I think is right. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 14:29, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
:::*Thank you, Hafspajen, for tempting this particular talk page stalker into going out and buying the ingredients for a proper [[Fischbrötchen]]. :) [[User:De728631|De728631]] ([[User talk:De728631|talk]]) 16:11, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
::::*Yeah, this is making me hungry as well. But I'd go easy on the onions--real easy. A note on the pic I just removed from the article: the ''Fischbrötchen'' are on a Kaiser roll, or something like it, a tougher kind of bread than the very soft Dutch white bread. De, bist du ein Fischkopf?? [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:15, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
:::::*Fischkopf? See my userboxen. ;) [[User:De728631|De728631]] ([[User talk:De728631|talk]]) 17:36, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
::*Ah, Fischbrötchen.... [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 16:28, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
:::*Hey Ritchie, I won't be there--it's kind of a long plane ride from Alabama for a show or two, even if a free sandwich is thrown in. Break a leg! :) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 17:18, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
::::I was hoping once I had some herring, somebody could direct me to a nearby forest so I could attempt to cut down its mightiest tree with said fish. [[User:Ritchie333|<span style="color:#7F007F;">'''Ritchie333'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F;">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F;">(cont)</sup>]]  18:38, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
:::::I made some tweaks. I also FB'ed my friend Nils, who now lives in Amsterdam, and gave him your schedule. He's a psychobilly-looking black-clad redhead, totally rock and roll, and a terrific guy. He used to alternate between the WW and Plato; if you're familiar with Leiden, you know what I'm talking about. DYK that Leidenaren don't pronounce the "d"? Not [ˈlɛi̯.də(n)] but [ˈlɛi̯.ə(n)]. And for emphasis, say "joh" at the end of a statement, or use as an ejaculation. Joh! (More topical than "reeds", though you should try that out as well; anyone who knows [[Sjef van Oekel]] will appreciate it. Nils will know.) [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 18:47, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
::::::That's great. My Dutch is limited to "''Godedag hoe get het mit je''" and "''een bier dankje''" but I'm sure it'll be a fun time. Thanks for your help with the article too. [[User:Ritchie333|<span style="color:#7F007F;">'''Ritchie333'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F;">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F;">(cont)</sup>]]  19:24, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Ha, you'll go far enough with that. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 22:49, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

== Lihaas ==

Can you take a look at [[User:Lihaas]]?  In the past few days he has made two terrible CSD errors, (nominating [[Gujba college massacre]] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gujba_college_massacre&diff=575000514&oldid=574999730] and [[2013 Mumbai building collapse]] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2013_Mumbai_building_collapse&diff=next&oldid=575001670]).  He has since brought those to AfD, improperly bringing Gujba college massacre to AfD while it was on the main page and not notifying either of the authors.  He restored the AfD tag for the massacre article after I closed the discussion.&nbsp;[[User:Ryan Vesey|'''''Ryan''''']]&nbsp;[[User talk:Ryan Vesey|'''''Vesey''''']] 22:08, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
*Right. Thanks. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 23:04, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

== A tricky question ==

In other languages exist when editing any amount of ''Speciale tekens'' (this one on the Dutch wiki)to insert into the artic le. . It makes life certainly easyer, I say. Why don't we have those?  We have only <ref></ref> , Sign your posts on talk pages: [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) ~, and this ones,   – — ° ″ ′ ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥ ± − × ÷ ← → · §. That is all. on the swedish wiki lokoks like this<nowiki> #REDIRECT [[]] [[File:| thumb|]] [[Categories:]] <ref></ref> <ref name=""></ref> <references/> {{byt:referenser}} {{byt:rel|}} <code></code> <sup></sup> {{mall|}} : | [] [[]] [[|]] {{}} ~ [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 16:11, 2 October 2013 (UTC) &nbsp; <nowiki></nowiki> <!-- -->  <includeonly></includeonly> <noinclude></noinclude> [[Wikipedia:]] [[WP:]] [[User:]] [[User talk:]] </nowiki>and so on,. Just by clicking on them they fly into the edit, very nice. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 16:11, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
*That list of symbols you gave, for me that's part of the first category ("Insert") of a pull-down menu. Other options include Symbols, Latin, Greek, Cyrillic--all your Swedish characters are included in the "Latin" section. Whether or not you have that menu may depend on certain settings that I don't understand, but {{U|Writ Keeper}} or {{U|Bbb23}} or {{U|Mandarax}} probably do. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:30, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
:*I can't speak for my colleagues, but I have no idea how any of that works. I'll resist the obvious pun. Looks like it's been resolved (below).--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 23:55, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
*Try to pull. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 16:32, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
:{{ec}}I'm not sure which symbols or alternate characters you would like to have, and I don't know which skin you are using. If you're using Vector, which is now the default, it's mostly done by pull-down menus. I'm still using Monobook, and in that there is a box under the input box with a downward pointing arrow. Its options go Insert - Wiki markup - Symbols - Latin - Greek - Cyrillic - Hebrew ... etc. Latin gives me the alt. chars. for the languages I usually use, Wiki Markup would be the things you refer to ... ? [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 16:33, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
::Warrington, check under "Preferences-->Appearances" (or the Swedish equivalent) to see what you have. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 16:40, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
::*Oh, I think I found them. Very good. [[User:Hafspajen|Hafspajen]] ([[User talk:Hafspajen|talk]]) 16:45, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
:::*Ha, this reminded me of being in a German internet cafe some time ago--2007 I think it was, for the anniversary of [[Elizabeth of Hungary]] (I have to do something about that name)--trying to figure out this keyboard with all of its diacritical marks. Took me forever to type out an email message. Let's forget diacritics and do everything from context. I mean, seriously, you Swedes with your alternating values for "k", it's totally unfriendly. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 04:37, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

== Can you take a look at... ==

the article [[Wallack's Theatre]]? It was created and written by [[User:Vzeebjtf]], who basically won't allow anyone else (especially me) to edit it.  I have no objection to editors taking up enlightened [[User:Beyond My Ken/thoughts#Stewardship|stewardship]] of their work, but in this case it's hurting the article.  For instance, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wallack%27s_Theatre&oldid=575502090 this] is his preferred layout for the top of the article, with three images in a line which squish the text of the lede to the left in an unpleasant and difficult-to-read way.  In the same edit in which he reverted [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wallack%27s_Theatre&oldid=575523505 my adjustment to the layout], he also restored such gems of writing as the use of "and/or" in the lede sentence.<p>There are other problems with the article (it once had lots and lots of quoted text, and there's still quite a bit of it, but that was reduced after he ignored me but took heed of Moonriddengirl's [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wallack%27s_Theatre&diff=568936071&oldid=568874000 tagging it as overquoted]), but the layout is the worst of it.  I'm not sure what happened between this editor and myself, I recall helping him in the past, but must have pissed him off in some way.  Now he's become an antagonist reminiscent of the Monty Python "[[Argument Clinic]]" sketch: whatever I do or say, he automatically negates it.<p>Anyway, if you could have a word with him about the squishing layout, I'd appreciate it. Thanks, [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 02:28, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
:The individual who wrote the above is a damned liar. [[User:Vzeebjtf|Vzeebjtf]] ([[User talk:Vzeebjtf|talk]]) 03:25, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
::Eh, BMK may be a lot of things, including an unabashed lover of musical comedy and a worthy verbal sparring partner, but "damned liar"? Come on. Also, personal attack and all that--please don't do that on my talk page, which is a happy place. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 03:39, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
:::(ec) The aformentioned [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ABeyond_My_Ken&diff=529868535&oldid=529860771 help], on my talk page, December 26, 2012. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 03:41, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
:::[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Beyond_My_Ken&oldid=529868535#File:Wallack.27s_Theatre_.28right.29_and_New_Grand_Hotel.2C_New_York.2C_1910_crop.jpg This shows it better.] [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 03:44, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
:::Yes, damned liar. [[User:Vzeebjtf|Vzeebjtf]] ([[User talk:Vzeebjtf|talk]]) 03:47, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
::::Well, that article layout leaves something to be desired, even without our MOS. And "and/or" shouldn't be used, and the way it's used here is distracting, since, I cite [[Logical disjunction]], "in ordinary language "or" can mean inclusive or exclusive or". The referencing system is something else altogether; I've not seen that particular system used anywhere else on Wikipedia, but we don't dictate it. I can't say it's helpful. Now, Vzeebjtf, I ''strongly'' encourage you to remember that this is a collaborative project and that your blanket revert is not only unhelpful (the article can do with improvement; it's hard to read and the lead is very unsatisfactory, for instance) but also uncollegial, and I remind you again that "damned liar" is a clear-cut personal attack; I'll put a template on your talk page saying so, since apparently it didn't come across the first time I said it. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies#top|talk]]) 04:14, 3 October 2013 (UTC)