Talk:Lifehouse (band)

Begin

This article is one part of the old Lifehouse article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JamesHoadley (talk • contribs) 00:57, 18 October 2004 (UTC)

What do you mean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.117.29.208 (talk) 02:03, 1 January 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I started this page ages ago, and previously it was lumped in with an article about Lifehouse the album by The Who. I was just trying to notify people. Probably not necessary. JamesHoadley 10:42, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Band Name

I belive the name came from the aborted Who album of the same name. Shouldn't this be sourced and mentioned? -24.149.203.34 (talk) 13:02, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

It didn't. Check out the interview with Rick at http://www.popentertainment.com/lifehouse.htm, which addresses this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.6.130.51 (talk) 20:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

While that does indicate a surprising ignorance of a seminal moment in the history of a band agreed to be one of the most influential rock bands of all time (Lifehouse included most of the legendary songs that later appeared on Who's Next), it does not excuse not mentioning it, given that The Who and their albums are far more well known, and far more likely to be a search term, than this minor band. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.41.63.135 (talk) 19:39, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Christian rock?

I have to put my input on the whole christian rock thing. By admission, Lifehouse as a group are not a "christian band." But on that same token you cant look at songs like "Everything" and dismiss it as a regular secular song. The bottom line is that Jason is a christian. He does ALL the songwriting in the band. so his music will be interpreted as such. But they suffer from what i call Creed syndrome. Bands like creed, POD, Evanescence, and lifehouse are stuck in this rut of being lables a christian band. I think POD actually is though. i could be wrong. but lets face it. when you label yourself as a christian band but youre trying to get yourself on top 40 stations, thats never gonna work. Jesus doesnt pay the rent ya know? Jason's influence will not leave the band. some songs will have that double entandra. so in conclusion. Lifehouse is not a christian band. but if i feel like worshipping to "hanging by a moment." or you feel like worshipping to "learn you inside out." thats everyones own opinion. In closing, Lifehouse is the most underrated band in human history. i am their biggest fan. i have a lifehouse tattoo to prove it. if anyone wants to further this discussion you can reach me on myspace.com/pasmant . or ncwthedeceiver66@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.78.214.253 (talk) 02:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Lifehouse has siad many time that they aren't a Christian band. Rather, two of the three members are Christian. I'd advise updating that. :) --Josh 20:10, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I think that Lifehouse is a Christian Rock Group because some of the members are Christians. Now, If the group is trying to say that they don't want the music group to be called a "Christian" group, that's something different. But, if the members want to be recognized as people who are "Christian", then that's what the group is trying to say. I agree with second most of all. I think that the positive message that Christian music has should be spread out to the secular world. Positive message is what makes the person better. I'm a Christian, and I agree if the group is was trying to say that they want to be known as singers that are Christians, but they want the band name "Lifehouse" to be known as secular/christian group, but a messenger to the secular people with positive messages. I like Lifehouse and Switchfoot, and guess what? They are both Christian groups spreading positive messages to the rest of the people. I'm behind them all the way. --(unsigned, 66.110.242.4)

I'm not entirely sure what your point is. Yes, they (two of them anyway) are Christains, and yes, they acknowledge it. But they're not all Christians, and they're making secular music. I'd say it falls under a secular group. There probably should be a mention of the members Christianity somewhere though. --Josh 20:10, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I was pretty uncomfortable with the label, even though I know next to nothing about the band, but I left the change in anyway. I think unless the band say "We are a Christian Rock group" then it should just be "... are a rock group" rather than "...are a Christian Rock group". It says later in the sentence that they have a following amongst Christians, so that's enough.

I get the feeling that they are spiritual but just make rock music, will tell people they're Christians but don't openly sing about Christian topics much (if at all), so they shouldn't be labelled as Christian Rock. Josh if you're comfortable with your assessment of their music, just delete the word "Christian" in front of rock group. JamesHoadley 10:42, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Thats about right James. I just wanted to see if anybody had any big reason for leaving Christian in there.. but it doesn't seem like it. I've went ahead updated that section, if anybody has any complaints.. discuss it here I guess. --Josh 19:26, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

You guys are mistaking Lifehouse and Creed. Creed weren't a "Christian" band because Scott Stapp was the only Christian, despite writing the majority of the lyrics, though wasn't the centre of the band. Lifehouse, however, are a Christian band that are lead by the key writer who is the centre of the band. Plus, that chat dialoge is made up, since it's in almost direct contrast to many of the band's own information on blogs and such (which can all be found on lifehousemusic.com or at their myspace). I say it be kept as Christian Rock group. I mean, after all, we're not saying that they're a worship group or anything. Lincalinca 13:43, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure on their status on being a Christian rock band, however Jesusfreakhideout.com has Lifehouse's cds reviewed. http://www.jesusfreakhideout.com/cdreviews/archive.asp#l I'm not sure how much you would take from this site however. Casey14 17:48, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

They're not a christian band. if they were, they'd be signed to a christian music lable, every song would contain the word "Lord" in it and it wouldnt be playing on all the "hit music stations" accross the country. The more people make the claim of them being a christian band, the more annoyed they will be. so just chalk it up as a secular band with some christians members who sometimes makes christian inspired music, just like creed or any other artist who makes a couple spiritual inspired songs here and there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.25.88.213 (talk) 11:10, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Is any of what you said true about Christian bands true? Almost no Christian rock songs contain the word "Lord".Deiguitar (talk) 21:31, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

UnsignedIP said "They're not a christian band. if they were, they'd be signed to a christian music lable, every song would contain the word "Lord" in it and it wouldnt be playing on all the "hit music stations" accross the country." Unsigned IP doesn't know what he's talking about. Their are many Christian bands that either aren't signed to a Christian Label, who don't contain the word 'Lord' in every song and are or have been played on "hit music stations" accross the country. Ever heard of "Six Pence None the Richer", MercyMe, Family Force 5, Jars of Clay, Amy Grant, Stryper, Kirk Franklin and many more. And secular artists who are crossing over to Christian popularity like: Brian Litrell, Randy Travis, Martina McBride and many others. J. D. Hunt (talk) 20:01, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Lets get something straight, the defenition of "Christian music" simply means music with Christian related themes and/or lyrics. Now wether you're Christian, agnostic or whatever, if you hear lifehouse and you know atleast a tiny bit about christianity you'll know SOME of their lyrics and themes are christian baised. Now with that said, does that mean we should call them a "Christian band"? No. We can't because not all the members are christian. They are a band, with some Christians, and some Christian songs. That is all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.120.148.108 (talk) 22:53, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

They're more of a Christian band than not. Christian music doesn't need to call out "Lord" or "God" or "Jesus" in every song. There are entire Christian albums without a single one of those in 10 or 12 songs. Tis true. Lots of those albums are full of some pretty kickin tunes. And in the case of Lifehouse, lots of their songs aren't just "christian inspired music", they're writing specifically with The Bible and Christ in mind. And did you know there's a Christian band or four who play non-Christian music festivals and who open up for non-Christian artists? Yup. BUT in the case of Lifehouse and this article, maybe they shouldn't be called a Christian Band . . . but YES, they do play Christian Rock -- "Broken" is on Christian radio everyday somewhere in America. If the article is ever expanded to talk about personal aspects of the band members' lives, their faithfulness to God and to living a Christian life should definitely be mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chris1emt (talk • contribs) 13:38, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Alleged quote from chat--can't verify

User:201.13.134.86 (article history) removed the category Christian musical group, quite rightly, and added this quote from an online chat at www.teenhollywood.com. I can't verify if this is true, so I've removed it for now. There's nothing unreasonable about it at all, so maybe someone would like to add it back in the future with the proper introduction.

The quote:

<<How do you feel about people refering to your group as a Christian band?"

Rick says First off, we're not a Christian band. Jason back in the day used to lead worship at his church and he comes from that background. For the most part we're definitely not a christian band. We're just a band that tries to make music that is not crap. We get pigeonholed sometimes about being a christian or spiritual or whatever band. But for the most part we try to write the best songs that we can, songs that inspire people. There is a special feeling that people get when they hear a song like that, it is an open form of art, we don't like to be put into a box like that! ----- Lifehosue chat on Wed Dec 21 2005 - TeenHollywood>>>

---

Yes,this is true....

http://www.lifehousefans.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=news;action=display;num=1134337944;start=135

and this...

http://www.lifehousefans.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=news;action=display;num=1138211961

they're not a Christian band.

I know they're not a Christian band, but I find it interesting that they get a LOT of play on 'Christian' and 'positive alternative' radio stations such as AIR ONE. I'm curious. Do they have to pay to get their music played on those stations, or do they just play it because it's positive, or both? Or am I totally off? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.17.194.80 (talk) 07:33, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

You're totally off. Lifehouse started off as a Christian band known as Blyss. The Jason Wade was approached by David Geffen based on the quality of the group, and they changed to Lifehouse, which was a synonym for a church. They continue to gather christian support because their music is predominantly Christian, even though they're not a "christian band", per se. List to the lyrics of their most well known songs like "You and Me" or "Hanging by a Moment" or others like "Everything", "Breathing", "Storm", "Easier to Be" and others, whose lyrics are indicative of Christianity. I suppose without "Breathing", it could be anything, but that is pretty explicit. --lincalinca 08:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Christian?

For some reason, I found Christian rock on the list of genres. I took it off, since Lifehouse has said numerous times that they're not Christian rock. If you have objections, leave them here.67.177.184.125 01:51, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Everything1.jpg

Image:Everything1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 06:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Lifehouse1.jpg

Image:Lifehouse1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:55, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Post grunge?

come on these guys are not post grunge come these guys did not even come out in the 1990's they are not alternative in anyway and the term post grunge should be removed they are just pop rock--Mikmik2953 (talk) 16:54, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

This isn't the first time you've said that. Do you actually know anything about musical genres because it wouldn't appear so. Lifehouse (and The Calling for that matter) are both heavily influenced by Pearl Jam and you can tell that, yes they do have some softer moments which could be described as pop rock but you seem to be forgetting that post-grunge is not as dark and heavy as grunge therefore pop rock is evident on a lot post-grunge bands.--Brickovic (talk) 18:48, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

i am removing the post grunge label from genre they are not a straight post grunge band most of there songs have been light hearted guitar pop numbers and sappy love songs post grunge is rootless grunge and a little lighter than original grunge,post grunge is not the hallmark of there sound maybe a few of there songs maybe but for the most part are not post grunge if you want to add post grunge in some way article be my guest but not in the genre box,post grunge is just rootless grunge it is angst filled lyrics using the loud quite dynamic and the music its self has to sound simlar to grunge, hanging by a moment for example is more hanson than pearl jam and somebody stateing they were influeneced by a grunge band does not mean they are post grunge they have to meet other earmarks to be post grunge,and you seem not to know anything about genres you are tagging everyband that came out after 1992 as post grunge the name does not mean the way it sounds it does not mean any rock band that came out after 1992,i mean you probaly got hanson down as post grunge,and further more people are confusing genre and style the box states genre not style,--Wikiscribe (talk) 18:49, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Paul Zeppezaur

Does anyone know if Paul Zeppezaur really was a member of Lifehouse? His name was added to the Former Member's list but a google and yahoo search for this name returned zero results. Chuggernaut (talk) 02:56, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Removed Paul Zeppezaur from former members because the info could not be verified. For any objections, please leave them here. Chuggernaut (talk) 07:19, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

no, your correct. he was never a member of lifehouse or affiliated with them in any way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.78.214.253 (talk) 10:10, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Stephen Buchholz

Does anyone know if Stephen Buchholz really was a member of Lifehouse? His name was added to the Former Member's list but a google search for ("Stephen Buchholz" lifehouse) only returned the Lifehouse page in wikipedia.

I'm removing his name from the former member's list because of absence of reference. Please leave any objections here. Chuggernaut (talk) 08:39, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Ben Carey

There is a dispute as to whether Ben Carey is a member of the band. I don't have a horse in this race (never even heard of the band before today), but several sources indicate Carey was a band member. For example this AP photo from Jan 2009. On the other hand the official website doesn't mention him; [1] but their myspace page does [2]. I suggest until their official website is updated, the info not be added. Rd232 ^talk 21:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

My involvment with this involves watching an editor and two sockpuppets trying to block the addition of Carey. I became more involved yesterday, having a new sock blocked and adding in Carey with a cite to an interview with the band. Other than that, I do not know of the band or Carey. However, a glance at the Q&As on the band's website and the cites indicate that this was a topic of some interest. Carey apparently had toured with the band previously and, in several reliable sources, including one interviewing the band, Carey was mentioned as the "newest member" of the band. The band info on their site does not list Carey as a member or mention his past involvment. Unless this portion of their site is pittifully out of date, I can only conclude that Carey is not currently a member of the band, though apparently was considered a member by the band at some point in 2008. We can only write what we can cite, so I would suggest something along the following lines: do not include Carey in any of the lists of the band's members. Add a sentence along the lines of "Though Ben Carey was identified as the band's 'newest member',[3][4][5] he is not included in their current roster.[6]" - SummerPhD (talk) 15:51, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

That sounds like a good suggestion, based on the sources that have come to light. SHEFFIELDSTEEL^TALK 17:25, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Given the lack of any arguments to the contrary, I've added it to the article. - SummerPhD (talk) 15:11, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Anybody who is a fan of the band knows that Ben is an official mamber. and as far as "Unless this portion of their site is pittifully out of date" goes. The site IS really out of date. Their bassist, just two days ago, addressed the issue saying "As far as the website goes, we are happy to have some new people working on it so a new layout is in the works for the future. Sorry it hasn't been so up-to-date, but we've been studio rats. " You don't include a touring guitarist in a music video either. And Ben was in their most recent video. he is also listed on their offical Myspace as being an official member. Fact is, he is a member. I have spoken to the Bassist and Singer of the band on multiple occasions where they say he is official. The "official" website is out of date and practically broken. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.78.214.253 (talk) 10:02, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

What "anybody who is a fan" knows is irrelevant. What your cousin's next-door-neighbor's friend's sister-in-law heard from the guy who did the artwork for the liner notes to their last album is also irrelevant. We need something verifiable in reliable sources. Thanks. - SummerPhD (talk) 20:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Heres your undeniable proof. http://lifehousemusic.com/blog/default.aspx .Debate over —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.78.214.253 (talk) 06:55, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, that at least explains the edit summary claims that there site has been hacked. We have another sockpuppetry case working through the system right now... - SummerPhD (talk) 17:03, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Pardon me for being skeptical. We are asked to accept that the official website has been hacked, and offered a blog as proof. I'd like to see some confirmation from a non-primary source. SHEFFIELDSTEEL^TALK 17:47, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I am not claiming the website has been hacked. It seems to be the new defense to the claim that Ben Carey is not a member of the band. We have independent newspaper accounts that state he is. The blog post cited above is what the editors (or one editor + socks) claim is the result of hacking. The blog posting, by the band on their own website, supports the claim that Carey is a member of the band. The only evidence (such as it is) that Carey is not a member of the band is the thin nature of the evidence saying he is a member and several editors (or one editor and multiple socks) claiming he is not a member (and claiming the site has been hacked). - SummerPhD (talk) 20:08, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Halfway Gone

It's on YouTube now and some of the fan sites have the MP3 up. I'm sure this isn't quite legal so we shouldn't be posting about it on Wiki? 63.195.123.31 (talk) 00:39, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Bliss

I am surprised this page discusses nothing about the band before it was renamed lifehouse Before it was lifehouse, it was named Bliss and it had originally played on the christian circuit. I eventually plan on adding this information to this page, I am trying to find more authoritative sources

Here are some good and not so good sources so far:

• http://artists.letssingit.com/lifehouse-bwdf7/news/
• http://www.freewebs.com/lifehouseblyss/

any help would be greatly appreciated Oldag07 (talk) 03:09, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

When Fallen Angels Fly

Where is the source for this (I assume the 6th album title?) It is nowhere on their websites or social media outlets. Much like the Gold Record for Smoke & Mirrors, I'd like it to be true, but no source. Electricbassguy (talk) 06:14, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Lifehouse (band). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080628143021/http://www.etonline.com:80/news/2008/04/61091/index.html to http://www.etonline.com/news/2008/04/61091/index.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070928024548/http://www.strippedmusic.com/arch_lifehouse.html to http://www.strippedmusic.com/arch_lifehouse.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 05:59, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Lifehouse (band). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090304120640/http://longboredsurfer.com/charts.php?year=2001 to http://longboredsurfer.com/charts.php?year=2001
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110807140245/http://www.lifehousemusic.com/blog/default.aspx?nid=21119 to http://www.lifehousemusic.com/blog/default.aspx?nid=21119
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110716080149/http://www.lifehousemusic.com/news/default.aspx?nid=23653 to http://www.lifehousemusic.com/news/default.aspx?nid=23653

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:02, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 6 external links on Lifehouse (band). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110807135338/http://www.lifehousemusic.com/discography/ to http://www.lifehousemusic.com/discography/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070620213514/http://www.lifehousemusic.com/news/default.aspx/nid/9368 to http://www.lifehousemusic.com/news/default.aspx/nid/9368
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070410024258/http://www.lifehousemusic.com/news/default.aspx/nid/11170 to http://www.lifehousemusic.com/news/default.aspx/nid/11170
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110716080702/http://www.lifehousemusic.com/news/default.aspx/nid/15400 to http://www.lifehousemusic.com/news/default.aspx/nid/15400
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110716080728/http://www.lifehousemusic.com/news/default.aspx?nid=17958 to http://www.lifehousemusic.com/news/default.aspx?nid=17958
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110716080804/http://www.lifehousemusic.com/news/default.aspx/nid/16968 to http://www.lifehousemusic.com/news/default.aspx/nid/16968

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:51, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Needs more and better sources

There is some unsourced material in the article. Also, better sources are needed, as some material is sourced to the band's website and other unreliable sources. I have added tags. SunCrow (talk) 10:59, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Broken Up/Hiatus

"According to Reddit" meaning one comment on r/Lifehouse which was stolen by User:AWPerative in 2020.... they were? But maybe just a hiatus. JesseMilz (talk) 07:02, 4 March 2024 (UTC)