User talk:Nikkimaria

Books & Bytes – Issue 51

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 51, May – June 2022

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• Feedback requested on this newsletter
• 1Lib1Ref May 2022

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --16:45, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Poke

Hey Nikki ... I think everything at WP:FASA has "matured", for whenever you have a chance to look. Bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:55, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

CMRI

I've been doing some heavy editing recently of the CMRI page. I see you've been undoing some of my work, so I'd like to see your thoughts on the direction of the changes. I don't want to waste my time if my work is just going to be undone. It looks like someone put some flags on the overall CMRI article, and they weren't specific so I have no idea where they saw the bigger issues. I'm curious what secondary sources would be acceptable to you, since just about everyone on the group is a primary source, so it would be nearly impossible to make a wiki page without using some primary sources. G4wa5r4gasag (talk) 04:03, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi G4wa5r4gasag, generally speaking we want to keep Wikipedia articles based primarily on reliable independent secondary sources. I'd suggest in this case that strength of sourcing is particularly important for material that is potentially contentious, such as the Criticisms section, or involving analysis or synthesis, such as the sections on changes in the post-Schuckardt period. I'd also suggest that in the absence of secondary sourcing calling out specific individuals (particularly ones still living) should be avoided. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:17, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Biographies of living persons are allowed and I've tried to give minimal information on living persons and their relationship to the group, such as noting that they are a priest in the group. I'll pause my edits and allow you or anyone else to take a fresh look and delete or flag anything in particular that needs sourcing. There are pretty good sources for the time period of 1967 to 1989 (I've requested numerous newspaper articles that I haven't yet posted, but this should be possible soon), but then much of the source material drops off after 1989. Something I think is very important to keep are the claims of credible sexual abuse of the priests that worked with CMRI in the beginning. I have never seen someone connect these credibly accused priests to the CMRI group specifically, and I think it's very important information that should be highlighted. CMRI operated as an underground cult in the early 1970s, and these priests have been identified through independent media. As for criticisms, I'm fine if someone feels they are not sourced enough and should be removed. I've tried to remove opinions without sources, but please take a look and delete anything you think shouldn't be in the article. Much of the basic biographical material since 1989 comes from CMRI sources or obituaries. G4wa5r4gasag (talk) 23:11, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Biographies of living persons are allowed, but there are very stringent requirements as to their content and sourcing, including around accusations of crimes. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:07, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Bill Reinhardt

You could have discussed with me your intent to remove the Further Reading section of the article I created on Bill Reinhardt that had 14 references. I spent two years researching him, did numerous interviews and spent hundreds of dollars at universities on research. Imprudent and presumptuous of you.

Chris Kaufmann Cnkaufmann (talk) 11:12, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi Cnkaufmann, generally speaking a Further reading section in a Wikipedia article is intended to point to publications containing more detail about the article subject - the entries that were included in that article generally did not do that. WP:Further reading has some more information that may be helpful (see in particular the Considerations section). 22:12, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Possible copyright issue in Henry Sherwood article?

Hi Nikkimaria, there's a possible copyright issue on the Henry Sherwood page. I tried to report it on the Wikipedia:Copyright problems, but couldn't figure out how to code it. In the "References" section it says: "Mayors of Toronto, Volume 1, 1834 – 1899 by Victor Loring Russell ©1982 Published by: The Boston Mills Press Used with permission". Is "used by permission" sufficient to satisfy copyright concerns? Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 01:24, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi Mr Serjeant Buzfuz, typically no - usually when people say that they mean someone has allowed the content to be used for Wikipedia purposes rather than released under a free license, and Wikipedia-use-only permissions are not considered compatible. Do you know which portion(s) of the article come from that source? 01:28, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, that's what I thought. I've not seen a copy of the book so I don't know to what extent it's used in the article. I may see if I can track it down for a comparison. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 13:14, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Tracked down the book on Internet Archive and substituted proper inline cites; deleted weird "used by permission". Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 00:42, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

'George Relph' article

Hi,

Looking over this article last night, I noticed you had removed the section 'Who's Who', listing the actor's theatre credits. You gave 'cull' as your reason, but with no clue as to why the cull. Is it perhaps to do with copyright? Verbatim text from a copyrighted source? (Albeit 60 years old) I feel this leaves the article somewhat the poorer. For an actor of George Relph's era, theatre was the main medium of expression (you can see by the number of credits). Without his theatre work, I think the article is less representative of him. It's like having an article about Madonna leaving out her music, but listing only her films. Would there be a way please, that some or all of the 'Who's Who' C.V. could go back - is there a way of circumventing the copyright issue (presuming that is why it was removed)? Perhaps rephrasing the text?

Beryl reid fan (talk) 13:20, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi Beryl reid fan, rephrasing some of the text could work. Unfortunately a 1960 work is unlikely to be out of copyright, particularly since there still seems to be an entry for Relph in the modern edition (although I don't have access to compare the text at the moment). Nikkimaria (talk) 13:48, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

O.K. thanks Nikkimaria, I'll take a look at doing that. Add it to the list, anyway. Cheers. Beryl reid fan (talk) 14:05, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

drumstep article

Hiya,

I'm coming from the Drumstep page, and it looks like my yesterday contribution has been deleted (not everything but a big part is missing)

I don't know if it's because of the sources I use, but as a drumstep enjoyer myself, i make sur everything I say is accurate.

Thank you anyway for helping spreading the knowledge in electronic music.

Regards

Vincent-vst (talk) 15:28, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi Vincent-vst, yes, unfortunately wikis aren't considered reliable for use in citations, and we need citations rather than personal experience to back up content. I'd suggest having a read through WP:Reliable sources to help guide you in locating sources to expand the article. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:51, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: July 2022

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Library/Coordinators/Signup

Is the Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library/Coordinators/Signup page still active? There are a few old unanswered requests there.

The page m:The Wikipedia Library/Coordinators says that it's "outdated" at the top, which is relatively clearer, but it still has "signup" link.

People sometimes ask me whether they can apply to be coördinators, and I'm not sure what to respond. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 07:24, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

It's not currently active. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:26, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Palladian architecture

August songs

Thank you and all who helped including Johnbod, KJP1, Ceoil, Tryptofish, for being instrumental in Palladian architecture survive FAR, mostly written by Giano and nominated by Bishonen in 2004. It's a pleasure to see it on the Main page today. More detail later, you have to start somewhere. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:49, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Seeking advice (again)

Good afternoon, Nikki. May I once more trouble you for your opinion? I'd like to use this image (top one), and I'm hoping it is OK, being only words on book spines. Grateful for your guidance. Tim riley talk 14:04, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi Tim, I'd anticipate you'd be fine with uploading that image locally as {{PD-simple}}. I'd be less confident in hosting it at Commons - it would probably be fine, but the UK has a lower threshold of originality. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:22, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Splendid! Thank you so much, Nikkimaria (for about the hundredth time)! Tim riley talk 17:23, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Help with editing

Hi, I have seen that you have edited missing persons lists. I could use some help adding entries to lists, do you think that you could help me out? Davidgoodheart (talk) 21:44, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

I don't think I'm best suited to that particular task, sorry. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:44, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Re: Joan Gadsdon

Thanks for your edits. They make good sense. Appropriate changes made to text and references. Vortexionio (talk) 18:52, 16 August 2022 (UTC).

King Kong vs. Godzilla/GA1

Nikki, if you have a moment, I would like to get another opinion on the fair use images in King Kong vs. Godzilla. I'm doing the GA review and to me they seem excessive -- I've seen articles with three justified fair use images, but I don't think these pass muster. The editor who added them is arguing they are justified. Do you have time to take a look and comment at the GAN? Thanks. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:50, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

FAC Mentor Request

Your name was listed at Wikipedia:Mentoring for FAC so I wanted to ask about Leafpad, an article that was recently rewritten/expanded and promoted to GA that I would like to get to FA status. The problem is I have zero experience with FA so I wanted to ask for your input before moving forward with that process. Any help or advice that you can provide would be greatly appreciated, as I am very much out of my comfort zone with the whole FA process, which seems daunting and honestly intimidating. - Aoidh (talk) 21:26, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi Aoidh, my number one piece of advice for an article like this one would be to get someone who's a subject-matter expert to read through, and also get someone who has no background on the subject at all. The former will catch technical errors and missing content; the latter will catch jargon and areas that need additional explanation. A peer review advertised to relevant WikiProjects and flagged as FAC preparation might be a good way to get both.

Some more specific comments on the article as it stands:

• If there's any way to avoid having one-paragraph sections, that would be ideal. Are there more reviews available? Can more context be added for non-expert readers?
• Make sure you can articulate in your own mind how references should be formatted, and ensure all references match that target format. For example, footnote 9 does not include a work parameter, but most other web sources do - is there a reason? Footnotes 21 and 22 are both book sources but only one has a publisher listed - why?
• For each source included, make sure that if it's questioned you'd be able to answer what makes it a reliable source.
• Given the short overall length of the article, I'd suggest not repeating links. I'd also suggest having a scan of other potential style issues - for example in the lead you have "undo/redo" but then in text "Undo/Redo" capitalized. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:57, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your advice, I'll get on those and continue working on the article. One question about the single paragraph sections, would the Leafpad#Forks subsection be problematic for having only one paragraph, or is that more of a thing for the higher sections (I don't know how to word it, the sections with two equals signs rather than three)? - Aoidh (talk) 00:12, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

It's less of an issue for subsections, but if there's a way to avoid it I'd say do so. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:11, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Inquiry on image review

Hey Nikkimaria, hope you are well, and sorry to bother you. I've been trying my hand at doing image reviews of FACs within familiar territories (music, film, pop culture). I was wondering if I could get your perspective, if I am doing it appropriately or if I'm being too "strict". It's more of a concern on ALT text over licensing (which I think is minor) and I understand ALT text is not necessarily a requirement. So I don't want to come off as too stringent for something that is reasonable to begin with. Hoping to get your advice and ways to improve after reading your tips ;) Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Happier Than Ever: A Love Letter to Los Angeles/archive1] -- Pseud 14 (talk) 14:42, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi Pseud 14, I wouldn't push too hard for more detail. You generally want alts to be kept short to only convey the key information that is missed by not seeing the image. On the other hand, you might want to push a bit more at File:Patrick_Osborne.jpg: the default is to AGF on own-work claims, but that uploader has had a lot of own-work-claimed images deleted. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:45, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification Nikkimaria. These suggestions on the images have been helpful. Lastly, I take that using name of the subject alone that is depicted in the image is an acceptable ALT text? Or should it at least convey a little information ie “subject talking to a microphone”? Pseud 14 (talk) 00:13, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

It depends on the context. See the example at Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility/Alternative_text_for_images#Importance_of_context: it suggests that in a list of military leaders "Napoleon Bonaparte" would be an appropriate alt for an image of Napoleon, whereas in his own article more description is warranted. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:21, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

MOS:GEOLINK

Hello again Nikkimaria! Thank you for correcting my infobox for the page Sherwood Battle Brockwell in regards to the Template:Infobox person, and MOS:GEOLINK in regards to the linking of the state of birth, in this case which is North Carolina. If you don't mind, I do want to ask just one more question about this. MOS:GEOLINK states in regards to the linking of states that "For geographic places specified with the name of the larger territorial unit following a comma, generally do not link the larger unit." soon after giving the example of [Buffalo, New York|Buffalo] (not giving New York its own link). My question is, when would you not link the larger state? New York makes sense as not to link with it being a famous state, but North Carolina, which isn't a hugely notable state outside of the US, is also not linked? I'm just asking this for future reference which states are considered not notable enough to be linked, and which states are notable enough and should not be linked- not to argue over whether North Carolina should be linked in the Sherwood Battle Brockwell article or not, because if it's the standard it's the standard. I hope this question makes sense, and thank you for your help! Cheers Johnson524 (Talk!) 13:50, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi Johnson524, I would almost never link the larger state, for a couple of reasons. First off, [[Town]], [[State]] in read mode is nearly indistinguishable from [[Town, State]] (which is also a really common titling format for US places) - compare MOS:SOB. Second, in this context we already have a link to the most specific target (the town) to contextualize for the reader. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:32, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Ok, thank you for the quick and helpful feedback! Johnson524 (Talk!) 03:05, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXCVII, August 2022

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on the Falklands War

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 08:59, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Image question at Talk:Mariam Soulakiotis/GA1

Nikki, can I bother you for another image question? The three images of Soulakiotis in Mariam Soulakiotis are AP photos -- e.g. see the credit here. The publications used as sources are all Australian and they are now PD in Australia. We've found a UK republication, more than 30 days later, here, but so far no US republication despite searching newspapers.com; however, as an AP photo it seems quite possible it did get republished in the US. I'm trying to figure out how to navigate the Hirtle chart for this. It seems to me that if there's no republication in the US within 30 days, we're in the 1927-1977 row for published abroad and not PD in Australia on 1/1/96, which means it is under copyright in the US. The nominator suggests that as an AP picture it's reasonable to assume republication in the US, and it's then PD in the US if copyright was not renewed. I have not looked to see if copyright was renewed in that case but can figure that if you say it's the appropriate path to go down. Unless AP systematically renewed every photo they ever took I would imagine it was not renewed. If you have time and can comment at the GA review that would be great. Thanks. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:12, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi

Why do you keep editing the Naknak Wikipedia page? Are you a mod or something? TherealGordon94 (talk) 15:06, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi TherealGordon94, the source you are adding is not considered reliable. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:30, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Do you know anything about this topic? How did you even find this page? TherealGordon94 (talk) 13:21, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

I know quite a bit about reliable sourcing, and monitor for additions of unreliable sources like the one you used. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:26, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

How can you have any idea if the source is reliable or not if you dont know anything about the topic? Seriously, can you just stop? You haven't added any information to the article at all, you just keep deleting stuff. TherealGordon94 (talk) 14:03, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Because reliability isn't based on whether claims are true or not - even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Instead we look at a source's editorial oversight, fact-checking, author expertise, etc. Material lacking citations to reliable sources should not be restored until such a source can be found. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:58, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Reliability isn't based on whether claims are true or not? 😆 You're going to have to explain that one to me. TherealGordon94 (talk) 01:27, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

If you posted something here, it could be true; that doesn't make you a reliable source that we can cite. That's because Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and so is meant to summarize reliable secondary sources on a topic, rather than just what some random person says. Original research on a topic belongs elsewhere. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:09, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Now I get why all my teachers say Wikipedia isn't a reliable resource to cite. Cuz a bunch of poop patrol wanna be mods like you delete and change stuff just to boost up your own account. TherealGordon94 (talk) 13:26, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Adding whatever you want using whatever sources you want makes it less reliable rather than more so. The strength of a well-done Wikipedia article is that it is entirely backed up by reliable sources that can be cited. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:31, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Someone deleted the entire article besides the first paragraph anyway. I'm sure if I try to change it back, he'll cite some dumb rule and you guys will back him up. TherealGordon94 (talk) 13:27, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I hope you feel like this was a job well done. You successfully suppressed information. TherealGordon94 (talk) 14:07, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Wanna be mod TherealGordon94 (talk) 14:08, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Women in Red in September 2022

Women in Red September 2022, Vol 8, Issue 9, Nos 214, 217, 240, 241 Online events: New: Alphabet run: E and F | Women writers and their works Continuing: Climate (year-long initiative) | #1day1woman Request for help: Participate in preparations for our trend-setting contest in November Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

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Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nominations opening soon

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Jim Pappin image

Nikki, another image question if you have a moment. This came up at the GAN for Jim Pappin; the nominator has removed the image but would like another opinion on it. The image is File:Jim Pappin 1973.JPG. The uploader argued that the lack of a visible copyright symbol on the front or back of the photo image (both visible at upload time on eBay) meant that it was published without a copyright notice. I don't think this is sufficient evidence, since we don't know where the photo came from, and appearing on eBay is not publication. Have you run into this situation before? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 09:20, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Mike Christie, none of the eBay links seem to be working for me, but I can speak to this situation generally. We have accepted front/back eBay photos before, but usually the situation is the image is a standalone "publication" of sorts - a publicity package photo, a sports card, that kind of thing. It's not clear to me from the image description that this particular photo falls into that category, so unless there's something more at eBay I would agree with you that we have insufficient evidence for the current tagging. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:57, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll let the nominator know. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:59, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Newspapers.com

Hi, I was sent approval but wasn't sent a user name and password.. Unlike the others you can't access the site in the Wiki library mode. Newspaperarchive.com is OK now in wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org mode.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:02, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

@Dr. Blofeld: If you were sent approval I'd suggest request a password reset using that email in 'Forgot your password'. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:38, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Nice one, thanks Nikkimaria! Hope you're well! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:43, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Consider archiving your talk page. Over 300kb is massive for a talk page! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:15, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Saintmalo.jpg

Nikki, another question if you have a moment, from a GA review for All the Light We Cannot See. One of the images used in that article is File:Saintmalo.jpg which gives a fr-wiki link for the source; that page says it is a photo taken by Antoine DeClerck and uploaded by user Barbet, who is inactive. In a situation like this would you AGF that Barbet has the appropriate permission to assign the license? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:56, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

As it happens I've now failed the GA, but I'm still interested in the answer if you have time to look at it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:11, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Mike, that's a tricky one. You can check userpages for relationships that would support permission or user talk pages for deletion notices that would suggest lack of permission, but of course neither option is available here. You can also use a reverse image search to try to find an earlier publication, which I'm not seeing here. In the absence of any such indications, and with an inactive uploader, an apparently non-famous photographer, and a modern photo, we fall back to AGF. (That being said, since France does not have FoP it does also need a tag for the building). Nikkimaria (talk) 23:24, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks -- that's helpful, as usual. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:14, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: August 2022

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FA Review

Hi, this is Unlimitedlead, and I recently finished up the edits you suggested on Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Prince Octavius of Great Britain/archive1. If you don't mind, could you take another look just to make sure everything is alright and vote on whether you support the promotion or not? Thank you so much for your time. Unlimitedlead (talk) 02:33, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election voting opening soon!

Voting for the upcoming project coordinator election opens in a few hours (00:01 UTC on 15 September) and will last through 23:59 on 28 September. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next coordination year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. Voting is conducted using simple approval voting and questions for the candidates are welcome. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the current coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:27, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Correction to previous election announcement

Just a quick correction to the prior message about the 2022 MILHIST coordinator election! I (Hog Farm) didn't proofread the message well enough and left out a link to the election page itself in this message. The voting will occur here; sorry about the need for a second message and the inadvertent omission from the prior one. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:41, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

File:Pruitt-Igoe-vandalized-windows.jpg

Nikki, I have another image question from a GA review, if you have a moment. File:Pruitt-Igoe-vandalized-windows.jpg comes from a book written under contract to the US government, and the image page asserts that that makes it PD. I recall a long-ago discussion in which a government grant for doing work did not confer PD status on the work, but I can't find anything that addresses the question. Do you know if images in this situation inherit the PD status from the government? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:54, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Mike Christie, is it under a contract or a grant? Copyright_status_of_works_by_the_federal_government_of_the_United_States#Works_produced_by_contractors outlines the details around contracts, but there are a much wider variety of options depending on the specific grant details. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:01, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

The title page of the book seems to indicate that it was under contract. However, it's unlikely that the author of the book actually produced the photograph in question under contract for the government, given that the book was published 20 years after the demolition of the subject. I don't see any indication of the image's copyright status in the book. Ruбlov (talk • contribs) 00:14, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

That's going to be potentially problematic if no more information is available, since it's within a timeframe to end up as an orphan work. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:16, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

I'll go ahead and remove it from the article. Ruбlov (talk • contribs) 00:24, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of Paul Gilley for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Paul Gilley is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Gilley until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

Tom Reedy (talk) 02:29, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Charles Darling

It's one thing if you just don't like them, but removing the wikidata infobox from Charles Darling, 1st Baron Darling as "not a reliable source" makes no sense, for a couple of reasons. One is that the infobox doesn't use data that isn't sourced on Wikidata, it discards anything without a reference. Another is that I went through the Wikidata entry (before adding the infobox) and cited everything there to the authority control databases... I actually only added it because the existing infobox didn't have even the most basic biographical information. The third (and most obvious imo) is the information shown by the wikidata infobox was already (and still is) in the text of the article, cited to other sources....which means it's all cited at least twice, in the article and on Wikidata. It's worth pointing out that infoboxes don't cite their sources anyhow (and are not required or expected to), its supposed to be information cited elsewhere.

The {{Template:Infobox person/Wikidata}} template is used on over 4500 articles, and if you have a problem with it, you need to take that up in some other venue than just removing it from specific articles as 'not reliable'. The template was discussed by the community over five years ago, and the decision then was "the proponents of this template have made a convincing argument for its use over the on-wiki infoboxes".... it's not something I randomly came up with, and there is clearly no widespread consensus to "make it go away", which is what you are essentially claiming by calling it "not a reliable source".

Essentially, you removed information that's already cited both in the article itself, and to different sources on Wikidata, apparently with an automated editing tool, and a "justification" that is nonsensical. The information in the wikidata infobox is not wrong, is cited, and the article is "better" with information like when he lived in the infobox. If you want to fix the existing infobox so that it actually includes his basic biographical data, that is all cited in the article and on Wikidata, then be my guest. Otherwise, I'm going to put back the Wikidata one, as everything it adds is cited to authority control, the exact same sources that are commonly used for basic biographical data on Wikipedia.

Please pay more attention when reverting people with automated tools, actually look at the before and after. Your edit did not improve the article, at all, since you didn't bother to actually fix the infobox you put back... if you had, you would have probably have noticed you were retyping the exact same information you had just removed, and that it is all cited in the article text. Just because you can make the edit with a single click does not mean that it is correct or helpful. Jarnsax (talk) 03:09, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

The template imports data that is sourced on Wikidata, but does not consider the quality of that sourcing. This means that careful (and not automated) evaluation is required to determine whether the importation is appropriate. In this particular case, the data is sourced to thepeerage, which is is deprecated as a source on English Wikipedia. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:15, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for fixing it, that actually makes sense (which the generic edit summary didn't, tbh, it looked like "I don't like it" about the template itself). I was unaware that that specific website wasn't considered reliable, though the info I actually care about (birth, death, etc.) is given other places as well. The 'handcrafted' version is of course much better than the Wikidata one, which I admit is ugly, and I'm definitely not on some mission to convert them all to the WD version. Jarnsax (talk) 03:48, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Glad we were able to sort that out! Nikkimaria (talk) 12:45, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for being so "vehement" about it, but it really did look to me like you were objecting to the use of Wikidata itself, as opposed to having an issue with the sourcing of the actual data moved over. Those are two totally different things, and I misunderstood what you meant by your edit summary and kinda yelled at you for the wrong one of them. FYI, however, the Wikidata version of the template does have a "suppressfields" parameter, that can be used to prevent data from being copied over (and a comment in the wikitext can explain in more detail). I will make a point, in the future, of using it to prevent info sourced only from "thepeerage" from being moved over if I when I add them. Still, the customized one you added is far better. Jarnsax (talk) 18:06, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree - unfortunately another issue with automated data import is that it is not as curated as one might like. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:11, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Maple syrup

By undoing my edits, you are creating citations that are incorrect in other places in the article. My edit adds content and consistency to the article.to the article. Absolutely Certainly (talk) 11:27, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Absolutely Certainly, what I did was combine your duplicate citations and improved the consistency and correctness of the citations you added. We do not need four different references to cover a four-page span of a single book. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:48, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Nikkimaria.

I am glad to see that you did not undo my edit.

Citations 5, 7, 9, and 14 refer to Elsevier's Dictionary of trees, a very well referenced book (over 200 sources are referenced). Citations 6, 8, 10, and 15 refer to the USDA Plants Database that backs up Elsevier (or vice versa) and also provides images of the trees that add to the readers experience, should they choose to follow the links.

My next project is to update all references to North American species of trees in Wikipedia by using these two sources.

Lets collaborate to improve Wikipedia. Absolutely Certainly (talk) 20:59, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Absolutely Certainly, I appreciate your efforts to add references; however, you haven't explained why you reverted my edits to improve their formatting. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:32, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

I broke down the first and last name and entered them in the appropriate fields. I made each citation point directly to the page where the term is mentioned. I added 'North America' as volume 1 is about North American trees. Volume 2 is about South American tress, and so on. I added the language in which the source is written. I added the URL status (live). I added via google books. Absolutely Certainly (talk) 11:37, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Breaking down names is unnecessary and the way you did it was incorrect. If page links are accessible (availability is variable), providing one link is sufficient for a four-page span and does not require duplicating references. |location= is not meant to indicate the subject of the volume - it's for where the volume was published. When language is set to English it does not display. |url-status= should only be included when there is an archiveurl, which in the case of these references there is not. |via= is an optional parameter that is again inconsistent with the established citation style.

You also made a number of other changes you haven't mentioned, including changing a correct |website= into an incorrect |others=, and changing the date formatting of some retrieval dates (making them inconsistent with the rest of the page). In short, unfortunately you added errors and inconsistencies which require correction. Thus I have reinstated those corrections. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:42, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Why is breaking down names unnecessary and how did I do it incorrectly?

It is unnecessary because |author= can validly contain the complete name of the author. Your approach used a combination of |author= and |first= instead. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:56, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

I did not duplicate references. I added unique references for each species. You have duplicated references since "citation 5" appears 6 times in the article.

Repeating a reference is not the same as redundant duplication - repeating is preferred to having multiple full citations to the same source, as in your version. (There are other valid ways to address this, but repeating full citation details four times for four pages is not useful).

I used 'location' because it was a creative way to make the citation read correctly. Simple solution to our dilemma, we change 'title" to: 'Elsevier's Dictionary of Trees Volume 1 North America, and remove the then redundant 'volume' parameter and incorrect 'location' parameter.

Citation templates aren't typically a place for creativity. Your proposed solution is similarly not a valid use of these templates. What we could do is expand the volume parameter to include the volume name.

Whether a parameter is displayed or not (en) does not make it irrelevant.

You state that 'url-status= should only be included when there is an archiveurl, which in the case of these references there is not.' On what do you base this assertion?

The documentation for Citation Style 1, which underlies the {{cite}} family of templates.

Why is 'via' inconsistent with the 'established' citation style? It is a parameter available in the template. What is the 'established citation style

Some parameters are available in the template but are optional rather than required for a particular citation type. For these templates, use or non-use of the parameter is established on an article-by-article basis - and such style choices should not be changed without consensus.

In 'cite book' only one parameter is required, the title of the book, all the rest are optional.

You also say that I 'made a number of other changes you haven't mentioned, including changing a correct |website= into an incorrect |others=, and changing the date formatting of some retrieval dates (making them inconsistent with the rest of the page). Do you have any examples to that up?

Here is an example of an edit introducing both of these problems. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:56, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

In short, unfortunately you added errors and inconsistencies which require correction. Thus I have reinstated those corrections. Absolutely Certainly (talk) 22:19, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Absolutely Certainly: while I appreciate you may be editing in good faith, your reversion was not in any way a correction and should not be repeated. I will answer your questions in more detail shortly. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:46, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

No reversion done. 'View history' and 'Read'. Just a new edit that meets all of your criteria. Absolutely Certainly (talk) 23:12, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Absolutely Certainly, it most certainly does not. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:21, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

In which way? I removed the numerous duplicates and edited the template with more information and referring to the first page in the range. Absolutely Certainly (talk) 23:26, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Absolutely Certainly, named references are an appropriate way to repeat citations to the same source; it's repeating full citations that is unnecessary redundancy. You've now removed correct citations. You've also added content to |title= that is not meant to be in that parameter, as above. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:30, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

It is all these 'irrelevant, optional, should, and meant to be' statements that are editorially unencyclopedic. Absolutely Certainly (talk) 23:39, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

My talk page is not an encyclopedia article. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:41, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Ludvig Verner Helms Infobox

Hello, Nikkimaria-- Help! You recently reverted a page I've been working on for Ludvig Verner Helms. I had attempted to add an infobox, using a wikidata item, which you removed with the comment "RV circular"

First let me say I am new to doing this, and am finding my way as I go. This infobox was my first foray into "wikidata"! So thank you for keeping me straight.

First I wanted to confirm I understand the problem you found, and then explain what I intend to do to fix it to make sure I'm fixing the right problem. And any advice you can give me would be appreciated. I have attempted to do my own research in wiki help, but it can be overwhelming...

I believe that problem you identified with "rv circular" was that I had cited the Helms wikidata entry as the source of the data in the wikidata entry. (I thought at the time I was citing the Helms wikipedia page--it seemed like an elegant solution at the time since all the data is well cited there. However I did notice and ignore an error flag on the reference). After you reverted the page, I found the wikidata help said that is not appropriate; instead I should put the same citations in wikidata, and then use those as the references for the wikidata for the infobox.

Is my above diagnosis correct?

I have also noticed (looking at other infoboxes) that most of the wikipedia infoboxes simply insert a template which includes all the data. This would be much easier than attempting to use wikidata as the source. And since all of the infobox data is also in the body of the wikipedia article, citations should be taken care of. I would use the infobox:person template, I don't see a better one.

Does this sound like a better approach?

Oh, and what is "rv" in your comment "rv circular"? And what does FAC, FAR, and DYK mean on your user page? Thanks, GuildCV1 GuildCV1 (talk) 03:00, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi GuildCV1, you're partly correct - citing the Helms Wikidata entry as the source of the data in the Wikidata entry is circular, but so too is importing data into Wikipedia that is ultimately cited to Wikipedia. See WP:CIRCULAR. You need external references to support this information, or you can follow the alternate approach you suggest. As for your other questions, "rv" means revert, FAC is Featured Article Candidates, FAR is Featured Article Review, and DYK is Did You Know - you might find this page helpful in understanding some of our common abbreviations, but often you can just stick WP: in front of a term in the search box and you'll end up at the right place (eg search WP:FAR will get you to the page about the Featured Article Review process). Nikkimaria (talk) 03:06, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Dang that was fast! Thanks for the reply, and I'll take a look at WP Circular. And I'll take the easy approach with the infobox.

One other quick question (Maybe). Much of the wikidata entries I paged through (including some in the Helms entry) have an auto-generated reference "imported from wikimedia project". I briefly researched this, and it appears there are "tools" that can do this. I'm particularly wondering if there is an automated way to populate the wikidata Helms page references using the wikipedia page and it's citations.

I scanned a list of tools, found some that looked promising, but got stopped dead with the "javascript" extension. Can you point me to a resource or help page on how to get a tool running? And is there a "go-to" tool you could recommend to do this? Or am I in over my head, and I need to be a "senior" wikiuser to play with tools!?

I'm not really sure why I'm doing anything with Helms wikidata at this point (my goal was to expand the Helms wikipedia page), but I thought I would at least understand what capability wikidata brings to the table.

Thanks! GuildCV1 (talk) 03:24, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi GuildCV1, were you looking at wikidata:WD:TOOLS? There are several options with different levels of sophistication, but if you're looking for something easy to get running, I'd actually suggest you go to your preferences and use some of the ones under Gadgets. They require that you have Javascript enabled in your browser; this page explains how to do that for many of the common browsers. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:44, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Perfect, thanks!

GuildCV1 GuildCV1 (talk) 03:45, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

FASA

Nikki, I don't see any more imminent saves for this month at FAR because John is still picking away at Josquin, and we are on hold for Ceoil for H. D. ... I was wondering if you wanted to action the three outstanding WP:FASA pages whenever you have a free moment. Bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:40, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election voting closing soon

Voting for the upcoming project coordinator election closes soon, at 23:59 on 28 September. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next coordination year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. Voting is conducted using simple approval voting and questions for the candidates are welcome. The voting itself is occurring here If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the current coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:14, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXCVIII, September 2022

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on Australian military leadership and Nick-D on the First Crusade's Byzantine connection

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Women in Red October 2022

Women in Red October 2022, Vol 8, Issue 10, Nos 214, 217, 242, 243, 244 Online events: New: Alphabet run: G and H | Women in STEM / Ada Lovelace Day | Geofocus West Asia Continuing: Climate (year-long initiative) | #1day1woman See also: Women in Green's "Wildcard Edition" Good Article editathon Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

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Books & Bytes – Issue 52

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 52, July – August 2022

• New instant-access collections:
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The Signpost: 30 September 2022

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MOS:1STABBR

MOS:1STABBR indicates that on the first occurrence of an abbreviation it should be introduced with the full expression, ie. "National Rugby League (NRL)". Introducing a secondary link to the same target adds another MOS issue (duplink) and does not resolve the original, since readers should not have to follow links to understand abbreviations.

You seem to have quite alot of talk compared to most users, but I will say that I have absolutely bent over backwards to attempt to accomodate you. I have fulfilled the tenets of that directive, with your takeaway that we should assume that the reader is better suited to reading the simple English version of wikipedia. I don't want to cast aspersions over the readers of the articles, nor over you, as I'm sure you are a lovely lady, but I believe you will be shovelling water uphill on this one, as I'm not seeing this on the EPL, SPL or IPL. When someone has gone out of there way to ignore the WPRL MOS, it seems quite churlish to absolutely enforce your take on introductions, when it is not widely enforced in other sports.Fleets (talk) 07:41, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Fleets, if other articles have similar issues, the correct response is to fix them - certainly not to use that as a justification to revert fixes to these articles. Unfortunately rather than "bending over backwards" to accommodate readers, you are actively blocking improvements, apparently without any rationale other than "other issues exist". Please stop doing that. Nikkimaria (talk) 11:57, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't believe they needed fixing in the first place, and was pointing out your justification leaned towards assuming people were idiots, and should be treated as such. My response to that would let them use the simple english version of Wikipedia. I am literally going out of my way to engage with someone who is going out of there way to make a sentence not flow. I am attempting to engage with you, but it doesn't appear to be bearing any fruit.Fleets (talk) 12:41, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

My take on reading up at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Abbreviations is that you would be transcluding the primary page rule out to the many pages that are subordinate from it. Whilst it makes sense that the BBC is defined by its abbreviations, it would make little sense for all of it's employees to have the corporation initialised, nor would you expect to see astronauts initialised, though the parent page would be.Fleets (talk) 15:32, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Fleets, we have a global audience, and aim to make the encyclopedia accessible to them - not just send everyone to Simple. There's nothing at MOS:ABBR that supports your interpretation regarding subarticles, nor does simply providing the acronym in parentheses a single time intolerably impact flow. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:47, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm sorry but did you read the link, you are applying the rule for the mother article to the child article. You would not have a rod for your back that is hundreds of articles, your interpretation would see you having to change hundreds of thousands of articles.Fleets (talk) 05:48, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Yes, Fleets, I read the link. It does not discriminate between parent and child articles. If you believe otherwise, please cite the specific section you're referencing. Nikkimaria (talk) 11:50, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Whitey (musician) page: Edit inquiry

Hey there, I just wanted to ask why you removed my contributions to the Whitey wikipedia page when I put in the time to cite any available online sources? sure the sources weren't all accredited, but I have personally verified these as correct as I have watched all the shows (that don't have an accredited source, and have played GTA4 which was referenced) how am I to find any other sources? surely the information of one of his songs being in Breaking Bad is more important than finding an accredited source? especially when previously there were absolutely no sources listed? I'm not trying to just be annoying, but I can't exactly find a peer reviewed paper on whitey songs in TV shows. I'm trying to find your reasons here so I can be better for the future.

Thanks Navy Groundhog (talk) 18:43, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi Navy Groundhog, I understand that the lack of sources can be frustrating - sometimes there just isn't reliable support for the content you want to add. Unfortunately though your own personal experience watching the show, or unreliable sources like open wikis, aren't good standins. (I realized though that I removed one piece I hadn't intended to, so I've added that back in - thanks). Nikkimaria (talk) 21:43, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Nikki, this isn't consistent with all of the Wikipedia pages titled "List of <Show Name> Episodes." Each of these contains a block of episode summaries that generally have no citations at all. The implied source is clearly the episode itself. Anyone that wants to verify that the summary is accurate can go watch the episode in question. As these are usually pay-walled behind subscription services, or in the case of older shows, possibly not on the Internet at all, there is usually no way to provide a web link to the episode. The same is true for books. Take https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eye_of_the_World. The plot summary has no citations, because the source is the book itself, the text of which is copyrighted and not available on the Internet. 2603:8080:6A00:32FF:98E1:2FBD:14AB:33B8 (talk) 19:44, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi IP, there are different sourcing requirements at play. WP:PLOTSOURCE allows for the case you describe: on the page about a work, the work itself is assumed to be a primary source for a plot summary. That special case doesn't apply on other pages. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:34, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

pulling hooks

Hi, Nikkimaria! Thanks for pulling Grant Hermanns from prep, that's a good catch :)

As a technical note, when a hook is removed from prep, both the hook and the credit slot need to be replaced with blanks; that way, both manually and automatically promoting editors know in a pinch where the credits are supposed to go. The blank credit is usually a * {{DYKmake|Example|Editor|subpage=}}, and if it's the last hook in a set, it'll be that plus a * {{DYKnom|Example|Nominator}} on a new line. A blank hook looks like * ... that .... Thanks very much! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 20:21, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Noted, thanks. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:15, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: September 2022

This Month in GLAM – Volume XII, Issue IX, September 2022 Headlines Albania report: Wiki Loves EuroPride in Albania Australia report: Behind the scenes with Australia's Wiki Loves Earth 2022 winner Austria report: A Börthday present for Wikidata - the DACH Culture Contest Brazil report: Reopening of Museu Paulista and other news France report: Meeting with Prime minister cultural adviser; Residence at the Brittany Museum India report: Digitisation of O Bharat, a bilingual biweekly published in Goa from 1912 to 1949 Indonesia report: GLAM Socialization; Wikistories for GLAM Competition Italy report: September month of results and planning Netherlands report: Wiki Loves Monuments Suriname first edition: 554 photos New Zealand report: New Zealand Thesis Project and Te Papa Forget-me-nots Poland report: The results of GLAM editing contest; GLAM Coordinators Meeting Serbia report: External projects, great results and high level of independence Sweden report: Bookfair back on site; Cultural history in High Schools; More identifiers from National Historical Museums of Sweden on Wikidata; Swedish general election 2022 Switzerland report: Swiss GLAM Programm UK report: Islamic art and global art USA report: Advocacy and Invention; New Smithsonian WiR; Called to Create; DC Statehood and Home Rule; Annual meeting; Wikipedian in Residence Opportunity at the Pérez Art Museum Miami Content Partnerships Hub report: Workshops on tool prioritization and helpdesk Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons report: View it! tool development update Calendar: October's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

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RS

am i missing something you remove http://www.thepeerage.com/p3608.htm#i36071 citation from Lady Elizabeth Page claiming it to be RS. the peerage.com provided their citations

1. [S37] BP2003 volume 2, page 2599. See link for full details for this source. Hereinafter cited as. [S37]
2. [S130] Wikipedia, online http;//www.wikipedia.org. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
3. [S323] Sir James Balfour Paul, The Scots Peerage: founded on Wood's edition of Sir Robert Douglas's The Peerage of Scotland (Edinburgh, Scotland: David Douglas, 1904), volume VIII, page 209. Hereinafter cited as The Scots Peerage.
4. [S37] BP2003. [S37]

while you didn't remove no.3 reference from https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2014/05/05/belle-true-story-movie-details-changed/8419041/, basically a movie review with no citations like the peerage.com Wentwort12 (talk) 04:57, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi Wentwort12, thepeerage is deprecated and should not be cited in articles. If you feel there should be a similar limitation on the other source, you're welcome to propose that at the reliable sources noticeboard. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:22, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Murder of Joann Lee Tiesler

Well in that case, shouldn't other articles such as Murder of Tracie McBride and Murder of Yingying Zhang not have a second info box because the killers are not the main subject? Rexxx7777 (talk) 22:37, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Yes. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:40, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

rm non-RS

Hi there. I noticed you've been removing citations that are not to reliable sources, but leaving the previously sourced material in the articles. Is it truly better to remove a non-rs citation but leave completely unsourced material? Why not delete the sentence you're challenging instead of only removing the citation? Why not add a CN tag? Mbdfar (talk) 04:53, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi Mbdfar, there is effectively no difference between material with an unreliable source and material that is unsourced - in both cases the content is lacking a reliable source to support it. Depending on the specific material in question, sometimes I will remove it entirely and other times leave it in place. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:54, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXCVIII, October 2022

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Recent external reviews Op-ed: Meet some of the project coordinators

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 15:38, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you

October songs

... for the source review Ich will den Kreuzstab gerne tragen, BWV 56 in its second attempt! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:36, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Women in Red November 2022

Women in Red November 2022, Vol 8, Issue 11, Nos 214, 217, 245, 246, 247 Online events: New: Alphabet run: I and J | Women in Education | Geofocus Central & Southern Asia Continuing: Climate (year-long initiative) | #1day1woman See also: Wikipedia Asian Month November Contest Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Lajmmoore (talk) 17:34, 26 October 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

October 2022

From your current listing at FAC mentors, you are listed for possible interest in various articles. For the past several months, I've been editing the president's article for James Madison, and thought to ask you if this would be of sufficient interest for you to look at. After my successful GAN promotion for it, there are now another two positive peer reviews as well. Any interest for you to possibly be a co-nominator or mentor for a FAC nomination for this biography article? ErnestKrause (talk) 14:31, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi ErnestKrause, I'm happy to look at it, but I think Hog Farm would be better positioned to be a possible co-nom there. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:35, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

I've given a pre-FAC review but would rather not be a formal co-nom. I don't consider myself particularly familiar with most of the politics stuff, and I generally prefer not to co-nominate on stuff that I haven't extensively source-checked. Hog Farm _Talk 01:10, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Both Hog Farm and Vanamonde have done pre-FACs (HF comments directly above) for the article though and they haven't signed up for the FAC. That leaves it open for you to co-nominate or mentor if you are still inclined to after you have a chance to look at the article. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:24, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi ErnestKrause, like HF I'm reluctant to co-nom an article of this scope without being intimately familiar with the subject and sourcing. However, I do have some suggestions for you to consider heading into FAC.

• Make sure the image licensing is complete and supported by the information provided in the image description. For example, the tag currently on File:Battle_of_New_Orleans,_Jean_Hyacinthe_de_Laclotte.jpg states that "You must also include a United States public domain tag to indicate why this work is in the public domain in the United States" - such a tag needs to be added. Another issue is File:Nat-bap-windows.png: the uploader may have taken the photo, but the artwork pictured is almost certainly not their own work.
• Make sure citation formatting is consistent - you should be able to articulate how a particular citation type is set up and ensure that all citations of that type follow that model. For example, footnotes 4 and 8 and 18 are to the same website, but all have different formatting.
• For every source used, make sure you can explain if asked why that particular source is high-quality and reliable. For example, Healthguidance.org - why is this site a strong source for the claim it's supporting? Nikkimaria (talk) 13:54, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

• Thanks for those comments. I've removed the stained glass image as being supplementary to the article which has many images, and the other image you mentioned was changed to another image by another editor. I've nominated the article now and the images look better now. ErnestKrause (talk) 12:53, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

• Hi ErnestKrause, that's great, but don't neglect the two sourcing comments - both of the examples mentioned above are still present, and these are samples only. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:26, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

• After looking up some books, "health guidance.com" appears to be used by multiple science books in press at this time including Application of Nanotechnology in Food Science here: [1]. It looks like these citations check out correctly. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:52, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Pietro Yon reliable sourcing question

Hi Nikkimaria, you recently removed a non-RS I cited in Pietro Yon. Thank you for making me aware of Wikipedia's stance on FindAGrave's reliability. I have a follow-up question: reliability aside, Find-A-Grave was the only source I know to support his internment at Gate of Heaven; should we accordingly remove the article statements that were originally supported by that FindAGrave citation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vipavipa (talk • contribs) 11:35, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Looks like you were able to find a better source. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:39, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

I've also found a better source for J. Meade Falkner's grave at Burford, and reinstated the mention of his grave that you removed because of the FindAGrave source. Could I politely request that you mark these with rather than deleting uncontroversial, and usually valid, information from articles wholesale, which is rather throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Dave.Dunford (talk) 13:15, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

I've found through lots of experience dealing with poor sourcing that, whether I take the content out or leave it, someone will think I should be doing the opposite. For that reason rather than a blanket approach I do what I think is best in a particular case, and in this particular case I think it's better to remove - really even if you had rock-solid sourcing the claim doesn't seem to belong where it is. But I don't feel strongly about that so if you want to keep it there with a better source then so be it. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:07, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Fair enough, and I can see what you mean about the positioning of this information, but I've never really understood the logic in removing information wholesale just because of dodgy sourcing (especially in cases like this, where the claim is uncontroversial; this isn't what Wikipedia's sourcing guidelines were conceived to deal with, IMO). The problem here is the citation, not the material, so it makes no sense at all to me to remove the material. In order of descending preference, I'd: 1) find a better citation; 2) flag the reference as "better citation needed"; 3) remove the reference; 4) remove the material and reference. YMMV. Dave.Dunford (talk) 11:50, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

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NRL

I'm not sure if you might have something to contribute here? Doctorhawkes (talk) 23:01, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Alexander Dimitry

I have improved this article to the best of my abilities. Thank you for taking your time to edit it. Carefully read what it says. Do you want this put another way?

His mother Marianne Celeste Dragon's portrait was on the cover of the 2009 book Exiles at Home by Shirley Elizabeth Thompson.

Marianne Celeste Dragon was featured in the 2013 book Behind Closed Doors Art in the Spanish American Home, 1492-1898 By Mia L. Bagneris, Michael A. Brown, Suzanne L. Stratton-Pruitt Tzim78 (talk) 13:58, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

• The references to popular media are listed as books.Tzim78 (talk) 14:01, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

I noticed you added a cn without carefully going over the clickable references I added. I also tried to improve the references. If you click on the links associated with each reference it will take you to the book or information I cited. Tzim78 (talk) 14:07, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Tzim78, thank you for adding a reference to replace the cn tag. With regards to the popular media section, I'm aware they are listed as books, but why is it significant to an understanding of Alexander to know that his mother was featured in books? That section, if included, should be about his impact on culture. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:11, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

• Great I fixed it thanksTzim78 (talk) 14:48, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

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Question

Hi Nikki, just reviewing some old A-Class articles and I'm wondering about this image: File:DC2Kyeema.jpg. It's atypical because a scan from a book and I've not been able to find the image anywhere online, although I can confirm that the book does credit the image to the National Library of Australia, per the WP page. Does the licensing still look okay to you or should I revisit? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:29, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Ian, unless there's more info than that in the book we don't know enough to confirm that the licensing is correct. The Australian tag is fine per creation date, but the US tag in use requires publication. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:24, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Ha, no such luck... I trawled back issues of Australian newspapers to see if it'd been published back then but couldn't find it. OTOH I did spot another image of just the aeroplane that was published in a newspaper in 1937 and that can be downloaded from the National Library, so perhaps that's the one to go for... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 16:42, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Sorry Nikki, just to confirm before I try something else, would you say there's any licence we could use for this image to make it solid? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:38, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Ian, it's possible, but you'd need more information - either an earlier publication or evidence that the image was Crown copyright. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:53, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Yep that's what I wanted to know -- since there's no evidence it was taken by a government employee and I can't prove that it was published around the time it was taken, I'll go for the other one I have in mind that does appear in a contemporary newspaper and so presumably will satisfy the US tag requirement. Tks/cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:57, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Lord of the Flies

Dear Nikkimaria,

Thanks for your interest in this article. Could you please explain your revert of the explanation of the "biguns" and "littluns" https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lord_of_the_Flies&type=revision&diff=1122160131&oldid=1122097034 ? Did i miss something? Thanks, Hansmuller (talk) 10:52, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Hansmuller, the source you provided was a user-generated wiki, which is not considered reliable. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:23, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Removing bad sources

I see that you have removed bad sources from missing people. It would be good if you could replace them with and better source after you remove them. I have been replacing some the sources after you have removed them. Davidgoodheart (talk) 05:00, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

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Providence Demographics

Hi, I've been trying to make a couple improvements in the Providence Demographics section. One of the changes I'd like to make is moving the decennial census table from the history section, to the demographics section, and change it to single column, right-aligned. I can't find any significant US City article that does the census data any different than right-aligned single column in the demographics section.

Could you be more specific about the reason you reverted the table change? I'm not sure what the formatting issue was. Thanks. AlleyRegent69 (talk) 22:09, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi AlleyRegent69, that placement pushes a bunch of other stuff down the page and divorces it from the relevant textual content. Having a big column like that in an image- and chart-heavy page is always going to cause problems. Also, the content belongs just as well (actually probably better) in History than Demographics. Alternatively it could be moved to a subarticle, as is done for countries. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:08, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Look at every other US city article, though. I don't think it makes sense for Providence to have a different decennial census table than literally every other significant US city.

If anything, the problem is the crime statistic info box, which should get moved to another section. AlleyRegent69 (talk) 15:06, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Just because other articles do something a certain way, doesn't mean that way is the best (or only) way to do things. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:07, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Milicent Shinn page

Hi, I'm curious why several links were removed from the page and why the birth death dates of her father and mother were removed. These birth/deat dates are important to refute Scarborough and Furmoto's claims. And if the links to outside websites is not allowed, please let me know what is the rule.

Thank you

I am getting used to the comparing of different versions, so please bear with me if I have gotten your changes incorrectly identified. Appreciate the feedback.

Janet WashTownHistory (talk) 00:16, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Janet. Find-a-Grave is not considered to be a reliable source, and external links should not appear in the body of the article (they could be either written as citations or moved to the External links section). As for the dates, birth and death dates are generally only included after a name in the article body if there is special contextual relevance - could you elaborate why you believe that to be the case here? It's not clear to me how those dates, in addition to the subject's, would refute "the family claim". Nikkimaria (talk) 02:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the speedy response.

I can understand that Find-a-grave is not a reliable source, since I've found much incorrect information there. Can I say that their graves are at the Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland without providing a link? As far as I know MVC does not have an online list of people buried there. I have visited the family gravesite and know that they are there.

The reason that I had put in Milicent's parent's dates of death was that the Untold Lives chapter claimed that Milicent's parents were ailing and that was why she did not continue with her career. In actuality her father had passed much earlier and her mother was ailing, but she had plenty of family support. Elissa Rodkey's article "Far More than a dutiful daughter" has pointed out other discrepancies in their chapter on Milicent. I will add this information to the "Family Claim Controversy" section instead of leaving it up to the reader to see it in another section. (I had also added that because I kept wanting to know their date of birth and death, but I will put it in there in a more appropriate and relevant place.

Thank you for explaining the external links.

Are you saying that it would be ok to put the Mission Peak Heritage Foundation link in the External Links section? We do like to have people find us since very few people know that there is an archive at Shinn Historical Park & Arboretum.

I'm still making my way around wikipedia and really love this resource and want to provide as much correct and accurate information as possible. Thank you for the feedback.

Janet WashTownHistory (talk) 00:31, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Janet, sure, that can go in the External links section. Alternatively, you can use it as a citation to support the claims made in the section on the park, although based on your comment I'd suggest you have a look at the Conflict of Interest guideline. Regarding the burial sourcing, this source would seem to be useful for that purpose? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:15, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I'm just getting back to the some of your comments. I am going to add this link to Milcent's grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/124884151/milicent-washburn-shinn#source

It's the only one that I can find that is correct and somewhat stable. I think that is what you said would be ok to add to External Links? Alternately I could put a link to the map of the grounds https://www.mountainviewcemetery.org/about-us/map-of-the-grounds and say that their plot is #13. the source that you mentioned https://sites.google.com/view/chinese-bunkhouse-preservation/history?pli=1 is nice that it has the hand-drawn map of the family burial site and a mention of where they were removed to. However, that is my website and will be subject to change. That map will be scanned in for 2023 or 2024 and will appear on the California State Library website. It is only of historic significance because the area was quarried out completely and is now a lake :O). So I will make some changes and I hope that you can review to let me know if I've done this properly. Thank you! WashTownHistory (talk) 21:32, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Two Of Us (Film 2000) Wikipage

Hi, rather than going back and forth on revisions on The Two of Us (Film 2000) entry, and seeing how you've been around awhile and I'm just starting out, perhaps I'll have something to learn here. What the Wiki rules state is thus (I have just left in the releevent part for expediency):

What can normally be linked Shortcut WP:ELYES Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that is relevant to an encyclopedic understanding of the subject and cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues, amount of detail (such as professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts, or online textbooks), or other reasons.

If you could please enlighten me why the Wiki rules state that movie or television credits fall under content what can be normally linked, (which would also be subject to erring on the side of allowing non-destructive edits to stand) but your interpretation is that this is incorrect. I read the section you are citing, and it is pretty clear the section I am citing is the exception to the rule you are enforcing. If I am incorrect about this, I am happy to learn why!! Thanks in advance. Arts Publica (talk) 03:56, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Arts Publica, the relevant rule is WP:ELPOINTS point 2: external links don't belong in the body of the article. This applies even if the link is 100% appropriate per ELYES. Instead external links belong in a separate external links section, at the end of the article. I'm not convinced it's appropriate to include IMDb links for all cast members for a film article, so I haven't done that, but if you think they should be included, that would be the place for them. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:00, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Nikkimaria!! Thanks for your reply!! As mentioned already, it is indeed super clear what WP:ELPOINTS point 2: says, however the item under discussion is not in fact what WP:ELPOINTS point 2: PROHIBITS, but instead what WP:ELYES point 3 ALLOWS. WP:ELYES point 3 not only allows for an external link to movie and television databases, it explicitly names such lists and encourages their addition by specifically categorizing them under the title WHAT CAN NORMALLY BE LINKED.

I agree with you that it is not necessarily appropriate to include links to all cast members in a project, but the edit in question is not seeking to add ALL cast members. It seeks to add one cast member, with context - ie not a passive addition. WP:ELYES point 3 provides a clear guideline not just for what is acceptable, but what is explicitly deemed as NORMALLY ALLOWED, obviating any necessity to attempt a purely subjective determination about this external link because the rule I am citing specifically names movie and television credit lists as NORMALLY ALLOWABLE.

I believe what you may actually be arguing is that the proposed external link is somehow in some way abnormal, and therefore not allowable. But I suggest to you that my use of the external link, the way I deployed it is precisely the use anticipated by WP:ELYES point 3. Thoughts? Arts Publica (talk) 04:57, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Arts Publica, I think we're talking past each other a bit. I'm quite happy to agree to disagree with you on whether these links fall under ELYES. Even if they fall under ELYES, they still shouldn't be in the article body, because that's just not where external links go according to the external links guideline. Any link included per ELYES should be in an external links section. ELPOINTS states that "include appropriate external links in an "External links" section at the end of the article" - read "appropriate" here as meaning "anything included per ELYES". (If a wording change on that guideline would make this clearer let me know and I can propose it). Nikkimaria (talk) 05:10, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Nikkimaria. Fair points all. While I think the language in that rules section is ambiguous and could benefit by some smithing, it's also pretty clear that there are few external links in the body of articles. In any event, I'm the newbie here and so I'm quite sure following your lead will only be to my benefit!! OK. Thanks for all for now!! Arts Publica (talk) 05:36, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Seeking guidance on an RFC

HI Nikkimaria, I'm asking for some guidance on an RFC. I think it should be given greater prominence than it currently has, but I don't want to be canvassing. Any advice you can give would be appreciated. The RFC is at Talk:Environment and Climate Change Canada, and it's about the use of the French name of the federal department in the lead sentence of the article. There was previous discussion, and then it was converted to an RFC. There was a previous posting to the Canadian Notice Board, and you'll see that in the original discussion I had pointed out that the same pattern is followed in articles about the Irish government, so I think it's relevant both to Canadian editors, and also to Irish editors. Now that it's been turned into a formal RFC, would it be okay to post links to it at the Canadian Notice Board, or on the Talk page of Wikipedia:WikiProject Ireland, without comment on the merits, just to draw it to people's attention? Or would that be canvassing? The reason I'm asking is that I don't really understand how RFCs work, and last spring I apparently didn't follow accepted practice on that issue about what should be in the infoboxes for the provinces. I would appreciate your thoughts. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 13:24, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Mr Serjeant Buzfuz, I think it'd be reasonable to make a neutral note at the Canadian noticeboard that the discussion has now been converted to an RfC. I see the RfC's poster has also left a note at WT:LEAD. I don't anticipate that a similar note to WP:IRELAND would be canvassing, but I'm not sure that project is relevant - regardless of what outcome is arrived at for this article, it wouldn't be binding on Irish articles. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:05, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

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Aberfan

Thanks very much for this. I thought it was absolute [redacted] to be honest, but I sometimes just do not have the energy for confrontation on here so I very much hoped that someone else would address it. Cowardly and lazy, yes, but effective. Thanks again and all good wishes DBaK (talk) 08:20, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

wilkins

I still disagree with you about the link to findagrave - while the user-contributed information is not considered a reliable source, a photograph of a gravestone should be.

At any rate, I don’t see that the link you added has any value. Unless I’m missing something (always possible) all it contains is a catalog record listing a photograph of wilkins (not shown), and has nothing to do with his personal life. Peter Flass (talk) 16:45, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

A photograph can only source what is shown in it - most of the original claim was not. The only piece that was included was the death date; the new source has that, and is a secondary source whereas the original was primary. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:36, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Indigenous Canadians

Have had a very frustrating time at the metis article... Cindy warned us about when this got merged that this may happen...o well....With that said it made me double check our main article and I really think we should review indigenous people of Canada article. Thinking it's not GA level anymore or should I say up to today's standards and we should consolidate a lot of the information. Are you up for a review of the holidays? I mentioned this in the past just keeps getting delayed . Moxy- 01:57, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi Moxy, are you looking to delist the article, or improve it back to standards? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:59, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Bringing it back up to standards. Was planning to spend some time editing it and getting you to take a quick review..... alongside your recommendations. Moxy- 02:02, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi Moxy, sure - if you want to take a run through first and then let me know when it's ready to take a look? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:03, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

sounds good I'll let you know in the new year. Moxy- 02:04, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Grant Hermanns

Nikkimaria, any chance you can return to this nomination and give further information on the close paraphrasing? Unfortunately, you weren't pinged in the response to your most recent comment. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:36, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CC, December 2022

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RFC Metis Ontario

Pls see Talk:Métis#RFC Ontario Moxy- 15:24, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

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The vote for U.S. distinction

Hi Nikkimaria

Squared.Circle.Boxing already pinged you. Just wanted to let you know in advance, when I said that someone should stop you, I meant it as not for you to do extra work on your part. You must have seen my name already, I removed the U.S., you put it back and now I'm all for it. Thanks to SCB and Bagumba it makes sense to have it. You do a lot of work, so you may want to read the discussion and vote. Sorry I forgot to ping you.

Regards,

Bringingthewood (talk) 01:04, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Noted, thanks. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:05, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

You're very welcome and thank you for voting. Bringingthewood (talk) 01:23, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

A very happy Christmas and New Year to you!
Have a great Christmas, and may 2023 bring you joy, happiness – and no trolls, vandals or visits from Krampus! Cheers SchroCat (talk) 11:15, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Cheers SchroCat, same to you! Nikkimaria (talk) 00:10, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Hurley, WI wikipedia article

Nikkimaria: Why are continually deleting the entries for both John R. Sturgul, Professor Emeritus at the University of Adelaide, South Australia. [source: https://www.mtu.edu] and Elder Law Attorney Paul A. Sturgul, longest-serving president of the National Elder Law Foundation [source, https://nelf.org]. Attorney Sturgul is only the only person to have served as president of the Elder Law Sections of both the Wisconsin and Michigan State Bars. He is also a Fellow of the National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys, and of the Wisconsin Law Foundation. You seem to be picking on both John and Paul Sturgul. You have not deleted any other entries. Do you have some animus against them? Please undue your action. Thank you. NorthernHistorian1 (talk) 23:56, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi NorthernHistorian1, if you believe these individuals meet Wikipedia's notability standard, you can restore them with sourcing supporting that belief. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:09, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Since you deleted them and I have previously and again now provided you with the sources: for Professor John R. Sturgul https://www.mtu.edu and for Elder Law Attorney Paul A. Sturgul, https://nelf.org I asking you to restore them. This will be a gesture of good will on your part. Thank you. NorthernHistorian1 (talk) 21:51, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Hey NorthernHistorian1, it's good to meet you. I'm another Wikipedia editor like Nikki, and my hometown isn't far from Hurley. Nikki is right in that the people you're looking to list have to meet Wikipedia's people-specific notability test. That generally happens when "they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject" (emphases in original). From some quick searching online, I don't think John or Paul meet these standards—I'm sorry. Best, Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 01:36, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

David Atlas

Why bring back the original Infobox (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Atlas&diff=1129382671&oldid=1129310691) when the Infobox with Wikidata is entirely referenced and gives more informations?

Pierre cb (talk) 03:26, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

More information does not mean better - see the MOS. The previous version was appropriate for the subject. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:10, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Frank Page (broadcaster)

Hi Nikkimaria. I generally understood the logic behind you removing Find a Grave citations not placed there by me from the article, but why remove Find a Grave from "External links" as that section has nothing to do with citations or referencing whatsoever? Best, Lieutcoluseng (talk) 16:00, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi Lieutcoluseng, per WP:ELNEVER it can't be included when it contains copyrighted material from other sources - the text at that link appears to have been copied verbatim from a published obit. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:03, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Understood, Nikki. Thanks for the timely response. Happy new year, Lieutcoluseng (talk) 17:25, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Women in Red January 2023

Happy New Year from Women in Red | January 2023, Volume 9, Issue 1, Nos 250, 251, 252, 253, 254 Online events: New: Peace and Diplomacy (year-long initiative) | Alphabet run M & N | Geofocus East Asia Continuing: #1day1woman | Women who died in 2022 See also: Editing For Effie collaboration with the Smithsonian, January 8 & 9 (global event) Tip of the month: De-orphan and incorporate an article into Wikipedia using the Find Link tool Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

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Talk:Louis Brandeis Supreme Court nomination/GA1

Nikkimaria, this GA nomination was originally delayed due to a second opinion request from the reviewer regarding copyvio/close paraphrasing, and some was found. It's now back to that point, and I was wondering whether you could take a look yourself; I think someone else experienced in that area needs to see whether other instances remain. Thank you very much, and I hope you've been having a good holiday season. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:58, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

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Happy Kalends of January

		Happy New Year!
		Wishing you and yours a Happy New Year, from the horse and bishop person. May the year ahead be productive and distraction-free and may Janus light your way. Ealdgyth (talk) 13:57, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Cheers Ealdgyth, same to you! Nikkimaria (talk) 14:08, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Nikkimaria!

Happy New Year!

Nikkimaria,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
— Moops ^⋠T⋡ 00:26, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

— Moops ^⋠T⋡ 00:26, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Cheers. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:29, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Happy New Year!

Nikkimaria,
I hope the New Year is most excellent for you and yours! Best wishes, and it was fun working with you on Wikipedia this year!
In spite of what the time clock says, it's January 1 where I'm posting from!

Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 02:16, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Cheers Mr Serjeant Buzfuz, same to you. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:30, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Happy new year!

Hi Nikkimaria, I hope you have a happy and healthy New Year! Thank you for your continued dedication to quality and contributions to the wiki. Best wishes, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 22:08, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Cheers Eddie891, same to you. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:25, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Peer Review Request

Hi -- I'm seeking peer review for the page Welfare Colonialism and based on your interest in Canadian history and the peer review instructions am reaching out to see if you'd be able to take a look and share your thoughts. My notes on the review page are: "Hello, I am requesting peer review of this page. I am somewhat new to the peer review process; my aim is simply to further develop this page. To that end I appeal to those more experienced than I to advise me." Cheers and much thanks Iguana0000 (talk) 14:08, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue 201, January 2023

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on the key contributions of two Australian scientists in World War II Review essay: Nick-D reports on his recent visits to British military sites

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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 19:45, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Wyandotte, Michigan

Hi, are you sure it makes more sense to write [[Wyandotte, Michigan]] rather than [[Wyandotte, Michigan|Wyandotte]], [[Michigan]]? Your way doesn't allow a user to reach Michigan. If the city was Detroit, for example, would you write it as [[Detroit|Detroit, Michigan]]? Nehme₁₄₉₉ 10:09, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi Nehme1499, see MOS:GEOLINK. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:53, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Ah, I wasn't aware Michigan shouldn't be linked in the first place. Thanks. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 13:08, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: December 2022

This Month in GLAM – Volume XII, Issue XII, December 2022 Headlines Argentina report: Ongoing projects with open culture Croatia report: A YEAR in REarVIEW! Denmark report: Edit-a-thon on contemporary Danish artists from the former Yugoslavia India report: CIS-A2K launches GLAM projects in Aurangabad, Maharashtra Indonesia report: Digitalization in Deli Serdang and Yogyakarta; #1Lib1Ref Workshop; Structured Data Marathon Italy report: Museo Egizio - collection import New Zealand report: The Great Macron War, Critter of the Week, and West Couast Wikisource Nigeria report: WikiLovesLibraries Nigeria:An initiative beyond 1Lib1Ref for Librarians in Nigeria Poland report: The first European GLAM Coordinators online meet-up; New articles on the collection of Wawel Royal Castle; Results of Wiki Loves Monuments 2022 Portugal report: Wikibase in social sciences and Public Domain Day celebrations Spain report: Wikidata Birthday and ongoing projects Sweden report: Musikverket; Media literacy graphics; Reports for project and to project partners Switzerland report: Swiss GLAM Programme: look back to 2022 Uganda report: GLAM in Uganda 2022 UK report: Khalili project year in review USA report: Wikipedia Edit-a-Thon: International Volunteer Day; ICP x Art + Feminism AvoinGLAM report: Introducing Wiki Loves Living Heritage Content Partnerships Hub report: Helpdesk; IGO/INGO Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons report: View it!: New FULL version is ready to launch WMF GLAM report: GLAM-Wiki Con 2023, DPLA's new Sloan Foundation funding, and more Calendar: January's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

About This Month in GLAM · Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery · Romaine 12:17, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

None RS

Please tell me what this means? I spent time adding to an article which you removed with the above comment, if I need to add more just let me know and I’ll update it Nijs48 (talk) 01:18, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi Nijs48, RS is a reference to our page on reliable sources - user-generated sources (eg wikis) are not appropriate sources from which to build content. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:20, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Some were wiki links so people can see what I was referring to. However there were none wiki links involved (granted to another websites). Can you give me more details regarding what is and is not appropriate please and I will try my best to find the information. Nijs48 (talk) 01:22, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi Nijs48, I'd suggest having a look at this page which outlines some common reliable and unreliable sources. As you'll see there, Fandom is generally unreliable. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:24, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

thank you. I feel that the motorsport history is worthy of being noted Nijs48 (talk) 13:14, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

What does this mean?

I spent time editing an article and you removed it with that edit. Please explain and I will endeavour to edit the page with the correct details. The information I posted was correct and also had references for the information. Nijs48 (talk) 01:20, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi Nijs48, as above, the references you provided were not reliable. Do you have better sources available for the content you want to add? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:22, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

New to Editing

Hi There! I recently made an edit to the 'Oda Nobunaga' page after watching 'Age of Samurai: Battle for Japan' on Netflix, and saw you had removed everything. I was just wondering why this edit was removed, as all I had used were links to the related Wikipedia pages? Should I have used ImDB or another more reliable website as reference instead? I see above, that using other Wiki or Fandom Wiki links aren't considered RS... Would that have been the same for the Yu-Gi-Oh! Edit I made, as it's a damn certainty a set of cards were based upon him. The Shien/Six Samurai card series starts with a card ('Tenkabito Shien') that has a very striking resemblance to Nobunaga's 'Samurai Warriors' representation? Thanks in Advance :) TheForbiddenOne 010 (talk) 14:39, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi TheForbiddenOne 010, yes, for both edits you would need reliable secondary sourcing. There's actually a requirement for "in popular culture"-type content that it has sourcing not only that the reference exists, but that it was significant for the subject's cultural impact. IMDb unfortunately won't meet that. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:04, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

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Single-lip and double-lip embouchure

Hi Nikki, I saw you reverted my merging of the aforementioned pages into Embouchure. Was there a reason for that? The articles in question are stubs that have already been rewritten in multiple other pages, and don't link to anything but themselves. VendettaCalls (talk) 03:37, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi VendettaCalls, while they are currently stubs, there is sourcing available to support a more developed article on these topics. The more general article necessarily covers many topics, such that the current content is difficult to locate and expanded content would be undue. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:40, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

What would you consider to be a "more expanded article"? The general article is already split into sections based on instrument type, one being reed instrument embouchures. In creating these two stubs, it breaks with the precedent of the article, whilst not (in my eyes) having sufficient distinction to be a relevant separate article. I wouldn't consider the content "difficult to locate" so much as "in the article where relevant". VendettaCalls (talk) 03:43, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

It doesn't so much break with the "precedent" of the article as it does establish a correct hierarchy of parent and child articles. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:45, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Right, but this is again based on the assumption that these embouchures — in practice, specifically these ones, as there has been no attempt to do the same for any other embouchure listed in the general article — has enough content to support a "more developed article". I posit that this does not exist, except within the context of a how-to list for performing the embouchure. Reiterating my question, what do you consider to be a "more expanded article", and what sources support that conclusion? VendettaCalls (talk) 03:53, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

I posit that it can very easily exist, given the sources available. I did this with less than half an hour of effort; even with those sources further expansion can be done (covering history, technique, advocates/performers, etc), and there are more sources available. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:19, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 19

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Taylor Mitchell, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages CBC and CTV.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:07, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

FYI

I just saw:

• Template:Did you know nominations/Isaac Hill
• Template:Did you know nominations/George E. Clymer

You might want to read through this ANI top to bottom. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 08:04, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Followup here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:09, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Also just saw Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/James Davis (printer)/archive1, so Hog Farm and Mike Christie might want to read up (I suggest starting here). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:27, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Judging from prose style I am pretty confident these are different people. Looks like Doug has not edited either Isaac Hill or George E. Clymer under his old login at least. I looked at my notes on that FAC and there are certainly prose issues but it wasn't as bad as Doug's prose tended to be. I think this sort of thing (weak prose/poor integration of research into an article) is quite common. If Doug does try to come back it'll be hard to spot, but this doesn't seem to be him. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:38, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Ah, looking at that ANI I see it's Gorval and Trahey you're concerned about. So you think Gwillhickers is just unaware? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:40, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

I specifically pinged them, and also linked the ANI at the talk page of Willis Fletcher Johnson (Gwil edited right behind Trahey and Gorval and apparently did not see the issues?), but got no response from any of them; I am more concerned that Gwil was a QPQ reviewer of Coldwell's DYKs, and yet have their own paraphrasing issues. DYK needs to get its house in order, as it looks to me like Nikkimaria is now doing. I haven't looked into what's gone on at GAN, but DYK QPQ has always raised questions for me. No wonder the daily errors report is filled with DYK issues. Why can't DYK just throttle back its volume and encourage real reviews, like Nikki's ? I also pinged you and HF because, since I don't do DYK or GAN, I'm unlikely to become aware if there is future activity; I only happened across this one because of Sybil Ludington hype on Facebook around the Fourth of July. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:11, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

I've never had anything to do with DYK, but I'm intermittently active at GAN. I'll keep an eye out. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:23, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

I think it would be helpful for someone to write up the limitations of Earwig for DYK - I've seen both nominators and reviewers there who assume that if Earwig doesn't flag anything there's no problem. Beyond that, I'm not sure how likely it is to throttle back or fundamentally change QPQ. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:40, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

DYK has been the source of these kinds of problems for as long as I've been editing; you'd think they'd eventually be shamed into doing something, after the number of similar debacles, but no ... anyway, I put out that alert, now done. Still shocked at the number of editors who defended this at the original ANIs. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:44, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Rex Wakely-Smith

Hello, My name is Lilly Taylor. Yesterday, I put some additional details into my great grandfather’s page. It appears you have removed these, I’d just like to know why? Kind regards, Lilly Taylor 78.146.130.140 (talk) 17:19, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't know who your great-grandfather is or what you added, but the problem may have been that your personal knowledge is not sufficient to support Wikipedia content. - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 17:24, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi Lilly. Generally speaking we don't name people's relatives unless they themselves are notable. This is particularly true for family members who are still alive and where reliable sourcing is not included. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:13, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

The big picture

Regarding this re-revert, I invite you to re-read the content of the paragraph of wp:QUO in which the link we are discussing appears. (And no, I am not 166.48.52.226.) - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 17:32, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Butwhatdoiknow, I have read it, and it motivated the change in question. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:09, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

I am sorry my message was not clear. What I meant to say is that the first paragraph of QUO recommends against edit warring over disputed text. Your re-revert - as opposed to adding a "disputed" tag" - appears (to me) to have violated the spirit of that recommendation. - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 20:40, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

The text advises against reverting during discussion. At the time of my edit, there had been no discussion for several days. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:44, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Right, the last thing that happened was my restoration revert, giving an explanation. The only reason there had been no discussion is that you had not replied (with an edit or talk page post). You seem to be saying that an editor can give themself permission to edit war by failing to discuss. I don't think that is the case. - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 21:05, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

That is untrue. I posted to the talk page shortly after your revert, and waited. Only after several days of no response did I restore the edit. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:08, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Forgive me, between travelling and our multipage discussion, I seems to have dropped a stitch on this. Here is the sequence: (1) January 7: you change the link with an edit summary of "wl." (2) January 15: I revert with edit summary containing a rationale. (3) January 17: your post to the talk page asking for more information. (4) January 20: your restoration revert.

Regarding (4), I wonder: did you first check my user contribution page to assure yourself that my silence of three days was the result of an affirmative choice (as opposed to things taking place in the real world)? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 21:30, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

No - while I appreciate you may have been busy, I have no way of knowing when or if you would return to a discussion, and I don't see a reason to hold up improvements indefinitely. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:42, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

You know all those times I've pinged you with "please reply" posts? I guess I'll stop doing that. If we're discussing something and you don't reply for three days then I'll apply the Nikkimaria rule and proceed with what I think is an improvement (even though I know that you don't agree). Thanks. That'll save me a lot of time. - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 21:55, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Butwhatdoiknow, if we've already discussed something at length, as is often the case when that happens, then that would not be the correct response. But that wasn't the case here. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:00, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

(1) What is your definition of "at length"?

(2) Why, when you know another editor opposes the change, does it matter whether there has been a lengthy discussion? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 17:10, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

(1) It's not a specific post or byte count, but more has the discussion started going around in circles and is it clear agreement is not going to be reached. Especially on issues where there is not a clear policy- or guideline-based reason to favour a particular argument, sometimes discussion simply reaches an impasse.

(2) Because that turning point is built into our policies and practices around consensus-building. In fact, you've been making that argument yourself around NOCON - that it applies when discussion has happened and has not reached consensus, not when discussion hasn't happened/is in progress. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:43, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Okay, so if an editor does not respond within three days then the other editor can make the edit they want to make UNLESS the two editors have discussed the issue at length and reached a state of no consensus. Do I have that right? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 19:09, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

There could have been a previous discussion among other editors, there could be an overriding policy that applies - lots of potential exceptions out there. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:35, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

To confirm: your general rule, subject to lots of potential exceptions and IAR, is "if an editor does not respond within four days then the other editor can proceed to do what they think is best." Right? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 17:47, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Because it is so dependent on circumstances, I wouldn't want to term that "my general rule". Why do you? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:31, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Because above you explained the edit we're discussion by saying "I posted to the talk page shortly after your revert, and waited. Only after several days of no response did I restore the edit." The only condition in that explanation is "several days of no response." You did not indicate any other circumstances. Were there other circumstances? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 20:28, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

That doesn't actually answer my question. I acknowledge that you are unhappy with how that interaction happened; I don't think continuing this particular discussion will do anything to resolve that. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:13, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Fair enough. But fair warning: following your example, if we're in the middle of a discussion and you don't reply for four days then - rather than checking to see whether you've been active and pinging you if you have - I'll just proceed to do what I feel is best. - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 15:05, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Except of course that's not what happened here - here you did not discuss at all. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:42, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Discussion can take place in edit summaries. In this case -

1. You made an edit with a summary of "wl." Omitting the fact that you were changing a wikilink.
2. I reverted with a summary of "restore link targeted to list of dispute/discussion tags (had been replaced by generic link to all dispute tags." So you knew I was contesting your change.
3. You posted to talk page. The post did not include a ping to me.
4. Four days went by during which, if you'd checked, you would have seen that I was not editing at all
5. You re-reverted

- Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 16:07, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

British Newspaper Archive

Hi Nikki. You approved my application for the British Newspaper Archive and I'm assuming that it went through well. Unfortunately, I don't know if it's working or not. I signed up for the website and it doesn't let me continue to search beyond the three free pages it gave me. I'm not sure if I did something wrong or if it didn't go through all the way. GamerPro64 04:29, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi GamerPro64, you should have gotten instructions via email? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:31, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

I see the issue. It went into my spam. Thanks. GamerPro64 04:32, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 54

The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes
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Daily Mail

Just out of curiosoty: When and why was the Daily Mail deemed an unreliable source? ₪ MIESIANIACAL 21:37, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi Miesianiacal, there are several major discussions linked from WP:DAILYMAIL outlining the issues. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:49, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

I see. Thank you. It's a bit of an odd conclusion to me; the Daily Mail seems to usually be quite accurate in its reporting of royal matters. But, I guess we can't say a source is reliable only for some topics and not for others. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 16:31, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Well we could - see for example the entries for Fox News on the same page. But you'd need to convince people at RSN of that, and to be frank I don't think that would happen. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:08, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Ben's Chili Bowl

Ben's Chili Bowl has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. I pinged you since you were the reviewer. Onegreatjoke (talk) 22:38, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians who have access to Miramar has been nominated for renaming

Category:Wikipedians who have access to Miramar has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Gonnym (talk) 07:55, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red in February 2023

Women in Red Feb 2023, Vol 9, Iss 2, Nos 251, 252, 255, 256, 257, 259 Online events: New: Alphabet run O & P | Black women | Justice | Folklore Continuing: Peace and Diplomacy (year-long initiative) | #1day1woman Tip of the month: Explore Wikipedia for all variations of the woman's name (birth name, married name, re-married name, pen name, nickname) Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Lajmmoore (talk) 07:28, 30 January 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

About the reason for your undoing my edit for the page "Nauru"

Hello, sir/madam. I noticed that you undid my edit for the page Nauru without a proper reason. I have undone your undoing. John Smith Ri (talk) 07:38, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi John Smith Ri, I did provide a reason: the information that you tagged as requiring a citation is already cited in the body of the article. Repeating the reference in the template is not needed. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:38, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians who have access to Baylor has been nominated for deletion

Category:Wikipedians who have access to Baylor has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:11, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians who have access to RSUK has been nominated for renaming

Category:Wikipedians who have access to RSUK has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:06, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians who have access to EBSCO has been nominated for merging

Category:Wikipedians who have access to EBSCO has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:18, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians who have access to IMF has been nominated for deletion

Category:Wikipedians who have access to IMF has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:32, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians who have access to OpenEdition has been nominated for deletion

Category:Wikipedians who have access to OpenEdition has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:41, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Germany

Nikkimaria since you're Canadian pls stop removing stuff from the germany page, i don't want to costantly change articles when reading pls revert you changes to early history Samuraiiscool (talk) 01:10, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi Samuraiiscool, as I said, please take your proposed addition to the talk page so it can be discussed and the back-and-forth can be avoided. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:11, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue 202, February 2023

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on translation and Eisenhower's armies Review essay: Catlemur on military museums in Athens

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 23:26, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Deleting Danielle DiLorenzo.

Hi Nikimaria,

What's up with you deleting my edit to add Danielle DiLorenzo on the Lynnfield High School page.

She's notable enough, she has been in multiple movies and was a runner-up on Survivor Panama and she played on the season Survivor Heroes vs Villains which is possibly the most acclaimed seasons they made. Most survivor winners have their own wikipedia page, and she was only 2 votes away from winning a season. She should be on this page unless if there is a copyright issue or something. I'm going to try to look up sources for her modeling, but I have sources with her acting career as well.

Thanks! Bigshowgunnoe (talk) 10:21, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi Bigshowgunnoe, the references that you've provided are not reliable - you need reliable sourcing both to support her notability and also that she attended that school before she can be included. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:45, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Angela Lansbury

Hi Nikkimaria. You removed Angela Lansbury from the FAC image/source check requests. Is this because you intend to do the source review yourself? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:20, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi Gog, Alanna the Brave did a source review - did you want another one? Nikkimaria (talk) 23:53, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

I had understood that to be a source spot check and a general review. I shall check with Alanna. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:25, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: January 2023

This Month in GLAM – Volume XIII, Issue I, January 2023 Headlines Albania report: Wikipedia Birthday in Tirana, Albania Belgium report: DESINGEL arts centre and Wikimedia platforms Brazil report: Open Midiateca: Licensing and analysis of collections of Midiateca Capixaba Colombia report: Let's celebrate public domain day 2023 Finland report: Photo walks for Wiki Loves Monuments and rephotography Indonesia report: Public Domain Day in Indonesia; #1Lib1Ref Campaign and Workshop Italy report: Wikimedia Italy's calls for free knowledge Netherlands report: Opening old books at Maastricht University Poland report: GLAM stepping into 2023; New “did you know” articles on the collection of Wawel Royal Castle Spain report: #1Lib1Ref Sweden report: Tekniska museet makes 3000 polar images available on Commons Switzerland report: Swiss GLAM Programme UK report: National Trust and cultural diversity USA report: Effie Kapsalis remembered; Mathematicians + Wikipedia; Wikipedia Day 2023; San Diego meetup Content Partnerships Hub report: Report of survey about Wikimedia content partnerships tools Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons report: View it! Editing Functionality: Final Update! Calendar: February's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

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Re:Disney family

The source in the background section is non-RS, see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 371#Houseofnames.com. The way it's currently written wrongly implies the family came to Ireland directly from France in the 12th century. Greenabean (talk) 21:19, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi Greenabean, if the existing source is not reliable, adding another unreliable source doesn't help the situation. Is there a reliable source available for this section? If no, we should remove it. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:14, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Joseph Janney Steinmetz

Hi, you reverted two edits of mine. I do not understand why:

• in one I added the template Template:Infobox_person/Wikidata. Is not correct this template?
• in other I added the external link Joseph Janney Steinmetz at Ancestry. Is not correct this source?

Davidhs0 (talk) 13:29, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi Davidhs0, in both cases user-generated genealogical records from Ancestry are not reliable sources. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:04, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Thanks so much for all the extra work you put into Boulton and Park article. It was—as always—much appreciated. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 18:56, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Cheers! Nikkimaria (talk) 19:04, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Wikipedians who have access to Royal Society Publishing

A tag has been placed on Category:Wikipedians who have access to Royal Society Publishing indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:02, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Rachmaninoff Spouse

Why did you undo my edit on Rachmaninoff spouse? Spouse is a valid field in the composer infobox.

Froglife94 (talk) 22:18, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi Froglife94], just because a parameter exists does not mean it must be used. Why do you believe this ought to be included for this particular case? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:17, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

"SOB issues" and country compositions

Hello Nikkimaria. I noticed that you removed longstanding and common details from the infoboxes of numerous countries under the pretext of "Resolving SOB issues". It is rather unclear to me what exactly "SOB issues" are, or how you are resolving them by removing longstanding details from these infoboxes, especially since you are not doing this to the infoboxes of every single sovereign country, only certain ones. I would appreciate if you could explain to me what "SOB issues" are, and how removing these details resolves these issues. Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 03:51, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi Vif12vf, SOB refers to MOS:SOB. Resolving the complex linking helps improve usability for readers. Additionally since the majority of countries are unitary it's not a particularly useful distinction; however, if you feel it's important to include that term, we can simply leave it unlinked. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:54, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for a quick response. I agree that unitary state might not be the most unique distinction, but neither is parliamentary system, also some of the countries in question are federations, which is less common. Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 03:59, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Religion

Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Jobas Moxy- 13:58, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Mahler edit

Hello, the quote well fitted the heading re the period of neglect of Mahler's music. In fact it showed that British commentators went further than the article ranged: not just "faint praise" and "condescension" but more overt dismissal. It is a very strong polemic indeed - "paucity of ideas" - that is spectacularly at odds with more recent appraisals of Mahler's music, and demonstrates how profoundly opinions about an artist's work can change over time, the point being made overall. I sourced the quote from the encyclopaedia. I refined the existing text as the discussion should have specified it was talking about his compositions, as his conducting was regarded very highly at the time. I feel it is valuable contribution to Wikipedia and don't really understand the issue. Walton22 (talk) 19:29, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi Walton22, it is indeed a strong polemic; my concern is whether it is in fact representative, a significant viewpoint that ought to be represented. You've commented elsewhere that this source has low visibility, which suggests not. However, I'd suggest taking this conversation to the article's talk page as a centralized venue for discussion by not only us but other editors as well. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:44, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Hello Nikkimaria, I may take your advice re article talk page, good idea: certainly I don't want to get into a revert/undo cycle with you. But to complete the conversation here: that section of the article was presenting a range of views on a spectrum regarding historical "neglect" of Mahler's music, by way of a series of isolated examples of stated commentaries. An extreme view is useful to mark out the breadth of the spectrum of detracting views. No view by definition is "representative", since there is a spectrum, but the fact that this view existed at all to the visible extent of its publication in a 2000 page encyclopaedia, is worth noting for the extent of contrast with the vastly different later (contemporary) historical perspectives. But if I cannot convince you, I will either drop it or try article talk page. Walton22 (talk) 21:12, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

The relevant policy is WP:DUE: if there are many sources saying something and you use an example quote from one to demonstrate that, that is a different situation than having only one source saying something and quoting that. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:53, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

There are many sources in this period saying that Mahler's music is, let's say, poor; this is the point of the section. Each example already given there shows only one source giving that particular take on "poor". Each viewpoint is a unique twist on a view that overall clearly does have due weight to cite. There's also only one source saying this: "Composer-conductor Julius Harrison described Mahler's symphonies as "interesting at times, but laboriously put together" and as lacking creative spark.". This is also a strong polemic but left standing in the article. My source is a 2000-page 1954 encyclopaedia. Significant resources were clearly brought to bear to publish that view at the time. Walton22 (talk) 22:10, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

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Joseph Smith article - Talk page comments

I just want to come by and thank you for your constructive edit on the Joseph Smith talk page as we prepare it for FAC. The perspective of a “native” of the FAC page is very helpful. Please feel free to come by any time if you find any further issues that we can improve. Trevdna (talk) 03:39, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi Trevdna, no worries. So you're aware, each FAC needs to pass an image and source review, and first-time nominators need an additional "spotcheck" which assesses verifiability and avoidance of copyvio/close paraphrasing. The first two of these in particular you can prep for yet - for example, if you add importScript('User:Ucucha/HarvErrors.js'); to your js page it would highlight the remaining harv errors for you. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:47, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Birth Country of Ludwig van Beethoven

I understand your concern about clarity and concise formatting, but it simply does not apply to what you have reverted. Your new edit on the page is not only a larger file size which directly contradicts your note, but also oddly omits the birth country of Ludwig van Beethoven. The full name of his country of birth is 19 letters (22 if you include spaces), and I don't believe Beethoven should be spared a mention of his country of his birth just because we're issuing an arbitrary order for concise text.

If you have any more valid reasons for your removal, I would be happy to listen. Or if you concede that you have indeed made a lapse of judgement, we can review together my edit and if there are any other issues we can deal with them. Nikolai Gennadievich Nazarov (talk) 15:32, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

It's not "my" note; it was added by another editor to alert people to the need to raise the issue on the talk page if they'd like to add something, because previous conversations have not reached consensus to do so. If you feel you have a convincing rationale you're welcome to pursue that option. File size is not one. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:58, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red March 2023

Women in Red Mar 2023, Vol 9, Iss 3, Nos 251, 252, 258, 259, 260, 261 Online events: New: Geofocus Mediterranean | Art + Activism | Alphabet run Q & R Continuing: Peace and Diplomacy (year-long initiative) | #1day1woman | Folklore See also: #Visible Wiki Women Wikimedia challenge to add more images of women to Commons Tip of the month: Mobile phone readers may only see the article "lead" – take some time to make it shine! Include something to keep people reading. Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Lajmmoore (talk) 12:54, 26 February 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

consensus doesn't overrule copyvio issues

Right, but doesn't consensus decide whether an alleged copyright violation is an actual copyright violation? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 06:33, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

That's not what was proposed, and not a good idea. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:02, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

From your experience how is a disputed allegation of "suspected" copyright violation resolved? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 17:11, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Depends on the situation - can be removed presumptively or taken for specialist review. What we don't want to be doing is telling people that they can get "consensus to include" in such a situation. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:53, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

I can see that having a specialist ruling would resolve the dispute (NOCON). But presumptive removal strikes me as a temporary state pending a resolution (QUO). Or am I missing something? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 15:51, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

It could be QUO, if it's a case where someone adds copyvio and is then reverted. But often copyvio content is longstanding before being found, making the version with copyvio the status quo. For that matter, even in an addition-revert situation why would it be temporary? If I add something and you revert it because you're concerned it might be copyvio, we discuss, and we reach a no-consensus state, the content stays out. The other situation that often arises with presumptive removal is when the editor who added the content has confirmed copyvio issues. In that case the resolution is removal even when a specific contribution can't be conclusively shown to be copyvio (eg the source is unavailable). Nikkimaria (talk) 02:33, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Regarding wp:QUO, copyright violation is a listed exception to the general rule of leaving existing material in place.

Regarding wp:NOCON, the result is as you say: "we reach a no-consensus state, the content stays out."

I attempted to phrase this as "the content is removed unless and until there is a consensus to include it." You have objected that this language can be read to allow a local consensus to restore material that violates a copyright.

From what you've told me, it sounds like we could say something along the lines of "the content is removed until and unless there is a determination that the content is not a violation."

Am I on the right track? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 17:30, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

I do not think it is a good idea to make that suggestion, because it opens up the possibility of someone saying "well I've determined that it isn't", even if it is. What is wrong with the existing text? Nikkimaria (talk) 18:07, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Regarding your concern, we can certainly improve the proposal. How about "a determination by a specialist that the content is not a violation"? Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 19:18, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Why not stick with what we already have, which avoids introducing new terms that we need to define (who qualifies as a "specialist")? Nikkimaria (talk) 19:20, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I hit "Publish" before I added an answer to the "why change?" question. Here's my answer: The problem with the current text is that it doesn't say what happens when a discussion ends without consensus. Sure, a suspected copyvio "is removed immediately," but when and how is it restored if it turns out not to be a copyvio?

Regarding reference to a specialist, you're the one who introduced the concept (above). Is there no page we could link to with more information about the "taken for specialist review" process? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 19:29, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

There are plenty of pages that discuss various copyright processes, but this is still the simplest answer: if a discussion ends without consensus, the stuff is removed/kept out, and that's what this section should say. The question you're asking isn't about that case, it's about the case where a determination is reached. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:33, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Okay, let's work on "if a discussion ends without consensus, the stuff is removed/kept out." - 15:39, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

How about: "Material suspected of copyright violation is removed immediately and not restored when a discussion ends without consensus"? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 15:39, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

How about just tacking on "and not restored when a discussion ends without consensus" to what's already there? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:02, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Works for me. Thanks for hanging in there to reach a consensus. Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 15:30, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

F Company, 310th Infantry Regiment (United States)

Thanks for the edit and for cleaning up the Article; it is much appreciated. One of your edits I did reverse and reinstate was the three poems by Sgt. Howard R. Barnes, I moved them down to the bottom under "Platoon Photos." I think it adds to the Article, and it wouldn't sit right with me not to add it somewhere. As for the other edits, thank you very much; I kept teetering back and forth on whether to keep or remove the Enlisted Roster. Smearsett21 (talk) 04:30, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi Smearsett21, are those poems either freely licensed or in the public domain? If so, they might be better suited to Wikiquote or Wikisource. If not, unfortunately we can't host them here. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:32, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

I would assume it's free to use, the poems are in the book written by the Company members, there is no copyright, or publisher for the book, it was entirely written, printed and distributed by its members. Smearsett21 (talk) 04:38, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi Smearsett21, that in itself wouldn't make it free to use. When was this book published? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:41, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

It was distributed to the Company members in 1947. Smearsett21 (talk) 04:44, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Hm. "Published" has a particular meaning in US copyright law, and if it was distributed only to members I'm not sure that would qualify. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:47, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

I have been trying to reason whether it is in the public domain since it was really never published or even copyrighted; I have yet to settle on an answer. Smearsett21 (talk) 04:51, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

We usually go by the Cornell copyright chart; if as you suggest it was never published, it seems unlikely it would be free at this point. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:54, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Can that be definitively applied to this book? The book lists no author or creator. It lists the Commanding officer at the time of creation, the editors, the soldier who did the cartoons, and "members of Fox Company" as "staff." Smearsett21 (talk) 05:01, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

If they produced this as part of their official duties, there's an exemption for that. Otherwise, yes, it would apply, regardless of how authorship was credited. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:03, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting. But wouldn't this warrant an exemption because it was created as a "diary," not even "book," and was to be distributed to its members without the intention to sell, copyright, or publish? And who would the rights belong to if it was under copyright laws? The surviving members? Smearsett21 (talk) 05:16, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

No - actually in some ways it's the opposite, see for example this analysis which discusses some never-intended-to-be-published writings. As to who holds the copyright, unfortunately being an orphan work can also make it harder to use it. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:20, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

"Unpublished works are those which have not been distributed in any manner", so is it actually considered published? With no copyright? Smearsett21 (talk) 05:22, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Where are you getting that quote from? Nikkimaria (talk) 05:24, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Copyright Alliance. You can find it by searching "What is the difference between “Published” vs. “Unpublished” works, why does it matter, and how does the difference relate to Online vs. Print publishing?"

And then this definition from Cornell "Published works refers to works that have “copies or phonorecords of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease or lodging” https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/published_work

Would this definition make the book a published work? Smearsett21 (talk) 05:33, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

That source indicates that "publication occurs on the date on which copies of the work are first made available to the public". In this case, if I understand you correctly, the distribution was to members only - ie not a publication. See page 6 here. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:40, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Would the men it was distributed to not be considered the public? It was in 1947, well after the war ended, and the Company was disbanded. All members got a book, so well over 400 copies were printed and distributed. And it says "limited purpose and without the right of diffusion, reproduction, distribution, or sale.

The book was intended for distribution and diffusion.

This is a definition from https://dictionary.findlaw.com/definition/limited-publication.html

"the communication of a work (as a text) to a selected group with the express or implied exclusion of the public and with common-law copyright thus preserved compare general publication"

If the purpose of the book was to inform, and remember the Company's history, and doesn't exclude the public, wouldn't this make "White v. Kimmell, 193 F.2d 744, 746-47 (9th Cir. 1952)" void? Smearsett21 (talk) 05:54, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

The membership, even after disbanding, would be a "definitely selected group". What leads you to believe it was intended to be distributed beyond that group? Nikkimaria (talk) 05:56, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

It was written as a "Combat Diary" and was dedicated to the dead, and dedicated to preserving the Company's history. And the only way to preserve ones history is to distribute it beyond that group, to kids, grandkids or strangers who purchase the book. They probably had zero intention to copyright, that might be the reason no one person is pinned as the author or creator.

" a limited publication is the distribution of copies of a work to a definitely selected group with a limited purpose and without the right of diffusion, reproduction, distribution, or sale. A limited publication is not considered a distribution to the public and, therefore, is not publication."

This book didn't have a limited purpose, and anyone who owns the book can sell it, or give it to someone, or spread the history involved with the book. That's the reason people could purchase the book, if they ever showed up online. Smearsett21 (talk) 06:13, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

I get that. The issue is that copyright applies by default, unless explicitly released, and the fact that the work has been resold or redistributed doesn't necessarily mean that the right to do so was explicitly granted. Nikkimaria (talk) 06:16, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

I get that, what would have to be removed from the article if the book was copyrighted? Just the poems? Smearsett21 (talk) 06:20, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

I believe so - there's nothing else directly copied from it? Nikkimaria (talk) 06:22, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Nope. There is three "speeches" that are pulled from the book, but they are cited and referenced. Smearsett21 (talk) 06:30, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Also, I was wondering how I can fix the " This Article may contain an excessive amount of intricate detail that may interest only a particular audience." is there is anyway to improve, or fix the problem? Or will that always be a tag? Smearsett21 (talk) 06:35, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Okay, then yes, just the poems.

With regards to the tag: it need not always be there. The article at the moment includes content which is not typical for company articles, such as biographies of specific members (which could be split to separate articles, a list, or removed). I'd suggest taking a look at some of the FAs on military units to see what type and volume of content is usually included. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:43, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the response, would it work better if I cut the list down into just notable members? Due to very little information being known about them, I thought the added section in the article would work. Smearsett21 (talk) 03:00, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Even in that case I'd advise a list article, if there's not enough for standalone bios. But you could also ask at Milhist talk if anyone has any suggestions? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:09, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

These are the given examples of limited publications.

Sending copies of a manuscript to prospective publishers in an effort to secure a book contract does not constitute publication (regardless of whether the copies are returned).

Distributing copies of a research paper that are intended solely for the use of the participants at a seminar generally does not constitute publication if there was no right of further diffusion, reproduction, distribution, or sale by the participants.

Distributing copies of a speech that are intended solely to assist the press in covering that event has been deemed a limited publication under the Copyright Act of 1909 (i.e., not a publication). However, under the current statutory definition, offering to distribute copies to different news outlets for the purpose of further distribution, public performance, or public display could constitute publication. Smearsett21 (talk) 06:16, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Daily Mail

Hi, just saw you said Daily Mail is not a credible news source - is this an actual policy, or can you clear up my confusion? In either case, if you could leave the information intact while I'm in the process of construction today that'd be great- and then I can find replacements for the Daily Mail links if that's actually necessary. LauraIngallsEvenWilder (talk) 05:23, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi LauraIngallsEvenWilder , you absolutely can't leave controversial information sourced to DM on a biography of a living person - those are subject to a higher sourcing standard than regular articles, and DM is deprecated. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:24, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the link - that does clear it up. I'll try to replace/remove anything DM - please just give me a little breathing space so I'm not losing information as I hit edit conflict edits. Much thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LauraIngallsEvenWilder (talk • contribs) 05:32, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks again!

TY so much for your help w my Wikipedia Library troubles but I wanted to let you know I've already found two free-use pre-1926 photos of artists thanks to the yearbooks. I promise to use it all responsibly and for the greater good etc. Seriously tho thanks for your work. jengod (talk) 18:12, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Question on James Anderson page.

you undid something and listed reason as an unreliable source. Was that something I did? If so can you tell me which source was unreliable so i don't use it again? Blitzfan51 (talk) 16:15, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi Blitzfan51, it wasn't anything you did; you can see the change here. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:31, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

OK thanks. :) Blitzfan51 (talk) 00:53, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Quick image question

Hi Nikkimaria, hope you are well. As you are a regular image reviewer and understand such things far better than me :-) I wondered if I could confirm my understanding of an image status issue? If a photograph was taken in the 19th century, the author of the photographer is unknown, but I can't find any evidence of it being published anywhere prior to the 1980s, that isn't a free image? It's a UK image if that makes a difference. Thanks!! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:04, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi ChrisTheDude, being a UK image may make a difference here. If the image was Crown copyright, the UK government has stated that expiration of Crown copyright applies worldwide. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:19, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

It's the image on this webpage. It was taken in 1894, so nearly 130 years ago, but after extensive searching the earliest place I have found so far where it was published is a book published in 1980..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:15, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

All right, so unlikely to be Crown. Any insight on the context of the photo? Is this likely to be a press publication vs team memorabilia? Nikkimaria (talk) 15:52, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

I've had a look through the various newspapers of the day available on newspapers.com and the British Newspaper Archive and can't find it published anywhere (I think, TBH, that printing photos was beyond the newspaper technology of the time) so I would have to presume it just sat in the club's own archives until the first book on the history of the club was published in 1980...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:00, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Ah. Unfortunately then pending more information I think you'd be correct that it's non-free, or at least cannot be confirmed to be free. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:04, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Delicious Party Pretty Cure episode list

we have been using summaries of delicious party pretty cure from this page we just copy and paste from https://prettycure.fandom.com/wiki/Delicious_Party%E2%99%A1Pretty_Cure_episodes and BaldiBasicsFan says its a copyright violation Ckng9000 (talk) 16:45, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

• It is considered a copyright violation. Read WP:COPYVIO. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 19:26, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

We have to cite that website to make it not copyright because we copy the Japanese title, air date, English title from https://prettycure.fandom.com/wiki/Delicious_Party%E2%99%A1Pretty_Cure_episodes Ckng9000 (talk) 20:30, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

If you cite the page its not considered copyright Ckng9000 (talk) 20:33, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Copying simple data (episode names and air date) would not be a copyright violation, but this particular source is not reliable. You should also be aware that simply citing something that is a copyright violation would not make it not a copyright violation. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:00, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

if that website is not a reliable source then the summary is not copyright because its just like Wikipedia's because any can edit it. Ckng9000 (talk) 04:19, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Those are two different things. A source can be out of copyright and reliable, or in copyright and not reliable. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:33, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Soaring Sky! Pretty Cure

I have been trying to create new article that has only episodes but BaldiBasicsFan keeps on redirecting it to main page. I was wondering if you can make it work. Here is the link:

Soaring Sky! Pretty Cure Ckng9000 (talk) 04:29, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

If you two cannot agree on the matter, the best thing for you to do would be to pursue some kind of dispute resolution. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:34, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

he says an new episode list should be a least 50 episodes or 3 seasons, I have seen some episode lists that have 12 episodes in a new page and he says the episodes in the episode list is too short and it shouldn't be a recent anime that is going on right now. I told him I watched Kirakira PreCure a la Mode and this guy CureGuziczka created an episode list before it even aired

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ki CureGuziczka Kirakira PreCure a la Mode (talk | contribs) at 11:20, 30 January 2017 (←Created page with '{{DISPLAYTITLE:List of ''Kirakira PreCure a la Mode'' episodes}} {{Infobox television season | italic_title = no | season_name = Kirakira PreCure a la Mode...'). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision. Ckng9000 (talk) 05:20, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

If that minimum number of episodes/seasons is based on a particular guideline, you could also discuss whether the guideline should be changed. I'm not familiar with such a guideline so you'd need to ask them what their statement was based on. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:22, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

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British Newspaper Archive

Hi there. Firstly, thanks for looking at and approving my access to the BNA so quickly. However, I have been unable to access it. I left a message on the application history page, but as there is no answer, I wonder if it is not monitored. The pages is: [2]. I am happy for you to email me by the address listed on that page, if that is easier. Thanks Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 14:14, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Replied there. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:08, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Many thanks for your help and patience. All working now. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 21:45, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue 203, March 2023

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hog Farm on the Trans-Mississippi Theater of the American Civil War

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This Month in GLAM: February 2023

This Month in GLAM – Volume XIII, Issue II, February 2023 Headlines Albania report: I Edit Wikipedia Online Campaign 2023 Belgium report: Public Domain Day Belgium 2023 Brazil report: GLAM-Wiki initiatives in Brazil spark academic investigation Croatia report: Activities during first two months of 2023 Indonesia report: Launching of Wikisource Loves Manuscripts; Bincang GLAM continues Italy report: New project and collaboration in February Kosovo report: I Edit Wikipedia Online Campaign 2023 New Zealand report: Wikidata and the Biodiversity Heritage Library, Wellington WikiCon 2023 and Auckland Museum local suburb project funding Poland report: The European GLAM Coordinators online meet-up; GLAM-Wiki workshop at the Wawel Royal Castle State Art Collection; Wikimedians-in-residence online meet up Sweden report: 100 000 Bildminnen; Report from The Association of Swedish Museums; Wikipedia for all of Sweden; ArkDes edit-a-thons UK report: In Memoriam Jo Pugh / Cultural Diversity USA report: Black History Month and More Wiki Loves Living Heritage report: Wiki Loves Living Heritage launches 17 March 1pm UTC WMF GLAM report: Gender, language, and living heritage events in collaboration with affiliates Calendar: March's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

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David Bowie

Hi, regarding your edit here [3] – I've looked at the template documentation, and I can't see where it says "no boroughs or neighbourhoods" or "only city names". Can you point it out, please? Cheers. Bretonbanquet (talk) 15:01, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

"Place of birth: city, administrative region, country." Nikkimaria (talk) 21:44, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

So, what if the subject was born in a town or village? Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:47, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

If you're uncertain of how to interpret that I'd suggest asking at the template's talk page. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:48, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

It doesn't say "no boroughs or neighbourhoods" though, does it? London is an administrative area as well as a city. Why does your interpretation trump mine? Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:59, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

If you feel your version should be substituted, I'd suggest proposing that at the template's talk page. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:06, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

That doesnt answer either of my questions, but your refusal to address them certainly answers the second one. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:15, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

The answer to your questions are (1) it doesn't need to - it also doesn't specify we should omit "The World, The Milky Way, The Universe", and (b) because you're the one proposing a change to the status quo. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:10, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Pointing this out seems perfunctory, but the difference is obviously that "The world..." etc would be a ridiculous addition which no sane person would propose, and would never be considered necessary in template advice. On the other hand, the addition of a district of 78,000 people within an administrative region of 9 million people is perfectly reasonable, yet no requirement to omit it is mentioned. I assume a hamlet with a population of 40 would be considered vital enough to include while a London Borough with a population of over 300,000 would be deemed insufficiently significant. It is an utterly illogical interpretation of what is, admittedly, a very poorly worded piece of advice. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:31, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Again, if you think it's "poorly worded" and that your preference is "perfectly reasonable", go propose it. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:33, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

I will. We're here because of your interpretation of that undeniably poorly worded advice. In the absence of any meaningful defence of it, there's no reason to continue. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:47, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

• Danny Aiello – born in "Manhattan, New York, U.S."
• Lee Bryant – ditto.
• Ron Perlman – ditto.
• James Whitmore Jr. – ditto.
• Donald Trump – born in "Queens, New York City, U.S."
• Jon Favreau – ditto.
• Bob Costas – ditto.
• Dina Meyer – ditto.
• Tony Danza – born in "Brooklyn, New York, U.S."
• Jerry Seinfeld – ditto.
• Mae West – ditto.
• Wolfman Jack – ditto.
• Lauren Bacall – born in "The Bronx, New York City, U.S."
• Neil Simon – ditto.
• Lee J. Cobb – ditto.
• Dutch Schultz – ditto.

The five NYC boroughs (each of whose populations outnumber many "cities"*) are often geographically separated by water (Manhattan's an island; Brooklyn and Queens, with over half NYC's population between them, are on Long Island), and culturally different (e.g. "Queens is the most ethnically diverse county in the United States and the most diverse urban area in the world"), enough to have accents named after them (e.g. Brooklynese, vs. Bronx), and famous individuals like the above examples remain associated with their boroughs of origin, not just NYC overall... so the borough is relevant detail... which you advocate removing, and apparently sometimes do remove, from infoboxes. Cf. the topics of Category:People from Manhattan; Category:Writers from Manhattan; Category:People from Queens, New York; Category:Musicians from Queens, New York‎; Category:People from Brooklyn; Category:Musicians from Brooklyn; Category:People from the Bronx; Category:Writers from the Bronx; Category:Musicians from the Bronx‎; etc.
* As do boroughs of London; Barnet by itself has more population than the 11th-largest city in the UK, Cardiff; Kensington and Chelsea (the London borough with the smallest population) more than the 38th, Oxford; and Bowie's/Brixton's borough, Lambeth, more than the 15th, Coventry. Reason enough to apply precision/accuracy. Cf. infoboxes of Pearl Mackie, Peter Hawkins, Danny Kirwan, and Tony Sewell, Baron Sewell of Sanderstead. [@Bretonbanquet and Nikkimaria:] – .Raven  ^.talk 17:27, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

WP:PRECISION is an article titling guideline and WP:ACCURATE is an essay on technical language; neither is particularly relevant here. Nor is a list of articles that do a particular thing evidence that that is a thing that should be done. But as I said above, if you feel you have such evidence, go propose a change. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:36, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

A change to the template documentation ("Place of birth: city, administrative region, country") does not seem as necessary as a change to how narrowly to read it:

• At the smallest level, you avoided saying how "city" should be filled in for someone born in a town or village. IRL form fields titled "City" are routinely expected to be filled in with the town or village name in that case; IOW "city" is not literally meant to exclude all other sizes of local government.
• Likewise "administrative region", if you follow that link, takes you to where the 2nd paragraph states:

  Usually, countries have several levels of administrative division. The common names for the principal (largest) administrative divisions are: states (i.e. "subnational states", rather than sovereign states), provinces, lands, oblasts, governorates, cantons, prefectures, counties, regions, departments, and emirates. These, in turn, are often subdivided into smaller administrative units known by names such as circuits, counties, comarcas, raions, județe, or districts, which are further subdivided into municipalities, communes or communities constituting the smallest units of subdivision (the local governments).  [underlines added]

• And even "country" can have multiple meanings, as that same template documentation declares:

  ... for United Kingdom locations, the constituent countries of the UK are sometimes used instead, when more appropriate in the context.

So the narrowest possible reading of the terms "city, administrative region, country" is disavowed in that template.

Brixton is itself a district, which per the above is not even "the smallest unit[] of subdivision"; it hosts the civic center of the London Borough of Lambeth one level up from there, as well as "Lambeth Town Hall" a.k.a. "Brixton Town Hall". It has a greater population than 17 of the USA's state capitals. Clearly not too small a place to cite as a birthplace; thumping the narrowest sense of "city" seems senseless here. – .Raven  ^.talk 01:03, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

But per your suggestion, I've created the section Template talk:Infobox person#How narrowly to read "city" of birth/death? – .Raven  ^.talk 01:24, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Wild Wild West Gadgets

Hi there, It was suggested that this bloated section (which I have no vested interest in) be moved to that fandom page. The sourcing apparently comes from citations of the episode that features the gadget. Some folks had put a lot of effort into compiling that list, and it sat on the Wild Wild West page for years without the references/citations being flagged. Wondering, why now?Plummer (talk) 01:37, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

It really should have been flagged much sooner, but I suppose now is when it happened to be noticed. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:03, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 55

The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes
Issue 55, January – February 2023

• New bundle partners:
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• 1Lib1Ref January report
• Spotlight: EDS SmartText Searching

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --12:45, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Fair use advice

Hi Nikki, I'm looking for your advice as an FAC image reviewer. I'm writing an article about an incident in which a man was shot because he was mistaken for another man. Neither of the men was a public figure and the incident was 40 years ago. One is now deceased. Would a non-free image of each for side-by-side comparison be acceptable? And secondarily, if it was two images in one file, would I need separate fair-use rationales for each? The image I'm thinking of is in this piece, though the page gives no information about the origins of the images. Thanks for your help, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:15, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi HJ, if you're putting it up as a single file you should be able to get away with a single fair-use rationale. You'd want to include in the rationale why the side-by-side approach is valuable, particularly why a more recent photo of the non-deceased person wouldn't serve the same purpose if one could be found, and anything you can dig up about the origins/copyright of both. But it seems reasonably justifiable. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:35, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your help, Nikki! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 10:00, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Clarinet

Why did you revert the recent edit to Clarinet? Your only W:edit summary was "previous was correct" but the edit somehow incorrect? I would appreciate your input, thanks. —GoldRingChip 11:44, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi GoldRingChip, the edit introduced inconsistencies - eg on one occasion it changed an edition statement to "2nd" but on others left it as "Second". It also didn't seem to provide any benefit at all, other than perhaps the addition of "musical" to "instrument" which makes more sense to do at first appearance. Can you explain why you think the edit was an improvement? Nikkimaria (talk) 13:10, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Montmartre and 'rm OR/non-RS'?

Thank you for your edits to Most Serene Republic of Montmartre! I agree with, and am grateful for, almost all your changes (unwikilinking dates, etc.) — but I would appreciate clarification on your removal of most of the last paragraph, which you marked "rm OR/non-RS".

(1) I cited existing sources to support the statements there, didn't originate the facts... just the phrasing used to discuss them.

(2) When did 'Find a Grave' become "non-RS"? We have a template for it (which I used)! And it has a photo of the gravestone, whose details match the online text.

Please explain. – _•Raven  ^.talk 00:54, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi .Raven, see the entry for that site at WP:RSP - it includes links to a number of the community discussions. The OR concern is the bit about is this or is this not the same person - if we don't have sourcing to support that it is in fact the same person, it really doesn't belong there. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:57, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

That was the point of my saying (last sentence in the text you removed), "Whether this is the same person is as uncertain as the borders and status of the Most Serene Federal Republic of Montmartre." Though Richmond's failure to renew his beloved trademark, combined with the match of full name, rough birth year (within a year), and place (NY), make things look not good. He is also not among the currently listed tenants of that building. But it's always possible the records are incomplete, or Richmond used a 'stage name', or, or, or....

WP:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 326#Find A Grave has the comment "I would say that information like dates of birth /and death can be reputable, but only if a tombstone is included (which often only includes years of death and birth but no specific dates)." And here a tombstone WAS included... which shows the full dates! – _•Raven  ^.talk 01:13, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

I appreciate you said we don't know. But since we don't know, we should leave it out, rather than just throw in a disclaimer. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:36, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Pending definite confirmation, fair enough. – _•Raven  ^.talk 01:57, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria: Perhaps still not "definite" enough for your exacting standards, but:
(1) In 1957 a Barry Alan Richmond directed a play for the Gilbert and Sullivan Society of Brandeis — ("Brandeis G&S". Boston Globe. May 1, 1957. p. 30. Retrieved March 21, 2023 – via Newspapers.com.)
(2) [Traditionally Jewish] Brandeis put a Barry Alan Richmond in its "In Memoriam: Class of 1956" slideshow for its 60th Reunion in 2016 — ("In Memoriam: Class of 1956 (from 60th Reunion)" (PDF). Brandeis. June 2016. p. 48. Retrieved March 21, 2023.)
So it seems increasingly likely this is the same person as both the gravestone with Hebrew text and the stage director Barry Alan Richmond who's featured in the Montmartre article. I wish it weren't so. I'd have loved to chat with him sometime. – _•Raven  ^.talk 04:17, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

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Newfoundland

Hi @Nikkimaria, I noticed that you deleted most of an editor's recent contributions under Newfoundland and Labrador#Theatre. I have undone your edit since the scale of destructive change is unwarranted. I am curious what you felt was undue so we can opt for a constructive edit instead. Thanks. Utl jung (talk) 14:19, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi Utl jung, I notice that you have been reverted by another editor as well, so wanted to make you aware of WP:ONUS as well as WP:3RR. Will comment more substantively on the content at article talk. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:35, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

McFarland

Hi Nikkimaria. Thanks for approving my TWL McFarland application. How long does it usually take for McFarland to approve things on their end? I still haven't heard anything from them and wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. Cheers, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:16, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi Extraordinary Writ, if you haven't seen anything in another week or so (be sure to check spam), let me know. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:22, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

All the Light We Cannot See

I have placed this article up for peer review for a future FAC, but no one has responded in over a month. I was wondering if you could help with the peer review considering you listed "novel" in your entry in the Volunteers list and your are a FAC mentor. Lazman321 (talk) 16:32, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

The Live Ghost (1934)

Thank you for looking over and making adjustments to my recent additions to this film short's page. Have a great weekend. Strudjum (talk) 17:33, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

NPG controversy

Hello, Nikkimaria. I'd like to ask you about your opinions regarding the NPG controversy. Is it acceptable for Wikipedia articles to used images derived from the NPG? I was planning on using File:King Henry II from NPG.jpg, but seeing as the copyright situation is somewhat fuzzy, I would like to hear from an image expert before making any changes. Thank you kindly, Unlimitedlead (talk) 02:11, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi Unlimitedlead, the short answer is, if the underlying work is 2D and in the public domain, it can be used. This is especially true if you want to upload locally, since English Wikipedia only requires that works be PD in the US (versus Commons which also requires country of origin), and under US law reproduction of a 2D work does not garner a new copyright. Even on Commons that approach is generally adopted. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:30, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red April 2023

Women in Red Apr 2023, Vol 9, Iss 4, Nos 251, 252, 262, 263, 264, 265, 266 Online events: New: Gender studies | Health | Dance | Alphabet run S & T | Books by women Continuing: Peace and Diplomacy (year-long initiative) | #1day1woman | See also: Women in Red is supporting Every Book Its Reader through our Books by women event. Tip of the month: When writing about a book, check WP:NBOOK for notability, then see MOS:NOVEL, WP:NONFICTION or WP:POETRYSTANDARDS for guidance. Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

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WikiTree Template

Hello, I noticed you removed several of the WikiTree templates I added recently. My understanding of its use is the following: To comply with WP:ELNO, only place in External links section if the website contains unique information not already mentioned and cited in the body of the article and is not a WP:COPYLINK violation. Remove from External links if WikiTree is already cited in main body, if burial information is provided in main body by a more reliable source, or if the page contains any unlicensed copyrighted information (e.g., professional portrait photography or copies of obituaries from a newspaper).

Can you please explain to me what the issue is? Thanks! Turninghearts (talk) 14:25, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi Turninghearts, that template was previously deleted - I'd suggest having a look through some of the issues raised there, as well as in the more recent External Links noticeboard discussion. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:58, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 03 April 2023

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Congratulations from the Military History Project

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		On behalf of the Military History Project, I am proud to present the WikiChevrons for participating in 20 reviews between January and March 2023. Hawkeye7 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 19:47, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

April songs

my story today

thank you --

The Bugle: Issue 204, April 2023

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D on the Australian War Memorial and the South China Sea raid, Hawkeye7 on the 1999 East Timor intervention

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 21:30, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Barnstar for you!

		The Original Barnstar
		Thank you for this link, which you revealed at the FAC for Edith of Wilton. You have saved a poor man's life, I tell you. You are a godsend from Heaven, Nikkimaria. In gratitude, Unlimitedlead (talk) 02:16, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Ha! No problem. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:18, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you

I wanted to thank you for your comments on the Li Rui FA review. I appreciate your assistance in getting it to the state it's in today! —Ganesha811 (talk) 14:46, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: March 2023

This Month in GLAM – Volume XIII, Issue III, March 2023 Headlines Albania report: WikiGap Tirana 2023, Albania Argentina report: Starting the year at WMAR Australia report: Know My Name edit-a-thon at the National Gallery of Australia Brazil report: Wiki Loves Pará, Women's month and a huge upload for biologists Estonia report: From Ruhnu to Vääna a.k.a. Winterspring in WMEE France report: Residency at the Brittany Museum Indonesia report: Javanese Wikisource Competition; 5 More Bincang GLAMs; GLAM Socialization to University of Sriwijaya Italy report: GLAM Spring Kosovo report: Wikivoyage Edit-a-thon in Istog New Zealand report: Auckland War Memorial Museum Local Suburb Project updates Poland report: GLAM meet-ups, Wikiresidencies and GLAM partners contributiong to editing contest Serbia report: GLAM in March Sweden report: Photo memories from three industrial towns; Update from the archives; ArkDes edit-a-thons Switzerland report: Swiss GLAM Programme UK report: Khalili Foundation USA report: Projects and activities in March Wikidata report: Mismatch Finder: Resolving Mismatches in Wikidata’s 100 Million Items Wiki Loves Living Heritage report: The Ethics of Open Sharing Calendar: April's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

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There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.Storye book (talk) 10:45, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Ben Viljoen

Dear Nikkimaria,

Thanks for your interest in this general. Why did you remove valuable information, with photos of his tomb with a correct identifying inscription? Thank you, Hansmuller (talk) 16:49, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi Hansmuller, the source you provided is not considered reliable - see its entry at this page for more details. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:18, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi Nikkimaria, Thanks for pointing this out to me, a general overall rule. However in this perhaps special case the photographs of the tomb monument with correct inscribed data are convincing evidence in combination with the text there, corroborated by other reliable well-known biographical data. So the cited webpage is valuable in this case - i'm not evaluating other pages or the whole website findagrave.com which apparently was found to be of uneven quality - and should be cited on Viljoen's article as an exception to the WP:RS-rule. OK? Cheers, Hansmuller (talk) 06:16, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi Hansmuller, I wouldn't agree. The only piece of that paragraph that could conceivably be cited to the photograph is the date of death, and that is easily cited to better sources. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:25, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

FAR lapse

Sorry I forgot to go through FAR this week!! I took over as Treasurer at church two months ago, and they pretty much ran the finances in to the ground while I was away, every time I look in I find more errors I have to fix and bigger problems covered up by bookkeeping snafus, and I've been up to my eyeballs busy. But the problem should end soon (either by me getting things under control again or by the church folding), and I hope to be back in the saddle at FAR soon. I hope you know how much I appreciate your work, and I'm so sorry for giving you nothing to work with of late! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:26, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Hey Sandy, no worries, best of luck with the finances! Nikkimaria (talk) 01:28, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Threshold of originality question

Nikki, can I get a second opinion on File:Zenith Data Systems logo 1979.svg? I would have thought that "Z" is designed sufficiently that the logo as a whole is copyrightable. I'm reviewing Zenith Data Systems for GA, and I think the right answer would be to upload it locally and add a FUR. And I assume the FUR would also take care of the possible trademark concern that is tagged to the image? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:34, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi Mike, essentially Commons' rule is that trademarks are not a consideration in whether a work can be hosted there - just copyright. And with regards to the copyright of that image, given some of the entries at commons:Commons:Threshold_of_originality#United_States, I'd be inclined to disagree and say this probably wouldn't be counted as sufficiently original. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:47, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

OK, thanks -- very helpful on both counts. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:49, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Charles III

Hello. Charles III has recently been nominated for GA. If you would like to review it, you're welcome to. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 16:22, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

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William Muldoon biographical information

William Muldoon didn't die at 88. The NY Times obit is not accurate. The information that you changed it from was correct. Periodically, people change the page to the erroneous over the years, not knowing this. Also trying to understanding the reasoning of changing his name from William, which he was known professionally, to Bill, which was informal and a nickname. 2603:8000:BF42:8E9:81D9:4D55:6494:75AE (talk) 06:39, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi IP, I didn't change either his name or his dates on that page. Do you have a source to support what you believe to be the correct dates? Nikkimaria (talk) 12:02, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 29

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Samuel Alfred Beadle Infobox

Hi Nikkimaria,

I noticed you removed the infobox for Samuel Alfred Beadle citing "‎rm non-RS". Could you explain your reasoning a bit more on this? All of the the items in the infobox have academic/periodical sources. Additionally there is no info in the wikidata infobox that is not already available (and supported by sources) in the article.

Is this about it being a Wikidata infobox? If so, in order to view the statement references you have to click on the wikidata item.

Cheers, ElanHR (talk) 20:15, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi ElanHR, at the time of my edit the statement references were unreliable - I see you've now improved them, which is great. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:09, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Revisiting it, I now see the original source I used (https://allpoetry.com/Samuel-Alfred-Beadle) wasn't ideal. Do you think the updated list is sufficient? ElanHR (talk) 22:49, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes, looks much better. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:38, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

HMS Gloucester (1654)

Hello Nikkimaria, I'm looking to sorted the RS issue for HMS Gloucester (1654) (which I got to GA), but I'm unclear which sources used in the article are unreliable iyo. If possible, please could you provide details? Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 15:07, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Amitchell125, looks like another editor has removed the main problem. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:44, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Lewis_Milestone

Nikkimaria Just FYI: Due to CerroFerro's repeated unconstructive behaviour (repeated reverts without any sign of willing to address the issues pointed out or participate in offered discussion), I've now asked the [noteboard] for support. Robert Kerber (talk) 07:30, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the head's up. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:50, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue 205, May 2023

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The Bugle: Issue 205, May 2023

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Sean Bean

Hello,

I have a question about The Sun citation that you removed. While The Sun may not usually be the most credible source, they were the ones to break this news, as the other Times citations credits The Sun with the news. In this case, shouldn't The Sun be included because they were the ones to break the news, which was later covered by others? Lord Theoden (talk) 04:29, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Lord Theoden, per WP:DEPS when more reliable sources are available they should be used - we don't really care who first reported a claim unless that fact is itself significant in some way. 21:30, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Mithril

With all due respect, I am not sure what other source you could be looking for. Mythril is simply something which is just obviously in the game. I don’t know of a better source than the official game wiki, nor any other source for that matter. A. Rosenberg (talk) 13:28, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

In that case it doesn't warrant inclusion - see MOS:POPCULT. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:37, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

It’s one of the top 10 best selling games of all time A. Rosenberg (talk) 13:31, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

That means it's possible there is POPCULT-appropriate sourcing. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:27, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

The section is called "in other fiction" and has other video games which are less notable than Terraria (such as World of Warcraft) A. Rosenberg (talk) 22:33, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Fixed. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:36, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: April 2023

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Access to the BNA website

Dear Nikkimaria,
Thank you for finalising my application to the BNA on Monday 15 May. I validated my account (using the voucher code) and received the BNA's 'Welcome' email at 09:41 that day. After registering and logging in, I was able to access three pages, but no more after that, and kept receiving a request to 'Subscribe', which really surprised and confused me. I reported all this to Sam via email on 17 May and then directly to the BNA yesterday (18 May), via their 'Contact us' facility. I received an email reply from their staff member Liam at 09:08 this morning, explaining that a subscription is required after three pages, and that this is normal procedure. BTW, I have not received any other instructions by email, beyond the initial BNA voucher to validate my account, after which I did register successfully and now have an active account. If I should have done anything else, or differently, then I can only apologise for troubling you with this issue.
Thank you in advance for anything you can do to help me have free access to the BNA website, per my application.
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(become old-fashioned!)} 10:19, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Update: I received an email from Sam at 12:43pm today, asking me if I'd entered the voucher code on Monday, and I did. But just to make sure, at about 2pm today I clicked on the link Sam supplied in his email and re-entered the voucher code, and the response was: Coupon code not valid (presumably, because I had already entered it on Monday 15 May, but that's just a guess on my part). Sam is also aware of this latest update. Thank you once again for your help with this issue.
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(become old-fashioned!)} 18:03, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the follow-up - hopefully you and Sam will be able to sort things out offline. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:13, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

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Books & Bytes – Issue 56

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Removal of spoken version of Germany

Hi, you reverted my edit adding a Spoken Wikipedia version of the article on Germany, with only the comment "trim". Can you please justify that action? morrisjm (talk) 03:30, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi morrisjm, that version is wildly out of date. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:31, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

What exactly is it about it you feel is so out of date that nothing is preferable to it? I listened to it, I feel like I learned a lot about Germany, and I don't think I heard anything that was factually inaccurate to the point that it should be un-published. morrisjm (talk) 03:41, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

That recording is from 15 years ago; every single section has changed since then. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:46, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Image "licence" query

Hi Nikki - could I ask your view on whether this image can be included in a GA? The copyright holder (the British Library) sell it, but for £0 for web use: the page reads "Images can be used for free, Please credit: Courtesy British Library (followed by the shelfmark)." Is that good enough for an upload to Commons, in the absence of a formal CC licence? UndercoverClassicist (talk) 20:59, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi UndercoverClassicist, if the library were indeed the copyright holder, that statement would not be sufficient to allow its use. But are they? Have a look at commons:COM:ART - if the original work is in the public domain, the library would not garner a new copyright just by scanning it. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:43, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the very speedy reply - funnily enough, that runs us into the other problem I'm trying to solve on the article. The source is a (very) old book (16th century): does it count as "published" if it's that old and produced by hand? Otherwise, I'm wondering about PD-ART, but my read on that would be that the page needs to have been 'published' as an artwork and PD, which would mean essentially that it's been displayed open to that page in a museum for the last century or so. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 21:48, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

It wouldn't automatically count as published just by being old. Couple of other options to explore: commons:COM:PACUSA, or failing that commons:Template:PD-US-unpublished. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:04, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

OK, that tracks. So I think we've got three options:

1. If the illustration from the book has been "published" by being printed and made available widely (e.g. in Penguin Classics or something similar), and that happened before 1928, we're good for PD-US-EXPIRED.

2. If the illustration itself has been displayed somewhere public that people can make copies of it since at least 1928, we've got PD-Art|PD-old-90-1923.

3. If we can show that the book has never been published in a format that a general reader could buy, we've got PD-US-unpublished.

Otherwise, we probably need a new picture. Have I got that right? UndercoverClassicist (talk) 22:14, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Essentially yes, although 2 is a little more nuanced, particularly since such a publication would most likely have been outside the US. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:18, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Great, thank you. Unfortunately, I think this is going to be bad news for the picture, but I very much appreciate your time and expertise. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 22:22, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, a thought: given that the image is available online, that's surely publication within the meaning of (1) to perform or display it at a place open to the public or at any place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered, and so PD-US-UNPUBLISHED won't be applicable? Or does it only count if the author never published it? UndercoverClassicist (talk) 22:34, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Publication is technically an exclusive right of the copyright holder, but most online digitizations postdate 2003 anyways. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:55, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Find A Grave

Hello, Nikkimaria.

I noticed you've undone a lot of links to Find A Grave on many articles. I'd just like to say first and foremost is that it IS a very useful and reliable source, and it has been used on many other articles besides ones i've edited. I kindly ask that you please undo any reverts on the matter and refrain from removing links from Find A Grave in the future. Thank you. OmniFrieza994 (talk) 21:16, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi OmniFrieza994, the community consensus is that that source is not reliable - see its entry at this page. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:34, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

I think that is confusing "user-generated" with the actual facts. Point in fact - you removed the Rev William Boyd, yet the source clearly shows the grave and its inscription. People find graves and report them, yes, but that does not make it unreliable per se. Unreliable implies fiction, fallacy and error. Where exactly is the source demonstrating that it is error prone? In genealogical circles it is consiodered a very useful resource. So far I have not identified any misleading pages, which does not mean that it could not be abused. I just have not seen any evidence that it has been. Please restore the sources for Crimond Church. Michael Goodyear ✐  ✉

On review, I think the better solution would be to remove the list in question entirely, since it lacks reliable secondary sourcing. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:17, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

While I cannot claim to have done an exhaustive review of the discussion on FAG, I would dissent from the view that there is a concensus - though I see you have been very active in this topic. There is actually quite vigorous and helpful debate. Of the 6 pages referenced for its status, one confuses it with findmypast. The status symbol is curious since it primarily refers to living subjects which this site clearly does not. Like anything else on WP, all stated facts should be treated with caution and crosschecked where possible. We can be too pure. As far as that specific list goes, having some knowledge of the topic, it seems accurate but I agree should be sourced, which I had started to do. Usually round here, rather than removing unsourced content, we tag them. Michael Goodyear ✐  ✉ 02:35, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

If you feel the designation at RSP is incorrect, I'd suggest you raise it there. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:40, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm curious though - why did you take the list out of the cemetery page and then simply remove the sources from the killer pages? I spent hours going through FaG to make that list. You could have just taken the sources out and left the list in-place. OmniFrieza994 (talk) 20:30, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

I understand that you took time to build it, but if it's based on an unreliable source it doesn't belong. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:54, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

That still doesn't answer my other query - why leave the statements on the killer pages but not the cemetery? You left that the killers were all buried at the cemetery on their pages. OmniFrieza994 (talk) 00:45, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

If you think they should be removed I have no objection. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:46, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

So will you put it back up, perhaps with FaG sources removed? OmniFrieza994 (talk) 01:02, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

No - it can't be restored without reliable sourcing. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:04, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Template:Find a Grave#Usage guidance is more specific about when that website is not to be relied upon: "While photographs of gravestones provide useful information, the biographical and other additional details may not be reliable."  As noted above by @OmniFrieza994: for "Rev William Boyd... the source clearly shows the grave and its inscription." If it is the photograph of the gravestone itself that is being shown/cited/quoted, and not the user-generated text on that page, what's the factual ground to call that "unreliable"? – .Raven  ^.talk 05:02, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

It wasn't the primary source that was being cited, and citing primary sources has its limits - Wikipedia is meant to be based on secondary sources. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:36, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

If photographs are "primary sources", we should delete all photos from both Wikipedia and Commons. Somehow I don't think that's our policy. Now, posting the original, physical, gravestone itself here would be a primary source... but I don't think that's technically possible. – .Raven  ^.talk 07:13, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Taking a photo of or otherwise copying a primary source doesn't make it a non-primary source. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:41, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Then so much for "photographs of gravestones provide useful information". Do you intend to edit that template documentation? – .Raven  ^.talk 23:39, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Nope. Something can be "useful" without being a reliable secondary source. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:41, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

If we're not supposed to actually use them.... – .Raven  ^.talk 01:57, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red - June 2023

Women in Red June 2023, Vol 9, Iss 6, Nos 251, 252, 271, 272, 273 Online events: New: Alphabet run X, Y & Z | LGBTQ+ women | Wiki Loves Pride | Women in Music Continuing: Peace and Diplomacy (year-long initiative) | #1day1woman See also: Women in Green: June 2023 GA Editathon event page Wikipedia:Wiki Loves Pride/2023 global campaign The Wikipedia Library: #1Lib1Ref - May 15th to June 5th Tip of the month: Looking for new red links? Keep an eye out for interesting and notable friends, family, or associates of your last article subject, and re-examine group photos for other women who may still need an article. Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Lajmmoore (talk) 09:16, 28 May 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Wikipedia Library Application

Hello, you approved my application for the British Newspaper Archive on the Wikipedia Library earlier today. I received an email with a coupon code to gain access to the database, however when I tried entering it at the provided URL, I received a message that it was invalid. Not sure why this might be. I had previously registered for a free account on the British Newspaper Archive, maybe I need to make a new one? Thanks. Hockeyben ^{(talk - contribs)} 18:46, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Hockeyben, I'll follow up on that and get back to you. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:21, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, just wondering if there has been any progress made here. Thanks. --Hockeyben ^{(talk - contribs)} 20:16, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately not - there have been some other reports of issues so the access has been waitlisted pending that getting sorted out. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:12, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. Hopefully things get resolved.--Hockeyben ^{(talk - contribs)} 00:55, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi, I opened a new application as instructed in an email I received. Would you be able to approve it? Thanks. --Hockeyben ^{(talk - contribs)} 03:08, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Eastview for WP:TWL

Dear Nikkimaria, thank you for all your hard work over the years and the work you continue to do. I'm a long-term collaborator / editor often on issues where our systemic bias counts against us, and I saw today that Kges1901 had suggested at WT:TWL that we consider asking Eastview Information Services' whether they might allow access to their extensive range of online databases?

"..They have a wide range of newspaper collections that cover areas such as East Asia, the Middle East and Eastern Europe that are not currently included.. Adding access to these newspapers would help with addressing Wikipedia's systemic bias.." [minor paraphrase].

I think this is a great idea!! If I wanted to encourage TWL and its backers to get these resources added, how would you advise me to start? Many thanks Buckshot06 (talk) 03:18, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Buckshot06, I'd recommend starting at the Suggest page - Eastview has already been proposed there so you can upvote it to increase its prioritization (and plus if it is brought on, upvoters get notified). Nikkimaria (talk) 03:21, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Many thanks for your very prompt and useful pointer!! Buckshot06 (talk) 03:36, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue 206, June 2023

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 and Nick-D review three recent works

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Find a Grave

It is a sharp irony, is it not, that Wikipedia's lack of welcome for Find a Grave as a reliable source is on the basis that the content is "user generated".

Wikipedia is also user generated – with its credibility asserted by citations – but in some instances, as in this one, photographic evidence is equivalent to a reliable source: such credibility is high. The likelihood that someone would use artificial intelligence to create a fake image – or take a photograph of the headstone in a different cemetery – is remote.

It is pretty galling that in such a tiny graveyard I could find the headstone within one minute – especially since its location is precisely identified at the Find a Grave website – and I could take further pictures of it myself for uploading to Wikimedia Commons which would be acceptable for inclusion in the article, but I could not include my physical visit as a reliable source citation, despite seeing the gravestone with my own eyes!

I have formerly provided my own headstone picture at the John Stanislaus Joyce article – and this complies with Wikipedia policy.

Anyway, I have adjusted my entry to comply with the WP:FINDAGRAVE-EL policy by including it, instead – and as permitted – as an external link!

Collisions between bureaucratic rules and stark physical reality – usually between a citizen and the bank or between the citizen and the government – are notorious. Cheers. O'Dea (talk) 03:29, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Find a Grave should be blacklisted. On a side note...Should not trust headstones for dates Wilson, Scott (2016). Resting Places: The Burial Sites of More Than 14,000 Famous Persons, 3d ed. Jefferson, North Carolina: McFarland. p. 165. ISBN 978-1-4766-2599-7. Crawford, Joan (Lucille LeSueur, March 23, 1904 – May 10, 1977) San Antonio born film star.... Her ashes were placed in the vault beside the coffin of her husband, with the crypt listing her birth year as 1908. Moxy- 03:44, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

The headstone details of someone who died recently and the details of whose death are not obscure but are well known by the family – and by the public at large in the case of a public figure – are highly likely to be accurate. The family of the deceased would detonate in rage and insist the stone carver provide a corrected inscription, including a new stone if necessary, if they spotted any error, as they certainly would.

Historical burials, especially those where the details of death are hazy, such as that of a soldier who fell in a large, chaotic battle, or where someone was murdered and their body found years later, are another matter. O'Dea (talk) 04:35, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Anyone can put anything they want on a headstone. Moxy- 11:37, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

That is, indeed, the point of headstones; you get it. The bereaved get what they pay for, otherwise there would be no point in forking out cash to the stone carver. O'Dea (talk) 21:55, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Joan Crawford#cite note-birthyear-1: Crawford's year of birth is uncertain, as various sources claim 1904,^[1][2][3] 1905,^[4][5] 1906,^[6][7] and 1908.^[8][9] Crawford herself widely claimed 1908 (the date on her tombstone).^[10] Crawford's daughter Christina states "1904" twice in the biography Mommie Dearest, published in 1978.^[11] – .Raven  .talk 08:38, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I am hoping what I wrote at Crawford's page is clear to all. Moxy- 11:39, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Data from the 1910 census should be the decider between those dates, although even that can't be considered truly definitive.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 00:37, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Presumably at the time she was 2–6 years old, (a) she was not then trying to minimize her age, (b) the discrepancy would have been far too obvious to anyone who saw her, and (c) her parents – who likewise presumably had no reason to change her age – would have been answering the census-taker's questions. :) [full disclosure: former census-taker; former census local supervisor] – .Raven  .talk 03:52, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Moxy: For the second time in less than a month, I have found that published authors and Wikipedia contributors have jumped to the conclusion that a subject died in his retirement community, while the admittedly unreferenced data in Find A Grave is correct that they died elsewhere. With a little effort, I was able to find references to confirm the alternate location for both Henry Clark Corbin and Edward Bancroft Williston. – Maliepa (talk) 17:33, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Bob Lee (businessman)

Nikkimaria, I hope you are well; it's been a while since I've posted here.

The nomination in the section header has had at least one reviewer mentioning concerns of plagiarism (and where in the article); I was hoping you could check to see whether anything concerning remains, and whether the sourcing issues also remain, though that's usually not your remit. Thank you very much. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:32, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

24th mechanized brigade

So since we shouldn't to be bias to one side can we put the claims of the 24th mechanized brigade being wiped out but then say that it's been disputed by Ukrainian and Western officials Salfanto (talk) 12:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Ultimately you would need reliable sourcing for either claim. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:18, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: May 2023

This Month in GLAM – Volume XIII, Issue V, May 2023 Headlines From the team: E-mail account issue Albania report: Summer of Wikivoyage Edit-a-thon in Shëngjin, Albania, 2023 Australia report: Improving Wikipedia pages about Australian women filmmakers at ACMI Brazil report: First GLAM-Wiki partnership from Pará Finland report: Adding authority control templates with Pywikibot India report: Digitization of Behar Herald starts in Patna Indonesia report: Wikisource Workshop in Madura; Outreach to Bandung; Indonesian Wikisource Competition Italy report: Open access from North to South Kosovo report: Summer of Wikivoyage Edit-a-thon 2023 New Zealand report: Women in Architecture Edit-a-thon and Auckland suburb updates Philippines report: Wikisource promotion at UNC Museum Sweden report: Air travel and city streets Switzerland report: Swiss GLAM Programme Uganda report: These last few months in Uganda UK report: Promoting cultural diversity on Wikipedia USA report: A Spotlight on Black Women Birders; DC Nobel Solution Sessions; Women of Color in the Renwick Gallery; Anthropology and Community Connections; SAGE edit-a-thon; WikiWednesday Salon; Into the Wikiverse: AANHPIs in Science Fiction and Pop Culture; Queering Wikipedia 2023 Special story: Help Wikimedia Map Your Efforts to Improve Copyright! GLAM Wiki conference report: GLAM Wiki Conference 2023: Announcing the venue & scholarship application process open Wiki Loves Living Heritage report: Photo contests WMF GLAM report: WILMA, DPLA + SDAW, and BHL whitepaper updates Calendar: June's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

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Disambiguation link notification for June 14

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited John Stuart (actor), you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Lend Me Your Husband and Smashing Through.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:05, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Bird, Savage & Bird

It appears you removed two family trees from Bird, Savage & Bird. Your justification was "cull". By doing this you have deprived the readers of a vital visual tool to help understand complicated family relationships. Can you explain why you decided to take this action?

Sidpickle (talk) 07:45, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Sidpickle, Wikipedia is not a genealogy reference - family trees should be included only when relevant to understanding a notable topic, and there's no indication why that would be the case here. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:39, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

That is YOUR opinion. You know nothing of the topic but make a decision like this arbitrarily. The first tree WAS most definitely relevant to understanding the topic. It delt with the intermarriages between merchants, financiers and the American influencers of the period just after the War of Independence and the connection to Bird, Savage & Bird. These people were connected with the early development of America as an independent nation and corresponded with the likes of George Washington and Alexander Hamilton. Not a notable topic you say? See a typical letter to Treasurer Hamilton https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Hamilton/01-18-02-0172 The second tree may not be directly germane to the topic but does give some indication of where the Bird family fitted in society of the time. I suggest perhaps you should look at it again.

Sidpickle (talk) 11:22, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Okay, I've looked at it again, and I agree with your second point: the second tree is not directly germane to the topic. As to the first, there is text summarizing the relevant claims still present. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:05, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Too much?

Permanent residents chart .....add a bit more data...thus drop prose of In 2021, India, China, and the Philippines were the top three countries of origin for immigrants moving to Canada.....see User:Moxy/sandbox.. - Moxy- 23:53, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

I think you'd end up pushing the following image down, and I don't think it's worth it for one sentence. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:27, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

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Trimming

Hey, I see you've been trimming and removing a lot of content in your recent edits. What is "fmt" as mentioned in Richard Montañez: Revision history, and what's the reason for pruning those citations?
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Richard_Monta%C3%B1ez&action=history Spagooder (talk) 03:43, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Spagooder , "fmt" is an abbreviation for "format", as in amend the format of the citations to match those already in use in the article. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:47, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Cool, thanks. So I'm wondering how to best present one of the citations on there, the podcast with the editor's note. 'Cause it's not just the content of the podcast, which can be found on other platforms, but also the info in the editor's note, like some 2-in-1 citation. Spagooder (talk) 18:02, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

The best approach would be to cite the general episode link rather than specifically the transcript. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:01, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Not the transcript, the editor's note, they're on different pages. Spagooder (talk) 03:02, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree. But the URL of the podcast episode allows you to access both the note and the episode itself. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:08, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Images at Peralta Stones

I think all of the images posted to this article are problematic. They seems to be lifted from a published source elsewhere - a book that seems to be maybe out of print but that I cannot access online - but Google Image search is also polluted by the WP/Common results. The Commons uploader only uploaded the images in 2013, they have made no other edits other than the Peralta Stones article images. I have been unable to find where the images originated from but they do have a copyright asserted by the website desertusa(dot)com in 2014 and the website's overall copyright dates to 1996. DesertUsa asserts on some of its images "Courtesy of the Superstition Mountain Historical Society" but I was unable to find any of the images on the Superstition Mountain Historical Society's website, which now seems to be https://superstitionmountainlostdutchmanmuseum.org/.
Could you maybe take a look at some of the images and reply back here with your thoughts? Here is a link of LatinHeartReader's contributions to Commons: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Latin_Heart_Reader I don't want to put them all up for deletion because of possible/probable copyright infringement if that is not the case. Thanks in advance for your thoughts, any help, etc. Shearonink (talk) 16:59, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

I've already posted about this at Talk:Peralta Stones#Images. Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 17:06, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Shearonink, there's a couple that are okay, eg File:PERALTA_STONE_EQ.jpg is too simple to get copyright protection whether it originates from the user or elsewhere. For the others, you can browse through the old versions of the museum site to see if they include those images. I wonder also if they might have been taken from the video mentioned at the DesertUSA site - the quality issues may have arisen from screenshotting a moving image. Unfortunately I can't view the video to verify that. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:19, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Potatoes in thanks

	Some potatoes
	Thank you for your thorough image review for Stravinsky, I'm much more familiar with copyright standards now, and greatly appreciate your guidance throughout the process. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 22:11, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

No worries, better luck next time. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:48, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red July 2023

Women in Red June 2023, Vol 9, Iss 7, Nos 251, 252, 274, 275, 276 Online events: New: Women in Red's 8th anniversary | Alphabet run A & B | Sports Continuing: Peace and Diplomacy (year-long initiative) | #1day1woman Tip of the month: Look out for contributors interested in writing about women and invite them to join Women in Red Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events. Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Lajmmoore (talk) 07:44, 27 June 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Wentworth Dillon, 4th Earl of Roscommon (Comments)

Dear Nikkimaria, you are one of our top Wikipedians, an administrator, FA coordinator, expert on image copyright issues, you name it. Why do you remove my comments on thepeerage.com? It is deprecated and one should cite the references given in thepeerage, not thepeerage itself. I find it still useful for quick cross-checking. It is about as reliable as what I write in Wikipedia. I feel it is below your dignity as a venerable Wikipedian to waste your precious time on deleting my comments, but I probably must be glad you did not at the same time delete my family tree, my timeline, my footquotes, and most of my other contributions. Are you sure you are improving Wikipedia? Yours sincerely, Johannes Schade (talk) 07:56, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm afraid your analysis errs on several points, most important of which is this: deprecated sources should not be used for cross-checking of anything. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:55, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Dear Nikkimaria. Thank you very much for your reply. WP:DEPRECATE says "Deprecated sources are highly questionable sources that editors are discouraged from citing in articles". It does not seem to forbid its use for all purposes (e.g. my "cross-checking"). I have never used ThePeerage as a source for a citation, but I have used it for several years for drawing and checking family trees in aristocratic biographies in Wikipedia. Its rigourous design makes for quick navigation. I only once found a mistake in it where St Germains in the U.K. was confused with Saint-Germain-en-Laye in France. Perhaps "cross-checking" is not the right word. My English is 2nd language. With many thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 21:55, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

You are describing using the site as a source for developing content on Wikipedia - whatever term you use for that, it's not something that should be done, because of its questionable reliability. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:28, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Sandwiching images

Hi Nikki. That issue hadn’t occurred to me (I’m using a tablet so maybe the images seemed more spaced out and sandwiching wasn’t presenting itself). The images were also there before I’d seen the article so probably assumed it was reading ok. I’ve kept the places commonly associated with London (Buckingham Palace, Harrods, Abbey Rd) while trimming off the others. Para Clark (talk) 10:01, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Para Clark - there's also a pending talk-page question for you when you have a moment. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:56, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Age of Empires IV

Hi, I noticed that you removed the fandom wiki links for AoE4. I want to know the reason for it.

I linked it specifically because anyone wanting to know more about the game can directly visit the dedicated wiki for it. Obviously Wikipedia cannot have everything regarding the game. Sauravt2812 (talk) 09:48, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Sauravt2812, the reason is that per our external links guideline links to open wikis should generally not be included. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:37, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Ok, I am stumped!

I was trying to figure out why I can't get a Table of contents onto my user talk. (I mainly tried the magic words of __TOC__.) If you or one of your talk page stalkers have the chance could someone please take a look at User talk:Shearonink, post here in reply and tell me whhhhyyyyy. Please don't go ahead and correct my mistake (which I am sure is perfectly clear to everyone but me). Just post the solution here and let *me* correct the coding etc. on my page - otherwise I'll never learn. Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 17:33, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

(watching:) The TOC is now - and I don't like it - hidden in the symbol preceeding the header "User talk:Sh..." (or any other article). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:02, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm sorry but - keeping in mind I am not a coder at all - "hidden in the symbol" isn't making sense to me. Why can't I see it? Why can't I find it? Why can't I link to a subsection? I was trying to link a possible Talkback & couldn't link to a certain section on my user talk... Thanks, signed "I Pretty Much Only Really Edit Text Around Here" or Shearonink (talk) 18:15, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

You can see it when you click on the symbol. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I can link to a section on your talk, such as User talk:Shearonink#In appreciation. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:22, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Shearonink, you can't generally have more than one Table of Contents per page using the magic word, and you've included that magic word in User:Shearonink/note which is transcluded to your main talk page. That one is taking precedence over the one for your actual talk page. You have a few options for dealing with that, depending on what your personal priorities are. You can remove the transclusion of the /note page entirely, and just link to it. You can take the magic word off of the /note page, which if you continue to transclude it will result in all of that content being included in the main talk page's TOC. You can remove the magic word from the /note page, change the heading levels on that page, and add a TOC limit on the main talk page - that will keep that content out of the main talk page TOC, but also hide the TOC in the transclusion. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:51, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Cinema of Italy and Italian literature

Hi, I need a favor. I saw that you fixed the articles Italians and History of Italy, and I would like to ask you if you could fix (so as to remove the tags), also the articles Cinema of Italy and Italian literature. I would like to do it, but I'm not so familiar with the English Wikipedia policies (I'm mainly active on the Italian Wikipedia). Greetings. --LukeWiller (talk) 14:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC).

I can try, but it won't be for a while yet. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:35, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the answer, at least I'll ask some other users. --LukeWiller (talk) 14:42, 1 July 2023 (UTC).

Help Requested

Hi,

You once helped me out with an article I was preparing and I recall you were very competent with citation formatting. Not guilty (I hope) but I noticed on an article I was editing some of the citations were broken. Could you have a peek for me.

The article is Irredentism and it a problem with an sfn template Kornprobst. Hope that makes sense. WCM_email 15:27, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi WCM, should be fixed now? Unless you've got a reason to do otherwise I'd recommend using year for all book refs - more specific usually isn't helpful. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:36, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

It wasn't my doing but will take that on board. WCM_email 16:03, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

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W. B. Yeats

Just asking. StrongALPHA (talk) 19:09, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

As noted, see the talk archives. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:42, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Manhattan Project

The original article was written before the subarticles were created, so there is scope for reducing the main article. However, we need to take into account what is in the subarticles and what is not. Let's workshop our way through it on the talk page. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:14, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Okay, I've tagged it in the interim. There does appear to be material that really doesn't need to be anywhere, so it's not entirely on what's in the subarticles. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:43, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: June 2023

This Month in GLAM – Volume XIII, Issue VI, June 2023 Headlines Albania report: CEE Spring Campaign 2023, Albania and Kosovo Asia report: Donation of images from the National Centre for Biological Sciences Brazil report: Native Brazilian photographer wins Wiki Loves Folklore Brazil 2023 Croatia report: Half done in 2023 Germany report: Museum tour, WLM, handouts and image donation India report: Wiki Exploration Programme GLAM activities Indonesia report: Conclusion of Mini Grants; Second #1Lib1Ref Campaign; Wikisource Workshop in Bali Italy report: TCI and Turin Academy of Science Kosovo report: CEE Spring Campaign 2023, Albania and Kosovo Netherlands report: A new book, new Wikipedia articles, videos and further images on Africa New Zealand report: Report on the Society for the Preservation of Natural History Collections Conference 2023 and Auckland suburb updates Philippines report: GLAM outreach activity at University of Nueva Caceres: Digitization, workshops and proofread-a-thons as future collaboration Poland report: GLAM-Wiki workshops for the Czartoryski Library; Work on the GLAM-Wiki Project Page Continues; End of Internship within the "Praktykuj w Kulturze" Program Sweden report: Knowledge overview; Almedalen week Switzerland report: Swiss GLAM Programm UK report: Cultural diversity USA report: WikiWednesday returns to Manhattan; Wikimedia NYC and Art+Feminism; WikiConference North America 2023; GLAM Wiki 2023 Special story: Flickr Foundation and Wikimedia Foundation partner to build Flickypedia GLAM Wiki conference report: The call for proposals is now open for the GLAM Wiki Conference Calendar: July's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

About This Month in GLAM · Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery · Romaine 07:10, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue 207, July 2023

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D on alleged Australian war crimes and Hawkeye7 on the 1944–45 Philippines campaign and the Australian Signals Directorate

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 19:58, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for restoring some faith

I recognize that I got unusually unhinged at WP:LENGTH, for the reasons I gave, and I can transparently admit that my reaction stemmed from the habit of placing reader-visible templates on articles that do not give our readers actionable information to evaluate the article. However, you clearly took effort to address the problem that you raised, and that doesn't happen enough around here. I often talk about how respect is earned, and however inconsequential it may be, you've earned mine. Thank you. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 06:52, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Cheers! Nikkimaria (talk) 00:54, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Eric Kebbon

Date ranges on the Eric Kebbon page for the lives of Eric and his wife Jane were confirmed by the findagrave.com website as it included photographs of the gravestones showing the dates. Information from such a source is not "non-RS". 2603:7000:9500:F800:54B:2C18:8332:BD49 (talk) 03:48, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

No, Jane's page doesn't include any photos. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:53, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Oops, my bad with Jane. Please fix the error you made when you deleted one space too many, however. 2603:7000:9500:F800:54B:2C18:8332:BD49 (talk) 03:56, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Fixed. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:02, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Glad you spotted the deletion error. Your link to "Who's who in the East and Eastern Canada" does not provide any useful information, however. 2603:7000:9500:F800:54B:2C18:8332:BD49 (talk) 04:12, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

It confirms the subject's date of birth, marriage, and number of children. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:12, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

How do I know this from the link provided? 2603:7000:9500:F800:54B:2C18:8332:BD49 (talk) 04:22, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

From the excerpt it provides. You can also confirm from a print copy, if the online version is inaccessible to you - GBooks tends to be geographically or otherwise limited. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:24, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

When I follow that link I get "preview unavailable". Consider another source. 2603:7000:9500:F800:54B:2C18:8332:BD49 (talk) 04:30, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

I was surprised that this entry was so poorly organized and sourced. I am glad that you are paying attention to it. 2603:7000:9500:F800:54B:2C18:8332:BD49 (talk) 04:37, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

The best I can get out of Google Books is this low res image https://books.google.com/books/content?id=NXIhwNMdOqQC&pg=PA610&img=1&pgis=1&dq=kebbon&sig=ACfU3U3Yr8o1G11or5YJo_FPHCE5il4Zjg&edge=0 2603:7000:9500:F800:54B:2C18:8332:BD49 (talk) 04:43, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Okay, but looks like that contains all of the claims it's being used to support, correct? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:46, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

On my screen it's not quite a complete entry. How many lines are cutoff? This is a really good source otherwise. So much good stuff — affiliations, dates, specific buildings. 2603:7000:9500:F800:54B:2C18:8332:BD49 (talk) 04:52, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

It looks like the same entry was republished across multiple editions so you might have luck looking up a different one. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:04, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Figure out some way to make the full entry on this reference visible and I will update Kebbon's Wikipedia entry tomorrow. I have no affiliation with this person, but I have seen his buildings as an architecture fan in NYC and was saddened by his Wikipedia entry. 2603:7000:9500:F800:54B:2C18:8332:BD49 (talk) 05:08, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

The Vancouver flag

Hi there. I thought I'd contact you following your comments here. The deleted Vancouver and Calgary flags were are used on wikiproject banners on the French Wikipedia, fr:Modèle:Portail Vancouver and fr:Modèle:Portail Calgary, which are now showing those jigsaw puzzle icons. I raised the matter here but would you have any recommendations? Thanks. (Please don't respond on my enwiki user talkpage, I am not active here any longer.) Shawn à Montréal (talk) 11:41, 12 July 2023 (UTC)