User talk:Jamesena

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So, are you Rusyn?

File:Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth

The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth

I am curious, are you descended from Rusyns? You might want to look at this book about the Rusyn language, or other works by Magocsi, the author. Answer me here if you like. I will watch here for your responses. μηδείς (talk) 03:22, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm Japanese on my dad's side and Dutch on my mom's. But perhaps some Rusyns settled in Holland. I find the ancient Rus and their modern descendants fascinating.Jamesena (talk) 03:35, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Holland? Most came to Canada and the north east United States, mostly Pennsylvania and New York, New Jersey and Ohio. You should watch the film Shadows of our Forgotten Ancestors here at youtube or at Netflix if it is still available there (I cancelled my membership). It's quite good, and I have watched it with my father who doesn't understand Ruthenian or Russian. Here is a link to the Ruthenian recension of the [1] in pentatonic chant. μηδείς (talk) 04:25, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I grew up in New York City and New Jersey in the 1950s and 60s with people with ancestors from Eastern Europe. The Rusyns I must have met may have been calling themselves all the nationalities that are attributed to Lizabeth Scott's parents. My best friend in high school told everyone he was Russian, though he was really of Lithuanian ancestry. He assumed no one heard of Lithuania and picked the nearest well-known country.Jamesena (talk) 04:47, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes. Magocsi's grammar book is called Hovorim po-Rusky, which is literally, "Let's Speak Russian". Wikipedia uses Russinsky. My neighbors when I was little were known as Litwaks (Lithuanians) and Magyars (Hungarians) which are non-slavic nationalities, but they all spoke our language. See also, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and the position of "Ruskie" in its south west. μηδείς (talk) 05:10, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Emma Matzo

I can find no evidence that her father is Italian, or that her mother is Rusyn. The Magocsi source [2] does not mention her mother, who is credited as Rusyn on its basis. But her father is described as Rusyn and a native of the town of Dubrynychi, which is 1.3 km from Uzhorod. [3]. Magocsi's Our People Our people: Carpatho-Rusyns and their descendants in North America Paul R. Magocsi Bolchazy-Carducci Publishers, Jul 30, 2005 - History - 230 pages says she is the child of Ruthenian immigrants, and I am going to use that source and quote. μηδείς (talk) 06:16, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Wow, what a find! This contradicts all the other printed material on the subject. Bernard Dick, the academic who interviewed Scott said the father was Italian and the mother Slovakian. Another source said the parents were English. Another source said the father was born in England. Maybe we'll have to give various sources till we find out for sure. I'll add the Dick citation. Thanks!Jamesena (talk) 06:30, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I find it hard to believe Matzo is Italian. It matches Lutzo in form, which is the name of a Rusyn family I know. It has no obvious Italian reflexes. If it were Italian, it would be spelt Luzzo. (You might also look at Alida Valli, who was of Austro-Hungarian nobility, but described as Italian due to residence.) I will get the Magocsi source I have added from the library when I have the chance--it's easier for me to do so on the weekends. I have placed an unverified template--although it's not the proper template. In any case it is tagged, and Magocsi refers to Ruthene parents, plural. μηδείς (talk) 06:47, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I assume you have access to "Bernard F. Dick (2004), Hal Wallis: Producer to the Stars, p. 96" then? Can you quote exactly what he says? Does he give a town? I suspect this is probably over-vague for the benefit of non-Slavs. μηδείς (talk) 07:02, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Dick only says John is Italian. He gives no town in Italy. From the context, it's not clear if John or Mary Matzo were born in the US or abroad. Dick's information was based on interviews he held with Scott in a LA restaurant. But given the time period when Scott was born, I would think it likely they were first-generation Americans.Jamesena (talk) 07:08, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Medeis, according to the 1940 US Census, both John and Mary Matzo say they were born in "Austria." See link for Mary: [4]. What do you think? I already listed Lizabeth as the oldest child. But there seems to have been NINE children. But the other record list six.Jamesena (talk) 18:42, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

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For your incredible work on Lizabeth Scott

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		I am not assuming your work is done, but you probably deserve about three of these by now, so I am pleased to award you the spinning barnstar. μηδείς (talk) 04:13, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, Medeis. I'm sorry that no one has bothered to write a bio on Scott. It's really a very interesting story!Jamesena (talk) 04:36, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Do you intend to submit this as a featured article, or a DYK? (WP:FA, WP:DYK)? μηδείς (talk) 04:46, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

If you wish to submit it yourself, go ahead. You'd be a better judge as I'm too close to the article to tell.Jamesena (talk) 11:37, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

I have done DYK's before, but unless they have recently changed the rules, they require a 5X expansion. Yo have gone from a 15K to a 45 K article, which is impressive, but only 3X. WP:FA is probably more likely--that has a rather straightforward set of criteria, mostly that the article be fully referenced and otherwise tagless. It requires a review, but I wouldn't be eligible to do that myself, as I have worked on the article personally. I think the work is worth you going for FA, and having Scott front and center on the front page would be excellent.

As for the article itself, I do still intend to simplify the ethnicity comments to just Rusyn in the text, with the confusion in the sources mentioned in the footnote. I also think a reference to the influence on her by Ayn Rand, screenwriter for her first movie, whom Scott praises highly at the end of the 1996 interview, should be added. Rand is apparently the reason Scott went to take philosophy courses in the summer of 1950. Oh, and I agree with you that Catholic is better than Roman Catholic. Scranton's got the highest concentration of Ruthenian Byzantine Catholics I am aware of. There may not be a source, but Catholic is safe if attested, while Roman Catholic would need a specific credible reference to the Roman part. μηδείς (talk) 18:47, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

If you have any information about Scott being baptized in the Ruthenian Church, please let me know. That would justify simplying the ethnicity question once and for all. Since she was born in nearby Dunmore, perhaps a record of her baptism at such a church is available. I'll keep expanding the article. I'll add material from the Soapbox video series.Jamesena (talk) 19:06, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't know how one goes about researching baptismal records, or if they're even public. I'd rather look into getting this nominated as a Featured Article if you don't want to do that. :) μηδείς (talk) 19:12, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

We'll figure it out. The records are out there. I'm certain there's a baptismal record for Scott.Jamesena (talk) 19:21, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

I agree with the subject heading. You've done a fantastic job with Lizabeth Scott's article. OscarL 23:21, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Lizabeth Scott for Featured Article

I am just about to nominate this as a Featured Article (WP:FA). The lead needs expansion to reflect the size of the article. I would add her three remaining films to he filmography, is possible, given she says she was in 25 films. I'd like to see mention of her influence by Rand mentioned, as per above. I have moved the confusing references to Slovak, Austrian, and Russian in her ancestry to the note, per above, and per a new source I have added. I am not sure if the formatting of that reference is good. I should ad the WP:FA template to this tomorrow, once I have expanded the lead, or you have expanded it. μηδείς (talk) 05:50, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Can you cite other three films? The current list is based on the IMDb, which is not always accurate, but I believe it complete. She might be referring to a documentary or such. Regarding Rand, Objectivism seemed to have begun with in 1958 with the Nathaniel Branden Institute, which is well after 1950, when Scott started attending to USC. She has stated the most influential philosophy in her life is Emerson's Transcendentalism, which she read during her childhood in Scranton. The other philosopher she mentioned is Aristotle. If you can find a published source where she mentions Rand, it would help. I'll rewatch the Soapbox video where she mentions Rand. Regarding your edit about ancestry, we still have contradicting published sources. Bernard Dick has PhDs in Latin and Greek and degrees in other subject and teaches film history. We can't simply say he's confused, as he's a recognized authority on film history. But since the subject is so controversial, I'll move the subject of Scott's ancestry to a footnote till the subject is resolved. I intended to write Dick a letter, but letters are generally not acceptable on Wiki. The link you gave doesn't mention Scott specifically. Jamesena (talk) 13:50, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

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