User talk:Random86

Sixteen (TV Show)

I saw that you added a ref improve tag to the article. For which areas would you suggest better references? I'm happy to look for some. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Katzenlibrary (talk • contribs) 17:12, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Katzenlibrary: I should have been more specific, but I wasn't sure which tag(s) to use. The lead section doesn't have any references, and this statement in particular needs one: "Unlike other music competition shows, Sixteen contestants will be assessed for not only their singing and dancing abilities but also their charisma and personality".

Another issue is notability. The show is probably notable, but the article lacks references to third-party reliable sources. See WP:KO/RS for what is considered reliable. I just did a quick search and saw lots of sources that could be used. This one could be used for the lead section actually. If you have trouble finding more references I can probably add some later. I use custom search engines that make it easier to find things. :) Random86 (talk) 23:47, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Random86 Much of the information I included comes directly from the show itself rather than an outside source, especially in the episode summaries. I can see your point though! Thanks for the KoreaHerald link. I'll use that and look around for other sources for the information like you suggested. I can guarantee that all the information is accurate, but the need for sources is understandable, since they give the page legitimacy. I'll get the sources taken care of, so please leave the info on the page for now (if you were thinking of deleting any of it). Thanks! Katzenlibrary (talk) 17:32, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Odd (Shinee album)

Why do you keep on removing the information about iTunes? This is allowed, other Wikipedia pages publish information about iTunes such as:

• Say Something (A Great Big World song): The cover version of the song surpassed Aguilera and A Great Big World's version on iTunes, climbing to number 1 the morning after they sang it onstage.
• The Heist (album): The album reached number one on iTunes within hours of being released on October 9, 2012 with no mainstream promotion or support.
• Let's Get Ready to Rhumble: The song climbed to number 1 on the iTunes UK Chart within days.
• Harrison Craig: His debut album titled More Than a Dream was released on 25 June 2013 and reached number 1 on the iTunes chart.

• 'Odd (Shinee album) says:' Upon release the album managed to top the Top 100, Kpop and Pop iTunes album charts in Japan, Hong Kong, Thailand, Taiwan, Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Sri Lanka and India.

So I think it should not be removed as it is not listing the charts down in a table like this:

Chart	Peak position
Ireland (IRMA)	1
UK Singles (Official Charts Company)	1

(101.160.148.243 (talk) 06:43, 23 May 2015 (UTC))

I know other other articles do it, but I still think it is against the guidelines. WP:CHART states that "Charts which rank material from a single vendor or network are generally unsuitable for inclusion in articles...They may occasionally be mentioned in article prose if special circumstances warrant it." Odd's ranking on iTunes is not a special circumstance. The album will rank on Gaon (and possibly Billboard) charts, and those can be mentioned when it does. Random86 (talk) 06:58, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

For now I believe they should be kept and plus most of those countries mentioned do not actually have any music album charts that are known.(101.160.148.243 (talk) 07:09, 23 May 2015 (UTC))

Absolutely should not be kept: WP:SINGLEVENDOR violation. —Kww(talk) 17:05, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

If that's the case then how do you explain all the other Wikipedia pages that talk about iTunes? (124.176.151.178 (talk) 04:06, 24 May 2015 (UTC))

There are lots of articles that do not conform to certain policies/guidelines and need improvement. Random86 (talk) 04:20, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Then why don't you fix those ones and then fix this one. (124.176.151.178 (talk) 04:25, 24 May 2015 (UTC))

(talk page stalker), it's better to wait until Gaon chart comes out. That is a legit chart.--TerryAlex (talk) 04:42, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

sistar

Why do you keep linking sistar information? I mean "2013-present" and "push push shady girl and how dare you". I don't want to say this, but Sistar's information is really little. I don't get why people are constantly editing the page(in a horrible way) and the page has really few information. Please kindly stop shortening the page. Thank you MindyChua (talk) 07:24, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Sometimes improvements make pages shorter. The last history section is "2013–present" because sections shouldn't be only a few sentences long. Combining short sections is a good thing. My edits were not "horrible"; I was trying to make some improvements so the cleanup tags could be removed. If all you are going to do is complain, don't post here again because I'm tired of hearing it. I suggest using a computer if you want to make positive contributions to the article. You always use the mobile website and it's hard to edit that way. Random86 (talk) 07:36, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

References for Videography

Hey R86, what sources can we use to reference the music video? Can it be YT direct links? Or does it have to be from a news source? Thanks :) --TerryAlex (talk) 15:16, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Secondary sources are probably better. I assume you are thinking of Girls' Generation videography? That page needs an overhaul, and since the music videos are also on the discography page it is partially redundant. I think the MVs should be taken off the discography page and the videography page formatted more like Madonna videography and Justin Timberlake videography (featured lists). I'll probably attempt this soon. Random86 (talk) 03:53, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Finding references for MV in news sources will be a tough thing though. Do you think Mwave and Melon will work buddy? They do have all the music videos. You know I always appreciate all your help. Thanks always :)--TerryAlex (talk) 06:53, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

What are the references for? Random86 (talk) 05:50, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm thinking that the "Ref" column has to be fully referenced, right? I created this draft. Note that it's incomplete as I only want to see how we are gonna do this. Should we combine MV and Dance version together? I know practice room videos should be taken out.--TerryAlex (talk) 18:41, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm thinking of revamping a couple of articles. Will you help trim and copy-edit like last time? Thank you :)--TerryAlex (talk) 03:20, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Sure. :) Random86 (talk) 05:40, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Sandbox 1 & Sandbox 2. Trying to bring out their persona and career as much as possible. Same deal as before. Please help me to trim/rephrase/fix anything you think is appropriate. Thanks so much buddy. (Take your time, of course)--TerryAlex (talk) 03:03, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Apparently, Drmies trimmed some of the stuff for Yoona. Do you think they were excessive and trivial? Because I thought those things are absolutely relevant regarding her career. If you look at Justin Timberlake article, there is a short paragraph on Nsync, so I don't see how a couple of sentences on GG is considered excessive, and she is a CF queen, how is that promotional? I work hard on trying to make those articles complete, and because we worked together on that, so let me know what you think. I always trust your judgment.--TerryAlex (talk) 23:17, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

• I don't know where to draw the line for some of this. Some of it might be unnecessary trivia, like the fact that she gives letters to the staff and is the ideal type of celebrities. I would at least add back "Yoona is regarded as a 'television commercial queen' among the South Korean public, and has been a spokesperson for many brands" because that section needs something at the beginning to give context. Not sure about the ambassador/charity work, but it was a little overly detailed.
• I've noticed cameo appearances and music video appearances on featured lists, such as Priyanka Chopra filmography, so I don't totally understand the "not a resume" statement. Do you know anything about the musical cameo?
• I thought "Prior to debuting, Yoona was introduced to the public through various appearances in music videos and commercials; she first appeared in TVXQ's "Magic Castle" music video in 2005" was relevant since that is how her career started, but I don't know if the number of auditions is important.
• I'll have to think more about the other things that were removed. I understand some of it. For example "She has since become known for taking the center position on stage" maybe isn't necessary since the previous sentence says she is the center. The part about GG in the beginning of "2008–present" didn't have the best flow. I would probably just add something like "The group gained significant popularity with the release of their hit single 'Gee' in 2009." to the early life section. Random86 (talk) 07:08, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

It's always good to have you see it from a non-fan's point of view. I thought the fact that she is a "television commercial queen" and "was first introduced through music videos..." need to be added back at least. About charities work, some celebrities have a whole "Philanthropy" section, why can't we briefly talk about it here? The fact that she donated 100 million won is notable, isn't it? And a couple of sentences on GG was meant to highlight her accomplishment being a part of the group, so I just can't see why it is excessive (though some rewording might be needed). You know what I mean?

I did not care about it as much before, but I have started wondering about whether we should have the MV appearances or not too. The musical was not an "actual release" though, I think it's one of those shows that was shown at those SM stores, though I might be wrong. --TerryAlex (talk) 10:22, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

I've read some Wikipedia biographies before, like Taylor Swift, for example, and thought some stuff was a bit overly detailed and excessive. But when you read the article as a whole, we get a complete picture about her career and life. So that is the kind of mindset I have when putting these things together. We don't have the kind of information to write a 16-page article obviously, but I hope to put together some condense, yet complete, articles. Nowhere do I think YA's was anywhere near perfect, but I thought it was somewhat decent. Sometimes, you can't just say this is excessive and take it out, then the part that comes after that would become incomplete. Isn't biography about a complete picture about someone's life? If she has done charity work, for example, shouldn't we at least mention it? I mean, you know I'm not the kind of unreasonable editors, but I don't like, in my opinion, how her article has become incomplete now. (Feel like I can talk freely to you, I think you understand what my perspective on things is.) :)--TerryAlex (talk) 16:42, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Actually I've always wondered about that "CF queen" label. I never heard her referred to like that when I was in Korea, and she wasn't really in that many CFs, not high visibility at all. Compared to someone like Song Joong-ki, 2PM, Kim Soo-hyeon, Lee Seung-gi (who was literally everywhere), or for females, Kim Tae-hee, even Hyuna were all much more omnipresent than her. I am just wondering who is calling her a CF queen. I mean this to be helpful, not insulting; I'm not asking you this to make you prove it to me, but to help you evaluate the situation objectively. Also, regarding philanthropy, is she known for being a frequent donor or was one of her donations especially unusual or controversial or noteworthy? Some celebs are actually known for being donors, like Kim Dong-wan or that one young actress whose name I forgot who donated anonymously for years before being outed. Or some specific donations, such as JYJ's donation to the Japan tsunami in excess of that donated by the entirety of SM Entertainment, are notable. If it's just a one-time thing, it might not be necessary to put it in, because nearly all Korean celebs donate. I think because of the way kpop stuff often gets so bloated and promotional, Drmies is afraid of setting a precedence for having too many details in articles, and thus he sometimes trims excessively. Many kpop editors seem to feel that if a piece of info is in one article, it MUST be allowed in all others, regardless of context; also . Like that one editor who always complains on R86's talk page about Sistar articles. She even says, straight up, "if it's in GG's article, it MUST go in Sistar's". I think you can use your own judgement. :) Shinyang-i (talk) 23:35, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

There are news articles back in 2012 that talked about her being a "CF queen". Whether she is still one or not is irrelevant. The fact is she has had many endorsements and that should be mentioned. Regarding philanthropy, I find the fact that she has done charity work since young age is notable. She was also recently honored at the Honor Society for donating more than 100 million won, shouldn't that also worth a mention? The "personality" paragraph can go, but for everything else, there is ought to be something that can be added back. You know I never intend to use other articles as a comparison, but I do read some GA status articles to get a feel of how a biography should be like. If you look at "Beyonce" article for example, you will see that she has a section on "Destiny's Child" and this "In July 2002, Beyoncé continued her acting career playing Foxxy Cleopatra alongside Mike Myers in the comedy film, Austin Powers in Goldmember, which spent its first weekend atop the US box office and grossed $73 million". So for YA, I don't see how a couple of sentences on GG, how the drama YAMD got high ratings and how she was already well-known even though GG was not at the time are excessive. I'm not using this as a comparison, but the idea I'm trying to say is you have to fit the pieces together to make a complete biography. And no, I don't think everything I do is right, that is why I always seek Random86 for his/her opinion, though I know he/she gets really annoyed with me by now. :p --TerryAlex (talk) 03:45, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry, you seem upset at what I said. I didn't mean anything negative. I only mentioned the CF Queen thing (I don't live in Korea now; I did in 2012 and was just sharing my perceptions that she didn't seem exceptionally pervasive in advertising and wondered about her being called that) and the charity thing. I really have no opinion on the other issues nor did I say anything you wrote was excessive. I was trying to be helpful and maybe give insight on why Drmies might have trimmed things, not say you were right or wrong. I'm sorry to have apparently have worded my thoughts so badly. I'll butt out now. Shinyang-i (talk) 05:02, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

No, I'm not mad, sometimes words can be just a bit "misleading". Just trying to get my point across. :)--TerryAlex (talk) 05:06, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

@TerryAlex: Philanthropy sections are common, so charity work can be mentioned. Perhaps the tone was too non-neutral, and that's why Drmies thought it was promotional? It may have been overly detailed as well. Donating 100 million won certainly sounds notable. I also know what you mean about highlighting her accomplishments as part of GG. The music video appearances were mostly unsourced, but it seems common to include them in filmographies like I said before.

The "personality" paragraph can go, but for everything else, there is ought to be something that can be added back. I agree with this, and I am planning on adding some things back, some re-worded. Your work on the article made it way better than it was before, so hopefully it can become even better because of this. By the way, I found a 2011 article saying she earned 300,000 won per music video as a trainee, and 900 million won per drama episode and 300 million won per solo CF after debuting. (But, I don't understand the 50 billion in 2011 figure.)

I know he/she gets really annoyed with me by now. :p Nope, I'm not annoyed at all. I've been very busy IRL the last few days. For the record, I'm a "she". :)

@Shinyang-i: IU, Jun Ji-hyun, Suzy, Lee Hyori, Han Hyo-joo and more were also called CF queens according to my quick search. It's a term the media uses and it just means they had a lot of CFs or earned a lot of money per CF. Yoona's Wiki article says "In 2012, she appeared in at least 20 commercials and was ranked fifth among celebrities with the most commercial appearances". Random86 (talk) 07:27, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Ah, see that makes more sense to me, it being a term used for anyone who, at that moment, is doing well in CFs. I thought it was being used as a term exclusive to Yoona, which made me question the source, since it didn't jive with reality. I'll just say that living in Korea + training in understanding media play does not produce viewpoints popular with kpop fans or those Koreans who are desperately invested in promoting Korea to the world, and is another reason I don't really want to touch these articles anymore. It's my poor judgement for thinking anyone would give a shit about what I think or know, as I should know better by now. Shinyang-i (talk) 16:03, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Shinyang-i, don't get so easily offended all the time. Just chill, buddy. Anyways, since you have lived in Korea, I just assumed that you know that the term that has been used many times by the media. I did not mean YA was/is the only "queen". I know Kpop can be a bit promotional all the time. But really, she is a South Korean, and she has had many endorsements in her native country. It is a part of her "commercial success". I'm against a list of endorsements, but I don't see anything wrong with having a short paragraph highlighting that part of her "achievements". Many celebrities have been coined by that term, Yoona is/was one among them, but not all celebrities got that either. For example, you don't hear other GG members being coined by the same term.--TerryAlex (talk) 18:09, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

You're one of the most levelheaded kpop fans I've met, so I was just surprised to see you appear to get upset at what I thought were pretty innocent comments, including things I didn't even mention (personality, GG role, etc). I guess, also, that I am hyper-sensitive when it comes to possible over-glorifying of kpop, especially GG; I was once fired from a job in Korea because, when asked, I told my boss that "no" GG are not as famous in the USA as Madonna. That's how f'd up the media are when it comes to GG - many Korean adults believe that crap. (Oddly, the kids are generally much more savvy at seeing through nationalistic exaggeration.) So just ignore me; as I said earlier, I wasn't trying to get you to prove things to me, just to think about them in a larger context. I will refrain from any more GG-related comments. Shinyang-i (talk) 18:33, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Shinyang-i, didn't I already clarify that I was not upset? You cannot expect other people to have the same opinion as you all the time though :). Whether you like GG as a group or not is a personal preference, I have nothing against that and I also respect that, I treat it as we just don't have the same interest. :) --TerryAlex (talk) 19:02, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Random86, for understanding my point of view. Regarding "personality", my original intention when I put it in there was because I thought personality (especially on variety shows, etc) does plays an important role within the Kpop world. It also partly explains someone's image in the public eye. So that was why I had it there, but if it's unnecessary, I can let it go :). For everything else, I trust that you can help me put back all the necessary things (I think the 50 billion won figure takes into account GG as a whole group, but perhaps we can mention her individual fee per drama/solo CF as you have mentioned). Thanks always. :)--TerryAlex (talk) 16:53, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Tiffany (South Korean singer) vs Tiffany (American singer)

Hi, I'm thinking of moving Tiffany (South Korean singer) → Tiffany Hwang, and Tiffany (American singer) → Tiffany Darwish to avoid misconception. Tiffany Hwang was born in the United States, so she's undeniably American (however people thought she is Korean because she is based in South Korea), meanwhile, Tiffany Darwish is also American, which is quite confusing. What do you think? Simon (talk) 08:34, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Simon: Since we don't even know if Tiffany (South Korean singer) is a South Korean citizen, she probably shouldn't be called "South Korean singer". The only problem is, Tiffany's name has never been Tiffany Hwang so I don't know if that is a good title either. Random86 (talk) 04:00, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

I don't know why Tiffany the American singer goes by her first name, but if we can move her article to her full name, then Tiffany's can be changed to "Tiffany (singer)"? Just a thought.--TerryAlex (talk) 20:40, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) - The American Singer (Tiffany Darwish) can get the go-ahead with the re-naming in my personal opinion. But the South Korean singer, Stephanie Hwang, is a bit more tricky to decide whether or not she can be named to Tiffany Hwang. I personally don't think that Tiffany (singer) is appropriate for this Tiffany in this case, just because there might be other Tiffany's from the US that sing (like Tiffany Foxx for example). I don't know if there are any other Tiffany's from OTHER countries which might also be known by their stage name of simply, Tiffany. In Stephanie's case (Tiffany from GG), you might want to consult a few admins/users for advise on what to do as I can't decide myself on what she should be named as. Tibbydibby (talk) 21:38, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

And so it goes on...

Hello. Long time, no see. Regarding the recent post on my talk page, if you'd like to continue the discussion with that editor, I'd be happy to steer them your way. Since they accused me of "deleting" stuff through merging and not doing a lick of research, I don't think I can say any more than I already have. It's never-ending discussions of that sort that I have endeavored to escape by mostly leaving Wikipedia. So if the editor responds, can I send them your way? Shinyang-i (talk) 07:15, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

@Shinyang-i: Sure, send them here if you think it would help. You said it all in your reply though. By the way, I saw the peer review for Shinhwa discography. Are you still planning on trying for featured list? Random86 (talk) 07:23, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

I dunno, I feel kind of stuck with the process, unsure what to do next. I'm scared to start the FL review process, although after the amount of serious problems with the Girls' Generation discog when it passed, I shouldn't be. I feel like there's some other step I should do beforehand, but don't know what it would be. Do you have any ideas? Shinyang-i (talk) 07:34, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Well, the worst is it will not pass the process, so I think you should give it a try. Anyways, for GG discog, I think the majority of dead links have been replaced, but I noticed that there are still two dead links (Gee and Genie MV), if you can find the replacement for them, please do. Also, Shinyang-i, do you know if we can find good references for (award) nominations? It seems to me and R86 that Korean news never reports on them. Thanks.--TerryAlex (talk) 14:43, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

I realize the dead links on the GG discog came about at a later time; that wasn't the issue. The biggest problem was that a lot of sales claims had no actual references, just links to the front page of Oricon or something like that, and it was that way at the time it passed the FL review. There were also problems with the first few releases, claiming they charted on Gaon, which they did not; they charted on RIAK. I have zero interest in GG so it's unlikely I will break my neck finding sources for them (no offense); my attention to the article came because it was the only available model for a kpop FL discog, and so I studied that version of the article. :/ As for award nominations, 'fraid not. Most kpop award info used on Wikipedia comes from primary sources, which is the problem. I gave up on those articles, even Shinhwa's. But if you're weeding out those articles' contents, then good luck - I mean that sincerely. I'll definitely drop you any info I do run across. Shinyang-i (talk) 19:53, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

It's good that you are now deciding to improve on Shinhwa's articles. Keep up the good work.--TerryAlex (talk) 20:34, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

@Random86 and TerryAlex: Well guys, I took the plunge and made the nomination. I know it's stupid to be nervous, but I am, ha ha. BTW, I didn't mean to sound harsh when I said I don't care about GG. Regarding Shinhwa articles, it's tiring; it takes so much time to find even tiny bits of info because of the time lag. I lose my mojo real quick. Shinyang-i (talk) 22:55, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

I went ahead and made some changes based on other featured lists, WP:DISCOGSTYLE and MOS:ACCESS. Good luck! Random86 (talk) 05:28, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very, very much! Those are exactly the kinds of things I was worried about; I don't know much about "correct" table syntax so I really appreciate your changes! Shinyang-i (talk) 08:18, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Table scopes

Again, I really appreciate the edits you made with the tables on Shinhwa discography. One change you made was adding ! scope="row" to several rows, and I was hoping you could explain what that means? What is the purpose of the scope statements? (if you know) How do I know on which lines something like that needs to be used? Is column scope a thing? No one's assessed the article at all so far, so I'm a little panicky, ha ha. Also, I feel like I owe you for all that work. What kind of refs are you guys looking for on the GG music videos? Shinyang-i (talk) 23:14, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

It is further explained on WP:DTT. It's new to me, so I can't really explain it better than that. I see now that I missed some (scope="col" should be after the ! on "Title", "Album details", etc.) I will add these later, but feel free to do it yourself. I have a few proposed changes, so I'll probably comment on the FLC page later today. I don't want to support until I'm sure I understand the criteria. There is a backlog but hopefully others will comment too. Random86 (talk) 01:19, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

The criteria are really vague, which is a lot of what has bothered me so much about the process. I didn't get a lot of feedback on anything but the lead during peer review, so I was left wondering if the rest was good, was crap, was confusing, or what. It's unnerving to me, ha ha, because I can't tell if there are expectations beyond the obvious. I did some reading there, and it seems there is a lot of bias against song and discog lists because of various issues, so I'm afraid people will avoid it. Oh well, I should stop worrying. I look forward to your suggestions. :) Shinyang-i (talk) 01:54, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Overdose (EP)

Hello there, as you may know, I'm a certified n00b on wiki. I created the page "Overdose (Exo album)" knowing that "Overdose (EP)" already existed. I just didn't know how to turn into an article. Anyways, I read through someone else's contributions that Overdose once had an article last year. Why did it turn into a redirect link? Idealtype 15:02, 15 June 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Idealtype (talk • contribs)

Hello Idealtype. Overdose (EP) was created by an editor who didn't understand copyrights. Once all the copyvios and single-vendor charts were removed there wasn't much left so I redirected the article. You can undo the redirect by editing this version, but it will need to expanded with more prose based on reliable sources. Helpful pages include WP:NALBUM, WP:KO/RS, and WP:EDRED. Happy editing! Random86 (talk) 23:04, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

What to do for Bigbang tour page

Hi Random86, I'm posting because I'm unsure about what to do with a page and thought I should ask a more experienced editor. The article MADE 2015 World Tour has been deleted once in afd Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/MADE 2015 World Tour and once again by an admin through speedy deletion when it was recreated 11 days later. It's back up and though I think it has changed a bit, the changes are not in anyway beneficial to fixing the page's notability issues. I am at this point unsure if I should submit for a second afd since the changes, I think, negate speedy deletion or if I should try to talk it out with the editors since at least one is an editor who put it up the second time, ...or maybe just let it go for a bit as they are still updating stuff (but again I don't think they will have enough). I hope you can just give me some direction or thoughts on what to do since I am not as knowledgeable about Wikipedia guidelines and etiquette. Thank you!Peachywink (talk) 15:11, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Peachywink: As you can see, the page has been speedily deleted again. I didn't see any major differences, and the prose was the same. Random86 (talk) 01:37, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Yeah I saw that you put in for the speedy delete and am sorry to have to bug people with the question. I just am not very aware yet of how much a page should change before a speedy delete isn't an option despite reading the guidelines but I think I am slowly getting a better idea now.Peachywink (talk) 18:47, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

G-Dragon and Kiko

why r u editing GD's personal life? Its true that he is in relationship with KIko. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.26.195.50 (talk) 08:02, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

@103.26.195.50: If it's true, you should have no trouble finding a reliable source. Please read some of the pages linked on your talk page to learn how to do this. Random86 (talk) 01:33, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

cho seunghee

I don't know why you always deleted my page. my information about cho seunghee is true but it always deteled. i always write source . I WANT TO SAY : PLEASE DON'T DELETED IT , this page is true !!!!!!! Jessiejung (talk) 02:17, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Truth not does equal notability. See my reply at Talk:Seung-hee (Singer and Actress). Random86 (talk) 02:42, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Hello Random86, can you edit page Koh Na-young for me, please ? Jessiejung (talk) 09:02, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi Random86,Wiki said:This biographical article needs additional citations for verification. Please help by adding reliable sources. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous or harmful. CAN YOU EDIT IT FOR ME,PLEASE Jessiejung (talk) 02:56, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Jessiejung: If Koh Na-young is a topic you are interested in, you should improve it yourself. If you need help with something specific I will try to help you. However, Koh Na-young is most likely not notable so there may not be anything you can do. By the way, if you want to send me more messages don't use barnstars and WikiLove templates inappropriately. You can send a message without using those. (Click "new section" for a new topic, otherwise edit the existing topic.) Random86 (talk) 04:38, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Jessiejung, did you read the above message? Please don't respond using WikiLove because that is not how you send normal messages. There is nothing I can do to improve Koh Na-young because she is not notable. Random86 (talk) 06:56, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Reference changes

Hello. I had some questions about the changes you made to the reference formatting on Shinhwa discography. How did you figure out whether something goes in the "work", "website", or "publisher" field? One editor is nitpicking a lot of stuff and when I looked at the references I realized they're quite different from when I last viewed them, but I can't really see the logic behind many of the changes. Not saying you did it wrong, just wanted to know what rules you were following (since we'd both been murky on the issue previously). Like I don't necessarily see why "website=KBS World Radio, publisher=Korean Broadcasting System" is wrong and "publisher=KBS World Radio" is correct, or how you (or anyone) would know to format it the latter way instead of the former. Also, there was no "of" in the RIAK's name on the old website, hence its absence from the article. And why change the Korean language template from "lang-ko" to "Korean"?

Also, why the change from "last=Hong, first=Gil-dong" to "author=Hong Gil-dong"? If the former is wrong then why is it in the citation template? (not challenging you, just trying to figure this mess out.) For author names in Korean-language articles, WP:KOREA actually says to use the first & last fields to write "last=Hong 홍, first=Gil-dong 길동". Obviously I haven't gone so far as to add the hangul, ha ha.

By the way, I hate this process and am never doing it again, LOL. I don't think 90% of the requested changes enhance the article quality. Kind of funny when you consider the kpop editors who've accused us of being overly picky when compared to the absurd level of non-substantive nitpicking that goes on outside the little kpop bubble! LOL~ Shinyang-i (talk) 18:56, 4 July 2015 (UTC)