Talk:July–August 2022 United States floods

Kentucky

Should the Kentucky floods be added to this page? They happened so close together, and it appears to me the same system that caused the Missouri floods hit the area in Kentucky that flooded. Bn5660 (talk) 05:16, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

We need a source to directly link them. This is one of the problem that has come to light recently with numerous complications. Basically, this article use to be only for the Missouri floods, aka 2022 Missouri floods. A new article, 2022 Eastern Kentucky floods was created for the Kentucky floods today. A few hours after the Kentucky article was created, the creator of the 2022 Missouri floods article renamed this article to the 2022 Southeast floods. Minutes later, the same editor began an AfD on the 2022 Eastern Kentucky article saying “The other article 2022 Southeast floods happened at the same time and has a similar flood location. 2022 Eastern Kentucky floods may be deleted if you do not explain why it is different floods.” Later, a behind the scenes cleanup editor renamed the 2022 Southeast floods to the July 2022 United States floods, and were unaware of the AfD in progress. The AfD nominator then recently tried to redirect/blank the 2022 Eastern Kentucky article even with the ongoing AfD. They have been asked to provide a reliable source directly connecting the July 24-26 Missouri floods to the July 28 Kentucky floods, which was asked prior to the article redirect/blanking. In a way, it appears one editor is trying their hardest to merge the articles without providing any sources, so based on WP:OR. Based on my own original research, I think the floods are probably connected, but Wikipedia cannot act on that without a reliable source. So that’s the situation. This merge became super complicated with an editor who is determined to merge the articles without providing a source or responding to AfD directions nor source requests. Elijahandskip (talk) 05:25, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

All of that is to say that I am currently moving this article back to the 2022 Missouri floods as a way to let the real AfD take place and get the nominator (or someone at least) to link a source connecting the floods to the same storm system. Once a source is found, it should be a simple merge if that one editor just let’s the process happen. Elijahandskip (talk) 05:26, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Elijahandskip it seems that most editors don´t agree with you don't worry though we moved most of the text to July 2022 United States floods if you think anything is wrong go to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2022 Eastern Kentucky floods Cabin134 (talk) 15:40, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Please refer to your talk page. Two times now you have disregarded the directions of the discussion you began. Elijahandskip (talk) 15:43, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Here's an article from the Associated Press: EXPLAINER: One weather system floods St. Louis and Kentucky Ionmars10 (talk) 17:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

So basically I shouldn’t add info about E Kentucky to this article like I was going to lol Bn5660 (talk) 06:00, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

This is slightly relevant to this discussion. Elijahandskip (talk) 17:05, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

@Cabin134 and Bn5660: These should be combined as one article to prevent unnecessary confusion and content splitting. It should be okay to go ahead and add content about Missouri, Kentucky, and Las Vegas to this article. United States Man (talk) 17:08, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

No. See my reply to your !vote below. Right now is a mess and you are only encouraging a disruptive editor to create a CFORK confusion at an AfD. Elijahandskip (talk) 17:11, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

It’s really not a mess. Just take these two short articles and make one longer page. It’s very simple. United States Man (talk) 17:14, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

The point is, we can’t without creating a CFORK because Cabin134 started a stupid AfD discussion and is now trying to not properly close it and accuses anyone (aka me) who wants to do a proper closure of vandalism. Elijahandskip (talk) 17:16, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

That discussion will be snowball closed soon. Then just merge them and include information about Las Vegas as well. I would help but currently on mobile. Not meaning to get mad at you because we all seem to want the same thing here. No need to jump through all these hoops. United States Man (talk) 17:19, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

For the article content, we are on the same page. In terms of the ANI, we are not, so I am done here, but recommend you truly look at the ANI, because currently you are perfectly ok with an editor causing disruption and ignoring talk page alerts. Elijahandskip (talk) 17:21, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

You really don’t know what I’m okay with. I do think running to AN/I right off the bat was highly unnecessary. When you have fresh events, you have to let all the random editors do their thing and just go back later and clean up. It works a whole lot easier for everyone and these discussions aren’t necessary. United States Man (talk) 17:23, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

so apperntly, some pepole dissagre with me like @Elijahandskip, and@United States Man this is a very serious edit war it stared when @Cabin134:The other article 2022 Southeast floods happened at the same time and has a similar flood location. 2022 Eastern Kentucky floods may be deleted if you do not explain why it is different floods. @Elijahandskip:No sources directly linking this storm system to the storm that caused the Missouri (St. Louis) floods two days ago (July 26). If you can provide a source that directly links both floods to the same storm, then my !vote will switch to a support, but without any source doing so, any deletion/merge would not be a good idea per WP:OR. Another thing to point out, the nominator moved the 2022 Missouri floods to the current title of 2022 Southeast floods without discussions as a way to start this AfD to combine the articles. (1), I cannot find a direct source linking the two floods to the exact same storm system and (2), the rename first then AfD seems slightly off, especially since the nomination said “happened at the same time”, which is false since the Missouri floods began on the 26th and these began not he 28th. Why? is it diffrent. Cabin134 (talk) 21:28, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

@Cabin134: You seem to not be listening to anyone. The problem is not with the merge. The entire issue is you redirecting/merging 2022 Eastern Kentucky floods while the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2022 Eastern Kentucky floods is ongoing. That discussion takes 7 days, not a few hours, so you cannot merge/redirect the article until it ends. Numerous messages on your talk page state that and the discussion at the Administrators noticeboard state that. Elijahandskip (talk) 21:33, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

stop making Fantisty predictons @Elijahandskip I think you are not the one that is not listing the reason I am doing this is because 2 days ago i found this article on the National Weather Service

[web.archive.org/web/https://www.weather.gov/ind/flooding] wich said both floods merged on July 27, 2022. Cabin134 (talk) 21:58, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 29 July 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by nominator. United States Man (talk) 18:32, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

---

July 2022 United States floods → 2022 Missouri floods – Article is currently still over just the Missouri floods, as there is currently a different article for the 2022 Eastern Kentucky floods. That article is current under an AfD, which was nominated by this articles creator. The section above this gives a history of the two articles, but in short, no discussions took place about merging the two, just the article creator saying, from what appears to be WP:OR they were the same flood. Elijahandskip (talk) 11:36, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Note: I attempted a speedy deletion request [1] to do the move myself, but it was declined, so here we are, so my !vote as nominator is more a speedy move because of the AfD/article problems mentioned above.Elijahandskip (talk) 11:39, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

• Support As events are seperate, though I question if this alone is enough, as this is similar to the 2014 New York flood which got redirected; I think it should be merged to the more general US flood article. 50.200.241.190 (talk) 11:45, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
• Support, they're separate events and the page move was jumping the gun. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:03, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose – Since these floods occurred in quick succession, I believe they should all be combined into one article. Missouri and Kentucky are somewhat related with a stalled frontal boundary, and Las Vegas could be included as well. Nothing says we need different short articles for different events instead of having one comprehensive article about everything. United States Man (talk) 17:05, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

United States Man: That’s not the point currently. This whole situation is a mess, especially with the article’s creator and 2022 Eastern Kentucky floods AfD nominator now involved in an ANI discussion for accusations and multiple editor alert disregards. In the end, they probably all will be combined into an article of this title, but currently, this is just for the Missouri floods due to the whole situation. (Section above titled “Kentucky” explains the history of this mess and a link to the ANI.) Right now, this needs to be speedy moved so a true larger merge discussion can take place without a disruptive editor in the middle causing issues all around. Elijahandskip (talk) 17:09, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

How about you quit with move requests and just take all the content and put it in one place? That would be a great deal simpler and no one seems to oppose that. United States Man (talk) 17:13, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

How about you stop encouraging a disruptive editor to continue being disruptive, creating CFORKS, and accusations of vandalism. Elijahandskip (talk) 17:15, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

hey Elijahandskip, you are being very inaproptate for saying words like disruptive vandalism and stop the argment it is really simple it is very wrong or elese you sould be blocked. Cabin134 (talk) 21:09, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Pointing out for editors that Cabin134 was partially blocked by an admin from editing 2022 Eastern Kentucky floods for 24 hours. Elijahandskip (talk) 22:18, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

• Withdrawing: Seems like the articles current process is good. Having a section for the Kentucky floods with the main article link attached too it. Since 2022 Eastern Kentucky floods had a keep AfD that surprisingly did not have a lot of merge comments, a true merge proposal should be done if anyone wants to merge the two articles truly together. Enough information is coming from the Kentucky floods plus an ITN nomination, it probably has enough notability as a stand-alone article. Elijahandskip (talk) 15:00, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 2 August 2022

July 2022 United States floods → 2022 United States summer floods – Floods are still ongoing and stretched two summer months (July & August). With this being an ITN article, this requested move has to be done over a WP:BOLD move. Elijahandskip (talk) 12:47, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose – It does need to be renamed, but this is not the proper title. July–August would be preferred. United States Man (talk) 14:11, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Proposal: Remove information about flooding in Death Valley and California/Arizona from this article

Those flooding/flood events are insignificant and are part of the regular monsoon season that happens every year. Last year, in July 2021, there was more severe flooding that was happening in Arizona due to a much wetter monsoon season than this year's, yet there's no separate page about that. Also, Death Valley has flooded multiple times in the past few years, but there's no separate page for any of those flood events. Like I know in 2019 Death Valley flooded once also.

If you really want to add about the Southwest flood events on Wikipedia, there are pages called "List of floods" or "List of flood events" for example and you can add it there. But it isn't important enough to be added to this article.

Another thing is that the Midwest floods actually were all part of the same weather pattern, but the Southwest floods have nothing to do with them. I propose removing them from this article and renaming this article to something like "2022 Midwest floods" or "2022 Midwest and Appalachia floods" or something like that. Thanks. EagerBeaverPJ (talk) 18:30, 2 August 2022 (UTC)