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Talk:59th Guards Motor Rifle Division

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Buckshot06 (talk | contribs) at 10:05, 5 January 2008 (→Campaigns in Romania and Bulgaria). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Campaigns in Romania and Bulgaria

I'm unable to verify the Army with which this division served after Yassy-Kishinev Offensive, and only in the initial Kishinev-Izmail phase. It then appears with the 2nd Ukranian Front in the Belgord operation a month later, so it seems that the division. Although it was the 2nd Uranian Front that conducted the Debreccen Offensive, the 46th Army was not a part of it, so I'm not sure what Army the division was with. Its difficult to accept that the 46th could have been an active participant in the Debrecen operation if it is given as a participant Army in the first phase of the Budapesht Offensive (Kechkemet-Budapesht offensive Кечкемет-Будапештская наступательная) that begun when the Debrecen ended-- mrg3105mrg3105 07:29, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(copied from Buckshot06's talk page.) Buckshot06, the Soviet OOB in the BoD article is taken from the BSSA. The German official history (volume 8, p. 872) notes that Tolbuhkin had to give up the 46th Army and the 7th artillery division to Malinovksy's 2nd UkF prior to the Debrecen Operation. In any event, 46th Army was on the far southern flank of the Debrecen Operation, and according to the maps of the Soviet official history, moved along the axis Szeged - Velencei Lake from October 12 until December 20. The German official history map shows the 37th GRC (of which 59th GRD was a part in November) about 40 kilometers SE of Budapest on 3.11.44. Certainly, the 59th GRD was not part of the battle for the city of Debrecen itself, but the Soviet official history describes the operations of the 46th Army during this period as part of the Debrecen Operation. As well, Poirier and Conner show the 59th GRD as having been part of the Debrecen Operation although it is not listed among the official battle honors they note for the division.

The Battle of Debrecen article itself is not really mine, I made major edits to it because the articles previous POV was so pro-German as to have implied the Soviets suffered a major defeat at Debrecen which was a curious interpretation of events. You can view my editor's notes for the article at Talk:Battle of Debrecen. user:W. B. Wilson Inserted by Buckshot06Buckshot06 (talk) 10:05, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Battle for Kramatorsk and other notes

  • I have found veteran's recollection on the battle for the city, and there is several pages worth. Do you wan them? There is even a divisional song. It will take time to translate that though
  • The participation of the division in Debrecen operation is somewhat suspect. I was unable to find a second source beyond Poirier and Conner, however I have to admit that I didn't look hard.
  • In the 1990s OOB there is a weid little bit of Russian I left. It says that the AT MT-LBTs were there but without the anti-tank weapons - in the Anti-Aircraft unit. I should hope not. I think its a mistake in the original translation, and the unit should be Anti-Tank. What puzzles me is what were the weapons that were not there?
  • I didn't do references - sorry -- mrg3105mrg3105 13:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Battle honours

These need to be cleaned up. Soviet units don't have Battle honours as such, each being reflected by either an addition of a honorific name or an award. However there is a database of Liberation of cities which lists units that participated in the liberation of more significant population centres. So the possibility is to use: Operation participation
Award for a battle
participation in liberation of a city
or a combination of all three?-- mrg3105mrg3105 00:11, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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