Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive326

Move Request Needs to be Closed on Extended Protected Page

I opened up a move discussion at the Talk:2020_Nagorno-Karabakh_conflict#Proposal:_Rename_to_2020_Nagorno-Karabakh_War. As WP:RM states that the WP:RM page is only for controversial moves, and aS prior move discussion made in relation to a different name seemed to have a consensus to rename the page to 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh War, it did not seem to be a controversial move but opened an informal move discussion on the talk page to confirm that that was the case. As I predicted, there is overwhelming support for the proposed name change, but since I opened up the discussion the page has been extended-protected and an administrator is now needed to move the page. If someone could close the discussion and move the page, as there is clearly a consensus for the change, I would appreciate it.XavierGreen (talk) 13:50, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

XavierGreen, While there does seem to be consensus to rename, what to rename to is still up in the air because some advocate "2020 Nagorno-Karabakh War", and others advocate "Second Nagorno-Karabakh War", and there seems to be disagreement over whether it is the second or third war, given the Four-Day War, or if its a continuation of the first war. (Imo, we're having this debate because we're ignoring RS and making our own original research...but whatever). Regardless, discussion is ongoing and I think a close premature. There is no need to rush to rename the page. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 19:19, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

I would just note that virtually all of the editors agree that the title should be changed to include the term "war", of which there are plenty of cited sources to rely on provided in the talk page discussion. Furthermore, if you look at the number of editors advocating for "Second Nagorno-Karabakh War" They are a small minority of the responding editors, 20% or so, where as the overwhelming majority favor a move to "2020 Nagorno-Karabakh War."XavierGreen (talk) 20:42, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Problematic editor

Moved to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents § problematic user

 – Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:26, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Appeal of a copyright problem

An editor has filed a request at DRN in which User:AvThomson disagrees with User:Diannaa and wants to discuss. I assume that DRN is not the place for discussion of a copyright issue. I know most of the dispute resolution forums that are not DRN to send editors to. Where should this dispute be discussed? Robert McClenon (talk) 15:33, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

WP:MCQ? --Jayron32 15:35, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

That's for images, not text. Moneytrees🏝️^{Talk🌴Help out at CCI!} 16:59, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Copyright problems then. --Jayron32 17:04, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Robert McClenon, This is not a matter appropriate for DRN. From my understanding, DRN is for content disputes, not questioning copyright issues. This would probably best be discussed at AN/ANI/CP (where it is already listed), although AvThomson is in the wrong, as there is clear close paraphrasing on the effected article. Moneytrees🏝️^{Talk🌴Help out at CCI!} 17:05, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

User:Moneytrees - Sort of thank you. DRN is for content disputes. Conduct disputes go to WP:ANI or AE. I knew that. I knew that I should tell the filer to go somewhere else; I just wanted to know where else. To tell an editor, "I can't help you, and I don't know who can," is a way of biting a user, and the rule says not to do that. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:55, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Help wanted

Talk:Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory is a hot mess. Can a couple of uninvolved admins please come along and hat / close / archive some of the repetitive requests so that we stand some chance of focusing on the substantive (and valid) questions of exactly how to represent the developing narrative without giving undue weight to speculative claims. Guy (help! - typo?) 11:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

(non-admin) Fully agreed. I have been answering and removing edit requests for the last week. Asartea ^{Trick | Treat} 13:25, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

I archived a few that seemed off-topic or repetitive. — Wug·a·po·des​ 00:22, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Issue with Speedy Deletion criteria G4. Recreation of a page that was deleted per a deletion discussion

Hi all

I'm sorry if this is not the correct place to post this, it includes the work of admins so it seemed a sensible place. I've recently been involved in a speedy deletion discussion as the creator of the article under criteria G4. Recreation of a page that was deleted per a deletion discussion and I've noticed an issue with the process that seems like it stops people making a decision based on evidence. The criteria states that it includes sufficiently identical copies and excludes pages that are not substantially identical to the deleted version. However people like me who do not have the rights to see deleted articles have no way of making an assessment whether a previously deleted article is identical or not. As an example, in this nomination 50%+ of the references were not available at the time of deletion so I assume that it is not identical but have no way to tell.

Thanks

John Cummings (talk) 12:51, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes, there are a lot of G4 requests where the inability to see the page is an issue (though, you can sometimes find the page through mirrors, and could ask, rather than taking the liable to be hostile to new editors act of noming for speedy deletion). However, if some of the references post-date the discussion, and deletion was on notability grounds, it should be obvious G4 doesn't apply. If you think a slight rewording might make it clearer, WT:CSD is the place to suggest it. WilyD 12:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

(ec)@John Cummings: I have declined the G4 tag. Much of the old version of the article contained quotes criticising the ABD; this version doesn't. The usual procedure for non-admins who can't see the previous version to cross compare is to contest the speedy on the talk page, which you did. If the article is deleted per G4 regardless, and you're not satisfied with the deleting admin's response, then the matter can be raised at deletion review, at which point the old article will usually be restored for evaluation purposes. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:57, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks very much both, I wonder if something like (apologies for poor grammar) this criteria should only be used if you have access to the previously deleted version of the article and can make it available on the talk page would help make it clearer? John Cummings (talk) 13:03, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

I would say that's a bad idea - only admins can see the deleted versions, and as the folks deleting the page itself that's all that is necessary; preventing someone from even nominating an article because they cannot see the text is just bad idea, because then you'd only have a few hundred active admins capable of nominating pages. Primefac (talk) 15:09, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) In addition, if you want to write an article but find that an article under that title was previously deleted (you will see a deletion log message before you can create the page), many admins will be pleased to send you a copy of the deleted article, as long as it hasn't been deleted because of copyright violations or other reasons we're not allowed to. You can ask the administrator who deleted the page, or anyone listed in Category:Wikipedia administrators willing to provide copies of deleted articles. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 13:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

@Ivanvector: thanks very much. John Cummings (talk) 13:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

I have to say that the deletion debate was pretty poor, with two !voters saying "Just not notable" and one saying "never heard of them". (By contrast, I have heard of them, because I know that they won't be sending George Monbiot a Christmas card any time soon.) Indeed, I'd almost treat that AfD like a PROD, since no reasonable arguments were made for the old article, which cited The Times, BBC News and the Daily Telegraph even then. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:08, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Ritchie333, agree - they are fringe loons, but probably notable fringe loons. Guy (help! - typo?) 15:27, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

As someone who knows an editor who nominates a lot of pages for G4, I would much rather have them nominate a page and decline it for being different than have garbage in the article space (and no, I'm not referring to this article). A speedy deletion nomination isn't some scarlet letter; it just means that someone (likely who didn't participate in the previous discussion) was concerned that it might be a duplicate. Primefac (talk) 15:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

A speedy deletion nomination is the kind of hostile welcome that drives a lot of new good faith editors off the project. In an era when declining participation is making some stuff more burdensome, recklessly driving away people for no benefit is not a good idea. WilyD 05:18, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

• I was shocked - shocked! - to see that the article was full of self-serving bullshit drawn from their own websites, with all the criticism missing. I restored the deleted history. Guy (help! - typo?) 15:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
  • For the avoidance of doubt, the version of the article you describe was not how John Cummings left it. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:05, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

"The" at start of a school's name

• Recently I was asked to move page Astley Cooper School to The Astley Cooper School on the grounds that adding the "The" was official school usage. Should such requests be obeyed? Or should the "The" be treated as an advertisory stylization and be ignored? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 11:40, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) Taking a look at WP:THE, convention states that if it meets at least one of two requirements:

1. Definite article would change the meaning, and
2. Definite article is capitalised in running prose

then "The" should (in most cases) appear in the title. #1 definitely isn't the case, and #2 is debatable. At this point I believe we're supposed to fall on WP:COMMONNAME, as this subsection implies:

When a proper name is almost always used with "The", especially if it is included by unaffiliated sources, the article "The" should be used in the name of the corresponding Wikipedia article as well.

Emphasis mine. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 11:54, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Note Ohio State University; they're a prominent example of insisting on the definite article and it's in the lead, but not the article title. Mackensen (talk) 12:02, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

This seems like a "case-by-case consensus" issue. Hold a discussion/RFC on whether or not "if it is included by unaffiliated sources" or not, and see where that goes. This doesn't appear like much of an admin issue; admins don't have special power to decide style issues, and this should be decided by a discussion among the interested. --Jayron32 12:05, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

(ec) This makes me think of "The" Ohio State University. I did go to the site of the school itself and the while school does formally call itself The Astley Cooper School, however local news coverage here does not do so. RickinBaltimore (talk) 12:05, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

• And see this Google search: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=%22Astley+Cooper+School%22+-%22The+Astley+Cooper+School%22 Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:43, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
• Goddam pretentious. EEng 20:33, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Mandatory IP masking incoming

Johan (WMF) has indicated that mandatory masking of the IP addresses of anonymous editors is being implemented for all Wikiprojects in the near-mid term (probably sometime in the next year or so), stating that this is an order from the WikiMedia Foundation's Legal Department. Apparently a statement from the Legal Department is forthcoming. As this is likely to hinder anti-vandalism efforts in the near-term, feedback is being requested to make this cause the least amount of disruption possible. Hemiauchenia (talk) 22:40, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Could IPs be put through some cipher or something so they have a persistent identity? Just a thought. (please  mention me on reply; thanks!) -- Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 22:43, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

IP addresses having a persistent identity is one of the things that is being considered. However if a vandal is rapidly going between ipv6 domains on the same range it becomes much more difficult to track them if the IP is masked, even if the identity of the individual IP address is persistent. Hemiauchenia (talk) 22:47, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Could someone explain what IP masking actually means? Does that mean, in particular, that we won't be able to look up the contribution history for a particular IP editor? And to tell that two edits were made by the same IP editor? Nsk92 (talk) 22:52, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

I think what is being proposed is that the actual IP address itself is not displayed, but the history of edits associated with that IP Address is preserved (at least in the short term). Hemiauchenia (talk) 22:56, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

That is how I read it too, but it could be worth asking Johan or someone to clarify. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 22:57, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

I asked for clarification in the Meta thread, but I am still pretty confused. If what you say above is correct, how would edits by different IPs be visually distinguished in page histories? And also in talk pages, where IP signatures are displayed? Right now we see the actual IP addresses there. What exactly would we see instead? If we see some generic phrase like "Anonymous IP editor", it will not allow to distingish which edits were made by which IP editor and I can't see how individual IP contrib histories can be preserved in this case. Or, is the system going to start assigning the IP ediors its internal identifiers, perhaps enumerating them in order of apperance, something like "Anonymous IP editor 4029", "Anonymous IP editor 4030", etc ? That would at least allow for the history of edits associated with a particular IP to be preserved and displayed. Nsk92 (talk) 23:28, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Amazing. There are security bugs (with legal implications, I would think) that have been sitting unfixed on phabricator for months or years. This is well past any normal responsible disclosure window. It's purely a courtesy that I'm keeping my mouth shut, and the next person who rediscovers the same bugs probably won't be so considerate. But legal instead prioritizes protecting the privacy of those who never asked for it. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:18, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Ah, the 'ol "But it came from Legal! We have to do it now!". There was extreme opposition to this on Meta. SQL^{Query me!} 23:19, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

How is this going to affect things like looking at all contribs in a range? Natureium (talk) 23:23, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Natureium, I would assume negatively. The only tool I've seen is the new Special:Investigate tool, and it seems to have some severe issues. They really need to spend a LOT more time and energy on tools before they force this thru. That, or maybe force registration if it's that important. SQL^{Query me!} 23:26, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

But a regular editor can't add /64 to the end of an IP and see whether there's more vandalism across the range? Natureium (talk) 23:29, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Could use something like Crypto-PAn I guess. That would preserve ranges. I don't think that's the plan, though. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:35, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Hemiauchenia, then we need to implement a permanent mainspace ban on IPs. Accounts are free. Guy (help! - typo?) 23:46, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

JzG, Pretty much. Like ptwiki does. SQL^{Query me!} 23:48, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

A quick experiment at pt:A suggests that they have an edit filter set to prevent edits to articles by IPs (anyone not logged in). That's from a Google translate of the page notice while in incognito mode (not logged in). While welcoming everyone is great, keeping good editors is essential and no sane person can deal with LTAs on shifting IPs unless articles are strongly protected or wide IP ranges blocked. Johnuniq (talk) 00:08, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

I need to preface this by saying that I don't know if this is still true, but at the time that discussions on the proposal were taking place last year, I distinctly remember that the foundation intended to obscure IP's from CU's, which effectively makes the role completely useless for investigating LTA's with technical evidence. Assuming that my initial impressions of it are still true, I think that this is going to turn into a hilarious clown fiesta very soon, like anything else that the WMF thinks is a good idea. Frankly, I think that Wikimedia projects should let the WMF handle anti-vandalism and LTA issues moving forward without any volunteer assistance whatsoever and see how well that works out. They bought the ticket, so now they get to take the ride. OhKayeSierra (talk) 03:10, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

OhKayeSierra, obscuring from CUs would be the wet dream of every spammer and LTA. Guy (help! - typo?) 09:42, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

• To restate what I've said on meta. I think that this could work. 5-10 years from now, with many carefully developed, mature tools. I think that forcing this thru today, with one half-assed, rushed to production tool is a mistake. SQL^{Query me!} 03:16, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
• There are a lot of details missing (both due to the early stage of development and WP:BEANS), but I don't think this is the end of the world. In a "soft" IP-masking, where admins (and editors with an EFH-like permission) can see IPs, almost nothing will change at a substantial benefit to IP editor privacy. In a "hard" IP-masking, there will be significantly more pages semi-protected, additional need for CheckUser resources, and the potential for blocking sensitive IP addresses. However, as long as IPv6 /64s are still evident, I don't think it will make a major difference to abuse-fighting. Most of the vandals who know how to change their IP address know to register accounts for their vandalism anyhow. power~enwiki (π, ν) 03:47, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
  • That's wrong. Wikipedia works at all because users are empowered to do stuff. Most days sees someone asking at ANI for a range block because an editor with no special privilege has seen a problem and taken an effort to work out what is needed to resolve it. If an editor sees three masked IPs mucking around in an article, they would have to ask someone with appropriate privilege (if that will be possible) to investigate. That person, presumably, could not see the IPs in any easy way (like viewing article history where all the IPs could be seen and perhaps copied into a range calculator). Instead, the privileged person would need to click buttons and do who knows what. Far easier to semi-protect the affected articles for six months or whatever it takes. Johnuniq (talk) 04:37, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

This is pretty weird. There was one of those pop-up questionnaires a few weeks ago asking people to say whether they edited regularly from IP addresses. People who said yes were asked to participate in a 1-hour phone interview with WMF staff. I did one of those interviews and discussed the topic at length. Some privacy-related questions came up but that of revealing IP addresses being an issue was barely touched on, though I mentioned that showing one's IP made a bigger disclosure than editing under a made-up username. I still need to follow up by email with the person I spoke with, so I'll mention this thread in my followup. Hmm. 2602:24A:DE47:BB20:50DE:F402:42A6:A17D (talk) 06:46, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm somewhat doubtful the legal department cared about that questionnaire or the follow up. They probably haven't even heard of it. It's possible the questionnaire was intended to be used by the team working on the Privacy Enhancement and Abuse Mitigation project until legal intervened. (If legal did rely on that questionnaire, probably their main question would have been how well editors understood the privacy implication of IP editing so once it became clear you did, that would be what they wanted to know.) Nil Einne (talk) 07:43, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

For whatever it's worth, in response to my request for more info Johan (WMF) clarified at the Meta page, at least a little bit, what their plans are. He hasid that the do have in mind some sort of a system which will assign (presumably automatically) internal individualized WP aliases to IP editors. As I understood, those aliases will be displayed in page histories and in talk pages, in leiu of signatures of those IPs, and one should be able to view the contrib history for a specific IP alias. But as far as range blocks, that will certainly become much more difficult, at least for anyone who is not an admin. Similarly, if there is persistent sockpuppetry, block evasion, or similar form of disruption that isn't straightforward vandalism (e.g. IPs participating in an AfD and casting similar !votes), it'd be much harder for non-admins to tell if these edits are likely made by the same editor once the IP address is masked. Nsk92 (talk) 14:00, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

*sigh* Rushing this is a *bad* idea. We've seen what happened to Special:Investigate, and they worked months on that one. We are all familiar with first releases coming from WMF, and rushing one of them is definitely not going to have a good outcome. While we seem to have less and less tools to help us fight vandalism - see what happened to IPCheck, a WMF staffer told its developer not to develop it any further, and now it sits unmaintained - they are heading towards something that would need more of it, and not supplying us with those. At this point, even if I disagree with the reasons why ptwiki did it (it is my home wiki), making registration mandatory is the way to go.
"Oh but it's a hassle and we don't want to drive people away from the projects by doing it" You don't even need an e-mail to register an account here.
"Oh, I know! Let's use cookies to keep the masking" Really? Really? REALLY?! LTAs are a problem since forever, and IP hopping is not a problem for them. Clearing cookies takes less than a minute, which means that now you're simply wanting to give them freedom to do their thing without even letting us properly fight them.
Anyway, I do hope this is better thought out by the WMF before rushing it. —Thanks for the fish! ^{talk•contribs} 00:46, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Unfortunately, we're just going to find out the hard way. The WMF hasn't unveiled any concrete plans yet, so it's best we save our outrage capital for when this does happen. -FASTILY 04:16, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

• Or we can require they get an account in order to edit and the problem is solved. In no way does that interfere with our long standing tradition of being the encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Getting an account is fast, free and easy. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 16:48, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

  Enforcing registration for mainspace, while allowing masked IP editors to contribute to talk pages would allow people to participate without registering, while protecting article content. Extensive talkpage vandalism seems unlikely.Dialectric (talk) 19:38, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

  This solution is simply not worth the trouble. When the IP editors come here at all, it is overwhelmingly with the goal of editing articles, not talk pages. I never really understood why we don't enforce mandatory registration in order to edit on WP, and it seems to me now that the time has finally come to do that. Nsk92 (talk) 20:26, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

  and the problem is solved along with many other problems. It's past time to retire this obsolete ideology. ―Mandruss ☎ 04:22, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

"I never really understood why we don't enforce mandatory registration in order to edit on WP, and it seems to me now that the time has finally come to do that." I have long been against the idea that you should need to register an account for changing "and and" to "and" in an article. However, if a clear change in circumstances means this no longer possible, perhaps we should follow pt-wiki's lead and start the mandatory registration RfC. Can I get a show of hands to see who's interested? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 08:48, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

If the masking makes identifying ranges impossible for any user, I'm going to support mandatory registration. Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 12:27, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

This is because if only admins can block / find ranges to block, then it adds a further burden to admins to find which range block is appropriate. If its not admins and is instead CUs, then there is even more of a burden. Normal users often use what range an IP address is in as evidence for SPI. I certainly don't want more things to do at SPI with the number of open cases that there usually is. Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 12:36, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Add in that there are some disruptive editors that don't register accounts, but just use IP's. Sometimes, the only way to see what articles they've edited is with range searches. Take that away, and it's nigh impossible to find when they've hit a new article. This is going to be a dream for disruptive editors, fringe conspiracy editors. For a couple of regular vandals I watch for, this will make it almost impossible for a non-admin to monitor. Good luck, admins - your workload is going up. Ravensfire (talk) 03:57, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

I asked in the Meta thread for more info about what kind of a system for assigning individualized aliases to masked IP editors they have in mind. The response from Johan (WMF) indicates that they have not yet considered this question substantively. Personally, I think it extremely unlikely that they will be able to come up with an alias system which will allow for any reasonable substitute for range-blocking and identifying ranges. It's just too difficult to devise and implement such a system in technical terms (and to make it safe from de-scrambling). It is much more likely, IMO, that the IP aliases will be either assigned randomly or numerically/consecuitively, in the order IPs make their first edits on a given wiki or across all wikis. Neither option would make identifying ranges possible. Nsk92 (talk) 12:36, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

I have previously supported IP-editing, but I definitely support a ban against masked-edits. Not only do I support an RFC, I created the page Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF) because this is one of several current Foundation disasters I was considering personally opening RFCs on. However I'd be delighted if someone else steps up to run this RFC - I am feeling extremely mentally-drained by the prospect of opening four or five RFCs that are all of comparable or greater weight as this one. For what it's worth, I suggest this proposal include a clause authorizing an immediate edit-filter against masked-edits if they are deployed without consensus. Alsee (talk) 09:09, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Just thinking out loud, how does masking IP addresses work with the GNU Free Documentation Licence? The edit window says "you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL. You agree that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative Commons license." Let's suppose in five years' time, Richard Stallman decides to sue a couple of rip-off publishers making print copies of Wikipedia articles for lack of proper attribution, violating the GFDL. "Aha", says rms, "there is no attribution - the author's identity has been censored! GNU are STRONGLY OPPOSED to CENSORSHIP!". What happens then? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:00, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

I guess the hyperlink or URL to the masked IP address would be enough? From what I understand the masked IP address would still have a contributions page and a talk page. Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 13:37, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

On a side note, one key motivation for moving to dual licensing with CC BY-SA is because the GFDL proscribes very specific procedures for creating modifications, including creating a history section where authorship is listed, which were designed with printed books in mind. So providing a pointer to find a list of authors elsewhere isn't actually sufficient to meet the GFDL, for any type of author. (On the other hand, the GFDL wasn't designed to cover documents with many, many authors; it requires "at least five of the principal authors of the Document" to be listed on the title page (and accordingly in the history), so how to apply this to a crowd-sourced document is unclear.) isaacl (talk) 23:00, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't see any difference between pseudonymous attribution to an IP address versus some other identifier that is unique to the IP address. (On a side note, the license creator has no standing to sue for copyright violations: only the copyright holder or assignee has standing. So the anonymous editor would have to sue for failing to receive attribution.) isaacl (talk) 22:37, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Has the Foundation confused Covid-precautions with "how to run a website"? DuncanHill (talk) 13:46, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

• Comment- More idiocy from WMF. Now can we PLEASE require registration to edit? The "any bozo with a computer and an internet connection can edit" idea was already long in the tooth in 2002. Carrite (talk) 01:20, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Early details / ideas

• WMF rolled out an idea/proposed details today (which can be found at meta:Talk:IP_Editing:_Privacy_Enhancement_and_Abuse_Mitigation#Who_can_access_the_IP_of_an_unregistered_editor?) SQL^{Query me!} 03:50, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

An idea could be to create three tiers.

1. The vast majority of people who access our wikis would see the IPs fully masked.
2. All admins could see them partially masked (the first three parts of an IP being visible). This could be helpful to see patterns even if they don’t have the new user right. Partially masking them reduces the privacy risk for the unregistered user.
3. The new user right – in addition to checkusers and stewards – would have access to the entire IP.
   — User:Johan (WMF)

If "masked" means "replaced with a unique identifier", this seems borderline reasonable (even 4chan figured out how to do this). If "masked" simply means that every IP address would be made invisible and indistinguishable, I don't see how RC patrol would be remotely possible for non-admins. It would be like trying to keep water out of a boat where only the captain is allowed to plug the holes (although -- don't worry -- everyone is free to suck up the water with a straw and spit it overboard). I would support an RfC to put extreme restrictions on IP mainspace editing if this were the case (disallowing it entirely seems a little cruel, but if it can't be helped, it can't be helped). jp×g 00:58, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

OpenStreetMap

Have a look on these uploads. There are uploaded under cc-by-sa-4.0. Is it ok to upload OpenStreetMap cc-by-sa-4.0? If so, it is good to export to commons. Is it good to have location map module instead of having images? --AntanO 02:22, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes, freely-licensed images are generally fine, even CC SA 4.0. That said, <mapframe> is available for precisely the same in most cases, and built into many infoboxes in some way, so perhaps Nsenaratna should use those instead. --Izno (talk) 02:56, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Based on c:Template:OpenStreetMap, they should probably be CC BY-SA 2.0. — JJMC89 (T·C) 02:58, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

The uploads should be fixed to use the above template. It specifies CC BY-SA for the Wikipedia editor's 'work', and the ODbL license for that of the OSM contributors. ɱ (talk) 03:28, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Request access to create article

Hello, Please read here, I am not fluent in English but I always tried my best to be effective And I have good activities For example, please check the Kashmar article. Please give me this access because I deserve it, I'm very interested in creating a template And note that I used to only create templates And I had no problem and lost access! Thank you for helping me M.k.m2003 (talk) 15:25, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

For clarity, this appears to be an appeal of this ban. M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 23:19, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

@M Imtiaz: Yes, thank you M.k.m2003 (talk) 07:00, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

You have successfully followed your unblock conditions for a number of months. That's good. But in order to have your topic ban lifted, you need to convince us things would go differently if your topic ban was lifted. Please explain in your own words why the topic ban was placed back in August, 2019 and what you would do differently this time. --Yamla (talk) 11:37, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

@Yamla: Hello dear brother, look, I think we should move on from the past, I was blocked due to not being fluent in English and creating a wide range of weak articles, and so on .... But now the situation is different, I can do better and I do not intend to create an article, but I can do well in creating an article as well, Please see the Kashmar article. From zero to one hundred, I worked on it and you see, I worked well and I can still be as good as I am, but I am very interested in creating templates on Wikipedia, which you took my permission from me. And I can do nothing but edit, forgive me, I did not answer completely and accurately because of my lack of mastery of English time, Please see my recent edits, You will see that I am different than before[1][2][3] M.k.m2003 (talk) 12:50, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Lolamartinez123

ST47, for erasing true facts on this article. IPBE in these circumstances can be found at China Virus/Chinese Virus

What 45th US president Donald Trump calls coronavirus to promote his own racist agenda against Asian-Americans. Because of Trump hate crime has now increased towards Asian-Americans because of how Trump supporters now think they are all carriers of a contagious virus.
Chink list of ethnic racial slurs. Link to the user’s ignorant behavior

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/985088616#movedpara_1_0_rhs

 Done Lolamartinez123 (talk) 21:48, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you Lolamartinez123. ST47 (talk) 01:25, 24 October 2020 (UTC).

The above signature (purporting to be from ST47) appears to be invalid.

• Lolamartinez123 (talk · contribs)
• List of ethnic slurs (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Johnuniq (talk) 09:16, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

By way of explanation, the above comments were added in these edits:

• 08:22, 24 October 2020 by Lolamartinez123
• 08:25, 24 October 2020 by Lolamartinez123

The "Done" and "Thank you" might have been copied from the previous section. I then added the heading and text from "The above signature...". Johnuniq (talk) 09:32, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

I blocked for 31h (for edit-warring at this very page and for BLP violations), but will not object if another administrator would extend a block for a longer duration.--Ymblanter (talk) 15:41, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

In view of this, I reblocked for a week with the talk page access revoked. I currently do not see how we benefit from continued ability of this user to edit Wikipedia and suggest indefinite block or site ban.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:09, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

I dug a bit deeper, and after seeing a disturbing pattern in their edits, changed the block to indef. My best judgement is that you wouldn't mind. This person doesn't need to be here. They are on a mission of god or something, but that kind of attitude isn't going to work in a collaborative environment. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 17:43, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Having had previous run ins with Lolamartinez123 and having come just within a hair of blocking them at the time, I endorse the decision to indef. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 19:02, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

FWIW, endorse indef I don't recall what prompted me to write THIS and THIS, but it looks to me like user has been cruisin' for a bruisin'. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 12:13, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

• Good block. Massive NPOV failure in content edits, which is easily into "break glass" territory. Let's see what the user has to say about this as part of their block appeal. Guy (help! - typo?) 13:18, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Talk:Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory

There's an RfC at Talk:Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory on whether to remove the word "false" but the lead has changed significantly and at least some of the "remove" votes refer to a part of the onpening para that we no longer call false. I think this needs careful closure.

The OP was basically challenging reversion of this edit based on this version of the article, but it has since changed to this. Guy (help! - typo?) 14:27, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Wide IP range blocks?

In Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Nisheshbhattarai, a request as been made for a /17 range block, which seems excessive. Is there any specific guidance on the use of wide IP range blocks? WP:RANGE gives some vague guidance, but mostly leaves it up to the individual admin to be careful. -- RoySmith (talk) 19:57, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Collateral damage is more important than how wide the IP range is. Some ISPs, especially in non-anglophone countries, have only one or two people on huge IP ranges. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 22:05, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Being stalked by User:Koncorde

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I've noticed it a while ago, whenever I create an article or edit it a lot... Koncorde appears there, reverting and edit warring, and I'm getting sick of it.

I think it's a result of a disagreement we had months ago... but it's not normal. No, it can't be a coincidence that he's on every edit I make.

Innovations in the piano, Concrete piano, List of Jewish Nobel laureates, Mifal HaPayis, Cadenza, Cadenza Piano, Sunderland A.F.C. supporters are just a few examples of articles he had never touched before I appeared there, and then suddenly automatically appearing and harassing me.

This is not a coincidence. Maxim.il89 (talk) 23:14, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

You are right, it's not a coincidence. You make poor edits that attract attention. I see the attention from any number of venues that I go to. I look at what else you are up to. I see other issues. I respond to them. You revert any feedback or changes because, y'know, you don't understand how BRD works and then descend into a madness of accusing anyone that disagrees with you of edit warring, bullying etc. Anyone can review your edit history and see dozens of instances of you reverting editors that don't believe your additions are right and proper and then descending into the whirlpool of attempting to overpower people with an aggressive battleground mentality. Koncorde (talk) 23:45, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Glucken123 for RAA for deleting my topic on Lincoln Project Page

• The Lincoln Project (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) Johnuniq (talk) 09:48, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

I keep having my topic deleted on Lincoln Project wiki page by user: Glucken123, he has deleted my topic twice now and is acting in bad faith and attempting to whitewash the Wikipedia page for the Lincoln Project. I did not add any edits to the page but included in the talk page that there are credible sources which state that Lincoln Project inadvertently spread Iranian disinformation about proud boys emailing potential Democrat voters. This user repeatedly deletes my topics without giving any rationale and I would like to request administrator action Pformenti (talk) 09:40, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

I've restored your talk page section; I don't know if it's worth including in the article, but blindly removing content from a talk page is a little excessive; it's a reasonable question (i.e. not the type of ridiculous rant that would merit blanking). Primefac (talk) 09:57, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Iman Farzin

I am not sure how much went on at the Farsi wikipedia, but there appears to be some kind of battle ground going on with the Iman Farzin article and the follow-up AfD, with an IP turning up to it's single keep post! I feel maybe it needs a little more monitoring. Govvy (talk) 11:22, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Seems to be getting a lot worse, :/ Govvy (talk) 16:39, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

It looks to me like a typical AfD discussion, with feelings running strong. It's certainly not out-of-control. But I'll add it to my Watchlist. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:47, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

ATK Mohun Bagan FC

Is there an admin around who can take a look at ATK Mohun Bagan FC? Apparently the article was redirected to Mohun Bagan A.C. per some prior merge discussion. Looking at the page history this result appears to be contentious with some back and forth reverting going on for quite some time. This seems to have been previously discussed at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive325#Closure of the merger proposal with no resolution at there appears to be an ongoing discussion about this at Talk:Mohun Bagan A.C.. The page has been protected multiple times over the years due to disruption and is currently indefinitely protected to stop IPs from editing it; a SPA, however, recently showed up, got autoconfirmed, and immediately started to try and recreate the article. I've got know preference either way, but it seems it would be best to let things be resolved throught discussion and see if there's a consensus to restore the article and undo the redirect. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:08, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

I just temporarily blocked one of the edit-warring SPAs. Beyond that, I know very little about the topic, so I'm reluctant to fully protect until someone more familiar with Indian football can help us determine what the stable/closest-to-consensus version is. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 02:29, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

I also raised protection to ECP since the existing semi-protection didn't stop this. With that, I think the content dispute can be handled by normal editing and discussion, so I don't think full protection is needed yet. If edit-warring continues despite the ECP, full protection should probably be the next step. — Wug·a·po·des​ 03:18, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

While looking at the RFC I see no consensus to merge the article. The consensus was based on SPA’s !votes. It has been discussed on the admins' noticeboard and nobody opposed the overturn of the merger then. Further discussion on the same regard also shows the consensus is to overturn the merger.–– Akhiljaxxn (talk) 03:45, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Editor with long-term POV push

I'm here at the advice of Ymblanter, concerning the edits by Kovanja. Kovanja has been making dubious and ideologically driven edits to topics regarding Rus'/Ukrainian/Russian history for years, generally to deny the existence of Ukraine or Belarus before the twentieth century.

• Most recently he's added material on the "foundation of Russian statehood" to Rurikid dynasty and edit warred about it [4], [5]. The edits were notably supported by two tourism websites and other sources that did not support his edits. In talk he explicitly says Ukraine and Belarus were founded only as Soviet Republic with no historical context [6]. A similar edit was made at Kievan Rus', including mis-transliterating Ῥωσία (Rosia) as Rossija, the transliteration of the Russian name for Russia (Россия) [7].
• In September he also edit warred over the origin of borscht, saying Ukraine didn't exist, only little Russians: [8], [9], [10], [11]. This is actually something he's been at for years, see [12], [13], [14], [15].
• If you follow his edits back in time it just goes on and on like this, such as adding completing irrelevant information about Russia and the Rurikids were the same to Ruthenians [16]. He's also tried to add questionable information to Holodomor, arguing it wasn't a genocide [17], [18], [19], saying genocide is a mere presumption and fabrication.
• He's also tried to claim that Russians invented shashlik [20].

It strikes me that this user is probably wp:NOTHERE. I'd appreciate an admin looking into it.--Ermenrich (talk) 21:30, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

He's still at it at Rurik dynasty [21]. Also personal attacks [22].--Ermenrich (talk) 23:45, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Probably worth noting he's been repeatedly blocked from Czech Wikipedia for inserting misleading information, including edit warring on their article on Stalin on the Holomor [23], for which he is currently partially blocked there.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:32, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

He's still making similar statements, see his latest salvo [24] No one efer refered to some Belarusians as a minority it was Soviet invention.. Note also his lack of grasp of our sourcing policies: You are keep denysing Rurikid history recorded by Rurikid themselves (this to support his contention that Rus' and Russia are identical). I do not think this is going to get better.--Ermenrich (talk) 22:22, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Most recent edits at Kievan Rus' include, once again, sourcing something to the title of a course found on a Finnish website, once again pointlessly adding the Greek name "Ῥωσία(Rosía)", presumably because it is the origin of the modern name of Russia, and adding denigration of Ukraine's claim to ancestry from Kievan Rus' in Wikipedia's voice, namely On the other hand Ukraine claims it's sole legacy of the Kievan Rus through the late 19h century nationalist publication of Mykhailo Hrushevski History of Ukraine-Rus' and it's national revival period, with its perception of principality of Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia which was vassal of the Golden Horde during all it's existence and after extinction of Rurikid Romanovichi bloodline it was fully asborbed by Poland in 13th century. [25] Compare that to what he does for the Russian claim (sourced to a Finnish university's course title): Both Ukraine and Russia consider the Kievan Rus' their ancestor state. Russia claims it's Rus descendancy directly since 13th century, when Novgorodian Rurikid branch tried unite Rus' principalties under principality of Moscow and Vladimir. Later Novgorodian Rurikid branch ruling Grand Duchy of Moscow led Rus' principalties in rebelion against the Golden Horde and won independence under Ivan III of house Rurik who titled himself as Prince of all Rus'. Rurik dynasty later ruled Tsardom of Rus as Tsars of all Rus' until 16th century..--Ermenrich (talk) 16:31, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

He appears to be editing while logged out in order to continue his edit war, see [26] and [27]. The IP geolocates to the Czech Republic, which is also, based on his use of Czech Wikipedia, Kovanja is based. This IP also shows further edit warring over the issue of "Russian statehood" in the 800s. See, [28], [29], [30]. Also see this problematic, clearly anti-Ukrainian and unsourced edit [31] After pro-European revolution Maidan in 2014 Ukraine become poorest country in Europe with the lowest GDP per capita in Europe.--Ermenrich (talk) 16:40, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

The user indeed does not look competent in editing at least Eastern European topics.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:47, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

I would support an indefinite block, after review. A TBAN restricted to those topics is just going to end in one anyway. --Izno (talk) 15:01, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

• Blocked indefinitely per the discussion and my own review. Clearly agenda driven and tendentious, and since the editor doesn't edit outside the topic area, a DS/GS topic ban is not very useful compared to a block. — Wug·a·po·des​ 19:14, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

References

2020 Nagorno-Karabakh conflict

Dear administrators. Can a couple of uninvolved administrators without conflict of interest with the subject help with 2020_Nagorno-Karabakh_conflict article please? Nagorno Karabakh is currently a zone of ongoing violent ethno-teritorrial conflict since September 27, 2020 and there is heavy edit warring going on in the Wikipedia article that is meant to be a neutral summary rather than a battlefield. Being aware of good faith principle, I do have reasonable doubts about an involved administrator @Rosguill: who appears to be providing unilateral support to one side, perhaps due to national or political conflict of interest. I can see POV/agenda-pushing from two users @Solavirum: and @CuriousGolden: on the same side - edits favoring the other side are labeled as "redundant", "insignificant", "unimportant", "fake" and reverted / erased. WP rules are cited and used unilaterally to silence users on the other side. Many thanks, yours sincerely, Armatura (talk) 22:04, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

WP:ASSUMEGOODFAITH – accusing an admin for providing unilateral support to one side, due to national or political conflict of interest and calling others for agenda-pushing. This request is in itself a full WP:BOOMERANG. Anyways, I'm happy that you appealed here. Your behavior has been getting annoying at best, and your edits were WP:TENDENTIOUS to say the least. edits favoring the other side are labeled as "redundant", "insignificant", "unimportant", "fake" and reverted / erased – first of all, why are there edits favoring a party here? Secondly, you always have to liberty to appeal to the talk page and try to achieve WP:CONSENSUS, which you've been violating since you started editing on the page. WP rules are cited and used unilaterally to silence users on the other side – do I have to comment on this, like even? Clearly a nonargument and ridiculous canvassing. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 13:47, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

You've reported me and another editor and an administrator because we agreed on things that you didn't? This is a clear violation of WP:IJUSTDONTLIKEIT. Not to mention the fact that you've been particularly mean to users on the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh conflict talk page, violating the WP:ASSUMEGOODFAITH, WP:CONSENSUS and WP:CIVILITY several times. An example can be seen here where you're addressing an IP user who did not agree with your request of addition to the article with "Says the unsigned user who does not realise that Wikipedia records IP (which takes a second to geolocate)", possibly threatening to dox them. Here's another example of the user just straight up accusing me with breaking several policies while breaking literally all the mentioned policies in their own single comment, by going on to call the points I've raised about an addition they've requested to add a "just emotions" and accusing me of WP:IJDLI because I didn't agree with their addition. The user is also handing out warns to users without any reasoning. Most recently, he gave me a warning for edit warring out of a sudden after this report. I asked for the reason. Answer? "count the number of your reverts in 2020 Nagorno Karabakh Conflict article within last two days, that should be enough to see the answer to your question". Handing out warns because I reverted a lot? The user couldn't even name at least one revert which broke the rules when asked. These are only some of the many examples of the same user breaking Wikipedia's rules in just one article's talk page. Good day. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 14:17, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Denying multiple reverts violating WP rules does not make them go away, unfortunately, CuriousGolden, as already demonstrated by other users: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:CuriousGolden_reported_by_User:%D4%B3%D5%A1%D6%80%D5%AB%D5%AF_%D4%B1%D5%BE%D5%A1%D5%A3%D5%B5%D5%A1%D5%B6_(Result:_) Regards, Armatura (talk) 17:37, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Yup, I hadn't read WP:3RR in detail and therefore agreed to stay away from the article for 2 weeks on my own will. Thanks for pointing it out. Now, how about addressing all the other points raised by all 3 editors here which you accused? — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 17:46, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

@CuriousGolden: It is very interesting to read that you, as you say, "hadn't read WP:3RR in detail" despite being alerted about edit warring to the WP:ARBAA2 sanctions back in April... )). As for your other questions, I already highlighted my concerns, and you have highlighted yours, now let's give the scene to uninvolved editors to comment. Regards, Armatura (talk) 19:12, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Yep, I hadn't understood it properly when reading and have accepted to stay away from an article I had been warned about for 2 weeks on my own will, thank you for pointing out this same irrelevant thing the second time. — CuriousGolden (talk·contrib) 19:22, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

I have been doing my best to uphold Wikipedia's policies and norms, and to ensure that others do the same. The irony here is that by my count, my interventions have supported the Armenian perspective more than the Azerbaijani perspective that I am accused of favoring. Rest assured I have no particular sympathy for either side of the conflict, although at this rate I'm starting to wonder when I get to add myself to the belligerents section of the infobox. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 15:52, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Collapsed to reduce space taken up

2020 Nagorno-Karabakh conflict Part of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict Date 27 September 2020 (2020-09-27) – present (4 years, 1 month, 1 week and 5 days) Location Nagorno-Karabakh, Azerbaijan, Armenia–Azerbaijan border Status Ongoing Territorial changes Azerbaijan states they have control of 4 cities, 4 settlements, 165 villages and the disputed area's border with Iran Belligerents Azerbaijan Syrian mercenaries Supported by: Turkey Artsakh Armenia Armenian diaspora volunteers Rosguill Supported by: Wikipedia policy Strength Unknown regular military 2,050 Syrian fighters Equipment: Unknown number of tanks and armored vehicles Unknown number of Bayraktar TB2 Unknown number of IAI Harop Unknown number of Orbiter 1K TRG-300 guided MLRS BM-30 Smerch MLRS Various artillery Unknown regular military Equipment: Unknown number of tanks and armored vehicles including T-72 tanks Scud-B and OTR-21 Tochka tactical ballistic missiles Various MLRS Various types of anti-tank guided missiles Various anti-aircraft missiles Various artillery 1 Equipment: Administrator tools

What does WikiBlame do?

My understanding is that it, and its alternative, Blame, are designed to identify who added given content to an article. I don’t see that they accomplish that very well, if at all. Am I missing something here? soibangla (talk) 18:15, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Everyone asks what does WikiBlame do but no-one asks how does WikiBlame do. 😔 TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 18:21, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

I haven't tried WikiBlame, but the Who Wrote That? browser extension is wonderful for identifying who wrote the content, when, and what else they wrote. Schazjmd (talk) 19:04, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Hey, cool, thank you. soibangla (talk) 19:07, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

I have tried it (I am on Chrome) - it appears to be quicker to use than WikiBlame. Slick!— Diannaa (talk) 20:07, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Trying this out and it looks awesome! Shame it only works on articles (for now). —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 20:13, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Tenryuu, I agree, I'm looking forward to it becoming more full-featured (like working in infobox and tables). It would be fantastic if it worked on any wp page. Schazjmd (talk) 20:41, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Schazjmd, Nice! S Philbrick(Talk) 20:12, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Userboxes

What is the current state of things as regards pro- and anti-Israel user boxes (search for Israel here)? Do they really have anything to do with editing Wikipedia? I guess I can see it being useful for people to essentially declare a potential COI or POV when others are evaluating their edits, but this one, for example, strikes me as over-the-top. (I'm decidedly anti-drama; this has been in my stack a few days before deciding to mention it.) —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 00:23, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

• This question is probably best for a deletion discussion or village pump RFC. I believe there was a group of editors drafting an RfC on how to handle political userboxen recently, but I haven't been following the latest userbox war. Perhaps one of them will chime in here with more information. To answer the broad question, they could be useful for finding editors interested in improving content relating to the Levant, but like the example you point out, they may stray from that purpose. In sum, there's no specific guidance beyond WP:UBCR and WP:UPNOT at the moment, so if you think something violates those policies, nominate it at WP:MFD. — Wug·a·po·des​ 02:12, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

• Most userboxes have nothing 'to do with editing Wikipedia', but they're a popular ornament nonetheless. The particular UBX here should be taken to MfD. However, what may concern this board is that the user currently has Israel: Is a terrorist country that keeps killing my country for no reason. Hopefully they all get kicked out plastered on the bottom of their userpage under 'least favorites'. AmandaNP you rev-delled a bunch of material from the userpage in the past few hours, is it relevant here or just related to privacy? (Redacted). Mr rnddude (talk) 20:47, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

• I have no additional comment to make nor any relevant input for this thread. -- Amanda (aka DQ) 20:52, 29 October 2020 (UTC)