Talk:Philippine drug war

New Section

Thank you for all information on what is go on in the Philippines,national papers around the world have giving little attention to what'is really going on in the Philippines,I think the drugs war is a excuse for the president to get rid of all opponents to his despicable,despotic regime,the true death figures will never be found,government says 13500 drugs deaths,when you talk to the right people in the towns and villages the figures add up to 32000 thousand,yet you can still buy any drug cheaper than before Duterte started his massacres of population of the drug takers,making no distinction between the people who needed them for health to stay ALIVE, or the pushers and dealers WHO still deserved a fair trial,not to shot down like a rabid dog,it must be nice to have a friend like Trump,at least conngress can see through the Philippines mad man.

thank you conngress alan summer. - 86.31.96.229 10:35, 16 December 2017 — Preceding unsigned comment added by F-Lambda (talk • contribs)

Reorganization

I would like to get feedback on how we could make the article more organized. In the current state the article is all over the place understandably because this is a big issue under Duterte's Presidency. I believe it might benefit the article if this provides an overview of the campaign against drugs.

I suggest the article to be sectioned like this:

• History – Landmark events which had concrete effects on the campaign like its brief halt, when it started and UN actions. Keep rhetorics to the minimal despite gaining widespread backlash if it didnt affect the drug war that much
• Operations – Discuss how the police conducts operation from the state's point of view like how they often alleged that the drug suspect fought back. Also while the killings are the most prominent part don't forget other non-fatal operations like how the customs, PDEA operates. Oplan Double Barrel standard operation procedures goes here.

Also include observations and allegations of third parties on how government agents operate.

• Major Incidents – Here goes major events. We should delineate what constitutes as major events. Notable operations and casualties. Summary only since they would meet Wikipedia's general notability guidelines anyway. Those which caused Duterte himself to react in a concrete way.
• Reactions – Actions against the war on drugs in general. As much as possible limit to concrete reactions including protest actions. Include here the UNHRC resolutions too. Also include foreign support like China's involvement.
• In popular culture – As is.

Hariboneagle927 (talk) 05:19, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

I started introducing content for the meantime without overhauling the current layout that much for now.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 03:46, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

The lead is awful. Not only is too long, but it badly needs a re-write for tone and overall flow. WP Ludicer (talk) 21:41, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Dubious-Discuss

Opening up this section to discuss the tag proposed by OjuzKiopo on the lead of the article. Godzilladude123 (talk) 00:58, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Let's discuss. Take a chair and listen.

It's dubious....yessir. The president Ronaldo Duderte which is shown at left at the very start of the article...said it...he admitted half-wordly even before being elected.

Let me quote the article itself.

"In a campaign speech on April 27 to business leaders, he said his presidency would be "a bloody one", but that he would issue "a thousand pardons a day" to police and soldiers accused of human rights abuses, and would also issue a presidential pardon to himself for mass murder at the end of his six-year term."

He is the head of state (which is a figurehead for that matter in many places). His speeches are more or less public and diffused to the whole country etc...so he is a figurehead but also a spokeman.

About drugs he said about drugs "Do not do it in my country because I will really kill you. That is a commitment."

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Rodrigo_Duterte%27s_Fifth_State_of_the_Nation_Address Here is speech

He also said: "Hitler massacred three million Jews... there's three million drug addicts. I'd be happy to slaughter them,"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37515642

He also admitted involvement in Davao Death squads.

Then to quote Benigno Aquino III "Killing a person is against the law. The President has been firm in the belief that no one is above the law. We must not resort to extralegal methods."

www.manilatimes.net/palace-cbcp-rights-activists-gang-up-on-davao-mayor/73307/

Is it that much neglected by authorities? Maybe Debold Sinas may've denied extra-judicial killings, maybe he said he would prosecute them, but answers to those claims vary. --OjuzKiopo (talk) 19:16, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

OjuzKiopo, I believe you have mistaken the purpose of the Dubious-Discuss tag. No one is saying that the police are innocent. The tag should only be used to discuss the accuracy of citations and references, not whether or not what the PNP said is true or false. The PNP did deny the allegations of the EJK, that's something that they said hence why it is in the article. If you want to challenge what the police said, you can insert statements and references that you have found. But don't use the Dubious-Discuss tag. Godzilladude123 (talk) 17:54, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

No. The Phillipines' authorities do not deny it. They do not. The more they do is passively not refering to those. I have not found them...it's just contradicting the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OjuzKiopo (talk • contribs) 18:37, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Actually, there are statements from the PNP and authorities denying EJKs. As seen here:

• https://www.philstar.com/nation/2020/09/08/2040748/pnp-chief-no-ejk-under-duterte
• https://cnnphilippines.com/news/2017/10/06/extrajudicial-killings-Duterte-govt.html
• https://www.jstor.org/stable/26905842

If you want, we can replace the current references with these newer ones. There is no need for the tag. Godzilladude123 (talk) 05:26, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Ongoing?

Should keep an eye on sources if the "drug war" officially ends. So far most sources are suggest Marcos would be "continuing" it. On the other hand it seems that there is a policy shift to a campaign that is not different to illegal drug policy of Duterte's predecessors. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 09:31, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Also how should we add information regarding President Marcos' pronounce policy shift? In an aftermath session? I am not sure on how to approach this to be honest. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 09:32, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 14 August 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Unfortunately, this discussion has stalled despite 3 relists, multiple discussion advertisements elsewhere, and several proposed names. No consensus on any of the proposals has emerged. Indeed, several users have proposed creating other articles in lieu of renaming this one, which further complicates the issue. I would suggest this be revisited in a few months (say, around December/January?) to see if enough has changed to justify a rename. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 13:10, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

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Philippine drug war → ? – "Philippine drug war" is not the WP:COMMONNAME. Sources either describes this campaign as a "war on drugs" or a "drug war" (without the adjective "Philippine", and if they do add a modifier it is "Philippines' "drug war"). Its also occasionally called as "Duterte's Drug War".

Also there is uncertainty on how current President Bongbong Marcos would approach this campaign so its difficult to determine the end of the "Philippine drug war" since the country has always been launching campaigns against illegal drugs even before Duterte. Though admittedly minus the notoriety of Oplan Tokhang. Marcos is unlikely to explicitly state to end the drug war and announced a policy shift (PNA)

I suggest renaming this article to (but not limited to):

• Philippine war on drugs (2016–2022)
• War on drugs of Rodrigo Duterte (2016–2022) Hariboneagle927 (talk) 09:48, 14 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 12:39, 21 August 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 17:06, 28 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. CollectiveSolidarity (talk) 22:50, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Also I emphasize that there is no need for this article name to be consistent with the Bangladesh drug war and the Mexican drug war.09:51, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Tambayan Philippines has been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 12:39, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

I'd like to put forth the following suggestions:

• Philippine drug war (2016-2022)
• War on drugs in the Philippines (2016-2022)
• Duterte administration's war on drugs (2016-2022) — maybe the year range isn't needed in this case

Ganmatthew (talk • contribs) 13:06, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Has the drug war ended? Why are we assigning end dates? Howard the Duck (talk) 20:46, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

@Howard the Duck

The situation is ambigious. Officially the "war on drugs" is still being pursued by President Marcos' administration but with a shift to rehabilitation and arrests rather than continuing the "Tohkhang" policy. The requested move is to provide a clearer scope on this article - or to provide some sort of stability for the lack of better term.

While the country has this hardline stance against drugs for decades already even before Duterte, the drug war of Duterte in particular has gained international notoriety and significant domestic support.

We don't know yet how Marcos would actually implement his own campaign and the operation is overwhelmingly associated with Duterte.

Also updated the article up to this point in time including President Marcos' decisions on the country's campaign against illegal drugs which would be relevant irregardless of the result of this move request. Rename the relevant section accordingly depending on the result of this request. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 16:54, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

If it's ambiguous, we shouldn't be assigning start or end dates. The "Philippine drug war" is happening even at the time of Noli Me Tangere. Now, if this article is focusing on the drug war under Rodrigo Duterte, well, there's your descriptive title, sorta like martial law under Ferdinand Marcos. Ambivalent between "drug war" vs "war on drugs" but Duterte himself probably likes the latter term more. Howard the Duck (talk) 17:06, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Scratch that; forget about "descriptive titles," as the most popular term for the drug war during Duterte's term is Operation Tokhang. Even Rappler uses it in its articles. (I used Rappler here as an example, as they are more of an "internationalist" in approach, vs other local media. Notice they used "Haiyan" instead of "Yolanda", and that they use "drug war" in most article titles, but inevitably inserts "Tokhang" in prose anyway.) Howard the Duck (talk) 17:37, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

I think that the PNP/PDEA Operation Tokhang or Oplan Tokhang should be a separate article since it is indeed what gained notoriety. Besides, most of this article's contents revolve around that specific operation, while there are barely represented content on the Barangay Drug Clearing program and the PNP's Recovery and Wellness Program, which have been part of Duterte's war on drugs. Perhaps detailed content (such as deaths during raids incidents) pertaining to Oplan Tokhang should be moved on its own article, while this article should summarize Tokhang and include summaries on all past presidencies drug policies/programs. –Sanglahi86 (talk) 19:39, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Though again. As noted some time ago the "war on drugs" is not limited to Tokhang. So I'm not keen on renaming this article that. Tokhang is part of Oplan Double Barrel along with "Oplan High-Value Target". Double Barrel don't include the socioeconomic component of the war on drugs.

The Illegal drug trade in the Philippines article should be expanded for the more "general" war on drugs.

There is potential for a separate standalone article on Tokhang though. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 03:54, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

On the second point, it would be more apt to create an article on the Drug policy of the Philippines for the "general" war on drugs by various administrations. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 04:29, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Most people associate "Tokhang" with the drug operations of the Duterte administration, even such operations formally did not happen under the "Oplan Tokhang" name. AFAIK, Oplan Double Barrel came after Tokhang but people would stare you blankly if you tell them about "Oplan Double Barrel". Howard the Duck (talk) 13:49, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

• Move to "Operation Tokhang", formal suggestion, for the drug operations under the Duterte administration. Howard the Duck (talk) 13:59, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.