User talk:Mellk: Difference between revisions
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== Boyars == |
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Hello, @[[User:Mellk|Mellk]], why did you deleted my changes in boyar article? This changes aren't relevant enough to require reliable source. Kievan Rus' and Muscovy are obviously different countries, so should be putted into two different categories. Бояри is the spelling used both in Ukrainian and Russian. [[User:Shahray|Shahray]] ([[User talk:Shahray|talk]]) 09:35, 21 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:All your edits do not follow [[WP:V]] or [[WP:NPOV]]. [[User:Mellk|Mellk]] ([[User talk:Mellk#top|talk]]) 10:05, 21 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:Do you think "supreme Ukrainian rulers of Kievan Rus'" follows [[WP:NPOV]] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grand_duchy&diff=prev&oldid=1246832858]? Not even fringe sources use this kind of wording. [[User:Mellk|Mellk]] ([[User talk:Mellk#top|talk]]) 10:32, 21 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::Since Supreme rulers of Kievan Rus' quite literally named themself as "Grand Princes of Kiev"(Modern Ukraine), and Central Ukrainian lands served as core of this state, we can simply name them Ukrainian. Similarly how principalities of Moscow, Tver, Ryazan or Novgorod are named russian. [[User:Shahray|Shahray]] ([[User talk:Shahray|talk]]) 10:37, 21 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:::And which sources support this view? [[User:Mellk|Mellk]] ([[User talk:Mellk#top|talk]]) 10:38, 21 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::Support what exactly? If you mean the core of Rus', then here's a text in the Wikipedia article:"When the Varangian princes arrived, the name Rus' was associated with them and came to be associated with the territories they controlled. Initially the cities of Kiev, Chernigov, and Pereyaslavl and their surroundings came under Varangian control." Someone even tried to delete this quote, but editors replied:"The two sentences cited are supported by two reliable sources, and there is no reason to delete them. It is true that Kievan Rus' had more than just these three principalities, but it is also clear these three were the most important in its earliest phase. |
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::::About the map: The relationship of Novgorod with early Kievan Rus' is debated (Holmgårdr having a prominent place in Old Norse sources, while some suggesting Veliky Novgorod was the capital of Rurik's realm, although Rurik's historicity is in dispute), but in Rus' chronicles it usually was not grammatically or geographically considered part of the so-called "Rus' land" (Роуськая земля), in which Kiev, Chernigov and Pereyaslavl were the central patrimonies, while Novgorod had to pay tribute to Kiev". |
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::::If you mean the title of Grand Prince of Kiev, search for the article "rulers of Ukraine". |
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::::Maybe you thought "supreme Ukrainian rulers" means that Ukrainians are superior to somebody, but it really just means that princes that ruled in Ukraine were also supreme leaders of Kievan Rus'. So it doesn't changes the neutrality, it might be oversimplification but again, Novgorod is sometimes referred as russian principality. So it's not a mistake, but I think I used this wording only ones somewhere, how does this relate to boyar article or other articles? In boyar article changes aren't relevant enough to need a source, Kievan Rus' and Muscovy are obviously different countries, and there's few corrections in etymology, so if you don't mind I'll return this changes. For other articles, I will add sources later, but again why would this be such an issue if large parts of them are unsourced anyway? [[User:Shahray|Shahray]] ([[User talk:Shahray|talk]]) 16:41, 21 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::The policy is [[WP:NOR]]. If you cannot find reliable sources that fully support such statements, then the statement should be removed. [[User:Mellk|Mellk]] ([[User talk:Mellk#top|talk]]) 16:45, 21 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::So remind me again, how does this relates to boyar article or other articles? [[User:Shahray|Shahray]] ([[User talk:Shahray|talk]]) 16:59, 21 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::You wrote some paragraphs explaining why 'supreme Ukrainian rulers of Kievan Rus' is fine based on original research and does not need a citation to a reliable source that fully supports this statement. I have already told you that your edits do not follow [[WP:V]], [[WP:NPOV]] and now [[WP:NOR]]. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with these policies first before you continue to restore these edits. [[User:Mellk|Mellk]] ([[User talk:Mellk#top|talk]]) 17:07, 21 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::"Supreme Ukrainian rulers" isn't featured in most of my edits anyways, it's just that you asked, I explained. Are you sure it is original research, [[list of Ukrainian rulers]]? To other articles, of course, I will add a source and only then revert the change. |
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::::::::In Boyar article, I don't see where there's a need for additional source, and how "supreme rulers" relates to this? [[User:Shahray|Shahray]] ([[User talk:Shahray|talk]]) 17:39, 21 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::::There is no such term as boyar rada. Please start a talk page discussion instead. [[User:Mellk|Mellk]] ([[User talk:Mellk#top|talk]]) 17:48, 21 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::::Before this change, it was called "Duma" which is an organ in Russia, not in Kievan Rus'. Rada is just a general slavic term for council. You can just leave it as Boyars Council. [[User:Shahray|Shahray]] ([[User talk:Shahray|talk]]) 18:00, 21 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::::::'Boyar duma' is a modern term, but it is used in scholarship to refer to these councils. There is no such term as 'boyar rada' in English-language scholarship. Again, please start a discussion on that article's talk page instead. [[User:Mellk|Mellk]] ([[User talk:Mellk#top|talk]]) 18:02, 21 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::::::Source? If it is used, then you can just delete a link for russian duma. [[User:Shahray|Shahray]] ([[User talk:Shahray|talk]]) 18:15, 21 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::::::::"As a traditional institution, the Duma (meaning 'deliberation') had precedents in certain deliberative and advisory councils of pre-Soviet Russia, notably in the boyar dumas (existing from the 10th to the 17th century) and the city dumas (1785–1917)".[https://www.britannica.com/topic/Duma-Russian-assembly] From now on, I will only respond on the article's talk page. [[User:Mellk|Mellk]] ([[User talk:Mellk#top|talk]]) 18:24, 21 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::::::::Nevermind I found a source. In that case you can just leave it unchanged, do you have any other questions about my changes? [[User:Shahray|Shahray]] ([[User talk:Shahray|talk]]) 10:38, 22 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::::::::I don't have intention to create new topic in article's talk page, my changes are just small obvious corrections [[User:Shahray|Shahray]] ([[User talk:Shahray|talk]]) 16:32, 22 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::::::::Why did you deleted my changes again? If you don't have any other questions about the changes then why delete them? [[User:Shahray|Shahray]] ([[User talk:Shahray|talk]]) 15:58, 23 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::::::::::Your edits are not neutral. You were told to start a talk page discussion there. I will revert any future comments you make here. [[User:Mellk|Mellk]] ([[User talk:Mellk#top|talk]]) 16:00, 23 September 2024 (UTC) |
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== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment == |
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== Tinibeg == |
== Tinibeg == |
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Revision as of 20:02, 14 October 2024
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Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4Auto-archiving period: 14 days  |
Tinibeg
Tinibeg Wasn't Muslim 37.154.94.209 (talk) 16:17, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
- Please provide a source that supports your change to Christianity per WP:V. The mention of being urged to convert is not good enough. Mellk (talk) 16:22, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
Name
Hello @Mellk, you have a lot of expertise in this field, so I wanted to ask you a question here. Was "Tsardom of Russia" the formal name of the entity, or is it just the common name? Also what happened to "Great Russian Tsardom"? Did it fall out of use? PadFoot (talk) 12:04, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
- ru:Русское царство#Название will explain this better. Under Peter the Great the official name was changed to 'All-Russian Empire'. Mellk (talk) 12:16, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
- Alright, thanks. PadFoot (talk) 12:23, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment
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Undoing your changes
I noticed I am not the first one to be harrassed by you after fixing Ukrainian cities spelling. Since your remarks tend to be intimidating, discriminating and biased - I've never seen you complaining about someone using Russian spelling instead of the proper Ukrainian spelilng for a Ukrainian place, and since you've never responded to my request to undo your reverts, I've started undoing your reverts on my edits myself. If you're interested in having a discussion, we can go article by article, but it has to be a constructive dialog, ideally with some moderation because I have doubts about you're acting in good faith. Indiscriminantly reverting all my changes is not nice and this is not how you're supposed to welcome new contributors to the community. Kyiv citizen (talk) 00:02, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
Feedback request: History and geography request for comment
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