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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Doc James (talk | contribs) at 15:46, 26 September 2024 (→Proposal to add "Controversy section" as follows:). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Picture

We gotta find a better picture for this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A0D:6FC0:B84:8300:C48C:743C:7C50:7925 (talk) 17:00, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Uncited biographical information removal

Some obviously well intentioned tidbits in this otherwise well-sourced article still need to be sourced, as they reference a living person.

I checked for birthdate, tornado, but couldn't find anything that passed wiki.

Any help would help, and thanks! SkidMountTubularFrame (talk) 03:25, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

more vandalism needs to be cleaned up

There is some obvious vandalism in the infobox still, however the sources are all going to need to be checked to get these right again. I'm going to comment out some that appear to be blatantly incorrect for now. — xaosflux Talk 18:26, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Xaosflux, FYI, related issue: [1] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:41, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, yes it seems this article has been linked from some media which has drawn out additional vandals. — xaosflux Talk 18:44, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal to add "Controversy section" as follows:

Controversy

Wikipedia Editing Scandal

In 2024, Camille Herron and her husband, Conor Holt, were involved in a controversy regarding Wikipedia edits related to Herron’s athletic achievements and those of her competitors. The controversy began when it was discovered that multiple edits made to the Wikipedia pages of prominent ultrarunners such as Kilian Jornet and Courtney Dauwalter appeared to downplay their accomplishments, while simultaneously enhancing Herron’s own page. Edits traced back to Herron’s accounts—first under the name "Temporun73" and later "Rundbowie"—included removing phrases like "widely regarded as one of the best trail runners" from Jornet and Dauwalter’s profiles. However, similar accolades were added to Herron’s page, positioning her as "one of the greatest ultramarathon runners of all time"​ (Canadian Running Magazine 1)​(Athletics Illustrated 2).

The accounts linked to Herron and Holt were banned from Wikipedia for violating the platform’s conflict-of-interest policies. Despite warnings from Wikipedia administrators about the promotional nature of these edits, the couple continued making similar changes under new usernames​(Endurance Sportswire 3).

Accusations Against Competitors

Herron has also faced criticism for her conduct toward competitors who surpass her records. In September 2024, following Danish ultrarunner Stine Rex's performance, which surpassed Herron’s 48-hour and six-day world records, Herron publicly cast doubt on the validity of Rex’s achievements. She accused Rex of benefiting from "pacing," a practice that can be considered an unfair advantage under certain circumstances. Trishul Cherns, President of the Global Organization of Multi-day Ultramarathoners (GOMU), condemned Herron’s actions, stating: "Camille Herron is a good athlete, there is no doubt about that. But she uses unsportsmanlike methods when she tries to create rumours, accuse and confuse, and thus cast doubt on Stine's performance"​(Canadian Running Magazine 1)​(Athletics Illustrated 2)(TV2 4).

References: 1 https://runningmagazine.ca/the-scene/u-s-ultrarunner-camille-herron-involved-in-wikipedia-controversy/ 2 https://athleticsillustrated.com/camille-herron-caught-manipulating-wikipedia-information-on-herself-and-editing-killian-jornets-profile/ 3 https://www.endurancesportswire.com/u-s-ultrarunner-camille-herron-involved-in-wikipedia-controversy/ 4 https://nyheder.tv2.dk/samfund/2024-09-03-nu-svarer-stine-rex-paa-anklager-om-snyd-med-verdensrekord 2A05:F6C2:3C0C:0:4918:2BCC:323B:FE6A (talk) 16:07, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:BLP, we require strong sourcing for these sorts of allegations; WP:WEIGHT would also be a concern. In this case, the athleticsillustrated and endurancesportswire references are simply repeating runningmagazine.ca's story about the Wikipedia editing. Running Magazine CA likely meets WP:RS, as would the Tv2.dk source, though it doesn't mention the Wikipedia editing, just the criticism of Stine by Herron. OhNoitsJamie Talk 20:15, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. Maybe stronger sourcing will come out at a later point, maybe not. I did find a TV2 story about the Wiki edits, but it just references Runningmagazine.ca (https://nyheder.tv2.dk/samfund/2024-09-24-beskyldte-stine-rex-for-snyd-nu-beskyldes-hun-selv-for-klam-opfoersel) 2A05:F6C2:3C0C:0:4918:2BCC:323B:FE6A (talk) 20:43, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Maybe stronger sourcing will come out at a later point"
I certainly hope so. Accountability matters, especially when the edits were protracted and cartoonishly juvenile. Poemisaglock (talk) 06:37, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seems to me that with the runningmagazine and TV2.dk articles there's enough reliable sources to add a controversy section to this article -- especially as it involves misuse of Wikipedia. Beware, vanity editors! Smallchief (talk) 11:18, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The news has been featured in most relevant Spanish media outlets, both sports and general. Here are some examples: 1 2 3 4 Sergeant Batou (talk) 12:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The proposed section is relatively long and perhaps overly detailed, but there has been additional sources picking up the news. Runners World, Mens Journal but they're not really adding any new information. If we add something, I would keep it to like, one paragraph about the conflict of interest editing. Steven Walling • talk 15:43, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Steven Walling highly recommend this approach. It's worth mentioning, but her article is pretty short, and it doesn't make sense to make a quarter of it about her vandalism. Iisgray (talk) 16:01, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, WP:PROPORTION and WP:NOTNEWS matters. [2] is not about the WP-thing, but related. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:25, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How about a one-paragraph version of the proposed language as follows: "In 2024, Camille Herron and her husband, Conor Holt, were involved in a controversy regarding Wikipedia edits related to Herron’s athletic achievements and those of her competitors. Multiple edits made to the Wikipedia pages of prominent ultrarunners such as Kilian Jornet and Courtney Dauwalter appeared to downplay their accomplishments, while simultaneously enhancing Herron’s own page. Edits traced to Herron’s accounts—first under the name "Temporun73" and later "Rundbowie"—included removing phrases like "widely regarded as one of the best trail runners" from Jornet and Dauwalter’s profiles. However, similar accolades were added to Herron’s page, describing her as "one of the greatest ultramarathon runners of all time"​(Canadian Running Magazine 1)​(Athletics Illustrated 2). The accounts linked to Herron and Holt were banned from Wikipedia for violating the platform’s conflict-of-interest policies. ​(Endurance Sportswire 3)." Smallchief (talk) 16:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Added a single sentence about the issue. Though would not be opposed to a paragraph in the body of the text. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:20, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Doc James Do you think linking Running Magazine [3] (or any of the coverage I've seen so far) is problematic per WP:OUTING, since they state "this username is this person"? Or have you seen on-WP "this is me" comments I haven't? Related comments have recently been struck at WP:COIN, see edit history on September 23.[4] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:59, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ping @Xaosflux if you have an opinion. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:09, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, this [5] report doesn't seem to name usernames, though it does link the original. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:14, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Noting also that I removed the "This article has been mentioned by a media organization:" talkpage template earlier per WP:OUTING, but it has been re-added. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:29, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would also support adding a single sentence summary. There doesn't seem to a potential OUTING issue now as Camille's husband appears to have admitted to running the accounts [6]. Hemiauchenia (talk) 18:09, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would include this as a brief section titled 'Controversy,' where the essential points of the case are outlined. While it's true that the actions in question were unethical and lacked integrity, they should not overshadow an otherwise remarkable athletic career. The incident has garnered enough international media attention to be worth mentioning. Human beings can, at times, be astonishingly unpredictable... Sergeant Batou (talk) 18:42, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I strongly oppose a 'Controversy' section. This is not nearly sufficient controversy to merit any such section, and we need to get over ourselves. So someone with a COI edited an article for COI reasons: that is a reason to fix the problem, not to punish them by immortalising their misdemeanour in a controversy section. We have a conflict of interest when we start talking about ourselves. I would say leave it out entirely except that it has generated a small amount of ephemeral news. So okay, let's integrate it with the article in a single sentence, but let's be very aware that any undue weight given to this would look like us doing exactly the kind of thing she was accused of doing. We can be better than that. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 09:24, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support a section on this controversy. This has received specific and detailed coverage and thus justifies inclusion. Do not see out as an issue here as we are just summarizing reliable sources. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 14:48, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Except those are primary sources. The caution of WP:BLPPRIMARY pertains. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 15:17, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How are any of these media "trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents"? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:29, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Per "A secondary source provides thought and reflection based on primary sources, generally at least one step removed from an event.". This article in Canadian Running[7] provides a review of edits to Wikipedia (the primary source) as well as other documents (also primary sources), and is published by a reputable not associated source, so would be a secondary source. Ie it "provides thought and reflection based on primary sources, generally at least one step removed from an event"
This[8] is a primary source but we are using it cautiously so it is permitted. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:36, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 September 2024

Delete "Track" and "Road" from descriptions of GOMU records. GOMU records do not distinguish by surface. I am the GOMU records officer. See https://www.gomu.org/results-records

Bob Hearn Bobhearn (talk) 13:29, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

User:Bobhearn What are you suggesting it be changed to? Here it does mention the surfaces.[9] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:26, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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