Talk:Captain Beefheart

naming convention...

it seems odd that throughout this article the author couldnt decide if they wanted to refer to the subject as "vliet" or "van vliet" and just used either at any occasion with no rhyme or reason. isnt there already some kind of standard for this, like only using the surname given at birth, or only using the surname carried through the majority of life or career. i dont think using either surname all willy nilly however you please is any type of standard. am i mistaken here or is this a common practice im just unaware of?? Snarevox (talk) 13:49, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

The lead section says "He began performing with his Captain Beefheart persona in 1964...". So that ought to provide a pretty clear guide as when to use which name? I guess he was involved in such things as legal proceedings is birth name might have to be re-used? 15:55, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

There are several issues here. Firstly, he apparently changed his legal name from "Vliet" to "Van Vliet" around 1965. Secondly, he was known during his performing career (1964-c.1985) as "Captain Beefheart" (though at the time his "real" name of "Van Vliet" was well known). Finally, in his personal life and as a painter he was always known, I think, as "Van Vliet". My view is that he should be referred to as "Vliet" in his early life; "Captain Beefheart" (or "Beefheart") in relation to his music career; and "Van Vliet" elsewhere. There is some guidance at MOS:BIO, but it's not very helpful. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:39, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Those are very valid points. No objections. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:44, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Prodigy?

As I understand it, the only ultimate source for Beefheart's putative status as a prodigy was Beefheart himself, and according to those who knew him when he was young and worked with him, Beefheart had a pronounced proclivity for spouting untruths, particularly pertaining to himself. 17:24, 16 June 2022 (UTC)~

So the current source in the lead is a Rolling Stone article, whish originally appeared in The Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock & Roll (Simon & Schuster, 2001), and which says this: "A child-prodigy sculptor, Don Vliet (who reportedly had his name legally changed to Don Van Vliet by 1964) was noticed at age four by Portuguese sculptor Augustinio Rodriguez, who featured Vliet and his clay animals on his weekly television show for the next eight years. When Vliet was 13, his parents declined their son's scholarship to study art in Europe and moved the family to the California desert communities of Mojave, then Lancaster, where Vliet met the young Frank Zappa." Do you have any sources to disprove these claims? They are expanded somewhat in the main body of the article, but it is made clear that "Van Vliet said that he was a lecturer at the Barnsdall Art Institute in Los Angeles at the age of eleven" (Barnes 2000, p. 2). So that one is indeed a self-made claim. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:08, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Rolling Stone's ultimate source for this information is merely Van Vliet himself. Beefheart drummer John French in his book about the Magic Band casts significant doubt about the story and about Van Vliet's veracity in general. He claims to have made some considerable effort to research it. He also directly quotes several other associates of Van Vliet who are similarly doubtful. You can read a considerable portion of French's book without buying it or checking it out from the library by going to amazon.com and clicking "look inside". Read far enough, and you'll know precisely what I'm talking about. TheScotch (talk) 08:35,

The book is called "Beefheart: through the Eyes of Magic". 08:39, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

I would not be surprised if Van Vliet invented positive thinks about himself. But this begs the question of whether or not Rolling Stone is really RS here or has been undermined by better sources in this case. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:29, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

I've added two reliable sources, out of the many available, that describe him as a child prodigy sculptor, and I've amended the article text accordingly, adding two reliable sources. Just as an aside, I bought Trout Mask Replica in 1970, and found it unlistenable, "genius" or not. I did like his vocal on the song Willie the Pimp from Zappa's album Hot Rats, and still sing it occasionally.;-) Carlstak (talk) 15:26, 21 June 2022 (UTC)