User:Bookku/Mansiya V.P.

RfC: A TikToker, ... , other accused constitute 'Public figure' or not?

Some of other related policies for current requested RfC discussion: WP:BLP, WP:SUSPECT, WP:BLPPUBLIC, WP:NOTPUBLICFIGURE.

Requesting inputs about WP policies regarding, WP:BLP protocols and naming of the accused in relation to mentions of allegations and counter allegations in the given article, against a female victim of sexual assault, her associates and also other accused.

Requesting well studied, carefully thought inputs @ RfC: A TikToker, associates, other accused constitute 'Public figure' or not?

Thanks and warm regards

Table of victim blaming

		".. Investigation Reveals * * Planned Minar E Pakistan Incident As A Publicity Stunt With Her Partner * . .." As per the security guard, Ayesha had the opportunity to escape the scene once the crowd started harassing her, but she chose not to and stayed there for over two hours out of her own will. Later, she refused to file complaint with the police when they reached the scene. Meanwhile, Ayesha Akram’s Instagram posts never indicated that she was going through trauma after what happened to her at Minar E Pakistan, she was celebrating 15 August like nothing had happened a day before. After her video at Minar E Pakistan went viral on Social Media, she realised that this matter was trending and she decided to take help from Police as well as Media. ".. * * has decided to cash this unfortunate incident and she can’t see any sorrow or trauma on her face. .." https://pakistanfrontier.com/2021/07/06/op3/ ".. Recently, in an interview to HBO while answering a question about the impact of the dress code of women on the intentions of a rapist, the prime minister maintained that, “If a woman is wearing very few clothes it will have an impact; it will have an impact on the men, unless they are robots. I mean it is common sense.”  Needless to say that vulgarity does have a positive correlation with increasing rape cases but another factor that is even more important is the strict legislation and implementation of law against perpetrators. .."

References

.

	In Pakistan, tourism is a growing industry.	Promotional
	In 2010, Lonely Planet termed Pakistan "tourism's 'next big thing' for more years than we care to remember". The country is geographically and ethnically diverse, and has a number of historical and cultural heritage sites. The upsurge in tourism in the past few years has been aided by the Government of Pakistan's recent decision to end mandatory No Objection Certificates for foreign tourists seeking to visit certain parts of the country.	Okay
	Pakistan was ranked The Best Holiday Destination for 2020 and was also declared the third-highest potential adventure destination in the world for 2020.	What is the credibility of sources once known it's Pakistan Govt promoted stats
	As security in the country improves, tourism increases; in two years, it has increased by more than 300%.	Needs verification
	The country received an influx of travel vloggers, who showed the beauty of the country, especially the northern areas Hunza and Skardu.	Good but you want criticism to be curtailed and delete all the sourced criticism
	In 2018, the British Backpacker Society ranked Pakistan the world's top adventure travel destination, describing the country as "one of the friendliest countries on earth, with mountain scenery that is beyond anyone's wildest imagination". Forbes ranked Pakistan as one of the ‘coolest places’ to visit in 2019. The World Economic Forum's Travel & Tourism Competitiveness Report placed Pakistan in the top 25 per cent of global destinations for its World Heritage sites, which range from the mangroves in the Indus delta	For all those boasting and bragging Pakistan is nowhere to be seen in top ten even in Asia in UN reports. See World Tourism rankings
	In October 2006, one year after the 2005 Kashmir earthquake, The Guardian released a list of "the top five tourist sites in Pakistan" to help the country's tourism industry	Guardian is good site for this but not for critique ?
	The largest inflow of tourists are from the United Kingdom, followed by United States, India and China.	India is on 3rd No in largest inflow of tourists in Pakistan? Is everything okay? :))
	History of Pakistani Tourism	This section too is based on report of same Samira Shackle isn't it? there you did not find any need to complain and tag

• It is incorrect to say Image and influencers section is on the top, rather it comes after Lead having 6 paragraphs of all boasting and bragging and two other section out of that overview section also gives more than ample scope to put Pakistan's tourism in positive perspective.
• Image and influencers section just neutrally counter balances all the bragging in the lead. Even within the section in not entirely critical, it first puts positive side then includes critique as per WP policy to preferably have critique. That has been possible because Samira Shackle piece itself is editorially neutral giving all sides of the story and for the same reason section has used it more.
• There is no limit in increasing any section until it becomes big to fork out for a separate article. As such enough RS are available to take problems in Pakistan tourism to an article level.
• Actually there is no policy limit what percentage of article can be critical of the topic. Article is over 75 thousand bytes even if one wants to use 30% for criticism 25 thousand bytes uptil now I have not used even half of it even though various RS sources are available.
• Allegations are strange and bemusing. Part of it resorts to Whataboutism For bragging and boasting about tourism Wiki Voyage is special vehicle for that even that is also supposed to include criticism where valid.
• I do have pro women's rights pov still while including those issues I do reasonably care about editorial neutrality on my part to my best. There is not much scope for personal accusations, on Wikipedia I have taken up women rights issues across continents and wide spectrum. Pakistanis are interested whether one is criticizing situation in India too then I do that too.
• "Dawn our image is being tarnished by the assaulters, not the people crying out for protection for our citizens or the victims
• Rather it is for others to explain why they need to delete well sourced content in entirety. If any one wants an dispute resolution process and RfC per sentence of criticism to be held Idk how such additional burden that is going to help improve Pakistan's image.

• Wikipedia policies allows opinions in fact that brings in multiple views and criticism helps enhancement in neutrality
• Dawn June 20, 2022 LAHORE: Punjab will introduce stricter laws and declare an ‘emergency’ to curb the rising trend of rape cases. .. Punjab Home Minister Ataullah Tarar and Law Minister Malik Muhammad Ahmed Khan told a joint press conference .. that a cabinet committee on law and order met under the chair of Chief Minister Hamza Shehbaz Sharif .. expressed its concern over the increase in rape cases for the last over three years. .. The body decided to introduce a set of legislations to make stricter punishments for rape and set up a dedicated helpline for the victims, they said. An emergency would be declared on rape cases to proceed against the accused on a war footing. .. " If you understand urdu I will arrange to share youtube of press conference. The luck part word tourism is not used in this news but after all that is governments official admission hence that does that change the ground reality. But see the next news
• Dawn July 20, 2022: A social media activist and vlogger (US national woman), the woman was on a trip to the Fort Munro hill station, was allegedly gang-raped by her “guide” and his two accomplices. The News International Editorial Board July 27, 2022 That this happened to a woman of foreign origin makes it particularly disturbing, given Pakistan’s recent attempts at lifting its tourism potential. .. However, for the women of Pakistan, tourism is a distant concern when they are unsafe not only on the streets, in public transport, and at work but also within their homes.
• Bragging and boasting about sudden meteoric rise as attractive tourist place not because government has done any thing significant for tourism industry but facilitated influencer indued image makeover improves image or not is for travelers to decide but in Wikipedia parlance such sources getting influenced by some governmental activity and changing ranking suddenly their credibilty becomes questionable.
• Dawn October 20, 2019 The trouble with tourism Anika Khan, Rabia Nadir
• Shakir Lakhani readers comment to Dawn editorial

Bemusing Earwig finds only 22.5% similarity with guardian and says copyvio unlikely. In that too only half sentence in critique used as it is with proper attribution since usage of alternate words would have only sharpened the critique. Another quarter sentence is not exactly critique either, ".. forbidden from cycling because it is seen as immodest .." this reflection of Pakistani culture as is, I can and I will change words forbidden and immodest if you wish. The rest small matching are just facts and noun word.

• destination for western social media influencers producing glossy, upbeat travel content.
• Realities of tourism By Kamila Hyat January 13, 2022 The News International

• Lack of proper public toilets
• More thoughts on tourism, The Express Tribune Kamal Siddiqi October 25, 2021

• 
  

All this misplaced criticism of criticism ignoring other glaring copyvio, boasting and bragging. Your goodselves did not find any thing problematic in all that.

	URL	Similarity
1	https://pakistantradeportal.gov.pk/about-pakistan	94.7%
2	http://www.saise.org/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=show&catid=11&id=28	85.6%
3	https://mahtravo.com/pakistan/	54.8%
4	https://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2018/08/31/Under-Imran-Khan-Pakistan-plans-to-boost-tourism-to-create-millions-of-jobs.html	49.7%
5	https://blog.karlrock.com/can-indians-visit-pakistan-full-pakistan-india-visa-guide/	30%	.. if you have..

Friendly discussion

Ah yes our concerned Indian friends looking out for Pakistan while their country India is globally recognised as the worlds most dangerous country for women :[1] : "India is the world’s most dangerous country for women due to the high risk of sexual violence and being forced into slave labor, according to a poll of global experts released on Tuesday." You have the audacity to point fingers at others while your nation India is the lowest of the low for women? is internationally known and notorious for the way it treats it women (and other foreign women we will get to that soon). Look at how Indian nationalists have glossed over Rape in India article they make it sound like rape is not an issue how dishonest and pathetic do you have to be to hide and distort information to make it sound all nice and warm while the reality is [2] Your government and officials are hiding it but fortunately global media has exposed India enough for its rape crisis where 95% of rapes are not even reported a child is gang raped every 15 minutes but again lets focus on Pakistan. I have never met such disingenuous and dishonest people in my life Indian nationalists trying to hide their dirty under belly while flinging dirt at others just to divert attention away from them.

Lets first address your "bragging about tourism" thanks for honestly telling us where your obsession comes from so much jealousy over some positive news. You people just cannot hide your petty envy and hatred incapable of digesting any good news from Pakistan so you feel the desperate need to throw in some negative energy to soothe your wounded egos and satisfy your petty Indian nationalism. I know it burns the envy and hate spewing out is common for Bharati nationalists butt hurt over any good press Pakistan gets. Many governments use influencers and Vloggers to promote tourism.

Rape of foreign female tourists in India

Now then lets discuss how foreign female tourists are treated in India shall we? India a nation where foreign women regularly are not just sexually assaulted but MURDERED in cold blood: [3] "5 recent rape cases of foreign women Recently, a twenty five year old American tourist alleged rape and assault by five men in a five star hotel of New Delhi.

1) Danish woman who was robbed and gangraped in New Delhi Nine men raped and assaulted a 52-year-old Danish tourist who had arrived India in January 2014. After losing her way to the hotel, she asked for help from a group of men near Connaught Place who instead of helping her, took her to an isolated area and raped her."

2) A German national was raped in a moving train in Chennai In January 2014, an 18-year-old German girl on a Mangalore-Chennai reported rape to the Railway police. The German national worked as an English school teacher at a school in Karnataka and was enrolled as a volunteer at a German-based NGO.

3) A 19-year-old German tourist was raped by an unidentified auto driver in December 2015

4) Polish woman drugged, gangraped on Delhi-Mathura Highway A 33-year-old Polish woman was allegedly raped by a cab driver after he offered her a ride on the Mathura-Delhi highway. The incident was reported in January 2014.

[4] Just last month : NDTV " A British woman was allegedly raped near the Arambol beach in Goa in front of her male partner by a local man under the pretext of giving her a massage, police said on Tuesday. The accused, local resident Vincent D'Souza (32), was part of a group that illegally offered massage services near the Arambol beach in North Goa district, which is quite popular with international tourists, they said." Horrific how so many foreign women are getting raped in your motherland yet you have not created a page in regards to this. Why is the Tourism in India page contain so much bragging? where is the section on rape of foreign tourist do you have the courage and dignity to add it? off course thats too much to ask from a Indian nationalist who will shamelessly deflect and point fingers elsewhere.

[5] Innocent 15 year old teenager Scarlett Keeling drugged first and brutally raped then MURDERED by your people in India where is the outrage and energy for these innocent women who made the mistake to visit the RapePublic of India? why is there no article on this disgusting hypocritical behavior.

This just goes on and on and on and on.....shocking and disturbing how no Indian has the honesty to even mention this on the Tourism in India pretending nothing happens there and its some haven for females! https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/1673183/three-indians-arrested-over-gang-rape-and-abduction-japanese-woman This time a Japanese female was unlucky enough to make the mistake of travelling to India do you people have no shame? I could list MANY MANY more instances where female tourists have faced murder and rape but still you heart less shameless Indian nationalists would rather fling mud on other nations knowing full well your nation is a cesspit of violence and rape against females.

[6] USA is now warning its citizens particularly its women to stay away from India "The State Department also noted that rape is one of the fastest growing crimes in India. Violent crime, such as sexual assault, has occurred at tourist sites and in other locations, it said. Moreover, the travel advisory also cautioned US citizens that “terrorists may attack with little or no warning, targeting tourist locations, transportation hubs, markets/shopping malls, and government facilities,” it continued. “If you decide to travel to India… Do not travel alone, particularly if you are a woman,” the statement read linking to a guide for women travelers." You people have some nerve to even criticize others while your house is full of filth despicable how you ignore these glaring facts and sources.

Reliable sources detailing how foreign women feel unsafe in India due to rape: https://www.dw.com/en/tourism-numbers-down-sharply-in-india/a-16712581 Sources stating females shunning India for Tourism why is there no mention ? https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/after-attacks-women-tourists-to-india-fall-by-35-per-cent-517748 Female tourism down 35% after mass rapes and assaults on foreign women and native ones shocking how this is not mentioned in the Tourism in India article...

Influencers/Vloggers raped in India

All that outrage over one unfortunate influencer in Pakistan you Indians started celebrating to early no mention of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myhubCtp-DI&t=0s Karl Rocks female friends were all abused millions of views why is there no Indian attention on this?

When will we get an article on Rape of foreign tourists in India, Love in India etc

Wow what can I say I could go on and on and on and on about rape/abuse of women in India Wikipedia was once a decent place but the advent of Indian nationalist trolls and their minions have turned it into a circus of lies and misleading information. Heres a challenge I dare you if you have any shame or honor add the same information to Tourism in India regarding rape of foreign females and also balance out Rape in India which is now just a pathetic whitewashed article downplaying Indias rape crisis but alas I cannot expect such honesty or decency because you Indians are blinded with such a rabid form of nationalism you are willing to turn a blind eye and allow these things to happen to your daughters, sisters and mothers all the while shamelessly dragging other countries into it as a means to deflect away from your sins. You know the saying right? People in glass houses should not throw stones. ImmortalTruthIII (talk) 22:33, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

.

First of all I have added those bullet points only after your call, and those are still to be discussed from your side. I waited from my side because some other user intervened with RfC and I wanted to handle discussion in different way.

But even before that, if you are closely following up blasphemy related news from India since N.S.' debate controversy, you would please understand every couple of days a new blasphemy related controversy is getting added up in the debate (most of that is missing from the article) , as a result free speech is getting hit from all sides, keeping aside political and religious polarization the most voiceless are skeptics like 'Saad Ansari', Idk who understands concerns of skeptics and atheists who do not have political or religious backing and not even proper media support. We can see mentions about him just this article went into lock, once that is removed I am expecting those and similar mentions being undermined.

IMHO When free speech is being hit hard to me real concern is not limited to tag of neutrality but underlying political and religious polarization's undermining spirit of encyclopedic neutrality among Wikipedians. It is easier to control POV pushing of novice editors, if all the experienced users decide not to resort to Wikipedia:Civil POV pushing then only spirit of neutrality and quality of neutrality will improve.

All above is for this article only. I am coming up one by one because I am not just remain obsessed

Kali film poster controversy

• https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-62033006
• https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/after-indias-objection-canada-expresses-deep-regret-over-kaali-poster-3131162
• https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/leena-manimekalai-kaali-poster-row-case-against-filmmaker-for-hurting-religious-sentiments-3128259
• https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/kaali-poster-row-mahua-moitra-leena-manimekalai-fir-1970943-2022-07-06
  • 
    

.

Her own testimony
is not enough

".. Even if she comes forward,
she is only taken seriously
if two or more women also
come out in support of
her claim against the accused.
Her own testimony is not enough
and our tragedy,.., ..
while Qanoon e Shahadat
reduced women to half,
expectation of
other women supporting
the victim’s claim
in harassment cases
.. further reduced women
to a fraction of their being. .. "

Law and women: an unequal relationship
~ Nida Usman Chaudhary,
Daily Times (Pakistan),
May 11, 2018

• Taha Siddiqi
• Age

الآن أطرح السؤال الأهم: من الذى أساء للسيدة «عائشة»؛ السياسى الهندى أم نحن المسلمون؟.. من الذى شوه سيرة نبى الرحمة؟ «الهندى» أم «البخارى»؟

https://www.memri.org/reports/egyptian-journalist-problem-not-statements-insulting-prophet-uncritical-acceptance#_edn8

	Who decides what is a 'strict' dress code? ~ JJLiu112 No we have removed word 'strict' But answer who decides seems clear	“Islam does not allow women to mingle with men. There should be a curtain between women and men…women can enjoy everything, watch everything from beyond that curtain,’’ said Musaliyar, who is a senior functionary of Samastha Kerala Sunni Vidyabhyasa Board, which regulates madrasa education in Kerala. Date :14 th May 2022 Ref: https://indianexpress.com/article/india/kerala/kerala-muslim-cleric-class-x-girl-support-7917078/

“Islam does not allow women to mingle with men. There should be a curtain between women and men…women can enjoy everything, watch everything from beyond that curtain,’

~ Musaliyar https://indianexpress.com/article/india/kerala/kerala-muslim-cleric-class-x-girl-support-7917078/

• 
  

Najma Al Zidjaly study

• mediated discourse and nexus analysis (MDNA)
• Arabs without God
• discrediting linguistic strategies used by Ex-Muslims on Twitter, including intertextuality, humor, and sarcasm, see Al Zidjaly, 2019b

Ex-Muslim activism on social media

• https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/ex-muslims-organise-eating-protests-outside-embassies-in-london-16147-2016-06-24
• https://www.rug.nl/research/centre-for-religious-studies/research-centres/centre-religion-conflict-globalization/blog/exmuslimbecause-popular-terminology-among-islams-non-believers-01-03-2019?lang=en

According to Najma Al Zidjaly

Najma Al Zidjaly says

*