User talk:Joy

I am requesting a name change to Joy. --Shallot 12:16, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I will not archive my talk page. If you want to know why, read it. --Joy [shallot] 19:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome, newcomer

Hello Shallot, welcome to Wikipedia. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian. You can learn more on the how to edit page. The naming conventions and style guide pages are also useful. There is a sandbox which you can use to experiment in. If you have any questions, see the help pages or add a question to the village pump. If you ever think a page or image should be deleted, please list it at the votes for deletion page. There is also a votes for undeletion page if you want to retrieve something that you think should not have been deleted. Angela 21:24, 24 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Talk with Denny

Hi Shallot, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't change the signed comments of anyone in talk pages without clear notice, even minor changes. In my statement on the Ustasha talk page I meant the war of 1995, not the 1991-1995 war, and even if I was wrong factually, you just shouldnt change my talk, this is considered very rude, but instead point it out. I hope we will reach a great teamwork on such disputed topics and should try to calm down. After you read this note, you may delete it. --denny vrandecic 13:41, Sep 14, 2003 (UTC)

Er, okay, sorry. I thought you just omitted the starting year. It's somewhat incorrect to say war of just 1995 since not all of those people became refugees that year. (In fact it goes hand in hand with the somewhat offensive notion of a bunch of separate wars rather than one big aggression, and you didn't seem like one to be perpetuating pan-Serb myths. :) Once again I apologize, I thought it was minor enough not to be worth mentioning. --Shallot 13:49, 14 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I meant specifically the operation Oluja, and if I remember correctly, this was a 1995 only thing. You are absolutely right that the actual war has begun earlier, but in this one case I thought Igor did especially reference Oluja, and I didn't want to include more then, thus making it even harder to talk about. I do not plan on perpetuating any myths, I just want to find out the truth - even if it is a dark truth about my own country. But I do see that here are some, who push their points very hard, without much concern to the truth. I certainly don't count you into that group. But we have to calm down, try to reach a consensu, and if this does not work, take the appropriate steps. And then it would be much nicer to be regarded as the 'good guys'. - As said, you may delete this talk after reading, or even just parts of it, not everyone needs to know my masterplan ;) Sve najbolje! --denny vrandecic 23:13, Sep 14, 2003 (UTC)

P.S.: would you please allow Igor the chance to make the changes himself I asked him to do? This would be nice. Just wait a few days or so, and if he doesn't change it, we can still do it. I just want to see, if he is willing to cooperate in any way, or if other actions are needed. Thanks. --denny vrandecic 23:18, Sep 14, 2003 (UTC)

I sincerely doubt you'd get any sort of meaningful cooperation from someone who cites srpska-mreza.com as a real resource. That stuff is really appalling.

Of course, I won't touch the page. I've mostly steered clear of that page so far, there's just too much stuff there to be able to fix in one sweep without completely rewriting it. --Shallot 23:41, 14 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Thank you! Yes, you are right, this side needs some major rework. But this will need time, and I (being the incredible optimist that I am) believe, we can reach an excellent article on this - and the article will have a very special, brilliant quality if we really can create it together with Igor, Nikola and others. I have hope... --denny vrandecic 00:12, Sep 15, 2003 (UTC)

Wow! Great work. Many thanks.

Now let's see, what points will be further discussed, but I like it a lot already. --denny vrandecic 22:13, Sep 17, 2003 (UTC)

I decided to try to fix a lot of it. We'll see.

P.S.: please, could you check w:hr:3. januar if it is translated properly? I rather mean the template for the date-articles than the special day, but if it is ok, I would apply this template to the other days, and it is easier to check such a template once, before applying it, than afterwards changing a 366 articles... Thanks already!

There's a few small mistakes in the language, nothing important, I guess. --Shallot 23:19, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Cyrillic

Just saw your edit on Croatian language. Could you tell me how does Croatian Glagolitic differ from other Glagolitics? Nikola 20:13, 28 Sep 2003 (UTC)

It is my understanding that there are several different forms of Glagolitic letters and that some of them are only found on artifacts from Croatia, like the Baška tablet. --Shallot 11:12, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Neologisms

I have noted your comments at Talk:Croat and Bosnian neologisms. Please feel free to add an Wikipedia:Accuracy dispute header if you feel it is deserved. Cheers, Cyan 02:38, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Serbian nationalism

I've noticed you're edits to the ethnic cleansing page. You should carefully watch User:Igor and User:Nikola Smolenski, they seem to think that the wikipedia is a dispensary for Serbian propaganda. Take a look at some of the articles they have worked on (and which I have attempted to undo the worst of).

Kosovo War Slobodan Milosevic Prishtina

And that's only some of them. G-Man 12:08, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Indeed. I have lamented Igor's, and to an extent also Nikola's, slanted point of view on several occasions already. I only happened to notice the blunder on the ethnic cleansing page today; I would have intervened earlier had I known. It's pretty hard to battle seasoned propaganda, and in several pages I actually gave up disgusted with the amount of nonsense that would need to be fixed.

There's plenty of other examples; sadly, the better part of my contributions is about this! :( --Shallot 18:00, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)

You're not the only one, I tried to persuade User:Dori an Albanian contributor to attempt to NPOV the Kosovo War article, but he gave up terrified after a few edits. I would try to do it myself, but I'me not an expert on Balkan affairs G-Man 18:21, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Serbo-Croatian

Nice editing on Serbo-Croatian. Thanks. Zocky 12:50, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I saw your mass-edits and decided it was as good as time as any to structure it better, and particularlly in a less partisan manner, a work I tried to begin a few weeks ago but got sidetracked. I'm glad you liked it. --Shallot 15:04, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Czechia

I have no objection to the usage of Czechia. Lirath Q. Pynnor

Neologisms again

Responding to a flamebait article with a flamebait... sadly, I'm not surprised. It's not exactly an example of tolerance to assert that because one group of people uses some word, another group needs to use it as well

It wasn't my intention to flame. I'm arguing that a language standard serves more as a restriction on what can be used in official publication. For example, if one used a word that wasn't mentioned in an official dictionary in a book or newspaper article, it would get lectored. I believe that a dictionary should thus contain not only frequently used words, but also words used at all as long as they're not incorrect for whatever reason. I personally know Croat Muslims that use the mentioned word although they say they speak Croatian language.

Agreed, but there's a time and place for everything. If most people wouldn't understand a word, it should be replaced with a more common word among the audience -- I assure you that a whole bunch of people in Croatia wouldn't know what dajdžinica stands for, regardless of which language they speak :) That is, using different words doesn't necessarily stem from nationalist or even purist sentiment. --Shallot 15:59, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Can't we simply agree that this grossly factually incorrect and stridently biased article needs to go the way of the dodo?

I agree. We should vote it off. Can you organize a few more votes? - Vedran

I'll have to investigate how the deletion voting works, but I'm pretty sure we could find support. --Shallot 15:59, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Removed sentence from a talk page

I'm really getting sick and tired of rebuffing your preposterous pan-Serbist ideas, Igor.

You are, of course, right, but i deleted the above sentence from the talk page. No sense in getting him even more excited. If you mind, just revert. Zocky 14:59, 2 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Well, I don't care much. I have already filed a complaint against him; I don't care if my lamentations get removed as long as something gets done about it. --Shallot 17:55, 2 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Vedran user page

Thanks for devandalizing my user page ;) I had exams so I was unable to visit wikipedia (and probably will be for about a month). --Vedran 13:10, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I happened to notice that your username started to appear as a blue link rather than red, and fixed the obvious nonsense there. Good luck with your exams. --Shallot 17:18, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Where the word "Bojinka" comes from

The word DOES come from Serbo-Croat, but it is also an Arabic slang word. WhisperToMe 18:38, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Well, you'll have to quote me the source -- an LA Times journalist is not particularly useful. It's my mother tongue, I never heard of it and it hardly even looks like a word in this language. --Shallot 19:37, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Serbo+Croatian+Bojinka

There are about 1,320 google hits with Bojinka and Serbo Croatian in it.

I think Serbo Croatian is the entire language family, while Croatian is a member of the family.

Among the sources is this: http://www.time.com/time/asia/features/malay_terror/hambali4.html WhisperToMe 00:10, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

None of that makes me any less sure that they're wrong. Google searches are fuzzy by default. Relationship among the languages is not really the issue here, none of the members of the central-south Slavic languages include the word either, to my knowledge. Journalists usually don't hesitate to copy&paste minor details without verifying them. The Croatian/Serbo-Croatian word for "explosion" is eksplozija, BTW. --Shallot 01:43, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Presidential flag?

I have never seen one. The federal flag with the coat of arms was the presidential flag. It was square and had a border in alternating red-white-blue. Maybe the same is true for republic flags. Zocky 12:39, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)

BCS grammar

I googled for "jotation" and the third link (a largish .pdf) is a real gem. A great resource for Serbo-Croatian and related pages. Zocky 05:04, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC) (BTW, I think that some of the opening material is based on our wikipedia article :)

It's a bit large and I'm on a modem connection right now; I'll check it ASAP, thanks. --Shallot 11:01, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Underscores in redirects

Hi, There is no reason to struggle with underscores in redirects: wiki creates them automatically when you move a page. Do you want to fight a robot?:-) Mikkalai 18:04, 6 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Kosovo War

Hi Shallot, thanks for your comments on my talk page on the Kosovo War article. I've posted some questions to Talk:Kosovo War about what the scope of the article should be, now that it's been written - it may be appropriate to present the political background on a separate page and confine the Kosovo War article to covering just the military conflict. I'd be grateful for your views. -- ChrisO 10:40, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Operation Storm

OK, you are right, this page is linked to List of military and non-military operations and projects the link page proves it. I'll be darned if I can find the link, but it must be there somewhere.

Care to give me a hint?

Paul, in Saudi

Use the search-in-page function of your browser :) It's under the letter O, as the original name is Oluja. I put it there because all other operations are sorted that way. --Shallot 14:01, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Zagreb county

That's interesting - that means my souce map is flat out wrong. It does show the western part, but not the southern part - Zagreb county being shown as two detatched areas. I will rectify all my maps. Morwen 13:53, Feb 7, 2004 (UTC)

I was quite pleasantly surprised that you had the maps at all -- this was a just a minor glitch for me to fix :) I believe that your map may be reflecting an outdated situation, because I seem to remember some border changes as well. I fixed the two pertinent maps myself, thanks for doing it on the others and thanks for doing that at all, it's just what the county pages needed! --Shallot 13:56, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Happy to help. My next concern is going to be patching all the other 19 maps ;) Will do this an re-upload. I'll put them all somewhere so you can upload them at your leisure for new counties articles. Morwen 14:03, Feb 7, 2004 (UTC)

Editing Croatian entries

Thanks for your nice note about my editing. I'm thrilled that they're producing so much info, while all I'm doing is editing. What's especially cool is that whoever it is is apparently going back and checking facts and finding more info, because some of the existing pages are changing and growing (even to minute details) daily. That does make it challenging to keep up with his/her not-quite-perfect English. :-) But I've edited software engineering documents that engineers are *paid* to write that are much worse than these! Maybe if we both keep trying to catch them with invites to register, they'll eventually notice the messages and follow through. Elf 16:26, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Small peoples

I see, you started a number of new pages for peoples. Please see The Red Book of the Peoples of the Russian Empire and its talk page. It seems that the whole Red Book may be put into wikipedia. Mikkalai 09:16, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Cool. I was editing Turkic people and noticed how many don't have pages (I wonder if even half of the Dagestani nations have an article), and went ahead to correlate most of them to the parts of the Russian Federation where they live in because that's at least something. --Shallot 13:54, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Separatism edit war

The point is, that some have POV mis-represented "white supremacism" as being "white separatism" when these two are really NPOV quite distinct.

So kindly explain that in the submission or on the talk page, don't litter pages with endless copy&pastes. --Shallot 17:27, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Zerjavic

I note that the article on Zerjavic is now utterly biased in favor of him. Is it still too much for you to have the bit about accusations of Holocaust denial in there? Would you like to add speculation to the article regarding Zerjavic's presumed lofty place in heaven, too? Everyking 21:46, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

(Is that supposed to be funny?) The article's msg:NPOV marker now applies more than ever. And I saw it coming a miiiiiiile away, but no, you couldn't just let me delete it, we had to have all this litany. --Shallot 22:53, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Understand something. I may have said this two dozen times, but maybe I haven't been blunt enough: I have no interest in debating the death toll at Jasenovac. I have no interest in settling political issues, either. I am interested in creating a neutral and balanced article. Even if you succeeded in persuading me that your figures were correct, it would make absolutely no difference, because my only point in being involved with the Zerjavic article is to make it sound neutral, and anti-Zerjavic feeling still has to be represented regardless of what I think. That is how Wikipedia works. Your attempts to make me out to be prejudiced and agenda-driven just because I disagree with you are pointless and pathetic. Everyking 20:13, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The problem is that the article started with an unsubstantiated opinion, and nobody provided any reasoning for it. People who insist on unsubstantiated opinions being worthy of mention as anything other than what they are (if we list them verbatim, that gives the impression that they have a meaning, whereas that's not necessarily the case and in this particular case I am led to believe that they are indeed baseless), those people I cannot see as anything other than prejudiced, and given that the original piece was written with someone who's _definitely_ agenda-driven, and that you were arguing the same point in a similar manner, the link is inevitable.

One simply cannot say that Zerjavic is lying about the death toll at Jasenovac, not back that up, and expect that all is well, nobody will mind. You don't build neutral articles based on random disparaging claims. --Shallot 21:36, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

They are worthy of mention if many people believe them. Obviously. And since the article merely states what some people think, I cannot begin to explain your problem, except to think that this is some kind of nationalistic crusade on your part. Everyking 22:05, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

But nobody has demonstrated these "many people". The two museums mentioned certainly don't seem to believe that. The latest information is that it's the editors of pavelicpapers.com, but that site looks no less biased than Zerjavic's book title. I've been asking for the replacement of gossip with actual facts ever since day one, that is the only "crusade" I'm on. --Shallot 23:37, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The CCP

You are right in that it is rubbish as it is, but I deleted the notice because I felt it was a bit unencyclopedic. You may notice I included the "this article is a stub" notice at the end, which I think is far better for the Wikipedia. I am putting the "stub" notice at the top so that people realize the article is practically uninformative. Thanks for pointing it out. Pfortuny 08:35, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Macedonian CoA

After independance in 1992 Macedonia retained the old coat of arms adopted in 1946 as the emblem of the People's Republic of Macedonia within Yugoslavia. So please don`t change it again. --User:Avala

NISU PROMENILI GRB! VEROVATNO ZELE DA ZADRZE ISTI MAKAR NA NEKO VREME DA IMAJU NEKI KONTIUITET. NJIHV NAZIV JE BJRM. ZASTO SRBI NISU PROMENILI STARI GRB? ZATO STO SE ISTORIJA NE MENJA JEDNIM POTEZOM. NPR. NA SRPSKOM GRBU PISU DVE GODINE 1804(USTANAK PROTIV TURSKE) I 1941(ZASEDANJE AVNOJA) TO SU SVE GODINE IZ SRPSKE ISTORIJE I NEMA SVRHE VRACATI GRB IZ 1800 I NEKE ILI IZMISLJATI NESTO NOVO. AKO JE PROBLEM ZVEZDA PA IMAJU JE I ITALIJANI PA STA! KOMUNIZAM IONAKO MOZDA NIJE LOSA ZAMISAO ALI KADA BI JE NEKO OSTVARIO! STA JE JOS PROBLEM? REKA ILI PLANINA ZITO NA GRBU? NE BIH REKAO.

According to the Macedonian Heraldry website, the coat of arms of Macedonia doesn't appear on the passports. A proposal by a MP to remove the red star wasn't accepted. It seems that the change of the coat of arms creates many problems. The adoption of the traditional gold lion on red shield seems not to be possible because (according to the website):

the VMRO-DPMNE party already adopted the gold lion on red as its own emblem;
Albanian parties are opposed to this coat of arms "blaming it for only representing the Macedonians (as people) and not others."
Among others many say that it is a Bulgarian symbol.

ON THE OFFICIAL PRESIDENT OF MACEDONIA WEBSITE YOU CAN SEE THE SAME CoA [1]

That is why we still have the old socialist type coat of arms.

New Prevlaka article

Hi Shallot, have you seen Neutral Territory of Prevlaka yet? It looks like it could do with some copyediting by someone who knows the situation there - which I don't to any great extent, unfortunately. -- ChrisO 23:14, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I think it's plain wishful thinking and definitely not for an encyclopedia, but I am not bored enough to go explaining such really obvious things... at least not yet. --Shallot 11:03, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Map

Yes. However, I am basing my maps on raster maps - that is merely a zoom of ther larger map. Morwen 21:34, Mar 27, 2004 (UTC)

Historical regions of the Balkan Peninsula

Could you please have a look and tell me if it's better now? --Kpalion 22:44, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Free Software

Maybe so, but why is it wrong to bring the number of free software packages at Debian up to date?

My reason for the rest was to explain that Debian isn't only about one O/S but that the project works with other OSs too to enlarge the Free Software movement. Some people will think Debian is only about 'selling' one version of Linux, not about enlarging the whole Free Software movement. Whereas you and I know that Debian is about more than just another distro.

--Tim

DIALECT

Re: "Biased sentence:" I apologize, I truly did not realize that my sentence appeared to be biased. I was only trying to straighten out some clumsy vocabulary and grammar ("a similar amount of differences" is ungrammatical, as "amount" is supposed to be used only with uncountable nouns whereas "differences" is countable). My rewording was not intended to indicate bias, and I am sorry that it gave that impression. I realize that on sensitive topics, words sometimes have unintended connotations. I have changed the sentence again, this time to " whereas the standard languages of Serbia and Croatia, which differ from each other to a similar extent as the dialects of English, are being treated... " I hope this is both grammatical and free from perceived bias. If you are still unhappy about the wording, I am happy to discuss it further on the talk page attached to the article. Once again, I hope we can come up with something that is both grammatically correct and unambiguously neutral in meaning. Davidcannon 11:05, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thank you so much for answering me on my talk page. Thank you for your kind words. I see from your user page that you are Croatian, so I think I can now understand why you took so great an interest in the comments made about Croatian and Serbian. I'm glad that the issue has been resolved so quickly and so amicably. Davidcannon 01:57, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Re: "Italians 'disambiguation'"

Quote: "Some of those disambiguations Italians -> Italians are wrong. In many pages, the ethnic group is meant, not the immediate country of origin."

I realize this, but the page Italian that I was disambiguating does not list a page for the Italian ethnic group; it was implied that the page for the Italian ethnic group was, in fact, Italy. Note that #2 says "An Italian person" but gives no wikilink. I assumed that there wasn't one; if there was one, you'd think it'd be listed. Also, I see no link to a separate "ethnic group" page on Italy.

In other words, if you think there should be a separate page for "Italian (ethnic group)" - which there does not seem to be at present - then go for it. But my edits do not seem to have been in error. --Golbez 07:00, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

You may be right, but this seems standard among many groups - there is no separate page for "Spanish ethnic group" or "French ethnic group" or "Greek ethnic group" either, that I can find. The only major one I can find in the region, based on my cursory glance, is Ethnic German, which is a stub. In other words, I was disambiguating what appears to be the proper place. If and when an "Italian ethnic group" page is created, then the links can be transferred. I will keep this in mind for the future, however. --Golbez 07:12, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Stjepan Radic

I like the quote you put in regarding "geese into the fog." Hvala lijepo. I tweaked it to include "flying" for more emphasis, but I don't know if he used it in Croatian, or simply use the form "to go". You corrected yourself in that Radic didn't (couldn't) have said this in parliament in 1918 since there wasn't one established yet. But you said in your edit comment that he made it in the narodno vijece. Does that mean "national assembly"? --User:Alcarillo 18:40, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the quote -- I incorporated it into the text and tweaked the article some more.

-- User:Alcarillo 20:10, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Penalty Area

Just for my information - do people in metric countries really refer to the "16 metre box"? Bob Palin 00:41, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Well, yeah, though I'm not sure about English per se. I inserted it there mainly to make sure we're not preferring imperial units, but I'm sure people are generally aware that it's a sixteen meter box even if they don't use a compound term. --Shallot 11:48, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Marco Polo

Compliments on your attempt to put some structure to Marco Polo. The section you rightfully improved with paragraphs was added by User:203.221.225.81, who's done something similar on Asthma. IMHO the stuff added is unreadable and would only improve after extremely heavy editing and shuffling. For the moment, I've reverted his work; if you disagree, please revert back to your last version... JFW | T@lk 13:58, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your talk page response. 203.221.225.81 has apparently done school projects on Asthma and Marco Polo and felt he/she could copy&paste his Word document straight into Wikipedia—quod non.

JFW | T@lk 16:36, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)

State leader names

That explanation of the lack of good links would make sense, yeah. I'll be checking the names to see if there is an article under a slightly modified name. Please feel free to help out if you notice any in particular that you know have articles. Thanks. -- Jonel 23:38, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

History of Croatia

When I read through it before there seemed to be a lot of grammatical errors and unclear passages which I didn't feel comfortable editing because of my unfamiliarity with the subject matter. Passages which were written in such a way that the subject or object were unclear etc but which one couldn't fix if one wasn't certain what was actually being referred to. I've just glanced at the article again (quickly) and it seems to have improved. I'll look at it more closely when I have time but at the moment nothing stands out as ambiguous or unclear. If I find something I find difficult to understand I'll bring it to your attention. AndyL 01:08, 1 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it seems ok now but still a bit POV in placesAndyL 17:24, 1 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't bias but I'm unsure what this means:

The king imposed a new constitution in 1931 and held new elections for the parliament, but with a single allowed candidate list.

"Milosovic and his clique" sounds a bit pejorative. In English the word "clique" has a negative connotation so while I actually think it's a good description it shows a POV. The only other thing is it would be better to explain how memories of WWII were used rather than just say they were "manipulated". I'm sure you're right but better to explain what was done (references to war time atrocities against Serbs?) and let the reader conclude that these memories were manipulated rather than just say they were manipulated. That's a minor point though. I think that's it. Given the suject matter I'm impressed by how balanced the article is. Good job. AndyL 18:29, 1 May 2004 (UTC) Overall I think the piece is quite fair and balanced. There are a few phrases used that suggest a POV though[reply]

Hi, Joy. (Moram se ograditi od nenamjerne pogrješke.) I have to give a "statement" here. In one of previous versions of History of Croatia article, there was a mine edition that, contained the sentence "The Belgrade Museum.... ...preferrably Jews". These lines ended there by mistake. I've probably cut them from somewhere on Wikipedia, instead deleting them. Somehow, when I was pasting the text ,that I thought I've copied, into the History of Croatia, I've pasted the text I intended to delete. I've pasted the wrong text. As you've probably noticed it, these aren't my typical words. Zalijepio sam krivi tekst. Znaš ono, označiš nešto za kopirati, ali u Clipboardu ostane nešto drugo. Onda ti malo se sruši browser, ili ti 10 minuta "kuha" snimanje stranice, a ne znaš kako će ispasti... Pozdrav ti, Kubura 12:30, 29 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Europe

Please see discussion at Talk:Europe and MediaWiki talk:Europe. Thank you, Pædia | talk 17:19, 2004 May 4 (UTC)

Image:Croatia flag large.png / Wikipedia:Requested pictures

You discussed the coratian flag with User:Grendelkhan, and he placed a request on Wikipedia:Requested pictures, so I thought I let you know too: I have downloaded the coratian flag from the CIA World Factbook, and corrected the coat of arms (COA) placement and 2:1 ratio using OpenOffice.org (Draw). I assumed with the incorrect placement you meant the horizontal lines of the COA aligned with the red/white/blue borders. I also trimmed the edges a bit to get the COA centered according to the previous low res version, and the flag into a 2:1 ratio. Now the only difference is a slighly different blue color in the top left, center, and right part of the coat of arms. Not sure which version is correct or if it needs correcting. Let me know and I can GIMP it. -- Chris 73 | Talk 04:56, 14 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Carpathian Ruthenia

Hi, I have prepared a new article in place of the old one, which is a obvious non-sense. Please, feel free to express your opinion. Talk:Carpathian Ruthenia Yeti 20:58, 15 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Controversial message

Hi, why did you move the controversy message from the Kerry article to the talk page? The article should make the editors read the talk page before editing, when they already read talk it does not make sense to advice them to do so any longer.

Strange, but ok.

Another thing, I saw you are from Croatia. Would you be interested in a project about learning, mainly vocabulary? Please check my page and let me know. Get-back-world-respect 14:25, 16 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Nikola Tesla cleanup request

Hello Shallot, I noticed you deleted Nikola Tesla from Wikipedia:Cleanup, stating that you were moving the comments to the article's talk page. That was quite a few hours ago and the comments have not reappeared at Talk:Nikola Tesla, so I guess you forgot what you were doing. Also, you didn't just delete the comments, but the entire entry, which you're not supposed to do until the cleanup problems are resolved. So, I put it back. Securiger 02:18, 19 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, sorry! I somehow parsed "pages needing attention" as "the pages needing attention". My apologies. Securiger 01:47, 20 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

liturgical language of Croatia

Hello! I thought your original text was a reference to VII. I think this entry Eparchy of Krizevci would be cleaner without reference to VII, which happened many centuries later and isn't really relevant. Can we omit that then, and just keep your extra facts about language in that area? And can you add dates? Like this:

The most salient fact, apart from that of following the Byzantine liturgical tradition, is that in the 9th Century Pope Innocent IV gave the Croatian Catholics the privilege of celebrating the Divine Liturgy in their own language, which Church scholars had helped to standardize. [2] This privilege was subsequently extended (when?) to the churches in Croatia of both the Latin Rite and the Eastern Rite (omit section re VII).

Thanks for your helpful edit! Trc | [msg] 13:14, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Iranian/Turkic

As you have noticed there is a guy who try to "improve" history removing everything about iranian peoples in history and replacing it with Turkic, what is obviously a nonsense. I would like to ask you to participate in combating any unjustified changes. Regards. Yeti 13:26, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Ruthenia

Dear Shallot,

sorry for removing some of your recent changes. I agree, they made previously VERY VERY VERY bad article to be just very very bad article. However, I'd like to make much more changes in style and content. What do you think of my version? Drbug 23:02, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Disambiguing Yugoslavia

It's nice that you are disambiguing Yugoslavia, but please do it with more thought. Two disambiguations I reambiguated were about Sava Centar (the biggest concert hall in SFRY and in FRY) and destroyed multiethnic societies (both KoY and SFRY were destroyed). I haven't gone through all your edits, so if you had second thoughts about some ofthem, consider reambiguing yourself. Thanks. Nikola 06:37, 6 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Seeign your reply, I'd just urge to err on the side of caution; it is much easier to find ambiguous links and think about them again then to find wrongly disambiguated links. Nikola 07:51, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

vojislav kostunica

I wrote some-check the grammar

I added th owl thing too :) :) :)

Avala 16:14, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

government of croatia

I have made an article about Government of Croatia. But still we need an intro. I am really not competent so you will have to right it. :)

Avala 16:31, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

thanks for the intro I could use it in Serbian government article too cause it`s almost the same thing :)

you can write something about current government , parties involved , percent of vote and seats...

Avala 18:40, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Croatian parliamentary election, 2003

i don`t understand one part of this article

Serbs: 3
Hungarians: 1
Italians: 1
Czechs and Slovaks: 1
Austrians, Bulgarians, Germans, Poles, Roma, Romanians, Rusyns, Russians, Turks, Ukrainians, Vlachs and Jews: 1
Albanians, Bosniaks, Montenegrins, Macedonians, Slovenians: 1

why don`t we write

Serbs: 3
Hungarians, Italians, Czechs and Slovaks, Austrians, Bulgarians, Germans, Poles, Roma, Romanians, Rusyns, Russians, Turks, Ukrainians, Vlachs and Jews,Albanians, Bosniaks, Montenegrins, Macedonians, Slovenians: 1

why do we separate those minorities with same number of seats?

Avala 18:45, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Arpads

Have you changed anything in the text of the article (besides adding the Croatian name and inserting spaces)? Because I see just a "red sea" under History :)) Juro

User:Juro

Tito talk

Heh, you were a bit too quick :) Justification is on Talk:Josip Broz Tito now. The whole thing should be removed, IMO. Zocky 12:40, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

dear joy, i don't know how else to reach you to tell you this but. hvala. you being croatian should know what that means. thank you for protecting the integrity of the greatest man this planet has ever seen. ZIVIO TITO!!! -adela

how did they connect?

how did croatian ,whoever wrote that law, connected Austrians, Roma, Bulgarian, Turkish and Jews for one seat in the parliament? I can understand Czechs and Slovaks but this is stupid.

I had a little trip to Montenegro las two weeks so it`s a reason for my exclusion. Sorry for not leaving a note.

Avala 13:51, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

yes but still, how would bulgariand feel if that one place is given to austrian just becuase there are more austrians. It is just not fair enough to smallest minorities.

Avala 14:02, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Krizevci

Thanks for your work on this article. I still have a couple questions you might be able to clear up. First what does this mean: "The main town manifestation is called "Kri?evačko veliko spravi?će"." What is a manifestation and does the final phrase need translating? Second in the line: "figurative pearl, the Greek-catholic cathedral reconstructed in the Gothic revival style" What is the pearl (maybe the cathedral?) and what religion is Greek-catholic? Maybe Greek Orthodox? Rmhermen 15:43, Jul 6, 2004 (UTC)

PaX and debian

I talked with bluefoxicy in #wikipedia and he's much interested in PaX in combination with debian. I thought you might be of some help, so you can contact him if you like. Zocky 03:04, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for help

Thanks for your help on the two Srebrenica pages. It's nice to have a quality contributor from the ex-Yugoslavia to help clear up user Igor's, err, I mean, the current situation on ex-yugo area pages ;)

- Asim Led

PaX and Debian, ctd

Hey, I sent you an e-mail yesterday for PaX and Debian. Just want to verify that you got it.

--Bluefox Phoenix Lucid 04:15, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Aww, heh. My nickname on freenode is "bluefoxicy" . . . I'll be hanging out in #debian and #wikipedia if you wanna look for me. And of course, the obvious places ;) --Bluefox Phoenix Lucid 16:45, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

da:Billede:Cetina-omis-croatia.jpg

This picture is from [[3]]. All that they ask is that one cite them by linking to the website when their pictures are used. Their photos are completely available for non-commercial use. What exactly that is defined as, I'm not sure. However, they have a load of pictures of Croatia from that area on the site, just look under Europe:Croatia.

Hope that helps,

Peregrine981 21:43, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

WikiProject Unrecognized Countries

Hi, Shallot. I noticed you had made contributions to Puntland. If you're interested in Puntland and similar places, why don't you drop by the WikiProject Unrecognized countries and help add some more depth to Wikipedia's coverage of these?

Be sure to visit the Project talk page, and if you are interested, you can become a member. Ambivalenthysteria 12:16, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Anglicization

Please kindly remember that this is the English Wikipedia. Names should be in form which is easiest to find, most familiar to English reader audience, and preferably fully in English. In addition, it is very recommendable to use consistently English name forms.

There are several other Wikipedias for other languages, and you are very welcome to use Serbocroat name forms in the Serbocroat-language Wikipedia(s). 213.243.157.114 15:47, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I've no idea why you're telling me this. --Shallot 15:48, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Discussions

Heh. Haven't caught up with you yet :)

Mayhaps you should send me e-mail? I have my preferences allowing e-mail to come through, if you don't mind an e-mail conversation. I'm still interested in discussing PaX and the viability of employing it and a few other things on Debian.

--John Moser 23:23, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

EDIT: Got your mail, mailed you back with subject "PaX on Debian" :)

--John Moser 18:22, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Template Thanks

Thank you for the template, I didn't know how to do that myself. And sorry about Vrbas lol... Since you're good at making my articles not look stpid, you should check out Ilidza and see if I messed up anything there too. Thanks again. Asim Led 00:46, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Administrator?

I've just noticed that you are not an admin, although you've been around for a while and accumulated a lot of edits. I think you have the right temperament and good judgment for this, so I wanted to ask if I may nominate you.

If you're willing to be nominated, please let me know. I might wait just a little before making the nomination, so that the current furor on Wikipedia:Requests for adminship over controversial users from the former Yugoslavia dies down. I think you would be approved overwhelmingly, but I want to avoid having you pick up opposition as a byproduct of those unwise nominations. --Michael Snow 18:58, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I certainly agree that levelheadedness shouldn't be restricted to admins - I'm more interested in restricting adminship to the levelheaded. Or failing that, at least increasing the pool of levelheaded admins. Anyway, since apparently you don't actually object, I do plan to nominate you in a week or two (naturally, I'll let you know when I do). The fact that you don't care much one way or the other just indicates to me that you have the right attitude about admin abilities.

It's also nice to hear from a non-admin who feels he can get any help he needs from the existing group. I don't use IRC myself, but if there's ever anything I can do to help you, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. --Michael Snow 20:17, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Shallot is quite acceptable to everyone I think. I don?t think most users even associate him with Ex-yu. He?s doing a whole bunch of other stuff. GeneralPatton 12:47, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

As promised, I wanted to let you know that I've now posted your nomination. Please reply over at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship to indicate whether you accept. Also, as you may know, people sometimes post general questions there for the nominees, so you may want to keep an eye out for that as well. --Michael Snow 17:07, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Minor edits

Hi! If you have something to communicate to me, please use my user page. --Vasile 17:21, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC) Hi! If you have something to communicate to me, please use my user page. Vasile, 22 Aug 2004 Then please stop making assumptions regarding my person, feelings etc. --Vasile 03:07, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Nice job on the Template:Era

On behalf of the (admittedly morbid) Wikipedia:WikiProject Geologic Timescale, I thank you for making Template:Mesozoic, Template:Paleozoic, Template:Precambrian and Template:Proterozoic, and 2 months late I might add... :P -- EmperorBMA|話す 20:24, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Minor Edits on Bosnia article

Sorry about that, and thanks for the clarification. I will keep that in mind from now on. I originally intended just to change the wording of a few sentences and I ended up getting rid of quite a few large questionable aspects of the article. And by the way, I just got rid of vandalism on your user page. It was done by Jwalker.. if wikipedia can ban proxys or ips or whatever you should see about kicking him out. Have you become an administrator yet? - Asim Led

You're a sysop

Congratulations! After receiving 100% support on RfA, you are now an administrator. You should read the relevant policies and other pages linked to from the administrators' reading list before carrying out tasks like deletion, protection, banning users, and editing protected pages such as the Main Page. Most of what you do is easily reversible by other sysops, apart from page history merges and image deletion, so please be especially careful with those. You might find the new administrators' how-to guide helpful.

This is the first time I've had the opportunity to promote an onion, no less a joyful one. Cheers! -- Cecropia | Talk 16:46, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

A little question

Congratulations on your sysophood! :)

I notice you've added quite a bit of history to NK Rijeka tonight. I've been creating quite a few stubs for football clubs so that we can put the results of the UEFA Cup and Champions League matches on Current sports events, as well as encouraging people like yourself to flesh them out -- it's also been quite educational to find out about where obscure clubs like WIT Georgia, Hafnarfjördur, and Total Network Solutions come from (well, OK, I knew about the last one because I wrote the article!). I've been getting the names from www.uefa.com, and one thing has been puzzling me -- in many cases Croatian teams are sometimes referred to as "NK" and sometimes as "HNK". What does the difference represent? Thanks! -- Arwel 00:06, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Avala's case at the Arbcom

Could you visit Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Avala/Evidence#Snowspinner.27s and tell what is the correct translation of several terms directed at Avala? Nikola 19:46, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Univerzitet

Cao!

Vidim da si napravio tekst University_of_Zagreb. Posto si uradio prevod na engleski onih najvaznjih reci da li bi mogao da uradis i University in Belgrade. U ovom linku imas sve sto ti treba - [4]. Sto se tice istorije univerziteta to jos nisam nasao. Tamo gde pise "O univerzitetu" imaju samo informacije o postdiplomskim studijama. :(

pozdrav i hvala [[User:Avala|Avala|★]] 21:44, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Translation

I really don?t see how you could agree with Nikola?s translation, it?s obviously erroneous and malign, twisting most of the words in most vicious of ways for use in his own agenda. GeneralPatton 23:17, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Well it?s Vulgar if you intentionally misinterpret it. Everything can be mistranslated and manipulated with in the process. I have a feeling that?s just what Nikola is doing and I really don?t see why you play along with him and his in this case and use his apparently deliberate distortions. You know I still give him the benefit of a doubt that he doesn?t know Croatian that good. GeneralPatton 23:51, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Puzzling

There are lit. categories on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Writers_by_genre (essayists, poets, novelists etc.). I tried to "enlist" Krleza, Ujevic, Ladan, Senoa, Gundulic,..-but edit option does not give the opportunity to add new names. What is to be done ? Mir Harven 08:50, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

OK, I got it. Although-I'm not sure whether it's better to have, say, Mazuranic or Gundulic in the category "poets" or "Croatian poets". You cant have both ways. Anyway- now I know, thnx. Mir Harven 10:45, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Croatian language

I've altered post-1918 period, and it needs wikifying and, maybe, "softening" of some expressions. Well-I guess you'd be glad to do the job (although, I'm sorry we dont have Serbian language ignoramus Tito any more). Mir Harven 14:16, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

1926 money scandal in Hungary and Alfred Windischgrätz

I checked my jumble of notes and I am prone to think that your removal was appropriate - I might have mispelled the name or mixed it with something else. My mistake. - Skysmith 19:14, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Slovene/Slovenian

Yes, I've been watching that talk page, but I believe you're doing very well in the discussion. In reality, there isn't very much that BT2 can give in argument against using Slovene, so the focus there has by now diverged substantially from the issue. Considering the lack of remaining arguments, and given that we cannot come to an agreement, there appears to be little chance of reaching consensus in the future. I can't say that I know how to proceed: endless reverts won't help, and I am reluctant to simply revert whilst the topic is still being discussed. But then again, if no more discussion takes place and no one decides to revert, BT2 automatically wins. Ought we to hold a poll – even if BT2's arguments scarcely hold water?

Duplicate small tag in your sig

Hi. I noticed that you have a duplicate <small> in your signature. I noticed it when you posted to my talk page. RedWolf 04:32, Sep 6, 2004 (UTC)

~~I just noticed this too. Is it intentional?~~ Never mind. I read the answer in RedWolf's talk pages. --TheParanoidOne 20:06, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Re:Districts

havala za sugestiju. sada cu da ubacim informaciju o okruznim centrima mada mislim da nemamo tekstove o svim gradovima ali nisam siguran.

[[User:Avala|Avala|★]] 13:55, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)

okruzi

zavrsio sam ubacivanje informacija u tekstove o gradovima.

da li znas nekoga ko bi nacrtao mapu za okruge? Morwen je otisla sa wikipedie a i nije bila zainteresovana. Danima sam je molio samo da pogleda. Imam fantrasticnu pocetnu mapu na [5] koja pokazuje i opstine i okruge veoma lepo ali ne znam ko bi to mogao da uradi posto ja nisam vican u crtanju.

[[User:Avala|Avala|★]] 14:32, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)

TWG

Yes, the city articles could be marked as geo-stubs though I don't see why is that important. If you don't think that references to the TWG are needed, be free to remove them. But I think that the backlink to the List of cities in SCG should stay, at least as long as the articles are stubs. In general, I wish that more articles should have such links, as I oftenly managed to find some information on Wikipedia only after finding an article in the field, and using What links here to find the list of all articles in the field... Nikola 13:54, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Baba Roga

I got a quesion for you. Do you know if South Slavic Baba Roga is the same thing as East Slavic Baba Yaga? I can't find any relevant English pages on Baba Roga. There are a few pages but in Croatian only. --Gene s 10:50, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Self-ads

I see baby "Croatian writers" galore- and this is nothing but rather unethical promo campaign (whoever started it). I guess this "stubakers" should be removed into some harmless niche-say, new wave of Cro. sci-fi, but NOT Croatian writers category they dont belong to. Mir Harven 23:04, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

OK, napravi novu cat. To je najbolje, da ih se ne briše. Mir Harven 12:43, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Can you read my Greek?

In order to type Greek text, I don't use HTML entities such as ε etc. I just use my keyboard switch (XFree86-4.3 on SuSE 9.0, and my browser is the latest Firefox).I'd like to verify that what appears to me as Greek script, appears so to the rest of the world. So please check my page on Griko language and tell me if it is so. Thanks, -- Etz Haim 23:33, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Joseph the Betrothed

Are you sure on moving Joseph the Betrothed to Saint Joseph? Doesn't that go against the MoS? -- Jmabel 12:48, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC) Here's the citation: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(biographies)&action=edit&section=3 -- Jmabel 12:53, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

Name day

Hi Joy,

What's up? Surely there are lots of people out there who don't know what a name day is--don't they deserve a bit of help? Opus33 15:36, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. Opus33 01:18, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Map in Slavic languages

I got your comments about the map I posted in the Slavic languages article. I appreciate the comments and will try to adapt it to reflect the new facts that people expressed in the discussion page. However, you should understand that Wikipedia will always be a work in progress, and people contribute to it with the best knowledge they have. I do think that the map is now better than the one before, even if it still has some work to be done. I created the map from scratch (lot of work, If I may say) and I'm now working on a better version. Your advices will be put to good use, but please, don't be rude with your D'oh! remarks. I'm no Homer and I do my best to improve the articles. If your have any other suggestions, feel free to use my discussion page, the link is in my signature. Robin des Bois ♘ ➳ ✉ 04:51, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I finally posted the new version of the map. I hope it fits better with reality and that everybody agrees it an improvement... Robin des Bois ♘ ➳ ✉ 01:24, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

A.B.Šimić etc.

Why this fuss about the "cleanup" ogre ? What the hell is this anyway ? This is a very good article. Mir Harven 14:28, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Aha, OK. Usput-2/3 ove str. je za arhiviranje, velika je. Mir Harven 20:04, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Arrrgh...

You messed up the shtokavian page. The speakers of old-shtok. are enumerated now. There is no sense whatsoever to speak of,say, Slavonian subdialect in 14th cent. You have scattered info randomly so that narrative thread is lost. Put the whole thing back, I'll format it later (also, it needs additional info). Mir Harven 20:12, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ima tu posla, ovo je kilavo. As I said: you broke the narrative thread. Later.....Mir Harven 23:50, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

RSK.PNG

Thanks for the info, renamed, translated and uploaded your version of RSK.png to the RSK article (is now Krajina.png in german wikipedia to avoid conflicts and dead links). Good work, thanks again. Greetings from Houston, TX (temporarily...), --Spacecaptain 23:10, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Accent marks in article names

Re: your recent edit at Romania in the Middle Ages: Why would you not want the accent in the link? If the accent is correct, that's where the article should be; acute and grave accents are no problem in article names. Typically, we also add a redirect without accents for those who don't have an easy means to type the accents. -- Jmabel 19:20, Sep 24, 2004 (UTC)

Ustase

That seems fair enough to me. Usually, we'd just block him for 24 hours, but considering that it doesn't appear to be taking anyone else out and that he only tends to edit about once a day, that seems to be a decent idea. In my experience, unless you block someone you're in a heated dispute with, you're pretty unlikely to run into trouble. Ambi 13:17, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

A question

Hi, Joy. Do you have any idea what "Obluci" (or maybe "Obluči") might mean in Slavic ? There's a medieval name of Isaccea (a small Romanian town) "Oblučitza". Searching the web for "obluci" shown some Croatian pages, but I couldn't find it in the dictionary. Thank you, Bogdan | Talk 15:32, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Lusitania

Could you create an image like for Lusitania please? Nicholas

HRW report

How are you doing? Re: the 1994 HRW mentioned on Macedonia (Greece), I'd like to ask you to provide a link back to the original report. There's absolutely no rush, so take your time. Etz Haim 19:19, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The abstract you are talking about is from HRW's publication, which I may buy sometime, but for now I'd stick with the 1994 report. Unfortunately their online archive does not include reports published earlier than 1997, and I'd like to confirm that they have made an estimate of the population of Macedonian Slavs in Greece. It may tike some time, but eventually it will be done. Etz Haim 19:51, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Srebrenica Massacre

Nikola keeps inserting that NPOV notice that I find really insulting, will you please keep a watch on it. GeneralPatton 09:30, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Christian

Hi Joy - I've replied at User talk:Sannse -- sannse (talk) 14:37, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

politicians of serbia

cao,

lista Category:Politicians_of_Serbia sadrzi samo dva imena.

molim te da dodas i sledeca imena

Boris Tadic

Vojislav Kostunica

Miroljub Labus; Dejan Mihajlov; Velimir Ilic; Mladjan Dinkic; Zoran Stojkovic; Dragan Jocic; Vuk Draskovic; Predrag Bubalo; Slobodan Lalovic; Ivana Dulic-Markovic; Radomir Naumov; Milan Parivodic; Bojan Dimitrijevic; Slobodan Vuksanovic; Zoran Loncar; Dragan Kojadinovic; Aleksandar Popovic; Tomica Milosavljevic; Milan Radulovic; Vojislav Vukcevic; Zoran Sami; Predrag Markovic; Igor Jovicic;

Tomislav Nikolic; Bogoljub Karic; Ivica Dacic; Vladan Batic; Branislav Ivkovic; Borislav Pelevic; Marjan Risticevic;

nisam siguran da li bi trebalo dodati i milosevica i seselja.

pozdrav

DAI

Možeš na http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Administrando_Imperio , pa copyedit. I, arhiviraj veći dio ovoga, ima 57 k. Mir Harven 12:11, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Talk:Bombing of Dresden in World War II

If you are interested please vote in the straw poll

Webster's Merger?

Salutations, Joy!
Today I decided to work on extensive revisions to Webster's Dictionary and in poking around found a stub at Webster's New International Dictionary, Second Edition and a longer article at Webster's Third New International Dictionary. It seems to me it would be best to consolidate the second and third material at Webster's Dictionary, because it is the familiar name and it would put the history of the work, which has appeared under several names in one spot; then put in redirects under the other names. I've integrated the material at the present "Third" article with my own contributions at Webster's Dictionary. Since you've worked on this, I wonder if you have any thoughts. PedanticallySpeaking 16:40, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)

"Catholis Serbs" and votes for deletion

Just to inform you- I've proposed this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion#Catholic_Serbs . If you have any different opinion, speak. If not now-when ? Mir Harven 10:52, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Álmos I/II

Hi, Juro and I had some discussion at this page [6] about "Álmos II". I think the name Álmos II is not really correct since in Hungary he is only known as Prince Álmos. I understand he was King of Croatia but since the first Álmos wasn't King of Croatia this king has to be either Álmos I of Croatia or simply Prince Álmos of Hungary... what do you think? Alensha 17:58, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sarajevo article

I thought since you've worked on it before and have done a lot of work on articles about the region, it might interest you that I've proposed the Sarajevo article on the Wikipedia:Featured article candidates page. If you wish you can express your support for it. Asim Led 00:45, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

RE: A.V. spelling

I think it's Azem Vllasi. Dori | Talk 13:05, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)

Deleting links to List of political parties in Croatia

Some people like categoeries, some like lists. I didn't like the removal of the links to the list of political parties in the Croatian political parties and restored them at the liberal parties. I hope you will restore them at the other pages. --Gangulf 20:52, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I have read your reaction and it would be better if the pages wouldn't be stubs. But I do not agree with removing the link to the list. There are users who don't (want to) use categories. I ask you to restore the links. --Gangulf 21:56, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I do not dislike categories at all, since I created a lot of them, but for me using categories doesn't exclude the usage of lists. Lists have the advantage that you can rank e.g. parties in present and past, major and minor, parliamentary and non-parliamentary etc. So they have also an advantage. I learned to use them both. It helps people to find info and that is what an encyclopedia is about. --Gangulf 22:22, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

But then you still ignore the fact that not everybody uses categories. As I said I like categories, but not everybody does. It is not a wikipedia rule not to have bot (links to category and links to list). You force users to use categories and I want to give them freedom. That is the difference. --Gangulf 09:08, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC).

As long as it is no official Wikipedia policy, I do not want to force users to use Wikipedia in the way you prefer. --Gangulf 12:19, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

So where is the rule that if you categorize a page, you cannot link to a list in which the page is listed? --Gangulf 17:32, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

OK, lets discuss it elsewhere. --Gangulf 18:31, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

You've just been called "a nazi"

[7] GeneralPatton 02:05, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

History of Italy

Thanks for your efforts to preserve the accuracy and integrity of this article against the unacceptable destructive behaviour of VeryVerily. Hvala Vam mnogo! Shorne 14:48, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Image tagging

Question for you at Image talk:Tribadism-2.jpg. – Quadell ^{(talk) (help)}[[]] 14:22, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

Neanderthal (animal)

Per Deletion policy#Lag times, redirects need to stay on WP:RfD for at least a week before they are deleted, unless they are one of the four kinds of redirect candidates for speedy deletion (non-existent pages, user pages, move targets, or recent uncommon typos). I don't think there's any problem with you deleting Neanderthal (animal) quickly, but I don't think that fell in any of the 4 categories. Noel (talk) 00:22, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

It was really our fault, because the time limit wasn't clearly noted on the header of this page. I have since fixed this.

As to the delete itself, like I said, no problem - you did the right thing (in my opinion). Thanks! Noel (talk) 14:02, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Dzordz Bus

posto je clanak George W. Bush zatvoren za izmene molim te da dodas sr:Џорџ В. Буш

btw pogledaj tekst. mozes da ga iskoristis za hrvatski wiki

hvala [[User:Avala|Avala|★]] 18:01, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

FYI: Temp injunction in Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Gzornenplatz, Kevin Baas, Shorne, VeryVerily

1) Gzornenplatz and VeryVerily are banned from editing any article having to do with German or Polish subjects whilst Arbitration is on-going. Sysops may use their discretion in determining what falls into these areas, and are hereby authorised to enact 24 hour blocks for violations of this.

2) Gzornenplatz, Kevin Baas, Shorne, and VeryVerily are banned from reverting any article more than twice in one 24 hour period whilst Arbitration is on-going. Sysops are hereby authorised to enact 24 blocks for violations of this.

3) Shorne and VeryVerily are banned from editing any article having to do with the Cold War or communism whilst Arbitration is on-going. Sysops may use their discretion in determining what falls into these areas, and are hereby authorized to enact 24 hour blocks for violations of this.

--mav 21:16, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Arbitration matter of Avala is closed

1) The above findings of fact show that Avala has often worked against consensus and majority opinion. We therefore rule that Avala must follow the majority opinion of the users involved concerning any controversial edits that Avala makes. One specific consequence is that violations of the three revert rule are not permitted. This probation period will last for one month.

2) For a period of 3 months, should a serious dispute arise between Avala and other users with respect to editing of an article Avala is required to cite substantial authority supporting the position he is taking and either enter the dispute resolution process regarding the matter or drop the matter. A serious dispute is defined as one in which any party to the dispute has reverted the other 3 times or more. After Avala makes his third revert he shall cease editing the article with respect to the disputed matter until completion of the dispute resolution process. Resolution of the dispute in his favor shall require verification that the authority cited adequately supports the information he advocates including in the article. With respect to matters of taste such as size of templates he is required to defer to majority opinion.

3) Given the fact that Avala is now editing at a low rate, we reserve the right to revisit the conduct issue of this user once/if Avala starts to edit at an increased rate again and other users complain about Avala's conduct. This probation would last one year.

For principles, findings of fact, and enforcement see Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Avala#Final decision. --mav 21:48, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Economy of Europe

I've reverted your edit. The reason Serbia and Montenegro are listed seperatly on the table is that they have different currencies as their legal tender, therefore a table showing a nation's currency wouldn't be correct if they were listed as one. Grunners 14:30, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Revert

Why did you revert my edit to 'internet'? I believe that it is true. Please discuss. Thanks, Trollminator 18:55, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing

Hi, I've started the Free the Rambot Articles Project which has the goals of getting users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to...

...all U.S. state, county, and city articles...
...all articles...

using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) version 1.0 and 2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to the GFDL (which every contribution made to Wikipedia is licensed under), but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles (See the Multi-licensing Guide for more information). Since you are among the top 1000 most active Wikipedians, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles.

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the {{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}} template (or {{MultiLicensePD}} for public domain) into their user page, but there are other templates for other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

Option 1

I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

OR

Option 2

I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace {{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}} with {{MultiLicensePD}}. If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know at my talk page what you think. -- Ram-Man 20:19, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)

Skoda category

Any reason why you changed the alphabetization to a "*"? It seemed reasonable to alphabetize it with the letter it actually starts with. I don't care about the entity changes, I was just playing around with that. As far as I'm concerned, it's actually better to use the real codepoint as opposed to an HTML entity anyway. Rlobkovsky 15:26, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Just as a comment, the "Scaron" entity does actually exist, see [Character entity references in HTML 4], section 24.4.1 -- although it probably didn't exist before HTML 4. Also, that's an interesting point about the category -- I've never seen that before, but I haven't explored much here yet (I mainly hang out in the automotive section of Wikipedia). Rlobkovsky 15:44, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Croatian flag

Done. Thanks for the message. --Zuirdj 03:11, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Red/white/blue flags

Thanks for bringing that to my attention! I'll go past all the flag articles to sort it out, but if you have some specific information right off the bat about what order the flags had, I'd be grateful. Where did the red/white/blue colors originate, for example? JRM 08:23, 2004 Nov 29 (UTC)

Thanks for the detailed reply. I will mull all this over and update the page when I have the time. (You are free to make modifications as well, of course; my user pages are all open for editing by anyone.) JRM 12:32, 2004 Nov 29 (UTC)

Thanks

Hey. Just wanted to thank you for your kind welcome note. I've run across your contributions and they're always well-written and balanced which is a real accomplishment when it comes to the difficult issues surrounding the history/issues of former Yugoslavia. --tracer_bullet 01:45, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)

RFC pages on VfD

Should RFC pages be placed on VfD to be deleted? I'm considering removing Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Slrubenstein, Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Jwrosenzweig and Wikipedia:Requests for comment/John Kenney from WP:VFD. Each of them was listed by CheeseDreams. Your comments on whether I should do this would be appreciated. - Ta bu shi da yu 03:51, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Slavic etymologies

Could you check the Slavic etymologies of the Etymological list of counties of Romania ? Thanks. Bogdan | Talk 10:16, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

links to Iranian

Thanks for the note. Since Iranian is a redirect page to Iran, bypassing them makes no effect on Iranians. make sure that pages that directly link to Iranians will be kept intact.

Ashgabat???

Hi. I don't know how often you visit the List of European cities with alternative names these days, but there has been a controversy on its talk page for the past ten days or so, and I was wondering if you would care to review it and possibly intervene. Thank you. Pasquale 18:17, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Image tag

Hi! Thanks for uploading the following image:

Image:Eastern-Europe-small.png

I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status?

You can use {{gfdl}} if you wish to release your own work under the GNU Free Documentation License, {{PD-self}} if you wish to release your own work to the public domain, {{fairuse}} if you claim fair use of someone else's work, and so on. Click here for a list of the various tags.

If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know at my talk page where you got the image from, and I'll tag it for you. (And if you know exactly what this means and are really tired of the constant reminders, please excuse me. They will stop once the tagging project is complete.) Thanks so much. Denni ☯ 22:58, 2004 Dec 18 (UTC)

P.S. You can help tag other images at Wikipedia:Untagged_Images. Thanks again.

Thanks for uploading

I notice these images currently don't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use {{gfdl}} if you release it under the GFDL, or {{fairuse}} if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much, Donar Reiskoffer 12:46, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Maps

Yes. Morwen - Talk 16:16, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Molise Slavic

Nevjerovatno!Samo sat vremena nakon stvaranja mog članka on je editiran.Da li si ga ti mislio napraviti prije?Kako si ga baš danas našao? Inače i ja bih promjenio svoj username,kako to mogu da uradim?

Python code to generate the figure!!!

Please take a look at Image_talk:EUpopGNPmap.png#Python_code_to_generate_the_figure.21.21.21. – Kaihsu 15:02, 2004 Dec 26 (UTC)

195.146.134.53's edits to lead sections

There's an old proverb about training mules. First you've got to hit him in the face with a two-by-four. You've tried being nice, and got no response. Time to break out the lumber.

Given the guy's speed, it almost looks like a bot anyway. -- Cyrius|✎ 21:53, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I've fixed about half a dozen of these in articles on my watchlist. I would say a block is fine if the person is ignoring more modest interventions. -- Jmabel | Talk 07:23, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)

United States dollar

Just figured that I'd reiterate my satisfaction with what you restored to United States dollar after my revert, in case you didn't happen by that page again soon. I agree that what you put back should be there, that's why I made the comment about others being welcome to re-add anything good from what I deleted. I knew there was stuff in there worth keeping, I just didn't want to be the one to try and find it all. Thanks for the help. -FunnyMan 23:53, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)

Software?

U kojem programu mogu gledati downlodanu wikipediu?[user:Jugoslaven]

I-E što je to točno?Koji mi software treba?

II-Hoće li biti lokalnih wikipedia okupljanja?Da li ih je već bilo?

III-Ona izmjena u Croatian language je bila potrebna da bi se istaklo da Hrvatski nije zaseban jezik već jedna od standardnih varijanti Srpskohrvatskog.Zato sam i napisao Croatian sa masnim slovima (Serbo-Croatian).

Hvala!

Ja sam iz isto iz Zagreba, znam da si ti iz Vinkovaca i studiraš na FER-u.Za koliko ljudi iz Zagreba i Hrvatske znaš da rade za englesku wikipediu?Da li bi okupljanje imalo smisla. Vidim da si napravio promjenu na Janjevci.Dobro si ga popravio.

Oprosti što te davim,ali kolki je to otprilike broj? Dal mi možeš dati neke usernames? Kakva je spolna struktura?

Croatian language

Ovo može ići do u nedogled! ^{'''''''wtf is this b.s.?'''''''}

Counties, towns and municipalities of Croatia

Vidim da si promjenio linkove na Ličko-Senjske županije.Mislim početi svoj projekt na wikipedii Gradovi(kao teritorijalne jedinice) i općine u Hrvatskoj/Towns and Municipalities of Croatia.User:Jugoslaven

Ono županima nisam ja pisao.Šta si pročitao da sam optužen za kršenje autorskih prava? Stvar je na popisu općina želim da link bude npr. Municipality of Lovinac a ne Municipality of Lovinac. Kako da stavim svoj projekt na wikiproject?Što je to wikislow?User:Jugoslaven

To si za copy-paste si vidio na Ličko-Senjska? Vidim da druge zemlje imaju municipality project. User:Jugoslaven

Što se tiče kršenja autorskih prava, to je nevezano... iako sam vidio tu da si nešto pasteao a da nisi provjerio licencu... -di si to vidio u Ličko-Senjska?user:Jugoslaven

Hej, nije mi jasno što je sporno!!Townshipse prevodi kao područje administrativno vezano za neki grad.Kad piše town ne daje se dojam da je to teriotalno-administrativna jedinica.Drugo;i druge države imaju članke o svojim municalities (Italija,Švicarska,Nizozemska,Pensilvanija,...) ne vidim razlog zašto Hrvatska ne bi imala.

An apology

...for my careless edits on Bleiburg massacre and Operation Keelhaul. I was in a hurry and forgot to rephrase and put back in some of the things I cut out while adding new information. -- Mihnea Tudoreanu 00:24, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Russian (spelling) page

Please see Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Russian_.28usage.29_page Jayjg | (Talk) 21:00, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Felix Weingartner

Thanks for your help! That was an elegant solution (says this ex-mathematician :) ). Schissel : bowl listen 21:38, Jan 18, 2005 (UTC)

Joseph

>merged the two entries referring to the same person, at least)<

Thank You GT

Joy, you might want to clean up this language:

?* Joseph, son of Jacob, is a character in the Book of Genesis in the Hebrew Bible. He was a Hebrew who wore a coat of many colours and interpreted dreams, as well as a commodities trader.?

colours and interpreted dreams, as well as

maybe

colours, interpreted dreams, as well as

---o0---

also if you prefer Joseph could be called a grain trader, with a link to commodities, or grain speculator, with a link to Speculator.

In any case it is understated. Joseph was probably the greatest & shrewdest person to ever trade commodities. He had people coming in asking to become his slave, because they knew there families would be fed if they surrendered to him. GT

Aloha, Look we trade Commodities. Joseph was the greatest commodity trader of all time. I could not care less if he wore a Technicolor cloak. We will be making a reference to him in futures history. There needs to be some distinction as to who he is and what he did that was significant. If it was not for Joseph?s commodity trading there would probably be no land surveying, or property tax. So how are we going to know what Joseph it is if you continue to hide him in a hole in the desert.

--o0o---

He appeared before Pharaoh and told him in the name of God that the dreams forecasted seven years of plentiful crops followed by seven years of famine. He advised Pharaoh to make a wise man commissioner over the land with overseers to gather and store food from the seven years of abundance to save for the years of scarcity.

Joseph traveled throughout Egypt, gathering and storing enormous amounts of grain from each city.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Joseph.html

---o0o---

According to Joseph's interpretation, there were to be seven years of plenty in Egypt, followed by seven years of famine. Joseph was able to advise the Pharaoh on how to prepare for the famine and as a result gained the favour of the Pharaoh who promoted him to Prime Minister.

During the famine Joseph had to make key decisions. His acquisition of grain provisions enabled Egypt to withstand and survive the famine.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/features/biblemysteries/joseph.shtml

---o0o---

?Just as Joseph had predicted seven years of abundant harvest were followed by seven years without any rain, and there was great famine throughout all of the land of Egypt and in all of the countries nearby. The land where Israel and Joseph's eleven brothers lived also had no rain and great famine until there was nothing left to eat.

Joseph sold grain to the people of Egypt until they had no more money to buy grain. Then the people sold through Joseph to Pharoah all of their lands so that they could have grain to eat. Then the people sold themselves and their children as slaves to Pharoah so that they could eat. Finally Pharoah owned all of the money, land and people in Egypt except for the money and lands of the Egyptian priests who always received free food from Pharoah according to their previous agreement. ?

http://www.virtualchurch.org/joseph.htm

---o0o---

Joseph was ruler and governor of all the land.

http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/Jsphsbirthright.html

---o0o---

He predicted 7 years of good harvest followed by 7 years of famine. Joseph recommended that Egypt make great stores of food to prepare for the famine.

http://www.ebibleteacher.com/batlasweb/sld016.htm

---o0o---

What part of these is not predicting and betting on the future value of commodities?

? Joseph, son of Jacob, biblical commodities Trader who cornered the grain market. Under Joseph?s direction his Pharaoh gained control of all the money, land and people in Egypt except for the priests. GT

Croatian names

I knew I was probably doing something wrong there. I think I didn't take into account that it would be easy to change in the future. I'm slightly tentative in removing them in case the couple I didn't add myself get reverted, however, I will revert them very soon - probably as soon as I find my next instance, which I'm bound to do sometime this morning.

Thanks for the note - I didn't realize there was some kind of convention in terms of leaving them alone. Guess I shoulda checked before running over to do them.. Sorry. Bobo192 04:54, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Cool. I was wrestling with myself over the necessity of putting the notice there when it was obvious by the bold script that it was the case.

I'll get to removing them soon - I promise. All the best. Bobo192 18:23, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Redirects

I don't recall any consensus on that unilateral change. Can you direct me to it, please? Jayjg | (Talk) 18:47, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

re: wrongtitle

I strongly disagree with your views that only for Croatian names you can't use the wrongtitle template. This is a ridiculous exception and I will not tolerate it. And given the fact that you *are* Croatian this can be viewed as POV from your side. It seems that you don't want to "litter" the Croatian bio articles you so dearly love with an "annoying" message at the top that only you dislike. It will be fairly simple to remove this template once en: goes utf-8. Please don't remove them because I will continue to add them and if you continue to remove them I will take it to RfC, RfA, Jimbo, whatever, whoever is needed for you to comprehend that Croatian people are not a exception to the rule and that this Wiki is for English speaking people, not Croatian speaking people. —Cantus…☎ 19:31, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)

People *do* care, that's why they come here, to learn. The fact that the media doesn't use diacritics is irrelevant. This is an encyclopedia, not a newspaper. Using diacritics in names is standard among serious encyclopedias. See [8] [9] [10]. Keep in mind we're talking about the actual title of the article, not the URL. That the URL happens to be the title of the article is a coincidence, which may possibly be addressed in future versions of Wikipedia, or not. The URL is irrelevant, but the title that does appear in huge letters at the top of the article *does* matter a lot, and having it written incorrectly lowers the quality of the encyclopedia, so a mention of that limitation is appropriate. —Cantus…☎ 22:32, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)

To be quite honest, I don't like the appearance of wrongtitle templates myself. But the thing is, they are supposed to be there, simply because the title is incorrect. Refusing to insert them, or arguing against their insertion is one thing, but undoing other people's useful work is another. (OK, potentially useful, but still.) GregorB 20:14, Feb 2, 2005 (UTC)

Now, in C++ programmer speak that I'm sure you'll find more illustrative... :) Is it better to write (int)blah or reinterpret_cast<int>(blah)? reinterpret_cast is, you might say, "excessive verbiage"; it is somewhat bothersome to write, and one cannot say it's really "useful", as your program will work just the same. But it is a sound practice, and although I may or may not choose to write code this way, I certainly wouldn't "correct" it in someone else's code. GregorB 10:58, Feb 3, 2005 (UTC)

<caron>

Hi Joy - you wrote: Why are you (or your browser) replacing valid diacriticized characters with x<caron>? Please don't do that, it breaks them.

I'm not doing it - my browser is doing it automatically, and there's nothing I can do about it (I wish there was!). The reason is that characters with carons on top are unsafe characters which stuff up with several different browsers. They shouldn't really be used for that reason (you'll probably find lots of people whose edits do the same - it's simply that I've been doing a lot of work on Eastern European geography lately so mine are more noticeable). The same problem came up recently with the Icelandic letters thorn and eth being replaced in exactly the same way. Whatever the standard HTML write-up is (x&number;) should be used instead. Grutness|^hello?

09:27, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I know that they're vague, but at least they show up. When your commit subcategorizes a geo-stub and garbles 25 diacriticized characters due to a largely minor misfeature, it does more harm than good. IE and Firefox don't try to change s<caron> and z<caron> (the letters in question, which are both Latin1 and Latin2) every time they see them, please don't have your browser do it.

I use IE with Latin1, so you're wrong there. As for "please don't have your browser do it", as I said, it does it automatically when it hits an unsafe character and cannot be stopped. The problem only arises when people use unsafe characters, which should not be used. If the articles were correctly written, the problem would not have occurred, and would not occur again. Blaming me for a problem caused by an incorrectly formatted article doesn't get at the root of the problem. What would you rather I did, simply stop editing for fear of having someone else's bad typing show up after my work? Perhaps you'd prefer it if the articles remain lost among the myriad other stubs, rather than being easily found. Use html rather than unsafe characters. Grutness|^hello?

09:44, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I know that in an ideal world we'd never have this problem, but we do, and I'm suggesting that you handle it more gracefully, rather than ignoring it just because it's not completely your fault. I'm currently going through those edits and fixing them — those other people's browsers caused the problem, but I'm not cleaning up after them, I'm cleaning up after your browser.

(a) Until you brought the subject up, I didn't know that anything had gone wrong with the edits in question. All I was doing was changing stub messages, and didn't notice any changes to the articles themselves.

(b) I'd love to be able to fix it myself, but because of other people's sloppy work, I'm unable to do so - if I open up any of those files, they will go back to having <caron> written on them.

(c) In the last week, I have edited some 1700 files. Which files need fixing? You've never mentioned any individual files, so even if I could fix them - which I can't, for the reasons given above - I wouldn't know which ones needed fixing. Presumably they are some of the Hungarian, Romanian, Czech, Slovak, Slovene, Croatian, Russian, Serbian, Bosnian, or Polish geo- or bio-stubs I've been looking at, but which ones?

(d) I am simply pointing out that when the files are fixed, they should be fixed properly, and not with the kludged unsafe characters.

(e) I was responding gracefully until your attack on my work. You asked me not to do something, I replied that it was my browser's fault and I wished there was something I could do about it. If my later replies have seemed ungraceful, I apologise, but your sentence When your commit subcategorizes a geo-stub and garbles 25 diacriticized characters due to a largely minor misfeature, it does more harm than good. was ungraceful to start with. What is it you claim I have committed? Grutness|^hello?

11:21, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Well, for example these[...] I can see how these few breakages may seem insignificant compared to the other two thousand, but it's not like you couldn't have used a bot that has been proven to work and avoid this kind of collateral damage... that would be a graceful way to handle this IE bug, that's what I meant (being graceful in replies is nice, but it can't replace doing the right thing).

The breakages don't seem insignificant to me - I'm sorry they happened. What I'm saying is that since I don't know which pages they were on, I'd need to check a LOT of files to find where they were, and even then I wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

Since I've no idea how to make bots, all I can do is edit by hand. And if my browser breaks these pages, it would probably have done the same with a bot. Personally, I would have thought that personally going back and fixing things would be much more graceful than getting an automated routine to do it for you.

BTW, on another topic entirely, may I make a suggestion (hope you don't mind...) - it'd be easier to reply to you if you worked your signature so that clicking on "Joy" took you to your user page, and clicking on "Shallot" took you to your talk page. Just a thought :) Grutness|^hello?

22:19, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I think there should be a page somewhere where every Wikipedian can request help from the developers in making a bot...

There is...Wikipedia:Bot requests. I've asked for bots there a couple of times in the past, and never had a response from anyone, though. Grutness|^hello?

10:25, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Croat, Slovenian names

Hi Joy, could you help me out with the correct 'č', 'ć', etc for Croatia and Slovenia at Football World Cup 2002 (squads) --Dryazan 16:18, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Korbava, Kravaba, Krbava, so many names for one place!

Ugh, I knew these spelling variants were going to trip me up somewhere. did the spelling depend on who ran the government at the time, or is it a language thing? It seems that Kravaba is the same variant that was chosen for the previous maps too, and 2 older maps I read had it that way too... but looking at modern refernces I see that nobody spells it that way any more!

Anyway, the Photoshop file is http://homepage.mac.com/imeowbot/wp/hungary.zip, all the text layers are intact, have fun! iMeowbot~Mw 23:08, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Pal(a)eolithic

Hello Joy. I see you have moved Upper and Lower and Middle Palaeolithic. Should such moves not be based on consensus? I spelt them that way when creating them to remain in keeping with the ae construction used in Archaeology and also Epipalaeolithic. I admit I never did get around to requesting that Paleolithic be moved for consistency though. Please would you consider moving them back or starting a request for feedback on the general idea? Please note that Archaeology topics also have their own stub template: {{archaeology-stub}}. Regards adamsan 00:28, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I cannot perform moves for these articles, so the easiest option to finish the job would be if you could consider moving Epipalaeolithic to Epipaleolithic. This would put the full set in US English which isn't my choice but is at least consistent. Best wishes adamsan 21:48, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

tagging articles

Please put templates like {{expansion}} that only are useful to editors, on talk pages (the only exception I can think of would be the different stub templates). This is to Avoid self references as much as possible and make our content more useful to third party users. Thank you. :) --mav 08:48, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

tagging articles

Please put semi-permanent templates like {{expansion}} that only are useful to editors, on talk pages (the only major exception I can think of would be the different stub templates). This is to Avoid self references as much as possible and make our content more useful to third party users. Thank you. :) --mav 09:03, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Please ignore mav's request. He/she has been making this request to many users but it is counter to policy as stated on the very page that she refers people to, which is as follows:

However, there are exceptions to this. In particular, an article which is still in its initial development or under dispute often will include tags such as "stub", "npov", and "expansion" to help editors further develop the article, and the text in these templates include self-references. Try, however, to limit such self-references, even in templates.

Philip 10:52, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Stub sorting guidelines

I sincerely believe that we really need to lay down the law in stub sorting, and really provide a guideline. I believe that we should all attempt to reach a general consensus by April 2, 2005 in a set of rules that we can follow. Once we have built a set of guidelines, we can formally create a policy out of those guidelines. We need to define what a specialized topic stub is, how many articles it should cover, when is it appropriate to create it, what defines its need for its creation, what defines its need for deletion, what criteria it should follow, what are the general steps should one take when sorting a stub, whether or not to start using subst: for all templates, whether or not use subst: for all templates created by the meta-templates, and any other matters that may come up in consideration. I thank jag123 for initially creating the subpage for the project at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Stub sorting/Guidelines. Even though they have been discussed, I feel that we really need to confirm everything. For that, we should discuss each issue with its own sections, and raise a list of issues that we need to nail down before really continuing on. The English Wikipedia is nearly at 500k articles. Either the MediaWiki software needs to handle stubs such that they can be found with a simple union of categories, or the sorting is done manually by Wikipedians. Personally, I think the latter is less taxing on the server load, especially when we use subst:, which I think would help the Wikipedia out, performance wise. Please make your comments at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Stub sorting/Guidelines. I apologize for making this somewhat of a spam notice, but since the project has more members, the project can finally decide on these important issues at hand. -- AllyUnion (talk) 23:24, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Ako ti je email...

... joy na debijanu, onda imas mail. Ako nije, pogresio sam adresu :) --Millosh 10:01, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

User:Jankaspar; aka User:81.64.45.175

Hi, I reverted a bunch of country pages where User:Jankaspar had added links to http://www.centreurope-us.org/"whatever", and I've noticed he's back as 81.64.45.175. He's doing it again. Davenbelle 11:33, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)

I reverted his anon 'contribs' and asked him to stop, and he did! I'll drop you a note if I see it again. Davenbelle 12:59, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)

Zara

Sorry. --Waninoco 11:20, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Double admin

Congratulations! You're a double admin. While doing some rather monotonous cross-checking of lists, I discovered that you have admin rights on both accounts (Joy and Shallot). To the best of my knowledge, you are the only one to have this distinction. :-) Obviously, the trust was placed in you and not your user name, and it doesn't really matter, but it might be a good idea to request a beaurocrat to de-sysop Shallot. SWAdair | Talk 11:51, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

X --> X people

Many ethnic groups also are the names of languages (English people/English language), for example; doing what I'm doing helps unify all the ethnic group articles (see Category:Ethnic groups of Europe). It's the same principle with language articles: the standard is naming them "Fooish language" instead of "Fooish," even when "Fooish" is not itself ambiguous. Regards --Neutrality^talk 03:37, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)

P.S.: I'm a bit offended that you've started to revert without telling me. Neutrality^talk 03:40, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)

Well, you moved Albanian people, Magyar people, and Greek people before posting on my talk. And "I'm reverting this" is not a particularly friendly way of opening dialogue. But that's besides the point. I think, to use your example of Italians, that Italian people is a better title because it implies the Italian ethnic group (more so than "nationals or residents of Italy, which would be dealt with in demographics of Italy. "Italians," even though it is not a language, still is somewhat ambiguous. Italian people is the better name. --Neutrality^talk 03:52, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps we should bring it up at Wikipedia:Requested moves and get some outside input. --Neutrality^talk 03:58, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)

Caribbean ethnic groups

Hi. I was wondering why you were moving Caribbean ethnic groups to Category:Ethnic groups of Central America. While I have heard the Caribbean claimed as part of North America often enough, and (parts of it) as South America on occassion (e.g., Trinidad) I can't say I have really seen it classed with Central America. It strikes me as an odd pairing. Guettarda 23:25, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer. My inclination would either be to separate "Ethnic groups of the Caribbean", or merge them both (Caribbean & Central America) into North America (since technically Central America is a peninsula of North America). Of course, most Americans aren't even aware that Mexico is part of North America, not of Central America. Guettarda 23:56, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Town or city

Hi, the Category:Cities in Hungary, which you reverted to Győr, is listed for deletion at the moment, because there is only one city in Hungary, and it's Budapest. This is because a "city" in English means a settlement with at least approx. 500,000 inhabitants, and in Hungary even the biggest town, Debrecen, doesn't have so many inhabitants, only about 200,000 people.

--Adam78 12:34, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've emended {{verylarge}} so it applies more generaly; please see its entry on WP:TFD and vote again. Thanks! —msh210 14:46, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Leonid Tsypkin

I thank you for your contributions in the article on Leonid Tsypkin. Good save! - Mike Rosoft 17:10, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Wertq1's images

Greetings, Joy. You asked:

Why exactly did you mark some of those Jasenovac images as fair use [11] [12] [13] and one unused one for deletion [14]? I don't see any difference between their origin (let alone license information) so they should either all be kept or all removed. --Joy [shallot] 21:51, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The difference is that the fourth image isn't used in an article. Those images can only be used according to a fair use claim, and that claim would depend on what page it's used in. If a "fair use" image isn't actually used in an article, then it isn't a fair use. (If it were used, I wouldn't want to delete it.) Do you think it should be used? – Quadell ^{(talk) (sleuth)} 01:41, Mar 20, 2005 (UTC)

Yes you're right. I'll list them at Wikipedia:Image sleuthing, and we'll see what we find out. – Quadell ^{(talk) (sleuth)} 02:27, Mar 20, 2005 (UTC)

Need a block

Joy, when I checked Recent Changes, you were the first admin I saw on the list, so you are probably still online. I need a user blocked. I can block anons, but a software bug on my end is preventing me from submitting the block form when anything but numbers are entered. User:John fader is impersonating User:John Fader because of the latest entry on Vandalism in progress. Would you block the impersonator for me? Thank you. SWAdair | Talk 23:52, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

- Ah, nevermind. RickK was on the job. The impersonator has been blocked indefinitely. Thank you, anyway. SWAdair | Talk 23:56, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  - Heh... looks like we were both typing at the same time. I just got your message. Thank you. SWAdair | Talk 23:58, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Joy, I think that your "titlelacks diacritics" is a good idea. I do think there could be one improvement. In my humble opinion, the template should be set up to float on the top of the article. It looks really cluttered when you add it to an article that already has a picture near the top. One example of an article where the "titlelacksdiacritics" template would create a problem is Rüştü Reçber. I previewed the article with the new template and it looked horrible, at least on my computer.

Seconded. I could easily run these through with the list of Croatian players I previously wrongtitled? I owe it to you for being annoying previously having done it the wrong way. Bobo192 05:12, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your note, Joy. I'll run through a list of the footballers and utilize the template. Unfortunately, it may involve very little discretion whatsoever on my part. Merely because it would make it more difficult for others to search through the ones I've changed and disregard the ones I haven't. That's a job I don't think anyone would like to have, weeding through the ones I may or may not have changed. Bobo192 20:30, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Mount Lovcen

Hi! Could you elaborate just a little bit over the change you made to History of Montenegro, namely that of Mount Lovcen to Mount Lovćen? There's no other occurrence of this spelling on WP (aside from what was copied back to List of country name etymologies), nor in any of the first 100 Google hits.

Now, I know absolutely nothing of Montenegro (except for the fact that it is in Europe, and not in Africa as I had imagined...), but I came across Mount Lovcen as part of the Wiki Syntax cleanup effort to hunt down broken redirects. I've therefore written a (microscopic) stub, and I would like for it and the articles to agree on spelling.

--Fbriere 07:25, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I stand corrected: most articles on WP do use the alternate spelling. Why I can't find it outside WP, though, remains a mystery. --Fbriere 07:33, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Macedon page

The Talk page of Macedon shows that you are interested in the article. Lately I've been keeping a watch on the article because Greek nationalists (and sometimes Macedonian Slavs) keep vandalizing it on a regular basis. Just thought you might want to check on it every now & then as well. Decius 05:57, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Also, just for fun, see Origin of Albanians and Talk:Origin of Albanians where User:Albanau stuns us with his brilliance and honesty, and makes a great case for the Illyrian-Albanian idea, and I'm sure he will win over the reading public with his behaviour. Decius 06:58, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Joy in Heaven

Oh, the joy in heaven when one sinner repenteth...!
(Template:Titlelacksdiacritics)
The nitpickers of the world salute thee... :) -- Picapica 01:22, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

History mergers

Hey there. I was just looking through Wikipedia:Cut and paste move repair holding pen and noticed The Episcopal Church → Episcopal Church. I've actually been able to do the merge: while Episcopal Church could not be deleted, the other could - I therefore:

Deleted The Episcopal Church
Moved Episcopal Church → The Episcopal Church
Undeleted the history
Moved back to The Episcopal Church

A bit of a long way around, but it works if you really need to do it. violet/riga (t) 18:42, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Josip Juraj Strossmayer

On April 16th you asked me "what's the other censorship about?" in an edit for the Strossmayer article. Apparently on the 15th I editted several parts of the article and this question was in response to that. The weird thing is, I didn't edit anything except that I added the link to the Croatian article about him. I'm not sure what happened to make all the other changes, but I didn't do it. :\ thewanderer 21:52, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Croats

Josipe, I'm the one who edited the article you reverted...Is it wise to reconnect the Croats and their perception of the Chetniks with all of that? It turns Croats (at best) into cowards. --VKokielov 23:34, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

J, I changed the sentence again - differently. It's your domain, so if you don't agree this time, I'm not going to fight. See what you think. --VKokielov 22:12, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The old wording was: "On the other side [i.e hand], Croats and Bosnians still see Chetniks as some kind of a fascist movement, not dissimilar to the fascist groups of their own, such as the Ustaše and SS Handžar Division ". The problem is that we can't pass judgment on what the Croats think about the Ustashe. They know that the rest of the world thinks the Ustashe were Nazis, but, goodness me if I ever wrote that Israel sees apartheid in South Africa no differently from its own army's actions. What's certain is that Croats and Bosnjaks don't want a holier-than-thou from any Serbs about the Chetniks. --VKokielov 22:58, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Lake Volta

Interesting - I've found several sources which claim Lake Nasser is the largest artificial lake in the world, and yet it seems to be around 6,000km² - decidedly less than Lake Volta. I suspect that I was right the first time and Lake Volta is indeed the largest artificial lake in the world. Warofdreams 10:04, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I need your help

Joy, I need your help regarding User:Hipi_Zhdripi. Please check out his contributions. They are not vandalism per se, but certainly give me headache. Please check out his talk page and his contribs, and tell me what you think. Thanks in advance, --Dejan Cabrilo 22:11, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! I am not sure if he constitutes a vandal, and I am not exactly sure what to do about his edits. He sure made a mess so far, and it's a huge job to clean up after him. (I am sorry to sound so POV, but once you get a good look at his edits, I think you will see what I am talking about) --Dejan Cabrilo 07:53, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Capitals

Joy, hteo bih da se konsultujem sa tobom u vezi jednog clanka. Rec je o clanku Capitals_of_Hungary. Ne vidim osnovu po kojoj su Sisak i Sremska Mitrovica uvrsteni ovde kao Madjarsake prestonice. Ta dva grada niti su se nalazila na teritoriji danasnje Madjarske, niti su se nalazila na teritoriji istorijske Madjarske, u vreme kada je ona obuhvatala te teritorije. Dakle, pominjanje ova dva grada u ovom clanku mi lici na kradju Vojvodjanske i Hrvatske istorije. Prema tome, predlazem da se to brise iz ovog clanka. Medjutim da ne bismo potpuno obrisali ovo, ta dva grada kao istorijske prestonice rimske Panonije treba pomenuti u posebnim clancima koji su predvidjeni za to. Ja sam vec napisao clanak Capitals_of_Vojvodina, gde sam pomenuo Sirmium, a napisacu i clanak Capitals_of_Serbia, gde cu ga takodje pomenuti. Tebi predlazem da napises clanak Capitals_of_Croatia (posto ja bas nemam podataka o toj temi) i da tamo pomenes Sisak, a zatim mozemo ova dva grada izbrisati iz clanka o prestonicama Madjarske. Da li se slazes sa mojim predlogom. User:PANONIAN

Moram reci da se ne slazem bas potpuno sa tvojim poslednjim izmenama u clanku o prestonicama Madjarske. Smatram da nisi morao da obrises gradove: Aquincum, Savaria i Sopianae. Shvatam, kojim si se principom koristio ovde, ali mislim da taj princip bas nije odgovarajuci. Navescu jedan primer. Kada bismo recimo pisali istoriju Srbije, postavilo bi se sledece pitanje: da li da istoriju Srbije pocnemo od Ilira, Tracana i Rimljana, ili da je pocnemo od Sarmatije i Bele Srbije u Polablju, posto su Srbi tamo ziveli pre nego sto su dosli na Balkan. Moram primetiti da se u istorijskim knjigama koje sam citao o toj temi koriste oba principa, dakle, neko pocinje istoriju Srbije od Ilira, a neko od Sarmata, a tesko je reci ko je u pravu. Istorija Srbije, Madjarske ili Hrvatske nije iskljucivo istorija ovih drzava u vreme kad su postojale sa tim imenom, nego istovremeno i istorija geografskog podrucja na kom se te drzave nalaze. Na primer, ocigledno je da za vreme turske vladavine Srbija nije postojala, ali u istorijskim knjigama o Srbiji se pise i o vremenu turske vladavine. Prema tome, pisati u istoriji Srbije samo o vremenu kada je postojala pod tim imenom, a iskljuciti istoriju tog geografskog podrucja u vremenu kada Srbija nije postojala, je jedna nepotrebna iskljucivost. Sta je poenta? Smatram da su rimski gradovi Aquincum, Savaria i Sopianae deo istorije Madjarske i da bi ih trebalo vratiti u clanak (makar pronaci neki poseban odgovarajuci podnaslov pod kojim bi se mogli staviti). Sto se tice clanka o prestonicama Vojvodine, taj clanak sam vec nedavno napisao, i to koristeci oba pomenuta principa. Dakle ukljucio sam prestonice istorijskih pokrajina koje su se nalazile na teritoriji danasnje Vojvodine, kao i istorijske prestonice Vojvodine i Srema (Temisvar i Debrc), koje se nisu nalazile na teritoriji danasnje Vojvodine. Zaista ne vidim razlog da ne koristimo oba principa, kako kod ovog clanka, tako i kod drugih clanaka o prestonicama Madjarske, Srbije, Hrvatske, itd. Inace, moja primedba na clanak o prestonicama Madjarske je bila ta sto se Siscia i Sirmium tamo nisu mogli uvrstiti ni po jednom od dva pomenuta principa, ali to nije slucaj sa ostala 3 rimska grada. Sto se tice toga da li je Vojvodina imala mnogo prestonica, samo uporedi taj clanak (u kom sam nabrojao 8 prestonica), sa sadasnjim clankom o prestonicama Madjarske (u kom ih ima 5). Pretpostavljam da je to dovoljno za poseban clanak. User:PANONIAN

Joy, vratio sam 3 prestonice Panonije u clanak o prestonicama Madjarske, a dopisao sam ih tako da izgledaju minorno u odnosu na glavni tekst (kako si rekao). Pogledaj da li se slazes sa tim kako je napisano. User:PANONIAN

Balkan NPOV page

Pisem vama trojici koji ste se prijavili jos onomad na m:South Slavic NPOV page (Hariju, Xjamu i tebi), posto sam napravio neke izmene, a potaknut desavanjima vezanim za stranicu en:Kosovo. Dakle, definitivno treba to da aktiviramo. Preko toga, ja sam promenio ime u m:Balkan NPOV page zato sto mi se cini da tako ima znatno vise smisla. Treba ukljuciti u to i Albance, ali i Grke itd. i videti sta dalje. Meni se cini da je dobro da napravimo template koji kaze da je ta i ta stranica pod obradom Balkan NPOV page i da tamo treba razgovarati i sl. --Millosh 19:44, 3 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Tesanj population

Oops, that would seem to be a mistake on my part. I received that figure from [15], although as it happens I can't read Croatian. However I felt I could understand enough of it (Populacija, Bošnjaci, Srbi seem somewhat self-evident) that I could make sense of the figures. It seemed to me "stanovnika" meant something similar to "people" or "population". I didn't realize it was a municipality as well as a town. Looking at it again, it seems the town's population is 5.668 and the municipality's is 52.249. Sarge Baldy 14:58, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

Banja Luka

Joy, if you have time could you visit Banja Luka page (see discussion page also). I've been dealing with user Oldadamm who also passes himself as 81.93.75.129 . It has been difficult to reason with this person and his edits and occassional vandalism on several other pages have been going on for months. Thanks. --Dado 04:45, 13 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

1991 BiH census Muslim vs. Bosniak

83.93.2.84 keeps changing your 1991 census information in various articles, replacing the word 'Muslim' with 'Bosniak'. While most Muslims in BiH now identify themselves as Bosniaks, I don't think it's very accurate to change the census information just because of that. I was going to edit it, but because of the scope of the issue I thought I'd check with you first. You probably have more experience dealing with these sticky situations. Thanks. --Thewanderer 20:28, 13 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Titlelacksdiacritics

Why the specificity to diacritics? Considering TFD. -SV|t 22:05, 14 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

From Template talk:Wrongtitle: Considering that there is very little distinction between proper use and oversuse of this template, there should be some enforced rules regarding what does and does not get used. I think that this is all improper, and only highlights a technical issue, which there isnt even an agreement to classify it as a difficulty The "Foo should be foo" is a good example of this problem. The fact that its use is primarily limited to Roman alphabet-based systems is an ethnocentric concept of policy - why is a Swedish name called "wrongly titled" when a Chinese name is not? Its really very inconsistent, and only serves the purpose of advancing various diacritic systems. Further its not "wrong" - its policy to name things in English - not in any other language. The fact that there is limited capability for the latter should be a positive bellweather for the future, not a basis for complaining about the problems. -SV|t 21:10, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Obavesti me...

... o glupostima koje se objavljuju ovde glede veze Srba i ameba. Najbolje je na mojoj strani za razgovor na srpskoj Vikipediji. Sad sam izmenio Zahumlje. Pogledacu slicne stvari... --Millosh 16:50, 18 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Da li je i ima li izvora o tome da je Stefan Vojislav srpsko-hrvatskog porekla ili ne? (Ovo je o Duklji.) --Millosh 20:23, 18 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Znas, ne razumem se ja puno u istoriju ranog Srednjeg veka. I u tom smislu ne mogu nista da komentarisem od onoga sto si ti napisao. Jedino, svakako, da je sasvim u enciklopedijskom duhu i da u tom smislu nemam zamerki. E, sad. Stvarno mislim da bismo te stvari morali globalno da resimo. Otud i ono moje stvaranje South Slavic NPOV-a i preimenovanje u Balkan NPOV. Lakse cemo sa sranjima izlaziti na kraj ako zajedno stojimo za odredjenih formulacija. Hajd pogledaj ono sto sam poslednje uradio: m:Balkan NPOV page/principles. --Millosh 15:28, 19 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Steward

Razgovarali smo malo (na srpskoj Vikipediji) i, bar mi koji smo razgovarali, smatramo da bi bilo dobro da se prijavis za stewarda. Ja te podrzavam, a verovatno je da cete podrzati i odredjeni broj drugih sa srpske Vikipedije. Lakse mi je da cimam tebe nego nekog na engleskom :) --Millosh 12:03, 21 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism

Apparently. I expected you to be the one to edit what I wrote. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Croatian_language&action=history

Thank you for editing the Yugoslav article. Remember, I'm looking from the side, so you have everything over me. --VKokielov 17:29, 22 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Delete "secular equation"

Would you please delete the "secular equation"? Both "secular equation" and secular equation are established by me, but the one with quotations are rarely, even never, be used. Please note that they both redirect to Characteristic polynomial. The request is to delete "secular equation", not Characteristic polynomial. Thank you

Jacob grace 05:01, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much. :D ^^ Jacob grace 16:56, 25 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

What do you think?

Here's a citation about kajkavian from M. Stevanovic's book:

"oblik vokativa je jednak nominativu; čuvaju se stari oblici množine imenčkih oblika, uglavnom kao i u čakavskom. Kajkavsku deklinaciju karakterišu još i krači oblici množine...: bregi, lugi, listi, duhi. ...u instrumentalu...: menom, tebom, sebom; oblik genitiva...kaj...je česa; pokazne zamenice...u sažetom oblicima:ki, ka, ke; nastance [prideva] preneli su se i na tvrde: trdega, kukuruznega, crnelem); brojevi...sačuvali promenljivost: pred sedmimi letmi; nastavak...imperative množine -ete: držete, nesete, hodete: futur nesvr glagola se pravi od prezenta glagola biti i radnog prideva glagola koji se menja: budu ljudi šli, bum kopal; a od svršenih glagola za futur se uzima oblik prezenta: ja dostignem vas; kopaj i najdeš; ako ja izdravim tebe ne ostavim)"

What do you think? Worth anything? (I ask before I poop any more on your article). --VKokielov 04:47, 25 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Clergy

Please restore these pages. I'll let you know when I'm finished with them.

-- Netoholic @ 17:26, 2005 May 27 (UTC)

Nevermind, someone found where this ended up at (Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Croat Catholic Ustashi clergy), so I'm all set. -- Netoholic @ 19:20, 2005 May 27 (UTC)

Ethnic groups

I think this looks better. - 69.212.70.138 21:33, 27 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Counties of Croatia

you are ignorant and you are lying. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 22:27, 29 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

nevertheless I stop at letter O for now. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 22:33, 29 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

it was not meant offensiv, just a matter of fact. you are ignorant about overwhelming usage of uppercase and you are lying if you state that I provided not any real reason for move to uppercase. Maybe you are good Debian developper, but you should not start lying. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 22:37, 29 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

but then, nobody except you ever complained about that being lowercase.

and nobody but you reverted them to lowercase. There were also posts that really liked one naming scheme for all: "regularizing the links for this page is likely to result in something marvellous happening... -- The Anome 14:27, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)" Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Subnational entities

What I see from History of Austrian Empire seems to suggest:

župa/županija (hrv,slk?,...) = Gespanschaft (deu) = megye (hun)

the latter both are translated as county, so province probably would not be good for Hrvatski zupanije. Nobody claims that "X County" is the official name. It is the same thing wiht all the other entities. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 23:08, 29 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I never heard Gespanschaft until some month ago when I saw it in wikipedia. de:WP says it was used starting in middle ages, befor it was Komitat from latin Comitatus. If Zupan is translated as Prefect, than it could also be Prefecture? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 23:30, 29 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Whether prefecture or county - this is a seperate matter. But the term that is chosen should, with respect to upper/lowercase, not be different to the other subnational entities. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 16:22, 30 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

copyright in .yu

You wrote:

The same image was created in the former (socialist) Yugoslavia and as such does not enjoy any copyright protection. I don't believe this is correct. Do you have a reference as to the (non-)existence of authorship laws in former Yugoslavia? --Joy [shallot] 22:45, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Reply:

Former (socialist) Yugoslavia did not poses such laws or agreements that pertained to works (created) in the country. The whole concept was considered alien and contradictory to the socialist (i.e. communist) idea. As far as providing any evidence, I duly ask you to provide evidence to the contrary. Otherwise you have just an opinion.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Scorilo"

P.S. - I know see you are from Croatia, considering you might have lived in those times I suspect you are aware that conditions and economic relationships did not require such laws. What there was was in regard to foreign agreements and it mainly pertained to works by foreign authors. The fact that there were no private mass production/publishing enterprises precluded the need of such contingencies as copyrights in a Western sense or understanding of the word today. There were however regulations that enabled one or other state agency to have absolute right in publishing certain information, however this did not constitute or was not regulated as ownership since theoretically 'the people' owned everything. Also any rights to any works tended to be protected via contractual obligations and not laws per se.

However, Zagreb Film, Jugoton etc did exist in SFRY, and I am pretty sure they had some legal basis to protect their authors. It's possible that this was post-1974, but it's also possible that it was applied retroactively. I'd really have to see the text of the old law to state anything with certainty. --Joy [shallot] 11:34, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Reply:

At that time (and place) they didn't have the conception of our understanding of copyright rules. Such issues if they even came-up for dispute were resolved based on contractual obligations according to existing laws in the court of law that had the jurisdiction. But there were no (general) laws against reproducing or copying authored items or for protection of private (i.e. individual) ownership, so any infringement could only be direct based on a contract, and not universal. Essentially there were no laws directly protecting Intellectual Property in SFRY.

Also for a modern (i.e. Western), and evolving, understanding of copyrights see: http://creativecommons.org/ and http://www.lessig.org/blog/archives/002852.shtml

Origin of Serbs

Prvo, aj malo sredi svoju talk stranu :) --Millosh 15:26, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Drugo, pogledaj clanak. Video sam kod tebe da si pominjao Alane u vezi sa Hrvatima... Sve u svemu, ne znam sta da mislim o tom clanku. Postavio ga je neki User:Olgeralbanian i stvarno mi je nejasno kako da tretiram clanak. (Panonian ga je premestio iz clanaka History of Serbs i Serbia.) Elem, sve to ima nekih dodirnih tacaka sa stvarnoscu. Uzmimo, upravo povezuje Srbe i Hrvate sa Alanima, Osetima, a time i Pasutima. Interesantno je da su meni ocigledni recidivi ovoga medju Srbima (da li ga ima i medju Hrvatima?), po cemu su Pasuti najpoznatiji danas. Hajd, baci pogled, pa se ukljuci u pricu koju smo zapodenuli Panonian i ja. --Millosh 15:26, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Vec kako se zovu... Cuj, situacija na strani za razgovor je opustena, jer o tome pricamo trenutno samo User:PANONIAN i ja. Bilo bi dobro da izlozis ono sto si mi rekao tamo (na engleskom)... Meni se cini da se Panonski malo navukao na hipotezu (iako nije od tih ;) ) i poceo je tretirati zdravo za gotovo :) Verovanto zato sto je to stavio neko ko se deklarisao po nicku kao Albanac. Daklem, samo daj smernice glede toga tamo, pa da on nastavi sa ispravkama prema neutralnijem izgledu strane. Posto je vec krenuo na tome da radi. --Millosh 21:48, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry

I wasn't censoring. My delete finger is too fast. --VKokielov 01:20, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Your award

I'm not the only one. Give me a day, I'll get all of wiki:sr behind it. ;) They all appreciate what you do here. --VKokielov 01:44, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Awww, thanks :) --Joy [shallot] 11:43, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Medjimure

We did not reach an agreement yet on how to spell Medjimurje Party in English. I am aware that one writes Međimurje in Croatian, but the đ is not a character in the English alphabet. The article on Medjimurje uses the dj in stead of the đ. If one googles, English articles use dj. So let's write Medjimurje in English and Međimurska in Croatian. Electionworld 21:13, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Bahasa Serbia

Thanks, I've changed it. Muijz 00:04, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

A new "intro" for Yugoslavia

I don't like the current intro on Yugoslavia - it's inaccurate, not in prose and looks ugly :) I wanted to write a new intro but it turned out rather long (see User:Zocky/Sandbox). I'm not sure what to do with it now. I'm toying with the idea to make it into the history section (as it's formatted now) and move the text from the current history section to History of Yugoslavia, where it would probably need to be expanded some more. Any ideas ? Zocky 14:02, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Brankovici

Joy, you can make distinction between two Brankovici despots if you know when exactly each of them ruled. Djuradj Brankovic ruled between 1427 and 1456, while his grandson Djordje Brankovic ruled between 1486 and 1496. Besides this, I saw your language templates. I created bs-2 (Bosnian) language template, so you can add this one to your page. :) User:PANONIAN

Ok, I will try to make a proper redirect wherever George Brankovic is mentioned. User:PANONIAN

Also, maybe this could help:

User:PANONIAN

There are only 4 redirect pages for George/Gyorgy Brankovic. Three seems to point to proper article, but I am not sure for this one: Ferenc_Erkel. User:PANONIAN

Macedonians vs. Macedonian Slavs

Dear Joy, at the moment there is a poll taking place on the Macedonian Slavs talk page to which you could make a significant contribution both as a contributor and as an admin. Thank you in advance for your participation. Ivica83 13:11, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I wish to applaud your effort to keep the poll on this neutral; I should point out that abstaining won't do it - only non-abstaining votes are counted. Septentrionalis 20:51, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Boroevic

hi there. i wasn´t aware that accents do not work, although they do with "í" for example? very strange.. the "von Bojna" is necessary in my opinion though. do a search, and you will find more "Boroevic von Bojna", because that was his complete name, and Wikipedia has a policy of accuracy and completeness. it is also debatable with the Boroevic or Borojevic, can you provide convincing facts that it was spelled Borojevic and that it´s the same as Boroevic? most of the literature I found says Boroevic.. Antares911 11:56, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Re:new stub types

Hi Joy - um, you do realise that you're meant to wait a week before making new stub templates, don't you? I mean, it's unlikely anyone would have objected to law-bio-stub, but it's worth waiting just in case anyone comes up with better suggestions for it... Grutness...wha? 00:20, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Fair enough - I must admit I've been very tempted to make some early too, but I feel I'm already too "pushy" on WP:WSS, so I haven't. As to SQL, I don't think I'm able to help there. Other than word processing and graphics, I'm still pretty much just an end-user as far as computers are concerned. Grutness...wha? 23:17, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Croatia ethnic-cleansing image.

Greetings Joy. I'm confused: why did you make this reversion? – Quadell ^{(talk) (sleuth)} 15:13, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

Ljudevit, Franks etc.

OK, thanx, I'll see. Btw, I've edited Vojna Krajina at hr wiki, and will, some time later, the article on "RSK". Since I got a lot of extra writing on various non-wiki stuff, feel free (if you find time) to alter en wiki pages on "RSK" and Vojna krajina using hr wiki material. Mir Harven 12:35, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

renaming cuisine of country articles

Hi, you are renaming quite a number of articles. Is there a consensus for doing so? --Vsion 21:00, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I have a slight preference for using "/adjective/ cuisine" too, but there is also a valid reason for using "cuisine of /noun/", see comment in Talk:Cuisine of China. I just wish to highlight this to you. Good Luck! --Vsion 21:14, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

imdb template limitations

Original reply copied here.

Actually I just tested it with Luków, as it is using the {{titlelacksdiacritics}}), although it is in the title; and it seemed to work fine. Are there any other titles that currently have them that I could try it with? <>Who ?¿? 22:45, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Miladin Prso

Obrisao sam "srpski". Cuj, slobodno se prijavi na srpskoj Vikipediji i izmeni ono sto mislis da ne valja. Nije potrebno da tamo neko drugi menja... Sto se tice mogucih prepucavanja i problema, to ce se brzo lokalizovati. Na sr: vazi NPOV kao i na en: i nema tu sta da se raspravlja ako fakti kazu jedno a interpretacija drugo. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 28 June 2005 10:23 (UTC)

Plural migration

It's Migration, not Migrations. It is references to the "Germanic people". Nice job waiting for other members to chime in before making the move, and moving it to the wrong name, which now cant be easily fixed. Stbalbach 28 June 2005 16:45 (UTC)

Cuisine moves

I'm definitely not thrilled with the moves, and I think it would have been much more sensible to at least wait for consensus first. I've made comments at Talk:Cuisine. And ou maight want to try archiving this page now. --Dmcdevit 28 June 2005 23:27 (UTC)

Care help to a newbie? :-)

I can't sort out in Wikipedia documentation if this is posible so I decided to ask you as you seem to be experienced and you did copy-edit the article in question... On sl:Bijelo_dugme, there is a image which I'd like to display in en:Bijelo_Dugme. The image is obviously already uploaded to Wikpedia, I just have to link it. Doing the [ [Image:Bijelo dugme nasllovnica Kad bi bio bijelo dugme.jpg] ] did nothing... :-| It seems image databases are language speciffic. Is there a way to display a picture already uploaded, but in a different language section? Dijxtra 2 July 2005 15:50 (UTC)

Oops! Can we undo this?

Hello, sorry to be a bother, but I was trying to figure out how to remove a POV Template from a page and I ended up removing the POV Template from the Help page. I can't figure out how to restore it 71.113.238.12

Fixed. --Viriditas | Talk 3 July 2005 08:17 (UTC)

De-sysopping Shallot

Hi Joy. User:Shallot is still an admin. Do you have any objection to de-sysopping that user account? dbenbenn | talk 5 July 2005 16:03 (UTC)

Hungary

Hi Joy,

While doing your copyedit to this article, you altered the time of migration of Slavic tribes. Did you do it on purpose? To me, although I'm not an expert, the original EC text sounded more plausible. If this change was intentional, could you possibly support it with sources on the article's talk page?

KissL 6 July 2005 13:19 (UTC)

OK, so I'll need to pass the question on to Juro (it's apparently him who added that to the Pre-history article).

And, yes, the phrasing is way better, I forgot to say THANKS for that. :)

KissL 6 July 2005 13:48 (UTC)

Somebody's been messing around...

Vandalism. See:http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/ARD_and_Jwalker&action=edit , http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bosnia_and_Herzegovina&action=history etc. Mir Harven 7 July 2005 12:28 (UTC)

RFC?

In my opinion, the RFC on ARD and JWalker is confusing to the point of illegibility. There is a template for new RFCs; might I suggest that you work from there and fill in the fields? This is not really an issue of bureaucracy, it's just the fact that you would get a lot more feedback if the RFC were easier to read. R adiant _>|< July 7, 2005 12:44 (UTC)

(in particular, "at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this user and have failed" - that is far from obvious from the current text). R adiant _>|< July 7, 2005 12:44 (UTC)

You're free to join the discussion. An to invite anyone interested. I'm wailing for experts in the field <vbg>. Mir Harven 7 July 2005 13:31 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't have time to look into this case deeply, but if you write this down somewhat clearer I'm sure you get the feedback you seek. However, it was pointed out to me that this may be borderline vandalism? Excessive reverting (even if below the 3RR), repeatedly adding nonsense to articles, or ignoring consensus can each be grounds for blocking the user if other approaches, such as warning and discussing, have been tried well, and failed. Or you can always ask aroudn on WP:AN/I. R adiant _>|< July 7, 2005 14:10 (UTC)

Not only this..

Better check other pages (B&H etc.). It's vandalism, not just RFC mess. Mir Harven 7 July 2005 13:28 (UTC)

Hm...maybe I'm wrong. It occured to me that Talk BH page was changed. OK then..Mir Harven 7 July 2005 16:04 (UTC)

to answer your question...

... the admin who removed the "cleanup-importance" tag from all the articles that had it was David Gerard. -- Antaeus Feldspar 9 July 2005 02:17 (UTC)

Zlatiborski jezik :)

Dakle, nisu bas gluposti, ali je notacija losa. U standardnoj lingvistickoj notaciji to moze biti govor ili dijalekat (mada je i dijalekat prejaka rec). Znaci, taj bi mogao da se klasifikuje kao: IE -> balto-slovenski -> slovenski -> juzni -> zapadni -> stokavski -> ijekavski (mada mi se cini da je danas ekavsko-ijekavski) -> novi -> (jebemligasta) -> zlatiborski. Ali, to se ovde ne radi, vec se koristi uglavnom Etnologova klasifikacija; po kojoj ovaj ne moze biti zaseban jezik (poredjenja radi, standardni hrvatski i zagrebacki dijalekat sa dosta kajkavskog uticaja su medjusobno dalji nego i standardni hrvatski i standardni srpski od ovog govora). --millosh (talk (sr:)) 04:34, 11 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"Nisam odavde" ;) pa sam ukratko skontao da treba da stavim "disputed". Mada mi se cini da je zlatiborska literatura samo "dubious" (ili kako vec). Ti si tu iskusniji, pa te molim da vec sredis te tehnikalije. Inace, za koji dan cu se ovim pozabaviti (cim se malo naspavam :) ). --millosh (talk (sr:)) 04:34, 11 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

E, da. Zaboravio sam da ti se zahvalim za naznaku za ovaj tekst :) --millosh (talk (sr:)) 04:40, 11 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Zlatiborian

If you write me any sentence in English, I'll translate it for you to Serbian and to Zlatiborian. Do you want to try this? Serbian and Croatian have many common words, but I'm sure you won't ever say that Croatian is not a real language.

Croatian war

Sorry, I forgot to make the redirect again after deleting the copyvio on the page. After deleting 50 or 60 copyvios I start to get forgetful :) Thanks for putting it back.--nixie 22:47, 12 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Ancient-Egypt-stub

Hi Joy - you wrote: I wonder, how did you rename Egypt-stub to Ancient-Egypt-stub and change the category? I'm asking because of Template_talk:Cleanup-importance#category name.

I didn't - I simply proposed it at WP:SFD. It looks like User:Grm wnr did the actual work on the changeover. BTW - isn't it time you archived some of this page? It's extremely long! Grutness...wha? 00:45, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Chronicum Venetum

We'll see. Btw- this page is 141 k long. Time for page-cut. Mir Harven 18:08, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You're right about the "yat"...

I think...but let me check my sources. why is it "ja" in Russian? And what do the Slovaks call them? And, remember, you call them "Slaveni" and not "Slavjeni". --VKokielov 18:32, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Did it come out wrong? I meant to make an e with an ogonek. --VKokielov 18:42, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'll check first, and if it was a nasal, then I'll revert. Thank you. --VKokielov 19:16, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Shortcut WP:WPC

I've changed WP:WPC so that it now goes to WikiProject Countries, and added that shortcut to the project page. WP:Cal is the new shortcut for WikiProject California. BlankVerse ∅ 22:07, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Zlatiborski, opet

E, ovaj je napravio krs svojih zlatiborsko-nacionalnih clanaka. Da neko pravi slicnu pricu o Vojvodjanima, opet bi tu bilo velikih problema glede tacnosti podataka (npr. ne postoji vojvodjanska nacionalnost [niko se ne izjasnjava tako; odnosno, ako se neko tako izjasnjava, u pitanju je broj ljudi koji ne ulazi ni u kakve statistike], iako su Vojvodjani znatno blizi tako necem). Da se slikovito izrazim: to bi bilo kao da neko kaze da na postoji nacija/etnicitet sa Cresa. Dakle, na odredjenim clancima sam stavljao da su disputed (napravicu potpuni spisak clanaka), mada mi se cini da su za brisanje; ukljucujuci i sliku image:Симбол Института.JPG, koju koristi "The Institute for the Zlatiborian language and literature". Dakle, koliko shvatam, za disputed je dovoljno da objasnim na strani za razgovor o cemu se radi, dok mi ono drugo (ukljucujuci {{ifd}}) zvuci previse naporno. Sve u svemu, kao sto rekoh, nisam bas preterano upucen u metode upozorenja, pa te molim da uzmes stvari u svoje ruke. Covek ili hoce da izvrgne ruglu Vikipediju ili ima opsesivnu zelju da napravi zlatiborsku naciju. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 07:18, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sumerian

Who associates highly sumerian origin of magyars with racism, fascism etc.? [16]. In hungary, mainly communists, in abroad, mainly pan-slavic racist anti-hungarian propagandists. Gubbubu 19:28, 17 July 2005 (UTC) (hungarian)[reply]

Dead Facts, not live horses

My response to UCLA and the other stuff is on My talk page. I'm about the last person on earth to get into the ethnic arguments -- far too cowardly. Geogre 15:30, 18 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/ARD and Jwalker

Thank you very much for notifying me. Sango123 17:28, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Re:Re:Sumerian

Sorry then, I surely missed it. Gubbubu

Question

Friend...I apologize for asking something which may be obvious, but as an educated person I wanted to get the real "low down"...aside from alphabet, how different in intelligibility are Bosnian, Serbian, and Croatian? Thanks a lot! ~ Dpr 05:17, 20 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot for all your help! So basically, if you are proficient in one, you will understand about 80-90% of the others? ~ Dpr 19:26, 20 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the additional information. I understand. I suspect that's true of several clusters of partially-mutually intelligible languages/variants. Best! ~ Dpr 22:02, 20 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

From Sargeras

OK, I have added three paragraphs in our discueeion; first concerning about Serbia-Vojvodina and Croatia-Dubrovnik; second concerning several more facts and the last containing a short summary of the entire history of Dubrovnik and the sorroundings.

I must say that I am surprised to see so much falso info; I admire the Habsburgs, and yet their years are not correct. The years differ on different pages (same peoples' years). I have corrected several, but I am simply sick of correcting others. Then, in the page concerning the history of Bulgaria, look at the years in which the Bulgarians became ORthodox Christians (even BEFORE the two churches split?). And at the page with our discussion on Croatia, Shallot says that Yugoslavia is a socialist country (the correct use is country, not state) based on the fact that it's name was The Federative Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia. How about the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics? And the existence of the communist party of Yugoslavia (KPJ)? And, plus, all the discussions about the errors I start, no one seems to be interested! I hate changing info without other peoples' agreeing.

As for another matter, I need a third party opinion. Tell me what do you think is the number of executed in the Independant State of Croatia. Now, you write in range (x-y) and write other peoples' sources, but I would preffer if you would just give your scale.

P. S. this page is far too long; split it or delete some closed discussions Sargeras 12:04, 20 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ahm, OK, but what about my three paragraphs at the discussion and the fact that this page is too long? And I wanted your personnal opinion, written by you. P. S. Will you help me preserve the correct onfo of Wikipedia? (onsidering the above-mentioned) Sargeras 12:49, 20 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Nm, I just noticed several Serbist propaganda articles, but they're gone now, silly me :). You're totally right on the other matter. It is unfortunate that history repeated itself so primitivly in the civil war of Yugoslavia. I have seen a part of the city turned into a death-camp and I have also seen rivers of corpses floating across the rivers. Horrors that spreaded from Istria to Kosovo will be remembered only by us that have seen that; and their truthful horrific story will never be told. NTW I have written a little more in the discussion of Croatia. Hope that you get time to read it. :) Sargeras 09:19, 22 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

OK, Joy, since you're probably not there I am closing the discussion :( I would still like to hear one thing from you: What woul you do, if you were the president of the Republic of Croatia in 1989? Imagine that I am the president of the Federation of Yugoslavia; and try to re-enact things. Rewrite history. Do your best; I know that it is almost impossible to ask someone to think on that matter, but just try it out. I really want to hear you out. (Start from the rapid decrease of Yugoslav centralised power, and with the ascending of the separatist movements in Slovenia, now about to come to Croatia too) Well, I will be waiting. Sargeras 17:27, 24 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, where the heck are you??? Sargeras 12:16, 29 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You have to nominate early for DYK

You should know the policy is to not put items older than 72 hours on DYK, which is why I could not accept Ivan Lupis in the latest update. Next time send it up a little earlier if you can. Thanks.--Pharos 02:48, 21 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting facts certainly don't cease to be interesting after three days, but the point of DYK isn't really to highlight interesting facts; it's to highlight some of the better of the very newest articles, to show how Wikipedia is growing all the time.--Pharos 18:53, 21 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually I've been thinking about it, and I see your point. The overly short period does hamper article quality and variety of selection, among other things. Please see my proposal to extend the period to 7 days at Wikipedia talk:Did you know.--Pharos 20:53, 23 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Serbs

I think that this article has no need to be locked any more. You can just block that user. --M. Pokrajac 08:24, 22 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

List of people by nationality

You're obviously a highly respected user around these parts. Respect to you on that. However, I feel I ought to mention that I'm having trouble with the page List of people by nationality. Over the past week or so I've put in loaaaads of work adding new nationalities, but still respecting the original editorial suggestions, yet it has been turned back to its original skeletal state. What would you suggest? - Anadine.

Thank you!

Thank you for your welcome! Yes, I already thought about writing an article about Rovinj and I'll do it as soon as possible... ;) --Ivana 11:21, 26 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You may be interested

You might be interested in this current vote: Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/List of Roman Catholics -Doohickey

Dialects in Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia

E, ovo je besmislica. Kao sto sam ti tamo rekao, taj pojam je bio SFRJ propaganda. Niti su cakavski i kajkavski srpski li bosnjacki; niti je torlacki bosnjacki ili hrvatski. A sistemi su medju stok., kajk., cakav. i torl. su toliko razliciti, da ih je smesno trpati u isti kos ako ne postoje politicko-propagandni razlozi. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 00:23, 4 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'll let the citations speak

From Morocco: Morocco was the first nation to recognize the fledgling United States in 1777 and has the oldest non-broken friendship treaty with the country, the Moroccan-American Treaty of Friendship, which has been in effect since 1783. John Adams and Thomas Jefferson were the American signatories. The United States legation (consulate) in Tangier, is the first property the U.S. owned abroad. It now houses the Tangier American Legation Museum. Morocco was granted Major Non-Nato Ally status in June 2004 and signed free trade agreements with the United States and the European Union.

From Republic of Dubrovnik: In 1776, The Ragusan Republic became the first foreign power to recognize the government of the United States.

How shall we sort it out? How does one sort out these trivia? --VKokielov 02:09, 6 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Answer on Isthmus of Dubrovnik

Ahhhh - in edit mode, you would have seen the imbedded comment noting that the isthmus is part of the isthmus category, not to mention notable and famous in and of itself, inasmuch as Dubrovnik rivaled Venice (and still does, at least as a tourist city, in many ways) as a major player in the Mediteranean Sea during the late middle ages and early renesance. I'd guess with a little digging, the isthmus itself should turn up some interesting information sufficient to flesh out a short article. I was merely trying to expand an article that referenced it, so thus wiki grows! FrankB 23:10, 11 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Darn! To make matters worse, I just discovered my original fixes and edits to Isthmus ended up so deep in collateral edits of things dealing with Ice Ages, Glaciers and related esoterica such as Snowball Earth, that my original all-but-finished edit (? edits?!!!) evidently got shoved out of temporary memory, so denying me time to save it (and probably one or two others). Darn it, hate when that happens!

FrankB

suzerainty

So many times you have had to correct me, it is nice to just once return the favor. ;-) Dejvid 18:14, 14 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

measurements

hi shallot, i thought i could ask you or one of your friends a somewhat technical question. what units of measurement does croatia use? i assume they use metric, but what about for pressure? does the country use bar or kpa? or something else? do you know where i can find more info on the subject? thanks, jeff

Removing comments

OK, I removed my comments only. Pleased?--Ђорђе Д. Божовић 11:21, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Minor edits to History of Croatia

Dobro večer. My apologies for having introduced errors whilst I was making all those edits to History of Croatia and thank you for having corrected me :o) — OwenBlacker 19:43, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

Paddy Ashdown

Dear Joy - regardnig my removal of the last sentence from the article on Paddy Ashdown- see my comments in the discussion about the article - MarianL 08:21, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

TEmplate:catneeded

A very very good and needed idea, just would it be possible to get some bot going over pages and adding this template? There is Perle and some other. Because I doubt that anybody will manually add it since it's much easier to add a category itself.

Stubs, xxxx births or deaths, 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica, and bunch of other clean up & maintenance categories should not be counted as valid categories. Renata3 11:20, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

History of Dalmatia

Hi Joy,

why did you returned the lines that aren't supposed to be there?

Eastern Orthodoxy came in Dalmatian Hinterland in 18th century, with fugitives from Ottoman territory. But if you count from the Great Shism, Eastern Orthodoxy was at first in the cities. Byzantium. Hinterland itself was divided between Roman Catholicism and Bogomil creed, when the latter appeared.

Dalmatian city-states fell back for support to anyone who was willing to "help", when necessary. Not just Venice.

Then, there is no need for the line "Dalmatia never attained a political or racial unity and never formed as a nation...". Why it should? Neither Pannonia attained it, but nobody mentions it. Dalmatia always was just an administrative region, which got its name after the Illyric tribe that lived only on the part of that territory.

Sincerely, Kubura 15:02, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

bash shell disambiguate in Unix

Joy, I put in the proper link to the bash shell in the Unix article. The original one was a redlink. Please test the link before you revert my edit. If you think it is better, maybe we should create a redirect from Bash shell to Bash. Gbeeker 15:23, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Umm, you broke the link by adding " shell". The edit was unnecessary at the time when it was done, so I had rolled it back. Someone created that redirect in the meantime. --Joy [shallot] 20:50, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for replying. I actually removed the ' shell' to fix the redlink. I suspect that the redirect may have been in flux when you did the revert. No harm done, it all looks good now. Gbeeker 21:18, 22 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I saw the discussion about vandalism (Request for Comment) and the medeival principalities

Wait a moment.

Didn't the Christian Church split after 1000 AD?

So how do you distinguish a Serb from a Croat before then? --VKokielov 18:15, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Of course. But then the Serbs should annex Lusatia. ;) --VKokielov 23:49, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Croatian "RSK" census

Idi vidi http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Republika_Srpska_Krajina, "Netko nema pojma..." Mir Harven 22:08, 20 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Also, this 450+ k population figure from 1992 to 1995 is laughable. They (Martić, Babić, Hadžić,..whoever) inflated those figures to boost a morale. The numner was from 200 k to 250 k in all four sectors. http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republika_Srpska_Krajina#Procjene_broja_stanovnika Mir Harven 08:59, 21 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

- The official census held in the spring of 1991, just before the war began, showed that 555,540 people lived in the territory of what became the RSK. Of these,

   * 331,619 (59,7%) were Serbs,
   * 168,026 (30,2%) were Croats and
   * 55,895 (10,1%) were other Yugoslavs, Muslims, Hungarians, Slovaks etc.

- The increase in the Krajina's Serbian population was almost certainly due to Serbs from other parts of Croatia moving to the Krajina to escape ethnic tensions in their home regions.

- Where did you get these fairy tale figures from ? There is the official Croatian census published in numerous books- and it is given at the second table on the page. The figures (300 + k Serbs etc.) you put here are a pure fiction. If needs, I'll put the whole stuff online. Just as ICTY sloppy rubbish isn't enough. Geez...Mir Harven 14:24, 21 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

- - Then, delete the trash. Why endorse someone's crappy math ? Mir Harven 16:44, 21 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Unprotected articles

Just letting you know that I unprotected lots of Serbia and Bosnia related articles that I see you protected back in July. They had been protected for over a month, and I feel that's too long for a wiki. I also removed their listing from Wikipedia:Protected page. Let's hope this long period of protection has helped things to calm down. Shanes 23:10, 22 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, well

My dear friend Joy-shallot, I had noticed that someone has re-arranged the info in the Croatia article, percisly not to include the Serbian history (twice Dubrovnik) as it says that it was originally Byzantine (Roman) and Venetian. Between those two stood ", Serbian" before as it became a part of Duklja before Venetia. I scrolled across the Croatian Dubrovnik-concerning websites, and I noticed that not only the Serbian perios is completly missing, but they mentioned tw times in the history when Dubrovnik was frontiering a Croatian state (besides the fact that it was engulphed by a Serbian nearly all the time). I don't mind it, I got very much used to being discriminated just for being an Orthodox, as I spent the last three weeks in Croatia. I can't tell you in short notice my experiences, but I asure you, you won't like them. Everywhere where I turned I saw only hatred, further destruction and etc. I will write to you, if that isn't a problem, as I need an opinion of someone... well... of a Croat (you made me say this you know, I was going to say Catholic Yugoslav). I noticed that in the history of Croatia, it says: "The civilian population fled the areas of armed conflict en masse: generally speaking, thousands of Croats moved away from the Bosnian and Serbian border, while thousands of Serbs moved towards it." and at several other cases it keeps forcing the reader to understand that Serbs are evil. It does not mention the hundreds of thousands of Serbs that abandoned their homes, forcibly; nor the thousands killing in 1991-1992 in Osijek, during Bljesak and Oluja, and after the war; in the 1995-1997 turmoil years which saw major ethnic cleansing (the Croatian government calls it "criminal acts"). That sentence I quotted makes the reader think that the Frontier had only a minority of Serbs and that only later "thousands moved in". When in fact, it happenned with the cities like Knin: tens of thousands of Serbs moved out, tens of thousands of Croats moved-in. I also noticed it says that Alexander was assassinated by radical groups (evading to mention the Ustaša and VMRO separatist movements) P. S. I discovered that the Bosnian and Frontier Serbs were generally called Četniks and Croats Ustašas; that is the reason why I referred to "Ustasha war plans". Oh, and, don't be mad at me, by I noticed that you rather make me proove things are NOT true, rather that making me proove that they are. And I would like a mention of Croatia's gigantic refugee problem in it's article (if that is even possible). 212.62.33.4 10:09, 23 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You can respond to me in here. HolyRomanEmperor 16:49, 24 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Could you please look at http://www.hrvatskiustaskipokret.com and the links there? Send me a comment, will you? HolyRomanEmperor 17:19, 24 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Višegrad

I'm glad to have your input on the page for Višegrad. I've read Andrić's The Bridge on the Drina and am looking for a more extensive history of Višegrad. - Ghidra99

Sheshelj

I'm not so worried about Sheshelj as I am worried about whether it is wise to talk about rhotacism and the quality of oration. Especially when his rhotacism has naught to do with the dirt of his character. --VKokielov 15:54, 24 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Archive???

Did you ever think of archiving this page? You could use User talk:Joy/Archive 1 or something similar. Your talk page is quite long and takes a while to load for some of our slower users. Just thought I'd mention it. --Lord Voldemort ^{(Dark Mark)} 17:22, 24 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I figured you would know how. I was just trying to be helpful to those of us with really slow computers. Pardon my intrusion. My humblest apologies if I offended you. --Lord Voldemort ^{(Dark Mark)} 21:05, 24 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

May I ask why? I won't post about this topic again on your talk page, since it's so long already, and there is no need for me to make it any longer than it has to be. --Lord Voldemort ^{(Dark Mark)} 21:14, 24 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Class action against the vatican

Well done , and I am very glad you are so multi-lingual . It is strange co-incidence that you seem to have done this work at this moment in time . I just re-highlighted Bill Dorich on the BXVI page . I am having a lot of trouble from Str1977 , ever since I entered this organ . I strongly suggest you police the other language versions to be able to see how deep the apologia goes . Of course my appearance here alerts him and others to your presence, but then they will see what you have done anyway . This is all very sad and dirty , but it always was . Oh dear . Famekeeper 22:13, 24 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I can only suggest you read the discussion page on BXVI and follow my sordid history . I have a head-ache . it takes me a thousand lines of fighting to get one line of text in here . I am deeply peeved at what has to be church intervention - either that or I am mentally ill . I had a life , work . I need help , but not for an illness , unless WP is an illness . I get Str reverting me any time I do anything controversial , and Robert McClenon more recently . I pretty much have had to abandon honest attempts at editing and just remain arguing on discussions. Mind you , I can see their point of view .If I ever do write anything new, its like a race before the whirlwind sweeps it away . They are shameless- but appear superficially quite reasonable , until you see what they achieve . G'night.Famekeeper

ICE

Hi, I hadn't realized that you had made a revert on redirecting this. Could you see my comments on Talk:ICE (disambiguation)? Zoe 23:38, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

Re: reparation demands

"As far as calling it gigantic, I don't think that's accurate, because many of the refugees have waived their status as such - there were only about 14,000 house reparation demands registered with the government at the peak, which would imply that a large part of those 140,000 Croatian Serbs in Serbia never filled out the forms. Well, either that or all families had ten members, which is impossible." you said. I find that I am very insulted by that claims. Most of the Serbs can't go back because the Croatian government won't pay the damages. We have been fighting that Croatia repairs our two hous for that past eight years; sending formulars for 16 times alltogether. And we hired a lawyer to get us back our apartment in Karlovac. He was a Serb; and everyone called him a "četnik lawyer" so we had to find a Croat. You see, they said that they won't return it because we weren't there for six months reporting! (we couldn't because of the war)The lawyer said that we have a case because the man moved into our apartment two months after we left. But after eight years of endless payments to the lawyer and struggle we simply couldn't afford it and have noticed that the Croatian government actually does not want to ever return our things. So, while my cousins are here dying on the streets of hunger (Serbia is a very poor country when it reffers to refugees) because they spent their last nickels to send those forms, with only a tiny hand actually returning, I find you very offendive :(.

It is me, Sargeras, reffer to me this way. HolyRomanEmperor 12:48, 25 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Let me hear yo out

Here we go; please, do read carefully this, as I want to hear your comments. I was very surprised when I payed a visit to our grandfatherland; as, unlike I expected, the nationalistic ferver GREW in the past few years; not only amongst catholic Croatians (Croats), but Orthodox Croatians (Serbs, if you MUST) too.

1. I was very dissapointed when I saw Sanja's Top Show several years ago (I really liked the Yugoslav New Phosils group); as it's sole purpose was Croatian propaganda. Although, the situation is much clearer there as it is now a rather amsing show. I guess those Germans that bought RTL have finally saw it with their own eyes.

2. The Show: "Oluja nad olujama" (the Storm of storms). I have noticed that the show-man kept repeating: "...after the Serbs (generalizing again) have committed the greatest crime since World War II..." which is at least a little exaggarating. Some time, in the middle of the show, a general said that there were indeed cases during and after the Storm Operation (just after that French official proclaimed that the Storm was a genocide operation, whether planned or not) like Varivode. I can't even BELIEVE that he LIED ON NATIONAL TELEVISION. Guess from which village I was watching that show..... I will give you a hint... Varivode. I have been visiting my grandparents there for the past 5 years, and I asure you; NO ONE WENT TO PRISON FOR THE CRIMES. There were several accusations, but the suspected were released. The entire village was torched and the few survivors had been brutally killed, except one, a cousin of mine, Marija Dukić. She had witnessed the slaughter and wonderously escaped certain death. When she fled to the main road, she hitchhiked a ride. The driver asked her: "How many of you (Serbs) are still down there?" she answered: "well, around 15." She lied; everyone was killed in the village. She lied because she KNEW that they would either leave her or dump her somewhere in the wilderness. The driver then added: "...and you Serbs are even complaining that we aren't dressing you nicely..." Then someone compared the rockets launched at Zagreb with the Germans' V1 and V2. But then I saw president Franjo Tuđman, of whome there is no doubt that he was a criminal, and heard his nationalistic, and even for Croats exaggerated testimonies; like, after greeting the capture of Knin, the expulsionof Serbs from it and the fall of Krajina. he said something like: "...it was a croatian uprising, in the spirit of the Croatian people of Croatia; a true Croatian spiritual thing. " etc. Then I saw several recordings of Croatian soldiers spreading "justice" and "rightiousness". Then they interviewed a Croatian citizen in a town that was just released. He said: "My wife is Serb, she ran off with the other Serbs when your forces invaded..." and the soldier-journalist said: "WHAT? She LEFT YOU?!?" Then another journalist was interviewing an old lady that lived with the Serbs in the former Frontier (Krajina) about the worthlessness of the serbian valute "dinar". The lady said "I don't know; I can't remember" for at least five times and the journalist kept harrassing her. When the Croatian populace started to talk about the "orthodox returners" and them not returning mostly; the recordings were stopped.

3. Then there was a football player of the Croatian representation when it played against Brazil. He said: "When God helped us before, outside the playground, why shouldn't he help us here?"

4. I have noticed that in general, Croat- was being forced until recently. For instance, during the sport competitions, it was said: "...dragi Hrvati i Hrvatice..." but that is not today like it, because Croatia has far too many tourists to use that kind of propaganda.

5. Then I noticed in the programme, when te TV show "Jelena" was announced, in its short description it said: "serbian show" when at other places it reffers to drama, humoristic show... etc.

6. Everything Serb in Croatia is generally, minimized. Nikola Tesla is surely, accepted, but they now ask that Belgrade returns them his remains. The ethnicity which Croatia (almost generaly) rejected now wants a member of their society. Then, on several occasions reffering to the Croatian national anthem "Lijepa naša", it was said that it was written by an Orthodox Croat; even though there is a slight possibility that that even may be true, it is a well-known fact that he concidered himself a Serb Frontiersman. I hate when I see declarations like "Croatia will be PURE of Serbs" and hear "Lijepa naša" in the background. When there was a show about the famous agent 007, Bond, James Bond, it was said that the writer was insipired by a friend of his, unknown exactly who he was. We all know that it was an agent in the British Intelligence that was, well, if you will, a Serb.

7. Then there is the Branimir Glavaš situation. That evil-doer and cold-blooded killer is today a wealthy and appealed Croatian polititian. He commanded the BOB (Braminir's Osijak Battle-unit) which did terrible acts of torture and liquidation in Slavonia. It is a well-known fact that he not only KNEW about the ethnic cleansing, but ORDERED it as well. Đorđe Petrović and Čedomir Vučković were captured, beaten, forced to drink liquid acid and eliminated, later. There were places in the Dubrovnik street were these acts were covertly committed, one including a private house. The first witness was Josip Fehir who was sent to work for Glavaš by his own father, Krunoslav Fehir. Josip was a witness-under-protection. His identity was hidden. And Krunoslav, his own father, blew up his son's cover... As the witness claimed the first man was eliminated in front of Glavaš's very own eyes. And then Glavaš ordered: "Immediatly eliminate the other." Two more witnesses appeared against Glavaš, one of them possiblz Andrija Getoš Branimir Glavaš is nowdays resting on an Adriatic Island with several cars a yacht, his own private Mansion and a very young girl. He only stated that: "...and if you want to know anything about the things that happenned there, you should ask Šeks, for he was the one in charge there."

8. Vladimir Šeks, in Karlovac announced several times in 1991 that "...the Serbs will not be able to lead a policy like they have before..." and several other threats. Next to indirectly being involved in the crimes of Branimir Glavaš, he is one of the most powerdul men in Croatia.

9. Anto Đapić, the mayor of Osijek had claimed several outrageous facts the Osijek was a "peaceful zone".

10. everyone can remember the Paulin Dvor...

11. Ante Gotovina; look at http://www.antegotovina.com/ by the way

12. Karlovac is my birth place, and my beloved city, and yet today is a terrifying warzone. The criminal in Karlovac is amongst the highest in all of Croatia (one Roma woman has around six children and they are constantly looting). The beautiful Orthodox Church of St. Nikola in Karlovac was burned by the Ustaše members of the Croatian Army. The government had payed for the reconstruction of the church not so long ago. A construction fence was raised around it. No long ago, on the fence was written: "you build, and we will tear down again" next to a huge U. My dad's friend, one of the main people assigned for that project sarcasticly invented a slogan: "you tear down, but will pay again, and so shall we build again."

13. Knin: the SDSS (Serbian Democratic Self-Directive Party) formed a coalition with HDZ so that it could remain in power; while on regional elections, in Knin, HDZ "couldn't come with an agreement with the Serbs" as said the 25-year-old mayor of Knin. She said, in honor of the Storm Operation, that "...the people have returned and peace and prosperity can begin again..." when in fact, most of the citizenz of Knin are living in exile, outside (which is the reson why SDSS got so many votes) and the current citizens are newcomers mostly. It was also said that "...Knin's once famous factories and companies have crumbled and the city has lost it's greatness..." Ofcourse, that happens in a place when you generally change it's population.

14. Crvena Zvezda: The journalist Milan Jajčinović spoke about the return of "Arkan's Warriors" a. k. a. "the Red Devils" to Croatia. He spoke that there is no doubt that they will be wild, destructive as they were... etc

15. When I visited Kistanje, you don't even want to hear how tense the situation is there: the Croats hate the Serbs, the Serbs hate the Croats....

16. General-Colonel of HV (Croatian Army), Mladen Kruljac, ordered a deserted JNA (People's Army of Yugoslavia) sniperist, Tomislav Abramović, to shoot several civilians, as his ex-soldier Želimir Dragočević claims. And I donćt need to mention the cold war between Mladen Kruljan and Ante Prkačin that goes on still today.

17. During the Inter Zaprešić-Crvena Zvezda match, the Croatian police and para-military forces kept the Delije (cheerers of Crvena Zvezda) that had come from Serbia under a strong grip. Several of them were returned to Serbia just because they showed "three fingers". A citizen of Zagreb, the capital of Croatia, Stefan Nemanja, was beaten by several brigands just because he wore the "compomising T-shirt of 60 years of Crvena Zvezda". And a huge array of weaponry was confiscated that was prepared for the Delije. Several Crvena Zvezda busses were even hit, and the most "original" attack on the Delije was a tiny rocket launch. The cheerers of Zeprešić have even sang several Ustaše songs! Remember what said Milan Jajčinović?

18. The State-of-Union of Serbia and Montenegro has requested from the Republic of Croatia that the Croatian government should pay a war damage in the amount of around 4,5 billion Euros: 2.000.000.000 for the lost years-of-service; 1.000.000.000 for the apartments; 420.000.000 for buisiness locals; 267.900.000 for houses; 244.500.000 for the furniture; 190.500.000 for the automobiles; 191.500.000 for the tractors; 190.500.000 for the cattle; 15.200.000 for ranges, 22.800.000 for electric ranges; 25.000.000 for washing machines; 22.200.000 for refrigerators; 22.800.000 for TVs; 8.800.000 for the heaters; other household artefacts were not counted. That would not be fer both as the number is too little, and it should not be payed to the SCG government but to US, after all, WE are the victims, not THEM. I have heard that there were several acusations that the number is far too high. If my father's house, our apartment (with artifacts and works of art dating from the Industrial Ages) and my Grandparents' house, together with all the forests, vineyards, olive trees, crop fields and animals (that were used for target practise) yield not much below 1.000.000 Euros, what do you think what is all-together? And were 380.032 emigrated refugess from 1991-1995 in Croatia; not counting several hundreds of thousands that are still concidered citizens of Croatia, only in refuge.

19. the Croatian journalist in New York, Jadranka Jureško-Keto, is a very vile person. She said: "The Serbs have (generalizing, again) Vuk Drašković in their politics who claimed in 1965 that Jasenovac was a gargantuan crime, and in 2005 that the Storm was a genocide operation." The intonation of that sentence was probably supposed to be sarcastic. In 1965. as she claims, Franjo Tuđman stopped Tito from raising the "600.000-900.000 victim memorial of the Jasenovac internment capm; and claimed later that the number was 28,000. The numbers of Jasenovac were over 50,000 CONFIRMED back then; and now, the number is around 80,000-100,000 althought the frequent researchers of many scientists (Croatian, Serbian, Bosnian, German, American, Russian, etc.) cross 300,000-350,000 and go as high as 700,000. She also wrote: "The Serbian "Veritas" claims that 250.000 Serbs were exiled and 2.500 killed in the Storm" (both numbers are very different and a little higher, actually) Then she wrote: "We Croats don't have Franjo Tuđman from 1965. so that he can negate even these false claims."

20. After Croatia lost to Serbia and Montenegro in (vaterpolo, pomozi) the Croatian trainer claimed that: "...we will be able to defeat the Serbo-Montenegrins as soon as 2007. if the team (and the state) don't fall apart before it."

21. in the night betwen 18th and 19th July this year Čedo (80) and Miljko (71) Medić were assaulted in their own homes and beaten in the Lišani Ostrovički. They are not safe even in a Serbian-populated town-village.

22. Borovo and Trpinja were mined several times (the areas populated by Serbs)

23. Dušan Karić was LINCHED in Karin near Obrovac. The Croatian authorities first claimed that the Serbs had done it in order to make the Croats the bad guys, then withdraw that claim.

24. 1.908 returners were on the list of thise who had to be arrested and judged for crimes. The number fell to around 1.400 after the Croatian authorities were forced to make a revision. S.K. was arrested in Baljci near Drniš, Belimir Stanković, the man whome he "harrassed" didn't identify him and he was released. S. Š. was acused of harrassing Croats in Ervenik near Knin in 1992. In 1993.togethor with 29 more people, he was acused and convictd for 10 to 15 years of prison. None of the acused were present on the trial. When he voluntarelz surrendered, the trial was led again, and ALL of the witnesses had changed their testimonies. He was released.

25. The Logic of Victory: A journalist bz the name of Davor Ivanković said: "The Americans threw nuclear bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki; the Soviets killed nearly 10,000 German refugees in the Baltic by sunking their boats; Winston Churchil had aproved the bombing of Dresden, a city with minimal military security and hundreds of thousands of German refugees; yet they all WON. Why couldn't Storm then, no matter of the casualties or exiled populace be concidered a Victorius operation?" Well, if he is still primitive like that, then why don't we send him to Alexander the Great of Macedon in the 4th century B.C., ad let him burn-down rebelling Thebes for Alexander and either kill in place, or take to slavery its citizens.

26. and yet the journalist Jasmina Popović speaks with words of both great wisdom and a little offensive to the Serbs. She said: "What to do with them: they can't go back, since they rebelled against their authorities and committed heavy atrocities, nor can they stay in exile!?"

HolyRomanEmperor 12:49, 25 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Srijem

Joy, why have You moved my article to Srem/Srijem? I don't want to unnecessarilly multiply the articles, but there is already the article with Hungarian name Szerem, then article with Serbian name Srem, why are You putting my Srijem under Serbian term (why the page isn't Srijem/Srem, this way is Srem on the first place?). Why can't we, the Croats, have a page, which has Croatian name? If You want to merge articles, You could've merge Szerem to Srem also. Generally, it should be Syrmia, which is international term for our Srijem.Kubura 13:53, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Template about name dispute

Please check Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:Macedonian_naming_dispute. Perhaps you can share your opinion and clarify the creation of this template. Thanks. MATIA 13:58, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Since you, Joy, were there "at the beginning" so to speak, can you explain for me why there is a template for the Macedonia naming dispute, but not for the Chinese, Samoan, or New Guinean naming disputes, to name a few. It seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that a well-organized clique dedicated to enforcing their viewpoint has subverted normal Wikipedia standards in this area. Is that right? Thanks for your time, Friejose 14:41, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I left a response on my talk page for you, Friejose 15:02, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Serbian point of view

Even if it is your opinion that the government of Croatia were "a group of unelected wannabe criminals", this is totally unacceptable in an encyclopedia article, and not in accordance with our Wikipedia:NPOV policy. It was previously dediced not to label any state "puppet state", as in the case of the German Democratic Republic and other states which were, from a western point of view, viewed as Soviet puppet states. Also, "attack" is not a neutral wording. Italy and Germany were allied with the King of Yugoslavia and the intervention was approved by the legal head of state. This needs to made clear in the article. I'm going to remove any POVs or attempts to rewrite history from Serbian POV which are inserted there. 83.109.161.6 14:44, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It is not for Wikipedia to decide which governments are "legal", which would have terrible implications and lead to endless disputes, and which have nothing with NPOV to do. The Croatian government was the actual government of Croatia, and we have to stick to it, just like we have to stick to the fact that the various communist governments of Eastern Europe were the actual government of those states, even if considered "illegal" by former or current governments. 83.109.161.6 15:03, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Concerning proposal

That should not be done because the computer that I (Zec) sometimes use has other users that might occasionally be editing on wikipedia Zec 23:00, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

== Sorry ==

I found that I accidently responded to you in the ICE section, :( sorry.

"During which time was it part of Duklja? I can't say I recall which exact period you are talking about. It's important because the Duklja before Stefan Nemanja was not actually very Serbian, saying it like that would be a distortion of another kind. --Joy [shallot] 11:56, 23 August 2005 (UTC)" If you want, I will give you a detailed mapped info about Dubrovnik and it's Serbia-Croatia relations. And what do you mean not mentioning Serbia before Stefan Nemanja??? It is a well-known fact that it was called Rascia (Raška) until the forming of Tsar Dušan the Great's Empire of Serbs, Arbanasses and Greeks, after which (although a feudal anarchic period until the Ottomans was in store) Serbia was the general name in use. And the union of Rascia and Bosnia (later inculding Zeta/Docleia and Zahumlje/Hum) is the concidered a first unified Serbia and that was even before Docleian Serbia.

And you missed my notes of the history of Croatia articles being rather far too short. A reader would think that Croatia is a war-torn country that was created in a civil war (by un-orthodox means) with "some ancient lineage" Where are Tomislav, Krešimir, Zvonimir, Mihajlo Pupin's legacy, Nikola Tesla, Grgur Ninski, Josip Runjanin, etc...?

A link to Montenegro and Serbia is still wanted, you know?

HolyRomanEmperor 11:01, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I know and understand everything you meant (by the way, you can freelly if you want stop being so polite in our discussions, I have seen by now that you are a good, truthful person; quitte opposite of Mir Hrven) but you should see some of his contributions. Even you told him, once "... I don't know even how do you expect to be taken seriously" on one matter. And I think that he is well, something at least a little more than a Croatian nationalist. He openly speaks about global Serbian fascism. HolyRomanEmperor 13:18, 29 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

And why do you not want to connect Duklja etc. with Serbia? Prince Petar Gonjiković (892.-917.), the ruler of Rascia, Docleia/Zeta, Travunia with Konavli, Hum and Paganija/Neretvia is generally concidered as the first known Serb leader/ruler. Then the Principality of Dalmatia, ruled by Princes Višeslav, Trpimir and Mucimir from 800.-910. and the Principality of Pannonia, ruled by Princes Ljudevit Posavski (819.-828.) and Braslav (880.-910.) cannot be concidered Croatian states? But everyone accepts these facts... I would like the links to Montenegro and Serbia in the Croatia article, please.HolyRomanEmperor 13:18, 29 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, now, what about the upper-mentioned? HolyRomanEmperor 13:36, 29 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the borders of Peter Gojniković's Serbia are the first know borders. Just give me several days and I will upload his country's territories. Why didn't you continue to read my very-long post??? HolyRomanEmperor 17:58, 31 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Either you're not there, or you're ignoring my posts. You put the link to Bosnia and Herzegovina in the Croatia article. The Georgaphy article is only leading to Serbia and Montenegro (I meant seperatly, as two different countries related to Croatia) There is the lets-say-from-a-foreign-point-of-view same language. The History of the countries is as close as Germany and Austria; and far more closer than England and America. Their mentioning is simply logical. I don't understand your need to make me more percise. HolyRomanEmperor 14:29, 1 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I apologize, my friend (I guess I have some kind of a phobia that you will forget about my posts :) ) I will wait as long as you want me to. Could you read Mir Harven's posts on talk page? HolyRomanEmperor 18:55, 1 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Mir Harven

For Gods' sake Joy-Shallot, this Mir Harven keeps speaking of total nonsence. WHat is wrong with thaat man??? He says that the WWII death toll was too high; that that Republika Srpska is an illegal state based on chetnik fascism and ideology of pro-serbism and ethnic cleansing! There are many other things... HolyRomanEmperor 21:57, 28 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Croatia is nothing but a fascistic and nationalistic state based on Ustaša ideology (the fact that the Croatian people is Croatian by itself and in many other factors, and can not be compared to any other nation in the world). The traces of Croatian extreme Croatian nationalism date back as far as the Chronicle of the Priest of Duklja, from the Docleian times, which has many un-accurate and false facts, probably some were even "slipped-in" recently and is generally, mainly fictional. The book "came-to-the-surface" and is accepted by many Croats only recently, probably because of the harsh Croatian nationalism. It is a lame fact such sources are "digged-out" only for national propaganda. Croatia was created by King Tomislav, who expanded the country significantyl and waged wars on its Hungarian and Bulgarian rivals. Tomislav was known as a protector of Serbs later; and his plans were probably encompassing the creation of a unified Sour Slav state (Sclavinia) first by acquiring all Serbian territories. But Tomislavć's enlightening rule cam to passč and the new Croatian rulers were harsh nationalists who executed several Serb officials that had fled from the Bulgars to Croatia with the Serbian Prince Časlav. Prince Časlav reconstructed Serbia, annexed the Prinicipality of Bosnia from the Kingom of Croatia (because its population was majorly Serbian and the local Serbs didn't like Croatia as a national monarchy), but died in combat with the Hungarians, tried to stop their advance across the Danube. Bosnia became an independant Principality and finally completly abandoned the primitive and age-old ways of Croatia, and paved the way for the creation of an important (Serbian, later also, to a point, Croatian) Realm. Later, Croatia became a part of the Kingdom of Hungary. It was ruled, during it's first several ages, by the Šubići (a dinasy which later became of Serb blood as well). The region later underwent a period of Hungarization and harsh feudalism, but gave little resistence to the changes of the order in Croatia. The situation was peaceful, at various time, oscilated. The Hungarian rulers moved a part of the Croatian nobilty to a region that they could more easily control and that would create a "living wall" for the Hungarian King, Slavonia. Croatian propaganda is again well know, as this common realm with the Hungarians is often know in Croatian as the Croay-Hungarian kingdom. And the Croatian historians mostly reffer to the fact that the Croatian nobility called the Habsburgs to come to power (it was actually the Hungarian) The Serbs, both the natives and those that are fleeing from the Ottomans, have proven to be exellent defenders, as is well-known that they were often reworded by the Holy Roman Emperors. The proposition of the official language of Croatia and Slavonia Serbian, was short-lived and almost never released. The Croatian politicians have deceived a plan how to use the Entente's opposition to the Alliance (Austria-Hungary was its part) and the tensions between Austro-Hungary and Serbia: the Yugoslav plan; which originally only meant a transition-government as a means for an independant Croatia. After World War I, Croatia and Slavonia became a part of the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs. Several Croatian politicians wanted an independant Croatia, and have even got approvements by several noted groups and factions from within the state. But due to Serbia's acquisition of Vojvodina, Montenegro and several Bulgarian territories, as well as the promises made for Bosnia and Herzegovina and several other Austro-Hungarian former territories to be joined as well, Croatia would be a very small independant political entity. So the Croatian politicians agreed with the Serbian Prime Minister, Nikola Pašić, to create the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. Soonly, the Vidovdan constitution was approved, which cancelled all historical provinces (but which had no real "autonomous" power) of the Kingdom (Serbia, Montenegro, Vojvodina, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Dalmatia, Croatia and Slavonia, the Slovenian Lands) The Croatian politicians strongly opposed this because the name of their "state" disappeared from the maps (even though so did, Serbia, Slovenian Lands, Montenegro...etc.) Stjepan Radić, a politician fighting for his Croatian people was assassinated by the extreme anti-nationalists. The there are the terrorist Ustaše, who fought with terrorism. When the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was created, soon after, the King was assassinated bz the Ustaše in coalition with another radical group (even thought the Yugoslavism dream finalz came to reality) in Marseilles (although this was negated by the Croatian authorites, because they didn't want to seem "terroristic"). The autonomous Croatia Banovina was created, an extremly pro-Croatian orientated part of Yugoslavia. Then, in World War II, the Croats committed the greatest crimes ever done (the Independant State of Croatia) on the History of former Yugoslavia. I don't need to mention the 1970s new separatistic Croatian attemps. Then, the war escalated with mass pro-Croatian anti-Serbist fascism and nationalism in 1991-1995, emulating with the greatest displacement of the population of Croatia in 1991-1995, when 300,000-400,000 left and many were brutally murdered. I have already noted the facts about the extreme present Croatian nationalism and fascism which goes on for the past decade.

			                                    Mir Harven mk II

Do you really think that normal persons will buy this rhethoric, elbeit "proven", nonsene (they are all "facts" according to Mir Harven's way of understanding them) HolyRomanEmperor 13:05, 2 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Rms125a@hotmail.com

I've added an incident on WP:AN/I about our mutual friend User:Rms125a@hotmail.com evading his 3RR block. Demiurge 20:10, 29 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Lawsuit removed from BXVI

Hi-yeah, along with Abraham Lehrer demand . Famekeeper 09:30, 30 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Vasco da Gama

An article that you've edited before (Vasco da Gama) is nominated for Article Improvement Drive. If you want go there and vote. Thanks. Gameiro 02:58, 31 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Re: Let me hear yo out

I cant wait to hear the rest of your replies (regarding my quitte long post).

Well, to avoid those early-mentioned problems, let's talk in English. About the anger-control, well, yes; just like when I was angry at you when you mentioned about those numbers of returners. My apartment was confiscated by the coalition of two extreme right-wing (demonic, but that is only my personla opinion) parties: the HDZ and HSP (of which the latter is terrifyingly extreme, as they called themselves Ustasas on several occasions. There is absolutly no quarrel that my apartment will stay in the hands of that dark, repulsive Janjevac lone-man which now occupies it; nor that a large population of my brethren will never be able to return.

Shurely you remember the 14 Croats that Tudman called personnally to return to the grandfatherland? Only two of them have a job. There are not only emigrants from Bosnia and Herzegovina, you know.

I stated that Sanja Top Show is rather very interesting, but it's previous episodes... during te Storm's celebration two-three years ago. One started with: "Good morning croatian citizens of the Republic of Croatia on this beautiful Croatian morning.

The "Oluja nad olujama" show was on HRT 1 (please re-read the sections about my village, Varivode)

You think of Gurovic. Yes, I don't agree with his tattoo; but I don't get the strong opposition of Croatian government of it. There are many citizens which have tattooed Ante Pavelic (which is, I think we both agree, far worse). By the way, recent researchings report that the Četniks killed mostly Ustasa (next to the Partisan, German, Italian, Hungarian, Albanian and Bulgarian) armed forces. But when it comes to civilians; the researches incline that they mostly killed Serb civilians, since they mostly opperated on Serbian-populated lands; and yet most Serbs supported the anti-monarchistic Partisans. About the de-Tudmanizacija process. I think that the de-Milosevicacija process has exceeded all neccessary levels in Serbia and Montenegro. In here, one of the two most powerful parties are DS (Demokratska stranka) and G17+; while in Croatia, HDZ (Hrvatska Demokratska Zajednica) and HSP (Hervatska Stranka Prava) are very influential. Please, not the adverbs in the parties' names. I can draw the HDZ-SPS and HSP-SRS line freely; although the Socijalistička Partija Srbije has absolutly no real importance in the politics anymore and the Srpska Radikalna Stranka lost the attempt to seize political power in the past elections; ending even her political importance, while HDZ simply won't give up. SPS sent Slobodan Milosevic to Hague and SRS sent Vojislav Seselj; both of their leaders. You get my point. In Croatia, the nimber of victims is minimized and the Ustasas proclaimed "no so bad after all" (look www.hrvatskiustaskipokret.com it is very powerful and influential). DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN A CERATIN CROATIAN POLITITIAN SAID THAT IN JASENOVAC, "Mala Florami" was held? While one the other hand, in Serbia and Montenegro, there are two very popular and influential (serbian, not to make a confusion) groups talking that the entire "srpstvo" has turned into a machination of pure and general evil towards non-Serbs. Every fridaz I here watch BBC - Srebrenica and every thursday (litterally every) BBC - Ervenik. The people here has absolutly no knowledge of the war itself. When I told my little three-zear-old cousin that he is a Serb, the first thing that he said is: "Why are we naturally evil?"

I might add, that one man from Varivode (which I knew), Gladovic, not so long ago (most of my examples date after the war) went to Zagreb, where he was "accidently" machine gunned. He got several bullets through his neck.

I would also like to hear zour opinion on the Holy marking of Krajina's fall in cathedrals every year (in which is the head of the Croatian Catholic church involed) . You know, the "thank yoo, oh God, for helping us cut off all seven heads of the seven-headed monster" etc.

There is absolutly no need for a History of Serbs or Serbs in Croatia article. The desired info could just be copied into History of Croatia and Serbs articles.

Look at the discussions in Croatia's talk page. There, under the username Shallot you said that much less than 100.000 Serbs left Croatia in 1995.

HolyRomanEmperor 18:03, 31 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Red and White Croats and Serbs

So, the White Croats inhabited regions a little west of Zadar and are most definetly ancestor's of present Croats.
The Red Croats inhabited the coastline regions of Zeta, Hum, Duklja and Travunija, although this is often sporadic because of De Administrando Imperio the fact that those lands almost immediatly became Serbian; and left to be that way for a long period of time, and that many Serb rulers come from those regions.
The original White Serbs are Serbs from Lužice in Germany, and their derivates came to roughly areas of Dubrovnik and a little west. According to Constantinte's De Administrando, they inhabitted Red Croatia.
The Red Serbs, are the long-extinct founders of Rascia (Raška)

You see, those facts are all too rough. So let us just count out the "Reds". Read http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/7681/origins.html This rhethoric nonsense actually makes sense and has proofs. But I strongly oppose it. It is impossible to claim such facts. HolyRomanEmperor 18:23, 31 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

the Serb Orthodox Cathedral Church of Saint Nicholas in Karlovac

Tell me, Joy; what do you know about this? Don't look up somewhere; just tell me what you about it. HolyRomanEmperor 18:30, 31 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Pagania/Neretvia

You might be interested in reading [[17]] It contains very interesting and detailed info; almost anything you want to find out about Neretvians. The reason why I am litterraly firing from an artillery placement posts onto your talk page is that I had returned from a 2-week vacation and my free time is slowly starting to run out. Don't get me wrong, take all the time on Earth you need to read them. HolyRomanEmperor 10:46, 3 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Pacta Conventa

Joy, you seem like the person to ask about this. There's a single article responding to query "Pacta Conventa" and it pertains to an event (or a couple of events) in Polish history (XVI century). I was thinking that a Pacta Conventa disambiguation page should be made. The article on the year 1102 mentions the event, but not by this name, and the History of Croatia refers to Pacta Conventa with no link, as there is no article. So, a disambiguation page and a little content copy-paste from Medieval Croatian state or just a link to it? Thanks. Damir A 03:24, 4 September 2005 (PST)

CHV

Since you posted on this stub, you might be interested in this. Str1977 22:55, 6 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Croatia-related stubs

Hi there,

I found it rather amazing that Croatia-related stub category didn't exist, especially becouse Croatia-geo-stub did. So I created it and started putting articles in it. And then I wondered if what I'm doing is OK. Becouse, hey, how come nobody came to the idea of making that stub category... And, moreover, I'm not quite sure what articles should be included in the category. So I turn to you for a piece of advice. I'm pretty sure that there are suposed to be in Croatia-related stub category: White_Croats, Liberalism_in_Croatia becouse they talk about Croatia or Croats as a nation, but then again, I'm not sure about this one: ISO_3166-2:HR, becouse this is primarily article about a standard, and I'm definitely not sure about these: Azra, Film (music group) as they were popular in former Yugoslavia. So, my question is: Is excesive stubbing bad? Meaning, if I have second thoughts about putting an article in a stub category, do I put it there or do I leave it out since we don't want to have articles that are in 5 different stub categories? I did a bit of searching and found lots of articles that could fit in Croatia-related stub category, but they already are in a stub category (bio stub, political party stub, ect...), so what do I do? Leave them alone or go and add them to Croatia-related?

And, then another question. Where do I ask questions and put notices concerning Croatia? :-) Say, I created this stub category and would like to inform other Croats on Wikipedia of it's existance, so they could re-stub their articles (I find it much more effective than searching myself or announcing on stub sorting project) or just be aware that the category now exists and can be used in the future. Or I just want to ask whether anybody would like to help with something regarding Croatia, or... well, I mean, Internet is all about communicating, so where do Croats comunicate on Wikipedia (or even, do they?)?

--Dijxtra 21:35, 7 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, my

I just saw one herzegbosnian .org site. I can't even believe that someone even makes that fascistic piece of nonsence. "pessimus dux Sclavorum" — najgori kralj Hrvata... appareantly someone either thinks that no one speaks Latin or his mind it so incredibly corrupted by mortal sins that they have to draw for every possible straw. I really feel sorry for the poor editors of that site... HolyRomanEmperor 13:55, 10 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The "Serbian" telenovela is exactly what I find strange (it makes me think that it is pointed out to give a choice to the people whether or or not they will watch something made by Serb hands) About James Bond; as I said, you can't find almost anything "Serb" or "Montenegrin" in here. I found it on several British intellegence refference websites, there is an article of him right here in wikipedia. Jureško~Keto is the main reporter for Croatia in the United States of America. I really donćt think that the capital of Zagreb is a back~hinterland (a man was linched there not long ago) Can't wait to hear from the rest of your replies... HolyRomanEmperor 17:04, 14 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to hear your opinion about the sacral marking of the Storm, still... HolyRomanEmperor 20:37, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yugoslav First League

Since we're the only ones editing that article (which isn't a bad thing :) ) I'll just make a section in here as your "mailbox" regarding that talk page. Please go see the Talk:Yugoslav First League. --Hurricane Angel 04:05, 11 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

On the Yugoslav Cup I noticed you left the section as (FRY), are you sure about that? I would like to see the Cup and the First League articles to be identical in their structure, so we should either move the FRY cup winners to SCG or return the FRY league champions to the league article. Know what I'm saying? --Hurricane Angel 21:47, 16 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for fixing the "wacko formatting", I was hoping someone would do that eventually... I'm not very good with tables :) --Hurricane Angel

OK

Yes, as much as bad as it may seem, the "blessing" is truthful. But, as is always, it is just an exception. I mean, you can't really generalize that during world war II the entire branch of the Catholic church in NDH collaborated?!?!!? I can't wait to hear from you about the other comments... hear from you soon. :) HolyRomanEmperor 15:17, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That about Mir Harven was just an analogy (I have just reverted his to thoughts completly to the other side, although keeping the same intensity) I would also like you to view up my other comments (especially about the lie including my village, Mir Harven is very reluctant on answering that one) HolyRomanEmperor 11:07, 19 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Eurobasket

Hi, I reverted your edit of Eurobasket 2005 page concerning the fact that Belgrade is the (only) host city. The thing is Belgrade was picked to be a host by FIBA Europe, not Serbia and Montenegro, logo and all other relevant material show that Belgrade is the host, and not the whole country. Also, when Belgrade was host in 1961 and 1975, other Yugoslav cities also hosted the competition.

Opening ceremony was held in Belgrade, all games from quarter-finals until the end of the competition are being held in Belgrade, only 3 out of 4 preliminary groups are in different towns. And of course, money matters - the organization was party financed by City of Belgrade, not Serbian or federal gov't. My analogy would be last Olympic games, where Athens was the host (and not Greece), but competitions were held in Salonica and Olympia as well.

Anyways, enjoy Eurobasket ;) Meelosh 22:47, 16 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

New stubs

Thanks for your note on making new stubs. {{Polymer-stub}} was listed at WP:WSS/P on 5 September 2005. Physchim62 08:06, 17 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

discussion of your changes in Masturbation

Any comments to Talk:Masturbation#some_changes_to_the_Masterbation.23Law_section?

Debian "releases"

Hi Josip. On Testing (Debian), you added that "Testing is not a release, because as soon as one snapshot of testing gets released, it loses this label and a new testing goes live." However, [18] refers to stable, testing and unstable as "releases". Obviously, this is not a traditional sense for "release" in the two last cases. Neither of us are native English speakers, so it may be harder to judge that. But supposing that keeping Debian and Wikipedia jargons compatible would be good, did you discuss the use of the word with Debian, or see a discussion about it? IMO, if Debian is at fault, it would be good to determine if the usage can be fixed so that we have clear ways to document.

Following your reply, it looks like you misunderstood where the word is most confusing : The top of the page reads : "Debian always has at least three releases in active maintenance: “stable”, “testing” and “unstable”." This has been the perhaps strange wording since as long as I can remember. The "Debian Releases" title acknowledges this is no error. It is also generally used for example on #debian to ask people which...distribution they use (Which release do you run?). Perhaps the general use in Debian only comes from that page. Since you seem to say that this is not an intentional use, do you think it's worth checking www.d.o bugs for a report about this, and open one if there's none?--Chealer 18:59, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I forgot to add..."distribution" is not necessarily better than "release". From Debian's first sentence : "Debian[, organized by the Debian Project,] is a [widely used] distribution". Several other sentences in that page consider Debian *a* (and therefore 1) distribution. But if Debian is a distribution... "The “stable” distribution contains the latest officially released distribution of Debian." could translate to "The “stable” distribution contains the latest officially released distribution of a distribution." This shows that distribution would have a somewhat ambiguous meaning. We know that the general meaning of "distribution" is the one as in "Debian is a distribution".

So what do you think? Should Debian look for a new word to describe testing and unstable? "Package pools" sounds pretty technical. Branch doesn't seem to fit for a distro.--Chealer 19:22, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sveta Nedelja

Zanima me izvor podatka da je Sveta Nedelja najveća općina u Hrvatskoj. Kako znaš da sam bio User:Jugoslaven? :) Luka Jačov 11:44, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ne znam, malo sam sumnjičav jer mi je nekako logičnije da se takva općina nalazi u rjeđe naseljenim djelovima zemlje. U svakom slučaju bi to trebalo provjeriti i napisati stvarnu površinu u članku. Luka Jačov 17:55, 23 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well...

Notification, your talk-page is heavily bugged. I suggest splitting or moving old discussions to the Archive HolyRomanEmperor 17:48, 3 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

'three' as a link

That's better; thank you. Tony 01:10, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Corpus Christi

Hi, Joy! As creater of Corpus Christi I was hoping you can help me out. In the opening paragraph, there is a link to Episcopal Church which is a disambiguation page. Can you offer any guidance as to where this should be directed to instead of the disambig page?? Help :-). -Roby Wayne ^{Talk • Hist} 05:13, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Great! I am glad to know I wasn't losing my marbles :-). I didn't think you added it, but I saw that you had originally authored the Corpus Christi article--so I thought I'd start with the beginning. Anyway, we'll just live it as a link to the disambiguation page where the reader can select which route they want to take. Thanks for your time!! >: Roby Wayne ^{Talk • Hist} 10:18, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This info

I want to add this info in Karlovac. I am doing so in the English version; but in the Croatian, some user Elephantus is keeping a strong ustaša-like regime. That about Jasenovac play, I think it was the President of Sabor, or something called like that, of Croatia.

- Cathedral Church of Saint Nicholas – built between 1785–1787. Iconostasis painted by Arsa Teodorovic and wall-frescoes by Dragutin Inkiostri Medenjak. Church served as storehouse for objects looted from the Serbs and Jews (1991–1945). Church twice damaged: during direct war operations in 1991, and by explosives outside the zone of conflict on Christmas, 1992. "...We entered the remains of the church from the south, because the narthex was demolished and the choir loft had collapsed, blocking the west-side entrance. The altar apse was completely demolished, falling towards the parapet of the iconostasis. The roof had fallen into the nave; beneath the beam in the middle of the church one can see the great chandelier; a part of the ceiling still remained... The inside walls lean outward. They could fall at any time... Everything in the church was demolished..." (Report of 2 September, 1992). Church completely razed in 1993.

- Diocesan Residence built in 1882 – housing a large collection of portraits of Bishops of the Diocese of Gornji Karlovac. Diocesan Treasury: from 1985 housing many icons, books and liturgical items, removed from Monasteries and Churches of the Diocese during the Second World War by Ustashas, returned to the Serbian Orthodox Church only in 1985. Diocesan Residence broken into, pillaged and destroyed. "On 25 December, 1993, at 0410 hours, following Midnight Mass on the occasion of Roman Catholic Christmas, a very strong explosion occurred in the Bishop’s See. The Diocesan Center was destroyed."

- The Diocese of Upper Karlovac comprises the most western Serbian territories: Banija, Kordun, Lika, Krbava, Gorski Kotar, as well as northern Croatia and Istria. It was named after the town of Karlovac, where its See is located. These territories have been settled by Serbians ever since the 15th century, and more intensely in the first decades of the 16th century. The main settlements were Zumberak and Bela Krajina, and then the areas near Gomirje and Gorski Kotar. During Turkish rule in central Lika (1528–1699), the Serbians moved to cragged, rugged land of Lika from Dalmatia, while Serbians from Bosnia settled mostly in Krbava. Many of them migrated from there to Austrian-held territories, i.e., to the area of the Vojna Krajina (Military "Buffer" Zone).

- During the 16th century, the spiritual life of Orthodox Serbians of this area was guided by the metropolitans of Dabar-Bosnia. The See of this Metropolitanate was at one time in Monastery Rmanj, at the tri-juncture of Bosnia-Dalmatia-Lika. When parts of Lika, Banija and Krbava, which had been to this time under Turkish rule, were liberated at the end of the 17th century, a separate Diocese of Karlovac-Zrinopolje was established (1695). The first Bishop of the Diocese was a refugee from Bosnia, Metropolitan of Dabar-Bosnia Atanasije Ljubojevic (1696–1712).

- In 1713, the Diocese of Karlovac-Zrinopolje was divided into two: the Diocese of Karlovac-Senj-Coastlands and the Diocese of Kostajnica-Zrinopolje. Danilo Ljubotina, Bishop of the former, founded his Episcopal Residence in Plaski. During the 18th century, the areas under Austrian rule were administered by the Bishops of Marca.

- Roman Catholic proselytism and forced conversion to the Uniate Church (recognizing the authority of the Roman Pontiff) were a constant danger for Orthodox Serbians within the borders of the Diocese of Karlovac. Proof of that religious aggressiveness is the fate of the Serbian people in Zumberak, forcibly subjected to the Uniate Church in the 17th and 18th centuries. In that disparate struggle between the Roman Catholic Church, supported by the Austrian Court and Army, the loss of Zumberak was inevitable. Moreover, the military authorities, under the advice of the Roman Catholic clergy, expelled Orthodox priests, denying the Orthodox Bishop access to these regions. In order to preserve the Serbians in the faith of their fathers and the spirit of Saint Sava, Bishop Pavle Nenadovic (1744–1749), later Metropolitan of Karlovci, founded a "Central School" in Plaski for the educating of young seminarians. Also through the efforts of this eminent Bishop a similar school was established in Zaluznice, near Vrhovina. Bishop Danilo Jaksic (1751–1771), a Hierarch of great pastoral devoutness and holy life, also worked hard for the enlightenment of Serbian youth. Thanks to his zeal, a school in Metka was opened.

- In the historic line of the Bishops of Karlovac the following are mentioned: Atanasije Ljubojevic (1688–1712), Danilo Ljubotina (1713–1739), Pavle Nenadovic (1744–1749), Danilo Jaksic (1751–1771), Josif Stojanovic (1771–1774), Petar Petrovic (17714–1784), Jovan Jovanovic (1784–1786), Genadije Dimovic (1786–1796), Stefan Avakumovic (1798–1801), Petar Petrovic Vidak (1801–1806), Mojsije Miokovic (1807–1823), Lukijan Musicki (1828–1837), Evgenije Jovanovic (1839–1854), Sergije Kacanski (1858–1859), Petar Jovanovic (1859–1864), Lukijan Nikolajevic (1865–1872), Teofan Zivkovic (1874–1890), Mihailo Grujic (1891–1914), Ilarion Zeremski (1920–1931), Maksimilijan Hajdin (1932–1936), Sava Trlajic (1938–1941), Nikanor Ilicic (1947–1951) and Simeon Zlokovic (1951–1990). The present Bishop of Upper Karlovac is Nikanor (Bogunovic).

- In World War II, Bishop Sava Trlajic of Upper Karlovac was martyred. The Bishop was arrested on 13 June, 1941, together with thirteen other prominent Serbians, among whom there were also three Serbian priests. They were confined in a barn belonging to an Ustasha camp-officer Tomljenovic, where they were tortured in various ways. When they were being beaten, the church hymn "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ…" (Gal 3:27a) was played on a record-player. From there they were taken by freight-train to Gospic on 20 June. Bishop Sava was allowed to say good-bye to his 83-year old mother, but with his hands tied and legs fettered. In mid-August of 1941, Bishop Sava Trlajic was taken to Mount Velebit, where he was, with numerous other Serbians, thrown into the pit "Jadovno".

- During World War II, the Diocese of Upper Karlovac endured an unprecedented spiritual genocide: 116 Serbian churches were destroyed, and 39 heavily damaged; two chapels were destroyed, along with 84 parish homes and other church buildings (53 being dynamited and 31 set afire). Church libraries and archives suffered the same fate: 154 archives were destroyed, 13 plundered. Out of 171 church and monastery libraries, 154 were destroyed while 17 were pillaged.

- This devastation of Serbian holy sites on the territory of the Diocese of Upper Karlovac continued even after the war. The places of worship which remained after the war, in general damaged and demolished, were totally destroyed on the strict order of "the People’s authority". Thus, the "People’s Committee of the Municipality of Udbina" on 22 March, 1960, addressed an official act to the Serbian Orthodox Church, i.e., the Diocese of Upper Karlovac, stating among other things: "Our People’s Committee of the Municipality, at its meeting of 14 July 1957, and on the basis of legal sanctions, has passed a decision concerning the destruction of what is left of the walls of buildings set afire during the war or demolished by other means… In reference to this, and as on the territory of this Municipality there are still a number of such walls of burnt down Orthodox churches (Josan, Mekinjar, Svrackovo Selo, Mutilic, et. al.), we have addressed ourselves personally to Your Diocese in Karlovac, with the demand that these walls be finally, after 15 years since the end of the Second World War, be removed, i.e., torn down. In the event that you do not undertake measures, this People’s Committee will be forced to do so on its own, and to demolish those walls at the expense of the above-addressee." This decision was signed by Bogdan Korac.

- The war of 1991–1995 added to this distress, thus continuing and confirming the continuity of the spiritual genocide on Serbian ecclesiastial monuments within the boundaries of the Diocese of Upper Karlovac. In the war from 1991 until 1993, five Serbian churches were demolished, and 18 damaged on the territory of this Diocese. Three parish homes were dynamited and seven damaged. Five cemeteries were destroyed. The Cathedral Church of Saint Nicholas in Karlovac, built during the period of 1785 to 1787, was dynamited by the Ustashas on Serbian Orthodox Christmas in 1992. The church of Saint Spyridon in Petrinja, dating from 1787, was destroyed by the Ustasha at the beginning of World War II; the new church was finished only in 1976. In the present war, this church was several times dynamited by Croatian nationalists, and finally on 12 August, 1991, razed to the ground. The Bishop’s Residence in Karlovac was shelled, plundered and finally destroyed. Thus on Saturday, 25 December, 1993, on Roman Catholic Christmas at 4:18 a.m., the See of the Diocese of Upper Karlovac was blown up by explosives. Within the walls of the Residence the Diocesan Museum Treasury, Archives and Library was located.

- Following the Croatian aggression on the Republic of Serbian Krajina, in August of 1995, the Serbian population of this ancient Diocese was driven out (many being killed), and their churches desecrated, damaged or destroyed. The 18th-century wooden church in Buzeta, near Glina, a unique example of church architecture, was burnt totally to the ground. On the territory of this Diocese, 11 churches were destroyed, while 45 were damaged during the war period 1991–1995. Eight parish homes and other churches buildings were also destroyed, while 14 suffered serious damage. Unfortunately, now that the Serbs have been expelled from this region, many churches and other buildings remain abandoned and exposed to the ravages of decay.

Proscriptions required

This is impossible! Everywhere I find vandalism and NPOV! In the Serbian wikipedia I had almost to declare a martial law under my undisputed rule, and start proscripting the entire site (like Cornelius Sulla, although I am not proud of it :)! Someone had even called Skenderbeg = Đorđe Kastriotić Skender Beg! I think that same violations are overflowing both English and Croatian wikipedias, too! Don't you agree? P. S. Can we make that History of Dalmatia article a little less pro-Croatian? HolyRomanEmperor 15:20, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Tagging the Daniel Coburn article with {crime-bio-stub}?

I noticed that you tagged Daniel Coburn with {crime-bio-stub}. I've written to the guy who created this stub, because I think it is so overly broad as to make it effectively worthless. They have been tagging Guantanamo detainees with this tag, even though none of them have been charged with any crime, in a real court of law.

Concerning your use of this tag -- you tagged Daniel Coburn, who was never charged with any crime -- but you didn't tag the Ilario Pantano, the guy he testified against, who had been charged with murder. Was this just an oversight? -- Geo Swan 10:34, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct. The Pantano article is no longer a stub. Thanks. -- Geo Swan 21:05, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hej

Za Croatia što si mi izbrisao: prim. => Općina Dalj\Опћина Даљ i u drugim mjestima (ćirilica u hrvatskom jeziku?) i vidi State mottos wikipedia članak koji kaže "Bog i Hrvati" kao hrvatski oficijalni moto. Možeš li srijedit Eparhiju Karlovačku za mene? Nemam više YUBC :( Puno hvala unaprijed. Sačekat ću malo, pa ću onda vratit moje promijene ako ti nećeš stići dotad. HolyRomanEmperor 17:01, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Pa, na hrvatskom je tako... :) No, šalu na stranu, ispitujem malo situaciju o Ruđeru Josipu Boškoviću i Ivi/Ivanu Andriću, i pravo da ti kažem, više ne znam ko je ko. Išao sam kod jednog Beogradskog univerzitetskog profesora koji otvoreno tvrdi da je Katarina Pejić bila Srpkinja (a to nije onako kao što su nas učili :) Dok s druge strane, dokopao sam (ugh, ovog puta validne izvore) da je Nikola Bošković bio Srbin. Malo me smara :( ali ako te interesuje iskucaću... A što se tiče Dalja, pretpostavljam da ono nisi vidio na televiziji prije... mjesec il' tako nešto; prikazana je Osnovna škola. U njoj predaju tri Srbina. Školski sabor je sazvan kako bi diskutirali o peticiji za otpuštanje tih profesora (jer, kako predsjednica tvrdi, ne žele da im hrvatska djeca poprime srpski akcenat :P ) Na snimci se vidjela jedna tabla (mislim da je ispred škole, ali ne smijem lupati gluposti) na kojoj piše Dalj/Даљ. A ti daj što možeš o onoj dvojici. Vjerovat ću ti kao i uvijek :) HolyRomanEmperor 18:06, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Popravio sam članak o Duklji, i stavio link za Ancient Doclea. Neko je pobrkao Bar sa Podgoricom (lokacija je ušće Zete i Morače). Stric iz Podgorice mi je e-mailovao još nekoliko linkova. (Da li se sijećaš ono davno kada smo diskutirali o asimiliranju? Imam primjer. Moj ujak je oženjen Hrvaticom, a djeca su im katolici — što misliš koje će b... koje su nacionalnosti? Vjerojatno će ujak biti zaboravljen za koje desetljeće, i porodica će biti stopostotna hrvatska, zar ne? plus to, moj ujak nema sinova; kapiraš što 'oću da ti kažem? asimilacija nije dug proces, već je ustvari trenutna...) HolyRomanEmperor 18:41, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ajd, ovde cu, mrzi me da to ide na sve strane... --millosh (talk (sr:)) 17:07, 27 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Otac/deda Rudjera Boskovica je bio srpski velikas. Ipak, Rudjer je bio Dubrovcanin. (Informacija od profesorke dubrovacke knjizevnosti sa Univerziteta u Beogradu, koja nije nacionalista.) --millosh (talk (sr:)) 17:07, 27 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Ivo Andric se sam deklarisao kao Srbin (informacija koju imam, izmedju ostalih, i od Mira Harvena). --millosh (talk (sr:)) 17:07, 27 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Nisam uopće imao pojma o toj drugoj strani priče. Zašto idioti uopće nisu i to stavili u prilog??? Što se mene tiče, ako ima očevidaca i dokaza, takvi ljudi bi trebali ići na sud. Što se tiče jezika. U Srbiji i Crnoj Gori stoji da su pored oficijalnog srpskog jezika, da se regionalno koriste i: albanski, madžarski, hrvatski, rumunski, rusinski i slovački; a u manjim mjestima i bugarski, njemački i poljski (no, samo Bugarski je lokaliziran i u statutu), kao i generalno da je u upotrebi i romski (ciganski). No, Hrvatska je za razliku od ove multi-etničke unije nacionalna država (od nedavno) pa ti to vjerojatno nećeš razumjeti.

Što se tiče Paganije, trebalo bi dodati link do one anarheologije; i mislim da se slažeš da bi isto trebalo da ima link do ... hm... bilo čega srpskog. Knez/Župan Petar Gojniković je vladao Paganijom kao jednom od više zemalja kojima je vladao (kao Karlo V nad Španijom i Njemačkim carstvom), dok je Knez Časlav Klonimirović Vlastimirović bio samo u dobrim odnosima sa Neretljanskom zemljom (imao je velikog utjecaja, otprilike kao Sovjetski Savez u Istočnoj Njemačkoj) I kao što vjerojatno već znaš, Časlav se sreo sa nekim lokalnim velikašima u Paganiji. Najvjerojatnije nije bila pod direktnom Časlavljevom vlasti. Znam da sam ti obećao slike, malo se odužilo, ali ćeš ih dobit uskoro. Slike su iz oficijalnog Historijskog Atlasa Jugoslavije, pa mogu da jamčim da je Petar Gojniković vladao Paganijom. Tek kasnije je Paganija pala pod isključivi hrvatski utjecaj, nakon što su njihove udružene mornarice pobjedile kod Makarske... (joj, koga ono biješe?) Možeš li ga pomenuti u članku o Paganiji?

U čemu je sukob oko Duklje? Grad je dobio ime po Doclei, gradu kod Podgorice. Tu nema sukoba, zar ne? A Bar nije bio centar Dukljanske vlasti svo vrijeme (valjda smo razjasnili, da je famozni pop vjerojatno pogriješio u mnogim stvarima) Kao prvo Bar uopće nije postao Dukljanski do druge polovine X vijeka, kada se centralistička dukljanska vlast prenosi iz Risana u Kotor. Baš u to vrijeme, jedini period kada je Dubrovnik bio srpski (!disputed subject), bio je Dukljanski centar. No, grad Duklja (Podgorica) je stara (prije velike Duklje) prijestolnica države Duklje. Bar, Ulcinj, Kotor i Dubrovnik su bili pripojeni u tom trenu. Bar i Skadar su bili izuzetno važni, ali nakon XI vijeka, Bar postaje glavni. No, nakon XII vijeka, grad Ras ujedinjene Srbije postaje glavni, i Bar gubi svaki politički značaj (zadržava religiozni). Postoje informacije da su čak i Trebinje bile važan Dukljanski centar (no, ako ideš kao Hrvatska po mijestu vladanja (Sisak, Knin, Biograd i drugi) onda moraš reći da je Ston najvažniji Dukljanski grad, jer je to bio Mihailov kraljevski stožer). Kada smo već kod toga, na Pelješcu (ovo sam već pomenuo) i dan-danas postoji mala srspka crkva (populacija). Oni se održavaju stare srpske tradicije i ponose se da "produžuju tradiciju Svetoga Mihaila". A i, mislim da znaš; Nemanjići su Dukljani (i probitno katolici) Stefan Nemanja je rekao da je uspio "obnoviti skoro cijelu djedovinu", jer nikada nije osvojio Dubrovnik (pozivao se na granice Petra Gojnikovića). Od njega, pa do cara Uroša V nejakog, Stefan postaje standardna titula za srpske vladare (jer je Nemanja to uzeo po Stefanu Vojislavu).

Osim toga, ne može se otvoreno reći da je nešto bilo srpsko tek do perioda za vrijeme i kasnije Nemanjića (i tada se država zvala Raška, a za vrijeme feudalne anarhije se ceo Balkan geografski zvao "Servia" - Srbija) Oficijalno ime Srbija je tek usvojeno krajem XVII-vijeka. Onaj ko kaže za Rašku da je Srbija, griješi puno. Duklja, Travunija, Zahumlje i Bosna su sve više "Srbije" od Raške, jer su vođe srpskih konfederacija dolazile prevashodno iz Duklje i Raške. Nemanjići i Vojislavljevići su Dukljani, no, deklarišu cijeli teritorij Raške i "Crvene Hrvatske" svojom djedovinom, i naglašuju, u slučaju Nemanjića, da je prijelaz na Pravoslavlje jedini način očuvanja svoje djedovine, jer je bila većinski pravoslavna, i primorje djelomično katoličko. Duklja je, za razliku od ostalih "Crvenih hrvatskih zemalja" za vrijeme podele 1054. bila pola pravoslavna i pola katolička, no pravoslavlje je skoro odmah zavladalo, a za vrijeme Stefana Nemanje postalo maltene 100%. Katolici su ostali kao većina u Dubrovniku. Kasnije, kako se Dubrovnik širio, širio se i katolicizam. Zbog fanatičke vjere Dubrovačkih vladara, samo je sićušna crkva na Pelješcu opstala do dan-danas. Stefan Vojislav se deklarisao da je podržavao "Orientalnu Shizmu". Konstantinopolj (Ortodoksna Šizma) i Rim (sjetiću se, zaborih kako se zvaše) su od 800. godine vodili hladan rat. Orijentalci Shisme su postali Pravoslavci, a ovi drugi postali Katolici. Nitko ne smije i ne može oduzeti pravo Hrvatskom narodu da svojeta Neretvane, no, za ove druge Slovenske se ne može isto reći. Skoro uvijek su bile vladane srpskim vladarima. Bile su sastavni dio Srbije skoro dugo koliko i Bosne (no, jedino ako želiš računati Bosnu i Otomansku okupaciju - autonomna Bosna).

Plus to, ako staviš na izbor: jedan katolički pop čiji identitet nije poznat, čije tvrdnje iznose činjenice koji očigledno ne mogu biti razmatrane kao historijske, i koji je po nekim tvrdnjama, Hrvat po nacionalnosti (dakle Hrvatski izvor, no nije dokazano jer nije sigurno da li je on uopće postojao na prvom mijestu); dok je na drugoj strani svijetski poznat Imperator Orienta, Romeja i Romejskog carstva, koji je poynat po mnogo više dijela nego taj pop (sa samo malo historijskih nesuglasica) i čiji su identitet, doba vladavine i života, kao i gomilu drugih stvari - potpuno poznati. Kada bi neko odabirao ismeđu ove dvojice, ja mislim da bi skoro svi odabrali Bizantskog cara. HolyRomanEmperor 18:18, 3 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Još jedna stvar. Kralj Mihailo je 1077. krunisan kao Rex Serviae. Jedini razlog zašto je to "sporadic" je zato što hrvatski nacionalisti odbujaju da prihvate dio svojet teritorije kao srpski, a još i centralni srpski (Ston). Takvo svojatanje je prisutno svugde, kao na primjer sa Ruđerom Boškovićem... Ivom Andrićem (ovaj drugi je obe nacionalnosti, ali hrvatski nacionalisti nahrvatskoj wikipedi-i odbijaju hrvatsko podrijetlo). HolyRomanEmperor 18:39, 3 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Nego, pitah te za Ivu/Ivana Andrića i Ruđera Josipa Boškovića ako nisi primjetio...

BTW, moja najbolja prijateljica Monika je s majčine strane miješana Srbo-Hrvatica (no, majka joj je katolkinja), a otac joj je Stjepan, potomak nekog (ne znam koji :( ) poznatog Vojvođanskog Bunjevca (možda ćeš naći zanimljivo da se on izjašnjavo u popisu kao Hrvat, a ne Bunjevac, a uopće ne voli Hrvate, govori kako su samo Bunjevci održali svoju tradiciju i čast :) HolyRomanEmperor 20:42, 27 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism

Please stop vandalizing articles. Wikipedia:NPOV is a policy that will be enforced. Also, there are no "private" pages at Wikipedia. By editing or creating a page, you specifically agree that the text may be edited by other users.

protect Bosniaks

Joy would you please, at least temporarily, protect the Bosniaks page? The edit war (& vandalism) on first paragraph does not seem to be stopped by itself. Duja 14:59, 4 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'd better not trip over myself

Hrvatska: I removed the text I'd added, until I hear back. --VKokielov 20:29, 4 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you...

... for this. Now I have to find where I did what I did before, and do what you did to them :-) —Phil | Talk 07:38, 5 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Croatian propaganda by "Joy"

Joy stop spreading your low-character propaganda on the article "bosnian church"´. You know very well that the bosnian church wasn't christian at all in any way, it's just a way of expression to call it "church". The bosnian "church" WAS NEVER accepted by rome as a christian church, the bosnian church was bogomil and disappeared since all the bosniak bogomils converted to islam. Your propaganda material is really lame.

Good

Odlicno, mogu li te onda zamoliti da stavis Ivu i Ruđera međ Srbe na hrvatskoj enciklopediji? Latin? Obožavam tog tipa. Prekinuli sa da ga prijenose zbog Haških suđenja, na žalost. :( HolyRomanEmperor

no YUBC conn. must be short. been in Greece. inf (in 1066) = Mihailo Vojislavljević of Serbia and Bosnia - Orthodox. Central Bosnia and western Serbia - Orthodox. Ragusian Byzantine province (ruled by Arsenios Kalathetos, Orthodox Greek) - Orthodox with the exception of the city itself. Hum and mid-western Bosnia - Orthodox. Zeta (ruled by Radoslav Vojislavljević, Orthodox) - majorly Greek Orthodoxs. Croatia (ruled by Trpimirovici, Frangepans and Subici) all Catholic except western Bosnia (ruled by Catholic Subici) which is Orthodox. HolyRomanEmperor 10:44, 8 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

During the reign of Stefan Nemanja (Orthodox) (1187. record) . Serbia and eastern half of the Seaside are Orthodox. Bosnia, central being Catholic, and southern being Orthodox (ruled by Kulin, Catholic) Croatia entirely Catholic with the exception of its hold of western Bosnia (Orthodox), which is ruled by Kosače. Western Seaside, at places Catholic, at places Orthodox, but more Catholic than Orthodox. HolyRomanEmperor 10:44, 8 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

During the reign of Stefan Dušan (1337. record) the Serbian Empire is Orthodox, while its most southern provinces are inhabitted by Greeks (Orthodox too) and its eastern-to-southeastern by Orthodox Bulgars (ruled by a Shishman, Bulgarian Orthodox). Bosnia ruled by Stjepan Kotromanić (Orthodox), Vladislav Kotromanić (Orthodox) and Nikola and Katarina Kotromanić (both Orthodox). While at that time, the majority of central, southern and western (entire) Bosnia was of mixed religeons, with Catholicism being the largest (in all three parts). The Banata of Croatia was entirelz Catholic (with several local Hungarian Catholic majorities). HolyRomanEmperor 10:44, 8 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Bosnian church - Bosniak bogomils

NO "joy" I don't want to understand anything you are saying since it all sounds so damn WRONG, the catholic curch is not a true source, since we all know that the catholic curch used to write falsehood about other religions in order to decline the other religion's identity. The bosnian church dissapeared as the turks came, IT DISAPPEARED SIMPLY because the bosniaks converted to Islam from their previous religion at that time BOGOMIL, but you do maybe believe that bosniaks where christians before converting !! BUT They never were and you know this, the bosniaks don't have anything christian in their history...Kulin Ban himself was bosniak and declared himself as bogomil in his writings...when will you realize that your lives are a big LIE.

how do you manage that? ;)

You're consistent, and at the same time one day you're a Croatian terrorist and the next, Serbian.

Wheeeew.

Where is their gratitude? Zahvalnost. Blagodarnost. Whatever we call it. --VKokielov 02:04, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, my talk page is slowly talking its turn into a nationalist propaganda location :(. Anyway, I am studying those infos up-mentioned, because I have doubts that Stjepan Kotromanić was Orthodox, I will inform thee in a day or two. HolyRomanEmperor 10:55, 8 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

King Mihailo of Doclea

I think you will find this rather interesting:

File:Mihailo.jpg

HolyRomanEmperor 16:17, 9 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Jedan ti novi Hrvat (A Croat for you)

Robert Luketic Robert Luketić

I think you should leave the redirect on the diacritic variant - but it's, of course, up to you. --VKokielov 00:47, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Finally

I have finally got the pictures that I promised you. I will upload them soon. I have also noticed that Croatian language is back official in the Republic of Dubrovnik. P. S. Where/how've you been these past days? HolyRomanEmperor 17:22, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Clarifications

De Administrando Imperio does not mention Travunia and Zachlumia as a part of Serbia. It mentions Travunia and Pagania as a part of the Principality of Prince Časlav Klonimirović Vlastimirović. HolyRomanEmperor 20:18, 18 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Tvrtko se smatrao naslednikom Nemanjića i vjerovatno je htio da se loza nastavi sa njim. To je razlog zašto sam ga stavio tamo. HolyRomanEmperor 20:33, 18 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Novakovich

I added your name-sake Josip Novakovich. I don't think his name warrants a redirect at all.

I'm sorry they spell their names wrong. ;) --VKokielov 22:13, 19 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't find out anything new :) You must have misunderstood me. It seems that you think that my life's goal is to distance away Dubrovnik from Croatia. I don't. I only want the Serbian influence to be remembered as well. The dialect spoken in Dubrovnik is Serbian, and (even Ljudevit Gaj claims that) the reformed Croatian was based on the Serbian language. HolyRomanEmperor 12:45, 20 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Duklja and other

Sources in here (hundreds of years old) claim that his name at the crowning was Stefan Tvrtko I Nemanjić. He didn't want to continue the Nemanjići dinasty. He did :) HolyRomanEmperor 12:49, 20 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Clarifications: DAI claims that Prince Časlav ruled over Travunia and Pagania, not Travunia and Zachlumia. HolyRomanEmperor 12:50, 20 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Will you clarify the Duklja and similiar articles (Travunia and Pagania, not Travunia and Zachlumia) Are there 430,000 Croatian Germans in Germany? HolyRomanEmperor 20:19, 20 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Will you clarify the Duklja and similiar articles (Travunia and Pagania, not Travunia and Zachlumia) P. S. Are there 430,000 Croatian Germans in Germany? HolyRomanEmperor 20:19, 20 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I am out of YUBC (I wonder myself how can I even post here). Could you do it? HolyRomanEmperor 19:08, 21 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The reason why I posted that picture is that according to www.njegos.org, it depicts Mihailo receiving the Pope's insignia. P. S. Did you see the info that I posted to you that I had collected from Greece (regarding religeon of lands and rulers)? HolyRomanEmperor 20:20, 21 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I can't understand your opposal to Stefan I Tvrtko Kotromanić being regarded as a Nemanjić... HolyRomanEmperor 20:24, 21 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Your Highness, Grand Turk, o Supreme Chancellor of the World,

Look at the bottom of Ashkelon: "The name shallot derives from the city's name." :D --VKokielov 01:44, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That's Mark Twain's line from "The Facts in the Case of the Great Beef Contract."

I only thought that you would be interested :( Besides, I found out the international name for Zahumlje - Zachlumia. About Mihailo: [19] (the lower is the description of the painting) although, I fail to see anything on the pitcure :S HolyRomanEmperor 12:09, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The reason is the splitting of the two churches. The line went cross present-day Albania, crossing Kosovo, cutting a third of central Serbia and seperating Vojvodina (continuing then across Wallachia) I think that it is obvious. The splitting was made ridiculously. Luckly, you can't change the rulling family's religeon :) (or can, like with Stefan Nemanja) HolyRomanEmperor 12:25, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

About Vlastimir, we know. He is descendant from the dinasty that ruled excplicitly Rascia, but his realm also included Bosnia, which, with Croatian interregnums, was together with Rascia the default Vlastimirović domain. HolyRomanEmperor 12:57, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

vlastimir is the descendant from the traditional rulers of Rascia, we know that he included Bosnia. Rascia with Bosnia (which was also at various times Croatian-controlled) where the default Vlastimirović domain. HolyRomanEmperor 13:02, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

His heirs, Stefan (870-874) and Petar (892-917), expanded their rule over Travunia and Pagania, whcih then until the dinasty's extinction became it's traditional domain (a part of Serbia). HolyRomanEmperor 13:05, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Mutimir's reign (who actually never ruled, between Vlastimir and Stefan) signified total anarchy, failure. During his reign Trpimir captured Bosnia, while other lands were split by Byzantines and Bulgarians... (you get the picture) HolyRomanEmperor 13:09, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Petar Gojniković Vlastimirović (892-917) was the first Confederate Serb ruler (he founded the title Grand Prince of All of Rascias) He ruled Rascia, while all four states of the Seaside were subjected to him (he subjected Doclea and Zachlumia, while also giving special vassalage statuses to Travunia and Pagania). HolyRomanEmperor 13:13, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

As the Bosnian chieftains saw this as a weakness, they invited Tomislav to annex them. Tomislav was crowned as King and had a central rule, which satisfied the Bosnians. To satisfy the Bosnian nobility and gentry, Tomislav also gave Bosnia autonomy. Vlastimirovići lost Bosnia. HolyRomanEmperor 13:15, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The next ruler was the third (after Stefan and Petar) that was Christian, Grand Prince Pavle Branović Vlastimirović of All of Rascias (917 - 910). He ruled the same as his predecessor, although brought a little more centralisation. HolyRomanEmperor 13:59, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The next was the last Rascian-Serb ruler. Grand Prince Časlav Klonimirović Vlastimirović (927-950) He was the strongest. After Tomislav, the Croatian kingdom became increasingly weaker, so the chieftains of Bosnia seperated and returned to Časlav (Rascia). Časlav nominally ruled Travunia and Pagania, too, since it is known that he resided in those states. He used his Grand princely title to control Doclea and Zachlumia too. Although, the places over which he exerted control were Doclea and Travunia. HolyRomanEmperor 14:04, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Dubrovnik, Kotor, Bar and Ulcinj were Byzantine enclaves that had to pay taxes to the Serb confederate rulers (before that to the local areal rulers) and they governed the cities in Byzantine Emperor's name. Much like Tomislav with Trogir, Split, Zadar and the Dalmatian Islands (Krk, Cres, Rab.... etc.), only king Petar Krešimir IV fullz incorporated those lands into the Croatian kingdom. HolyRomanEmperor 14:10, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Dubrovnik, Kotor, Bar and Ulcinj were Byzantine enclaves that had to pay taxes to the Serb confederate rulers (before that to the local areal rulers) and they governed the cities in Byzantine Emperor's name. Much like Tomislav with Trogir, Split, Zadar and the Dalmatian Islands (Krk, Cres, Rab.... etc.), which were later king by Petar Krešimir IV fully incorporated those lands into the Croatian kingdom. HolyRomanEmperor 14:10, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

While we are there, you should look at Medieval Croatian state, it says Petar Krešimir IV ruled the Seaside: Pagania, Zachlumia, Travunia and Doclea(!) Delete that, please. HolyRomanEmperor 14:12, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You asked for a reference about Tvrtko: [20] HolyRomanEmperor 17:58, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I hope this gives you some clue on the House of Vojislavljevići. HolyRomanEmperor 13:33, 23 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

( I just saw Croatia, and user:Elephantus had returned the article to status quo like it was when I first arrived to this encyclopedia (remember the Dubrovnik part etc.?) HolyRomanEmperor 22:04, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Something is rather strange. I discovered that Stephan Kotromanić (and his next-in-line, also Stefan) were (Serbian) Orthodox Christians. What's more, I now discovered that Tvrtko I is also... Sites like that herzeg-bosnian have silently changed to exclude parts claiming his Catholicism, and decided only to incline his possibility of being Orthodox in one tiny part :S (I am confused...) HolyRomanEmperor 22:34, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Vlastimirović, not Vojislavljević, sorry. HolyRomanEmperor 21:49, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You should know a thing: in Demographics, it says that Serbia has 140,000 refugees from Croatia and Bosnia. It doesn't. That is from Croatia number only, and it variates from 140,000 up to 150,000. HolyRomanEmperor 17:59, 5 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Republika Srpska

Joy. If you have the ability could you please lock the article Republika Srpska. You would not believe the level of nonsense being talked about on discussion page. Thanks --Dado 22:00, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Pozdrav Joy, vidim da te je Dado kontaktirao. Jednostavno ja pokušavam od članka Republika Srpska napravim jedan neutralan članak koji neće biti uvredljiv za bilo koji od 3 naroda koji žive u Republici Srpskoj. Nisam imao ranije vremena time da se bavim, ali imam sada. Radi se o tome da sam istoriju Republike Srpske prebacio u nov članak - History of Republika Srpska. Pošto je najviše sukoba oko editovanja do sada bilo upravo oko istorijske sekcije, ideja je bila da ove sukobe bar preselim u taj nov članak i time sprečim ove stalne revert-wars oko članka Republika Srpska. Međutim, čini se da je to izazvalo nove revert-wars, jer mi se čini da gospoda Dado i Emir nisu zainteresovani za ozbiljnu diskusiju već za širenje propagande, koja ima za cilj stvaranje unitarne države BIH. Na strani za razgovor kod Republike Srpske sam to lepo objasnio. Ja nisam neki velikosrpski nacionalista koji želi nekavu veliku Srbiju, samo me boli ova nepravda prema srpskom narodu u Republici Srpskoj. Smeta mi to da se bošnjački nacionalizam toleriše i čak odobrava ovde. Moj cilj kod ovog članka je da članak bude zaista neutralan i da ne bude uvredljiv za bilo koga. Isto tako da se u članku ne nalaze navodi koji podržavaju ekstremističke ideje, bilo ideju velike Srbije, bilo ideju unitarne Bosne. Prema ustavu, Bosna je država 3 naroda i dva entiteta, i jasno je da ovakva vrsta propagande protiv bilo kog od ovih naroda ili entiteta nije prihvatljiva prema politici Vikipedije. PANONIAN 01:37, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Joy, evo samo da ti pokažem da Dado ili njegovi drugovi brišu moje postove sa strane za razgovor. To je očit primer vandalizma:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Republika_Srpska&action=history

PANONIAN 10:51, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Croatia-related_topics_notice_board

Hi there,

You proposed creating of WikiProject Croatia to me, but I thought I would a overkill... now I found out about this RWNBs and it seems to me that Croatia-related_topics_notice_board would be acceptable solution, since I see there are some active Croatian wikipedians, and I think we might profit from coordination which would be possible with Croatia-reated RWNB... What do you think? --Dijxtra 22:51, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Rotacija

Kako zarotirat sliku? Luka Jačov 18:29, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

South Slavic languages category

Number of articles on South Slavic languages is now pretty high and I'd like to add Category:South Slavic languages as subcategory to Category:Slavic languages, possibly with subcategories on individual languages. The catch is, I don't know how :-) -- could you point me to relevant Wiki links or start the job yourself and let me finish it? Duja 08:28, 11 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I see Joy's bussy, so I'll give you a hint. Say you wan't to transfer Croatian language from [[Category:Slavic languages]] to [[Category:South Slavic languages]]. You edit the article, find the line that says "[[Category:Slavic languages]]" (it's probably somewhere at the end) and, change it to "[[Category:South Slavic languages]]". Than you save the article. And that's it. (I did it now, so you don't have to move Croatian language, you move all of the others ;-) ) Now, the problem is this category doesn't exist. So, I'll create the Categories you need for you, so you can fill them out for practice. There, I created 3 new categories for you: Category:East Slavic languages, Category:West Slavic languages, Category:South Slavic languages. Now you move the languages to their categories :-) --Dijxtra 14:29, 11 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I already figured out the first part, although I didn't know (and still don't :-( ) how to create the category. I'll probably do it on Monday (thank God it's Friday (TM)). Should I replace [[Category:Slavic languages]] or merely add, since it's a subcategory already?

Replace. If x is subcategory of y, and if you add article to x, you remove y. --Dijxtra 15:45, 11 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Pomoc neupucenom :)

E, da te zamolim (mozda znas neku precicu u odnosu na citanje obimne dokumentacije :) ) kako (i da li) traziti zastitu strane ako ona ne treba da bude menjana? U pitanju je sors emaila koji stoji u mom imenskom prostoru ([21]), a koji predstavlja (delimicnu) dozvolu za objavljivanje sadrzaja tri sajta koja su posvecena albanskoj kulturi. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 22:41, 13 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Have you got free time for our old talk? HolyRomanEmperor 17:03, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Have you got free time for our old talk? HolyRomanEmperor 17:06, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Bleh

The Balkans is an ugly place...Woe be me for ever sticking my head in! ;)

Well. I'm hard pressed to sort the wolves from the sheep sometimes, that's all. Especially when the wolf happens to have some sheep in him. --VKokielov 02:06, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Bosnians

Care to take a look at Bosnians page and try to settle things down a bit? I tried to make sense of it but ultimatively I gave up from the nationalists' revert wars. (I understand that I'm being hypocritic for asking you to do something that I'm reluctant to touch :-D ). Duja 13:00, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, and hello!

1) One of my best friends is from Split. 2) Thanks for contributing to at least one of my initiated entries. 3) "Shallot" Tennyson reference? --Benn M. 10:23, 25 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

So what does shallot mean?--Benn M. 01:54, 4 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

History of Republika Srpska

Joy

Could you please take a look at the History of Republika Srpska article. Other administrators have tried to fix the situation, but I feel that its imperative that someone who truly understands the situation, like you, oversees it. Asim Led 19:13, 25 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Liburnia

Hi Joy, I jave a question on Talk:Liburnia you might be able to answer. Peace, Alexander 007 23:24, 25 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Mapa kneževina

Zašto sam zamenio mapu? Zato što na drugoj mapi ima grešaka i lakše mi je bilo da jednostavno zamenim mape, nego da sređujem ovu drugu u fotošopu (a ne vidim šta fali onoj prvoj). Dakle, koje su greške na drugoj: rečni tokovi su presečeni, a i brisanje linija nije baš najbolje urađeno. Čak mislim i da samo brisanje linija nije baš najbolje rešenje. Video sam tvoja dva argumenta za to: 1. da se ne znaju tačne granice iz tog vremena, pa prema tome ne treba ni linije da budu tu, i 2. da su granice Zahumlja bile drugačije. Što se prvog argumenta tiče, sasvim je uobičajeno na istorijskim mapama da se crtaju linije tamo gde se ne znaju tačne granice, jer linija u tom slučaju predstavlja približnu granicu, a ne potpuno tačnu. Izuzetak od ovog je recimo euratlas (primer: http://www.euratlas.com/big/big0800.htm), ali to je loš način prezentacije, jer prostor između tih država sigurno nije bio prazan. Bolje je imati liniju koja pokazuje približnu (makar i delimično netačnu granicu), nego imati fiktivni prazan prostor (koji u stvari nije bio prazan). Ja imam nekoliko istorijskih mapa koje prikazuju ove 4 kneževine, i na svakoj postoji linija između njih. Prema DAI, one su se naslanjale jedna na drugu, i mislim da zato ne treba da crtamo neki nepostojeći prazan prostor. Što se tiče granice Zahumlja, na ovim mapama što sam pomenuo, granica Zahumlja je različito nacrtana. Zašto tvrdiš da je ovde netačna? I kako ti predlažeš da se poboljša mapa? PANONIAN (talk) 14:38, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, imam ideju kako da prepravim mapu: prepraviću je i uploadovati novu verziju, pa onda reci šta misliš. PANONIAN (talk) 15:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Message from HRE

Hello and welcome back, my friend! I am afraid that I must ask a favor from you, I have been blocked for 24 hours by User:Chris_73 a while ago. As you can see on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR I have violated the 3RR wiki rule, but if you see carefully my 4 reverts, you will see that I only returned the Serbian language in all four, and differently (so it isn't really a revert) plus, I have been reverting the enexplained changes of a certain User:Emir_Arven. So, I think that I have more that sufficient grounds for an appeal to my block. And I am asking you to start the process of my unblocking (since I cannot, and you are an administrator). This is an urgent matter. I can't wait to hear from you. Good luck. --Sasa Stefanovic 15:12, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This is from HRE too : Tell me whar you think about my articles Duklja, Zeta (state) and Zorsines. --Sasa Stefanovic 15:29, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Odobrenje, Holi, Sasa i nalog

Sto se tice odobrenja, kako ti kazes da je obicajno pravo na engleskoj Vikipediji. Uzmimo, meni je logicno da se strane kao sto su tekst licence, tekst odobrenja i sl. cuvaju zasticene. Sa druge strane, nije neophodno, to stoji. Ionako vodim racuna o tome, a postoji i istorija. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 23:10, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Holi i Sasa nisu iste osobe :) Sasa ti je prenosio ono sto je Holi pisao na IRC-u :) --millosh (talk (sr:)) 23:10, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Cuj se sa Stemom da ti otvori nalog na serveru da ne bi sifre isle preko neta. Kad vec postoji mogucnost da se to uradi putem telefona :) --millosh (talk (sr:)) 23:10, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

E da, nisam ja taj za kojeg me smatras ;D on je dosao juce na IRC i zamolio me da ti ostavim poruku jer je on blokiran, i rekao je da veruje da ces mu pomoci jer te 4 izmene nisu iste kako on govori. Pogledaj jos jednom ako mozes da li je stvarno tako. --Sasa Stefanovic 02:01, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This page HAS to be archived, Joseph. Mi and I have warned you several times by now (just a friendly reminder) :S And, just look at these pages Petar Petrović Njegoš was a Serb and then the page was vandalised by Emir. Then, we had Mesha Selimovich a moslem Serb writer, who is now a Bosniak that considered himself a Serb for the last 11 years of his life. Not to mention the Montenegrin anthem. And he keeps acusing me of everything! HolyRomanEmperor 15:35, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Isto, dodao sam nesto tamo o onome sto si ti stavio o Dubrovackoj republici, prijatelju. HolyRomanEmperor 15:44, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Tamo o historiji Hrvatske bi trebalo nagovijestiti da srpki izvori tvrde 250,000 izbjeglica za vrijeme Oluje, a da hrvatski kazu 50,000-90,000. No, isto treba reci da bi 200,000 bila najtocnija cifra ([22] i [23]) tebi cu to ostaviti... HolyRomanEmperor 15:48, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know?

That King Tomislav, Ljudevit Gaj, Josip Juraj Strossermayer, Stipe Šuvar and Latin (Ivo Andric is generally considered a Serb) are the most loved Croats among the Serbs?

...that De Regno Sclavorum (the Chronicle of the Priest of Duklja, Barski rodoslov)

claims that the Serbs built Dubrovnik (which later merged with Ragusa)? HolyRomanEmperor 16:04, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

...that Ivan Gundulić considered Alexander the Great of Macedon a Serb. HolyRomanEmperor 17:29, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

...that De Administrando Imperio and other sources keep Croatian continutinity in Singidion until Srijem's loss to Bulgaria in 926-927

Evo prepravio sam mapu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Principalities02.jpg

Reci šta misliš. Nema linija, ali ni praznog prostora između, nadam se da je ok kompromis? Ako je ova mapa ok, prepraviću i ovu drugu tako:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Serb_lands04.jpg

PANONIAN (talk) 00:28, 29 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Moja korisnička strana

Evo druga mapa će verovatno sutra biti gotova (ima dosta posla oko nje). Nego, imam problem sa mojom korisničkom stranom, sa šablonom jezici. Prvo su se hrvatski i engleski nalazili na levoj strani, a kada je Jovan probao to da mi sredi, hrvatski se vratio u kutijicu, ali engleski je i dalje levo. Da li možeš to da mi popraviš ili da zamoliš nekog ko zna to da popravi da mi to sredi? PANONIAN (talk) 23:22, 2 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yugoslavia

I know nobody gives a shit, but think this [24] might help matters when it comes to all them nat'nalists? --VKokielov 06:09, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hello!

I have read many articles pertaining to Yugoslavia and (primarily about the Yugoslav wars during the 1990s) and i am fascinated. Why? I'm not really sure, i just want to know more of where i come from (for you see, i have traced my roots back to Croatia and i have become increasingly interested in Yugoslavia and all things pertaining to it). Oddly enough i even picked up a book about Balkan politics when i really dislike politics in general. Although I must say, reading about the former Yugoslavia during the 70s and 80s was an overwhelming experience, and to read about the downfall and disoulvement of it during the 90s, it really hits a chord somewhere, but since I am unable to directly talke with those who have either lived it, experienced it, or just listen to stories about it, so who betetr than someone who hails from there? Eh, what im basically asking is what is it like? What was it like? It dissapoints me that although people were able to put aside differences long enough to form a country that to me seems grand (at least from what i have read and interpreted) to a gorup of people who seem too prideful and arrogant (and in some ways a bit selfish, depending on what regions they come from) that they ruin a perfectly good country go to ruin andcause an unneeded conflict. Plus i also hope to see if i can somehow track down any (if there are any) relatives that might not have come to America.

Xns

It's not quite so simple; but simple enough is the fact that the Western perception of the Balkans as a safari is wrong. --VKokielov 16:49, 7 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I know this, although what i have read has been really westernized, this is why i am asking someone who lives there. This way, you will get a much more accurate image of it all. Although i must admit, the west does kind of sugar-coat some things here and there. Xns 17:21, 8 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Popis hrvatskih gradova

Ispravio sam popis hrvatskih gradova. To su zadnji podaci, a ako te zanimaju općine njih imaš abecedno ili po županijama.

Pozdrav, Andrej Šalov 18:39, 9 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

EffK is forced to Abandon a Corrupted Wikipedia

I refer you to my response of a few moments ago at 15 December [[25]],http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/EffK/Evidence#3_December_2005 EffK 02:40, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Puting free images on wikipedia

Hi there... Just curious, why are you putting free images (like this one) on wikipedia instead on commons? --Dijxtra 16:42, 17 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

forgotten answers

Nah, I've just re-checked the source. That part was just (Greek) Orthodox propaganda; all Kotromanics were Catholics, they just asumed a strict pro-Orthodox attitude after Tvrtko (crowned in Serb Orthodox monasteries). By the way, you gave no answer should Tvrtko be put amongst the Nemanjics in List of Serbian rulers, so I did not change it. HolyRomanEmperor 17:55, 23 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Aleksandar Karađorđević or Alexander, Crown Prince of Yugoslavia

Any comments? Zocky 20:51, 24 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hrvatski maternji, Srpski srednje :) joj umrecu od smeha

OK, hajde molim te objasni mi kako to moze Hrvatski da ti bude maternji jezik, a kazes Srpski umes da pricas samo srednje? Bilo bi lepo da malo iskuliras sa guranjem hrvatskog nacionalizma i tisuceljetnog sna, a ako to ne mozes, onda bar malo iskuliraj sa anti-srpskim komentarima koje nevesto sakrivas optuzujuci Srbe za NPOV.

OK, could you please explain how it is that Croatian is your native tongue, and you state that your knowledge of Serbian is only at a medium level? It would be nice if you could chill out with the Croatian nationalism, and if this is not possible, then cutting down on the anti-serb comments, which are disguised as accusations of NPOV in Serbian users' articles, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, and I hope that you accept this obviously true comment the way your, often justified, and always much appreciated, contributions to Serb-related topics have been accepted. Finally, I include the English translation, just in case you didn't understand the Serbian:) Get over it, it's Serbo-Croatian or Croato-Serbian, no matter how hard you try do deny it. --Bora Nesic 03:50, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

TfD nomination of Template:Infobox Biography

Template:Infobox Biography has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:Infobox Biography. Thank you. DreamGuy 07:20, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I remember you asking proof on Serbs in Dubrovnik

... in the 18th and 19th centuries. Please read this: Srpska društva u Dubrovniku. Please bear in mind that I only wish to point the presence od Serbian culture there during that period of time; and respect it as much as I respect the Croatian culture in Vojvodina (this is actually not meant for you, but for those who see this post and attack me with a knife and acuse of being a Greater Serbian nationalist :) Hear from you soon! --HolyRomanEmperor 19:25, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Gle tko se vratio

Evo a ja sam gotovo izgubio nadu!

Stekoh prijatelja, i to na vašoj strani. Naime stekoh hrvatskih prijatelja. To jest, stekoh Elephantusa. Znaš ga?

Oh, i postadoh administrator na srpskoj Wiki. Velike li časti. ;) --VKokielov 02:32, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Evo malo gore vidim da dok nisi bio prisutan, postao si i hrvatski nacionalista. Jok.

Oni svima daju administratorstvo, ali to ne znaci da ja uzimam slobodu u ovom pogledu. (Hey, Romanm sa slovenske je postao administrator tamo, pa sto ne bih i ja?) --VKokielov 02:51, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Falio si nama kad smo gurali zatvaranje srpskohrvatske Wiki, jer ona je postala Pokrajcev playground, barem donekle, u smislu da on i njegovi sakupljaju tekstovi s srpske enciklopedije i bez ddrugog pogleda ih stavljaju tamo. To, naravno, prilicno ljuti srpskih administratora. Bio je vote o zatvaranju, ali eto nismo imali "konsenzusa":

[26]

Još jedna stvar. Dok nisi bio ovdje, uhapsili su Gotovinu. Možda znaš? ;(

Sada može odlanuti. Teret je odavle naprijed na drugoj strani. --VKokielov 03:00, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Answer bit-by-bit :)

Dakle, mogu ti sigurno tvrdit što je s Tvrtkom. On se krunisao u Mili 1377 godine, a kasnije iste godine u Mileševu, gdje je potvrdio svoj suverenitet nad Srbima.

Mogao bi doći i hitnu pomoć na sr.wiki Članak o Hrvatksoj je u zadnjih par dna bio zaključavan, otključavan, vandaliziran... Barem pogledaj ako ti se dade.

Vidio same te slike, i odgovorih ti na Talk:Croatia. Tada je mladi regent, 1925, mislim da je ta godina, naredio postavljanje spomenika u čast idolu njegova sina - 1,000 - godišnjica prvog (Jugo)Slavenskog kralja - Tomislava I Trpimirovića. Spomenici su postavljeni od Pule do Ulcinja, ako me pamet služi, samo su neki opstali. Taj u Dubrovniku, i još neki u Dalmaciji, pretpostavljam.

Serbs of Croatia i History of Croatian Serbs su već tute. Samo, čim su nastali, nastali su i controversies. Ako nijesi znao - Ruđer Josip Bošković je u zadnjih nekoliko dne ponovo postao čistokvrni Hrvat, pa srpski nacionalist, pa produkcija uma Vojislava Šešelja... itd. Mislih da je pravedno da ga uključim u sliku i spisak najznamenitijih Srba iz Hrvatske, no Elephantus i drugi garantiraju da je on Hrvat i nipošto išta drugo - pa mi ne ostaje mlogo šta :S (iako si mi čak ti rekao da mu je otac Srbin, a majka Italijanka :D.

Pogledaj De Administrando Imperio i vidjet ćeš da piše Belgrade. Srijemom su vladali Panonci (uzgred, evo napisah i Ljudevit Posavski), pa bio je kratko dio Kraljevine Hrvatske, jer ga 927 godine osvaja Simeon (oba Sre/ijema :), car Bugara. Nijesi Srbi sagradili Dubrovnik, već kako kaže De Regno Sclavorum iz Barskoga Rodoslova, ujak Časlava Klonimirovića Vlastimirovića, (obećavam ti da ću ti nabaviti i citat). No, da je Dubrovačku tvrđavu sagradio Kralj Duklje i Dalmacije Konstantin Bodin (Petar III) Vojislavljević u drugoj polovici XII vijeka - je opšte poznata stvar (uskoro je stavljam i na Duklja pogledaj taj članak kad budeš imao vrijemena)

? Gundulićeva nacionalnost nema veze što je pratio popularni srpski epski mit ("dokazan" od strane "nevjerovatnoga" povijesničara Jovana I. Deretića - ako nisi čuo o njemu - i nemoj! :) da je Aleksandar Maćedonski bio Srbin.

A, trenutno se interesiram za Bosansku povijest, pa napisah: History of Herzegovina, Matej Ninoslav, Prijezda I, Prijezda II, Kotroman, Stephen II Kotromanić i prepravih Kulina Bana, a i mnogo za Tvrtka ide uskoro.

I poslijednje, ali ne i najmanje: [27] Evo ti nešto za razonodu. Mnogo odgovora daje zašto smo mi ex-yugoovci takvi. :D Iako su uglavnom odavde, 20% su skinuli sa HRT-a i RTL-a. Ovi najnoviji nisu toliko smiješni koliko prošli, pa ćeš morati da malo pretražiš.

Pozdrav! --HolyRomanEmperor 16:02, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One more bit

Now, I have found some sources on Rudjer Boskovic, but fellow-wikipedians refused to put them, so I am asking you to check their verification:

Virtual Library

Ancestry of Rudjer Boskovic (which has already been discussed)

Serbian Literature from Encyclopedia Britannica

Rudjer Boskovic, Virtual Library

Regards. --HolyRomanEmperor 22:35, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Trebalo bi malo srijedit one prominent individuals sa Serbs of Croatia. Napravih mess :S

Nemam pojma. Vjerovatno ima veze sa onim poznatim "... gdje si god na pučini Jadrana, prvu stvar koju ćeš vidjeti je barem jedan spomen kralja Tomislava..." tako da se svuda sa Jadrana vidi. Samo ne razumijem kako se jedna pločica može vidjeti odatle :D

Slažem se s tobom u vezi Boškovića. Pa, ne žuri, no pogledaj te linkove. Za sada Elephantus i drugi vode ratove (iz kojih se davno povukoh), on vadi Ruđera sa Serbs of Croatia i List of Serbs, i mijenja Ruđerov članak - za sada stoji da je on vjerovatno Hrvat, ali da ga svojata uzizanje srpskog nacionalizma Srpske Radikalne Stranke kao na primjer Vojislav Šešelj :D (baš to piše :) a druga strana vraća njegove promijene. No, trenutno je u vođstvu, jer je mlogo uporan.

Gdje si čuo da je Ljudevit Posavski pobjegao u Srb? Stavih to, alo je Elephantus tvrdio da je to Srpski Nacionalistički Mit, pa izbacih. Uzgred, ako neko pročita Chronicum Venetum, De Administrando Imperio, Barski Rodoslov (s De Regno Sclavorum), i izvještaje brojnih povijesničara, pa i Jovana Skilice i drugih... naizgled izgleda zbunjeno i razbacano, no vidjet će se da ti dokumenti samo potvrtđuju jedni druge. Mogu ti čak objasnit ako želiš, no to neće biti kratak post :-)

Mislim da gledaš pogrešne snimke. Ne bih rekao da su policajci i voditelji (među njima i Tomislav sa RTL-a) neuki ljudi :D Isto ima i par sa duhovnim ljudima, a i jedan sa Miroljubom Labusom (jednim od političara).

E, to za Gundulića si potpuno u pravu. Ti na jugu Dalmacije su čas Srbi, čas Hrvati. Jedini način (što je, moram priznati, sramota) da znamo ko su i što su ako se proderu ko jeleni u sred trga Dubrovnika. :) Primjer (ovo su sve katolici): Grof Medo Pucić koji je pijevao pjesmu o Srpstvu Dubrovnika i otišao u Beograd gdje je napisao spomenike Srbske od uhh... negdje 14-15 vijek (srpska povijest u tom periodu).

Citat Milana Rešetara:

Зато ја још увијек тврдим, као што сам тврдио пред педесет година да се у Дубровнику није никада говорило, ни у њему цијелом ни у једном његовом дијелу далматинским чакавско-икавским говором него увијек само херцеговачким штокавско-јекавским. Ја не идем даље од тога научног резултата, а нећу никако да улазим у, нажалост, обновијени спор о српству или хрватству Дубровника, јер су мени Срби и Хрвати један народ под два имена, па ми је зато Дубровник српски и хрватски. Али ко дијели српство од хрватства мора признати да је Дубровник по језику био увијек српски.

Onda imaš onog fratra koji je pobijegao na ostvrlje i spjevao pjesmo O 'rvatima Dubrovnika itd. Now you get the picture :O) Pročitaj onaj link kad budeš mog'o o Srpskim Društvima i iskazi svoje mišljenje.

Samo još jedno pitanje. Da li je Hrvatska bila zemlje dvojnog naroda - Hrvata i Srba do 1990 (kao Makedonija - Makedonaca i Albanaca sada?) ili je nešto drugo u pitanju? Bog! --HolyRomanEmperor 18:34, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comeback

Glad to see you back. I've begun to worry (possible health problems & all that) Mir Harven 14:06, 19 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Što da se radi s ovim, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Velikasrbija.png ? To su stavili Bosanci, no, tih slika ima k'o šodera, ja se uopće ne sjećam otkuda je koja ? Mir Harven 18:09, 19 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Molise Croatian

Good evening, I'm here to cross paths with you and bug you for a second time. Please check out my talk contributions on the Molise Croatian Language, [28].

Image Tagging Image:Tito.marshall.post-war.J.J..jpg

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Sorry:)

Hi,

I've been thinking and feel like I owe you an apology for my rash personal attack with regards to the Croatian language delcaration. Though I still fundamentally disagree with your view, that was certainly not a way to engage in a civil discussion. I guess what ticked me off was the removal of the cyrilic from the Rade Serbedzija page (explanation, not an excuse:). In any case, I am sorry and I look forward to colaborating with you on articles related to South Slavs, for even if we disagree, I truly value your contributions and open-mindedness. Best regards, --Bora Nesic 04:23, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

p.s. If you or anybody you colaborate with on Wikipedia knows anything on the topic of Praxis school and the Praxis philosophers such as Milan Kangrga, we could really use some help on those pages. Thx.

Ljetopis Popa Dukljanina

Dakle, mogu ti poslati cijelu stvar. Nevjerovatno je zanimljiva - ali i velika. On navodi da koristi iz 753 De Regno Sclavorum koga naziva predanjem i naglasava da je dio o Svetom Konstantinu crkveno predanje, a za ostale stvari jemci. Jedino mi se ne svidja to sto u mnogo slucajeva ispada da je sin zivio nekada cak 200 godina prije oca. :D Dakle, napisano je na osnovu strucnog istrazivanja - ali izuzetno lose napisano, a ja mislim da je sve pokvario onaj koji je djelo preveo na Latinski jezik - koristio je pig Latin. :)

Dakle, Grgur je govorio sa nadahnutim patriotizmom i romanticarskim nacionalizmom, a samo djelo je na neki nacin bila propaganda - za gradjane Drzave koja rapidno izumire. Djelo je pojacavalo neovisnost Duklje od bilo kojih zemalja i posebno se uvijek koncentrisalo na Povijest Grada Bara - Barsku bitku je predivno opisao. Poslijednje redove je Grgur napisao dok je vojska Stefana Nemanje opsedala grad, a i sam Grgur je izgleda bio mocna figura tadasnjega Bara koja je imala veliku ulogu u odbrani i ocuvanju samostalnosti grada.

Stefan Nemanja ga je prognao iz Barske stolice, i ona ce nekoliko godina ostati potpuno pusta dok je Vukan Nemanjic ne objavi na zalaganje Pape. Grgur je izgleda otisao na zapad - pa se zato i tamo ocuvalo to dijelo. Takodjer, puna titula mu je bila Grgur, nadbiskup Barski, primat Srbije. --HolyRomanEmperor 14:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Image

Hi, Image:Linux.vollwaschmittel.jpg is not PD, because photographers own their photos, even if the photo is boring. :-) So we need the photographer in order to keep the image. Stan 03:05, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

the map of Western Europe

Hi, I am Flamarande. First, I want to thank you for the the map "Western Europe". It is a good piece of work, and I used as soon as I found it, in the article Western Europe. Alas, a "user with sharp eyes" noticed that Slovenia (between italy and Austria, northeastern corner) is painted in yellow. According to the article (which I reformed, and therefore agree with) "Western Europe" describes mainly the countries which were not part of eastern/communist bloc. Soo... could you improve the map, please? I would be much obliged, and hope for a answer. Thanks Flamarande 13:11, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pro-Croat propaganda corrected--role of Roman Catholic church in genocide made clear

The Bleiburg massacre occurred near to the end of World War II, during May 1945. It is named after the village of Bleiburg on the Austrian-Slovenian border, near where the massacre began.

It involved mass murder of Croatian soldiers and civilians who were fleeing from the defeated Independent State of Croatia, an associate of Nazi Germany.

Although a still undefined number of Croatian soldiers died during a series of battles and skirmishes, it is generally accepted that the vast portion of violent deaths were the result of executions that lasted at least two weeks after the cessation of hostilities. The victims were Croatian soldiers and civilians, executed without trial as an act of vengeance for the crimes committed by the Ustaše regime in Croatian-controlled territories during World War II — frequently in overtly gruesome manner (mass rape and subsequent killing by stoning of Catholic Croat whores and beheading Croatian disarmed soldiers, albeit too few to make a real difference.

Emigration by Croatian Nazis to Canada and Australia with the assistance of the Roman Catholic church unfortunately could not be stopped.

DITTO

Ditto to the last comments; as an Irishman I am embarrassed that fellow Catholics like the Croatian people could do such things.

AodhBlathmac@eirelover.net 22:25, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, the above "editor" is agreeing with himself, being one and the same person as 69.31.83.202 and the charming Aisling O'Cuiv (see this talk page's history) - both sock-puppets of Rms125a@hotmail.com. "Aodh" is neither an Irish man (unless he's "Irish-American"), and if he is a catholic, he, and the other socks of Rms125a, have shown a deep, deep, hatred of all things catholic. See Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Rms125a@hotmail.com. Camillus (talk) 22:36, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Joy, are you back?

Are you back? Also, I apologize for the misunderstanding caused on Red Croatia.

U potpunosti se slazem s tvojom rijecju. Ne znam u cemu je problem... Jedino mi smeta sto jos stoji da je Pagania/Narenta dio Crvene Hrvatske, kada to nigdje nije spomenuto.

Bog! --HolyRomanEmperor 13:08, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Eh; ja koristim moj nas pozdrav na wikiju vec mjesecima, a ti se sada cudis. :-D Hmm, pa vidi, oni koji prihvacaju postojanje Crvene Hrvatske garantiraju nepostojanje Paganije, pa zato ne bih kombinirao da pravim zabunu. No, ti idi kojim redom zelis. Ja cu cekati tvoje odgovore u vezi Rudjera, Ustava i Dubrovackih Srba do trenutka kada SCG udje u Europsku Uniju. :-D Gdje si bio do sada? Nisu valjda neki zdravstveni problemi (Mir mi je ukazao na to...).

A iskreno da ti kazem, rekli su da sam srpski Cetnkicki nacionalista (Emir Arven), da sam Srbomrzac i slicno (Nikola Smolenski), da previse volim Hrvato ko sto je Ivo Andric previse volio Srbe, da mrzim Hrvatske ustase iz sveg srca; .... pa mislim da ipak nije problem u meni. :D

P. S.

Stvarno bi trebao arhivirati ovu stranicu... --HolyRomanEmperor 20:25, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

I am conducting a survey on Wikipedia and would like to invite you to participate in the study. I've posted a message on wikien-l, but here is the link again in case you are not subscribed to that list-serv. Thanks a lot for your time! --Mermes 01:30, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re:

Pa, ja se sad speciziram za taj dio Povijesti; valjda nece biti problema... Kada god nadjes vremena, molim te da pogledas sukob o Rudjeru Boskovicu (na Talk:Rudjer_Boskovic). Ponovo je heat ta clanka. Zaista pocinjem da mislim da nema kraja.

Bog! --HolyRomanEmperor 15:36, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: eto me

Pa, ja se sad speciziram za taj dio Povijesti; valjda nece biti problema... Kada god nadjes vremena, molim te da pogledas sukob o Rudjeru Boskovicu (na Talk:Rudjer_Boskovic). Ponovo je heat ta clanka. Zaista pocinjem da mislim da nema kraja.

Bog! --HolyRomanEmperor 15:57, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

honorable member

you have been withdrawn.

COME BACK!!!!!111111 :) --VKokielov 06:30, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Joy,

I very much liked your Eastern Europe map. I would like to use an enlarged version of it, but the file does not allow a lot of enlargement without getting distorted. Do you have a higher resolution version and if so, is there any way I can get hold of it? Thanks in advance!

Manuela

Eastern Europe map

Hello Joy,

I very much liked your Eastern Europe map. I would like to use an enlarged version of it, but the file does not allow a lot of enlargement without getting distorted. Do you have a higher resolution version and if so, is there any way I can get hold of it? Thanks in advance!

Manuela

Eng, Srb & Cro wikipedias on the history of S. Dalmatia.

You're becomming very popular: [29] :)))) --HolyRomanEmperor 18:20, 19 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Eh, ma nema veze. Samo ti pokazujem koliko si slavan. :) Ja pravim jedan dug wikibreak (napisat cu jos samo nekoliko stranica o Trpimirovicima i Domagojicima, pa ti mi gledaj contributions i prepravi kada se pojave :) Previse stresa su mi nacinili ovi RfA-i. Jedan je skroz pokrenut ispocetka zbog vandalizma, pa tu su i POV-glasovi, itd. nikako da predje 66% support. :O) Mislim da nece uspeti, i zatrazio sam da me ostave na miru, ali ovi administratori koju se me nominovali inzistiraju da sve ide svojim tokom, pa ne daju. --HolyRomanEmperor 18:20, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm... what's wrong with a list of famous Croatians? It was on Croatia's article once... --HolyRomanEmperor 14:46, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Roger. --HolyRomanEmperor 11:15, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Translation

Hi Joy. I've created the article Još Hrvatska ni propala. However, I can't seem to find an English translation of the song to include in it. If possible, could you translate it? I could try it myself, but I'd rather not butcher parts of it :-/. Anyways, if you're not interested, just tell me and I'll find someone else to do it. Thanks in advance. --Thewanderer 23:18, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Name of the Homeland war

You might want to join the discussion here: [30]. I'm sorry for disturbance if you are not interested the discussion. --Dijxtra 12:36, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just a question... (Yugoslavs)

Hi. Few days ago I deleted a link "Soviet people" from article "Yugoslavs" because in my opinion it didn't fit in there. Soviet people would refer to peoples in former Soviet Union. It seems naturally for that link to be on, for example, Estonians,Georgians, etc. Slavic peoples yes, but soviet!? Except that, the reason I deleted it is that it may cause confusion among poeple in USA or anywhere among people who don't know the circumstances in Europe so well. (I know that from expirience of a friend that was in the USA for a year). Obviously, you had a reason for putting link back, but I don't see it, so if you could just explain it, please. No hard feelings...

Ok, thanks for such a quick response. Bye.

Pitanje...

Halo, ja mislim da je van pameti da ima clanak Kozarska Dubica, koji je kompletna kopija clanka Bosanska Dubica. Ja sam masivno dodao teksta za "article" Bosanska Dubica. Moje mjesto rodenja je Bosanska Dubica zato znam mnogo informacije. Ja sam da se napravi redirect sa Kozarska Dubica na Bosanska Dubica (Kao sto je i bilo). Clanak Bosanska Dubica je od 2005 godine, a kopija Kozarska Dubica je od juce.

Hvala, Kseferovic

Evo ja sam uskočio pa vratio stvar na staro stanje i umergeovao Joyeve promjene. Neću da sudim koje je "pravo" ime, za to postoji WP:RM. Duja 22:34, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Da Silva i nacionalnost

Pogledaj koja je praksa na drugim stranicama Wikipedije. Igračima koji igraju za reprezentaciju druge zemlje od one u kojoj su rođeni stoji nacionalnost te zemlje. Zbog čega je to tako? Zbog toga što je zapravo jedina bitna stvar to što je igrač svojim igranjem za neku reprezentaciju na službenoj utakmici doživotno vezan uz tu reprezentaciju i više je ne može promijeniti. Znam da je to ne samo praksa na Wikipediji nego valjda ne svim medijima i stranicama vezanima uz nogometne klubove. Budući da nisam neki veliki nogometni fan sad kao što sam bio prije, namučio sam se da nađem primjer igrača koji sad igra nogomet a igra za reprezentaciju države u kojoj nije rođen. Imaš link na talk page-u od Dinama.

Dakle, ne radi se o tome šta je fer nego šta je službeno u FIFA-i. A službeno je da Silva Hrvat ma kolko to čudno zvučalo. Pozdrav! Jakiša Tomić 22:03, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ajde dobro, stvarno ima tih katalonskih zastava kolko god hoćeš pa možemo stavit i dvije kod da Silve. Inače, nije poanta u tome da li je on promijenio državljanstvo (nije opće ni poanta u državljanstvu) nego u tome da znaš čiji je on reprezentativac. Ostale informacije su nebitne za nekog nogometnog gledatelja. Naravno, na stranici o da Silvi piše sve.

Da ne bi bio krivo shvaćen, ne mislim da će ikome naškodit ako stavimo zastavu Brazila kod imena da Silve, ali kad ja vidim dvije zastave kod imena igrača pretpostavljam da ima dvojno državljanstvo te dvije države i da nije još zaigrao za ijednu od tih reprezentacija. Bar ja tako na to gledam.

Inače, kad si mi već ukazao na Barcelonu (i na zastavice Katalonije koje su stvarno smiješne u kontekstu nogometa), kako bi ja mogao doznat čija je ideja to sa zastavicama uz imena igrača (općenito na stranicama klubova na Wikipediji) pa da se raspitam je li namjera bila da se kaže čiji je igrač (šta će reć reprezentacija i šta ja mislim da je ispravno) ili i otkud je igrač? Pitam jer ovaj kupus i nekonzistentnost nema smisla. Jakiša Tomić 23:45, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Skalić

Joy it is obična izdajica! Ili pak teški neznalica i ignorant kad kao netko iz Hr. dopuštaš i potpomažeš da se oko Skalića, koji je Hrvat i ništa drugo, stvara jalove kontroverze a sve zbog gluposti i ignorancije Anglo-saksonskih enciklopedija, koje Skalića konstantno trpaju pod Nijemca, Mađara i tko zna još pod šta. Samo da ne bude Hrvat- pobogu, kako bi bilo moguće da je neki tamo Hrvat izmislio takav pojam kao što je enciklopedija!!!

Pavao Skalić je nedvojbeno Hrvat, čemu bi ove neznalice iz VB i SAD-a trebalo poučiti, a ne potpomagati i daljnje ponavljanje gluposti kako se radi o Nijemcu i Mađaru. Na taj se način nikada ne će ispraviti takva glupost, koja se nažalost nalazi u mnogim stranim enciklopedijama! Razmisli malo o tome!

Rens via Pula

Trebalo je izbrisati čitavu referencu o njegovoj nacionalnosti- pobogu pa to je apsolutna glupost- umjetno stvaranje kontroverze!!! Neka se naša strana gospoda nauće već jednom da su neki podaci, kod njih u enciklopedijama NETOČNE BUDALAŠTINE!!! Oni imaju problema sa svojim zdravim razumom, neznanjem elementarnih činjenica, ali se usuđuju dodavati nekakve priloge na tekstu o enciklopediji i o Skaliću, dok se meni prijeti blokiranjem kada brišem te gluposti! A ONDA IM I TI IDEŠ JOŠ POMAGATI!!! PA GDJE JE TU ZDRAV RAZUM?!

SKALIĆEVA NACIONALNOST JE KONTROVERZA SAMO OVIM DEBILIMA SA STRANE WIKIPEDIJE!!! Zbog čega je i tebi, nije mi jasno!!!??? Zašto si vratio dio o nacionalnosti?! TO SU UBACILI OVI IDIOTI JUČER- I TO ŠTO SU ONI DODAVALI BI SE MOGLO SMATRATI VANDALIZMOM!

Rens

Sve što navodiš već sam jučer učinio. Argumentirao sam s njima preko 3 SATA, pružao im razumne argumente, lingvističke dokaze, činjenice, web stranice kao izvore, ali oni su se i dalje držali slijepo svojih "svetih" enciklopedija, umjesto da su pokušali barem malo razmisliti logikom zdravog razuma. Dakle, dok smo došli do toga da se ja zestim protekli su sati i sati uzaludnog debatiranja- objašnjavanja nekoga tko je upučeniji, ali nije bilo dobre volje da se malo razmisli i revidira očito krive informacije. Što mi ostaje drugo, nego pretpostaviti da je opet riječ o tipičnoj zapadnjačkoj aroganciji i egocentrizmu. Nadalje, ukoliko želiš, možeš im ti ponovno pokušati objasniti neke stvari, ali se ne nadaj puno u to da ćeš pronaći nekoga tko tamo zdravorazumski rezonira!

Ali, mislim da u svakom slučaju treba ukloniti podnaslov "Nationality" jer je čitava ta kontroverza utemeljena na gluposti i netoćnim podacima nekih Anglo-saksonskih i zapadnjačkih enciklopedija. Umjesto toga bi bolje bilo da se navede da u istim enciklopedijama (navesti ih) postoje netočni i zastarjeli podatci o nacionalnosti Paula Pavla Skalića i argumentirati zbog čega su netočni!

Srednja Europa

Dakle Shallout alias Joy Hrvatska je područje rubno Srednjoj Europi?! Pa ti stari nemaš pojma ne samo o povijesti (što vidim iz nekih drugih razgovora) nego i sa elementarnim zemljopisom. Svrstavaš jednu Srbiju, pa čak i Ukrajinu koja je daleko već na istoku prema Rusiji, u isti koš! Srbija osim krajnjeg sjevernog dijela, svojom glavninom nikada ni u kojem kontekstu nije pripadala Srednjoj Europi. Štoviše, stoljećima je dio onog istog "istoka" koji je više puta odigrao izrazito negativnu- destruktivnu ulogu upravo u pokušaju negacije svega onoga što je ta ista Srednja Europa. Naprotiv, Hrvatska je od svojih samih početaka uvijek na ovaj ili onaj način bila dio zapadnog kruga, sjeverni dio Srednje Europe, južni Mediterana. Ali je čak i južni dio usljed kulturnih veza i političkih prilika ( Dalmacija i Istra- dijelovi srednjoeuropskog Habsburškog carstva!) bio pod izrazitim srednjoeuropskim utjecajem (uz, naravno, dominantni mediteranski). Dakle, Hrvatska je barem svojom polovicom uvijek pripadala Srednjoj Europi, dok je drugi dio bio pod snažnim utjecajem iste. To nije zanemariva činjenica! Dakle Hrvatska je gotovo ravnopravni dio Srednje Europe, a ne nekakva granična zemlja!

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.152.209.97 (talk • contribs) 09:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Buduci da se nisi ulogirao i koristis privremenu IP adresu, odgovorit cu ovdje.

Ne znam tocno kako si to tocno zakljucio da ja ne smatram da je Hrvatska dijelom srednje Europe. Mozda zato sto u uvodu u clanak Croatia inzistiram da se spomene "bordering on" i srednja i jugoistocna i juzna?

Ako je to u pitanju, molim te shvati da nije poanta u rijeci bordering, nego da je poanta u spominjanju sva tri utjecaja a ne samo jednog, jer je bilo ljudi koju si inzistirali na spominjanju samo jednog (pogadjas - balkanskog).

I pozeljno bi bilo da s malo vise postovanja pristupas sugovorniku - netko drugi bi samo ignorirao cijeli komentar zbog onih besmislenih uvreda gore. --Joy [shallot] 21:33, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

fans/Pratyush

Hi Joy

I am doing a project whereby I am interviewing 32 fans - one from each country ahead of the football world cup. Would you be knowledgeable enough to answer questions on Croatia? If yes, would you be willing? If not, then could you suggest some one else from Croatia?

Do email me at pratyushkhaitan@gmail.com

Thanks, Pratyush

Saints Wikiproject

I noted that you have been contributing to articles about saints. I invite you to join the WikiProject Saints.

You are invited to participate in Saints WikiProject, a project dedicated to developing and improving articles about saints. We are currently discussing prospects for the project. Your input would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks! --evrik 18:58, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Smile!

HolyRomanEmperor has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk pages. Happy editing!

Istrian villages

Hi Joy, I noticed your edits to some Istrian stubs I was working on a while back. In Croatia, when can a village be considered a town? What number of inhabitants does it need to have or is there any other criteria? Also, are Opcine always rural municipalities? Thanks in advance, E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 21:05, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please read the fine descriptions at List of cities in Croatia, Category:Villages in Croatia, Category:Towns in Croatia, etc. Općina just means municipality, so the answer to the third question is basically yes. I have preserved the notion of "small town" for many relatively urbanized villages, but in the categorization, they simply can't be considered towns, so they go to the village category. --Joy [shallot] 23:25, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks. I cannot read Serbo-Croatian (oh well, with the exception of some greatly embarrasing tourist phrasebook bits :o)), so I work mainly from English translations, which are sometimes inconsistent in their usage. Cheers, E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 21:14, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edits

Please don't re submit my old commenst as I have deleted them for a reason. I don't have the factual info to back them up for now. They are my comments so i can delete them. I have now registerd while before I wasnt thats all.

Bog i Hrvati Evergreen Montenegro1 22:55, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Iam Montenegrin but I do like all the history on the former Yugoslavia in particular that of Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia. Its funny to read the debates over origin etc... What I will say is this we're all from Africa or Adam and Eve so I guess the debate is pointless. Most of the former Yugoslavia is like a Pizza...you will never be able to get all the slices. We're all too mixed. Eg Petkovic, Petkovich, Petkowski, Petkovski, Pekov, Petkova..same name and found in all Slav lands so no point pointing out were different.

Take Care Evergreen Montenegro1 23:22, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Drniš

About your edit I can say only this: "Keep up the good work!" Jakiša Tomić 14:52, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I kwow this person was not "plain wrong". I just like the way you put all stuff in the right context. Jakiša Tomić 18:07, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Mapa

Moja zamisao je da clanak Chronicle of the Priest of Duklja jednostavno mora imati mapu - neovisno od drugih clanak ili bilo kakve politicke propagande.

A sto se tice Hrvoja Vukcica - ah, the Father of Croatian Herzegovina & Duke of Saint Sava - by the end of the following week - I guarrantee that you will have a full House of Kosaca with every single person having its own article (check out the House of Kulinic in the meantime...) Feel free to make any other historical person wish whenever you want ;) HolyRomanEmperor 18:10, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pogledaj pomen Crvenih Hrvata na History of Balkans. HolyRomanEmperor 18:24, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dakle - zapocinjem House of Hrvatinić. --HolyRomanEmperor 20:55, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jedno pitanje: Bi li bilo pogresno ako stavim "Croatian dynasty"? --HolyRomanEmperor 20:59, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Evo, kako ti se svidja? Zapoceo sam i Vukca Hrvatinića. :) --HolyRomanEmperor 21:52, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Yugoslavia-stub

Hi Joy, I noticed you added the crvena petokraka flag to this stub. The thing is that as for this was meant to be for stub articles relating to Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia but also for Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes/Kingdom of Yugoslavia. So it had neither red star nor the royal coat of arms. Let me know what you think. E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 09:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed now. I saw the FRY flag and instantly changed it because of the nomenclature - the tricolor was indeed the same but it was confusing to see it. --Joy [shallot] 11:06, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good, thanks. E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 16:31, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed you are using Category:Second Yugoslavia. Will you be setting a similar range od stubs too? It sounds like a winner to me (i.e. SFRY and Kingdom of Yugoslavia separate stubs?). My only concern is that there may be less than 60 stubs as per guidelines. Thanks, --E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 18:40, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think so, exactly because of that reason - there are probably fewer than 60 stubs per each category. --Joy [shallot] 20:08, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Apology

other people's comments Please do not remove other people's comments from talk pages as you did on Talk:Neo-Nazism in Croatia. Once comments become old and irrelevant, they can be archived, but those comments were neither. Please read the Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. --Joy [shallot] 11:18, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Marinko" Sorry about this, obviously made an error - I had no intention of deleting any comments & wasn't aware that I had until you posted on my talk. Is there anything that I need to do to reverse the error?

Novi članci

Pozdrav. Primetio sam da na Vikipediji ne postoje neki važni članci vezani za hrvatsku istoriju. Pošto ja nemam dovoljno podataka da bi ih napisao, predlažem ti da ih ti napišeš:

1. Prvo treba napisati članak Kingdom of Croatia po ugledu na Kingdom of Hungary. Članak nikako ne bi bio isto što i History of Croatia ili Medieval Croatian state (na koji sada ide kao redirekt). Članak "Kingdom of Croatia" bio bi o političkom entitetu koji se tako zvao u jednom delu istorije, što nije isto kao istorija današnje Hrvatske (History of Croatia) ili srednjovekovne Hrvatske (Medieval Croatian state), jer pojam Kingdom of Croatia prevazilazi ove pojmove.
2. Drugi članak bi bio Banovina of Croatia (medieval), o srednjovekovnoj hrvatskoj banovini u okviru Ugarske. Sadašnji članak Banovina of Croatia govori o hrvatskoj banovini u okviru Jugoslavije, ali bi trebao da postoji članak i o ovoj srednjovekovnoj.
3. i treći članak koji treba napisati je Pannonian Croatia o Panonskoj Hrvatskoj državi. Na primer postoji članak o vladaru ove države (Ljudevit Posavski), ali o samoj državi ne. Moja ideja je da treba da postoji više članaka o istorijskim državama i pokrajinama sa područja bivše Jugoslavije, koji ne moraju biti ne znam koliko opširni, ali dovoljno je da postoje i da pružaju neku informaciju o temi. PANONIAN (talk) 16:03, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. Stvarno je vreme da napraviš arhivu od ove stranice. Ogromna je. :) PANONIAN (talk) 16:09, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Da ne otvorimo peticiju???? :D Dobro evo: ja sam ZA. Joy! Vrijeme je. Ne moras CIJELU stranicu arhivirati, ali tek odgrizi barem vrh, da bi bilo mijesto za disanje. --VKokielov 17:13, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A da ga spamujemo sve dok je ne skrati? Na smjenu, po vremenskim zonama: kad zavrsimo mi s Balkana, VKokielov & američka ekipa se uključuje—neće moći disati od "You got new messages" ;;) Duja 10:10, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you

I hadn't realised how smart you had been on the handball disambiguation thing, you have saved hours and hours of time. I may now have a chance to reword the Slatina article! LeeG 22:11, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Neo-Nazism in Croatia

I have done a rewrite of the "Events and issues connected (actual or alleged) to neo-Fascism" in Croatia section & reverted the POV check tag that user:Purger took off. Do you have tie to review my update for NPOV.

Cheers, croatian_quoll 03:11, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There

Archived. --HolyRomanEmperor 17:56, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Reverted. I like it this way, I get to see the entire history, and besides, people who wish to insult^Wtalk to me need to pay a token price first! :) --Joy [shallot] 19:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ministarka

Evo, sada su pljuvali na ovu hrvatsku ministarku poljoprivrede ovdje. Reakcija medju narodom je peticija da se ukine i legalno zabrani SRS u Srbiji. ;) Je li bilo slicnih situacija u Hr donedavno? --HolyRomanEmperor 17:58, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sto mislis...

...o Crnoj Gori? --HolyRomanEmperor 18:46, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Sori za Archive - Nego, ima li koji ministar u hr Srbin, Bosnjak, Musliman ili slicno? P. S. sto mislis o CG? --HolyRomanEmperor 19:21, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pa jes, bolje je - sve su to Crnogorci srijedili. Slobodan Milosevic i njegovi su Crnogorci, pa ne zaboravimo i Radovana Karadzica i druge. ;) Zelja za nezavisnu Crnu Goru se pojavila 2000 godine, kada oni vise nisu bili na vlasti u Beogradu (dosli Vojislav Kostunica i Zoran Djindjic). Onda 2003 naivni Srbijanci im dadose opet vlast - misleci da ce se vratiti u normalu - a lukaviji su oni, slijedeci prijedsednik bi vjerovatno bio Srbijanac, pa ne bi oni dali. ;) Svetozar Marovic je bio 3 godine predsjednik drzave na koju je pljuvao i za cije se rasparcivanje zalagao (gdje to ima? Stipe Mesic je izdrzao samo nekoliko dana - a kamoli godina ;). Kada bi Srbija nesto ucinila dobro (haski zlocninci), hvalio bi zajednicu, a za lose Srbijino - krivio bi nju a ne sebe. Kada bi Crna Gora nesto dobro uradila, nju bi hvalio - a lose okrivljavao na Srbiju opet. :D --HolyRomanEmperor 19:54, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Postoji jedan vic-strip ovdje. Srbija (zemljopisna predstava) lezi na fotelji kod psihijatra i govori: "Doktore, imam problem - ne uspevaju mi dugotrajne veze!" i drzi se za celo placuci. :))) --HolyRomanEmperor 19:59, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mislim, Hrvati su mnogo naivni sto vjeruju. Za vrijeme rata on sam (licno) je napadao Dubrovnik; izjavio je da mrzi (i vise ne igra) sah zbog ustaske sahovnice - i da se jednom za svagda moraju uspostaviti granice Crne Gore prema zapadu - a ne ove Boljsevicke tvorevine. Onda je ubedjivao da je Milosevic los, ali da buducnost Crne Gore lezi s Srbijom za svagda. Posle toga ponovo mijenja politiku. A sada kada cujem da Hrvati krive Srbijance govoreci kako su natjerali jadne Crnogorce - jos ispase "jadni". :))) --HolyRomanEmperor 17:23, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Stepinac censorship

You would be well advised to read the discussion carefully yourself. Removing Budak from the explanation of reversal of war crime sentence (which is clearly political when the context is given) is censorship. As for what rant is that is clearly subjective. To me, all this story about Croatian righteous who saved the Jews is rant, while you might call exposition of context in which this war criminal was rehabilitated a rant. That is POV issue, and it is not resolved by deleting information you dislike and calling it rant. Maayaa 00:21, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ministri

...sto ne odgovori u vezi njih? A postovi? Pa procitaj ono sto je DUja rekao i sve ce ti biti jasno. :) --HolyRomanEmperor 14:25, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Neonazism in Croatia

Regarding what you said at article discussion Neonazism in Croatia for the user (anonimous) 4.*... (that is not me, but likely Purger) - you said you were close to blocking him!? So, you are an admin, and threaten to block people in disputes you are involved in, and that on the basis of POV. Dont you think it is against wiki policies? Once you are involved in a dispute, you should not abuse (or even use) your admin powers - that is not what these are meant for. So, please state clearly - are you willing to ban people for holding POV other than yours, or even people that are involved in edit wars with you? If you are, say it clearly, so we can then seek a comment on that attitude. If you are not, withdraw your threats to Purger! Maayaa 13:09, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pitao si me šta mislim o ovome (verovatno o ovome što si pretio da ćeš blokirati korisnika, pretpostavljam). Pa znaš kako, ja zato nisam ni hteo da se kandidujem za admina (iako su mi predlagali), jer bih došao u iskušenje da blokiram korisnike sa kojima sam u sporu. U stvari kad si admin, onda moraš da paziš koga blokiraš, pa čak i ako nekog sa kim si u sporu blokiraš opravdano, ne možeš biti siguran jesi li imao pravo da ga blokiraš ili ne. :) Ako pitaš mene da li bi bilo opravdano da blokiraš ovog korisnika ili ne, ne mogu ti reći, jer ne poznajem dobro pravila u vezi blokiranja korisnika. Po mom mišljenju, taj čovek te jednostavno zajebava, a ako je u skladu sa pravilima da nekog blokiraš zbog toga, onda treba raditi po pravilima. Sam članak je i napisan sa ciljem da predstavi Hrvatsku u lošem svetlu, a da li se od tog članka može dobiti NPOV verzija, u to čisto sumnjam. Uostalom gomila je sličnih POV članaka u vezi sa bivšom Jugoslavijom, vezanih za ratove i nacinalističke ideologije. Možda bi trebalo zamoliti neke neutralne admine koji nisu sa naših prostora da se pozabave tim stvarima.

Mda, ja o ovome razmisljam vec duze vrijeme. Da napravimo neki task force sastavljen od admina koji nisu s ovih prostora da uvede reda medju... nervoznije korisnike sa Balkana. Stvarno vec situacija poprima ramjere rata. --Dijxtra 18:19, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Što se tiče konkretnog slučaja, zamoli nekog neutralnog admina da ti pomogne u vezi spora sa tim anonimnim korisnikom. Inače, ako ne arhiviraš ovu stranicu, ja ću ti je arhivirati kad navratim sledeći put. Ozbiljno ti kažem. :) PANONIAN (talk) 16:02, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I s ovim o arhiviranju se slazem :-) --Dijxtra 18:19, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To answer your questiton: I think you are beating your head against the wall. But I also think that you're supposed to beat it a bit longer so you can claim you were so incredibly full of good faith. And then just proceed with your common sence. You are an admin because the community has trust in your actions. Keep that in mind. --Dijxtra 18:19, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pa kažem ti, ako te grize savest, zamoli drugog admina da razmotri situaciju i da blokira korisnika ako ima osnova za to. Inače mrzi me da ti arhiviram stranicu, a pošto mrzi i tebe, nećeš se ljutiti. :) Inače nisam baš 100 posto shvatio da li me pitaš za mišljenje u vezi tog anonimnog korisnika ili u vezi spora oko sadržaja članka. Što se tiče sadržaja, ja ne volim baš previše da se bavim sadržajem takvih članaka kao što su "Neo-Nazism in Croatia", "Bosnian genocide", "Yugoslav wars", itd. Neću više da se bavim ni pitanjem statusa Kosova u člancima, dok se to pitanje ne reši. Mislim da je korisnije raditi na kvalitetu "ozbiljnih" članaka nego ulaziti u rasprave sa ljudima kojima je cilj širenje propagande a ne pisanje ozbiljnih članaka. PANONIAN (talk) 21:05, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you have not lost your motivation to improve such articles (and it is totally understandable if you have), you can also help with Neo-Nazism#Neo-Nazism_in_Croatia. --Zmaj 06:54, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you have time, pls review my rewrite of this article for NPOV. Note I have requested two other people to do the same just to get a cross-section of peer review. Thank you croatian_quoll 10:23, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Please help...

To answer: You are just beating your head against the wall with people who don't accept compromise. There, satisfied? :)

I know how you feel. Just try to read the talk page of the Mehmed-paša Sokolović article. I have barely concluded the Orthodox Serbian or Orthodox Bosniak compromise - even though this altogether is very silly. Just look over its history and talk page, and you'll notice how Emir Arven treats "what Bosniaks think" as highly correct and relevant and what the whole world says "a Serbian fairy tale" (quote). He has pushed me so far that I stopped assuming good faith and even started to be slightly aggressive. This altogether has (while you were gone) ticked off quitte a number of Serbian nationalists (annons, etc.) who are simply frustrated that Rudjer Boskovic is presented as "claimed by Vojislav Seselj to be of Serbian descent" - while so little (even a lot less than in Rudjer's case) for Mehmed is sufficient for such claims. --HolyRomanEmperor 20:04, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikibreak

Hi! I'm attemting to make a wikibreak, at least during working hours :). Could you please block this IP for a month? Please. Ante P.

Well, I always have that IP when I'm logged. Does it means it's only mine? Ante P.

Alija bi bio ponosan

		The Working Man's Barnstar
		For restlessly doing what needs to be done, even if it is boring, repetitive and uninteresing. (Provoked by your recent categorising work) --Dijxtra 16:47, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good for you :-) BTW, feel free to dump it to your user page for everyone to see it (I avoid messing with other people's user pages). --Dijxtra 16:57, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

from Mumba1234

Hi,

Dont blame me because the admin of this site are not smart enough to properly ban someone being as this is at LEAST the 30th time i have had my ip blocked for between 1 hour to 1 day allowing me to come back the next day, heck some times they only ban my username allowing me to come back within minutes. I consider my self as a sort of learning tool to the admin of this site so that maybe they will relize that no one is going to take there blocks seriously if we can simply come back within a sort period of time every time we are blocked.

S&M ;)

Did you mean ceci? Or did you mean celui-la? ;) Careful; Babel knows to haunt. I wouldn't say it if I didn't know it first-hand.

It isn't correctness I'm after, but the general effect. Be careful when you shorten that way. It's the first thing I thought of. :D --VKokielov 04:07, 14 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe it's just because you have a dirty mind? :-)) Duja 08:34, 14 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe, or maybe it's the media. But in any event, it's not my distinction. --VKokielov 15:43, 14 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wate wate CNN. CNN?! As in, they called Serbia and Montenegro S&M?

That means America hasn't taken over the world yet. Congratulations. :D

Whatever the case, the question vanishes anyway, because very soon they will forget S&M altogether and switch to either Serbia or Yugoslavia for the "historical entity". --VKokielov 01:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hrvatski ili mađarski nazivi

E vidi, nešto sam razmišljao oko naziva članaka o starim hrvatskim županijama: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Historical_counties_of_Croatia Nazivi članaka su sada na mađarskom ali mislim da bi trebali da budu na hrvatskom. Pogledaj ovo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Counties_in_the_Kingdom_of_Hungary Tu možeš videti da nazivi članaka o starim mađarskim županijama sa područja današnje Slovačke nisu na mađarskom, već na slovačkom. Tim pre bi trebali da koristimo hrvatske nazive za županije sa područja Hrvatske-Slavonije, koja je bila autonomna u okviru Ugarske i gde je hrvatski jezik bio službeni. Nasuprot tome, Slovačka nije bila autonomna niti je slovački bio službeni jezik u pomenutim županijama, ali nazivi ovih članaka su na slovačkom. Šta misliš o ovome? PANONIAN (talk) 23:02, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pa u jednom od istorijskih atlasa koji imam (ovaj je izdat 1970 u bivšoj Jugoslaviji), županije se zovu ovako: varaždinska, križevačka, požeška, virovitička, sremska, zagrebačka, modruško-riječka, ličko-krbavska. Naravno, sremska županija bi pre bila srijemska u originalu (ovaj atlas je ipak izdat u Beogradu). Dakle nazivi naših članaka mogli bi biti: Varaždin, Križevci, Požega, Virovitica, Srijem, Zagreb, Modruš-Rijeka, Lika-Krbava (ovaj zadnji se već tako zove). Srijem bi mogao biti i Syrmia, jer se i članak o sadašnjoj hrvatskoj županiji zove Vukovar-Syrmia County, mada ja nemam ništa protiv ni da koristimo naziv Srijem. Pored glavnog naziva kod naslova bi u zagradu mogli napisati nešto kao "former county" ili slično. Ja nemam sada vremena da se time više bavim i da učestvujem u razgovoru na Talk:Administrative divisions of the Kingdom of Hungary, ali nadam se da ti ovo što sam napisao može pomoći da ti nešto uradiš sa tim. Naravno ukoliko imaš volje i vremena da se time baviš :) PANONIAN (talk) 23:30, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pa šta fali ovoj literaturi koju sam ti naveo? :) Inače, napisao sam komentar na Talk:Administrative divisions of the Kingdom of Hungary, a možda ću kasnije predložiti i glasanje o promeni naziva članaka (Ipak se sa ovim treba nešto uraditi). PANONIAN (talk) 23:49, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Inače zanimljivo je da članak Lika-Krbava već ima hrvatsko ime, jer je pravilan mađarski naziv za tu županiju Lika-Korbava. Ako se niko ne bude bunio na moj predlog na Talk:Administrative divisions of the Kingdom of Hungary, ja ću preimenovati i druge članke o hrvatskim županijama za nekoliko dana (da dam prvo ljudima vremena da prodiskutuju o tome). PANONIAN (talk) 00:14, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template

Nego, imam i jednu molbu. Pogledaj ovo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Portal Ako se razumeš u to, da li bi mogao da otkloniš grešku koja postoji tu? Template izgleda dobro na brovserima Internet Explorer i Firefox, ali na Operi izgleda užasno (na Operi je prelomljen na dva dela i levi deo šablona (gde piše portal) se nalazi u desnom delu stranice a desni deo šablona (gde se nalazi slika) je potpuno odvojen od levog dela i nalazi se u levom delu stranice. Pored toga, taj otkinuti desni deo šablona zaklanja i linkove u tekstu na člancima gde se nalazi). To bi stvarno trebalo popraviti, a ako se ti ne razumeš u to, da li znaš kome da se obratim da bi to popravio? Napisao sam o problemu na stranici za razgovor tamo, ali nikog nije briga. PANONIAN (talk) 00:26, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

AGAIN

Hey, hey, smiri se - postoje ljudi koje ne mozes ubijediti niusta - ali postoje i oni koji su razumljivi. :D --HolyRomanEmperor 15:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A, pa mislio sam na Luku. :) Imas li vremena? Treba jedan problem da rijesim, no nemam mnogo uspijeha (odma' da te uputim - Jugonacionalizam). --HolyRomanEmperor 19:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pa, neka - ide za sada dobro. Ali mog'o bi procitati Talk:Stephen_I_of_Bosnia i ostati kao posmatrac dok traje. Ako nastavi lose, ukljuci se. --HolyRomanEmperor 22:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bosut i još nešto

Evo, napisao sam članak o selu Bosut, Serbia, pa je tu i ono što te zanima. Te podatke ne možeš naći na netu, ja sam kupio CD sa tim podacima u Beogradu, pa imam podatke o stanovništvu i etničkom sastavu svakog mesta u Srbiji sa popisa 2002. Inače, ti možeš da edituješ zaštićene članke, je li tako? Molim te pogledaj ovo, i ako ti nije problem samo ubaci tu mapu u članak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:AmiDaniel#Nakhichevan PANONIAN (talk) 20:49, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pa nije sada poenta koja je mapa bolja, jer te dve mape ne prikazuju istu stvar. Ona prva je mapa administrativne podele, a ova koju sam ja nacrtao je mapa većih gradova. Nisam ja kriv što taj region ima samo jedan veći grad :) Kod Tatarstana sam ih stavio više: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tatar03.png Samo ti dodaj tu mapu, jer ona prva ne pokazuje lokaciju glavnog grada (možeš kod mape napisati da pokazuje region i grad). PANONIAN (talk) 21:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kod mape možeš napisati "Nakhichevan region and location of Nakhichevan city". To bi bilo najprikladnije. PANONIAN (talk) 22:01, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ma dobro, sačekaću onda da je otključaju. PANONIAN (talk) 22:10, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Any advice?

Any advice (regarding that which I asked you some time ago). --HolyRomanEmperor 15:21, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, a zar ne bi bilo najbolje izostavit ih iz nacionalih povijesti? Ne pripadaju tu... A ako bi kojim cudom pripadali, onda pripadaju bosanskoj nacionalnoj historiji (cije nacije u biti danas nema), srpskoj (u neku ruku) i kojim cudom i hrvatskoj. Nije vrijedno pominjanja... --HolyRomanEmperor 15:33, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Eh, gledej ovako: Historija Bosne (i Hercegovine) jer je bio njen vladar. Historija Ugarske jer je to bio dio Ugarske Kraljevine. Hrvatska povijest jer je Bosna bila legalni fief Hrvatske i Subica; Povijest Srba (jer nema "Srpska povijest") jer je Bosna tada bila stvarni fief Srbije. A onda Bosnjacka historija jer su Bosnjaci imenovani po Bosni, a o uklanjanju ovih ostalih da ne govorim... Kapiras? --HolyRomanEmperor 16:00, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dovoljno dobro? ;) --HolyRomanEmperor 14:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

from Ragusan

I am not as nostalgic as I am precise when it comes to entering ones contemporary country of birth (eg. Republic of Venice, or Independent Croatia for a place in Bosnia during 1942 etc). Saying that, I'm equally in favour of leaving out the country since the name of the town speaks for itself, and anyone who didn't know Kumrovec or Korčula could easily click the link. It's just that, when trying to tidy up Severina, I buggered up the year, 1971 instead of 1972 for which I apologise. Next time, I'll leave it to you without touching!! Ragusan June 28, 2006

oh no offence taken at all. I just felt that certain aspects and importance of usage would have qualified our Latinic script for a seperate entry. I placed a responce on Talk:Latinic. Thanks for taking an interest anyhow. Ragusan June 29, 2006

from PC

Done. Physchim62 (talk) 14:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Very uncivilised user

Hi,

Please see this.

I am shocked. Could you please block this guy? I feel very offended.

--Ante Perkovic 19:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hahahaha... Cant you have a discussion?

Just because I dont have the same opinion as you doesnt mean that you can behave like that.

And to you Joy: Volim te Bosno!

Joy, are there some rules for users who might have physical problems or are just immature? I think that is the case here. This one doesn't seams to respond to logical arguments. It might be due to war trauma, problems in childhood or we might be dealing with a 12-years old. Whatever, I don't see the point in allowing this user to maltreat other users and vandalise articles. Can you, as an admin, do something about this? --Ante Perkovic 12:19, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi,

The idiot is insulting entire country (our country!). See here. Please, use some of your admin powers to get this idiot (I mean it!) out of wikipedia. --Ante Perkovic 16:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm

Kras? Bojim se da ni(je)sam. O cemu je rijec? --HolyRomanEmperor 14:14, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Usput, jesi li cuo za Ramba Amadeusa ikada? --HolyRomanEmperor 14:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Stefan Nemanja

Sjecam se da si komentirao kako je stub nevjerovatno mali - a sto kazes sada? --HolyRomanEmperor 20:39, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Name

E, ako hoćeš pogledaj ovo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bozen-Bolzano#Wrong_name_of_this_article Taj članak stvarno ima pogrešno ime, a ja ne mogu da mu promenim ime jer na drugom imenu postoji redirekt. Ti kao administrator to verovatno možeš da uradiš, pa bih te zamolio da promeniš ime članku. Na svim mapama koje sam video (na engleskom jeziku) taj grad se zove Bolzano, i nema razloga da Vikipedija ovde odstupa od nekih standarda. PANONIAN (talk) 02:33, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ma dobro, nemam vremena da sad komplikujem i pokrećem proceduru za promenu imena tog članka. Nisam čitao celu stranu za razgovor tamo, pa ako su Italijani već pristali da članak o gradu u Italiji sa etničkom italijanskom većinom ima nemačko ime, neka im bude. Opametiće se već jednom. :) PANONIAN (talk) 23:03, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

HolyRomanEmperor

Only the fact that you earned the same position he was trying to steal. --VKokielov 06:51, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The meaning that - compared to me - you earned that position far more. All true, actually... --HolyRomanEmperor 09:17, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Administratura

Well - your post was responded - almost a dozen were sockpuppets/new users/vandals; and there was a special irc channal created solely for the purpose of stopping the process. What's worst, one user openly admitted that he voted only because his friend voted like that - and starting balloting aroung the Bosnian wikipedia and elsewhere.

Now, really, as long as you don't support - he/she should not be an administrator. So please now just clearly make your statement - your word depends whether I'll stop it, or not. :) --HolyRomanEmperor 08:56, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

HRE has passed away to a better place than this one

Greetings. I am HRE's cousin. I have a sad news to announce (as per his brother's wish) - my dear brother-by-aunt is no more in the world of the living... It pains me enough to write this - so I'm just going to point you to HRE's talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:HolyRomanEmperor#As_per_Your_.28Our.29_brother.27s_request. --Sad News 20:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

HRE RFA

Please do not edit this RFA, it has put under the protection of WP:OFFICE and requested that no edits be made. pschemp | talk 17:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Now I know what I'm doing I've reloaded it under another name - your are right that this is a confusing name for an image file and I never meant it to load up under this - it sort of happened before I realised it! Anyway it's now an orphan so can go. Thanks Sophia 18:25, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pannonian Rusyns

Someones trying to purport that Pannonian Rusyn are a completely different ethnicity from Rusyns though the Rusyns page has an infobox that includes Panonian Rusyn as a minority abroad. I noticed your edit on the talk page and need some support for removing the infobox. We have adamant users who take political correctness of regional identities as overall ethncities too personally. Help! 72.144.68.226 00:00, 7 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WPFY has a new look!

Check out WP:FY. If you wish, you can add {{WPFY}} to your user or talk page to keep in touch with the project. Zocky | picture popups 17:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maps of Bosnia

Hi,

user:Dado has created some new Bosnia locator maps, but without entities marked (except badly visible inter-entity line). I think this is a bad idea, so I created my own maps, with separate colors for each entity (we have that already, but those maps are in low resolution and small).

I couldn't reach a compromise with Dado, and I believe we need third opinion.

Please, see:

Image talk:BHMunicipalities.png (talk page of Dado's map)
Image talk:BH municipality location.gif (talk page of my map)

Could you please find some spare time to comment this. --Ante Perkovic 23:08, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lupis

Hello Joy, I'm sorry to see that you deleted again some correttions of mine. Lupis (wolfes) belong to an aristocratic family of the Italian nobility. A brench moved to the south of Dalmatia and slavized the name in Vukic. Then they moved to Fiume/Rijeka and they italianized again the name in Lupis or Luppis (read the links I inserted). You should know that in that the time the city was a "Corpus separatum" (separated body) of the Hungarian Kindgom, and that the urban population was mostly italian. So, it's not correct if you put the italian name in minor evidence. The turn the name in Lupis was a decision of the family itself, not of some italian nationalist of the 20th century! Furthermore it's not correct if you claim that Lupis is a "croatian engineer". It was from Fiume/Rijeka that belong to italian and croatian culture, in the same time and it's not correct to apply the PRESENT national conditions to the past. You want to impose your point of wiew, and this is against the rules of wikipedia. I will restore my corrections, pleas don't delete them againg or I shall ask for the intrvention of a moderator.

Others: - in the History of the family, wrotten by mr. Marco Lupis, I've seen that he was born in Fiume/Rijeka and he dead in Milan. Just have a look (you can understand this). - It's not possible this story about "italian garibaldines", for the simple reason that they never had a navy. Furthemore when Lupis started to work to the weapons there were not "garibaldini" at all. So....

Anyway I've contacted the family and I hope they will tell thir correct point of view. BTW: the photo came direct from the family: they decided to write Giovanni Ivan Lupis, so don't change it. --Giovanni Giove 09:08, 9 July 2006 (UTC)--Giovanni Giove 09:08, 9 July 2006 (UTC) --- Feel you free to use my comments as you want. Next discussions will be on Lupis' page (as soon as possible).[reply]

--Giovanni Giove 11:35, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bosniak's Reply

They are not spam, all three links (Srebrenica Genocide, plus two links of US Government's reward for capture of Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic) are directly *relevant* to the topics in question, you idiot.

Hey

My name is Avdo. I noticed the poor quality of the Yugoslavia article and saw your name few times in the history of the article. Would you like to restructure the article with me? I don't know much about the tools of Wikipedia, but I'm well educated on the topic. --God of Justice 23:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's not that I want to make too many changes in the text, but just restructure it, because it's not very understandable, some parts are irrelevant, some parts are too long,... I'll try to make some changes, and you can "wikify" them if needed, and we could discuss my changes. How does that sound? --God of Justice 23:23, 10 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mobilkom Austria

Please refer to Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser/Archive5#Querying category/stub order apparently used by AWB as default. If you still feel strongly about it, please ask the author of AWB. --Chochopk 00:22, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Slovenia-Croatia

There are border disputes here. Slovenia is unhappy about Croatia receiving the Piran Bay (Maritime) and Croatia has opposed a number of villages being ceded to Slovenia. Ragusan 16 july 06

All right, no problem Ragusan 22 jul 06

Request for partial protection

Hi! Somebody has been reverting my changes without explanation in the article Ante Starčević. The user is always connecting from a different IP address, but I am pretty sure it is the blocked User:Purger, considering the IP range and his past interest in that topic. Please, can you protect the article from anonymous edits? Since there have already been edit wars in that article, it would be a wise move anyway. --Zmaj 06:18, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lupis POLO Gio

Ovaj Gioavani je smisan. Kako moze biti Ivan Lupis Talijan a nemoze Marco Polo biti Hrvat. Treba biti realan da je jedno i drugo moguce a ne da su oba Taljana. Neznam puno od Lupisu ali moguce je da je Talijan i Hrvat. Za Marca Polo svi znamu da je on 80% moguce bio Hrvat ili Slaven..

Jagoda 1 03:31, 25 July 2006 (UTC) Giovanni if funny. How can Ivan Lupis be Italian yet Marco Polo can't be Croatian. Be Realistic if one is possible so is the other. I don't know much about Lupis but it's possible he was Italian and Croatian. As for Marco Polo we all know that there is 80% chance he was Croat or Slav.[reply]

Jagoda 1 03:31, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Polo

Ajde Joy napise nesto na Marco Polo discussion na Engleskom. Sto to mislis???

Bog

Jagoda 1 03:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ilok

Joy, ajde pogledaj ovo: Talk:Ilok. Imaš li nekih podataka o tome da li su porodice Iločki i Gorjanski bili Hrvati ili Mađari? PANONIAN (talk) 12:51, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You...

...said that you didn't read much of my last posts to judge really. Well, do so now (and comment): Talk:Tvrtko_I_of_Bosnia#Reply_to_Emir.27s_issues. --HRE 11:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your user talk page

May I suggest you archive it? WP:ARCHIVE has instructions if you are unfamiliar with the proccess. Michael Billington (talk • contribs) 11:49, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I know how to archive my talk page, and I don't want to do it. --Joy [shallot] 14:34, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome!

Welcome!

File:World map.gif

Hi, and welcome to the Countries WikiProject! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of counties.

There are a variety of interesting things to do within the project; you're free to participate however much—or little—you like:

Starting some new articles? See some model pages such as Cambodia!
Want to know how good our articles are? The assessment department is working on rating the quality of every country article in Wikipedia.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask another fellow member, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! Shy1520 10:26, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hey

What's up? How've you been? --HolyRomanEmperor 16:18, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know that the very last Serbian monarchs (medieval) were Croats (2 of them)? From the dynasty of Berislalic, I think. Ivanish and Stijepan, "Serb Despots". I wonder why has this been kept "off" the lights of Serbo-Croat history. --HolyRomanEmperor 16:28, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

AfD Nomination: Billy Jackson

An article that you have been involved in editing, Billy Jackson, has been listed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Billy Jackson. Please look there to see why this is, if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.

-- Malber (talk • contribs) 17:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC) [reply]

sjajno

natisni link "ARCHIVE" u sadrzajnici. Zadnji. --VKokielov 23:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They...

they've got an article on the Croatian wikipedia: Berislavići. --PaxEquilibrium 19:04, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Armenia

Please visit the Talk: Armenia and Talk: Armenians pages http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Armenia&action=edit&section=3 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Armenians&action=edit&section=36 please voice your view on the current discussion, there is a small minority that are promoting and point of view that Armenia is geographically in Europe and Armenians are a European people. It is best to serve the factual truth and your support is desperately needed.

molba

(vec ne gledam dole nego samo tiskam "+" :D) mogao bi postaviti na Template:Spoiler ruski wikilink? Ime sablona (predlozka) je isto. --VKokielov 19:31, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Evo, uredio ja :-) --Dijxtra 22:55, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Horovathos.jpg

Hello! I´m a user from es.wikipedia.org and I was translating Croats to my language when I saw that Image. As it is on public domain, I think it will be great if it´s moved to commons. However, I coulden´t found the source in de:wikipedia. Can you help me?--FAR 11:35, 21 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Archive?

How about archive now?

P. S. Why is your activity dropping rapidly? --PaxEquilibrium 22:46, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You (Joy) might want to put a notice on top of your talk page saying "I will not archive my talk page, if you want to know why, read it" or something :-) --Dijxtra 22:57, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Poll

Please, have a say in here. It doesn't matter if you don't really think you have a full-scale solution. --PaxEquilibrium 17:25, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Breakup of Yugoslavia.gif

Thanks for the comments. I'm working on new, corrected maps. The FRY will have a different color to the SFRY. - Thanks, Hoshie 03:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

About disputed POVs on articles related to post-communist Eastern Europe

Hi,

I’m writting this message to you, and to User:Mindspillage and User:BradPatrick, because I still don’t have a full knowledge of how to proceed about Wikipedia administration/mediation/arbitration.

Well, I see there’s a kind of probelm regarding the creation (by myself on november 8) of the article 1999 NATO bombing of Serbia, which I’ve redirected to NATO bombing of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. There’s an edit war going: pro-Serbian users are trying to delete my redirect, and even when people (including myself) manifested against the deletion, the user which requested the deletion made the request again.

Please if you can help me to solve this question.

PS: Above all these problems, I don’t know about you, but I think sometimes there’s a kind of “Serbian Volunteer Guard Cabal” of users here in Wikipedia that try to make Wikipedian articles related to Serbia, Kosovo and Yugoslav Wars appear clearly pro-Greater Serbian/pro-Milosevic POV, making these articles to show an interpretation of facts very different from most of the press and academic sources around the world. A similar thing is happening now on Transnistria article, that show a clear pro-Transnistrian government POV, with a long war of arguments going on the discussion page of the article. Well, I don’t know what you can (or can’t) do about all of this, but if you have some answers pplease write to me. Best regards, --MaGioZal 13:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Breakup of Yugoslavia.gif - fixed!

I have fixed the maps to separate the SFRY and the FRY/SCG/Serbia since the UN never accepted the FRY/SCG as the successor state to the SFRY. I hope this is good. - Thanks, Hoshie 08:12, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

User:Picapica has smiled at you, Joy, a chara! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile at others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Happy editing!

PS: Have you thought about archiving earlier parts of your Discussion page so that the total is not quite so long? -- Picapica 20:24, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Archont Petar

Archont Petar was of Croatian origin. This is proven in the legend on the Duklja article, which says he had a brother, Krešimir.

Where did you get the idea that Archont Petar was a decendant of the Višeslav of Serbia? --Crna Gora 23:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Read this,it's from the link you gave me, under the The Serbs during the fighting between Byzantium and the Second Bulgarian Empire section. Then tell me if Petar was of Croatian or Serbian origin.

During their rule in Rasa the Bulgarians completely exterminated the old Serbian royal family. From 1036 to 1042 Dobroslav, called Stjepan Vojislav, member of an old Croatian family from Duklja, revolted and liberated Duklja and Rasa. --Crna Gora 23:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That is true. The entire Vojislavljević family were of Croat origin too and that Duklja was a Croatian state, not Serbian. Please protect me in this case. I have proof off that site.

The proof:

From 1036 to 1042 Dobroslav, called Stjepan Vojislav, member of an old Croatian family from Duklja, revolted and liberated Duklja and Rasa. - This statement shows that Stjepan Dobroslav I Vojislav was of Croatian origin, meaning that his distant ancestor, Archont Petar, was of Croatian, not Serbian, origin.

Bodin (1081 – 1101), king of medieval Croatian Duklja, ushered in a new political era in Serbia. At the outset of his reign Bodin liberated Rasa from Byzantium and installed as its princes his two palatines Vukan and Marko, both Croats from Duklja born in Ribnica near modern Titograd. - This statement shows that Duklja was actually Croatian, rather than Serbian, which I agree. This statement also shows that the House of Nemanjić is of Croat origin as Vukan is of the Nemanjić's ancestors (Nemanja's great-great uncle or great-grandfather).

On August 3rd, 1189 he ruled over all of Duklja when Dezislava, wife of the last Croatian prince of Duklja, fled with her court to Dubrovnik. - This statement shows that Prince Mihailo III was of Croatian ethnicity.

So, please, help prove my case. Thanks again. --Crna Gora 00:09, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I will. (At least, I'll try) Thanks again. --Crna Gora 00:16, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Explanation

Here, I'll try to be as brief as I can.

Goynik's son is none other than Peter Goynikovic, he is of the House of Vlastimirovic (Viseslavic?) and that alone is solely the fact itself. The argument that he was AFAIC Predimir are nothing but a theory, that I myself (from a professional Original Research) do not approve - and it is very possibly false. The only outlying fact is that Doclea and Rascia literally shared almost no border and function as a single state - but Rascian rulers were always descendants (in many cases even subjected to) of Doclea's monarchs. It is known that every Princess (ahem, "Queen" - Predimir's wife Prechvala for example) of Doclea is rascian. I do not think that that is sourced from DAI - as I understand byzantine chronicler John Scylitzes (and he is popular for making funny non-intentional mistakes) mentioned the Doclean rulers frequently (including Predimir/Petar) as rulers of a larger unified Serbia (possibly emphasizing the fact that the main Serb dynasty in Rascia died-out, while that in the coastlands survived). Aside from that - the Croatian origin legend also remains a myth - just as it is said, that's a legend, expressed through a tale-ish work. No where is it ever said that Petar is the son of Trpimir - however, he is brother to the Croatian ruler Cresimir. Historians mostly explained this by the plain fact that the Arhcbishop of Antivari often in his Chronicles referred to Croatia (Dalmatia?) and Serbia (Rascia?) as brotherlands, and any ruler of one realm is the "brother" of the ruler of the other. However, the (must admit, small) serbo-croat school to which you referred, relies itself on the research that Petar Goynikovich spent his life in the Croatian Kingdom and that the Croatian Army brought him to power in Rascia as Grand Prince, with the new Serb confederate state being subjected to Croatia, but in truth, independent (because the two countries functioned as America and Canada today). It is also known that prince Peter Goynikovic pobratimio with the Croatian ruler (which was typical for noble Serbs impressed by the much more advanced and superior Croat state back then in the early Medieval Ages - Prince Ceslav became the "brother" of the great King Tomislav). This is supported by the thing that Grand Prince Peter of Goynik ruled, among all the other southern dalmatian realms, Doclea...

Did I help? If you have any specific question, any at all, please don't be a stranger. Cheers. ;) --PaxEquilibrium 00:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Archont Petar and Petar Gojniković are two different people. Archont Petar was born in ca. 930. Petar Gojniković was born much earlier. Read this line from the House of Vlastimirović article: "Knez Petar Gojniković (son of Gojnik, grandson of Vlastimir), born ca. 870, ruled 892/3-917/8, captured by Bulgarians, died in captivity. " Those dates are nowhere close to of Archont Petar's. All I know for a fact is that Archont Petar died either during or after the 970s. So, please, don't put false facts in an article unless you do some research. Also, Archont Petar is also called Predimir and in some sources, I am finding the use of Predimir rather than Petar for Archont Petar. This should help. --Crna Gora 02:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Doing something about the ridiculous date autoformatting/linking mess

Dear Joy—you may be interested in putting your name to, or at least commenting on this new push to get the developers to create a parallel syntax that separates autoformatting and linking functions. IMV, it would go a long way towards fixing the untidy blueing of trivial chronological items, and would probably calm the nastiness between the anti- and pro-linking factions in the project. The proposal is to retain the existing function, to reduce the risk of objection from pro-linkers. Tony 01:06, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Gradovi i općine u Hrvatskoj

Na hr:wiki imaš članak popis svih gradova i općina složen po županijama ažuriran sa zadnjim NN koje se tiču ove teme. U popisu je navedena Škabrnja kao općina i kao naselje, iako je neki zovu i Škabrnje (a tako se u prijašnjim NN nazivala). Vodite se NN kao jedinim mjerodavnim.

Pozdrav

Andrej Šalov 16:06, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

question on your emoticon edit from 2004 (yeah, I'm late to the party)

you added these emoticons to the emoticon page:

o/ or \o waving

o\ or /o scratching one's head

/o\ despair

\o/ joy

I was just wondering - did you add them because you had been using them / seeing them around and they weren't on the page, or did you make them up yourself? Because I've seen a few people in a particular fandom claiming that they "made up" the one for joy based on an actor doing it in an episode.

This is vague, but do you know / remember?

Tzikeh 22:49, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hello

Please visit my userpage. Thank you. --Crna Gora 16:42, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your grandfather

...was a Serb/Montenegrin highlander? You've got noble clan blood! :) --PaxEquilibrium 11:30, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Croation Settlements

Please check the discussion on , and the other categories of Croatian cities/towns, because I think we only need three official categories. --Criticalthinker 03:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He, well that's still some nobility. :) Yes, I believe I've read it somewhere on a talk page over which you two fought. Oh and if you didn't hear the (good for many) news, Igor retired. At least there's more peace without him. --PaxEquilibrium 22:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your edit to Wang Laboratories

It is really unfinished. Putting ==Post bankruptcy== where you have has made the Unix subsection an orphan. Please go back and finish the job. Fiddle Faddle 22:18, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Croatian meetup

hey there! croatian meetup was held today due to the 4th anniversary of founding the croatian wikipedia. btw, any signs of you coming back working to hr wiki? West Brom 4ever 19:01, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

my intention was to invite you this morning, but in the moment i went to send you a message, database got locked :/ btw, i am from split, so i wasn't there neither. West Brom 4ever 22:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yugo Films

Hello! I would like to let you know about this article: List of Yugoslavian films and invite you to contribute to it! It is an attempt to gather the finest works of Yugo cinema, including works that have been critically acclaimed, won awards, and are extremely popular among Yugo crowds (minus nationalistic propaganda crap, only nationalism allowed is Yugo nationalism, such as in The Battle of Neretva). Anyway, if you can think of any movies to add, or to simply expand the articles there (including articles on movies, directors, and actors), that would be awesome. Thanks a lot! :) Maîtresse 05:53, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Any?

Any historical request? :)

Cheers. --PaxEquilibrium 01:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I have a question

Hey. Do you know of any good administrator which can look into few things? A certain user which goes by the name of Nikola Smolenski along with the user Paulcicero, have recently started several revert-wars on various articles and I am wondering if there is anyone who can look into this and warn them to stop. Thank you. Tar-Elenion 14:42, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Survey Invitation

Hi there, I am a research student from the National University of Singapore and I wish to invite you to do an online survey about Wikipedia. To compensate you for your time, I am offering a reward of USD$10, either to you or as a donation to the Wikimedia Foundation. For more information, please go to the research home page. Thank you. --WikiInquirer 00:11, 4 March 2007 (UTC)^{talk to me}[reply]

Sretan Uskrs!

--PaxEquilibrium 15:10, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please help

I think I have been wrongly blocked from bs Wikipedia through an administrator who by Wikipedia standards is abusing his powers. I would like to make an official complaint could you help me. Thank you.............

Maps

Lol, what's that with the maps? ;) --PaxEquilibrium 21:01, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Brioni meeting

Did you see it...? --PaxEquilibrium 12:21, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

An open meeting in which Franjo Tudjman and his closest associates and generals talk how they plan to expel the Serbian population, how to evade international reaction and how to deceive the public and hide the truth (openly, exactly and precisely that [a njima cemo govoriti kako cemo im toboze jamciti ljudska prava and a huge laugh from him, Gotovina and several others]).

Some (ICTY) have been discussing that accusation for Genocide should be added to Gotovina's indictment. --PaxEquilibrium 12:27, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lol, man; I've seen it on HRT the whole last day and in RTCG and RTS and Bosnian TV... even CNN reported it. :D --PaxEquilibrium 12:30, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's strange. I watched most of the 18-minute myself. In there Tudjman in detail explains how "if we attack them strongly, they'll generally all leave, the population, everyone, you know how it goes" and the bit about falsely guaranteeing civil rights "toboze jamciti prava" and then a laughter.

So far I've seen two traces of defense from Croatian War criminals at the Hague:

1) They say it's a fake (and it's authenticity was confirmed by the Croatian State Prosecutor and the Hague).

2) When they kept saying "Serbs", they only meant "Army" - again strange. Why would he call the army "the people" and falsely invite it to stay? --PaxEquilibrium 13:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

the argument is that the insects are not heard on the video when Tudjman speaks about organized propaganda against the Serbs. --PaxEquilibrium 13:35, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the full text (from B92):

'Rešiti, na koji način rešiti? To je tema današnje rasprave. Da nanesemo takve udarce da Srbi praktično nestanu, odnosno da ono što nećemo odmah zahvatiti, da može da kapitulira u nekoliko dana

Prema tome, nije nam glavna zadaća Bihać, nego je nanošenje na nekoliko pravaca takvih udara da se srpske snage više ne mogu oporaviti, nego da moraju kapitulirati.

Prema tome, treba predvidjeti i neke snage koje će izravno djelovati prema Kninu, a osobito... Gospodo, prisjetite se koliko je hrvatskih mjesta i gradova razoreno, u Kninu još nije danas tako…

Then Gotovina goes: Predsedniče, u ovom trenutku mi kompletno s našom tehnikom kontroliramo Knin. Nije uopće to... ako je zapoved udar na Knin, mi ga za nekoliko sati rušimo kompletno.

Tudjman continues: S tim što sam rekao, i ovo što smo kazali, da im ovdje treba dati izlaz, da mogu... jer to je važno da i ti civili pođu, pa će onda i vojska i tako da kad kolone pođu, to djeluje psihološki jedni na druge

Jedan letak ovako, znači: opće rasulo, pobeda hrvatske vojske uz podršku svijeta itd. "Srbi, vi se već povlačite preko" itd, "a mi vas pozivamo da se ne trebate povlačiti, mi vam jamčimo"... Znači, na taj način im dati put, a jamčiti tobože građanska prava (osmeh) itd.

I think it speaks enough, and is only one bit of the whole speech... --PaxEquilibrium 13:43, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Racan

It's sad that he died... at least to my opinion.

BTW the situation of relations between Serbia and Croatia does not look good. Various shows have been recently on Serbian TV stations and they were all dedicated to Croatia. Discussions whether Croatia is extremely hostile to Serbia and the Serbs was main. As you know, Serbia had lodged an official protest against Croatia's campaigning to revise the decision of the ICJ regarding the Bosnian Genocide case, at the Brioni video made things only worse.

The extremist circles of Serbia (SRS) demand ceasing of all diplomatic relations with Croatia until the next election, and restore them if HDZ loses the election - and if it remains, keep it that way (not likely gonna happen though). --PaxEquilibrium 20:59, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Molise Croats

Hey, i just read the article on Molise Croats. Someone has gone in there and edited into Molise Serbs.

Can you please fix it?

This is one of the reason i left Wiki. Too many pov edits. To claim Molsie Croats as Serbs is out of this world.

Jagoda 1 03:38, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]