User talk:Grandmaster

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Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan

The arbitration case involving you has closed. The Arbitration Committee has placed you on standard revert parole for a year. This means that you may revert only once per article per week except to revert obvious vandalism. Furthermore, you must explain your reasonings for content reverts on the associated talk page.

You may review the full decision at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan.

For the Arbitration Committee, - Penwhale | ^{Blast him / Follow his steps} 01:17, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I saw your question over at TT's page. Regarding your question, edits by sock puppets of banned users are considered vandalisms and can be reverted on sight regardless of the revert parole/3RR limit. - Penwhale | ^{Blast him / Follow his steps} 09:23, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Err on the safe side. Let other people take care of it if you're not sure. (Obviously, though, some of them you can justify via edit patterns.) - Penwhale | ^{Blast him / Follow his steps} 09:49, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding AN/I, did you try requests for checkuser? That will help too, methinks. - Penwhale | ^{Blast him / Follow his steps} 10:01, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Request for Comment on ARF

Following advise of admin Thatcher131, I have created RfC page on ARF. You can put your short comments on talkpage, as per RfC guidance - see example [1]--Dacy69 20:00, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ganja

If you find the sources inadequate, then say so. Don't say "unsourced". It was most certainly sourced. --Golbez 11:39, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The edit I reverted (not made by you, but being defended by you) was summarized as unsourced. I greatly dislike false edit summaries. --Golbez 11:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Azerbaijan SSR

Grandmaster, could you translate the Anthem of Azerbaijan SSR into English? I've asked other Azeri users this before, but they didn't do anything about it. I think that it's about time we see English lyrics to this. -- Aivazovsky 03:01, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I really have no time for doing it right now. Maybe I'll get someone to do it. Thanks for getting in touch. Grandmaster 13:39, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Iranica

Read the Iranica article. Iranica says "...parts of Arran and Azerbaijan".Azerbaijani 14:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ATAÚBAKAÚN-E AÚD¨ARBAÚYÔAÚN, an influential family of military slave origin, also called Ildegozids, ruled parts of Arra@n and Azerbaijan from about 530/1135-36 to 622/1225; as “Great Ata@baks” (ata@baka@n-e a¿záam) of the Saljuq sultans of Persian Iraq (western Iran), they effectively controlled the sultans from 555/1160 to 587/1181; in their third phase they were again local rulers in Arra@n and Azerbaijan until the territories which had not already been lost to the Georgians, were seized by Ôala@l-al-d^n K¨úa@razmÞa@h in 622/1225.

Straight from the Iranica article. Why change Iranica's wording?Azerbaijani 06:04, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Iranica is not the only source. Minorsky said:

By that time the great Seljuks were gone and their epigoni were eclipsed by their former vassals. The latter, when united, represented a serious force, but the Georgians, with their allies and vassals from Northern Caucasus (the Qipchaq Turks), could cope with any ephemeral coalitions. Only with the rise of the atabeks of Azarbayjan (the Eldiguzids) was a brake put on the Georgian expansion in two directions: to the South-towards the Armenian lands deprived of their independence by the Muslims; and to the East-towards the Caspian sea. It is true that the rulers of Shirvan had been linked to the Georgians by family ties; but Ganja,2 on the Georgians' right flank, formed a brake on the forward policy of the Christian kings.

The article in Iranica also says that Atabeks controlled Ani, which is in Turkey. So clearly Atabeks controlled larger area, which included the territory of modern day Azerbaijan (both independent and Iranian), Armenia and part of Turkey. Grandmaster 06:15, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, how strange, why is it that Iranica is not acceptable for you now? Also, Minorsky does not mention any definitive boundary.Azerbaijani 15:02, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not saying it is not acceptable, but South Caucasus does not contradict Iranica. It inludes Arran as well. Grandmaster 06:10, 5 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So what happened on Mammed Said Ordubadi when South Caucasus was not acceptable? I see this as harassment. You, Atabek, and Elsanaturk have been harrassing me these past couple days, and now I have the diff's to prove it. I will give you a chance to revert yourself, if not, I will have to talk to Thatcher about this harassment.Azerbaijani 19:38, 5 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I know who is this person. There is no need to discuss with him/her here Babakexorramdin 17:44, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

C Праздником!

File:Red-flag-on-Reichstag, another angle, no smoke..jpg

НАШЕ ДЕЛО ПРАВОЕ — МЫ ПОБЕДИЛИ
-Kuban Cossack

Beylagan

Hi ! you said

" That was an interesting info you added to Beylagan. Could you please provide better description of the source? i.e. Musa Khareni = Moses of Chorene? What was the title of the book, etc. Thanks. --Grandmaster 04:47, 1 May 2007 (UTC) "

I get the info from here: etymology of the name Baku

"موسی خورینی در کتاب جغرافیای خود در گفتگو از پایداقاران (بیلقان) که شهری در آران بوده و در آن زمان باکو از اطراف آن بحساب می‌‌آمده، نام آنجا را باگوان می‌‌نویسد"
"when Moses of Chorene in his book «Treatise on Geography»,talks about the Paydagharen(Beylagan), which was a town in Arran,and in that time Baku was a part of that place , names the Baku as Baguwan "
We also have a small town near Tehran(Karaj) with this name ! "Bileqan" 35.832367°00′N 51.042686°00′E / 35.832°N 51.043°E / 35.832; 51.043{{#coordinates:}}: invalid latitude

, I think importance of this name for you is in that name is not Armenian : I do think so:that's not Armenian. --Alborz Fallah 10:46, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That book is available online in Russian. I think you are talking about Armenian geography. It indeed has a chapter on Paytakaran, but says nothing about the etymology of the word. Bagawan is located in Iran, close to Azerbaijani border. I'm really interested in this issue, but we need to check the sources to make sure that the reference is accurate. I personally think that Paytakaran is the word of Iranian origin, as the region was populated by Iranian speakers in ancient times, but we need some neutral or antique primary sources to support that. Grandmaster 04:46, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

paytakaran

Maybe I missed something - Paytakaran dispute was resolved acording to Thanatosimi version or not? Anyway, it seems that dispute began again and your comment would be relevant--Dacy69 18:47, 18 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That Wiki-page is important : Paytakaran ! Then you mean that's not Beylagan's etymology... and that place (Paytakaran) is some other place than today's Beylagan (Perhaps some place near today's Baku ) ! I think I have to do more research . Thank's for info ! --Alborz Fallah 21:07, 18 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

DYK

Did you know? was updated. On 23 May, 2007, a fact from the article Hasan bey Zardabi, which you recently nominated, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Smee 05:30, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Work

Hi, Grandmaster. I'm about to made the Azerbaijan article a GA in the nearest future, feel free to join at any time. --Brand спойт 22:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC) [reply]

.

I'm thinking on somebody's help for drafting the history section according to WP:V, I'll take care of the rest. --Brand спойт 17:19, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

the rus'

hi, grandmaster, have you seen today's featured article? it is partly about wikiproject azerbaijan, isn't it? --Ateshi - Baghavan 22:54, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is. But our wikiproject did not contribute much to it. Grandmaster 04:23, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

accusation

stop ur wrong accusations! If you have problem, then ask an admin! I rather think that you are the same person as Atabek! --84.58.40.137 13:10, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've asked the admins to check you. Grandmaster 13:12, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ugly text

hello. Grandmaster, i always wanted to ask, is there anything in wiki which can help to align texts so that they will be symmetric, that is now they look so ugly, one is long, one is short. ye'ni metni duz kvadaratfason saxlamq uchun neynemek lazimdir? Ateshi - Baghavan 21:21, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, there's nothing you can do with the alignment. Grandmaster 09:02, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

For this: [2] I was going to do it this morning but now I dont have to.Hajji Piruz 14:14, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. Grandmaster 06:13, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

RfC by Azerbaijani

Can you please, input your opinion [3]. Thanks. Atabek 01:26, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Leyla Mammadbeyova

Did you know? was updated. On 10 June, 2007, a fact from the article Leyla Mammadbeyova, which you recently nominated, was featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 01:35, 10 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ANI

Since it's archived, I might as well post it on your user page:

You are accusing me of attempting to turn Wikipedia into a battleground along the national lines? Why aren't you honesty with yourself? Why don't you say why I got mad, which was preciously because you were attempting to do just that. Were there any problems before you and Dacy69 claimed that a source should not be used because its author happens to be an Armenian? I am frustrated by such inflammatory racism aimed at Armenians. Meanwhile, at the exact same time you had no problem supporting your claims based on an institution based in Azerbaijan? Dismissing sources on the basis of the author’s ethnicity? Now you are weighting this down a little bit away from administrators’ sight. Do we really need pointers to refresh your memory as to how this happened? Dacy69, you, Parishan, Zondi, Ulvi_I simultaneously attacked by edits to this article. I do not see this as coincidence, but attack aimed at scaring away an Armenian editor from this article. Check the edit summery of Ulvi before criticizing me. A friend of mine was living in Azerbaijan before he had to leave everything behind and he remembers very well what Ulvi publicly wrote addressing to the Azerbaijani government about turning Armenian Churches in Azerbaijan into Museums on so-called Azerbaijani genocides perpetrated by Armenians. Further, let’s not forget the removal of the inscription on the church of Nizh, under Norwegian "restorative" supervision and revision of the churches’ Armenian identity.

Hetoum I 00:46, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Look, it is not my personal idea that we should use third party sources. I quoted the rules, and you need to abide by them. End of story. I don't use Azerbaijani sources, you should not use Armenians either. Also, mind WP:AGF. Grandmaster 04:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Qabala Radar

Did you know? was updated. On 12 June, 2007, a fact from the article Qabala Radar, which you recently nominated, was featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 16:40, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Qaynaqlar

Grandməster, evaluated the sources as per your request. Will be more than happy to assist on transliterations. Mehrdad 18:08, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image

Hi. You have downloaded an image [4]. Do you know the source of the image? Thanks. Alexander Mayorov 08:37, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No. Why? It is PD, we can use it here. Grandmaster 06:22, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But someone made the photograph of the stone and the author has all copyrights for the image. We are using this image here. This article will became a featured article when we sort out the question of the image's licence. Alexander Mayorov 12:20, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is from this source: P.M. Vaidov, V.P. Fomenko, Srednevekoviy xram v Mingechaure: Materialnaia kultura Azerbayjana, t.II, Baku , 1951. Grandmaster 12:24, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Alexander Mayorov 13:17, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Arbcom

The Armenia Azerbaijan arbcom is once against being opened and you are an involved party: [5].Hajji Piruz 18:03, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

cultural autonomy in Iran Vs. USSR

" I would say that USSR was lot more liberal in terms of cultural autonomy that Iran ever was" [6].
Don't you think the Culture and language are not equal? Do you mean some aspects of the culture such as religion and custom (e.g. conventional women dress) where free in USSR?! Or are you saying that the familial relations were free (such as conventional father-son relations)?!
As I said before, you think Iranian government actively suppresses local languages, but that's not true: it only does not participate in teaching local language; that's all! Your problem is in that your source of information is either political dissidents or biased media. Political dissidents show the reality in a way to satisfy both the host-country/supporter and themselves: they have to find an answer to why they are different from the ordinary people and why they have to get out of normal position and homeland: that picture will sure be an unreal one: say, do you think the picture that John Walker Lindh depicts about America, can be a reliable one?! And about the amnesty international, don't forget that's a group that is officially devoted to protect the human rights and that means it is hypersensitive and hyper reactive to any thing that can potentially be a treat to human rights (That's a pressure group) , then that means their view is also biased. In the case of Iran, you have to add the hatered of western media against Iran , and most of the world view is built on the westerners view . Baghishlasoz ke Chox danishdim....--Alborz Fallah 19:04, 23 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, religion was suppressed in the USSR, sometimes violently. They destroyed mosques and churches, arrested mullahs and priests. Conventional dress as far as I know was not banned, but you could not go anywhere dressed like that. It was not welcomed. But when it came to language and culture, I still beleive that USSR was a lot more liberal than any other country. As for HRW and others, I tend to trust them. They are quite critical about my country too, and I cannot say that their claims are baseless. They are critical of everyone, including the US and Israel, and I find HRW trustworthy. I'm not going to actively participate in Iran related articles, I may occasionally contribute a like or two, but I beleive we all want to present objective info, so we should look forthe best ways to present the fatcs and veiws in accordance with NPOV. Thanks for writing me, always a pleasure to talk with Azeris from Iran, and not only Azeris. Grandmaster 07:39, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, - Penwhale | ^{Blast him / Follow his steps} 16:42, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Time

On behalf of the meeting, may be this Saturday or Sunday if possible? Despite of awful current situation with web, I may help on Wiki where needed (drop a line here or on my talk page at this time). Congrats --Brand спойт 19:15, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tomorrow by the Nizami cinema entrance? At 5 PM for instance. --Brand спойт 16:43, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I had an urgent matter to be done, not this day. --Brand спойт 14:38, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Parole

Grandmaster, please do not forget your revert parole per arbcom. In Brenda Shaffer you have reverted twice in two days. I do not want to block you but the next time I will, arbcom is arbcom. Sorry Alex Bakharev 05:32, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Alex. I remember about the parole, but I reverted the article only once. This was my edit: [7], and this was my revert to it: [8] As you can see, I made only 1 rv, as my first edit was not an rv to any previous version. Grandmaster 06:15, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Btw, by the same token User:Hajji Piruz should also be considered to be in violation of his parole for making these two edits: [9] [10] However, it is not a violation either, as the first one was an edit, and second one an actual revert. Grandmaster 06:55, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I do not get it

Arbcom Hi. Please be aware that you've been named as a party to an arbcom case here: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2. Regards, Grandmaster 12:10, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Can you tell me Mr. Novruzov, where and if only where I have been discussing something about Armenia- Azerbaijan? This makes no sense at all. --Babakexorramdin 20:01, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Babakexorramdin"

I'm not "Mr. Novruzov", and the name Armenia - Azerbaijan is provisional, it actually covers all region related disruptive actions. In my opinion your behavior on Iranian peoples crossed the line, and I thought that arbitrators could help determine who was in the wrong there. Grandmaster 04:15, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Iranian peoples article has nothing to do with Armenia-Azerbaijan issue. And it was you who crossed the line by removing the sources. --Babakexorramdin 09:41, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

VartanM

Yeah, I saw that, but I'm not going to double up on the warnings. --Golbez 07:48, 13 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tajik ?

I've seen this, so I thought you might be interested. User talk:82.83.149.154 is also from the same city. It seems to me that the checkuser requests are easily rejected on grounds of incompleteness, etc. What should I pay attention to if I want to file a Checkuser request? Thanks Deniz^T_C 04:48, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Personal request

Hi again ! Allahdan istiram ky sagh olasan ....
As a personal request , I want to ask for one of my Jewish friends in iran , that do you know any websites of Jewish Aseries and/or an e - mail adress for contact ?
That friend of mine is a reletively rich person and he wants to find a wife for himself ,but the problem is in that the community of Iranian jews is a small one and he is some kind of optimist so he want's to take a chance in other regions. Anyway , Iran's reputation is (falsely)no so good in other countries about the jews and many of his options are ruled out by that . Anyway I knew about Azerbijan's jew and I thought I could help him in someway .
Sagh olasan va chox da tashakkour edirm . --Alborz Fallah 16:51, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2 Closed

The case in which you were involved in was closed. According to the records, you were placed on revert parole (now called revert limitations), and as such, you are affected by this remedy, which places you on supervised editing. You may be banned by any administrator from editing any or all articles which relate to the region of Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Iran and the ethnic and historical issues related to that area should you fail to maintain a reasonable degree of civility in your interactions with another editor concerning disputes which may arise.

You may view the full decision at the case page here.

For the Arbitration Committee,
- Penwhale | ^{Blast him / Follow his steps} 00:12, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ARBITRATION ABOUT AZERI IN WAFFEN SS

I did some time ago some modifications about “ Azeri Waffen SS Volunteer Formations” I deleted the excerpts from memoirs of Hans Thieme, an intelligence lieutenant of the 203rd Division of Wehrmacht I explained why I did those changes in the talk page KAMINSKY or DIRLEWANGER After some researches I have deleted the very dubious "Hans Thieme, an intelligence lieutenant of the 203rd Division" "The Azerbaijani battalion or the “infamous plunderer’s brigade of Kaminski“ Unfortunately ,no Azerbaijani under Kaminsky orders.They were 1,700 soldiers of the Waffen-SS Brigade RONA (Russkaya Osvoboditelnaya Narodnaya Armiya), a Russian collaborating force headed by Waffen Brigadeführer Bronislaw Kaminski. The RONA brigade, at the time of the Warsaw Uprising, was comprised mostly of Russians with Belorussian and Ukrainian minorities. Most were volunteers, ex-POWs, and Red Army deserters. When Warsaw uprising broke on August 1, 1944 RONA was stationed in Silesia (vicinity of Rattibor - Raciborz) and Muensingen manoeuver/training ground in Wurttemberg. On August 2nd, 1700 of unmarried men has been selected for action in Warsaw with 2 regiments supplied with 2x122mm and 2x76mm guns formed out of them. It operated, under the operational command of deputy Brig.Staff Major Yuri Frolov, mostly in Ochota district area, then closed in to the center of the city (Dzieciatka Jezus hospital at Nowogrodzka Street)

Wola killings were mostly inflicted by elements of Kampfgruppe Reinefarth that assaulted the area held by the insurgents from the west. It is hard to determine which specific units are to be held responsible but the main 'cleansing' tasks has been assigned to Angriffsgruppe Dirlewanger with following forces: 2 Grenadier Batallions (I & II) of SS Sturmbrigade Dirlewanger + Aserbeidschanische Feld Bataillon I./111 (com. Hptm. Werner Scharrenberg) + Ostmuselmanisches SS Regiment (without Batallion III) II Btl. "Bergmann" - [without 7. Komp.] Ltn. Mertelsmann Gendermerie Operationsgruppe Walter (2 gendarmerie Komp.) Komp. I & II of Aserb. Feld Btl. I/111 Anti-aircraft battery of 80th Regiment Sturmpanzer-Kompanie z.b.V. 218 [8x Brummbär] Hptm. Kellmann 1/2 of machine gun 4.Kompanie of Aserb. Feld Btl. I/111 1. Platoon of 654. Pioniere Batallion 1 KRONE flamethrower unit (8x Flammenwerfer 41)

User fedayee re-inserted the deleted part 12:55, 31 August 2007 Fedayee (Talk | contribs) (10,408 bytes) (re-inserting sourced info that was vandalised by IP a few weeks ago.) I am not use to Wikipedia but I am certainly not a vandal . They were Azeris in Warsaw ,no doubt about that and I did quite a lot of researches about Azeris in the German Osttruppen. They were not in the Kaminsky Rona in Warsaw every specialist of this topic know that. Kaminsky and Dirlewange were not in the same part of Warsaw . Last Kaminsky was a Pole not a “Caucasian”. So Grandmaster I am not going to declare war to this “Fedayee” .And I am not going to write about Dro or Nzhdeh collaboration with the German Reich or anything about Armenians in general.I just mind my own business.

Soyutma as my grandfather use to say. Sag ol.

Zulfugar 13:24, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

edits by banned user

Quoting WP:BAN: "Other users are generally expected to refrain from reinstating any edits made by banned users. Users that nonetheless reinstate such edits take complete responsibility for that content by so doing." Vartan is taking responsibility for the edits, therefore they are no longer made by a banned user. He is not puppeting for them, as it is only a single edit he is keeping. --Golbez 13:28, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Then deal with it on that alone, without citing it as an edit by a banned user. --Golbez 14:02, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

checkuser procedure

You recently compiled and listed a case at requests for checkuser. A checkuser or clerk has requested you supply one or more diffs to justify the use of the checkuser procedure in the case, in accordance with the procedures listed in the table at the top of the requests for checkuser page. For an outcome to be achieved, we require that you provide these diffs as soon as possible. This has been implemented to reduce difficulties for checkusers, and is essential for your case to be processed. A link to your recently-created case which has this information missing is here. Thanks for your co-operation. -- lucasbfr ^talk 16:24, 2 September 2007 (UTC), checkuser clerk.[reply]

Salaam

In talk page of Brenda Shaffer, You said Journal for International Security Affairs is more scholarly than Harpers magazine. the above link is for now "red", please make an article for that magazine. If the citation in that article implies its "academic value", me "myself" will re-include it. cheers,--Pejman47 18:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

RE:

Not a nice thing to do? Did you complain about Anatolmethanol? Have you ever requested a checkusers on him before I admitted while I could have kept it a secret that it was me? In fact, you found nothing wrong in his conduct before you knew it was me. But after that, Anatol contribution was reduced to baiting other contributors to report them to arbitrators. And for your information Anatol was first created to counter Flavius disruption, a user who was previously banned indefinitly but also escaped his ban and continued making personal attacks worst than mine, since it was included also in edit summaries and this while the arbitration was proceeding. This shows how seriously the arbitration check evidences. And welcome Adil the mutiple sock user after his ban expire, since I could not do it myself, guess why? No one ever thought of ever reseting his ban each and every time he's been escaping it. Drosophilawhodoestnotfly 15:43, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]