Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel

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Can you take a look

I received a warning from Palestinian editors for editing the article "History of the name Palestine" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_name_Palestine After posting the section listed bellow I received this "official warning" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Tritomex How I can protect my rights or contact the arbitration?

"==Etymology== The name Palestine refers to a region of the eastern Mediterranean coast from the sea to the Jordan valley and from the southern Negev desert to the Galilee lake region in the north. The word itself derives from “Plesheth”, a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as “Philistine”. Plesheth, (root palash) was a general term meaning rolling or migratory. This referred to the Philistine’s invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea. The Philistines were not Arabs nor even Semites, they were most closely related to the Greeks originating from Asia Minor and Greek localities.The name of the Philistines in their own language is not known; however, the Bible also relates them as the people of "Kaftor" (כפתור in Hebrew, see for example the Book of Jeremiah Chapter 47, Verse 4). "Kaftor" is not of Hebrew or Semitic origin, which supports the possibility that this word is similar to the name they called themselves."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Tritomex Thanks

Hadashot Arkheologiyot – Excavations and Surveys in Israel, http://www.hadashot-esi.org.il

The web-site for Hadashot Arkheologiyot – Excavations and Surveys in Israel, http://www.hadashot-esi.org.il, seem not to have been working for the last few days (It was ok up until a week ago). Does anyone know what has happend? Cheers, Huldra (talk)

Characteristics of the wars of Israel

This section, which used to appear in the article Wars involving Israel for quite a long while, has recently been removed repeatedly by the users DePiep and Sean.hoyland whom claim that it should be removed because it is Original Research. Do you think it should be included? If so, please help improve the content of that section (proofreading + adding more reliable sources). TheCuriousGnome (talk) 14:11, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

The section strikes me as fair, but if there are no sources then it's a problem if some editors disagree with the content. Martin van Creveld's The Sword and the Olive might back up the facts in the section, but I don't have a digital copy and don't remember where to look. If you find a digital copy I'll be happy to at least try to find relevant passages there. Otherwise we can use more generic sources, but it's hard for me to say which as most of my sources are very specific and I have very few generic ones. —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 14:47, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

The users who removed it are legitimate in removing it, as it's uncited. Therefore, I propose that we work here to add references to it and then put it back in.

Ynhockey, here http://books.google.com/books?id=baa0OKb51rIC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=falseis a digital copy of the book. --Activism1234 16:02, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

As this only concerns a single article, the article talk page is probably the best place for continued discussion. --Frederico1234 (talk) 04:43, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Activism1234: the book doesn't seem to have either a full or partial preview. If you have a copy I believe you can legally send me one since I own the book, so feel free to do so by email :) —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 08:00, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Ynhockey, can you please clarify? If you click on the link I gave, it will take you to the book, and you'll be able to read most of it. A few pages are left out. There's also a search tool on the left side that will take you to specific pages. If you remind me in about 10 hours, I can look at what was removed and add in refs from the book where appropriate. --Activism1234 13:14, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

I Created Two New Useful Maps Today

Jewish Holocaust death toll as a % of the total pre-war Jewish population

Cumulative aliyah numbers by country since 1948 or before 1948 if pre-1948 data is available.

Please comment, everyone. Futurist110 (talk) 06:51, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi Futurist110,

The maps are nice and cover an important subject. However, a few comments: the first map's legend is completely broken, it doesn't display the stats and the squares aren't aligned correctly. This might be an export issue with your vector graphics software, but without fixing this it's very hard to read the map.

Regarding the second map, it looks good but the data is unlikely and you should try to provide a source for it. It's also unclear why the year that this map was based on was picked, and whether it's related to the data; were there really over 50,000 olim from Ethiopia prior to 1959?

Overall these maps have great potential to be used in articles, hopefully you can address the issues above.

Cheers, Ynhockey ^(Talk) 08:05, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I am aware that the legend for the first map doesn't work. I tried fixing it but for some reason my graphics software doesn't display the text. In regards to the second map, the data is 100% accurate. The reason I used the 1959 map as a source rather than the modern map is because Israel apparently doesn't list aliyah statistics by each Soviet country, and thus rather than use a modern map and erase all the Soviet country borders (which is very time-consuming and annoying), I just used an old map where the U.S.S.R. was displayed. If you notice, I combined Egypt and Sudan as well, as well as India and Pakistan, since Israel doesn't have separate aliyah data for those countries. The aliyah numbers are for 1882-2010 for each country, or for the earliest available year (1919, 1948) if there is no data for 1882. Yes, there were over 50,000 olim (to be more accurate, 86 thousand olim) from Ethiopia between 1948 and 2010 (Ethiopia does not have aliyah data for before 1948).

For the record, I put a legend on the description part of both maps.

Anyway, thank you very much for the compliments. Futurist110 (talk) 16:47, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

I created another useful map yesterday.

The Jewish population growth/decline by country between 1945-1946 and 2010. The countries with the greatest Jewish population losses since 1945 were primarily those in Eastern Europe, which had Communist governments for most of the late 20th century.

Futurist110 (talk) 19:38, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

In both cases you should list on the image description page where you got the data from and include information about the exact meaning of the data as you have described above. That will make the images much more useful. Zero^talk 00:52, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Just as a curious side question... What program(s) do you use to create these maps? --Activism1234 01:09, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

I used Inkscape to create these maps. As for the sources, I put some of the sources on the Wikipedia pages that these images are located on. Futurist110 (talk) 07:18, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I've removed the maps from the articles they're used on. Two of them have unnecessary whitespace, none of them has a key, and the third one has a huge amount of OR in the caption. Number 57 08:18, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I think that it would have been much better to improve my maps and captions rather than to simply remove them. I'm new at using Inkscape, so I might have made some technical mistakes, but they're still good, accurate, reliable maps. Futurist110 (talk) 03:39, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

We can't have incomprehensible material cluttering up the article. It's no commentary on you; it just does't rise to the quality standards to which we need to adhere. Being intimately familiar with Inkscape, I suspect you're most likely using the "Save" function rather than "Export". I could be wrong, but you might want to try that and see if it helps (make sure you have all the image elements selected before exporting, as well). Evanh2008 ^{(talk|contribs)} 03:51, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Futurist, unfortunately there are too many flaws in your maps to use them at this point, aside from technical glitches. For instance, if the Aliyah data is from 1882–2010, then you shouldn't use a 1959 map, or if you do you should make it clear on the file page (or on the map itself) what years the data covers and why the map isn't "realistic". Moreover, as Zero0000 said, you need to provide sources for the information on your map, otherwise it's difficult to verify. Hopefully you address all the issues raised here so that your maps can be used in the future. —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 21:55, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I have now fixed the Holocaust death toll % map and provided sources for it. I will fix the other two maps later. Futurist110 (talk) 23:18, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

I have now fixed the European Jewish % population change between 1945/1946 and 2010 map. Futurist110 (talk) 00:11, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I have now fixed the historical Aliyah map as well. As for why I chose the 1959 map, again, it's because there is no separate aliyah data available for the Soviet republics or for India, Pakistan, Egypt, and Sudan. Futurist110 (talk) 20:48, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I have now created three more useful maps. Futurist110 (talk) 07:06, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Jewish % of the population in each SSR in 1939

Jewish % of the population in each SSR in 1959

Jewish % of the population in each SSR in 1989

A few comments:

1. The key for these maps needs making properly, rather than imposing text on the maps.
2. The numerical divisions seem random and are not consistent (I'd expect 0-20, 20-40, 40-60 etc)
3. The phrasing in the caption of the third map "As evidenced by this map" needs to be deleted immediately as is a violation of WP:OR. Number 57 08:26, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
4. The second map needs the grey "no data available" to be added to the key, as there's clearly been immigration from Australia and some other countries not coloured. Number 57 08:26, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Let me respond to each of these:

1. Why does it need to be made properly? What's wrong with the way that I did it?
2. I can fix that.
3. I already fixed that right now.
4. The grey does not mean "no data available" for the aliyah map. If you'd look at my scale (on the map itself), the gray means 0 to 9,999. Futurist110 (talk) 21:21, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Upgrade Egypt-Israel border attack

Can someone review the article 2012 Egyptian-Israeli border attack and see whether it should be upgraded to a B article? I feel it should. The article is highly detailed, well formatted, a great infobox complete with a map and tons of references, easy to navigate, and has important information.

Thanks.

--Activism1234 04:49, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

This article seems to be looking good, but I don't know how to upgrade articles or what a B article requires, and thus am unfortunately unable to help you out on this. Futurist110 (talk) 00:26, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

That's ok. I decided to seek "Good article" status for it, instead of B status. You can see that here. Anyone who hasn't expanded or nominated the article is allowed to review it on the nominations page I linked to, in accordance with good article criteria (although they should know more about that first). Waiting for someone to start it. --Activism1234 00:28, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Is the Bat Ayin ax attack notable enough to be included in Wikipedia?

Please share your knowledge on the matter in the AfD which is currently taking place. Thank you. TheCuriousGnome (talk) 19:45, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Invitation to discussion

There is a discussion on the Beitar Illit about the removal of part of a generic text which is sourced to general sources, not specific to Beitar Illit. Please weigh in. Debresser (talk) 15:14, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Possible problem with Israel regional council templates

This is about the templates in Category:Israel_regional_council_templates. I put a couple of these on my user page to remind me of things I wanted to work on later. Today I noticed that they were making my user page show up in the associated categories for the regional councils (Category:Mateh Binyamin Regional Council and Category:Gush Etzion Regional Council to be specific). Looking at the source of the templates, Template:Mateh Binyamin Regional Council and Template:Gush Etzion Regional Council I saw that the categories that the templates were in weren't included inside the noinclude tags. This has the effect of including any article that the template is transcluded in in the associated category, which is nice, but according to the documentation at Help:Template#Documentation_and_categories it's discouraged for inclusion into content categories. I suppose it's discouraged because if the template is used anywhere outside of article space the content categories end up with a lot of stuff in them that shouldn't be there (like my user page, e.g.). I changed the two templates mentioned above so that the content categories were inside the noinclude tags, but this had the unfortunate side effect of removing all the entries from their content categories. I went through every page in the two templates and put in the appropriate content category by hand, but I don't have the will to do it for the others. It seems as if it'd be something a bot could do, but I have no idea who to ask or how to do that. Thus I figured I'd ask here, since all the templates are of interest to this WikiProject. Cheers!— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 23:40, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

If you want to put a template like this on your user page, substitute it there (i.e. {{subst:Gush Etzion Regional Council}}) - that way your userpage won't appear in any categories. Number 57 08:13, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Why is that a better solution than following the guidelines for templates? Don't you want to talk about it? What if other people who aren't paying attention put the templates on non-article-space pages?— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 14:53, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm not saying it's a better solution, just that it is one. The existing system has worked ok for about four years now, so I don't really see the rush to change it, but of course you're welcome to do so if you wish (although remember to put the Regional Council articles themselves in the category – you left Gush Etzion Regional Council out of its own category!). However, I'm surprised you managed to find some obscure policy on templates but couldn't find Wikipedia:Bot requests. Number 57 15:06, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I know about the bot requests page. I didn't want to initiate some sweeping change on templates of interest to this wikiproject without a discussion, which I'll still wait to see if others have an opinion on. It's not an obscure policy to people who write templates, which I do. I left the template out of the its own category because it's not so common to include templates in content categories, although I suppose there's no problem with having them in there.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 15:16, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

OK, apologies, I just interpreted "It seems as if it'd be something a bot could do, but I have no idea who to ask or how to do that" as you not knowing. I created probably the majority of those templates (and hundreds of others for elections), but had never heard of that guideline. Also I meant that you left the main article (Gush Etzion Regional Council) out of its own category, not the template, but I've since fixed it. Cheers, Number 57 16:04, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, on rereading my original comment, I realized that that sentence was probably why you said that. What I meant to say there was "I have no idea who it would be acceptable to ask or how to do that in a way that would be agreeable to people who were interested." It's so hard to type clearly!— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 16:16, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

OK, I tried that and it put the entire source code for the template on my user page including the one category that wasn't between the noinclude tags. So your suggestion is to paste the code for the template on to my user page essentially and then remove the included category by hand? By the way, I'm sorry I didn't fix the Judea and Samaria area ones, it must have slipped my mind. I notice that you didn't revert the two regional council templates that I changed where I added the category to every entry by hand. Does that mean that this feels like an OK solution to you? If so, perhaps you wouldn't mind if I tried to scrape up a bot to change them all in order to address the wider issue?— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 15:06, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Go for it. Number 57 15:11, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I think I'll wait a few days to see if there are other opinions, but thanks for your approval!— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 15:28, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Jerusalem

There is a discussion taking place on Talk:Jerusalem about fundamental changes to the introduction of the article. People are encouraged to take part. Thanks BritishWatcher (talk) 10:56, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Crusader priod in the history of Jesusalem (city)

I made some effort in rescuing and cleaning the machine-translated article (now moved into my user space) User:Staszek Lem/Jerusalem during the Crusader period. See some of its fate in Talk:Jerusalem during the Crusader period; people wanted it to be kept, but did't want to spend their time on it.

Please contribute to finishing the job, or I will delete it from my space. I am not even a Jew.

I hope you are aware that Jerusalem and Kingdom of Jerusalem are way not the same, even within the same time frame, so the redirect of Jerusalem during the Crusader period to Kingdom of Jerusalem is not good. Staszek Lem (talk) 22:58, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi. Firstly, you don't need to be Jewish to be a member of this WikiProject. Secondly, if you intend on removing it from your userspace, let me know beforehand so I can put it in my sandbox. I'd work on it now, but have to go and won't be back on for another day. Some other editors here should be able to help out with the article though.

Thanks! --Activism1234 23:23, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Firstly, it was a gloomy joke, out of frustration by the sizzled interest. Staszek Lem (talk) 01:40, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

..... Nu? Staszek Lem (talk) 20:58, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Request for Assessment

Please assess the article Jewish holiday for this project. Please remember this is a survey article meant to point people to more specific information. I assume this article should be rated as B-class rather than Start-class for the purpose of this project, too. Note: I am in the process of upgrading the article, holiday by holiday, but I think it already qualifies as B-class. Thanks. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:15, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

NOTE - the article should probably be renamed in the plural form, "Jewish holidays." --Activism1234 15:34, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

File:BeerTuvia35.JPG

File:BeerTuvia35.JPG is in cleanup categories for not having a source and not having an author filled in -- 76.65.128.252 (talk) 14:58, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Military images

Several Israeli military images are up for deletion at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files/2012 September 6 for having questionable licensing. -- 76.65.131.248 (talk) 01:26, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

A new source for Statistics about Israel

Hello all,

Today I've launched a website containing 25,000 data series about Israel (all taken, with permission, from Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics):

http://statil.org/

All of the images and the data series on the site are licensed under CC, so to allow them to be included in Wikipedia. I hope people in this project will be interested in including more statistical graphs about the state of Israel.

With regards, Tal Galili (talk) 17:23, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Wow! That's great. But what about some editors objecting to it, saying it's not an RS? Perhaps you should show the citation for each statistic you have, and where you got it? --Activism1234 23:21, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Amazing job. :) However, I have a question--isn't it necessary for you to adjust the population totals for non-census years? I've noticed that Israeli population data for non-census years ends up being different from the actual next census data. Anyway, other than that, very nice job. :D Futurist110 (talk) 22:34, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Esh Kodesh and Israeli Settlement

I need some help over at Esh Kodesh and Israeli Settlement. I'm discussing my addition of POV and an editor is unilaterally removing it. Z554 (talk) 00:30, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Hey, while you're reading the 1RR rule I mentioned on your talk page, you might want to read Wikipedia:Canvassing too. Just a thought.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 00:34, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

You cannot remove a POV designation while it is under discussion. Z554 (talk) 00:39, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

1996 Israeli election article

I have a question--should I try submitting this article to good article status? I improved this article by adding reactions to Netanyahu's win from prominent public figures. Thank you very much. Futurist110 (talk) 22:36, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi Futurist110,

At this point the article is unlikely to succeed, although I'm sure that there are enough materials out there, even just from media sources, to potentially make it a Good Article. There are a number of major improvements that needs to be done, among others: expanding the background section, converting some of the list style to prose, and expanding the article overall to include information about the political rivalry, the polling, etc.

It really depends on the subject of the article and availability of materials, but in general it can take weeks to months or research to write a high-quality article on Wikipedia. Good luck with the task, and let us know if we can help.

—Ynhockey ^(Talk) 13:11, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Jenin.jpg

file:Jenin.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.131.248 (talk) 03:08, 27 September 2012 (UTC)