Talk:NHL entry draft

NHL entry draft is a former featured list candidate. Please view the link under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. Once the objections have been addressed you may resubmit the article for featured list status.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
July 10, 2009	Featured list candidate	Not promoted

List of drafts

I noticed that in the list of drafts it jumps from 2006 to 2008. Is there any reason for this? Where is 2007? Masterhatch 17:02, 20 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Might just be because whenever that part was last edited, whoever did it already knew the '08 draft will be held in Ottawa. Maybe the place of the 2007 draft wasn't known. Bigdottawa 13:25, 14 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use and copyright violations

The following was just posted to Wikipedia:Copyright problems in the "Fair use claims needing a second opinion" section:

NHL Entry Draft (history · last edit) This page itself is not a problem, but all of the XXXX NHL Entry Draft pages from 1963 to present linked from this page make extensive use of team and university logos. (Didn't want to list 30+ pages here individually.) I hate to be a spoilsport and suggest the removal of someone's hard work, but this does not even come close to meeting the requirements for use of these fair use images. Use of logos, I believe, is more or less restricted to use in articles about the specific organization that owns the logo. While I see the aesthetic value of using these logos on said pages, I don't believe it's legal. Hope this is the right place to raise the question; I'll also be posting this to NHL Entry Draft to alert interested editors of the potential problem.

I'm posting this here so anyone interested has a chance to comment. ⇒ B.Rossow ^Talk|_Contr 13:10, Saturday [[April 8]] [[2006]] (UTC)

I agree. Yes aesthetically pleasing, but not appropriate with regard to fair use. They should go from those pages and be used on team articles only. Mark83 14:18, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Given no objections, I am in the process of removing the logos from said pages. If someone wants to help, that would be great as it's a somewhat tedious project. ⇒ B.Rossow ^talk_contr [[Tuesday]], [[April 25]], [[2006]] @ 14:40 (UTC)

Well hold up, because I have HUGE objections over this. Nevermind the countless hours spent on finding logos for all the drafted players, but these logos do exactly what the fair use says they can be used for: to illustrate the corporation, sports team, or organization in question. What's the problem here exactly? Now who's going to spend the countless hours re-inserting the logos? Bigdottawa 11:54, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, the proper time to object would have been three weeks ago when this was posted for discussion. Second, the use of the logos in this manner is most assuredly not fair use. It is purely aesthetic, not at all critical to identifying the team in question. The fair use notification in the copyright tag is not accurate when it suggests, at least to some, that ANY use of the logo is fair use as long as it's illustrating the subject. That's not what fair use law says (and having taught fair use in workshops for nearly a decade, I'm rather familiar with fair use doctrine). Fair use applies when the use of copyrighted material (in this case, an image) is integral to demonstrating the subject. This is not the case here; the team name alone defines the subject without ambiguity and the logo, while visually pleasing, is without question not necessary in further identifying the team. So to answer your last question, no one will be spending countless hours re-inserting the logos because doing so would be a violation of U.S. and international copyright law. Sorry. ⇒ B.Rossow ^talk_contr [[Friday]], [[April 28]], [[2006]] @ 17:56 (UTC)

If the copyright tag on this site CLEARLY states logo's can be used to illustrate the sports team, which is what the logos on the draft page or doing, then the logos on the draft pages are perfectly okay, according to the copyright tags on Wikipedia. I'm sorry if I didn't bring up my objections weeks ago, but I don't use the site every day, so I didn't catch it then. And someone should definitely re-insert the logos, because there use is in line with what the copyright tags state. Bigdottawa 14:38, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The copyright tag is not intended to be all-inclusive in its explanation. Further, the coyright tag is user-edited and does not convey official, complete Wikipedia copyright policy. You clearly do not understand fair use law and, regardless of how you interpret the [incomplete] copyright tag, the use of these logos in this manner is without question a copyright violation. Reinsertion of the logos would be a direct violation of international copyright law and could expose Wikipedia to unnecessary liability issues. You really should do some reading about fair use and not just rely on a condensed version in a copyright tag. ⇒ B.Rossow ^talk_contr [[Sunday]], [[April 30]], [[2006]] @ 15:28 (UTC)

If you're going to remove the logos from the Awards section of each season, then you should have replaced it with the team name of the player who won the award...scsgoal31 03:18, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, it's not as bad as I thought, it was only the last few seasons that logos were used...remembering what team the player was on at the time shouldn't be a major issue...I'll see what I can do about putting them in the format of the 01-02 season and prior.

Table out of date

The Player Numbers By League Summary is out of date - hasn't been updated since the 2003 draft. I've put a template up, hopefully it can be fixed. BoojiBoy 21:28, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Steals

I've changed the "draft steal" from Dominik Hasek to Dino Ciccarelli. My reasoning is that I'm not sure that Hasek can be considered a steal - he was a total shot in the dark because he was playing in Czechoslovakia at the time and was not considered likely to defect to the West. I don't think that you can say that the Blackhawks "stole" him merely because the Berlin Wall fell six years later. BoojiBoy 15:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Supplemental Drafts

I was wondering if anybody knows anything at all about the supplemental drafts. I am particularly looking for draft dates and locations, but I am under the impression that they were at the same locations. As of now I can confirm that '93 and '94 drafts were in the same location as the main draft from here, but as I said I am not sure the dates are the same but I would have to assume they are. Right now I am in the midst of doing the grunt work of just getting the information onto the supplemental draft pages and I plan to be done all the drafts within the next few days. MBob 00:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- I did the NHL Supplemental Draft article and what's contained is all I know. BoojiBoy 00:36, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Draft Lottery?

I don't know enough to do it myself, but I think the Lottery should be mentioned in this article TheHYPO 14:07, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Now added, along with the rest of the draft seeding procedure. — Lomn 18:45, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

2009 in Montreal?

Where was it officially announced that Montreal was hosting the draft in 2009? I see the link to the article on canadiens.com saying that they are BIDDING on the 2009 Draft within the 2009 NHL Entry Draft page, but I find nothing on the internet to support that they are OFFICIALLY hosting it.

busts and steals removed

Per WP:V, et al, I've removed the entire busts/steals section. Its a wholly unsourced subjective list. Should worthwhile sources emerge, I see nothing wrong in principle with the section returning, but I think it's important not to let it devolve back into another overlong list like the article is unfortunately already saddled with. For those interested in re-adding the section, here's the diff of the lists at the time of my removal. — Lomn 18:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

compensation?

does anyone know if there any financial compensation to drafted amateurs former minor league teams?

(ie: when Sidney Crosby was drafted to the NHL, did his junior team the Rimouski Océanic receive any financial return?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.156.95.254 (talk) 22:05, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Extremely late answer here, but no, I can't imagine that they would. The draft is a strictly internal NHL agreement, and the only parties bound by a draft choice are the 29 NHL franchises that didn't draft the player. As for when the player actually signs an NHL contract, that is a different matter of course. If the player is still under contract with another club, that club is in a bargaining position because it could simply refuse to release the player from the contract, and sue him for breach if he leaves the club anyway. While most clubs aren't too keen on actually prohibiting their players from taking a chance like this, they will certainly demand remuneration. There is a general contract between the NHL and the IIHF currently under renegotiation (and contention, as some European clubs feel the figures are too low), but I don't know if the Canadian leagues would be covered by that. If the player is not under contract, I don't think any such demands can be made (compare the soccer situation: Bosman ruling and Transfer (football)#FIFA's solidarity mechanism). —JAO • T • C 10:09, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I know that when a Swedish player moves to NHL, his Swedish club(s) is paid $225000 as per a signed agreement between NHL and the Swedish hockey league. In return, any player has the right to break off his contract if he gets signed to an NHL club, the club cannot refuse the transfer. I would assume there are similar agreements with many other leagues. MatsT (talk) 10:13, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reason for lottery

To most of us, it's probably kind of obvious why the lottery takes place, but it could certainly be covered in some detail. How common was it, for instance, for teams to actually be accused of throwing games for draft purposes? I vaguely recall that this might have been one of the reasons that Eric Lindros didn't want to sign with the Nordiques, but I'm certainly not sure about that... —JAO • T • C 10:09, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I can't cite any references, but I do remember actual stats from sports analysts. Teams would play second, third, and fourth lines more often in games near the end of the regular season. This was not illegal nor controllable. It however did give the less experienced players more ice time against teams that were hungry and strong trying to get higher standing for the play-offs. There may have been other ways as well. I don't have the desire to find citations, but others may wish to for the article.--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:57, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Compensatory draft selection

Resolute removed the section Compensatory draft selection here, however the section is referenced and contains useful information, so unless there is a consensus that this section does not belong in this article, I will restore it. Dolovis (talk) 01:21, 30 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You never learn to step back, read and understand, do you? The material you are complaining about is already in the article. As I explained in the edit summary, I merely removed your duplication of said content. I already merged your compensatory draft selection article, rewording as needed to fit into the article. Reso lute 02:52, 30 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It reads better as it own section. Dolovis (talk) 03:18, 30 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A single paragraph rarely makes a good section. If you can bring in other aspects of the system of compensatory picks to create a decent section out of it, by all means. Historically, for instance, teams would trade for pending UFA's they knew they couldn't sign because it would net them a pick (Theoren Fluery to the Sharks, and Curtis Joseph to the Flames, as two examples). That might give you a basis from which to find sources and build a section. Reso lute 04:06, 30 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Capitalization in headers

The "Eligible Players" section header has the first letter in each word as an upper-case letter. As far as I know, usually only names should be capitalized. Is it correct to capitalize both words? If yes, is there some policy/guideline information I'm missing? Hey Mid (contribs) 21:26, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, that is counter to the MOS. Only proper names should be capitalized. Reso lute 23:18, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Time to get rid of 'Entry'

It's no longer the Entry Draft, as there isn't the Waiver Draft to differentiate from. Can we make this page just the NHL Draft and include the history of the previous time as NHL Entry Draft? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arusnak (talk • contribs) 19:13, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Dicklyon (talk) 03:00, 22 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Trading of draft picks

The thing which I do not understand is how can teams be trading draft picks if the results (standings) of future seasons as well as the outcome of the respective lottery -- these being the two determining factors for a draft position -- are not known to them? As far as I know, teams are trading specific (eg a No 2 pick) and not just any pick in a future draft. There should be an (obvious) answer to this, it's just I haven't figured it out yet ... Thanks to anyone who is helping me out on this! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.33.91.2 (talk) 13:12, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Team A own a pick in a certain round. So they trade say their 1st round pick 2016. They trade it. Now team B owns that pick (and their own) in the first round. Where the obtained pick will occur will depend on how team A finishes and lottery results. I guess it is sort of like a futures market. Dbrodbeck (talk) 13:42, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly. It is something of a gamble on the part of the team acquiring the pick. They will know what round the pick they acquire will be in, but not the specific place until the season ends. Some trades are designed to account for this. The Jay Bouwmeester trade to St. Louis, for example, included a 2013 first round pick going to Calgary. However, as a condition of that deal, if the Blues missed the playoffs (thus drafting between 1-14, depending on the lottery result), they would have instead given Calgary their 2014 first round pick, plus an extra fourth rounder. Reso lute 13:48, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for making this clear to me (and so swiftly). In central European leagues, we do not have such a sophisticated system -- or any draft system for that matter -- so it's nice to receive tutorials from people who know. Patrick H. (Austria)... and by the way, Resolute: It seems that you have taken one of the pictures in the article on Alex Plante (in a Calgary Hitmen uniform) who now happens to play for my local team: Dornbirn Bulldogs. It's a small world after all! Patrick H.

French Translation of "Entry Draft"

It is unnecessary to include a French translation of "Entry Draft" at the start of the English article. It adds nothing to the content of the article and its inclusion is arbitrary. There is no reason to select French as the one foreign language that gets its own translation. There is already a French version of the article, which, by the way, does not currently have a translation of the article's topic into English - and so it should not. The insistence of editors to include a French translation in what is an English language encyclopedia article seems to me the politically motivated actions of language activists. 2001:569:79A0:6300:B87F:EBC0:491B:FFFA (talk) 23:47, 23 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

For any admins looking into this issue, this editor started a conversation on this subject over here and did not receive consensus for their proposed changes. Since the conversation activity died down this editor has continued with their edit war while using different IP addresses. Deadman137 (talk) 01:07, 6 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above is misleading. If it was anyone, it was the user above engaging in an "edit war". There was talk posted here justifying the change to which person above did not respond; he would just unilaterally alter without justification. I had not seen any of the related discussion on the other page. And I have no control of my IP address, which must be dymanic, I guess. This is much to the chagrin of Deadman137, who obviously has his own agenda, which he intends to pursue - unfortunately to the detriment to this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:79A0:6300:6D13:EB4D:7FF2:20FE (talk) 08:29, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Get off your soapbox, you're just upset that you're not going to get your way. If there was any policy or good reason to make the changes that you proposed they would have been made and accepted as the consensus of the community. You lost this one, move on. Deadman137 (talk) 02:36, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Amateur"

Stating that the teams draft "amateur players", when in fact they draft both amateur and professional players, is plainly inaccurate. It's like saying that the NHL teams are based in the U.S. because most NHL teams are. The sentence "teams take turns selecting amateur players from junior, collegiate, or European leagues" is particularly misleading since amateur players are virtually never drafted from European leagues that are not junior.BlueSwede92 (talk) 14:21, 6 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (February 2018)

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Player and team names

Why is it that we dont include letter like Ä, Ö, Å, Ø, ẞ, Š in the player and team names in the articles about the drafts? --Cheers! Kilaseell - Message me! - 17:51, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Because this is a non-bio NHL article & we don't use diacritics in such articles. They are used in (for example) IIHF articles. GoodDay (talk) 19:19, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Eligible players section way out of date

The text does not match what the cited NHL's Hockey Operations Guidelines say. I would update it myself but translating the NHL's wording into plain English is probably better left for someone more practiced in hockey talk.

Currently it says:

All players who will be 18 years old on or before September 15 and not older than 19 years old before December 31 of the draft year are eligible for selection for that year's NHL Entry Draft. In addition, non-North American players over the age of 20 are eligible.

Whereas the NHL says:

Entry Draft Eligibility
All players age 19 or older [(i) any player who will be age 18 on or before September 15 in the year in which such Entry Draft is held, or (ii) reaches his 19th birthday between September 16 and December 31, both dates included, next following Entry Draft, can attain eligibility by delivering to the League a written notice (Opt in Form) prior to the later of May 1, or seven days following the date such player finishes competing on his team in the year in which such draft is to be held.] are eligible for claim in the Entry Draft, except:
(i) A Player on the Reserve List of a Club, other than as a try-out;
(ii) A player who has been claimed in two prior Entry Drafts;
(iii) A player who previously played in the League and became a free agent pursuant to the Collective Bargaining Agreement;
(iv) A plyer age 21 or older who had played hockey for at least one season in North America when he was age 18, 19 or 20

And yes, the NHL managed to misspell "player" in exception (iv). - Wikkiwonkk (talk) 19:38, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Current lottery odds

There are two lotteries held, but the table is a little wrong here. It was explained in the lottery video that if a team that doesn't have a chance to 1st overall pick wins the first lottery, Ducks will keep the 1st overall pick regardless of the result of the second draw and the first lottery winner has its draft position locked.

Therefore, if Senators had won the first lottery, they would have moved to 2nd with Ducks keeping 1st. Then the second lottery winner would have got 3rd pick. I think the table on the 2023 NHL Entry Draft is therefore correct. 2001:14BA:5045:2C00:7C05:AEC0:B17:995D (talk) 07:30, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Potential page moves

FWIW a recently closed RFC, may effect 'this' page & related pages. GoodDay (talk) 15:57, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(copied from my other comment for visibility) As the RfC closer, I can confirm that the close applies only to pages related to the NFL draft and has no impact on other leagues or sports. There was some discussion of them at the RfC, but was unrelated to the RfC question or the consensus reached. Anyone trying to use it to bypass discussion on other articles is not interpreting the close correctly. The Wordsmith^{Talk to me} 17:17, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 14 April 2024

The request to rename this article to NHL entry draft has been carried out.

If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.

– As with other sports drafts, these are not proper names. They are not consistently capitalized in sources. Per MOS:CAPS and WP:NCCAPS, we should use lowercase entry draft and amateur draft. Dicklyon (talk) 00:28, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some data – In book n-gram stats, upper and lower case are very mixed, nothing close to "consistently capitalized", which is the criterion in MOS:CAPS, nor "always occur capitalized, even mid-sentence", the criterion in WP:NCCAPS. Dicklyon (talk) 00:32, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note – I've also proposed downcasing "Hockey" in "Djurgårdens IF Hockey players"; we could alternatively just omit that word. The article Djurgårdens IF Hockey might also do with a name change, as the article doesn't mention that among the various names. Dicklyon (talk) 01:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Djurgårdens IF is an athletic club with teams in many different sports so some type of differentiation is necessary. As far as the capitalization of that article I could care less. Deadman137 (talk) 02:11, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the article title about players drafted in the NHL entry draft, is that enough, implying hockey? Or you'd prefer to keep hockey in that title? Dicklyon (talk) 03:19, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe Djurgårdens IF Hockey is the name of their league. Djurgårdens IF is the branding of several sports in Sweden, but "Hockey" precedes all of their team names too. So, it could be a trademark. However, omitting it might be a better solution.

I'm not opposed to lowercased draft. Entry draft is very unique and I don't see it too often outside of NHL.com. Conyo14 (talk) 07:12, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To explain the Djurgårdens IF situation. Imagine if the Miami Dolphins bought the other major professional teams in their metropolitan area and renamed all of them the Miami Dolphins. You would then wind up with Miami Dolphins football, Miami Dolphins hockey, Miami Dolphins baseball etc. that's what the Djurgårdens IF situation is. Whether football, hockey and baseball would be capitalized or not in that situation, I don't care.

Dicklyon: The title of these articles are not trademarked so I really don't care what the outcome of this review is. The only thing that I would ask for is, if the result is to move the articles could you at least wait and do them in the morning after this closes so that our watchlists are not overloaded while we're covering games in the coming days? Deadman137 (talk) 23:14, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh that's interesting. Then I will support lowercase hockey, the others I will also support lowercase entry/amateur draft per the result completed in the NFL draft debacle. Conyo14 (talk) 23:37, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Some relevant guidelines are MOS:CAPS:
Wikipedia relies on sources to determine what is conventionally capitalized; only words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources are capitalized in Wikipedia.
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (capitalization):
Outside Wikipedia, and within certain specific fields (such as medicine), the usage of all-capital terms may be a proper way to feature new or important items. However these cases are typically examples of buzzwords, which by capitalization are (improperly) given special emphasis.
—Bagumba (talk) 08:36, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, lower-case all. These are not "consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of reliable sources". Capitalization varies widely by publication and even by writers within publications. [1][2] When it occurs, it is most often a) in headlines/headings/captions/etc. written in title case; b) in sites and other materials that are published by NHL, an NHL team, a fan club of an NHL team, ticket sellers, cities promoting events, and other non-independent sources; c) or by amateur "journalists" at unreliable sites we would not cites as sources (and which typically have a lot of other style faults in their writing; i.e., they are not evidentiary of how to write English properly). As in all these others sports over-capitalization cases we've looked at over the last several months, the capitalization is serving nothing but a marketing/promotional purpose, and no case can be made that these terms "are" proper names, because lower-case usage across a large number of independent source materials immediately ddisproves that these things are given capitalization treatment as proper names in English by parties who are not trying to promote them with marketing stylization. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 00:05, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per the extensive research above as well as my and others' comments at the NFL draft discussions regarding the MOSCAPS prohibition of non-independent sources from counting toward title capitalization consensus. JoelleJay (talk) 01:53, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as per MOS:CAPS and WP:NCCAPS. Unnecessary capitalization is an epidemic on sports articles. Flibirigit (talk) 11:15, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment List of NHL Entry Draft broadcasters has been placed at WP:AFD. Conyo14 (talk) 20:41, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]