User talk:Andrej Shadura

Welcome to the Commons, Andrej Shadura!

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Image:Map of New York Highlighting New York City.png

Калі ласка, дадавайце выявы ў катэгорыі/старонкі, дзе іх могуць знайсьці іншыя (напрыклад, Category:Maps of New York City).

Тэг {{PD-self}} можна выкарыстоўваць толькі для ўласных файлаў (я ўжо выправіў).

EugeneZelenko 14:38, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Справа ў тым, што я "скапіяваў" гэты файл з ангельскамоўнае Вікіпэдыі, разам з ліцэнзіяй (выкарыстоўваў спэцыяльную утыліту), таму так і атрымалася. Зараз буду больш уважлівым. -- Bełamp 21:06, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Image:ETHOberon.png

На мой погляд, лепей за ўсё загрузіць гэтую выяву ў беларускую Вікіпэдыю як ахоўваемую аўтарскімі правамі. Здымкі экрана дазваляюцца ў Commons толькі з вольнага праграмнага забесьпячэньня (Commons:Licensing#Screenshots). Да таго ж гэта лягатып, на выкарыстаньне якога могуць быць дадатковыя абмежаваньні. --EugeneZelenko 15:03, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

łacinka

There was a long discussion on this matter in en-wiki but in the end the reasons for use of translit over lacinka are overpowering, this does not mean you HAVE to use translit in commons, but why not use NSR, the official romanisation of Belarusian, which is accurate and correct, but if you like, simpler than lacinka. However lacinka's flaws are great. Here is reasoning by a professional linguist Yury Tarasievich on en:WP:CYR:

Transliteration should be used because the state-sponsored system is 1) non-mandatory outside of Belarus 2) non-recommended by UN 3) impossible to use with strictly English alphabet 4) redundant, as the "one-to-one transliteration" is already handled by ISO 9 since 1968, and English transcription is handled by BGN/PCGN since 1979.

The "Lacinka" is: 1) quasi-orthographical, not transliterating, system 2) never codified properly (ref. to Tarashkyevich's 5th edition) 3) breaking Belarusian language traditions (chiefly with rules on "L" and "Ł", which, thankfully, the "state supported system" dares not do) 4) used by virtually nobody 5) redundant even for Polish WP, as there are already codified Polish rules of the rendering of the Belarusian names (ref. to the archive of the discussion).

That's why Belarusian names in English WP should be rendered in BGN/PCGN.

Sums it up, same logic here, we already have cyrillic Belarusian for Belarusians and translit for English people...no need for anyother --Kuban kazak 15:44, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Some words more:

1. Yury is not a professional linguist
2. Łacinka is codified properly, and it does handle one-to-one transliteration
3. Łacinka does not break any language traditions, and, btw, "state supported system" also uses almost the same L/Ł rule (but it is reversed: Ĺ/L)
4. Łacinka has a huge community of users
5. As in Polish Wikipedia, Łacinka is often used to transliterate Belarusian names
6. BGN/PCGN is absolutely inaccurate when is applied to Belarusian words, NSR is more accurate, but is still inadequate in some situations. Łacinka, being an orthography system, fully (and correctly!) supports any Belarusian words.

And the last: the transliteration provided is not correct. You can check Першамайская and Аўтазаводзкая (written with dz!).

1. Yury, whether he is or not, certainly knows a lot about Belarusian, and is able to back up his claims with refrences and examples, which not everybody can.
2. Wrong, Lacinka has many different versions, some of which are used some are not

All those differences are in past, and now we have a stable version of Łacinka.

1. It does, because the system is not in official use anywhere outside Belarus, and a minority inside Belarus. No Belarusian atlas, or guide is going to give Lacinka in romanisation, particulary in English language.
2. Support this and how large is large? It has to be significant to be noticible, which is why neither Britannica nor Encarta nor any other encyclopedia use it...
3. But not in titles...
4. That is a matter of opinion, BGN/PCGN is correct because it is an ENGLISH invention, and as Lacinka has no official status in Belarus or elsewhere it is the English version that should be used in priority over local text, the exception is that either the text's latin script is widespread (and enough to attract attention of Britannica, Columbia, Encarta etc.).

How BGN/PCGN could ever be correct if it cannot translate all possible Belarusian sound combinations? Moreover, it transliterates, does letter-by-letter translation, ня ўлічваючы асаблівасьцяў беларускай мовы (excuse me, it's too late, and I could not write this in English right now :)

1. Accoriding to be:Выява:2003-3.jpg it is Аўтазаводcкая. Or is this the issue with the grammar versions? --Kuban kazak 19:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Almost. Not grammar but orthography. Look at be:Менскі мэтрапалітэн. I think, we should use the names mentioned in article (and it is Аўтазаводзкая according to this article). Moreover, that picture has many mistakes/misprints (i.e. Пралятарская instead of Пралетарская, Kastrichnic'kaya instead of Kastryčnickaja (Łacinka) or Kastrychnitskaya (translit), Kuntsaushina, Institut Kulturi and so on. Be careful when using names from there, ask someone from be.wikipedia if not sure. --Bełamp 00:49, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Be wiki has one major problem and that is its usage of grammar is not the standard version that is used by the state Belarusian print, as a result there are huge ammount of anti-parallels. Here are pictures of the titles [[1],[2] and see for yourself no з in Аўтазаводская or э in Фрунзенская. Even the title of their city is wrong, its МIНСК not Менск, and you trust that article...

No, you are wrong. We must transliterate the names used in article. And about title of my city – it's called Менск, but not Мінск anyway. These differences are not mistakes/misprints/etc., these are only different variants of writing single Belarusian language. So, we can and should trust that article. --Bełamp 23:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

That is just ridiculous. Who are we designing this gallery for? For the personal satisfaction of you just because you are the only one who wants to use a different system, or for the thousands of people who have no clue about this, but would very much be curious on why are the names written on signs in the images are not the same as those that are written in the headings... Извини за выражения... но это полный бред! As for be-wiki, on meta, there have been more than one complaint about the use of an unofficial archaic grammar set (and ruthlessly enforcing it, out of some childish political ideals) --Kuban kazak 01:15, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Now back to BGN/PCGN, its advantage is that it does exactly account for all combinations because it uses no more letters than there are in the english alphabet, which is essential when we remember for whom is this written, its not written. I mean I can add Russian with Yats and hard signs everywhere (pre-1918 grammar), but what use will that have? --Kuban kazak 18:51, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

"it uses no more letters than there are in the english alphabet" – it's not an advantage. You cannot translate all possible combinations using only letters of English alphabet. Łacinka can. Dixi. --Bełamp 23:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Well give me an example of where you cannot do that? Because so far I am yet to hear a serious argument for lacinka, and if you want to hear arguments against, then just read the talk page (half way down) of en:WP:CYR. I btw was an initiator that removed it from all article titles in en-wiki. --Kuban kazak 01:15, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

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