Talk:Tina Turner

Media-reporting error

Most media reports have described the Villa Algonquin in Küsnacht as a property with ten buildings and ponds. But this description is of Tina Turner's large estate in Stäfa, at the village's extreme Eastern tip, as shown in satellite images. At the villa Turner was a tenant from 1998 onwards, remaining so through a change in ownership in 2020 until her death. The estate she bought in September 2021 but did not move to. Both are directly on Lake Zürich. Küsnacht is 8 km from Zürich. Stäfa is 25 km away from the city.

RfC: Restore nationality

Do you think her nationality and citizenship in the lead should be restored? Maybe the first sentence of the lead can describe Turner as "an American and Swiss singer."

How do you think? RMXY (talk) 08:42, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

I think it's excellent the way it is. Qflib, aka KeeYou Flib (talk) 16:03, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Also, an RfC on this topic was already carried out and closed last June (see above). We should stay with consensus decision-making - this is the Wikipedia way, anyway. Qflib, aka KeeYou Flib (talk) 16:05, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

I know I've had several replies to this, but I just realized this was asked again by the same user a month after their last consensus they started was closed on 19 June 2023 to remove nationality. The recent consensus removes the constant debate of whether she should be just "American" or "American-born Swiss", etc and IDK what's wrong with it. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 05:57, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Please vote below this line

Comment - Normal format used regularly would be American-Swiss. The opposition to such a normal term flabbergasts me. Do some Americans think there are no black people in Switzerland; that a great American star like Turnar can't possibly have been an American-Swiss singer? Why in this particular case does it rub some people the wrong way to use what's normal? Gives me a very uneasy felling, to put it mildly. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 18:49, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

American-born Swiss singer is the best option for me. She was not American at the time of her death. _-_Alsor (talk) 10:39, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

I have restored "American-born Swiss." That was the format for years (same one as "American-born Greek" for Maria Callas). Removing any reference whatsoever to Turner's nationality -- as if she were stateless -- contravenes Wikipedia usage; the nationality is always mentioned, and in the very first sentence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.255.77.207 (talk) 19:36, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

the nationality is always mentioned - This is not true at all. Per WP:ETHNICITY, nationality can be omitted if it is disputed or agreed to be omitted. Elon Musk is a notable example.

Anyways, this has been a tedious back and fourth for years. The problem is, many people feel that she is notable for being an American, not Swiss. Describing her as "Swiss" would not be accurate to her life/birth/identity/etc. While others argue that because she obtained Swiss citizenship, and died there, she has every right to be called "Swiss". In the end, this has been going on for years and I think omitting it removes much of the headache it has brought over the years. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 01:55, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

What is really happening is that American editors are offended that Tina Turner was no longer American. Ridiculous patriotic issue. Tina Turner, for legal purposes, ceased to be an American to acquire Swiss nationality. And so it must be said: American-botn Swiss singer, as a matter of common sense. We can't make anything up on Wikipedia. _-_Alsor (talk) 01:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Do some Americans think there are no black people in Switzerland - No one's denying that people of African descent live in Switzerland, the same way Europeans can be Japanese citizens or be from India. But her career and her all but 10 years of her life have been as an American, and this is where many of the discussions have disagreed on calling her "Swiss".

In the end, various users agreed that we should omit her nationality; especially since this debate has been going on for years and is now being brought up again. As to answer this once again brought back RfC, I agree to keep it as it is, and to stay with the last consensus which wasn't even made a full year ago. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 01:59, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Keep as is as per Clear Looking Glass. See WP:Consensus. I wish people would take the time to read the discussion history on this issue, although I admit it's now in the archive (see the “Lead Section” part of [[1]]) in which numerous editors participated). Let's leave this for now and move on to improving the page. Qflib (talk) 13:12, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

See WP:CCC. _-_Alsor (talk) 01:40, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Tennessee comment The second paragraph in the lead begins: Born in Tennessee... The state is not linked, but most people outside of America (at best, possibly North America) are likely not familiar with it, so United States should be mentioned (MOS:NOFORCELINK) or even used in place of Tennessee. I understand that the consensus was not to mention nationality in the lead sentence, but that doesn't preclude providing some context of her locale somewhere else in the lead, which is currently missing for anyone not already familiar with her.—Bagumba (talk) 01:29, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Short description

Why is the short description changing back and forth? The short description first says as "American-born Swiss singer" even if the nationality in the lead is omitted last June by community consensus. I changed it to "American and Swiss singer" then it got reverted back to "American-born Swiss". I changed it again to "American and Swiss", but it was reverted back. Because of all this edit war in the short description, can the nationality in the short description be removed too, or should it be kept? RMXY (talk • contribs) 05:50, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm all for removing nationality from the short description to stay consistent with the consensus last year which agreed to remove nationality from lede. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 02:02, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Hmmm. I don't recall that consensus (which is not to say it did not happen!). I think MOS:NATIONALITY tells us it probably belongs in the lead, as it is not actually 'controversial,' but I am happy to go wherever consensus leads. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 02:48, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

@Dumuzid - The last consensus ended in June 2023:

Consensus is that nationality should not be mentioned in the first sentence.

I find it odd though, since a mere month after the user who started the May 2023 RfC closed it, they opened a new one in July 2023 asking if we should restore it. Even before Turner died, her talk page was long filled with discussions about her nationality (I'll admit I started one or two years ago), but I thought removing the nationality would end this debate for now. EDIT: Also, per WP:ETHNICITY, nationality can be omitted in some cases. Like Elon Musk for example. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 05:52, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Again, happy to go with consensus here, and not intending to be argumentative. I may well be in the minority (and so far seem to be!). I am not familiar with the granular details of Mr. Musk's life, but I suspect I would argue for inclusion there too. I guess what sticks in my craw just a little bit here is that the facts are in no way in dispute, and the issue was obviously of some importance to the article subject herself. I don't really understand the controversy--although I *do* understand trying to do away with it by removing nationality from the lead, even if it would not be my chosen course of action. Oh well, with apologies to Wallace S. Sayre, Wikipedia disputes are so vicious because the stakes are so low. Cheers! Dumuzid (talk) 14:33, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

I also agree with removing nationality from the short description, consistent with the decision taken on the lead following the 2023 RfC. Qflib (talk) 13:14, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Birthplace

Currently, the article says Turner was born in Brownsville, Tennessee. There are three sources listed for this statement. One of those three sources says she was born in Brownsville, another says she was born in Nutbush, and the third is a book that I don't have access to. To make matters more challenging, footnote #16, which is nearby, cites 1940 census data, but both the original link to that source and the archived link are dead.

I ran a couple of Google searches and found that some say Tina was born in Brownsville, while others say that she was born in Nutbush.

Does anybody have any information as to which birthplace is correct? MonMothma (talk) 00:56, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Tina said that she was born near/or in Nutbush in the song Nutbush City Limits, so idk. TheGreatestLuvofAll ( chat with me ) 02:17, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

It was a performance on (soul train i think) [2] TheGreatestLuvofAll ( chat with me ) 21:19, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Did Ikette Ann Thomas affect their marriage?

Basically if Ike had a daughter, Mia (real name Cicily) outside of Ike and Tina's marriage did any of that affect their marriage? Yes or no? Basically Ann lived in/or near their home in California and was possibly connected to the couple, by the time Mia was born. I do not know how Ike would sleep with Ann in their marriage but is this mentioned in the article about Ann or Mia? TheGreatestLuvofAll ( chat with me ) 01:06, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Well if it is that, but how can she affect their marriage because that Tina had fought her in a altercation smth like that, but how can we match the chemistry of their relationship while Ike was still married to Tina and Ann was living with them because they were sister wives. TheGreatestLuvofAll ( chat with me ) 17:12, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Black heritage

Can someone explain to me why Tina Turner's black heritage as an ethnicity is not mentioned in the titular paragraph shiznaw (talk) 21:35, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

According to MOS:ETHNICITY, ethnicity, religion or sexual orientation should not be emphasised in the lead section of a biography unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Tina Turner's notability primarily stems from her accomplishments in the music industry rather than her ethnicity. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 18:14, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Tina’s Page Needs to be Locked

If you ask me, I think Tina’s page needs to be locked just like everyone else’s. There’s no special treatment. 2601:346:4300:55B0:5964:3171:3440:748D (talk) 01:45, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree. 2601:346:4300:55B0:7188:34B4:F4A3:B37F (talk) 22:44, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Unless there is some vandalisim or sockpuppetry going on, pages are not locked. If you think you have a good reason, you may request protection at WP:RFPP. NW1223<Howl at me•My hunts> 00:05, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Mother

I read a source that says that she did not attend her mother’s funeral because Ike was there, however her mother was cremated, and her ashes were scattered at sea, however find a grave is not reliable although it says she was buried. Source here: Zelma’s biography on Family Search also mentioned her being buried. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheGreatestLuvofAll (talk • contribs) 22:41, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

References

Sister and cousins killed

Her older half sister’s name may be Evelyn Juanita Lovelace, not Currie. Her father’s name is Percy Lovelace and according to her death certificate her real name is Lovelace. Turner's sister and cousins were killed in 1954. TheGreatestLuvofAll (talk) 21:16, 26 March 2024 (UTC)