Talk:Northern Cyprus

Speculative press reports

@GGT: could you explain what you mean with 'despite ...'? 'Such reports have never been scientifically or statistically scrutinized, despite opportunities of opposition parties, which has resulted in a "war of numbers".' Alakzi (talk) 19:37, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

I have attempted to do so, how is it now? --GGT (talk) 19:54, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Makes sense now, thanks. Will you also edit the next paragraph, where it's claimed that Turkish settlers outnumber Turkish Cypriots? Alakzi (talk) 20:14, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

The North is a country

Alakzi said: "Upon further inspection, disputed territories do not use any of the country categories, so I'm removing all of them" and requested us discussing here. Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Countries_in_Europe (Kosovo is listed here). It seems that either Kosovo is not disputed acc. to Alakzi or he missed Kosovo during his inspection. Also, I remember someone mentioned on this issue in the Talk page very recently.Ayka3b (talk) 19:54, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

De facto handling of Northern Cyprus as a separate country

"While unrecognized internationally except by Turkey, the international community has taken a pragmatic approach administratively to the division of the island" can be loaded to the introductory part.
Reference:
Andrew Grossman, 2015, Global Law for Justice, New York University, "Finding the Law - the Micro-States and Small Jurisdictions of Europe: Andorra, Cyprus, Northern Cyprus, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Montenegro, San Marino, Vatican State; UK European dependencies: Channel Islands, Gibraltar, Isle of Man; Faroe Islands and Greenland"
http://www.nyulawglobal.org/globalex/Microstates.htm Ayka3b (talk) 21:09, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

What does that mean, "pragmatic"? As far as I can tell, nothing. Unrecognized means unrecognized. A puppet state is a puppet state. Athenean (talk) 21:22, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Parliamentary Assembly of European Council (PACE) elects Greek Cypriot members of PACE from the Assembly of Rep. of Cyprus whereas it elects Turkish Cypriot members of PACE from the Assembly of Northern Cyprus (though PACE does not recognize NC). This is only one example of what "pragmatic" means. Also, there are countless international organizations to which Northern Cyprus is a member. Hence, the introductory part should be changed by taking into account this reality. The suggestions can be:

Northern Cyprus is de jure considered by the international community to be part of the Republic of Cyprus.

Northern Cyprus is considered by the international community to be part of the Republic of Cyprus while pragmatically there are varying handlings

etc.

Anyway, a native speaker can better design the introductory part. I revealed only the deficiency in the introductory. It is up to linguistic experts to codify the introductory: I am no such.Ayka3b (talk) 21:46, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

None of those international organizations are of any significance. Northern Cyprus is barred from all significant international organizations. Your desired additions are WP:UNDUE and WP:POV and won't be added to the lead or anywhere. Athenean (talk) 23:33, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

I visited Northern Cyprus several times in the last years. 99% of the cases, near the flag of Northern Cyprus is waving the Flag of Turkey. I think that this explains all. Alex2006 (talk) 09:08, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

International Olympics Committee (IOC) requires "International Recognition" as a prerequisite to be a member. Kosovo is not a member of United Nations (UN). But, Kosovo became a member of IOC. In this context, regarding an international organization as significant may change from person to person. UN may definitely be regarded as significant for many, but, it is not significant according to IOC, hence, the above case. Also, there are many international organizations that many qualify as significant. Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC) is one such. NC is a member of OIC. The ministers of OIC member countries came to OIC meetings held in NC. Becoming an observer member or full member does not change the reality. If a country is considered as bad, it cannot even be an observer member. Also, European Court of Human Rights is the most significant legal organization in Europe, and ECtHR accepts the laws of Northern Cyprus just as USA's Federal Court qualifies NC as democratic country.

2. All the laws of Northern Cyprus are accepted in Europe (i.e., European Court of Human Rights): ECtHR (2010): "Notwithstanding the lack of international recognition of the regime in the northern area, a de facto recognition of its acts may be rendered necessary for practical purposes. Thus, the adoption by the authorities of the 'TRNC' of civil, administrative or criminal law measures, and their application or enforcement within that territory, may be regarded as having a legal basis in domestic law for the purposes of the Convention". Source: http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/Pages/search.aspx#{"fulltext":["Pavlides"],"documentcollectionid2":["CASELAW"],"itemid":["001-122907"]}

3. United States of America's (USA) Federal Court (13.10.2014): "Although the United States does not recognize it as a state, the TRNC purportedly operates as a democratic republic with a president, prime minister, legislature and judiciary... TRNC is not vulnerable to a lawsuit in Washington". Source: http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/10/13/72392.htm

Greek Cypriots lost all of the cases that they filed against Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus without any exception:

Greek Cypriot Toumazou lost against defendant Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (13.10.2014): 1, 2 3

Latchford lost against defendant Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (31.10.2014): 1 2

Greek Cypriot Fiouris and the other 96 Greek Cypriots lost against defendant Turkish Cypriot Community (31.10.2014): 1 2

Greek Cypriot Toumazou lost against defendant Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus in USA's Court of Appeals (2014): (in page 10) (in page 17)

4. Rep. of Cyprus and Northern Cyprus started to face each other in international matches: In 2010 European Championship, C and NC matched and played with each other as totally two different countries. Since Kosovo became a member of IOC, the 85 countries that do not recognize it has no chance of not playing with Kosovo in 2016 Rio Olypiads. Since Kosovo is a member of FIBA (International Basketball Association), the ones (Spain, Greece, Russia, etc.) has no chance of not playing with Kosovo in European/World Championships. If they do not match with Kosovo, they are punished by being forced to money to the organizations. "The thing that punishes those when do not match and play" is International Community. "The thing that punishes Turkey when do not match and play with Cyprus" is International Community. "The thing that punishes Cyprus when do not match and play with Northern Cyprus" is International Community in the case of international organizations to which NC is a member.

I gave extra examples for the "pragmatic" approach above. The introductory part of NC article, though, may be regarded as true to some extent, it is false to regard it as absolute true. That is to say, it reflected and qualified the situation better for last century, but in the last decade, it is turning to be more and more obsolete, and does not reflect the real situation thoroughly and without any deficiency. See the above examples: PACE (since 2004), ECtHR (since 2010), USA's Federal Court (since 2014), Northern Cyprus-Cyprus international matches (since 2010), etc. etc. All in all, "Northern Cyprus is considered by the international community to be part of the Republic of Cyprus" became far from reflecting the true picture enough for the last decade.Ayka3b (talk) 09:14, 31 May 2015 (UTC)