Talk:Social Security System (Philippines)

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Requested move 10 July 2020

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus as to the move proposed; however, there is consensus to retarget the redirect, Social Security System, to the disambiguation page, Social Security. BD2412 T 02:47, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Social Security System (Philippines) → Social Security System – Per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (capitalization) § Page names that differ only by capitalization, and in keeping with other articles like Court of Tax Appeals, if only one proper named title applies to a specific country, it's okay for the article to not be disambiguated, but instead have hatnotes added. Once moved, I will add to the top of Social Security System, "Social Security System" redirects here. For the concept itself, see social security. via {{Redirect}}. Note: Please do not move social security system, only Social Security System. Thanks! Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 22:08, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

~~Social Security → Social Security System (disambiguation)~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 36.77.93.247 (talk • contribs) 02:47, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Steel1943 (talk) 23:30, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Psiĥedelisto: Moving this to full discussion since WP:DIFFCAPS claims aren't inherently uncontroversial, and since Social Security System is currently a redirect that points to a target different than the page proposed to be moved. (Social Security System, as well as Social Security System, currently target Social security.) Steel1943 (talk) 23:30, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Steel1943: Thank you. I don't think I ever tried to make a technical move request before. I thought I understood the rules, and what would or wouldn't be controversial...apparently not! Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 06:32, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose searching "Social Security System" returns more results for US Social Security than the Philippines version. I don't support Diffcaps in this instance because readers may not be careful about typing the correct case. (t · c) buidhe 00:47, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Buidhe: I'm not sure that this is the best argument. Perhaps in previous years, but now Google and others keep detailed histories tied to all sorts of fingerprints—logging out isn't enough, due to browser fingerprinting, and the fact that they saw your IP before you logged off, and can guess by search terms, browser extensions, installed fonts, OS, time between requests, how likely you are to still be them. What I'm trying to say is, even though I'm in the US right now, I'm so often doing Philippines research for Wikipedia and other reasons that for me ssa.gov.ph is right at the top, and then some more Filipino results. Apparently they're finally stopping the issuance of paper checks, I feel like the Americans did that ten years ago.

Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 06:46, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose While I understand the nom's logic here, the Philippines' system isn't the primary topic (I don't think there is any primary topic). It's also worth noting though that Social security is currently up for merging into Welfare. ItsPugle (talk) 03:44, 11 July 2020 (UTC) - Withdrawn No particular stance for or against. ItsPugle (talk) 06:49, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@ItsPugle: I just want to be sure this opposition isn't based on User:36.77.93.247 inappropriately adding their own idea unattributed to this RM (I think they're just confused about how this works), so it looked like that was part of the discussion. This is a request for one move only. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 06:32, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Partially. I still don't think that Social Security System (Philippines) is the primary topic, but the policy does allow differentiation based on capitalisation, so I withdraw my opposition. ItsPugle (talk) 06:49, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguate as a compromise. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:45, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Disambiguate. Although the Philippine system is the only one officially called "Social Security System", it can definitely refer to the U.S. system as well, and WP:DIFFCAPS are not enough in this scenario IMO. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 19:59, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I still prefer the redirect, but can accept disambiguation if the community doesn't like it and thinks I'm stretching WP:DIFFCAPS too much. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 21:38, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Though I am a Filipino, I thought the American context is the primary topic. When I searched for "social security system" in DuckDuckGo, there's clearly no primary topic to be seen (both the American and Philippine contexts have a significant portion of the search results). So I agree that disambiguation is the way to go. ~~However, I prefer if Social security (disambiguation) is created,~~ redirect Social Security System to the dab, and add a hatnote at social security linking to the dab page. --pandakekok9 (talk) Junk the Philippine anti-terror law! 11:49, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Nevermind, the dab already exists. In that case, I oppose any move/rename here, and propose retargeting Social Security System to Social Security instead (which I will do in a RfD). --pandakekok9 (talk) Junk the Philippine anti-terror law! 11:54, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Pandakekok9: I have procedurally closed the respective RFD discussion. Please see my closing comment for further information. Steel1943 (talk) 17:29, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Pandakekok9: So, to clarify, your !vote is to disambiguate, right? I'm not sure why you wrote "oppose" but then said you want to disambiguate, when everyone else who wanted to disambiguate bolded disambiguate. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 07:15, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There is an active merge discussion at Talk:Welfare#Merge with Social security that may impact article names related to this one. Thryduulf (talk) 18:40, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose things that rely on DIFFCAPS small distinctions in general, but especially this one. Dicklyon (talk) 01:31, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Dicklyon: What do you think about disambiguation? Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 01:57, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Can you clarify for me what the disambiguation proposal is exactly? Dicklyon (talk) 02:36, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Dicklyon: Sure. Social Security System → Social Security (disambiguation). Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 02:52, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, you mean retarget the redirect, not move it. Yes, agree. Dicklyon (talk) 03:06, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.