Talk:Tourism in Wales

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Tourist desitinations: Gower is in Swansea

Gower should not be discussed separately from Swansea in the list of "several cities and towns that are popular with tourists and visitors". It is not a separate city or town; while it has a definite geographical identity it is part of the current City and County of Swansea and was formerly part of the previous District and City of Swansea. It is also promoted to tourists alongside the city of Swansea and the wide Swansea Bay area.[1]Pondle (talk) 01:00, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Being promoted along with Swansea shouldn't make a difference. If you go to Gower, it is not described an area of Swansea. Yes it's in the administrative county but people go to the Gower without going to Swansea as well. It's like promoting the Vale of Glamorgan in the Cardiff section. Welshleprechaun (talk) 01:07, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you go to Gower, you're essentially visiting a part of Swansea - the Cardiff/Vale of Glam example is inapppropriate. Tourist visits to Gower are promoted by Swansea Council and marketed alongside the attractions of the city. Gower and the city of Swansea form part of a single local economy. If you're making a list of "cities and towns that are popular with tourists and visitors" then you include Gower with Swansea because Gower is not a separate town or city, but a rural area adjacent to (and administratively part) of the former city.Pondle (talk) 01:18, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're missing the point here. Tourism to the Gower is promoted by Swansea Council because it is in the administrative county. We're talking about Swansea the city not the county. You can't say the Gower is in Swansea the city. It even says, Swansea is the second largest city, therefore you're implying the Gower is a part of Swansea the city. The Gower isn't a town or city, it's an area, and a seperate area to Swansea. Can you provide an appropriate reference stating that the Gower is in Swanse the city? Welshleprechaun (talk) 01:22, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Surely if "Tourist visits to Gower are promoted by Swansea Council", then that's acknowledging the two as separate places? Otherwise, Swansea Council would just be promoting tourist visits to Swansea. EJBH (talk) 12:11, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This was a rather pedantic discussion that we had some time ago. As I explained in the conversation, Gower is part of the City and County of Swansea, which is the entity that holds city status. The difference between a legally-defined city and an urban area confuses many Wikipedia editors.--Pondle (talk) 12:26, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is no longer a legal or administrative entity called "the City of Swansea". The former Swansea (district), which included Gower, inherited the city status of the predecessor Swansea county borough and so was styled as the "City of Swansea", and was governed by Swansea City Council. It is inappropriate to include Gower separately from Swansea in an explicit list of "cities and towns that are popular with tourists and visitors" since it is not a city or a town, but a rural area within the City and County of Swansea and formerly part of Swansea district as I explained above. Pondle (talk) 01:28, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Swansea District doesn't exist any more. I will change the article to say areas that are popular with tourists. Welshleprechaun (talk) 14:02, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oystermouth Castle

Yes, it is a close call whether it's in the Gower or Swansea (another example of the difficulty of disentangling the two places!) It overlooks the Mumbles and on the basis that the Mumbles is part of Swansea, I'd put it in Swansea. http://www.multimap.com/hotels/?&t=l&map=51.5848540314508,-3.99556593725279%7C13%7C4&loc=GB:51.5848540314508:-3.99556593725279:13&dp=841#t=l&map=51.58333,-4%7C14%7C4&dp=841&loc=GB:51.58333:-4:14%7COystermouth%7COystermouth http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/census2001/ks_urban_sw&w_part_11.pdf Pondle (talk) 17:58, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The two sources on its Wikipedia page say it's in the Gower: [2] [3]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Welshleprechaun (talk • contribs) 18:04, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Look at the map. Here's a couple more for you if you STILL aren't convinced! http://getamap.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/getamap/frames.htm?mapAction=gaz&gazName=g&gazString=SS6135088350 http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=261350&y=188350&st=7&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf Pondle (talk) 18:06, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

BTW note that the castle was built before the growth of Swansea (obviously). At the time it would have been sensible to refer to the castle as being in the Gower. Subsequently Swansea's urban development encroached on the castle as you can see from the map. Please be consistent with Mumbles, which is overlooked by the castle and which everyone (inc the ONS) regards as part of Swansea. Pondle (talk) 18:13, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]