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Template:Did you know nominations/Zainal Mustafa

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by PFHLai (talk) 00:58, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Zainal Mustafa

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  • ... that the death of Zainal Mustafa was in 1944, but his family knew it 26 years later?
  • Comment: It's my second nomination. I don't need to do a review, right? αδζ ψακ φρψερ 05:28, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Created/expanded by Redyka94 (talk) and Crisco 1492 (talk). Self nom at 05:21, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

  • (Not a review) Umm... I don't think so. However, the rules seem to be having 5 DYK make credits, and not 5 self-nominations. I can vouch for Redyka that this is only his second DYK self-nomination, after Gugun Blues Shelter. As for the hook, how about ALT1 ... that although National Hero of Indonesia Zainal Mustafa died in 1944, his family only learned about it 26 years later? Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:35, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh, it is counted based on credit, not nomination? I understand. ALT 1 is better IMHO. Sorry for bad grammar in the main hook. αδζ ψακ φρψερ 10:30, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
  • WP:DYK says "New nominators (those with fewer than five DYK credits) are exempt from this review requirement, as is the nomination of another editor's article. For help in learning the reviewing process, see the reviewers' guide." I have no qualms about doing a review for you though. Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:14, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
I might expand this a bit as well. Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:20, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
  • I've finished my expansion (quite an interesting hero, I must say). Do you mind if I add myself as co-nominator? Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:21, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
  • No, I don't mind. I should ask you first before nominating it. αδζ ψακ φρψερ 09:47, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Oh, if you want to do something independently no problem. Just let me know if you want a copyedit. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:55, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
  • ALT1: ... that Zainal Mustafa died in 1944, yet his family did not learn of it until 26 years later?
  • Date and length check out, and AGF on the hook and sources. Article needed a serious copyedit, as did the hook (see ALT1). I'm not sure on the neutrality of the article, given the way the article reads and the highly political and religious nature of his life. If there is someone out there with better knowledge of Indonesian history, a second opinion would be good. – VisionHolder « talk » 10:08, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
  • I've given it yet another copyedit. Assuming you mean the "accused of being crazy and heading a cult" as being non-neutral, here it is (hopefully you can see it in Snippet view) in an English book. This one (page 13 if the link isn't working) says the Japanese considered him a "dangerous fanatic". If you are opposed to the statement that he was tortured, it is in several Indonesian sources and also not an uncommon thing in Japanese-occupied areas during World War II. Without more specific information as to what you consider POV, I cannot address it. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:09, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm not trying to criticize the subject of the article, nor the author. Rebels, religious fanatics, and martyrs often have strongly biased literature that surrounds them. Without a better knowledge of Indonesian history, I wanted to make sure that the topic was being discussed in a non-biased fashion. On top of that, prior to the copyedits, the article read the way a fan would talk about an idol. Maybe it was just the conversational English (as opposed to professional prose) coupled with the topic that set off a red flag in my mind. I'm don't really think anything needs to be changed. The article is interesting, very well referenced, and pretty much meets all the requirements. I just want someone else—preferably with a background in Indonesian history—to quickly glance over the article to ensure that it's not biased. Otherwise, I have no problems with the mention of torture or anything like that. – VisionHolder « talk » 07:00, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
  • No doubt... and some people can come with even wilder ideas. I've requested a second opinion at WT:DYK, although finding another editor familiar with both DYK rules and Indonesian history will be difficult. Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:18, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
  • I think if one of the admins looks over the article before dropping it in the queue, it should be fine. I agree—finding someone with a good background in Indonesian history would be difficult. But there's no harm in asking... especially in a community as diverse as Wikipedia. – VisionHolder « talk » 18:12, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Agreed... hopefully someone responds. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:14, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
  • I think it's OK (FYI, I have a little knowledge of Indonesian history and I helped the submitter with his previous DYK). The article looks good to go with Crisco's ALT1. Prioryman (talk) 08:24, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
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