Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/FC L'Escala

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. -Scottywong | gab _ 16:44, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

FC L'Escala

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Contested PROD. Concern was "Football club which has never played in national level and with minimal media coverage. Fails WP:GNG.". It was contested by League Octopus (talk · contribs), who said that "With 185,000 Ghits its is absurd to state that FC L'Escala has "minimal media coverage". How can it be stated that the article fails WP:GNG with this level of media coverage?" However, the number of Google hits is not an indication of notability, as quality of sources prevails over quantity – and the quality of these links here reeks. Instead, a GNews search produces nothing of value. – Kosm1 fent 13:36, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. – Kosm1 fent 13:39, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment In terms of media coverage FC L'Escala provides 187,000 Ghits and L'Escala FC provides 574,000 Ghits. Whilst sharing some of Kosm1fent's concerns regarding the quality of the sources the statistics do nevertheless set a benchmark in identifying the considerable level of interest in this small Catalan club. This in my view suggests that the research of historic newspapers in local libraries would be likely to deliver a wealth of information on the club.

From just a cursory look at the available sources it is possible to establish that FC L'Escala uses a well appointed 2,500 capacity enclosed stadium with a stand, standing areas and floodlights. Notable players that have played for the club include Martín Prest, Cesar Alberto Castro, David Meza and Roberto Fabian Sanchez Doldan. As recently as 1 August 2012 a high profile friendly was played against CE Sabadell which is highlighted in the 2012–13 CE Sabadell FC season.

FC L'Escala play at the Divisiones Regionales de Fútbol which is a "grey area" in terms of club notabity with some clubs meeting and other clubs failing to meet WP:GNG. FC L'Escala has reached its centenary in 2012 and in my view every chance should be given for a reasonable article to be prepared on the club. In this respect I consider in the interests of fairness previous contributors such as Raymond Cruise should be given the opportunity to improve the article (which first appeared in 2007). League Octopus (League Octopus 09:04, 10 August 2012 (UTC))[reply]

The number of Google hits makes no statement about the reliability of the sources or the extent of the coverage, which are two important requirements for GNG. The rest are not guideline-based notability criteria. However, I'd also support userfying the article into your userspace if you feel you can bring it up to GNG standards. Cheers. – Kosm1 fent 11:06, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Userfy into League Octopus' user space (if he is willing to take it) so he can work on it - not notable/ready for mainspace yet. Giant Snowman 10:45, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment With reference to RSSSF - Spain - Final Tables Catalonia and the Catalan football championship it is confirmed that the competition in Catalonia was the first football league in Spain before the La Liga was established in 1929. In the 1920's FC L'Escala played 8 seasons in the competition's Third Division [Tercera Categoria] which at that time was the third tier of Spanish football:

As FC L'Escala has competed in a league of equivalent status to a current Spanish league - Tercera División (fourth tier) - a club in this position should normally be assumed to meet WP:N criteria (having regard to previous examples in England) . I would be grateful if you will assist me to clarify this position before I embark on re-writing the article. League Octopus (League Octopus 21:14, 10 August 2012 (UTC))[reply]

Keep - has played at high enough levels historically. Nfitz (talk) 21:33, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- No guideline-based argument. Moreover, the team doesn't pass WP:GNG, which is the prevailing notability criterion. – Kosm1 fent 05:31, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
~~Weak delete~~ - This club played at the third tier of Catalan football before the Spanish league system was established, right? I don't think that should confer notability, but I wouldn't mind userfying this article so that League Octopus can work on it, and move it into main-space when finished. Mentoz86 (talk) 22:33, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There appear to be quite a few newspaper articles on FC l'Escala at:

The most significant one is at http://udg.mynewsonline.com/index.php?screen=preview&q=EDA201202281131/G034.

While the club's centenary year is in 2012, the Llibre d’Or del Futbol Català (Golden Book of Catalan Football) published in 1928 indicates that the club was founded in May 1921 (probably the date the club was first affiliated with the Catalan Football Federation).

I am still picking up new information on the club that makes me worry about the soundness of deleting this club article:

Comment Pre-season prestige friendlies appear to be a regular occurence for FC L'Escala. On 16 July 2011 FC L'Escala hosted a game against FC Barcelona B for which there are numerous links (and video clips) including:

total Barça
Fútbol Blog Barcelona
FCB Planet
video clip. League Octopus (League Octopus 13:31, 16 August 2012 (UTC))[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 16:32, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The above match between FC L'Escala and Barça B was watched by 2,000 spectators. - http://sportivitis.foroactivo.com/t2427-futbol-resultado-partido-amistoso-lescala-vs-fc-barcelona-b League Octopus (League Octopus 20:38, 16 August 2012 (UTC))[reply]
- Only significant non-routine coverage from reliable independent sources can justify notability, and unfortunately I don't know Spanish, so I cannot read and evaluate the newspaper sources you provided. Everything else you wrote makes absolutely no statement of notability. – Kosm1 fent 13:36, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - I have only "scratched at the surface" of this small Catalan club but have found a range of information that if aggregated together would in my view begin to provide the semblance of an interesting article. The problem is I cannot speak Catalan or Spanish and cannot get to grips with newspaper articles like this one - http://udg.mynewsonline.com/index.php?screen=preview&q=EDA201202281131/G034. Going back to my original point I am sure that if this club was properly researched there would be a wealth of information - the fact that I (an Englishman) can begin to locate key articles suggests that there are a lot more available. Given the location of the resort of L'Escala near the French border there must be connections with the Spanish Civil War. It would be interesting to know if the book - "L'Escala, 1931-1947: república, Guerra Civil, postguerra" Author: Mercè Vila 1994 - throws up details of the football club (and its ground) during that difficult time. The comments made above by Kosm1fent appear to dismiss the possibility of "potential coverage in reliable independent sources" (that would contribute to notability) on the grounds that we cannot speak the language. Perhaps members of the Spanish football task force might be able to contribute to this discussion. League Octopus (League Octopus 21:49, 17 August 2012 (UTC))[reply]
Weak Keep or Userfy - it's been almost two weeks, without the strong opinions either way. I'd suggest we close this AfD and let League Octopus go ahead and improve it. Mentoz86 (talk) 02:53, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OK then, withdraw nomination – the article appears to have some potential and I'm willing to let League Octopus work on it. If his improvements are not sufficient, it can always be renominated at AfD. Cheers. – Kosm1 fent 04:56, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I am building up an interesting article that should appear in the next week or so. As Kosm1fent says it can always be renominated at AfD if necessary. The most famous player to have donned the club's colours was José Puig Puig who played for FC L'Escala in 1939-40 before moving on to Girona FC and FC Barcelona where he made 178 appearances and represented the Spanish national team on 3 occasions. In more recent times the club has made a number of unusual signings including Martín Prest, the Argentinian striker, who previously played for Airdrieonians, Ross County and Raith Rovers. Three other South Americans joined the club in 2007, Cesar Alberto Castro (Venezuela), David Meza (Paraguay) and Roberto Fabian Sanchez Doldan (Paraguay), before all three then moved on to the Greek Super League club Atromitos. I am particularly intrigued whether Atromitos paid a fee for the three South Americans and how this unusual move was set up. Any Greek info/sources? League Octopus (League Octopus 15:07, 22 August 2012 (UTC)).[reply]
- Sure, I'll search. Sadly however, the club's website was redesigned and "naturally" old news pieces no longer exist... *rolls eyes* – Kosm1 fent 16:48, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.