Talk:El Escorial

The Granjilla of The Royal Place of El Escorial - La Granjilla de La Fresneda

La Granjilla de La Fresneda, is known as both, La Granjilla and La Fresneda.[1]. It is an essential Cultural Treasure of the Royal Site of El Escorial. It was planned by Philip II of Spain as a Real Cottage closed by a fence of dry stone. Juan Bautista de Toledo, Royal Architect, and Gaspar de Vega, Royal Stonework Master, designed it as a Royal Private Park into a Royal Private Estate, The Royal Place of El Escorial, isolated and protected from the rest of the world by a Royal Wall of Dry Stone known nowadays as La Cerca Real (The Royal Fence) and La Cerca de Felipe II(The Fence of Philip II). [3]. Conceptually, La Granjilla (La Fresneda) was the counterpoint of the Monastery: for Fray José de Sigüenza, The Fresneda’s Park was an earthly image of the Paradise.

The monumental area of the Historical Place of Granjilla’s Park (Fresneda’s Park) was built between 1563 and 1569. San Lorenzo's Monastery was built between 1562 and 1584; previously, in 1561, Felipe II moved The Court from Toledo to Madrid.

La Granjilla and the Monasterio de San Lorenzo are two homologous Royal Sites, essential and indivisible parts of the Cultural Landscape of the Royal Site of El Escorial, cultural, natural and symbolic legacy of the Spanish Crown to the Spanish People.[4].

Annotations

[1]. Also as, La Fresneda del Real Sitio del Escorial and La Granjilla del Real Sitio del Escorial.

[2]. In 2006, “La Cerca Real” was declared Cultural Good by Madrid’s Regional Government. Vide, CAM, Decreto 52/2006 – BOCM 21/96/2009.

[3]. La Granjilla (Real Sitio del Escorial)

[4]. La Granjilla is a Welfare of Cultural Interest. By its historicity, until the 19th century, it could be considered Cultural Heritage of the Hispanic Monarchy in The Royal Place of The Escorial. Nowadays should be declared, urgently, Spanish Heritage to be administrated by the Spanish National Trust (Organismo Autónomo de Patrimonio Nacional, Ministerio de la Presidencia, Gobierno de España).

Petition to the Spanish Government: national, regional and municipal authorities

We ask the Spanish authorities:

To declare "The Granjilla de La Fresneda", National Treasure Spanish Heritage.

To include the Cultural Landscape of the Royal Site of El Escorial in the “Parque Nacional Sierra de Guadarrama”. Philip II protected the Royal Site of El Escorial with a Royal Dry Stone Wall.

To declare the Royal Site of El Escorial, European Heritage and World Heritage Site.

The Royal Site of El Escorial is the Inalienable Cultural Legacy of the Parliamentary Hispanic Monarchy to the Spanish People. Direcciones de Internet (URL)

http://apuntesdelasierra.com/descargatelarevista.html

http://camelotescorial.wordpress.com

http://camelot-escorial-unesco.spaces.live.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Architecture

http://lafresnedadefelipeii.blogspot.com

http://lamascarachina.blogspot.com

http://picasaweb.google.es/andres.magana

http://portal.unesco.org/es/ev.php-URL_ID=33840&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html

http://sanlorenzo.ciudadanos-cs.org

http://whc.unesco.org

http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1026

http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1038

http://www.blogger.com/profile/15849597522849484451

http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/spain/madrid/escorial/escorial.html

http://www.cuescorial.es

http://www.descubresanlorenzo.com/tag/escorial

http://www.elescorial.es

http://www.escorialhabitable.com

http://www.galeon.com/patrimoniohistorico/principal.htm

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main

http://www.patrimonio-mundial.com

http://www.patrimonionacional.es

http://www.sanlorenzodeelescorial.org

http://www.sanlorenzoescorial.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Escorial

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Granjilla_de_La_Fresneda_de_El_Escorial

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Granjilla

http://www.world-heritage-tour.org

http://www.worldwidewarning.net

Créditos

elroto.gmail@elpais.es

http://picasaweb.google.es/andres.magana

http://www.blogger.com/profile/15849597522849484451

author: camelotescorial

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I believe (but I am not sure) that the monestery at Escorial is a Hieronymite - this is supported by the article "Hieronymite" which links to Escorial. --80.164.17.212 11:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

(The UNESCO World Heritage Site of El Escorial and its surroundings which is also part of Spain’s national heritage come under increased pressure, due to uncontrolled urban development in the area. Many local and national conservation organisations have joined forces to preserve the integrity of the historic cultural landscape surrounding the monastery, which has also been recognized to possess great ecological value. In a letter to the Mayor of Madrid and heads of government agencies concerned, Europe Nostra’s Executive President called for the necessary actions to be taken to avoid the further degradation of the surroundings of El Escorial, e.g. by including them in the planned Sierra de la Guadarrama Conservation area.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.148.63.3 (talk) 09:44, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Just made a HUGE addition to the article with lots more translations from the Spanish version of the page (but forgot to login first whoops :-P). Most of the Spanish page is now on here. Also changed the assessment to B-class. Feel free to change it back but it seems to me to be at least B-class now.

Doing my part to improve the Spain-related pages on English wikipedia!

--NetherlandishYankee 05:13, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Camelotescorial, I genuinely appreciate your dedication to raising awareness of the threats to the environment in the El Escorial region; I have visited the area many, many times and I agree that excessive urbanization is threatening the environment. However, your edits to this end are simply not appropriate for an encyclopedia; they are agenda-driven, and however noble the aim, they fly in the face of Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy. They are also not encyclopedic fact, and they are not what most viewers came here to see - regardless of whether or not you think they need to see it. Also, I am sure that English is not your native language, so please check your grammar and spelling extremely carefully before editing English wikipedia pages. I speak Spanish very well but I am still very hesitant to edit any Spanish wikipedia pages. You might also want to be more judicious with bolding text, since seeing a paragraph where practically every second word is bolded is a bit overwhelming to the eye.

--NetherlandishYankee 21:06, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Please Check before editing

The Escorial is currently an Augustinian monastery - and it does not take much research to check this simple fact (ring them if you don't believe web references). References to this are present already in the article via links. Please be more careful in making changes like this without checking. Facts are not based on hunches but on checking and referencing!!Cor Unum 11:10, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Virtually all monasteries can claim Augustinian descent, the interest is in which flavour. In this case, they are indeed Hieronymite, as stated above. The Abbot is a humble man and so we should not proceed too far down the path of naming him.

Relevance

I wonder if the little bit about the Spanish Armada and toppling the English throne in the paragraph under "General Iformation" is really relevant to El Escorial? --NetherlandishYankee 14:22, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

It's called "context" which sheds light on "motivation", Sparky. PeterHuntington 22:46, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay. It was an honest question, no need to be condescending, especially considering the compliment I paid you on your talk page a few days ago. What is your connection to/interest in El Escorial, anyway?

--NetherlandishYankee 23:26, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

floorplan

It may be useful to have a floorplan of the building.Wai Hong 11:55, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

All about the Building, what about the rest?

It would be good to include more info about other aspects of the monastery and not just the building - ie how many monks are in residence, who is the abbot, what are their lives like, etc. Sylvain1972 21:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Move to Royal Seat of San Lorenzo de El Escorial

I have moved the article back. When most people think of El Escorial they are thinking of the palace, not the municipality, and use common name is a Wikipedia convention. The vast majority of links to "El Escorial" refer to the palace. The comparison with Versailles is not really accurate. The Palace of Versailles is frequently known by that name; El Escorial is never commonly known as the "Royal Seat of San Lorenzo de El Escorial". Added to which, Versailles is a substantial cathedral city in its own right, whereas El Escorial is not. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:34, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

The vast majority of sources refer to "Versailles" when speaking of the palace, but nevertheless the article is not kept there for good reason. "El Escorial" is the name of a town, not the name of this palace, which is actually in the town of San Lorenzo of El Escorial. Or move it to "Palace of El Escorial" which would make it less disambiguous. Gryffindor 21:12, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Leaving aside the comparison with Versailles/Palace of..., I agree with Necrothesp above for at least three important reasons: first, common names is where it's at. It would never have occurred to me to look up either "Royal Seat of..." or "Palace of..." - Spaniards and most people who have visited it refer to it as "El Escorial" or mention it in passing as a monastery; second, "The Royal Seat of..." actually refers to a territory comprising the town of El Escorial, as well as the town of San Lorenzo of El Escorial and two or three/three or four other towns/villages; and third, the Spanish Wikipedia solves the issue perfectly logically by having the default for El Escorial going to the village and a disambiguation which includes the a) the Monasterio de El Escorial or de San Lorenzo de El Escorial, b) the Real Sitio de San Lorenzo de El Escorial y El Escorial, as the territory mentioned above, c) the train station the same name, and so on, as well as other references to places with the same name in Argentina and elsewhere. Any possible doubt arising from the ambiguous use of names is perfectly well explained in the body of the text. Regards, --Technopat (talk) 22:09, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

The main arguments are always: if someone was looking for this article, what would they enter, and if most people thought of El Escorial what would they think of? The answers are clearly El Escorial and the palace, not the town (just look at what links to El Escorial - pretty much all those links are actually to the palace). This is good reason to leave it here. I agree that Versailles is partially in the same boat, but the fact is that it is commonly referred to as the Palace of Versailles (although indeed probably more commonly as just Versailles). Royal Seat of San Lorenzo de El Escorial? Never heard of it. Is it some sort of chair? -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:02, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

There are other aspects to both El Escorial and Versailles, such as academic sites in town - indeed, in the case of El Escorial, in the side of the Palace itself. Another aspect is the logistical: we should also provide a guide to how to get there. On the question of San Lorenzo, a leading US academic is in the process of demonstrating that the dedication has its roots in the hagiography of Saint Lawrence, so the town was named for the Palace and not the inverse, unless someone can demonstrate an earlier dedication which might explain the overall choice of the site in the first place.

Related to the foregoing, is the question of what the name of this place should be given as. Yes, the Escorial; but, when a translation into English is given, should that not be Royal site of Saint Lawrence of the gridiron?

Nuttyskin (talk) 13:50, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Esoteric aspects of El Escorial

I am too actively involved in research in the subject to add this objectively, but it should be mentionned here, at any rate. This autumn, an objective history of science conference on the roots of chemistry in alchemy was hosted by the monastery, bringing out some of its rather more arcane history as described by René Taylor, who found strong evidence to suggest that Philip was commited to research in the subject of alchemy making it a root for the design as the third temple of Solomon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.64.11.66 (talk) 22:21, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Further to the last, I have now corroborated evidence accepted at the highest academic level which substantiates the implication of the Temple attribution: this should be taken seriously. I will be publishing this as part of a large academic study of the Eucharist in 2013-14, so this will count as original research. Any editor wishing to follow this thread should contact me on my junk email rahere1 at smartemail co uk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.241.227.84 (talk) 08:26, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Patio de los Reyes

I have just restored the text after originally deleting it. Sorry! It needs wikifying but I suppose it's better than nothing.--Technopat (talk) 16:37, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Shorthand

The sentence 'It is also known shorthand as El Escorial or the Escorial.' requires slight expansion/putting into context. Jackiespeel (talk) 09:20, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Untitled

The MAP showed is incorrect. Being45Km from Madrid, the city map NOT SHOW the true location of the monument. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.21.197.149 (talk • contribs) 19:15, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation in IPA

The lead paragraph gives Spanish pronunciation: [el eskoˈɾi̯al]. It links to the IPA Help page for Spanish, and that page mentions a more detailed article on Spanish phonology. Neither gives any guidance on the value of [ i̯ ]. I imagine it may be important in showing whether the 'i' is syllabic or part of a 'ia' diphthong; that distinction could in turn determine the stress. Could someone who knows please edit [el eskoˈɾi̯al] (or, if necessary, Help:IPA/Spanish) so people with no Spanish can see how to pronounce El Escorial by referring to the Spanish IPA Help page? Thanks, --Frans Fowler (talk) 08:36, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

"much of his seemingly inexhaustible supply of New World gold to stemming the tide."

"Philip II of Spain, reacting to the changes of the 16th century, dedicated much of his lengthy reign (1556–1598) and much of his seemingly inexhaustible supply of New World gold to stemming the tide."

What tide is this referring to. Please specify in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dstokar (talk • contribs) 13:05, 9 July 2019 (UTC)