Talk:Greek submarine Delfin (1912)

Greek submarine Delfin (1912) has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: January 30, 2024. (Reviewed version).

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Military history: Maritime / Balkan / European / World War I

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Ships

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A fact from Greek submarine Delfin (1912) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 October 2007. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the Greek submarine Delfin was the second submarine to enter service in the Greek navy?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2007/October.

Wikipedia

date

An English-language source I consulted corroborates most of this but gives a different date for the torpedo attack:

"The Greeks also had the war's only submarine, the French-built Delfin, which became the first undersea boat to fire a self-propelled torpedo in action. In the attack, on 22 December 1912, the Delfin targeted the Ottoman cruiser Mecidiye from a distance of 800 meters, but the torpedo missed the mark."

From: Sondhaus, Lawrence (2001). Naval Warfare, 1815-1914. Routledge. pp. p. 220. ISBN 0415214785. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help) In any case might be worth adding as an English-language source to corroborate the "first torpedo" claim. --Delirium 06:05, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The different date results from the discrepancy of the Gregorian and Julian calendars. Greece used the Julian system until 1922, so there is a difference of 13 days. I am however including the reference. Thanks! Cplakidas 18:22, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Greek WP says that this happened on Nov. 21st, ([1]) which is 13 days before Nov. 9th, as if the latter is the old calendar and Nov. 21 the new. But this is not sourced.--Euzen (talk) 09:37, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Moved

As you can probably see, I moved this - do let me know if anything went awry. No more bongos 06:16, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I moved it back. Well done for being bold, and please continue to be so in the future, but in this case, as per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (ships), the article was correctly titled in the first place. Kind regards, Benea 13:46, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Replied on my talk page - oops. No more bongos 16:42, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Knots

I'm translating the page for it. wiki... 85 knots sumberged is correct? --Zerosei (talk) 10:10, 29 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, obviously not. Someone mistyped, it should be 8.5. Good catch! Constantine ✍ 10:29, 29 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Greek submarine Delfin (1912)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sturmvogel 66 (talk · contribs) 10:22, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll get to this shortly.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 10:22, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Sturmvogel 66: Happy holidays. Just a ping in case you forgot about this review. If you are short on time feel free to fail it.--Catlemur (talk) 07:39, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about that.

Pictures appropriately licensed
You refer to Delfin both as it and she; pick one or the other.

Done

small depth of the flood port I think you mean diameter, not depth.

The source states depth, since the book is bilingual (Greek + English) I doubt it is a typo because it says depth in both languages.--Catlemur (talk) 17:13, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This makes no sense to me, but I'm not gonna fuss over what I think is the original author's mistake.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 02:27, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How could it dive with the flood ports closed? How else would water enter the ballast tanks?
- Still needs to be addressed--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 02:27, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sturmvogel 66: Diving was done with the flood ports closed and the vent valves open. It is estimated that this move was done purely because handling of the flood ports was easier, than that of the vent valves, and so partial filling of the ballast tanks, due to the pressure of the air in them, was avoided and, a negative inclination from the out of proportion inflow of water in the bow and stern ballast tanks, was also avoided. In emergency situations, in order for the submarine to surface, the vent valves closed and with the flood ports open, air from the air-cylinders was channeled in, under great pressure, in the top parts of all ballast tanks. That should be all.--Catlemur (talk) 21:32, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That still makes no sense as the flood ports are the only way that water enters the ballast tanks. I don't doubt that you're saying what your sources say, but I think that it would be best if we summarized this further to say that care had to be taken when flooding during a dive to prevent the bow taken too step an angle, rather than get into the technicalities.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:23, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sturmvogel 66: I added that great caution had to be exercised during the procedure. Or did you have something else in mind? I am not quite sure what kind of phrasing you suggest I use.--Catlemur (talk) 14:54, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I tweaked a little, but you had the gist of it.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 19:57, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

three diving planes sets of diving planes since they come in pairs

Done

How many propellers? Be sure to add that info to the infobox as well
- Still needs to be addressed--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 02:27, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done

Link pressure hull, trials, commissioning, diving depth, barge

Done

I think that external hull is better than light hull

Done

It's not readily apparent to a casual reader that the collars and the frames are the same, IMO.

Done

Who originally ordered the subs? Or were they speculative builds by Schneider?

The source does not directly state who ordered it, but a speculative build is implied. The Navy of Peru ordered its Palacios submarine from Schneider slightly prior to the Greek order.--Catlemur (talk) 17:13, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 02:27, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Expand on why Salamis Naval Base was not prepared to support the subs and how Nordenfelt I was basically ignored after delivery

Done

Delfin was ~~forwarded~~ to Tenedos transferred

Done

its compartment rested ??? Do you mean the crew?

Changed to crew.

Done

sailed submerged in battle order towards the enemy awkward
Would you kindly clarify how to make the sentence less awkward?--Catlemur (talk) 16:16, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
More later--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 01:35, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've cleaned up a lot of the text in the Balkan Wars and later section; feel free to revert as you see fit.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 02:27, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delfin spotted Mecidiye, the cruiser Berk-i Satvet and four destroyers sailing straight towards their estimated course in preparation for the attack. This confuses me as it's not clear who was steering for whom. Do you mean to say that the Ottoman ships' course was going to intercept that of Delfin?--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 02:27, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done This was indeed confusing, I reworded it.Catlemur (talk) 21:37, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Better, but I've reworked it. Feel free to revise it if you dislike my changes. Don't forget that there are still a couple of points that need to be addressed.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 12:11, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The main source is at a library and its not on loan anymore. I will try to get access to it in the following days.--Catlemur (talk) 20:10, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]