Talk:Hassan Niazi (actor)

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Requested move 23 July 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was proposed in this section that Hassan Niazi (actor) be renamed and moved to Hassan Niazi.

result:
No consensus. See no agreement below to rename this article at this time. As is usual with no-consensus outcomes, editors can strengthen their arguments and try again in a few months to garner consensus for a page move. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy Publishing! (nac by page mover) P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 08:05, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Links: current log • target log

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Hassan Niazi (actor) → Hassan Niazi – Disambiguation is unnecessary since there are only two possible subjects and one of them is clearly the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Cannot move myself due to the presence of the disambiguation page. M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 03:00, 23 July 2020 (UTC)—Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 19:19, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). -- Dane ^talk 06:02, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Establishment of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is not proven. A casual search for 'Hassan Niazi' instead points to a third figure - a lawyer and nephew of Prime Minister Imran Khan. Epistulae ad Familiares (talk) 05:32, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Epistulae ad Familiares, your comment was not copied here by Dane; I have now done so. M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 01:37, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Given that the Hassan Niazi that you mention does not have an article here, he is pretty much irrelevant with regards to WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. As the IP editor says below, between these two articles, a user is far more likely to be looking for a current actor than a "barely notable fencer" from the early 20th century. M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 01:37, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for transferring my comment over. The point I wished to put forward was not that Hassan Niazi the lawyer/newphew of Imran Khan should be the primary target of the title "Hassan Niazi" (which is impossible because he does not have an article), but that there are insufficient grounds to establish that either of the other options (the fencer or the actor) is the primary topic. Bear in mind that the lawyer still has to be considered even though he does not have an article; whether or not the lawyer exists as an article does not impact the principles of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. (See WP:PRIMARYRED, which deals with disambiguation pages with only a single blue link, but its statement is of relevance here: When a disambiguation page lists only one existing article by that name (all other suggested articles are red-linked), the normal rules for primary topic still apply.)

I wish to return to the principle of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC: A topic is primary for a term with respect to usage if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other single topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term. Given that current sources are more likely to talk about the lawyer than the actor, I am not convinced that, at this moment, the Hassan Niazi the actor is either "much more likely than any other single topic" (lawyer or fencer), let alone "more likely than all the other topics combined" (lawyer and fencer combined). Note my emphasis on "much", which I take to imply that one topic must dominate any other option by a huge margin, which is definitely not the case here.

All that being said, I am cognizant that part of the reason why casual searches seem to discuss Hassan Niazi the lawyer more often than Hassan Niazi the actor or fencer may be a consequence of certain recent public disputes that have attracted media coverage, and this could very well be a transient phenomenon. Perhaps in a couple more years things may change and we may have a clearer idea of which Hassan Niazi is the primary topic by then, but as of now, without any clear, incontrivable evidence, my stance is that we should be patient and wait and see. Epistulae ad Familiares (talk) 14:19, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support – I see no reason why this wouldn't be the primary topic when the only other article is about a barely notable fencer. 207.161.86.162 (talk) 06:29, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – as above. Epistulae ad Familiares (talk) 14:19, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – seriously, a primarytopic grab for an obscure Pakistani actor? Dicklyon (talk) 01:37, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure what him being Pakistani has to do with anything. Do you seriously expect someone named "Hassan Niazi" to be from, say, Réunion? M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 01:46, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, being Pakistani has nothing to do with it. Just that he's pretty obscure in most of the English-speaking world, I think. Dicklyon (talk) 03:09, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So your argument is "English-speakers don't know him, so PRIMARYTOPIC doesn't apply". That's a non sequitur, because PRIMARYTOPIC has absolutely zilch to do with how much the average Wikipedia reader knows of the subject; the question that one asks with regards to PRIMARYTOPIC is "which article would a person searching this name most likely be looking for?", and so far, nobody has been able to present an argument that the Egyptian fencer (you did look at the existing DAB before commenting, right?) is somehow less "obscure" and more likely to be searched for. M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 03:33, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, I'm not saying that one is less obscure than the other. Dicklyon (talk) 05:22, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.