Talk:List of Legion of Super-Heroes members

Chronological order

I'd like to put the roster in order by when they joined, probably putting it in a table that has their code name, real name, planet of origin, and what issue they joined. I've already got most of this information from back issues. Thoughts? CovenantD 03:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay, in the lack of any response, I'm going to go ahead and start creating the tables and inputting the data. CovenantD 23:56, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for starting the page! Great job. I've done a lot of work on the classic Legion section; still a lot to do however on the Modern Age versions.

I combined a couple of sections, removed some redundancy (no need to re-list the old members who participated in reforming the group after the five-year gap), and also tweaked the table headers a bit to try to help clarify the confusing state of affairs surrounding the order in which the earliest members joined. Chris1435 20:55, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Nice. CovenantD 22:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Look forward to collaborating on this. Chris1435 00:56, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Rejected members

Shouldn't Dynamo Kid be listed under a section called "Rejected Members", as he never actually became a member? This new section would list such incredibly minor non-members as Lester Spiffany, Storm Boy, Green Boy, and Rainbow Girl. Thoughts?Konczewski 16:46, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I made a list of rejected members of the Legion on and is about six pages long. -Golem866 (talk) 12:10, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Dr. Mayavale

Whoever deleted the Dr. Mayavale page and removed him from the list of characters, your name is going on the DM-ADLPE list (Dr. Mayavale anti-defamation league public enemy list). You and Michael Grabois. I mean it. Do not doubt the greatness that is Dr. Mayavale!!! I have been forced to archive the text over at my own [[1]] (all in good fun)...

I didn't realize I was still on the Dr. Mayavale ADL. Thanks for reminding me. MG 06:54, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The characters that were retroactively added after the"5 year gap" still need to be added. i.e. Andromeda and Shakespere.````

Kid Quantum

The Kid Quantum entry is wrong you might want to go to the character's page and correct the dates you used here, and make separate entries for the other two Kids Quantum. --68.81.70.65 (talk) 22:10, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Lightning Saga/Action Legion compared to Pre-Crisis Legion

To clarify my stance on a disputed point:

The Lightning Saga/Action Legion is not "one and the same" as the pre-COIE Legion. One shared adventure with the JLA and JSA (from Justice League of America v1 #147-148) restored to continuity doesn't make this version of the LSH "one and the same" as the Earth-1 Legion, any more than it makes the current JSA "one and the same" as the Earth-2 JSA originally depicted in the same story. The current JSA is a parallel version because it comes from the same world as the JLA, not a different world as in the original story. So too with the Legion.

Consider that this Legion has no history of Supergirl as a member. That fact alone removes stories centered on Supergirl like Action Comics 267, 276, and 287; Adventure Comics 313 (Satan Girl!) and 334; and Superboy 204 (backup). It also requires major changes in stories where she plays a major role, like Adventure Comics 368 and the Ontiir stories in Legion of Super-Heroes 302-303 and Tales of the LSH 314-315.

That's just a start. Consider that the Legion probably doesn't appear publicly in the 20th century in Clark's time because he has no public superhero ID (we've already seen how the story of Clark's initiation changes), or that Clark can't travel through time under his own power. There is no Jimmy, Pete, or Lana; no LSP; no villainous teenage Lex Luthor.

All of these changes remove or modify a number of stories from the pre-Crisis Legion canon, just like making Superboy a character from a pocket universe did, or removing him from Legion history and turning Mon-El into Valor did. Because of those changes, the post-Crisis ("Trapperverse") and pre-Zero Hour ("Glorithverse") Legions are parallel versions of the pre-Crisis Legion. By the same logic, so is the Lightning Saga/Action Legion. Spiderboy12 (talk) 06:03, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

To a large extent, I agree with the above — and I'd add the entire Karate Kid/Sensor Girl situation to the list of "this makes them different". But there is also a degree writer's inconsistency spread out across "The Lightning Saga", Justice Society of America, and "Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes", so the continuity hic-ups are just that. And there has been a growing degree of ambiguity of much of the pre-Crisis Superman elements that were jettisoned have been brought back.

Also something to keep in mind - arguing that Johns' Legion is or isn't the pre-Crisis team based on our interpretation of the published comic book stories is OR, and we should no be including a definitive, or even a speculative statement based on it. The best we can do is either leave such a statement out or present information based on Johns' interviews and/or reliable secondary sources. - J Greb (talk) 12:01, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I would also agree to a great extent, and I think much of the debate will be answered by the end of Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds. But I will say this: it's important to avoid the slippery slope argument that every time the writers "tweak" the continuity a bit a parellel universe/reality is created. If that were the case, I could come up with the following "parallel Legions" off the top of my head:

1. The Adventure Comics #247 Legion - the only group that refers to Garth Ranzz as "Lightning Boy"
2. The 21st Legion - found in the 4 or 5 stories where the group is said to inhabit the 21st century rather than the 30th century
3. The "Kara Who?" Legion - the Legion from the latter half of volume 3, where Supergirl was erased from history (as opposed to the earliest post-Crisis stories, where Brainiac 5 mourned for her, and initially thought that she was Sensor Girl)
4. The "Adult Legion story is not canon" Legion - first seen in Legion v. 2 #300, where Paul Levitz presents the view that the infamous Adult Legion story from Adv. #354 is completely speculative
5. The "Timber Wolf is from Zuun" Legion - not to be confused with the "Timber Wolf is from Zoon" Legion
6. The "Phase is not Tinya Wazzo" Legion - the Legion where Phase (from L.E.G.I.O.N.) turned out to be a relative of Phantom Girl, and not Phantom Girl sent to the past by Glorith
7. The "Valor from the 20th century is replaced by the 'SW6 Valor' from the 30th century" Legion - way too complicated to explain
. . . I think you get the idea.

For simplicity's sake -- and with due acknowledgement of the Trapperverse/Glorithverse mess created by John Byrne's decision to cut the Legion out of Superman continuity in 1986 -- I think we have to stick with four teams:
A. the original team, from Adv. 247 to Zero Hour
B. the post-ZH team, from Legion #0 to Teen Titans/Legion Special
C. the volume 5 team
D. the Lightning Saga/post-IC which may or may not be the original team, with some "tweaks"
ABCxyz (talk) 16:55, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

To be honest, a large chunk of what you put forward either falls into "evolution of the story", "fan speculation, encouraged or otherwise", or "negligible writer error." That covers the early name and setting changes as well as typos.

That leaves a number of versions, but with the exception of one — the adult Legion — they stem from some form of editorial fiat. These include:

• Crisis and Man of Steel eliminating crucial 20th century elements for the Legion.
• Zero Hour which to be honest allowed the Legion writer to say "Frak it, back to square one..."
• Waid's "Don't trust anyone over 18" run, which was also a "Back to square one..."
• Johns' cherry picking for the faux Silver Age team.

The effect of Crisis though was to generate two Legions: The Earth-1 one that existed past the end of Crisis as the characters dealt with the loses, and the morass that the Legion was pushed towards well after that where the elements not taken out immediately and fully were slowly bled out.

That nutshell though is that Johns' version doesn't mesh with the pre-Crisis or pre-ZH continuities — and the hitches aren't negligible, natural evolution of the story, or fan based speculation. - J Greb (talk) 17:29, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

My only major disagreement is that -- despite the two major storyarcs ("Lightning Saga" and "Superman & the Legion") -- there hasn't really been that much "evolution of the story" for the latest version of the Legion. We know that this version of the team is way past 21 years of age, and probably the same chronological age as Superman (DC tradition used to keep Kal-El's age frozen at 29, but let's leave that alone). We also know that the Earth has become a xenophobic place which banned the Legion for a time (echoes Giffen & the Bierbaums from the first 38 issues of volume 4). And we know that Superman is the icon which inspired the creation of the Legion (and inspired its members to travel to the past and offer him membership and friendship). Other than the wasteful Karate Kid/Una stories from Countdown to Final Crisis, the story really hasn't evolved much. So before we start labelling things as in continuity, out of continuity, or speculative -- let's wait for Legion of Three Worlds.
ABCxyz (talk) 03:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Minor point of clarification — I was referring to the body of work that ended with Zero Hour as having, among other things, a natural "evolution of thee story". Some of the minor items you had listed as points of divergence in that run are cases of the writers finding the rhythm to the stories.

And you are correct, Johns' stories to date haven't gotten much past the "look at this" stage. So there is very little to support "This is the full return of the original Legion", much less wade through what parts of that continuity are back in play. - J Greb (talk) 21:30, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to say kids, but this IS the Pre-Crisis Legion back, whether you want to admit it or not. First of all, Supergirl HAS been a part of the Legion. Check out Last Stand of New Krypton where she "meets" Brainiac 5 for the first time. Brainy clearly already knows her and has known her well enough that she has TOLD him her feelings about their first meetings. Second of all, the early appearances of Supergirl with the Legion in Action and Aventure comics did NOT according to the actual comics take place with the Legion of Super-Heroes, but rather their CHILDREN. Remember, at this time Superboy was in the 1950's as a child and Supergirl was in the 1970's, so in order to explain the time difference and still have it 1,000 years in the future, they introduced the Legion of Super-Heroes CHILDREN that looked exactly like them. Supergirl's role in the Legion has been minimal and doesn't drastically change the storyline. The various other elements of the Legion meeting Superboy (the Kal-El version), have been PUT BACK IN. So yes, this is the Pre-Crisis Legion with some changes, but nothing to the effect of the 5 Year Gap or the Archie Legion or the Threeboot or even Jim Shooter's RUN on the Waid/Kitson Legion (which much like Giffen's 5 Year Gap, pretty much ignored everything that came before, to do whatever he wanted to do). [[76.23.105.38 (talk)]] —Preceding undated comment added 02:19, 23 May 2010 (UTC).

Long, long before the COIE, Legion writers "retconned" those appearances by the "children" of the original Legionnaires in Supergirl stories to those of the actual Legionnaires, so I'm not sure what the point of that part of your argument is. Personally, I can still think of several differences between this team and the pre-Crisis version. For example, the story of Superboy's recruitment is completely different. Also, because Clark never has a PUBLIC identity as Superboy, all those stories that involve the Legion visiting his time or even battling his foes there (such as Mordru in Adventure 369-370 or the Fatal Five in Superboy 198) are probably gone, along with any stories involving Lana Lang, Pete Ross, Jimmy Olsen, Lex Luthor, or the LSP. Also, you can forget the jetpacks and flying belts from the very early days... Spiderboy12 (talk) 04:53, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Missing Members

How come Dynamo Kid II and Command Kid aren't on here? They did join the Legion. -Marveljew (talk) 19:07, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

5 Year Gap and its place in the Legion

Since DC has now stated rather clearly that the 5 Year Gap is an alternate universe Legion and NOT a continuation of the original Pre-Crisis Legion, should it not be mentioned now that they are two entirely different things in the main article? The 5 Year Gap has always had countless inconsistencies with the original Legion despite all this (especially when they pulled out the SW6 Batch that was the real Legion but asleep all this time). Anyhow, I think it should be noted now in Wikipedia that the 5 Year Gap is NOT a continuation of the original Legion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.105.38 (talk) 02:22, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Er, the SW6 batch were temporal copies made by the Time Trapper. Keith Giffen's comments about what he INTENDED to do doesn't reflect what DC actually published. As for the inconsistencies you mention, they only appeared after Legion history was revamped following the events of LSH v4 #4-5, and can always be explained as a consequence of that revamping. The "Glorithverse" Legion is a "continuation" of the original pre-Crisis Legion because they share much of the same past with them (e.g., the Legion's team-up with the Fatal Five to defeat the Sun Eater and Ferro Lad's death, Earthwar, the Great Darkness Saga, the Legion War and Karate Kid's death, and so on). The same could be said of the current "retroboot" Legion, and you can also argue that there are numerous inconsistencies between this Legion and the original. So one could make the same argument about the current Legion that you make about the Five Year Gap Legion (post LSH #4). But I'd argue that both Legions are both continuations and revised versions of the original LSH. Spiderboy12 (talk) 04:40, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

The intro of the "1958-1994" Legion states that the original group has been revealed to inhabit a parallel universe to the current version; I believe this is wrong, and that the current version IS the same as the original, up to the Crisis on Infinite Earths storyarc (about 1985), and that the remainder of the run is no longer considered canon. This definitively includes the 5-Year Gap Legion, but also includes many other storylines as well (The Pocket Universe being foremost). It might not be a bad idea to make everything post-Crisis to be a separate section, and the list of members (with the 5-Year Gap codenames listed as superseding the earlier ones. -- Couillaud (talk) 19:57, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

XS

Is there a source for XS no longer being a Legionnaire post-Flashpoint? It seems odd, since Gates is obviously still there (given his appearance in Legion Lost). Nutiketaiel (talk) 13:18, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Self-References

Some of the references in the table at the bottom of the page (Catspaw was the one I noticed on) are just redirects to this same page, because they have no individual page. Is that proper? I'm no wiki expert. Generilisk (talk) 20:35, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Which Reference are your referring to? There are two - the Valor issue and an article by Paul Levitz. Ckruschke (talk) 15:55, 6 October 2020 (UTC)Ckruschke