Talk:Offenhauser

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Comments

i loved the mighty offenhauser used in the able hands of jimmy bryan at carrol speedway in gardana,ca. bryan cleaned house on them all. ford v-8 engined cars didn't have the torque coming off the corners to do it. 90 cubic inches of power as i recall. earlier 50's. rolland ruckle —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.200.116.10 (talk • contribs)

What's this engine then? It's in a Ford V8 special, but it says Offenhauser on it. Some special header for the Ford V8? // Liftarn

Offy made speed parts for other engines also. These will be higher compression aluminum heads for the Ford Flathead engine. AMCKen (talk) 05:30, 29 September 2009 (UTC)AMCKen[reply]

World Championship?

Why does this page list only "World Championship" (Formula 1, presumably) results. Offenhauser was never a big player in European racing, it was dominant for years in USAC/Indy. That the INDY 500 counted for Formula 1 points is sort of tangential. Brett Buck (talk) 01:51, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Engine transplant

I lifted this from Miller as OT.

"Miller declared bankruptcy in 1933. His shop foreman and chief machinist Fred Offenhauser purchased the business and continued development of the engine as the Offenhauser, or "Offy", until the start of the Second World War. In 1946 Offenhauser sold the business to two of his racing friends: three-time Indianapolis 500 winner Louis Meyer and Meyer's one-time riding mechanic and engine builder Dale Drake.

"Meyer and Drake Engineering, with Leo Goossen as chief engineer, continued developing the Offenhuaser engine throughout the 1940s and 1950s, and into the 1960s. Offenhausers or the closely related V8 Novi engines often powered all 33 Indy 500 starters.

"After Lou Meyer sold out of Meyer and Drake in the 1960s to form his own company selling Ford double overhead-camshaft (DOHC) V8 racing engines in competition with the Offenhauser, Dale Drake and Leo Goossen reorganized Meyer and Drake as Drake Engineering. In 1968, after three years of Ford DOHC dominance at Indianapolis, a Drake engine powered the winner driven by Bobby Unser. It was the first turbocharged engine to win the race.

"The Offenhauser engine, a re-badged Miller derivative, dominated the Indy 500 and the Champ car circuit in the 1950s and 1960s and continued winning until the 1970s. Adding these, the total wins at Indianapolis increases by 28, with over 200 more elsewhere. 1981 was the first year that an Indy 500 did not include a single Miller-derived engine.

"Descendants of the Offenhausers (and thus the Millers) in the form of the turbocharged Drake-Goosen-Sparks (DGS) and Drake-Offenhauser engines battled against descendants of the Ford DOHC until the Cosworth DFV and DFX engines, originally developed for Formula 1 by Mike Costin and Keith Duckworth, developed unbeatable power at the reduced manifold pressure (turbo boost) limits mandated by the race rules. In 1980, the last Offenhauser to finish a race at Indianapolis powered Gary Bettenhausen to third place from a starting position of 32nd."

If it can be sourced, it might be worthwhile here. TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 16:33, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Compression ratio

The compression ratio is given as 15:1. This is high! With the unusually long history of the Offenhauser engine, and the dependence of CR on fuel chemistry, which improved considerably over time, it's unlikely that the CR was the same through the engine's history. I just don't believe that such a high CR was possible in the early decades, even for a racing engine, owing to the low fuel octane.

Does anyone have more information? Changes in CR over time would be really interesting. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:27, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

♠Am I wrong the Indy roadsters all ran on alky? If so, 15:1 wouldn't be outrageous.

♠Also, it seems a bit odd to me for such a hi CR in a blown engine...

♠You're right on the rest. And I agree, it'd be interesting to know. TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 04:35, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think 15:1 is unachievably high for any fuel, this early on. Andy Dingley (talk) 08:59, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

15:1 is correct, according to Gordon White's book. It's also not at all unreasonable for an alcohol fueled engine. The problem with high compression is detonation, which is dependant on the fuel mixture; the higher the compression the richer the fuel mix needs to be to avoid detonation. With gasoline, however, once you get richer than 12:1 the engine pretty much stops running. With alcohol, you can go as rich as you want, which allows much higher compression ratios.

However, the 15:1 compression was for a normally aspirated engine. All the blown Offy's had 8:1 compression. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.180.123.64 (talk) 21:54, 6 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Offenhauser Sales Corp

Generally Wikipedia's style is to organize articles into a coherent narrative, explaining events from the beginning, to the middle, to the end, or to the present day. Chopping up the story to have one article about the original race engine and one or more articles about the commercial enterprises that grew out of that, through the different generations of the Offenhauser family, would only serve to confuse readers, and leave gaps in their knowledge. As with brands like Indian and Triumph motorcycles, purists and devotees are often offended because the contemporary owners of the name are not considered "true" heirs to the original and so on. Wikipedia is not the place to push such personal opinions. Dennis Bratland (talk) 00:19, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note that we should explain the relationship between Fred C and Fred H Offenhauser, and the disputed use of the family name and the "Offy" trademark. See Hemmings for a summary. Dennis Bratland (talk) 00:40, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Offenhauer/Meyer-Drake Engine Page

Dennis Bratland,

Thank you for the messages and I apologize for being a neophyte here. My revisions regarding the Offenhauser/Meyer-Drake engine page are only to correct factual errors in the article and correct improper assumptions. Although Fred C. Offenhauser, Sr (father of Fred "Tay" Offenhauser, Jr., current President of Offenhauser Sales Corp.) did work for his uncle, Fred Offenhauser (co-designer of the Offenhauser race engine) Fred C. Offenhauser, Sr. left his uncles employment. In 1946, he and Fran Hernandez opened up their own company called Offenhauser Equipment Corporation. Offenhauser Equipment Corporation manufactured performance products for production automobiles.

After Meyer/Drake purchased the rights to manufacture the Offenhauser race engine from Fred Offenhauser, they sued Offenhauser Equipment Corporation for infringement. The court ruled that both companies could continue to use the Offenhauser name. The company which produced the Offenhauser/Meyer-Drake race engine has been dissolved.

In the early 1970's Offenhauer Equipment Corporation was dissolved and Offenhauser Sales Corp. took its place. The logo used on this page is for Offenhauer Sales Corp and is not licensed for any use relating to the Offenhauser/Meyer-Drake engine. Further, any reference to Offenhauser Sales Corp. as being a successor to the Offenhauser/Myer-Drake engine company is factual incorrect. Also, all references used to establish Tay Offenhauser, Jim Offenhauser (now deceased) or Vince Humphreys as management of the Offenhauser/Meyer-Drake engine is factual incorrect as is all references to current number of employees and current revenue.

I reiterate my apology mentioned above and only desire that the information regarding these two companies is accurate.

Sincerely,

Dan Marvin (user:Dmarv89), Board of Director Offenhauser Sales Corp.

P.S. All this information is located in "Merchants of Speed" by Paul D. Smith, ISBN-10: 0760335672 page 155- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmarv89 (talk • contribs) 01:46, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I think I'm starting to see your point now.

As I said above, I had the impression that Offy engines ended up part of Offenhauser Sales Corp after the 1946 sale, but I misunderstood the Hemmings article. Since the two company's only point of overlap is when the younger Offenhauser worked for his uncle from the 30s to 40s, we probably should have two articles -- it isn't the single narrative that I envisioned, but rather two parallel stories. I don't the the engine should be under Offenhauser, but rather Offy or Offenhauser engine, while the other should be called Offenhauser Sales Corporation. The Offenhauser page should be changed to a disambiguation page. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 02:41, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dennis, your corrections are appropriate and appreciated. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmarv89 (talk • contribs) 14:47, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]