Jump to content

Talk:Yuzuru Hanyu/GA1

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GA Review

[edit]
GA toolbox
Reviewing

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Hawkeye7 (talk · contribs) 20:52, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Claiming this one. Review will follow soon. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:52, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • There are a number of unsourced statements like "and he has expressed an interest in training for a quad axel prior to the 2022 Olympics. " (this happens to be a true statement, but in a WP:BLP we need actual sources). The coaches and choreographers section needs expansion. @Hawkeye7: I myself am a figure skater and would prefer to do this review instead, if you don't mind.--Jasper Deng (talk) 07:22, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

Note that WP:FIGURE does not have its own special MOS, and there are very few GA's at all on skating articles, but I do want to make sure it is thorough from a reader's point of view too. I think this is almost ready, but there are a few issues to address here.

#It is reasonably well written.

[edit]
  1. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
    The article is very dense and a bit overwhelming to read – please consider a WP:SPLIT of some of his career information into subarticles.
    That sounds like it would be good for the article. What do you think about a split for Pre-Olympic career into a sub-article with a link from the main article? ErnestKrause (talk) 15:48, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @ErnestKrause: He will almost certainly have three Olympics (Beijing), but it's hard to think of other natural ways to split it. I'm not sure if "Pre-Olympic career of Yuzuru Hanyu" would be a good article title. More formal would be "1998-2014 figure skating seasons of Yuzuru Hanyu", which is blander but is more easily extendible to further splits. I am thinking that he has enough source coverage on every season of his that we could have an article on every four (except before Sohci) seasons, leading up to and including each Olympic Games he goes to. @Figureskatingfan: who had some thoughts on the possible split.--Jasper Deng (talk) 23:45, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Ernest and Jasper, since I was pinged, I'll go ahead and chime in. I think that it's commendable that this article has been submitted for GA, but this brings up an issue with promoting an article before the end of a skater's career. Hanyu's career is far from over, of course, so more content will need to be added, which means that you'll have to resubmit the article everytime you update it. But it's good that you're improving it, anyway! About forking articles; see WP:CFORK, and for a model of an FA about an athlete with forks, see Magic Johnson. I disagree about creating articles for separate seasons other than Hanyu's Olympic performances; I'm not sure they'd be notable enough. Figure skating bios, especially about successful skaters (see Johnny Weir) tend to be longer, although I agree that this article could be shorter. I have some ideas for potential splits: "Yuzuru Hanyu at the Olympics", "List of career achievements by Yuzuru Hanyu" (here's a similar list for Johnson: List of career achievements by Magic Johnson). I think that if you were to create these new article/lists, it would make this article more manageable. Best of luck! Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 04:53, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @ErnestKrause:@Jasper Deng:@Figureskatingfan:I have been editing the article for the last few months now, and about splitting the article, I think maybe we can create "Detailed competition results of Yuzuru Hanyu" then put it with Template:Main above Career highlights. I also agree with "List of career achievements by Yuzuru Hanyu" for his world records and achievements. We can also make "List of awards and honors received by Yuzuru Hanyu" (maybe turn the list into tables so it's easier to sort?) since it already has a paragraph of summary anyway. And for the Career part, I think we could make it more concise rather than splitting them. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 07:24, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Nice comments and suggestions. Which ever option for a split is done, it might be useful to apply a naming convention for the split article which places his name at the front of the new article title, for example, "Yuzuru Hanyu's list of career achievements", if that's the split which is chosen. This will allow the split article to appear in the drop box whenever a new reader enters Yuzuru's name into the Wikipedia article search box at the top of the page. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:58, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Jasper Deng: Thank you very much for all your hard work and polishing the page! I have two small suggestions: (1) Many fans complain that it's exhausting to scroll down the main article, click on the link to the achievements page and scroll down again for the detailed results. I think it would be smart to pin the navigation box of the "Yuzuru Hanyu article series" on top of the main page for quick access. It's currently somewhere below the profile/medal table and doesn't really strike out. (2) It would be good to mention in the record section that he has set a total of 19 world records and 12 of them in the old +/-3 system. You don't have to list them up, but write it in one sentence at least. Otherwise people may think that he has "only" set 7 WR in total, which is misleading.
    Addition: A fellow fan reminded me that Yuzuru was first in the world standings at the end of the 19/20 season, not second. She shared a screenshot of the final standings as of April 2020 on her blog: Understanding world standings Henni147 (talk) 19:05, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Henni147: A WP:Series does the job perfectly. @ErnestKrause: This navigational issue makes me disinclined to pass the article (even disregarding the split issue and Hawkeye7's followup review below). Category:Yuzuru Hanyu is also orphaned; it needs to be placed in all the categories his article is in.--Jasper Deng (talk) 06:18, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  1. The Infobox listing is also confirmed here at List of ISU World Standings and Season's World Ranking statistics. Season 'ranking' is #1, though season 'standing' is #2, for 2019-2020. The Infobox in the article uses season 'standing'. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:58, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @ErnestKrause: Thank you very much for the clarification and link to the page with the standing/ranking lists! There was a lot of confusion with different sources: IFS magazine listed him as #1 in rankings and standings, ASTA as #1 in standings and #2 in rankings and the ISU has updated the tables already.
    @Jasper Deng: (1) The navigation sidebar of the article series itself is totally fine and very helpful. It's just that many fans complained, they needed longer to find the sidebar on the page than the link in the achievement section, and they want to have quick access to the subpages, especially to his detailed competition results. My idea would be to either place a link to the detailed results on top of the page or hide some parts of the (very long) infobox to give the navigation sidebar more spotlight. What do you think? (2) In the infobox the 2021 Team Trophy bronze medal should be placed below the 2017 gold I think? That would fit the medal order of the other competitions better. Henni147 (talk) 14:32, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Let me help answering these. (1) There are rules about the order of things in Wikipedia layout so all articles are uniformed. One of them is all articles started with the infobox then comes the extra sidebar navbox. So there's no way to put it on top of the page. If one finds the infobox is too long, there's an option to hide the medal record part (click 'hide' beside the medal record). Medal Record is set to be shown fully as default to help general audience, who is the main target of wiki as an encyclopedia, to know about Yuzuru in one glimpse. All of his most important achievements also have been listed in the lead (opening paragraph), another part audience will read immediately. With table of contents, they could go straight to the World Records and Achievements subsection where the link to the Achievements article is already there. In fact, that article has been linked four times in the main article despite Wikipedia doesn't allow overlink. So really, it's the most accessible as it can be. With more access to the Achievements article, it will eventually easier to be found by Google too. (2) Fixed. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 01:25, 13 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you! Yes, I expected that the suggestions wouldn't fit the layout guidelines. But I totally agree that the current number of links should do. I also shared the news of the page-split and subpage-links via SM in hope that many people will visit his Olympics and achievement article. Big thanks to the whole team of authors for your amazing work and congratulations for reaching the GA status! Henni147 (talk) 07:42, 13 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  1. There are a few grammar and styling issues that need to be ironed out:
    • Several uses of "n-point barrier". This is not academic (WP:TONE) and should be replaced by "exceed n points". The reader might also benefit from a wikilink to the article on the IJS, or these numbers don't mean much.
      Changing grammar to his 'receiving' specific scores. Changes made to the three or four places I have found which did this. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:50, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Hanyu is the first Asian figure skater competing in men's singles" --> "Hanyu is the first Asian men's singles skater". In general, I will highlight places where you can make this long article more WP:CONCISE.
      Going with concise version. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:59, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "At two years old" – awkward. Suggest "At the age of 2"
      Your version better. Your version added into article. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:09, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • " a condition that slowly improved as he got older." – should be rewritten to avoid any implication that he's been cured of it (perhaps add another clause to the sentence clarifying that)
      Adding his choreographer's account of when Hanyu began to deal effectively with his asthma issues. Add notes. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:19, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "it was revealed his graduation thesis summarizes how much 3D motion capture technology can be used in figure skating and what the prospects are for integrating the technology into the figure skating judging system" – this sentence is clunky. Suggested reword: "his graduation thesis was revealed to explore how 3D motion capture technology could be used in figure skating, and in particular its potential for use in figure skating judging".
      Going with your version. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:25, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "The medal also earned him an invitation" – strictly speaking, his placement did, not the piece of metal he won. Let's be as accurate as we can.
      Better wording refers to his High performance level. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:30, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "in his free skating" --> "in his free skate"
      One of the previous editors before 2018 appears to have made this error 2 or 3 dozen times. These are all fixed now and "All" of the corrections requested below, 2-3 dozen, are now repaired. This entry is the only comment for the global repair of this text fix and is not repeated for all the other ones including the entry directly below this one. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:25, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "in the free skating" --> "in the free skate" – For this and the previous point, skating media never uses the gerund form of "free skate".
    • "He won the competition after placing third in the short program and first in the free skating to earn a new personal best of 216.10 points, and became the fourth, and the youngest, Japanese man to win the junior world title." – This sentence has multiple, awkward, uses of "and". I suggest splitting this into multiple sentences.
      Sentence break added. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:03, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "in the free skating" --> "in the free skate" (as before)
    • "Water pipes under the ice at his home rink burst" – delete "at his home rink". The reader knows from the previous sentence that we are talking about his home rink, so this is redundant.
      Going with concise version. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:31, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "he and other skaters took part in an ice show" – Remove "and other skaters". "Took part" is sufficient to imply that he was not the only skater.
      Going with 'In April, he participated in an ice show...'. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:14, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "the free skating" --> "the free skate" (again)
    • "his free skating" --> "his free skate" (again)
    • "in the free skating" -->"in the free skate" (again)
    • "In the 2013–14 season, Hanyu succeeded in capturing the Grand Prix Final, Olympic, and World titles and broke the record for the short program twice. He was also the first skater to break the 100-point barrier in the short program. " This is chronologically out of order. It should be put in order in a chronology like this.
      Improve wording and correct chronology. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:31, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "in the free skating" --> "in the free skate" (again)
    • "the free skating warm-up" --> "the warmup for the free skate"
    • " in the free skating " --> "in the free skate" (again)

Convenient section break

[edit]
    • "After the competition, he received stitches on his head and chin" – it ought to be specified why he got those stitches. The reader is left here guessing at the outcome of the aforementioned collision.
      Reason for stitches from collision and his subsequent five falls. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:53, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "the free skating" --> "the free skate" (again)
    • "and free skating"-->"and free skate"
    • "training a month afterward" --> "training a month later"
    • "However, in the middle of February, he sprained his right ankle and once again, suspended on-ice training for two weeks." – Firstly, there's no need to be vague about the date (replace "middle of February" with something more specific). Secondly, the part after the "and" is awkward, especially with the unnecessary comma; I suggest "and once again suspended on-ice training, this time for two weeks".
      Date added. The collision news took over for this time period. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:13, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "In March, his training restarted in Japan without his coach, Brian Orser" – This should use a more active voice: "In March, he resumed training in Japan, without his coach Brian Orser".
      Switch to active voice. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:15, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "the free skating" --> "the free skate"
    • " and over bronze medalist Denis Ten" – Not sure this is necessary to mention. If you want to mention this, mention the point margin.
      List first and second only. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:18, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "He also met up with Mansai Nomura, the actor who portrayed Seimei in the film to get advice on how to portray the character" – missing comma after "in the film". I also suggest the informal "met up" be replaced by simply "met", or "met up with" be replaced by "consulted" (in that case, "to get advice" should be removed)
      Met with Mansai. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:39, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "invalidating his popped quadruple toe loop into a double" – The meaning of this needs to be more clearly articulated for less-informed members of the audience, who might not know that a 2TL on its own does not get credit in the short program. It is the act of popping that causes the drop to a double, which in turn causes the pass to receive no credit, so as-written, this sentence places the cart before the horse.
      Two sentence version looks better. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:43, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "and breaking the Zayak Rule by executing a triple Lutz-double toe loop instead of a planned triple Lutz-triple toe loop" – without information on other jumping passes, the breaking of the rule does not follow from the previous part of the sentence, since it would be legal to do two 2TL's as long as one is in a combo, as it seems to be here.
      Too much detail for short program. Trimming text. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:47, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "the quadruple Salchow and toe loop" – try to be more explicit and say "a quadruple salchow and quadruple toe loop" (or use "quad" to abbreviate)
      Quad Salchow and quad toe loop. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:50, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Extra comma was introduced after "quad toe loop" (Oxford comma is not used with only two items)
      Remove extra comma. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:45, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Second section break

[edit]
    • "In the free skating, Hanyu landed three clean quadruple jumps, two clean triple Axels, and five clean triple jumps" – This needs to be arranged by combo as these were not all separate jumping passes. It is also not necessary to use "clean" this much when all passes were clean. It would be more efficient to simply say "all of which were clean" at the end, or (as we do not need to provide intricate detail), just say that all of his jumping passes were clean.
      It was 4 quads according to the source. Undating text. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:03, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "breaking both world records" – world records in what? In a dense article like this, maintaining context is important.
      For the free skate and the combined total. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:06, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "the free skating" --> "the free skate" again
    • "After an error-filled performance" – Suggested rewrite: "After these errors". It seems to me that it is referring to those mistakes, in which case the connection must be made.
      Going with better phrasing. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:09, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "would be taking" --> "would take". Again, use the active voice.
      Use active voice. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:11, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "got worse" --> "worsened" for similar reasons
      Trim words. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:13, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "in being"-->"in becoming". Also, on a general note, in a chronological article like this, individual section summaries, especially short ones, are not necessary and disrupt the flow of the article.
      "Becoming" is better. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:15, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "the free skating" --> "his free skate"
    • "failing to perform a jump combination" – This is unnecessarily vague. There are numerous ways one can fail to perform a combo as intended, so this provides little information for the reader.
      He elected not to perform a planned jump sequence. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:05, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "his free skating"-->"his free skate"
    • "he invalidated one element and failed to perform a combination" – again, either be more specific, or simply say he made mistakes
      Left out a planned combination. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:23, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Chopin's "Ballade No. 1" – The ballade is not a song or opera and therefore should not be in quotes. The correct way to link this is (a pipelink to) Ballade No. 1 (Chopin). Furthermore, the article is skipping ahead by mentioning a "return" to this piece when it has not been previously mentioned at all in the article. Per MOS:LINK it at the minimum needs to be wikilinked at its first mention.
      Link to music article. This edit is supported by the Tables and Charts section which enumerates his individual programs. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:15, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      You should use a pipelink instead of a literal link.--Jasper Deng (talk) 08:06, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      I've tried it both ways, and without the closing quote mark or italic, then the numeric "1" looks odd and seems to break the conventional narrative. Possibly it could be bolded, though that also does not look correct. If you have a preference for the piped text, then let me know. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:49, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Third section break

[edit]

#It is factually accurate and verifiable.

[edit]
  1. a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
    • "Hanyu is regarded by analysts as an accomplished and versatile skater known for his ability to combine strong technique with mature and versatile artistry." – if we are to have a statement summarizing the opinion of the whole skating world, we need multiple sources, not just one.
      Going to triple cites now. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:32, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "As this competition served both as the junior national championships and the World Junior Championships qualifier, Hanyu qualified for the 2009 World Junior Championships. " – [citation needed]
      Shorten wording and correct placement of reference. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:01, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

#It is broad in its coverage.

[edit]
  1. a (major aspects): b (focused):
    In spite of its existing length, the article is almost entirely lacking history on his early skating career, only mentioning that he began at age 4 with his sister
    Pre-junior competition moved to personal life section. Keep Junior competition career separate and independent for clarity in article. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:03, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

#It follows the neutral point of view policy.

[edit]
  1. Fair representation without bias:
  2. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:

#It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

[edit]
  1. a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
    Since jumps are one thing he's known for, there should be more pictures of his air position among other things.
    After checking the foreign language versions of his Wikipedia article, there do not appear to be any such images on Interwiki for one of his air positions. If someone can find such an image and load it into Wikimedia Commons, then I would be able to bring it into the article. At present, not even the Japanese version of Wikipedia has such an image. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:24, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

#Overall:

[edit]
  1. Pass/Fail:
    @ErnestKrause and Yolo4A4Lo: Please address the above issues and ping me when done for another pass. That said, I'm really happy to see a skating article receive much-needed editor attention and I hope this effort is expanded to cover other skaters' articles, and also articles on different elements.--Jasper Deng (talk) 04:48, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  1. @Jasper Deng: Nice for you to take on such a long article for Yuzuru. That's really a useful and thorough list, and it may take more than a day or two for me to catch up. I'll try to ping you when there is significant progress. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:03, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Jasper Deng: That should look a little better. After you have a chance to look at the updated article, then let me know about further changes and updates. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:03, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

More issues to address:

  • " in one competition. " – redundant and confusing (did he only do it at just a single competition? (no))
  • Splitting still needs to be addressed. I suggest opening a discussion on the main talk page and pinging WT:FIGURE.
Invite posted there for all who are interested. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:29, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@ErnestKrause: Lack of interest in a splitting discussion does not mean we can disregard the guidelines at WP:SPLIT, and sadly WikiProject Figure Skating needs more attention. Maybe do a WP:RFC.--Jasper Deng (talk) 01:46, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There may be the added concern of the upcoming Olympics in February. If the split is done before the Olympics, then the page count spikes from new readers may cause them to miss out on parts of the article which may have been split because many new readers will be unfamiliar with all of Wikipedia's options for clicking and re-clicking to find material. New readers might miss out on nice article material. I have no problem doing a split now and have already offered to do one version of the split above. I think, though, that the best timing for the split or the RFC would be for after the Olympics at the end of February. By then there will also likely be a new section for Hanyu and his Third Olympics which will give more options for the best place to split the article. I think the best timing for it is for after the Olympics next February. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:56, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "caused by Hanyu's asthma " We know this is about Hanyu's asthma, so you should use "his asthma" or "the asthma".
His asthma. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:23, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the skaters" – Remove "the". He didn't say that was the whole set of skaters who influenced him.
Drop def. article. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:21, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Nanami Abe became his coach around that time."–If possible, elaborate. Many skating fans are deeply interested in the reasons for coaching changes.
Nanami Abe and Syoichiro Tsuzuki were his coaches and choreographers until Hanyu switched to Brian Orser years later in 2012. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:18, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "3–4 hours a day up from 1–2 hours" – missing comma after "day"
Missing comma added in. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:35, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In the 2013–14 season, Hanyu succeeded in capturing the Olympic (February), and World (March), and the Grand Prix Final titles, and broke the record for the short program twice. He was also the first figure skater to receive over 100 points in the short program. " – again, do we really need this section summary?
Drop redundant section summary sentence. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:38, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Response section break

[edit]
  • "falling on the quadruple Salchow" – per MOS:LINK, only the first mention of salchows should receive a wikilink.
Redundant link to Salchow removed. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:41, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Hanyu's 2014–15 season was plagued by injury and illness. Despite that, Hanyu defended his Grand Prix Final title and earned a silver medal at the 2015 World Championships." – see the above point about section summaries
Remove redundant section summary sentence. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:43, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "His total score was 34.26 points higher than silver medalist Javier Fernández." – nitpick: this is saying that his score, a point value, was higher than Javier himself. Make sure the subject is correct (e.g. add a 's after Javier's name)
Use genitive form. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:46, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In the 2015–16 season, Hanyu broke all three men's figure skating world records twice, becoming the first man to receive over 200 points in the free skate and over 300 points in the total scores. He became the first man to win three consecutive Grand Prix Final titles and earned a silver medal at the 2016 World Championships, despite an injury in his left foot." – see the above point about section summaries
Remove redundant section summary. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:48, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "adapted a triple Salchow into a double" – this is not the correct terminology, even if the action might've been intended to be adaptive. Moreover, it doesn't distinguish between whether he popped it, or simply decided to execute a double in lieu of a triple (the reader wants to know whether he was going for three)
Decided to do a double. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:53, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "instead of two quadruple toe loops" – the toe loop is a toe jump and surely he would not be doing toe loops, but he conceivably could do flip or lutz (which, like the salchow, entail a push off the inside edge). Please clarify this.
Two quad loops which were not performed. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:57, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Changed back to "quadruple toe loops" as stated in the sources. He didn't do flip or lutz because he needed a third quad, and quad flip and lutz hadn't been landed by that time. So his choice was only either quad Salchow or quad toe loop.Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 08:10, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • 2016–17 season: Second world title – see the above point about section summaries.
Remove redundant section summary. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:59, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He became the first man to win four consecutive Grand Prix Finals." – Ice dance and pairs teams have men in them. I think you mean men's singles skater.
Men's singles skater. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:03, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "developing the flu"– Change to "contracting the flu". He didn't craft the flu virus!
After contracting the flu. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:05, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He scored 223.20 in the free skate and set a new world record and a personal bes" – try to find a way to avoid chained "and"'s
He scored 223.20 in the free skate which set both a new world record and a personal best. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:07, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "2017–18 season: Second Olympic title – see the above point about section summaries
Remove redundant section summary sentence. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:10, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "he had set previously" – "previously" is redundant. Suggest "he set" or "he had set"
Set previously. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:13, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • " elected to not perform a quadruple loop" – "perform" should be changed to "attempt"
Not attempt. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:19, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Remove hyphen. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:20, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "by around three points. " – either change "around" to "about" or (preferably) give the exact point value
Shorten sentence. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:22, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "His guests included Evgeni Plushenko, Johnny Weir, Shae-Lynn Bourne, Jeffrey Buttle, and Takahito Mura among others." – guests in the audience, or guest performers?
Jeffrey Buttle and Shae-Lynn had choreographed part of Hanyu's program and Takahito Mura performed a dance during the show. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:31, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "third wave of the Coronavirus pandemic " – "coronavirus pandemic" is ambiguous as there are many coronaviruses. Either use "COVID-19" in place of "Coronavirus" or just omit "Coronavirus".
COVID-19. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:36, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "affected by the disaster stating" – missing comma after "disaster"
Comma added. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:40, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Other callouts on the previous issues have also been placed as replies above.--Jasper Deng (talk) 08:06, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It seems ready for another round of edits and updates. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:40, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@ErnestKrause: I replied in the first list of issues as well; please address those too.--Jasper Deng (talk) 00:08, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
They should all be addressed this time around, and if any need more attention then let me know. Regarding the page split issue, there do not appear any follow-up comments, perhaps readers find that the size at 250Kb is something like a medium sized politics biography article elsewhere on Wikipedia. If you have a final preference from the 4-5 comments previously gathered at the top of this review page for a possible page split then let me know whether to leave the article as is or to try a page split according to one of the comments previously made above. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:58, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Third pass:

[edit]
  • "At the age of two, Hanyu was diagnosed with asthma, a condition that slowly improved as he got older. The condition remained an issue for Hanyu well into his career in Junior competition, and Canadian choreographer David Wilson has stated that it was not until Hanyu's transition into adult competition that he succeeded in learning to cope with his endurance issues caused by his asthma and experienced in the later parts of his performed programs as a Junior" – MOS:CASE: I don't believe "Junior" needs to be capitalized. "as he got older" should be replaced with "over time"
    Shorten sentence using "over time", and lower case for "Junior" when not used as a title for an event. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:26, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • " the actor who portrayed Seimei in the film to get advice" – missing comma after "film"
    Add missing comma. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:42, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "With this result, he qualified for the Grand Prix Final in second place with 28 ranking points" – second place in what? Please clarify (I know and you know this is referring to season GP points, but the reader might not even know what GP points are)
    Add short elaboration of accumulating GP points. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:43, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also, I don't know how much media coverage there is on it, but his fans are very unique among skating fans, especially in their tossing of Winnie the Pooh stuffies onto the ice. This is mentioned in the title of one of the NYT sources. I think WP:DUE weight and broadness in coverage (as a GA criterion) warrant a section on his fans, particularly the Winnie the Pooh throwing, likely in his "public life" section.
    It is a signature for him during his performances. Add to personal life section with TIME magazine article from 2018. Seems to look ok as a new paragraph addition for now. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:19, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

--Jasper Deng (talk) 01:56, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Overall, I feel that an RfC on the split is the last thing that is needed before this can be passed.--Jasper Deng (talk) 07:17, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Jasper Deng: If the article split is needed at this time then Figureskatingfan suggesting that "Yuzuru Hanyu at the Olympics" would be satisfactory is a top option. I would tend to go along with her since that would also address Hanyu's participation in a 3rd Olympics next February. Can we go along with Figureskatingfan on this? ErnestKrause (talk) 13:56, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@ErnestKrause: As reviewer, it isn't really my job to figure out how, and I don't have very strong preferences on the particulars. @Figureskatingfan: for comment.--Jasper Deng (talk) 00:11, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Guys, I went ahead and did some drafting for possible forked articles, and put them in two of my sandboxes. The first draft, User:Figureskatingfan/Sandbox 2 is very much a draft, but you see what I think would be a good way to decrease the size of this article. I'd call it Olympic career of Yuzuru Hanyu, which is just a suggestion and up for discussion if anyone can think of a better title. It would also need an expanded lead and the references fixed. Notice that I included content about Hanyu's Olympic seasons, done because this possible article wouldn't be long enough. You'd have to summarize the content in the original article and add the Main|Yuzuru Hanyu template. The second draft is a list; User:Figureskatingfan/Sandbox 5. I think this list should be called List of career achievements by Yumuru Hanyu. Again, you'll have to expand the lead and fix the refs, and then summarize the sections in the original and add the above-mentioned template. I think creating the two new forked articles will go far in shortening this article and making it more readable and manageable. I realize that this is a lot of work. I'm willing to create the articles, but you'll have to be patient with me. This kind of thing would take way longer than a weekend evening and I simply don't have that time right now. If you're willing to postpone this GAC for three more weeks (perhaps shorter), I promise that I will do it right after I turn in my last paper of the semester. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 06:24, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Jasper Deng:@ErnestKrause:@Figureskatingfan: Hi, I'm willing to help to edit/create the fork articles in case Figureskatingfan is busy. I have checked and edited her sandboxes which I think are good enough already. However, I left out Programs and Career Highlights because I think those are typical information readers expect to find at first glance on the main article. I'm also willing to help integrate the new fork articles to the main one if needed.Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 14:59, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Figureskatingfan:@Jasper Deng:@Yolo4A4Lo: It looks like agreement on this approach which can move ahead at this time. My agreement that Yolo can go ahead with the fork for the two sub-articles. With appreciation for Figureskatingfan who took the lead on this. After it is done then let me know and I can go forward with further updates and edits on the main article with any further edit requests from Jasper. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:29, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Jasper Deng:@ErnestKrause:@Figureskatingfan: I've created articles List of career achievements by Yuzuru Hanyu and Yuzuru Hanyu Olympics seasons based on request. Feel free to edit them as needed. I have added the link to Achievements on Main to replace Detailed results, but I wasn't sure for other parts, so I will leave it to ErnestKrause. I wasn't sure what catergory I should put on the fork articles if there's any, so feel free to add them too Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 07:51, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Jasper Deng: With the new sub-articles now created by Figureskatingfan and Yolo4A4Lo, the further article trims were done this morning and are now ready for the next round of edit requests and updates needed for the GAN. The total page space reduction following the creation of the new sub-articles is at about 25KB. Let me know when your next pass for editing and updates is ready for the main article. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:46, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@ErnestKrause: You do not need to ping me every single time, just so you know. The trimming that was done is not enough; 25 KB is only 10% of an originally-250 KB article.--Jasper Deng (talk) 16:31, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A further 26Kb trimmed last night, which is a total of about 50Kb trimmed. Is that closer to your target? ErnestKrause (talk) 01:07, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm hoping it can be reduced well below 200 KB, especially as his career is nowhere near done. 100 KB would be amazing. 150 is more realistic though.--Jasper Deng (talk) 03:17, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I have trimmed it down to 179 KB. I hope that helps. By the way, the two new articles are still uncategorized. I wonder if anyone has suggestions what category I should put since there's no fork figure article to use as a reference. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 03:59, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There's still more trimming to do. The 2017-18 section in particular should be cut back more in view of how we have a separate article. In terms of categories, I suggest creating Category:Yuzuru Hanyu and making a WP:Series on him.--Jasper Deng (talk) 05:49, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yolo4A4Lo did the further trims last night after your comments above were made and she has added the new Category here [1]. The article appears to be ready for the next pass of edit and update requests when you have the time to do another read through. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:45, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This still needs trimming: as per WP:SPLIT it should optimally have significantly less than 100 KB of readable prose, especially as the article will need continual expansion.--Jasper Deng (talk) 05:13, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think we misunderstood the way of checking the size. The size of the page is indeed 175 KB, but there are only 45,314 characters of readable prose. According to WP:SIZERULE and WP:SIZESPLIT, that equates to 45 KB of readable prose which is still acceptable. For example, GA article Lewis Hamilton is even bigger in size, but the number of characters is indeed acceptable. CMIW Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 06:40, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Following the comment from Yolo4A4Lo, there appear to many current peer review articles that are significantly larger than the current Hanyu article. For example, the Ronald Reagan article is at 275Kb which is much larger in size, and the biography for Richard Nixon appears to be at 175KB which is close to the size of the Hanyu article. The size of the article appears to be within Wikipedia parameters for peer reviewed articles. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:23, 10 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Readable prose is only 45 Kb, so there is no reason whatsoever to split the article. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:30, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies for the radio silence; real life really got to me. @Yolo4A4Lo: When copying and pasting the rendered text, I still get near 100 KB. Maybe that's not the right interpretation of the definition of "readable" prose. @Hawkeye7: However, I strongly disagree that splitting was not justified. At the least, this skater remains highly active and his article must have room to expand as his career goes on. --Jasper Deng (talk) 06:18, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I merely measured it with XTools which is the suggested step on both the articles about splitting and page size I mentioned above. About the navigational problems, I have tried my best with the sidebar navbox and category even though they don't look that much compared to other navbox. I haven't received any notice for deletion, but I'm not sure if the category meets WP:OCEPON. I also have handled the "misleading" summary mentioned above. I hope that will also help the navigation. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 07:08, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Article is well written and meets GA standards. However there are still a couple of issues requiring action.

  1. Is it well written?
    A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
    B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
  2. Is it verifiable with no original research?
    A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
    B. All in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines:
    C. It contains no original research:
    D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
    Do not agree that it is too long.
    B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
  4. Is it neutral?
    It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
  5. Is it stable?
    It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
  6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
    A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
    B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:


Issues with referencing
  1. "He won with a total margin of 37.48 points ahead of Javier Fernández, breaking the previous victory margin record held by Evgeni Plushenko in 2004 (35.1 points)." - reference required
    Addressed and added. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 00:40, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  2. "During the free skate despite a strong start, he again made an error in what was supposed to be a quadruple-triple combination. Hanyu then improvised his layout for the second half of the program, successfully changing three of his jumping passes into more difficult elements to maximize his score after the mistake. He placed first in the free skate with a score of 206.67 but overall finished second behind Nathan Chen by about four points." - reference required
    Addressed and added. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 00:40, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  3. World record scores section - references required here
    Addressed and added. Give me a day or two for the rest. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 00:40, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Programs - references required for 2004-2007
    Addressed and added. All sources are unfortunately printed. For the post cards, there are no official images but I've confirmed the name of programs are written on them. It's also used as reference on his Japanese Wikipedia page too. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 05:21, 13 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Competitive highlights - references required for Team events
    Addressed and added. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 07:08, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Novice - reference required
    Addressed and added. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 07:08, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:56, 10 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

All good then Passing. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:40, 13 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Yuzuru_Hanyu/GA1&oldid=1022916969"