User talk:Toweli

Welcome!

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Invite to participate in research and earn $15

Hi Toweli,

Welcome to the Wikipedia community!

It looks like you’ve been editing here for about a month now. Did you know that Artificial Intelligences (AIs) support Wikipedia? I’m personally contacting a small handful of new Wikipedia editors to make sure your voice is heard as we build and refine these AIs.

Will you please provide an interview to share your thoughts about AI on Wikipedia? You don’t need any special knowledge on the topic going into the interview. It will only take about 30 minutes over phone or video chat. We will send you a $15 Amazon gift card as a way to thank you for your time.

I am working in collaboration with Wikimedia Foundation staff to do this research, so if you decide to participate, your opinion could help build the future of Wikipedia. Hope to talk to you soon!

PS. You can learn more about our study here.

Best, Bowen, aka Bobo.03 (talk) 23:18, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Bully Old Pal!

america Vista9240 (talk) 15:23, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

"Arzinoa" listed at Redirects for discussion

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Speedy deletion nomination of Arzinoa

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Sultan Haitham bin Tariq

May I ask why do you insist on keeping your article on that page? It’s insulting to our current sultan Sultan159 (talk) 23:01, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello. Per WP:5P2 and WP:YESPOV, articles are supposed to provide differing points of view. I do agree that the article could have some other major sources, Omani or Western, supporting either characterization of his tenure in government prior to becoming Sultan of Oman. However, a source must not be removed if it says something negative about a person. I'd also like to mention that the line that you keep removing does not say that his performance was poor, but rather that it has been described as such, by quite a large [1] publication, the Economist, per WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV. Again, I agree that if other major views of his tenure do exist (which I'm sure they do), they should be described too, to reach full neutrality. --Toweli (talk) 12:46, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, I just saw that you did reply to my talk, and I apologise regarding my edit on your page, and I did edit it back! I don’t see why this comment is on the page and not all pages have negative comments, I am an Omani, born and raised in Oman and I strongly disapprove what was written regarding our current sultan, since the ministers had their limitations. Sultan159 (talk) 17:30, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

The edits I have done have done regarding the change of spelling from “tariq” to “Tarik”, there was recently a royal decree stating that the official spelling of the Sultan is, “Haitham bin Tariq”, I can email you the copy. Sultan159 (talk) 17:40, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

“Haitham binTarik**” Sultan159 (talk) 17:41, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Ah, sorry, I see. I understand that there are limitations in regards to what a minister can do. As for the line, I personally feel it should be kept, and it's ultimately up to the reader to believe/trust it or not, depending on their view of the Economist as a whole, or that article in particular. Finding articles that fit your viewpoint, as I stated before, and adding the viewpoint to the article, would be good. As for the spelling of Tarik, you could request to move (rename) the article on the talk page, and if others do agree, move it. After everything's decided on you could also change all mentions of "Tariq" in the article to Tarik. --toweli (talk) 17:59, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Great thank you, I apologise again for the edits on your page I was furious. I’m new to the Wikipedia community and currently learning on how to actually use the functions, I apologise again. Sultan159 (talk) 18:02, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Your thread has been archived

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Minor

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Seaqaqa

Hello. What you've done at Seaqaqa is great. Thank you for expanding this article. Super Ψ Dro 20:38, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Sorry for the late response. I have also recently significantly expanded the Wakaya Island article. toweli (talk) 20:30, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for always catching and fixing my typos, even in my drafts! I appreciate it! Sergecross73 msg me 18:42, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

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Regarding the revert on my edit in the "Valais" page

Hello @Toweli, I've noticed that you have reverted my edit despite the fact that it is the grammatically correct one. I am not sure if there is a policy in which you add an additional comma after a citation, but I don't think there is because it doesn't seem logical as if the article was read without citations it wouldn't make any sense. The citations shouldn't change the grammar or meaning of the article. In fact, I've seen many instances (IN Wikipedia) where it doesn't. So it's hard to believe that you are just complying with a policy. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Please explain your intentions. Thank you.

Ztimes3 (talk) 08:05, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Apologies, I did not intend to revert your edit, but rather the one preceding it, done by someone else, which added duplicated information (the German name is already stated in the [a] and [b] notes). I don't oppose your edit. toweli (talk) 11:41, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Ok thanks, no problem with that. I'm glad I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

Ztimes3 (talk) 05:47, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hi Toweli. Thank you for your work on Ossee. Another editor, Voorts, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

Please remember to tag redirects that you create per WP:REDCAT.

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voorts (talk/contributions) 02:23, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

I generally try to categorize redirects now, I just don't always remember to do it. (And sometimes I'm not sure what the category for a particular redirect would be.) toweli (talk) 18:23, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

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voorts (talk/contributions) 05:25, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

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You've got mail

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AfD listing of HLSW

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Fair enough. I'll keep that in mind. toweli (talk) 22:17, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

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DO NOT REVERT "Black people in Japan" page to the wrong one again.

There was wrong information about Yasuke. See the latest post I put on talk page of it. Those "reliable sources" you say were not appropriate at all. All were based on the Thomas Lockley's false theory. Nothing reliable. In Japanese page of 弥助 (Yasuke) in Wiki, there's no description that Yasuke achieved the status as a Samurai. It's written only in English page, which was also prompted by Thomas Lockely himself to promote his "fantasy fiction" book as if it is true. Don't let foreigners rewrite Japanese history arbitrarily anymore. If you dare to keep the phrase "Yasuke ultimately achieved the status of a samurai", bring the primary sources (NOT a fiction) to validate it like I did. And before doing so, discuss it in talk page. Otherwise your edits will be regarded as vandalism that will result in the loss of editing privileges. Thank you.Penpengusa10 (talk) 04:00, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Lockley's works are not fiction and have never been described as such by any reliable source. Additionally, there are reliable sources other than Lockley who describe Yasuke as a samurai. Like I suggested, check the talk page of the Yasuke article. Through many discussions, it has been determined by consensus that he should be described as such. (Talk:Yasuke/Archive 3) Feel free to report me if you want to. toweli (talk) 12:50, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

> there are reliable sources other than Lockley who describe Yasuke as a samurai.

List up them here.

As I remarked : Yasuke page in English DOESN'T HAVE CONCENSUS Yet. It's locked without evaluating the objection from Japanese historians who checked these sources. Penpengusa10 (talk) 13:07, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Did you read the link I gave? (Talk:Yasuke/Archive 3) It has a very long discussion, where it has been determined that "There is a clear consensus that Yasuke should be represented in the article as a Samurai." The conclusion also mentions the Lopez-Vera source. toweli (talk) 13:11, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I'd already read all of them. They are more or less the same as Lockely's book in terms of the definition of Samurai.

This is tricky arbitrary expression : "Yasuke should be represented in the article as a Samura".

- "articles" meant their conjecture and imagination, not meant "historical records".

Whilst, some Japanese historians analyzed since long and concluded that Yasuke was not a Samurai.

If you cannot know the difference between 侍 (Samurai) and 武士(Bu-shi) in the legitimate Japanese term of definition of that era, do not interfere. Penpengusa10 (talk) 13:22, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Wrong > Lockley's works are not fiction

It's fiction: Lockley made a small disclaimer in Japanese edition of his books, saying that most parts of his book are mere conjecture without any historical fact-checking, in other words, it's a fiction. But in the English version, he treated those parts of his own fiction as if they were facts,writing them in assertive tone.　 Penpengusa10 (talk) 13:12, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Check out how the Japanese page of ‟弥助”describes, first. There is no description as "Yasuke was a Samurai". This is the concensus determined after the discussion with others including those foreigners who refered to your "seemingly reliable" sources. Penpengusa10 (talk) 13:30, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussions made on Japanese Wikipedia and the conclusions they make concern only Japanese Wikipedia. Japanese and English Wikipedia have different policies, standards, and so on. As it stands right now, as of the 12th of August 2024, the consensus of English Wikipedia editors per a lengthy RfC discussion, is that he should be described as a samurai on English Wikipedia. You can go argue your point on Talk:Yasuke, to try to overturn the consensus (it would be more productive than discussing it on my talk page). But, until the consensus is overturned (if that happens), he should continue to be described as such on English Wikipedia. toweli (talk) 13:52, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

That's really rediculous. Why?

1)The concensus of Japanese page are not only made by Japanese. The foreign editors, who commented on English wiki's Talk:Yasuke, also participated in the discussion of Japanese wiki pages. Why do they have to note completely opposite things, even though the policies, so on are different? The content should be consistent even if the language changes.

2)English page is LOCKED and we cannot OVERTUNE the content even though arguing them on talk page. It appears to us that they try to eliminate the objections.

3) I repeat that the sources you and those English editors brought are nothing more than secondary or tertiary materials based on their own interpretations, either or based on Lockely's theory, negrecting the analysis of the primary sources = real historical records, which I showed in talk:Black people in Japan. They never show the proof that Yasuke was a Samurai. Penpengusa10 (talk) 14:22, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

I never said that only Japanese people participated in the discussion on Japanese Wikipedia, just that Japanese Wikipedia's decisions apply only to Japanese Wikipedia. Talk:Yasuke is slightly protected to prevent vandalism, not to silence objections (many objections have been voiced on that page over the past few months). I had assumed that you could edit Talk:Yasuke since you have over 10 edits and your account is older than 4 days old (thus presumably making your account autoconfirmed and eligible for edits on that page). Per English Wikipedia's policies, secondary sources are preferred to primary sources (WP:PSTS). toweli (talk) 14:44, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

> you could edit Talk:Yasuke

Yes, I could.

However, the objections I have were already submitted by many others and I don't need to waste time since I found that these are not concerned (by who?? ) to modify the Yasuke page.

>Per English Wikipedia's policies, secondary sources are preferred to primary sources

I know it. But it doesn't mean you can write something in an assertive tone which has not been confirmed. In that sense, it should be limited to saying, "There is a theory that presume Yasuke was a samurai even though there is no real record of such". Penpengusa10 (talk) 14:56, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Well, to me it's not surprising that different communities, even with some amount of overlap, would reach different conclusions. Maybe there'll come a day when both English and Japanese Wikipedia say the same thing about the subject. The wording, sources, and so on, are still being actively discussed. Good luck. toweli (talk) 15:17, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Daniel Mendoza

Fyi, I've opened WP:ANI#DIPLOMATIQUE916. DeCausa (talk) 21:47, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, that's how I learned about the edits. toweli (talk) 21:48, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

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Arbitrary redirects

Wikipedia is trying to expand pages about anthroponymy - the study and explanation of the origins of last names. I've noticed that you have arbitrarily redirected a few of my pages on this specific subject under the reasoning that there is only one person with that name. Stop. Please understand that this is entirely irrelevant and is in no way a legitimate reason to redirect a Wikipedia page. Anyone of note with any specific surname name can be listed on those pages as a reference, but this is a feature, not a requirement. Anthroponymy pages are there to specifically explain and detail the origin and history of those names, not the people who may have them. These pages have historical and genealogical value, which is why Wikipedia is trying to expand them. Stop redirecting them. Thank you. Daccho (talk) 17:15, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

It has been my understanding that given name and surname pages are only notable if there are at least two bearers with Wikipedia articles. However, I now see that there's only an essay regarding this (Wikipedia:WikiProject Anthroponymy/Standards#Articles), and not a policy, so, fair enough. Regardless, another issue I had with those articles is that they used unreliable sources, like HouseOfNames, ancestry.com (see WP:ANCESTRY), and forebears.io. While only one of those has been listed as generally unreliable on WP:RSPS by community consensus, both HouseOfNames and forebears.io have been discussed by editors before (see Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_371#Houseofnames.com and Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_257#Forebears.io). HouseOfNames is blatantly commercial, geared towards selling products and appears to generate the text seen on their website, resulting in incorrect information (like the Patel example brought up in the linked discussion). HouseOfNames and forebears.io don't cite the sources of the information shown on their websites (I'm aware that HouseOfNames does at least sometimes cite sources, but far from always, not necessarily using reliable sources, and not for all text). It's preferable to cite academic sources. toweli (talk) 18:43, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

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October 2024

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Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:18, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Toweli,

Please sign all of your messages on talk pages, noticeboards and discussions. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:19, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Welcome to the drive!

Welcome, welcome, welcome Toweli! I'm glad that you are joining the November 2024 drive! Please, have a cup of WikiTea, and go cite some articles.

Fix a random page lacking sources

Cielquiparle (talk) 17:11, 1 November 2024 (UTC)