Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hair Peace Salon

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Sandstein 19:08, 28 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hair Peace Salon

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While I believe this article is WP:A7 material I'll start a discussion in respect for the massive amount of work User:Pr12402 has devoted to it. This article is a massive wall of text, documenting every inconsequential detail of the band's existence which successfully shows that it does not satisfy WP:NMUSIC. A load of contests they didn't win, album s & EPs which didn't make an impact on the charts. I can't evaluate the Belarussian or Russian sources but, given the obsessive level of detail in the article, I suspect they're not of much consequence either. Cabayi (talk) 10:58, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Cabayi (talk) 10:58, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Belarus-related deletion discussions. Cabayi (talk) 10:58, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - This article might just overwhelm our process here -- a supremely excessive 296 references and most are in other languages. We may need someone who can evaluate the quality of a massive amount of Russian and Belarussian sources. Via Google Translate, I attempted to spot-check a few of the sources that are currently in the article. A few turn out to be fairly in-depth musical journalism pieces, including those currently at footnotes #17, 164, 189. But many others appear to be WP:ROUTINE listings of gigs, and there are lots and lots of inconsequential social media posts and retail/streaming entries. My admittedly weak spot-checking effort reveals that the band seems to have gotten some press in their country, but their impact on even a small Belarussian rock scene seems fleeting. If the article is kept, it must be severely reduced by a good 90% at least. I bet not even the band's fans have enough patience for this level of anal-retentive detail. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 16:25, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As this article is overwhelming it is easy to lose track of the important references that are valuable and demonstrate the reason why this article should exist (and I totally agree that cropping it to a smaller size would be an improvement in quality and readability). I would not say that I have read them all (actually I kept reading them just till I convinced myself deletion would be too hasty). Of these nr. #158 seemed for me to be the most important one not to support deletion as creators of a compilation albom considered their specific song to be one of the best pieces there, which would make a question about deletion a queston of the value of that portal (which is a portal of a radio station Tuzin.fm, which seems to be one of the major evaluators of the hits in Belarus music) . - Melilac (talk) 06:45, 8 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I testify that the discussed article is not a WP:A7 material, as Cabayi put a notion without being able to become acquainted with the actual sources. According to the criteria for musicians and ensembles from WP:NMUSIC, at least the checkboxes #1, #7, #11, #12 are ticked off for the band. Actually, the band got 1st or 2nd places almost in every contest the band participated. This has been initially put into words in phrases like "successfully participated", nonetheless due that objection the text has been slightly expanded with information about actual laureate places, prizes as winners, and contest stages won (that caused an increase in the article size was being objected by doomsdayer520, although). What it comes to sales charts, speaking to whom it may concern, there were and are no music charts in Belarus. Given the credit to a high volume of piracy, followed by the wide spread of the mp3 format in the 00s, the music in Belarus, like in other countries of the CIS, is pirated or just streamed and shared for free via VK and some other SNS – until the most recent years the article in not about, there were not many legal options to buy records, while the punishment for illegal downloads was and still pathetic. On top of that, the band distributed and distributes its releases for free, so this objective point in not applicable (of course, there were a single split-album with the Jitters band they kind of merged with on West Records released in 2008, where no sales were counted in public nevertheless, some participations in CD compilations under the Tuzin.fm, Euroradio.fm, Budzma Belarusians! umbrella made for sending over radio stations and to preserve the Belarusian language and culture with no commercial goals). As the band stated in the interview printed in the volume #98 of the 我爱摇滚乐 (Chinese: So Rock!) magazine, it’s almost impossible for Belarusian rock bands to live on earnings from the sales of records and performances, even with a large number of fans. Concerning national coverage, the band was non-trivial covered by the biggest general news portals (tut.by, naviny.by (BelaPAN), Euroradio.fm, interfax.by, and more), was the main actor, guest, and performer on shows and programs of almost every TV channel in the country (Belarus-1, LAD (now is known as Belarus-2), CTV, tut.by (online-TV), and more), got broadly covered by thematic musical web-portals (Tuzin.fm, experty.by (now its site is "frozen"), another.by ("frozen"), "Pamyarkovny Guk" (p-guk.org – closed), xlam.by (domain was being sold), LiveSound.by (closed), Ultra-Music.com, and more). Its music was and is in the rotation of every radio station in the republic (I'm having difficulties to proof that notion in words – I suggest just to listen to them within a day) in addition to visiting them on-air ("Stalitsa" of the NSTRCB, Unistar, and more). In the time when Muzykalnaya Gazeta was being published, the band was presented on its pages more than multiple times, stories about the subject of the article were printed in BelGazeta, Sovetskaya Belorussiya – Belarus' Segodnya too, to name a few. An internet access was a luxury in Belarus until the end of 00s and even beyond, so there is some lack of information and valid sources about the early years of the band, while some good sources mentioned above are not online now due stopped paying for web-hosting by owners that caused the inability to put an even higher number of coveted reliable references from them that was not mirrored by the Wayback Machine facilities at the time. What highlighted Melilac (the importance of Tuzin.fm sources), it is lightly visible by googling (https://www.google.com/search?q=Hair+Peace+Salon+site:http://mpby.ru&client=safari&rls=en&ei=FE8NXLunG4SvswG-s7jwAw&start=20&sa=N&ved=0ahUKEwi7gaefoZPfAhWE1ywKHb4ZDj4Q8tMDCGo&biw=1679&bih=865). There are over 30 publications from about 2006 to 2012 (the year when the portal "got scratched" due relocation on new server facilities and changing of user interface), as it may be witnessed, 90% of them are not used in the actual article yet (that is just when digging into one source was kindly recommended to expand upon)! I will strive to elaborate upon that, as well as to put more TV coverage ASAP, mostly on a weekly basis. Please keep that discussion on the article talk page ongoing. Due to a pretty large amount of sources that have to be diligent converted into references and a lack of WikiProject Belarus active members, it can't be done overnight. So everyone is welcomed to participate in putting more verified sources and making the article more streamlined itself eventually, as all high profile references will be put there. - pr12402

300 references already and more to come?!?!? WP:TOOMUCH. Cabayi (talk) 22:41, 9 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - For the folks working on the article, I recommend reading WP:ROUTINE and WP:OVERKILL (especially the "Notability bomb" section). Above, I noted that some of the references in the article are legitimate journalistic accounts of the band. That's all the article really needs. But you also have dozens and dozens of "routine" sources listing the band as being present at some event or noting that their song was played somewhere and what not. Most tiny tidbits of info on anybody are not notable just because they were documented somewhere. There may be a New York Times article telling us what John Lennon ate for breakfast on July 11, 1975 because he spoke to a journalist that day, but his English muffin is not a fact that needs to be in an encyclopedia just because there is a source to support it. Your article on this band is an unreadable attempt to promote them by overwhelming the reader with non-notable facts that happen to have sources. At least 90% of the article's text is useless trivia and should be eliminated, along with the sources that support it. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 15:34, 11 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep - This appears to be the first actual vote. Based on my two comments above, the article could be kept because the band has attained some basic notability in their country. But if the article is kept, it must be reduced significantly to eliminate all the non-notable trivia and link-bombing. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 15:39, 11 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jovanmilic97 (talk) 10:25, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - It seems worth keeping the page due to their notability in their country, but as has been mentioned, some significant trimming of the sources is required. In the beginning of the 'Break-Up' section of the article there is 35 sources all lined up on a single piece of information. Keep but heavily cut down the sources, at the very least for the sake of readability. DeniedClub ^{❯❯❯ talk?} 11:47, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - DeniedClub, thank you for the assessment. This big row of 35 sources has been cut to 5. It's done. - pr12402

Comment:. I admit that the article contains insignificant facts. But this is an occasion to improve and refine the article, and not to delete it. You should rely on such authoritative sources in the field of Belarusian music as "experty.by" or "Muzykalnaya Gazeta". Such sources attach importance to the subject of the article. Vit Koz (talk) 07:20, 17 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 12:19, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.