Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Herbert Sobel

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. A Train^talk 08:34, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Herbert Sobel

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Herbert Sobel was a commissioned officer with the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, in the 101st Airborne Division during World War II. Sobel was a failed commander of E Company, 2nd Battalion who was relieved of his command before it was committed to combat; he was judged to be a good trainer but a bad leader. Sobel rose to the rank of captain during WW II and his highest award was the Bronze Star; on these points, he fails WP:SOLDIER. He supposedly remained in the National Guard but that information does not appear in Ambrose. There are photos of Sobel wearing field grade insignia at this page; however there are no records of Sobel in National Guard Registers for 1951, 1953, or 1954. In civilian life, he garnered no significant coverage. Sobel was portrayed in the HBO miniseries Band of Brothers by David Schwimmer. As portrayed in the series (and earlier in the book), Sobel is the perfect villain in a narrative in which virtually all the Americans are good guys. Sobel enjoyed no notability during his life. Any notability that has occurred since is inherited from E Company. Georgia Army Vet Contribs Talk 15:20, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Georgia Army Vet Contribs Talk 15:24, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. Georgia Army Vet Contribs Talk 15:24, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - This one is certain to cause a stir but take Sobel out of E/2/506 and put him in C/1/502 (for example). We would never have heard his name.--Georgia Army Vet Contribs Talk 15:24, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete does not meet notability requirements for soldiers.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:22, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. There are relatively few known facts that have don't come from the book which was turned into a HBO miniseries, if he was not in the miniseries there is no doubt he would be deemed non-notable. The question is whether he gains notability from being portrayed in a book, which was then made into a series, and then the series was written about in another two books. This seems to add little useful verifiable information, there is still little known about him, most of the article is dangerously close to becoming little more than an assessment on his "petty and vindictive." character. Indeed the only reason he features in the series at all is as the requisite villain, for which they just picked someone who might have been a cad. Dysklyver 13:35, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep It appears to me that he is sourced by WP:RS and passes WP:GNG.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:04, 2 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep Herbert Sobel is easy to dismiss, and the main article is excessively derogatory, but he is a significant character for persons interested in the total background and early development of "E" Co. 506 PIR. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leroy Johnston Ellis, IV (talk • contribs) 20:56, 2 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - If I don't have a strong feeling, I've decided to abstain from Easy Company AfDs, but For what it is worth, there is a another Herbert Sobel who was an architect from Chicago born in 1902 or 1903 and married to Reeve Sobel. That Herbert lived past January 10, 1981, as he is mentioned still living in Reeves obituary from that date. Reeve was a volunteer in the American Red Cross Motor Corps during the war, but I don't see any mention of Herbert's service, if any. Herbert's firm, Sobel and Dielsma, was active during the war. That Herbert was a successful architect specializing in department store interiors. If the article were about him, I would !vote keep. There was also an Herbert R. Sobel who retired as a rear admiral from the Navy in 1950 who served in WWI and WWII - again I would !vote keep for that individual. I found a number of other Herbert Sobel's from this era, including a WWII officer from Poughkeepsie and another veteran from New Jersey (who I think was a son of Janet Sobel). I don't find anything on newspapers.com clearly about this Herbert except a 1944 mention of his arrival in Saint Omer. Smmurphy^(Talk) 21:28, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Response - Noted, thank you. I had erroneously added information about the architect to "our" Sobel's page; I reverted my errors (which are visible in the page history).--Georgia Army Vet Contribs Talk 16:24, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ansh 666 07:27, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep, as to notability. Kierzek (talk) 13:01, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

`dd there isn o actual notabvility. The requirements for military biography are there for a reason, to prevent this sort of trivial coverage. There might conceivably be a reason for notability for the fictional character, but not the real person. DGG ( talk ) 22:56, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@DGG: You need to buy a new keyboard! Dysklyver 00:07, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.