Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ireland (Home Nation)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. (non-admin closure) NonvocalScream (talk) 16:59, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ireland (Home Nation)

Content fork of History of Ireland (1801–1922) placed under what could be considered a controversial name by some. Anyway it's a duplicate of a pre-existing article that already seems to have a normal Wikipedia naming convention. Canterbury Tail talk 11:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I realise now I've misrepresented something. The article Ireland (Home Nation) was created as a duplicate of the other, and then the previous redirected to the new home nation one. I undid the redirection as I didn't see how it was useful, and why the article couldn't exist as is with a non-controversial name that matches normal conventions. Canterbury Tail talk 12:18, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge any useful, sourced content not already mentioned at History or Ireland (1801 - 1922); we really don't need duplicate articles; duplicates tend to end up contradicting each other. GO-PCHS-NJROTC ^(Messages) 12:04, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: This was an actual political entity, perhaps there is a case for having two article one on the history and one on the political entity that was the Home Nation of ireland; we do this for example for the UK, where there is a history of the UK from 1707 article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_Kingdom) and a history of the formation of the UK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_formation_of_the_United_Kingdom). In addition to the history of the UK as a whole, we have articles on the previous political entitys which existed.

Kingdom of Great Britain

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

The Commonwealth formed by the three Kingdoms in Cromwell's time

We also have articles on

Scotland, which is the present day home nation and a seperate one on the political entity of the Kingdom of Scotland

England and the Kingdom of England

And also one on the Kingdom of Ireland

There seems to be a pretty consistant distiction drawn in wikipedia articles on the British Isles that political entitys should have a seperate existance. I think that is why this page should exist.

Sparten (talk) 15:26, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. The argument that "'Ireland (home nation)' should exist as a separate article because it was a political entity that needs describing" is not one that I follow entirely. The Kingdom of Ireland (as a political entity) was succeeded by the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (as a political entity). The whole point about Ireland as a "Home Nation" in this period is that it WASN'T a political entity. The Parliament of Ireland was abolished in 1801, and brought under the union. Comparing to present day Scotland is not a valid comparison because Scotland does have a national assembly, and therefore is a political entity with a measure of independence in governance. So, per my vote/recommendation below, I don't think this article is warranted. Certainly the history of the situations needs capturing and description. But the relevant/existing/duplicate History of Ireland (1801–1922) already does this. Guliolopez (talk) 14:34, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Ireland. 121.96.123.226 (talk) 12:28, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 14:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete (or redirect to History of Ireland (1801–1922)). Per nom and WP:REDUNDANT. Article represents significant duplicate content with History of Ireland (1801–1922), and (per GO-PCHS-NJROTC) will end up either contradicting the existing article(s), or imparting the same same data in a slightly different way, with no additional value added. Guliolopez (talk) 14:34, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Scotland did not have a parliament till 1999! Irish legal system was seperate from that of the rest of GB, it has its own government institutions at Dublin castle, a flag, it had a Chief Secretary, it had a Lord Lieutanant and it had a Secretary of State responsible for it. We might as well not have an article on British India since it was a colony, or perhaps not have one on East Pakistan since it is now Bangladesh. Or maybe we should not have one on the Colony of Viginia as well since we have an article on Virginia!

Ireland was a home nation and a political entity and it should have a page of its own.

Sparten (talk) 18:30, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. "Scotland did not have a parliament till 1999". That's fine, but your comment was that Scotland has its own article now, and therefore Ireland should have it's own article to cover the "then" period. I was pointing out that the comparison wasn't like for like. That's all. Further, you point out that the reason for keeping "Ireland (Home nation)" is that it deals with the policial entity at the time. But it doesn't. It's a copy and paste of the History article. And as such doesn't add anything. Hence redirect. If the article in question actually dealt with the concept you describe, I would be voting on a different basis. (I may not be voting differently, but I would be voting on a different basis.) But for now, my vote remains "Delete as WP:REDUNDANT". Guliolopez (talk) 19:09, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.